C3P0 Nerf or not??

Replies

  • Awesomite
    28 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    If they start changing kits after release and people spending money on them then they should expect people to go after refunds.
  • Either way this issue needs addressed. I don't have a zeta on Finn but if the team stays as is, I'll need to zeta him to stay competitive in hstr (for haat, I think jtr with 3PO can also solo so I could still be competitive.)

    But if they nerf it, we need to know so we don't waste a zeta. And yes, I know that zfinn can be good in other areas so it's not a complete waste. And with 3PO making rebels expose, it may have even more use in tw/ga. But depending on how they change things, that may change. If they make it only resistance allys expose, then the zeta is useless to me since I don't have enough resistance to run a 2nd team. But if you can throw zfinn, 3PO, and a trio of b team rebels is for a good team, then the zeta isn't wasted.

    @CG_SBCrumb can we get some info on this issue sooner rather than later?

    1) zFinn isn't a waste of a zeta, it's an amazing zeta and is sometimes better than RJT's lead.

    2) They can fix this without nerfing zFinn. They just need to allow Traya to stack potency while she's toppled in P3, (Preferably at a slower rate than un-toppled so it doesn't impact other teams too much) that way the exposes will start to get resisted pretty quickly as theres a lot of attacks hitting her. Would stop the team from Auto-ing P3, but still allow the tank to be autoable. Initial dev response replied to a thread on the youtube video autoing the tank that it wouldn't be changed as long as it didn't impact other parts of the game, this clearly impacts other parts of the game, but the best fix would be to change the mechanics slightly in P3. They did this with the Enrage feature in the tank when Maul and zCody teams could go well past enrage with massive health pools/health regeneration and massive amounts of Protection recovery by adding the healing immunity debuff that couldn't be cleansed and then changing healing immunity to also include protection, not just health.
  • Vertigo wrote: »
    Either way this issue needs addressed. I don't have a zeta on Finn but if the team stays as is, I'll need to zeta him to stay competitive in hstr (for haat, I think jtr with 3PO can also solo so I could still be competitive.)

    But if they nerf it, we need to know so we don't waste a zeta. And yes, I know that zfinn can be good in other areas so it's not a complete waste. And with 3PO making rebels expose, it may have even more use in tw/ga. But depending on how they change things, that may change. If they make it only resistance allys expose, then the zeta is useless to me since I don't have enough resistance to run a 2nd team. But if you can throw zfinn, 3PO, and a trio of b team rebels is for a good team, then the zeta isn't wasted.

    @CG_SBCrumb can we get some info on this issue sooner rather than later?
    2) They can fix this without nerfing zFinn. They just need to allow Traya to stack potency while she's toppled in P3, (Preferably at a slower rate than un-toppled so it doesn't impact other teams too much) that way the exposes will start to get resisted pretty quickly as theres a lot of attacks hitting her.

    If they do this, what about arena? Every team in the future that doesn't somehow account for expose (ten up won't cut it) will get rekt.
  • Vertigo wrote: »
    Either way this issue needs addressed. I don't have a zeta on Finn but if the team stays as is, I'll need to zeta him to stay competitive in hstr (for haat, I think jtr with 3PO can also solo so I could still be competitive.)

    But if they nerf it, we need to know so we don't waste a zeta. And yes, I know that zfinn can be good in other areas so it's not a complete waste. And with 3PO making rebels expose, it may have even more use in tw/ga. But depending on how they change things, that may change. If they make it only resistance allys expose, then the zeta is useless to me since I don't have enough resistance to run a 2nd team. But if you can throw zfinn, 3PO, and a trio of b team rebels is for a good team, then the zeta isn't wasted.

    @CG_SBCrumb can we get some info on this issue sooner rather than later?

    1) zFinn isn't a waste of a zeta, it's an amazing zeta and is sometimes better than RJT's lead.

    2) They can fix this without nerfing zFinn. They just need to allow Traya to stack potency while she's toppled in P3, (Preferably at a slower rate than un-toppled so it doesn't impact other teams too much) that way the exposes will start to get resisted pretty quickly as theres a lot of attacks hitting her. Would stop the team from Auto-ing P3, but still allow the tank to be autoable. Initial dev response replied to a thread on the youtube video autoing the tank that it wouldn't be changed as long as it didn't impact other parts of the game, this clearly impacts other parts of the game, but the best fix would be to change the mechanics slightly in P3. They did this with the Enrage feature in the tank when Maul and zCody teams could go well past enrage with massive health pools/health regeneration and massive amounts of Protection recovery by adding the healing immunity debuff that couldn't be cleansed and then changing healing immunity to also include protection, not just health.

    I never said Finn's zeta was bad. Just that until now, I didn't habe much use for it. With only enough resistance squads geared up for one resistance team and it not being good in the hstr until now, it just didn't add enough utility to my roster. I already had jtr lead zetaed for hstr. And gearing and zetaing finn just to be able to swap out the lead is a bit of a waste. And farming and gearing another resistance team just for tw/ga is a bit of a waste when there are other teams that are good in tw/ga/hstr that would also need the gear.

    Obviously as I said that changes if 3PO makes him work with rebels in tw/ga and also good in the raid.

    But I'm more skeptical that they won't nerf it to the point where I'd need to farm more resistance for finn to be useful and will save the zeta until we get confirmation one way or the other.
  • Please do not change zFinn, it is a great team in TW and has been for a long time. Many rely on this team. Find another solution.
  • StarSon wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Either way this issue needs addressed. I don't have a zeta on Finn but if the team stays as is, I'll need to zeta him to stay competitive in hstr (for haat, I think jtr with 3PO can also solo so I could still be competitive.)

    But if they nerf it, we need to know so we don't waste a zeta. And yes, I know that zfinn can be good in other areas so it's not a complete waste. And with 3PO making rebels expose, it may have even more use in tw/ga. But depending on how they change things, that may change. If they make it only resistance allys expose, then the zeta is useless to me since I don't have enough resistance to run a 2nd team. But if you can throw zfinn, 3PO, and a trio of b team rebels is for a good team, then the zeta isn't wasted.

    @CG_SBCrumb can we get some info on this issue sooner rather than later?
    2) They can fix this without nerfing zFinn. They just need to allow Traya to stack potency while she's toppled in P3, (Preferably at a slower rate than un-toppled so it doesn't impact other teams too much) that way the exposes will start to get resisted pretty quickly as theres a lot of attacks hitting her.

    If they do this, what about arena? Every team in the future that doesn't somehow account for expose (ten up won't cut it) will get rekt.

    As for Arena, there are many teams and specific characters that gain TM when their enemies are hit/critically hit/debuffed. Some people are immune to TMR.

    The other possibility there is to just make Han's first turn not apply expose (If they can program only his first basic to stun, they can program his first basic to not apply expose, but allow the other ones to do so). That way the team isn't starting with 35% more turn meter than everyone else and they can't just roll through people from the start. This team is a variation of the zFinn teams of old that could steamroll people on offense with just Finn, Poe and RT. The exception now is that they have an almost guaranteed chance to go first to get the exposes rolling. zFinn teams could get an infinite loop of TM in before and Poe could reduce the TM of the whole team keeping the zFinn team at 100% TM and the enemy at 0% TM for an entire match. That team never held on defense, and this one won't either. I don't really see a hugeee problem with the team in arena, the one video that was viral of the team beating Revan wasn't the way it always works out. He said that most of the time GK gets 100% TM after the first time he dies (in the video his TM get reduced after he gets saved) and from there he's basically set up to lose because the enemy takes a turn and after that point the Revan team has the advantage and can pin down their toons to stop most of their tm gain.
  • @ CG anybody, I don't care what you do to finn, 3po, or traya. Just make a freaking announcement already one way or the other to hopefully get some faith back into the community that you are not nerfing toons only after the revenue has dried up. Even, "Hey we are looking into this. May be changes coming." would do.
  • Vertigo wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Either way this issue needs addressed. I don't have a zeta on Finn but if the team stays as is, I'll need to zeta him to stay competitive in hstr (for haat, I think jtr with 3PO can also solo so I could still be competitive.)

    But if they nerf it, we need to know so we don't waste a zeta. And yes, I know that zfinn can be good in other areas so it's not a complete waste. And with 3PO making rebels expose, it may have even more use in tw/ga. But depending on how they change things, that may change. If they make it only resistance allys expose, then the zeta is useless to me since I don't have enough resistance to run a 2nd team. But if you can throw zfinn, 3PO, and a trio of b team rebels is for a good team, then the zeta isn't wasted.

    @CG_SBCrumb can we get some info on this issue sooner rather than later?
    2) They can fix this without nerfing zFinn. They just need to allow Traya to stack potency while she's toppled in P3, (Preferably at a slower rate than un-toppled so it doesn't impact other teams too much) that way the exposes will start to get resisted pretty quickly as theres a lot of attacks hitting her.

    If they do this, what about arena? Every team in the future that doesn't somehow account for expose (ten up won't cut it) will get rekt.

    As for Arena, there are many teams and specific characters that gain TM when their enemies are hit/critically hit/debuffed. Some people are immune to TMR.

    TMR is irrelevant here. Han and Chewie go, apply and hit exposes, and the game is over if you aren't fighting Revan.
    The other possibility there is to just make Han's first turn not apply expose (If they can program only his first basic to stun, they can program his first basic to not apply expose, but allow the other ones to do so). That way the team isn't starting with 35% more turn meter than everyone else and they can't just roll through people from the start.

    Changing Han in this way would make no sense, since he only exposes with C3.
    This team is a variation of the zFinn teams of old that could steamroll people on offense with just Finn, Poe and RT. The exception now is that they have an almost guaranteed chance to go first to get the exposes rolling. zFinn teams could get an infinite loop of TM in before and Poe could reduce the TM of the whole team keeping the zFinn team at 100% TM and the enemy at 0% TM for an entire match. That team never held on defense, and this one won't either.

    This difference is the reason it's a problem. Unless a mirror match, you go first and the tm train starts. Unless you're fighting Revan, you win. There are no ways around this as is.
    I don't really see a hugeee problem with the team in arena, the one video that was viral of the team beating Revan wasn't the way it always works out. He said that most of the time GK gets 100% TM after the first time he dies (in the video his TM get reduced after he gets saved) and from there he's basically set up to lose because the enemy takes a turn and after that point the Revan team has the advantage and can pin down their toons to stop most of their tm gain.

    There's not a huge problem because Revan is a thing right now. Every future arena team will need to account for this.
  • A stacking tenacity mechanic while toppled would be so anoying too... One of my main P3 teams is based on termal detonators, with boba L, zam, dengar, greedo ang IG88.
    I developed this team for that single purpose, cuz thanks to IG88 payout i can negate the tenacity traya gets from death sabers (3 ig88 hits in every topple is enough)... This team is fully potency moded and landing 10-15 detonators each topple +greedosstand alone net me 4-8kk damage in p3.

    At least if something like that happens i got chewie without investing any extra **** in my BH cuz i had them alrready developeds...
  • Gannon
    1515 posts Member
    I dunno how many have tried the FinP0 combo, but it's not really an infinite loop in any situation. It's more like ns, where you get tons of turns if done correctly, but not infinitely. Eventually something will be slightly off and break the cycle. Don't think it really needs a nerf.
  • Gannon
    1515 posts Member
    Same goes for JtrP0. It's pretty neat and can easily get 10% in str p1, but by no means infinite
  • Gannon wrote: »
    Same goes for JtrP0. It's pretty neat and can easily get 10% in str p1, but by no means infinite

    the jtr with 3PO in p1 likely won't be nerfed. I got about 15% with it with one try but doubt it can do much more than that. 3PO speeds up the team and surprisingly does well at g8 and makes it where everyone dodged a lot more taking a lot of the rng out. But there were no loops so likely won't be nerfed.

    From what I've seen of the Finn lead hstr team, if done correctly, it createsba near infinite loop so it may be nerfed.

    I personally don't care either way. If it stays I'll zeta finn and use 3PO in p3 and jtr as was in p1. If they nerf it, I'll use 3PO in p1 and still be competitive.

    Either way 3PO makes hstr easier for any guild that gets him to complete than it was before he came out.
  • Gannon
    1515 posts Member
    I agree, and on paper it sounds like infinite loop, but once you try it you'll see how rng it is to maintain
  • they can fix it with change the Resistance tag as Light side text. so finn will not give tm to c3po
  • CadoaBane wrote: »
    I honestly hope they will nerf C3PO, but not for any Sith raid reasons. I faced an Ewok team in my arena today, long time no see, usually cannon fodder. But now they had a G7 C3PO in the team... and they beat the *beeeeep* out of me! I would understand if he'd only be that viable with strong gear, but not this way. Plus, why does he have no synergy with other droids? I was hoping to be able to use him for a droid team in the long run, but he'd be completely wasted there.

    Which Ewoks Team did he use with C-3PO?
  • Noxhaven wrote: »
    If they change Finns zeta lead so your resistance only gain the 35% turnmeter and 1 turn CD reduction when doing damage to an exposed target during a characters turn - would it cause trouble for any of the standard zFinn teams? (aka it wont give the turnmeter and CD reduction while assisting or counter attacking)

    I guess BB8 cant counter attack an exposed target for the CD and turnmeter gain anymore but no one use him under zFinn anyway.. I dont think it will hurt anything else then c3po's swarm attack and rHan counter attacks.

    I dont know.. i got Revan and c3po already, just dont like inf loop cheese.

    Counter attacks and assists are are all still part of a characters turn. If Yoda attacks Han Solo, and Han counter attacks, that is all happening during Yoda's turn. It is outside of Han's turn. C-3PO's mass assist is still inside his turn so all those exposes and TM gains would still be during his turn, meaning that C-3PO would then be the only one gaining TM and the cooldown reduction from his mass assist, making that not even a viable way to stop the infinite loop.
  • Legend91
    2228 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Well, it's an infinite loop so a fix IS going to happen.
    Just like several ppl alrdy pointed out, the easiest fix would be to add a certain mechanic to raid Traya, f.e. stacking tenacity when hit.
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • They're gonna change C3P0 so that rebels can only apply one expose per turn, which will prevent C3P0 from immediately gaining 100% TM. That's my prediction.
    "Don't take yourself so serious; it's a game, have fun!" • https://swgoh.gg/u/yerffcaasi/
  • They're gonna change C3P0 so that rebels can only apply one expose per turn, which will prevent C3P0 from immediately gaining 100% TM. That's my prediction.

    You can still get a team of zFinn, 3 rebels, and c-3p0... Only need 3 exposes to get to g100% TM


  • apparently it works for HSTR :-D
  • The “fix” is most likely to be a raid change that makes raid harder for every team except the shiny new one
  • Legend91 wrote: »
    Well, it's an infinite loop so a fix IS going to happen.
    Just like several ppl alrdy pointed out, the easiest fix would be to add a certain mechanic to raid Traya, f.e. stacking tenacity when hit.

    It's not quite an actual infinite loop, but close enough to the previous situations that there will probably be some change to stop it. I did it today and only got 14M. She will eventually resist enough exposes that she comes out of topple.
  • Maybe CG are just scruffy looking nerf herders and they like making nerfable toons...
  • Noxhaven wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Noxhaven wrote: »
    If they change Finns zeta lead so your resistance only gain the 35% turnmeter and 1 turn CD reduction when doing damage to an exposed target during a characters turn - would it cause trouble for any of the standard zFinn teams? (aka it wont give the turnmeter and CD reduction while assisting or counter attacking)

    I guess BB8 cant counter attack an exposed target for the CD and turnmeter gain anymore but no one use him under zFinn anyway.. I dont think it will hurt anything else then c3po's swarm attack and rHan counter attacks.

    I dont know.. i got Revan and c3po already, just dont like inf loop cheese.

    Counter attacks and assists are are all still part of a characters turn. If Yoda attacks Han Solo, and Han counter attacks, that is all happening during Yoda's turn. It is outside of Han's turn. C-3PO's mass assist is still inside his turn so all those exposes and TM gains would still be during his turn, meaning that C-3PO would then be the only one gaining TM and the cooldown reduction from his mass assist, making that not even a viable way to stop the infinite loop.

    I rephrased it to this in hope that it wont get misunderstood into oblivion.. again.

    If the resistance faction on the team dont get the turnmeter and CD reduction from Finn's leader ability while causing expose damage when assisting or counter attacking - would it cause any harm to any of the regular zFinn teams?

    Would only hurt pure resistance teams with RJT or BB8 under zFinn lead. (As well as C-3PO obviously).
    It would also hurt any mixed-faction teams under zFinn lead that have any sort of assist or counter mechanism (ie, I put Wampa into a zFinn team so he can stun the characters that are exposed with his basic, if he counter attacks an exposed character he now stuns that toon, but my team won't gain TM). It would severely hurt teams that put GK in to tank for a zFinn team as he spread retribution and calls a mass assist as well. It really hurts all sorts of inter-faction play with zFinn. Which is exactly what C-3PO is supposed to bolster: "Evasive support character that Confuses foes and strengthens mixed-faction interplay with Translation." They just boosted it a little bit too much....
  • Why not keep it simple, for raids anyway? There is a mechanic that already exists for some raid bosses - we could give toppled raid bosses a small percentage TM (say 2-3%) when they take damage, and adjust toppled speed down accordingly to give an approximate equivalent to what we had before. We would end up with a fix to any possible infinite TM loop. If done correctly, there would be no impact to any other squad comp and Finn/C3PO could still be super effective.

  • Noxhaven wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Legend91 wrote: »
    Well, it's an infinite loop so a fix IS going to happen.
    Just like several ppl alrdy pointed out, the easiest fix would be to add a certain mechanic to raid Traya, f.e. stacking tenacity when hit.

    It's not quite an actual infinite loop, but close enough to the previous situations that there will probably be some change to stop it. I did it today and only got 14M. She will eventually resist enough exposes that she comes out of topple.

    Try zFinn, c3po, bb8, rHan and Leia. Mod rHan and Leia with potency sets, cross and secondary's.

    I had Chewie instead of BB, everyone modded for potency, and went in with one saber. It's still RNG, as there is always a chance to resist. I do think something will be changed, I just wanted to point out that it's not as easy as just "use these 5 characters and hit auto."
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