Sandbagging, the new normal?

Replies

  • Kyno
    31504 posts Moderator
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.
  • Commander_Wolffe
    211 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.
  • Kyno
    31504 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

  • Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    How do you account for ships. Again left off of GA , or did we choose bad in investing in ships too.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You don't understand Kyno. When cg does something there's always a hidden fairness hidden under. We just don't see it since we don't have all the data, know the algo fully and whatnut.
  • Kyno
    31504 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Those pilots are already çounted in the çharaçter GP.
  • No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Those pilots are already çounted in the çharaçter GP.

    Are they counted twice?
    Also, zetas give tons of gp.. Some of my g8 toons with zetas are equal gp to some of my g12s. If that's counted twice for pilots like Vader, I'll never rank a pilot again
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    I agree that if ships aren't part of the GA battle process this round, it should match based solely on character gp.
    That said, it'll still be a contest of who has the most useful toons/teams in an arena setting. Stuff like Jawas will work against you usually
  • Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Those pilots are already çounted in the çharaçter GP.

    Are they counted twice?
    Also, zetas give tons of gp.. Some of my g8 toons with zetas are equal gp to some of my g12s. If that's counted twice for pilots like Vader, I'll never rank a pilot again

    If nothing çhanged, this is it:

    https://gaming-fans.com/2018/05/swgoh-understanding-ships-crew-power-in-galaxy-of-heroes/
  • Same problem for me in GA. The GP of my ships is nearly as high as my chars. For matchmaking both were count together.
    All my opponents in arena have much higher GP in chars. Feels like a big disadvantage for me. I am ****.
  • Kyno
    31504 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.
  • Complaining that people are not bloating their rosters with fluff is ridiculous. You’re entitled to build your roster however you like. I’ve always worked on relevant factions and refused to waste resources on needless stuff. This has left my roster very lean and effective for things like GA and TW. Calling it “sand bagging” is poor at best. Don’t blame others for being more efficient with their time and resources.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.
  • Kyno
    31504 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.

    It's a players choice, I'm not sure why nobody seems to get that.

    Having a busted fleet or a rocking one doesnt stop anyone from developing the toons you need to compete in TW, which sets you up for GA. It's only a handicap if you let it be.
  • Gannon
    1509 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.

    It's a players choice, I'm not sure why nobody seems to get that.

    Having a busted fleet or a rocking one doesnt stop anyone from developing the toons you need to compete in TW, which sets you up for GA. It's only a handicap if you let it be.

    I'm with you, only reason I ever did ships was the zeta fleet challenge.. One that was done I stopped working em until hunter ships. My ship arena is pretty good tho, considering..
    But yea, to each his own..
    I still use the same toons in GA as everyone else, just focus on hard counters to meta teams. I do super well for f2p 😁
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.

    It's a players choice, I'm not sure why nobody seems to get that.

    Having a busted fleet or a rocking one doesnt stop anyone from developing the toons you need to compete in TW, which sets you up for GA. It's only a handicap if you let it be.

    It does when its counted against me in matchmaking, but cant be used in the event. Or is that soo hard for people to understand.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.

    It's a players choice, I'm not sure why nobody seems to get that.

    Having a busted fleet or a rocking one doesnt stop anyone from developing the toons you need to compete in TW, which sets you up for GA. It's only a handicap if you let it be.

    That is correct, it is a player choice and having great ships is compatible with having competitive characters for GA. That being said, if you invested a lot in ships for TW or to keep up with fleet arena then you are going to compete with opponent who belong to a higher character league.

    This may be okay, I guess, if you have a deep roster, say 3.5M GP because you have enough squads with synergies to fill the board and even some spare ones just in case. This is not true for most 2M or less GP players where we end up padding with ragtag squads or sometimes don’t even clear the board.

    Facing someone with 30% more character GP means they have more viable squads and it is a huge difference at that level. Keep in mind that GA is over 75% characters.

    I tried to describe what someone with a strong fleet is facing in GA at
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/190880/grand-arena-matchmaking-algorithm-and-ships#latest
  • Kyno
    31504 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.

    It's a players choice, I'm not sure why nobody seems to get that.

    Having a busted fleet or a rocking one doesnt stop anyone from developing the toons you need to compete in TW, which sets you up for GA. It's only a handicap if you let it be.

    It does when its counted against me in matchmaking, but cant be used in the event. Or is that soo hard for people to understand.

    its all the choices we make, its not that hard to understand. every choice we have made over our lifetime in game effects us all in different ways. GA is a new way.

    nothing in this game happens over night. this game mode is just like a new raid, some people have a head start because they had the toons that ended up being needed in phases of a raid. the other players were "handicapped" because they used resources to develop different toons.

    the meta shift happens. same story.

    some people may have a head start in GA, and we can all develop to a better point, but it takes focus and planning. just like how the people who "have the advantage" got that advantage they have now.

    thats how i see it, but i know thats not how everyone else does.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Yes, i agree. But when u say someone is more developed towards TW, that includes fleet as well since fleets are used in TW. But here, in this GA mode fleets are not being used at all. I'd be fine if say fleets were used and my opponent only invested in 2 fleets while i invested in 4, since it means i actually have more options to use in defense and attack. But when ships aren't even part of the mode, I don't see why it should be included in the gp computation.
  • Commander_Wolffe
    211 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.

    It's a players choice, I'm not sure why nobody seems to get that.

    Having a busted fleet or a rocking one doesnt stop anyone from developing the toons you need to compete in TW, which sets you up for GA. It's only a handicap if you let it be.

    It does when its counted against me in matchmaking, but cant be used in the event. Or is that soo hard for people to understand.

    its all the choices we make, its not that hard to understand. every choice we have made over our lifetime in game effects us all in different ways. GA is a new way.

    nothing in this game happens over night. this game mode is just like a new raid, some people have a head start because they had the toons that ended up being needed in phases of a raid. the other players were "handicapped" because they used resources to develop different toons.

    the meta shift happens. same story.

    some people may have a head start in GA, and we can all develop to a better point, but it takes focus and planning. just like how the people who "have the advantage" got that advantage they have now.

    thats how i see it, but i know thats not how everyone else does.

    Thanks. You've talked me out of spending any (real) money on pilots or ships. I'll also stop playing the fleet table and ignore my fleet arena now that you've spoken for EA Games in that only characters matter for this game.

    We both agree that GP is a fair way to measure. Most people agree that GP spent on Jawa's isn't as good as GP spent on newly release OP characters. Nobody is arguing that. Those with wide and diverse rosters aren't going to compete with equal GP of very focused rosters.

    We're saying that ship specific GP should not be used in GA GP matchmaking when we can't use any of it (no ship nodes). It's not equal GP when GA doesn't include any ships at all in GA. If there was even 1 section for ships, then sure, throw the entire ship GP into GA match making. But when there's 0 ship nodes, ship GP is a handicap/penalty.

    As soon as there's a GA event with only ship nodes, there'll be 10x more upset players than now. But guess what?? That will never happen, because all of the real money is made selling characters.
  • Using ship GP in matchmaking for a GA board without ships is about as logical as using a player's credit score or salary.

    If someone was dumb and geared up CUP and Ugnaught, at least they can use them.
  • Commander_Wolffe
    211 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    BeralCator wrote: »
    Using ship GP in matchmaking for a GA board without ships is about as logical as using a player's credit score or salary.

    If someone was dumb and geared up CUP and Ugnaught, at least they can use them.

    Unfortunately, that concept/idea is too complicated for some people to understand.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.

    It's a players choice, I'm not sure why nobody seems to get that.

    Having a busted fleet or a rocking one doesnt stop anyone from developing the toons you need to compete in TW, which sets you up for GA. It's only a handicap if you let it be.

    It does when its counted against me in matchmaking, but cant be used in the event. Or is that soo hard for people to understand.

    its all the choices we make, its not that hard to understand. every choice we have made over our lifetime in game effects us all in different ways. GA is a new way.

    nothing in this game happens over night. this game mode is just like a new raid, some people have a head start because they had the toons that ended up being needed in phases of a raid. the other players were "handicapped" because they used resources to develop different toons.

    the meta shift happens. same story.

    some people may have a head start in GA, and we can all develop to a better point, but it takes focus and planning. just like how the people who "have the advantage" got that advantage they have now.

    thats how i see it, but i know thats not how everyone else does.

    Thanks. You've talked me out of spending any (real) money on pilots or ships. I'll also stop playing the fleet table and ignore my fleet arena now that you've spoken for EA Games in that only characters matter for this game.

    We both agree that GP is a fair way to measure. Most people agree that GP spent on Jawa's isn't as good as GP spent on newly release OP characters. Nobody is arguing that. Those with wide and diverse rosters aren't going to compete with equal GP of very focused rosters.

    We're saying that ship specific GP should not be used in GA GP matchmaking when we can't use any of it (no ship nodes). It's not equal GP when GA doesn't include any ships at all in GA. If there was even 1 section for ships, then sure, throw the entire ship GP into GA match making. But when there's 0 ship nodes, ship GP is a handicap/penalty.

    As soon as there's a GA event with only ship nodes, there'll be 10x more upset players than now. But guess what?? That will never happen, because all of the real money is made selling characters.

    You gotta take his word with a grain of salt since he's known to defend everything CG has ever done and it's all in the eye of the beholder/player choices. Obviously at some point CG will tune character only events to not include ship GP. That day his tune will change as well ;).
  • Kyno
    31504 posts Moderator
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.

    It's a players choice, I'm not sure why nobody seems to get that.

    Having a busted fleet or a rocking one doesnt stop anyone from developing the toons you need to compete in TW, which sets you up for GA. It's only a handicap if you let it be.

    It does when its counted against me in matchmaking, but cant be used in the event. Or is that soo hard for people to understand.

    its all the choices we make, its not that hard to understand. every choice we have made over our lifetime in game effects us all in different ways. GA is a new way.

    nothing in this game happens over night. this game mode is just like a new raid, some people have a head start because they had the toons that ended up being needed in phases of a raid. the other players were "handicapped" because they used resources to develop different toons.

    the meta shift happens. same story.

    some people may have a head start in GA, and we can all develop to a better point, but it takes focus and planning. just like how the people who "have the advantage" got that advantage they have now.

    thats how i see it, but i know thats not how everyone else does.

    Thanks. You've talked me out of spending any (real) money on pilots or ships. I'll also stop playing the fleet table and ignore my fleet arena now that you've spoken for EA Games in that only characters matter for this game.

    We both agree that GP is a fair way to measure. Most people agree that GP spent on Jawa's isn't as good as GP spent on newly release OP characters. Nobody is arguing that. Those with wide and diverse rosters aren't going to compete with equal GP of very focused rosters.

    We're saying that ship specific GP should not be used in GA GP matchmaking when we can't use any of it (no ship nodes). It's not equal GP when GA doesn't include any ships at all in GA. If there was even 1 section for ships, then sure, throw the entire ship GP into GA match making. But when there's 0 ship nodes, ship GP is a handicap/penalty.

    As soon as there's a GA event with only ship nodes, there'll be 10x more upset players than now. But guess what?? That will never happen, because all of the real money is made selling characters.

    You gotta take his word with a grain of salt since he's known to defend everything CG has ever done and it's all in the eye of the beholder/player choices. Obviously at some point CG will tune character only events to not include ship GP. That day his tune will change as well ;).

    Not everything.

    And I will always say exactly what I said about GA right there.

    Even when they change to some other schemes we have seen out there... just wait until they restrict the toons you can use, but still count your whole GP. I still think its fair and shows how player choices in developing roster depth effects us as we play new and interesting game modes.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.

    It's a players choice, I'm not sure why nobody seems to get that.

    Having a busted fleet or a rocking one doesnt stop anyone from developing the toons you need to compete in TW, which sets you up for GA. It's only a handicap if you let it be.

    It does when its counted against me in matchmaking, but cant be used in the event. Or is that soo hard for people to understand.

    its all the choices we make, its not that hard to understand. every choice we have made over our lifetime in game effects us all in different ways. GA is a new way.

    nothing in this game happens over night. this game mode is just like a new raid, some people have a head start because they had the toons that ended up being needed in phases of a raid. the other players were "handicapped" because they used resources to develop different toons.

    the meta shift happens. same story.

    some people may have a head start in GA, and we can all develop to a better point, but it takes focus and planning. just like how the people who "have the advantage" got that advantage they have now.

    thats how i see it, but i know thats not how everyone else does.

    Thanks. You've talked me out of spending any (real) money on pilots or ships. I'll also stop playing the fleet table and ignore my fleet arena now that you've spoken for EA Games in that only characters matter for this game.

    We both agree that GP is a fair way to measure. Most people agree that GP spent on Jawa's isn't as good as GP spent on newly release OP characters. Nobody is arguing that. Those with wide and diverse rosters aren't going to compete with equal GP of very focused rosters.

    We're saying that ship specific GP should not be used in GA GP matchmaking when we can't use any of it (no ship nodes). It's not equal GP when GA doesn't include any ships at all in GA. If there was even 1 section for ships, then sure, throw the entire ship GP into GA match making. But when there's 0 ship nodes, ship GP is a handicap/penalty.

    As soon as there's a GA event with only ship nodes, there'll be 10x more upset players than now. But guess what?? That will never happen, because all of the real money is made selling characters.

    You gotta take his word with a grain of salt since he's known to defend everything CG has ever done and it's all in the eye of the beholder/player choices. Obviously at some point CG will tune character only events to not include ship GP. That day his tune will change as well ;).

    Not everything.

    And I will always say exactly what I said about GA right there.

    Even when they change to some other schemes we have seen out there... just wait until they restrict the toons you can use, but still count your whole GP. I still think its fair and shows how player choices in developing roster depth effects us as we play new and interesting game modes.

    Then when they change the matchmaking calculation or GP calculation or when they disclude ship gp from nonship involving events, will you go on a limb and ask them to take it back to it's current FAIR state?
  • Kyno
    31504 posts Moderator
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.

    It's a players choice, I'm not sure why nobody seems to get that.

    Having a busted fleet or a rocking one doesnt stop anyone from developing the toons you need to compete in TW, which sets you up for GA. It's only a handicap if you let it be.

    It does when its counted against me in matchmaking, but cant be used in the event. Or is that soo hard for people to understand.

    its all the choices we make, its not that hard to understand. every choice we have made over our lifetime in game effects us all in different ways. GA is a new way.

    nothing in this game happens over night. this game mode is just like a new raid, some people have a head start because they had the toons that ended up being needed in phases of a raid. the other players were "handicapped" because they used resources to develop different toons.

    the meta shift happens. same story.

    some people may have a head start in GA, and we can all develop to a better point, but it takes focus and planning. just like how the people who "have the advantage" got that advantage they have now.

    thats how i see it, but i know thats not how everyone else does.

    Thanks. You've talked me out of spending any (real) money on pilots or ships. I'll also stop playing the fleet table and ignore my fleet arena now that you've spoken for EA Games in that only characters matter for this game.

    We both agree that GP is a fair way to measure. Most people agree that GP spent on Jawa's isn't as good as GP spent on newly release OP characters. Nobody is arguing that. Those with wide and diverse rosters aren't going to compete with equal GP of very focused rosters.

    We're saying that ship specific GP should not be used in GA GP matchmaking when we can't use any of it (no ship nodes). It's not equal GP when GA doesn't include any ships at all in GA. If there was even 1 section for ships, then sure, throw the entire ship GP into GA match making. But when there's 0 ship nodes, ship GP is a handicap/penalty.

    As soon as there's a GA event with only ship nodes, there'll be 10x more upset players than now. But guess what?? That will never happen, because all of the real money is made selling characters.

    You gotta take his word with a grain of salt since he's known to defend everything CG has ever done and it's all in the eye of the beholder/player choices. Obviously at some point CG will tune character only events to not include ship GP. That day his tune will change as well ;).

    Not everything.

    And I will always say exactly what I said about GA right there.

    Even when they change to some other schemes we have seen out there... just wait until they restrict the toons you can use, but still count your whole GP. I still think its fair and shows how player choices in developing roster depth effects us as we play new and interesting game modes.

    Then when they change the matchmaking calculation or GP calculation or when they disclude ship gp from nonship involving events, will you go on a limb and ask them to take it back to it's current FAIR state?

    No, I would judge the new system on it's own merits.

    As I have said several times, how I view it is different than others and if the dev team chooses to change something based on feedback, we should all look at it as a new thing and judge it as such IMHO.

    Just because one system is fair doesnt meh they couldn't change it to another fair system.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as long as gp only indicate completeness it will never be a good indicator or actual roster strength. a less complete charcter with excellent 4 dot mods could be stronger than 100% complete character with 6 dot kitten mods.

    I feel like that's the best reason why GP is a good measure for matching.

    If someone is a good theory crafter and has built effective teams that may be looked at as "incomplete", they are being rewarded in this game mode. Not for under gearing as many want to equate it to compare to paper zombie, but as an effective use of resources.

    But that is just me.

    Unless one person ignores ships and the other person does the minimal amount of work in ships but spends no actual effort. Then the person who put the minimal amount of work into ships is going to lose every.single.grand arena. Because CG will never make ships equal in banner points for GA and they will never have a ship only GA.

    Paper fleets awards players in GA unlike squad or fleet arenas because squad and fleet arenas are based on a time of entry/level date/shard join date. Using just GP is a horrible idea when you're comparing apples (character) and oranges (ships) in a apple (character) only arena.

    I have no problem when using character GP vs character GP. If one person made better choices than another then so be it. But if one person decided to play the ships and one person ignored the ships, why does GA give them a 30-40% increase on character GP vs another person's character GP in grand arena.

    Whether to play or not play ships shouldn't be a deciding factor. Letting people chose which character (or ships) to invest in when comparing GP is fine, but you can't pit one game feature against another game feature.

    It doesnt matter what position it is. If you lose against a fleet or a character squad, you are going to have a hard time getting a win, unless your post is matched by your opponent.

    We must be talking about something different, because I don't see how your response relates to what I said.

    I agree, if you don't win on your 1st attempt then you've lost the entire contest.

    My point is anyone with ships are penalized by having to fight people without ships - and there's no ship nodes. My opponent has 30% more character GP than me (more than 200k GP which is more than my entire defense squads combined) because I have 400k in ships and he has 200k in ships. And.There's.No.Ship.Nodes.

    How is being grouped with people who have a 30% advantage in GP fair? The contents of that character GP is irrelevant. It's 30% more character GP in a character only contest.

    You are making sound like ships is the only place that someone could lose because of a minimal effort towards content.

    They are going to change things like they have been for nodes to keep it "interesting".

    So there may be some differences in the "advantage" but there are some decent teams that can be built with pilots or supplemented with pilots to make an effective team. It's not like all the GP from ships only comes from ships.

    I have a decent fleet and have no problem being matched by GP when there is no ships. I know this is not a common feeling, but a developed roster can make it work. It's still only 66-70 toons being used in GA.

    Congrats for being lucky on match making so far. I hope you never have to face opponents with 30% more GP in the grand arena.

    I'm not saying ships is the ONLY place someone could lose.

    I'm saying anyone that's invested at all (even minimal compared to no investment) in ships will be at a huge disadvantage facing someone of equal combined GP when only character GP is relevant to the Grand Arena event.

    In the last GA, I faced someone who had all 3 star capital ships and barely any ships except for the free marquee ones at the marquee stars and all level 1s. That's no investment at all. Guess what, that "paper fleet" provided him about 100-150k more character GP he could place in the single squad slot in front of his paper fleet. (I'm talking about < 1m total GP level).

    Equal GP but distributed differently. That's how each player chooses to develop. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but if someone is more developed than me towards TW/GA, they deserve the win. I was a collector for a while and have a broad roster, I will be hard pressed to place 1 in GA and will be working to get second place rewards for a bit, but I really like TW and to a lesser extent GA and I look forward to redeveloping my roster towards that goal.

    Ships makes it unequal , i do not understand how nobody gets this. If you count it as gp but cant use it, its a handicap , plain and simple. Maybe you like to be handicapped when you compete , but most people prefer a even matchup.

    You couldn't be more wrong, those that focus on their fleet get extra zeta mats and crystal to help build their roster that those who ignore fleet don't get. Matchmaking based on GP is working great and if you think it's unfair it's only because you did a poor job with your resource management.
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