Grand Arena Megathread

Replies

  • Have to agree with those being fed up by the matchmaking. And I don't want to complain about "fairness", it's just plain boring the way it is right now. What I mean by that?
    I started playing in late july 2017, beside some minor orders (e. g. some crystals when there was a sale) I'm f2p. I found a nice guild and imo made ok'ish progress, sitting at 2.64 Mio. GM, hit constant Top 20 in my fleet shard, 14 heroes are at g12, 20 at g11. I start to feel like being somewhat usefull on Hoth battles, scored nr. 1 on hAAT for several times.
    And now let's take a look at the other players I get matched against:
    • always 2-3 with 2x-3x g12's and at least equal g11's = no chance.
    • always 4-5 with barely any g12's and g11's but a ton of g8-9 heroes = free win for me.

    Until now, there was exact 1 opponent that had a pretty similar rooster than me resulting in a close and decent match. All others were ultimately boring since they were totally one-sided.

    You can win the battles even if they have more g12 than you. G12 is not the only factor that determines the battle. Putting a strong defensive wall with good mods can eat through enough of their teams so that victory is possible.

    I have beaten two opponents that way that had twice or more than I do. So you could look at those matchups as a challenge.

    And the ones that have bad rosters, you probably won't face more than once if at all in a 3 round ga. Because they'll likely lose while you win ad be in a different bracket for the 2nd and 3rd fights of the ga. But when you do face them, you can always practice your b teams on offense.
    Well, ofc it is possible to win against some1 with a significant higher investment in his top squads instead of a broad roster in my GM range... if the guy with the character advantage is plain stupid, has no clue about the game and/or doesn't check my inventory. If he does, he will always be able to setup his own defense in a way that no matter what will inevitably lead to victory.
    Also, it's more likely to get 2 matches against helpless victims and one against one with an uber-roster. Usually it's the first match (free win), second is either vs. another helpless victim that somehow managed a win or against the uber, third match is the other way round. So -with that very single one exception- it's pure boredom for me.

    you'd be surprised how many of those with more g12 make mistakes. So strategy still comes into play.

    And yes a skilled player with a better roster against an unskilled one with a crap roster is a slaughter. But how do you propose they factor in player intelligence in to the matchmaking. The win loss factor does that about as well as any factor they could add.

    And I still contend that if you try and make the matchmaking more complicated, it'll lead to more problems than it fixes.
  • The matchmaking is a joke. d1ba9lbdxzi7.jpg
  • Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.

    That's only true if you are playing an **** and if you somehow only geared your absolute best 3-man teams to g12. Hopefully I'm not using all of my fleet pilots in my 3v3 GA matches, not to mention any other random guys I've geared while working on new comps or for quests or whatever. Also, with his huge character advantage he can (and did) just put most of his best squads on defense and then throw 5+ teams at any of my defenses he struggles with.

    That's also besides the point that matchmaking is not supposed to be about placing people together who can conceivably beat each other - it's about making matches fair. Does that matchup look to be particularly even to you? It's clear that GP is the only mechanism CG's using here. Thus, a guy who intentionally keeps his GP as low as possible (which CG's said they don't want to reward) gets to play in a tournament like this where everyone else has 70-100 g12's and he can bring his whale mods and 40 extra useable characters to a free win. It sucks because GA's the best mode this game has and they can't come up with a better matchmaking algorithm than matching GP.
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.

    That's only true if you are playing an **** and if you somehow only geared your absolute best 3-man teams to g12. Hopefully I'm not using all of my fleet pilots in my 3v3 GA matches, not to mention any other random guys I've geared while working on new comps or for quests or whatever. Also, with his huge character advantage he can (and did) just put most of his best squads on defense and then throw 5+ teams at any of my defenses he struggles with.

    That's also besides the point that matchmaking is not supposed to be about placing people together who can conceivably beat each other - it's about making matches fair. Does that matchup look to be particularly even to you? It's clear that GP is the only mechanism CG's using here. Thus, a guy who intentionally keeps his GP as low as possible (which CG's said they don't want to reward) gets to play in a tournament like this where everyone else has 70-100 g12's and he can bring his whale mods and 40 extra useable characters to a free win. It sucks because GA's the best mode this game has and they can't come up with a better matchmaking algorithm than matching GP.

    Out of 75 g12 toons, you're saying you can't put up a defense of some good toons? That sounds more like you didn't gear the right toons. Which is your own fault.

    I faced a couple of opponents that had 40 g12 to my 20. So same situation except I didn't have enough g12 for both offense and defense. I still won. Strategy can overcome your issues. If you spent half the time you spent whinning about unfair matchmaking strategizing about how to win, you would stand a chance. But when you declare defeat before the match begins of course you're going to lose.
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.

    That's only true if you are playing an **** and if you somehow only geared your absolute best 3-man teams to g12. Hopefully I'm not using all of my fleet pilots in my 3v3 GA matches, not to mention any other random guys I've geared while working on new comps or for quests or whatever. Also, with his huge character advantage he can (and did) just put most of his best squads on defense and then throw 5+ teams at any of my defenses he struggles with.

    That's also besides the point that matchmaking is not supposed to be about placing people together who can conceivably beat each other - it's about making matches fair. Does that matchup look to be particularly even to you? It's clear that GP is the only mechanism CG's using here. Thus, a guy who intentionally keeps his GP as low as possible (which CG's said they don't want to reward) gets to play in a tournament like this where everyone else has 70-100 g12's and he can bring his whale mods and 40 extra useable characters to a free win. It sucks because GA's the best mode this game has and they can't come up with a better matchmaking algorithm than matching GP.

    Out of 75 g12 toons, you're saying you can't put up a defense of some good toons? That sounds more like you didn't gear the right toons. Which is your own fault.

    I faced a couple of opponents that had 40 g12 to my 20. So same situation except I didn't have enough g12 for both offense and defense. I still won. Strategy can overcome your issues. If you spent half the time you spent whinning about unfair matchmaking strategizing about how to win, you would stand a chance. But when you declare defeat before the match begins of course you're going to lose.

    I got second in this tournament anyway so I'm clearly doing something right. We both had good defenses, I just don't have enough backup squads to use to beat teams that I couldn't clear with one attack while he can hit a bunch of my defenses 5 or more times.

    As fun as your ad hominem attacks are, go ahead and explain to me why this is good matchmaking. Do you think our characters are on an even playing field? Our mods? What do you think the point of a matchmaking system is?
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.

    That's only true if you are playing an **** and if you somehow only geared your absolute best 3-man teams to g12. Hopefully I'm not using all of my fleet pilots in my 3v3 GA matches, not to mention any other random guys I've geared while working on new comps or for quests or whatever. Also, with his huge character advantage he can (and did) just put most of his best squads on defense and then throw 5+ teams at any of my defenses he struggles with.

    That's also besides the point that matchmaking is not supposed to be about placing people together who can conceivably beat each other - it's about making matches fair. Does that matchup look to be particularly even to you? It's clear that GP is the only mechanism CG's using here. Thus, a guy who intentionally keeps his GP as low as possible (which CG's said they don't want to reward) gets to play in a tournament like this where everyone else has 70-100 g12's and he can bring his whale mods and 40 extra useable characters to a free win. It sucks because GA's the best mode this game has and they can't come up with a better matchmaking algorithm than matching GP.

    Looks like you have the advantage there buddy, easy win if you know what you're doing. He has a bunch more of g12s and speed mods, but it's more than he can use across the whole event.
    You have way more zetas, so it's all depending on your zeta game...
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.

    That's only true if you are playing an **** and if you somehow only geared your absolute best 3-man teams to g12. Hopefully I'm not using all of my fleet pilots in my 3v3 GA matches, not to mention any other random guys I've geared while working on new comps or for quests or whatever. Also, with his huge character advantage he can (and did) just put most of his best squads on defense and then throw 5+ teams at any of my defenses he struggles with.

    That's also besides the point that matchmaking is not supposed to be about placing people together who can conceivably beat each other - it's about making matches fair. Does that matchup look to be particularly even to you? It's clear that GP is the only mechanism CG's using here. Thus, a guy who intentionally keeps his GP as low as possible (which CG's said they don't want to reward) gets to play in a tournament like this where everyone else has 70-100 g12's and he can bring his whale mods and 40 extra useable characters to a free win. It sucks because GA's the best mode this game has and they can't come up with a better matchmaking algorithm than matching GP.

    Out of 75 g12 toons, you're saying you can't put up a defense of some good toons? That sounds more like you didn't gear the right toons. Which is your own fault.

    I faced a couple of opponents that had 40 g12 to my 20. So same situation except I didn't have enough g12 for both offense and defense. I still won. Strategy can overcome your issues. If you spent half the time you spent whinning about unfair matchmaking strategizing about how to win, you would stand a chance. But when you declare defeat before the match begins of course you're going to lose.

    I got second in this tournament anyway so I'm clearly doing something right. We both had good defenses, I just don't have enough backup squads to use to beat teams that I couldn't clear with one attack while he can hit a bunch of my defenses 5 or more times.

    As fun as your ad hominem attacks are, go ahead and explain to me why this is good matchmaking. Do you think our characters are on an even playing field? Our mods? What do you think the point of a matchmaking system is?

    If he's using 5 attacks to take out a squad then that's not winning. Ideally you want to clear with one attack each since you get more points that way.

    Without knowing the specific characters on each side, it's actually hard to say who has the better teams but you each have a deep enough roster that you could clear it without using multiple teams. If you did a full clear with one team each, it doesn't matter how many extra teams he has because he has to do a full clear with no losses to beat you.

    If you lose on offense and he doesn't, that isn't matchmaking causing the loss.
  • Liath
    5096 posts Member
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.

    That's only true if you are playing an **** and if you somehow only geared your absolute best 3-man teams to g12. Hopefully I'm not using all of my fleet pilots in my 3v3 GA matches, not to mention any other random guys I've geared while working on new comps or for quests or whatever. Also, with his huge character advantage he can (and did) just put most of his best squads on defense and then throw 5+ teams at any of my defenses he struggles with.

    That's also besides the point that matchmaking is not supposed to be about placing people together who can conceivably beat each other - it's about making matches fair. Does that matchup look to be particularly even to you? It's clear that GP is the only mechanism CG's using here. Thus, a guy who intentionally keeps his GP as low as possible (which CG's said they don't want to reward) gets to play in a tournament like this where everyone else has 70-100 g12's and he can bring his whale mods and 40 extra useable characters to a free win. It sucks because GA's the best mode this game has and they can't come up with a better matchmaking algorithm than matching GP.

    Out of 75 g12 toons, you're saying you can't put up a defense of some good toons? That sounds more like you didn't gear the right toons. Which is your own fault.

    I faced a couple of opponents that had 40 g12 to my 20. So same situation except I didn't have enough g12 for both offense and defense. I still won. Strategy can overcome your issues. If you spent half the time you spent whinning about unfair matchmaking strategizing about how to win, you would stand a chance. But when you declare defeat before the match begins of course you're going to lose.

    I got second in this tournament anyway so I'm clearly doing something right. We both had good defenses, I just don't have enough backup squads to use to beat teams that I couldn't clear with one attack while he can hit a bunch of my defenses 5 or more times.

    As fun as your ad hominem attacks are, go ahead and explain to me why this is good matchmaking. Do you think our characters are on an even playing field? Our mods? What do you think the point of a matchmaking system is?

    The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster.
  • Liath wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.

    That's only true if you are playing an **** and if you somehow only geared your absolute best 3-man teams to g12. Hopefully I'm not using all of my fleet pilots in my 3v3 GA matches, not to mention any other random guys I've geared while working on new comps or for quests or whatever. Also, with his huge character advantage he can (and did) just put most of his best squads on defense and then throw 5+ teams at any of my defenses he struggles with.

    That's also besides the point that matchmaking is not supposed to be about placing people together who can conceivably beat each other - it's about making matches fair. Does that matchup look to be particularly even to you? It's clear that GP is the only mechanism CG's using here. Thus, a guy who intentionally keeps his GP as low as possible (which CG's said they don't want to reward) gets to play in a tournament like this where everyone else has 70-100 g12's and he can bring his whale mods and 40 extra useable characters to a free win. It sucks because GA's the best mode this game has and they can't come up with a better matchmaking algorithm than matching GP.

    Out of 75 g12 toons, you're saying you can't put up a defense of some good toons? That sounds more like you didn't gear the right toons. Which is your own fault.

    I faced a couple of opponents that had 40 g12 to my 20. So same situation except I didn't have enough g12 for both offense and defense. I still won. Strategy can overcome your issues. If you spent half the time you spent whinning about unfair matchmaking strategizing about how to win, you would stand a chance. But when you declare defeat before the match begins of course you're going to lose.

    I got second in this tournament anyway so I'm clearly doing something right. We both had good defenses, I just don't have enough backup squads to use to beat teams that I couldn't clear with one attack while he can hit a bunch of my defenses 5 or more times.

    As fun as your ad hominem attacks are, go ahead and explain to me why this is good matchmaking. Do you think our characters are on an even playing field? Our mods? What do you think the point of a matchmaking system is?

    The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster.

    Exactly
  • RuFiOHHHHH
    58 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.

    That's only true if you are playing an **** and if you somehow only geared your absolute best 3-man teams to g12. Hopefully I'm not using all of my fleet pilots in my 3v3 GA matches, not to mention any other random guys I've geared while working on new comps or for quests or whatever. Also, with his huge character advantage he can (and did) just put most of his best squads on defense and then throw 5+ teams at any of my defenses he struggles with.

    That's also besides the point that matchmaking is not supposed to be about placing people together who can conceivably beat each other - it's about making matches fair. Does that matchup look to be particularly even to you? It's clear that GP is the only mechanism CG's using here. Thus, a guy who intentionally keeps his GP as low as possible (which CG's said they don't want to reward) gets to play in a tournament like this where everyone else has 70-100 g12's and he can bring his whale mods and 40 extra useable characters to a free win. It sucks because GA's the best mode this game has and they can't come up with a better matchmaking algorithm than matching GP.

    Out of 75 g12 toons, you're saying you can't put up a defense of some good toons? That sounds more like you didn't gear the right toons. Which is your own fault.

    I faced a couple of opponents that had 40 g12 to my 20. So same situation except I didn't have enough g12 for both offense and defense. I still won. Strategy can overcome your issues. If you spent half the time you spent whinning about unfair matchmaking strategizing about how to win, you would stand a chance. But when you declare defeat before the match begins of course you're going to lose.

    I got second in this tournament anyway so I'm clearly doing something right. We both had good defenses, I just don't have enough backup squads to use to beat teams that I couldn't clear with one attack while he can hit a bunch of my defenses 5 or more times.

    As fun as your ad hominem attacks are, go ahead and explain to me why this is good matchmaking. Do you think our characters are on an even playing field? Our mods? What do you think the point of a matchmaking system is?

    If he's using 5 attacks to take out a squad then that's not winning. Ideally you want to clear with one attack each since you get more points that way.

    Without knowing the specific characters on each side, it's actually hard to say who has the better teams but you each have a deep enough roster that you could clear it without using multiple teams. If you did a full clear with one team each, it doesn't matter how many extra teams he has because he has to do a full clear with no losses to beat you.

    If you lose on offense and he doesn't, that isn't matchmaking causing the loss.

    Still not addressing why this is an optimal matchmaking system. Why is this better than a system that ignores the GP of the worst 70 characters in both players roster for example? You have argued that anything outside of the best 66 don't matter anyway.

  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.

    That's only true if you are playing an **** and if you somehow only geared your absolute best 3-man teams to g12. Hopefully I'm not using all of my fleet pilots in my 3v3 GA matches, not to mention any other random guys I've geared while working on new comps or for quests or whatever. Also, with his huge character advantage he can (and did) just put most of his best squads on defense and then throw 5+ teams at any of my defenses he struggles with.

    That's also besides the point that matchmaking is not supposed to be about placing people together who can conceivably beat each other - it's about making matches fair. Does that matchup look to be particularly even to you? It's clear that GP is the only mechanism CG's using here. Thus, a guy who intentionally keeps his GP as low as possible (which CG's said they don't want to reward) gets to play in a tournament like this where everyone else has 70-100 g12's and he can bring his whale mods and 40 extra useable characters to a free win. It sucks because GA's the best mode this game has and they can't come up with a better matchmaking algorithm than matching GP.

    Out of 75 g12 toons, you're saying you can't put up a defense of some good toons? That sounds more like you didn't gear the right toons. Which is your own fault.

    I faced a couple of opponents that had 40 g12 to my 20. So same situation except I didn't have enough g12 for both offense and defense. I still won. Strategy can overcome your issues. If you spent half the time you spent whinning about unfair matchmaking strategizing about how to win, you would stand a chance. But when you declare defeat before the match begins of course you're going to lose.

    I got second in this tournament anyway so I'm clearly doing something right. We both had good defenses, I just don't have enough backup squads to use to beat teams that I couldn't clear with one attack while he can hit a bunch of my defenses 5 or more times.

    As fun as your ad hominem attacks are, go ahead and explain to me why this is good matchmaking. Do you think our characters are on an even playing field? Our mods? What do you think the point of a matchmaking system is?

    If he's using 5 attacks to take out a squad then that's not winning. Ideally you want to clear with one attack each since you get more points that way.

    Without knowing the specific characters on each side, it's actually hard to say who has the better teams but you each have a deep enough roster that you could clear it without using multiple teams. If you did a full clear with one team each, it doesn't matter how many extra teams he has because he has to do a full clear with no losses to beat you.

    If you lose on offense and he doesn't, that isn't matchmaking causing the loss.

    Still not addressing why this is an optimal matchmaking system. Why is this better than a system that ignores the GP of the worst 70 characters in both players roster for example? You have argued that anything outside of the best 66 don't matter anyway.

    I never said there weren't alternative options. But this one is simple and it works well enough. And now that it is out, it is dumb to waste resources fixing what isn't really broken when they can soend that time more effectively on qol updates or new content.

    If they had set a limit on which toons you could bring in to the battle, which that would come with the proposal of only counting your top 66 or whatever since if they don't count it's only fair if they can't be used, there would just be complaints that "I can't use x chatacter because it's not my top 66 because I geared my cup to g12 and now I have to use him" threads. So it wouldn't stop the complaints. It would just change the subject slightly.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    It's about facing ppl at your same gp level, and determining who can best use what they have against the other. It's not all about who has the most speed mods or g12s.
    Also, g11 can easily take on g12s. And depending on the toons, even as low as g8 can be useful in that. For example, I use a g11 bastilla, g11 Yoda, and a g8 gk to wipe fully maxed and zeta'd palp or cls lines in one hit with full health left.
    It's about understanding the teams, and how they counter each other.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.

    That's only true if you are playing an **** and if you somehow only geared your absolute best 3-man teams to g12. Hopefully I'm not using all of my fleet pilots in my 3v3 GA matches, not to mention any other random guys I've geared while working on new comps or for quests or whatever. Also, with his huge character advantage he can (and did) just put most of his best squads on defense and then throw 5+ teams at any of my defenses he struggles with.

    That's also besides the point that matchmaking is not supposed to be about placing people together who can conceivably beat each other - it's about making matches fair. Does that matchup look to be particularly even to you? It's clear that GP is the only mechanism CG's using here. Thus, a guy who intentionally keeps his GP as low as possible (which CG's said they don't want to reward) gets to play in a tournament like this where everyone else has 70-100 g12's and he can bring his whale mods and 40 extra useable characters to a free win. It sucks because GA's the best mode this game has and they can't come up with a better matchmaking algorithm than matching GP.

    Out of 75 g12 toons, you're saying you can't put up a defense of some good toons? That sounds more like you didn't gear the right toons. Which is your own fault.

    I faced a couple of opponents that had 40 g12 to my 20. So same situation except I didn't have enough g12 for both offense and defense. I still won. Strategy can overcome your issues. If you spent half the time you spent whinning about unfair matchmaking strategizing about how to win, you would stand a chance. But when you declare defeat before the match begins of course you're going to lose.

    I got second in this tournament anyway so I'm clearly doing something right. We both had good defenses, I just don't have enough backup squads to use to beat teams that I couldn't clear with one attack while he can hit a bunch of my defenses 5 or more times.

    As fun as your ad hominem attacks are, go ahead and explain to me why this is good matchmaking. Do you think our characters are on an even playing field? Our mods? What do you think the point of a matchmaking system is?

    If he's using 5 attacks to take out a squad then that's not winning. Ideally you want to clear with one attack each since you get more points that way.

    Without knowing the specific characters on each side, it's actually hard to say who has the better teams but you each have a deep enough roster that you could clear it without using multiple teams. If you did a full clear with one team each, it doesn't matter how many extra teams he has because he has to do a full clear with no losses to beat you.

    If you lose on offense and he doesn't, that isn't matchmaking causing the loss.

    Still not addressing why this is an optimal matchmaking system. Why is this better than a system that ignores the GP of the worst 70 characters in both players roster for example? You have argued that anything outside of the best 66 don't matter anyway.

    I never said there weren't alternative options. But this one is simple and it works well enough. And now that it is out, it is dumb to waste resources fixing what isn't really broken when they can soend that time more effectively on qol updates or new content.

    If they had set a limit on which toons you could bring in to the battle, which that would come with the proposal of only counting your top 66 or whatever since if they don't count it's only fair if they can't be used, there would just be complaints that "I can't use x chatacter because it's not my top 66 because I geared my cup to g12 and now I have to use him" threads. So it wouldn't stop the complaints. It would just change the subject slightly.

    Instead of trying to patch it up and try to think of plethora of player styles and grades...how about they just redesign/remultiply GP determinors?
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    I agree sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded. But the matchmaking isn't the solution to that. Tiered rewards that encourage you to grow your gp by putting you in a higher bracket would discourage sandbagging with much less effort than changing the whole matchmakimg system.

    But even as it is, most don't leave characters at level 1 because of ga. I leave useless characters at level 1 g1 because I want to have the credits for better mods or to level a good character later and the gear to gear a good character later. Eventually you realize that g7 level 50 characters add nothing to your ability to complete events. So you stop leveling useless toons.

    And mod stripping does not have a significant enough effect to drastically effect matchmaking. You may lower your gp by 50k by stripping mods but at 4.6 mil that's a rounding error.

  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    And if you both have old bad characters, then it's not mismatched. You can't have it both ways.
  • No_Try wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Ignoring mods, this guy has 60 more g12 than me. CG has made it clear in the past they don't want to punish people for leveling or gearing characters but if that was the case I wouldn't be stuck with this kraken. He just has tons of characters he's never starred or leveled to make sure he can exploit this terrible matchmaking.

    You do realize even at you gp, you only need 66 characters to set full defense and do a full clear. You both have that and some to spare in g12 characters. So it doesn't matter that he has more. They'll likely sit unused.

    That's only true if you are playing an **** and if you somehow only geared your absolute best 3-man teams to g12. Hopefully I'm not using all of my fleet pilots in my 3v3 GA matches, not to mention any other random guys I've geared while working on new comps or for quests or whatever. Also, with his huge character advantage he can (and did) just put most of his best squads on defense and then throw 5+ teams at any of my defenses he struggles with.

    That's also besides the point that matchmaking is not supposed to be about placing people together who can conceivably beat each other - it's about making matches fair. Does that matchup look to be particularly even to you? It's clear that GP is the only mechanism CG's using here. Thus, a guy who intentionally keeps his GP as low as possible (which CG's said they don't want to reward) gets to play in a tournament like this where everyone else has 70-100 g12's and he can bring his whale mods and 40 extra useable characters to a free win. It sucks because GA's the best mode this game has and they can't come up with a better matchmaking algorithm than matching GP.

    Out of 75 g12 toons, you're saying you can't put up a defense of some good toons? That sounds more like you didn't gear the right toons. Which is your own fault.

    I faced a couple of opponents that had 40 g12 to my 20. So same situation except I didn't have enough g12 for both offense and defense. I still won. Strategy can overcome your issues. If you spent half the time you spent whinning about unfair matchmaking strategizing about how to win, you would stand a chance. But when you declare defeat before the match begins of course you're going to lose.

    I got second in this tournament anyway so I'm clearly doing something right. We both had good defenses, I just don't have enough backup squads to use to beat teams that I couldn't clear with one attack while he can hit a bunch of my defenses 5 or more times.

    As fun as your ad hominem attacks are, go ahead and explain to me why this is good matchmaking. Do you think our characters are on an even playing field? Our mods? What do you think the point of a matchmaking system is?

    If he's using 5 attacks to take out a squad then that's not winning. Ideally you want to clear with one attack each since you get more points that way.

    Without knowing the specific characters on each side, it's actually hard to say who has the better teams but you each have a deep enough roster that you could clear it without using multiple teams. If you did a full clear with one team each, it doesn't matter how many extra teams he has because he has to do a full clear with no losses to beat you.

    If you lose on offense and he doesn't, that isn't matchmaking causing the loss.

    Still not addressing why this is an optimal matchmaking system. Why is this better than a system that ignores the GP of the worst 70 characters in both players roster for example? You have argued that anything outside of the best 66 don't matter anyway.

    I never said there weren't alternative options. But this one is simple and it works well enough. And now that it is out, it is dumb to waste resources fixing what isn't really broken when they can soend that time more effectively on qol updates or new content.

    If they had set a limit on which toons you could bring in to the battle, which that would come with the proposal of only counting your top 66 or whatever since if they don't count it's only fair if they can't be used, there would just be complaints that "I can't use x chatacter because it's not my top 66 because I geared my cup to g12 and now I have to use him" threads. So it wouldn't stop the complaints. It would just change the subject slightly.

    Instead of trying to patch it up and try to think of plethora of player styles and grades...how about they just redesign/remultiply GP determinors?

    I'm not arguing for a redesign. I just said there were alternatives they could have chosen. This is the one they chose. It works well enough. No fix needed.
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    And if you both have old bad characters, then it's not mismatched. You can't have it both ways.

    Not sure why you repeatedly accuse me of making absurd arguments. This guy is a kraken, I don't know if he has any old bad characters. Even so, a fight where one player has 60 more g12 than another is clearly not an even match. No matter how many times you say it shouldn't matter that doesn't change the fact that the current matchmaking system is obviously exploitable.
  • RuFiOHHHHH
    58 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    I agree sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded. But the matchmaking isn't the solution to that. Tiered rewards that encourage you to grow your gp by putting you in a higher bracket would discourage sandbagging with much less effort than changing the whole matchmakimg system.

    But even as it is, most don't leave characters at level 1 because of ga. I leave useless characters at level 1 g1 because I want to have the credits for better mods or to level a good character later and the gear to gear a good character later. Eventually you realize that g7 level 50 characters add nothing to your ability to complete events. So you stop leveling useless toons.

    And mod stripping does not have a significant enough effect to drastically effect matchmaking. You may lower your gp by 50k by stripping mods but at 4.6 mil that's a rounding error.

    People who started when I did mostly have infinite credits, training droids and ability mats other than omegas and zetas. This is a strategy that I'm sure his guild uses in TW as well as GA to guarantee the best matchups for them. I'd bet his guild clears TB with full stars and that he doesn't miss out on any big deal characters. He's not saving resources, to have 137 g12 characters he must spend an absolute truckload of money on the game. Any weakness in his roster is intentional.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    And if you both have old bad characters, then it's not mismatched. You can't have it both ways.

    Not sure why you repeatedly accuse me of making absurd arguments. This guy is a kraken, I don't know if he has any old bad characters. Even so, a fight where one player has 60 more g12 than another is clearly not an even match. No matter how many times you say it shouldn't matter that doesn't change the fact that the current matchmaking system is obviously exploitable.

    It's not really exploitable at all, considering the time it takes to gear up that much stuff.. Plus you can only really useso many, in your case 66 I think, and still expect to win.
    And GA being relatively new and all.
    Also Did you see my last comment?
    I've been waiting for someone to pick on my g8 gk.. 👀
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    And if you both have old bad characters, then it's not mismatched. You can't have it both ways.

    Not sure why you repeatedly accuse me of making absurd arguments. This guy is a kraken, I don't know if he has any old bad characters. Even so, a fight where one player has 60 more g12 than another is clearly not an even match. No matter how many times you say it shouldn't matter that doesn't change the fact that the current matchmaking system is obviously exploitable.

    You can view his roster so you can see if he has good characters or not. I cannot. But you don't seem to understand that you can probably beat this guy with focus eben with his increased g12 because there is no way he can effectively use them all.
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    And if you both have old bad characters, then it's not mismatched. You can't have it both ways.

    Not sure why you repeatedly accuse me of making absurd arguments. This guy is a kraken, I don't know if he has any old bad characters. Even so, a fight where one player has 60 more g12 than another is clearly not an even match. No matter how many times you say it shouldn't matter that doesn't change the fact that the current matchmaking system is obviously exploitable.

    You can view his roster so you can see if he has good characters or not. I cannot. But you don't seem to understand that you can probably beat this guy with focus eben with his increased g12 because there is no way he can effectively use them all.

    I haven't addressed the "you can beat him" point because it's irrelevant. Almost anyone can beat anyone theoretically, assuming the disadvantaged player plays perfectly and the one with the advantage makes significant mistakes. They could just match people up that are the same level and you could still argue that it's possible. The point is that it's not a balanced match which is the ENTIRE point of a good matchmaking system. Arguing about the exact specifics of my intelligence, his roster, or whatever other nonsense you want to bring up doesn't apply. A good matchmaking system would lead to matches where the opponents are relatively comparable. I have a few more zetas, he has a few hundred more speed mods. Even pretending those are equivalent, he has 60 more good characters. That's bad matchmaking regardless of whether you think I should be able to one-shot the 11 best meta defenses in the game and beat him.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    And if you both have old bad characters, then it's not mismatched. You can't have it both ways.

    Not sure why you repeatedly accuse me of making absurd arguments. This guy is a kraken, I don't know if he has any old bad characters. Even so, a fight where one player has 60 more g12 than another is clearly not an even match. No matter how many times you say it shouldn't matter that doesn't change the fact that the current matchmaking system is obviously exploitable.

    You can view his roster so you can see if he has good characters or not. I cannot. But you don't seem to understand that you can probably beat this guy with focus eben with his increased g12 because there is no way he can effectively use them all.

    I haven't addressed the "you can beat him" point because it's irrelevant. Almost anyone can beat anyone theoretically, assuming the disadvantaged player plays perfectly and the one with the advantage makes significant mistakes. They could just match people up that are the same level and you could still argue that it's possible. The point is that it's not a balanced match which is the ENTIRE point of a good matchmaking system. Arguing about the exact specifics of my intelligence, his roster, or whatever other nonsense you want to bring up doesn't apply. A good matchmaking system would lead to matches where the opponents are relatively comparable. I have a few more zetas, he has a few hundred more speed mods. Even pretending those are equivalent, he has 60 more good characters. That's bad matchmaking regardless of whether you think I should be able to one-shot the 11 best meta defenses in the game and beat him.

    You have the same gp. How you got it is irrelevant. You're equally invested. 👹
    Fair enough
  • RuFiOHHHHH
    58 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Gannon wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    And if you both have old bad characters, then it's not mismatched. You can't have it both ways.

    Not sure why you repeatedly accuse me of making absurd arguments. This guy is a kraken, I don't know if he has any old bad characters. Even so, a fight where one player has 60 more g12 than another is clearly not an even match. No matter how many times you say it shouldn't matter that doesn't change the fact that the current matchmaking system is obviously exploitable.

    You can view his roster so you can see if he has good characters or not. I cannot. But you don't seem to understand that you can probably beat this guy with focus eben with his increased g12 because there is no way he can effectively use them all.

    I haven't addressed the "you can beat him" point because it's irrelevant. Almost anyone can beat anyone theoretically, assuming the disadvantaged player plays perfectly and the one with the advantage makes significant mistakes. They could just match people up that are the same level and you could still argue that it's possible. The point is that it's not a balanced match which is the ENTIRE point of a good matchmaking system. Arguing about the exact specifics of my intelligence, his roster, or whatever other nonsense you want to bring up doesn't apply. A good matchmaking system would lead to matches where the opponents are relatively comparable. I have a few more zetas, he has a few hundred more speed mods. Even pretending those are equivalent, he has 60 more good characters. That's bad matchmaking regardless of whether you think I should be able to one-shot the 11 best meta defenses in the game and beat him.

    You have the same gp. How you got it is irrelevant. You're equally invested. 👹
    Fair enough

    This would make sense if GP was calculated in a balanced way. GP growth values are arbitrary. Two g8 characters have a higher GP than a max g12+ gear/zeta character. That's not equal investment. It takes nothing to get a character to g8.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    And if you both have old bad characters, then it's not mismatched. You can't have it both ways.

    Not sure why you repeatedly accuse me of making absurd arguments. This guy is a kraken, I don't know if he has any old bad characters. Even so, a fight where one player has 60 more g12 than another is clearly not an even match. No matter how many times you say it shouldn't matter that doesn't change the fact that the current matchmaking system is obviously exploitable.

    You can view his roster so you can see if he has good characters or not. I cannot. But you don't seem to understand that you can probably beat this guy with focus eben with his increased g12 because there is no way he can effectively use them all.

    I haven't addressed the "you can beat him" point because it's irrelevant. Almost anyone can beat anyone theoretically, assuming the disadvantaged player plays perfectly and the one with the advantage makes significant mistakes. They could just match people up that are the same level and you could still argue that it's possible. The point is that it's not a balanced match which is the ENTIRE point of a good matchmaking system. Arguing about the exact specifics of my intelligence, his roster, or whatever other nonsense you want to bring up doesn't apply. A good matchmaking system would lead to matches where the opponents are relatively comparable. I have a few more zetas, he has a few hundred more speed mods. Even pretending those are equivalent, he has 60 more good characters. That's bad matchmaking regardless of whether you think I should be able to one-shot the 11 best meta defenses in the game and beat him.

    You have the same gp. How you got it is irrelevant. You're equally invested. 👹
    Fair enough

    This would make sense if GP was calculated in a balanced way. Two g8 characters have a higher GP than a max g12+ gear/zeta character. That's not equal investment. It takes nothing to get a character to g8.

    I routinely kill g12 fully zeta'd teams with my g8 Kenobi on the line. They're not matching you with a carbon copy of your own roster, just equally invested players.
    Two g8s can kill one g12 if their kits are a decent counter.
  • RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    RuFiOHHHHH wrote: »
    "The point is to see how you stack up against people who are roughly in your league as far as total resources spent in the game (I.e. GP), not to only face people with perfect clones of your own roster."

    CG's stated in the past that they don't want people to need to be penalized for having stuff leveled. For those of us here since the beginning, we're stuck with resources spent on outdated characters. As soon as CG allows people to remove gear/stars/levels from characters then it'd be about who has similar resources. As far as GP goes, it's not even remotely balanced as far as total resources spent in game. For example, a maxed out, zeta'd Ezra is 21168. My g8 CUP is 12800. 2 g8 old characters that were leveled for TB are not more resource intensive or valuable than one maxed meta character.

    As game designers they should be building systems that support the behavior they want in their player base. In the whole paper zombie fiasco they stated that it never their goal to punish people for leveling characters. This matchmaking system obviously does so.

    So you're saying you have only old bad characters at g12 out of 75 and your opponent that has 134 g12 has no old bad characters at g12. I call ****.

    You aren't being punished for leveling characters. In fact, this game mode rewards thise that go ahead and complete this process and get them to g12 rather than stopping at g8 to chase the next new shiny coming out.

    That's not what I'm saying at all and you know it. This game mode rewards people with lots of characters left at level 1, 2* after unlocking who take all their mods off of the bottom characters on their roster. Sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded.

    I agree sandbagging shouldn't be rewarded. But the matchmaking isn't the solution to that. Tiered rewards that encourage you to grow your gp by putting you in a higher bracket would discourage sandbagging with much less effort than changing the whole matchmakimg system.

    But even as it is, most don't leave characters at level 1 because of ga. I leave useless characters at level 1 g1 because I want to have the credits for better mods or to level a good character later and the gear to gear a good character later. Eventually you realize that g7 level 50 characters add nothing to your ability to complete events. So you stop leveling useless toons.

    And mod stripping does not have a significant enough effect to drastically effect matchmaking. You may lower your gp by 50k by stripping mods but at 4.6 mil that's a rounding error.

    People who started when I did mostly have infinite credits, training droids and ability mats other than omegas and zetas. This is a strategy that I'm sure his guild uses in TW as well as GA to guarantee the best matchups for them. I'd bet his guild clears TB with full stars and that he doesn't miss out on any big deal characters. He's not saving resources, to have 137 g12 characters he must spend an absolute truckload of money on the game. Any weakness in his roster is intentional.

    not all late game players have unlimited credits. Training droids yes. But credits no. If you frequently buy mods to try and get a lot of good mods, it burns through a lot of credits pretty quick. I keep a stash of about 40 mil but that is hardly unlimited when mods go for 5mil + each and leveling them is a crapshoot. There's also the likelihood of an eventual level cap increase so I want a decent stash to level up to level 90 when that happens. It'll probably cost a couple million per toon to do so at least. So my 40 mil may get me 20 toons to level 90. I can see those wanting 100 mil or more saved. But I balance that with trying to get good mods.

    And you're not in a guild that can clear tb without further inflating your roster? At 4.6 mil gp, if you are in a guild that is made up of similar level players, that should be a walk in the park.

    And some spend money to win. Fact of life. I personally don't but can probably beat most whales at similar gp because I focus and have to make do with what I habe and the result of doing that is you get more skilled when you can't buy your way through everything.
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