I have a zFinn and he seems worthless. Dies so fast. I think I must be using him wrong.
Definitely using him wrong.
On occasion I just try to use him in a resistance team. zFinn, Rey, R2, BB8 and Poe. My Poe also sucks, so that team gets blown out of the water. I'll have JTR on the 24th though so i'm not worried.
Yep there's your problem. Rey, R2, BB8....none of them expose, so you're relying on just two toons to expose. Goes bad fast.
Take out two of your choice and replace with RT and RP. Mod all for high potency and Poe for speed as well. Poe goes first, mass expose, and then watch the TM train go.
@CaptainRex I started a thread a while back pleading with the devs to not do anything with Finn, just change Traya! It got a lot of replies and reviews, yet apparently the devs still did not care to listen to the community and see what everyone obviously wants.
Community: “change her!” *shoves poster of Traya into their face* “not Finn, he’s fine as is! Easier to fix Traya than him. The community will give you less backlash if you listen to us.”
CG: “let’s change Finn.” A minute later... “oh, maybe we shouldn’t. After a wonderful holiday we devs had talking about making TW more fun and playful, we just realized that it’d be better not to change Finn.”
I’m betting most of you complaining didn’t bother to gear your ewoks and earn C3po. I don’t understand why some of you are so mad about the HAAT solo and the p3 solo. Tank is so **** old and drops garbage loot; who cares if 15-20 people solo the **** thing. P3 sith has been the worst phase since the inception of hstr, I’m so tired of backing out because I get the wrong combination of swords, pao gets killed/isolated, or han gets isolated. People claim that takes skill and gear, but sounds more like random **** luck to me...
@Jwalker1900 can you explain the wrong sword combo to me?
If u dont have chewie- retribution or foresight on all 3 sabers.
And then right before the swords attack a standalone han, foresight and retribution. So while in standalone, foresight saber clears tenacity up then retribution saber inflicts daze and screws up ur run.
If you have chewie, then it’s 3 retribution sabers at the start, then foresight sabers right to dispel a buffed standalone han.
In all cases, there’s always the possibility of traya isolating han and there goes your run. If you have chewie, traya can also isolate chewie so once han’s standalone is over, chewie wont be assisting at all.
Annnnnd traya can dodge deathmark.
The rng of p3 certainly is there...but thats because the way stand alone works. If it would simply give all stats from every character the whole system would work smooth. A tank could have been there to eat the isolate and voila, but the design decision another.
Against dodge works a precision arrow well. Its also good to use on talia for p4 (too greedy to zeta talzin for a broken p3 run). DT just needs 179 speed which easily to obtain with a precision arrow ;-)
To have way less rng you could use tenacity sets for dt, pao and han (well...minus 20% dmg) to get no ability block.
The zombie rework killed the ns team in p3 long ago.
I’m betting most of you complaining didn’t bother to gear your ewoks and earn C3po. I don’t understand why some of you are so mad about the HAAT solo and the p3 solo. Tank is so **** old and drops garbage loot; who cares if 15-20 people solo the **** thing. P3 sith has been the worst phase since the inception of hstr, I’m so tired of backing out because I get the wrong combination of swords, pao gets killed/isolated, or han gets isolated. People claim that takes skill and gear, but sounds more like random **** luck to me...
@Jwalker1900 can you explain the wrong sword combo to me?
If u dont have chewie- retribution or foresight on all 3 sabers.
And then right before the swords attack a standalone han, foresight and retribution. So while in standalone, foresight saber clears tenacity up then retribution saber inflicts daze and screws up ur run.
If you have chewie, then it’s 3 retribution sabers at the start, then foresight sabers right to dispel a buffed standalone han.
In all cases, there’s always the possibility of traya isolating han and there goes your run. If you have chewie, traya can also isolate chewie so once han’s standalone is over, chewie wont be assisting at all.
Annnnnd traya can dodge deathmark.
The rng of p3 certainly is there...but thats because the way stand alone works. If it would simply give all stats from every character the whole system would work smooth. A tank could have been there to eat the isolate and voila, but the design decision another.
Against dodge works a precision arrow well. Its also good to use on talia for p4 (too greedy to zeta talzin for a broken p3 run). DT just needs 179 speed which easily to obtain with a precision arrow ;-)
To have way less rng you could use tenacity sets for dt, pao and han (well...minus 20% dmg) to get no ability block.
The zombie rework killed the ns team in p3 long ago.
@CaptainRex I started a thread a while back pleading with the devs to not do anything with Finn, just change Traya! It got a lot of replies and reviews, yet apparently the devs still did not care to listen to the community and see what everyone obviously wants.
Community: “change her!” *shoves poster of Traya into their face* “not Finn, he’s fine as is! Easier to fix Traya than him. The community will give you less backlash if you listen to us.”
CG: “let’s change Finn.” A minute later... “oh, maybe we shouldn’t. After a wonderful holiday we devs had talking about making TW more fun and playful, we just realized that it’d be better not to change Finn.”
Just because the mob cries out, doesn't mean the mob is right. Changing traya would be the easy fix, but it would be the wrong choice. As others have pointed out, the infinite loop problem can exist outside of just the HSR. Additionally, the infinite loop problem in p3 HSR is an issue with the Finn team and the topple mechanic. So a "fix" on just traya kicks the can down the road, and the next raid either can't have topple or has to have its own fix to deal with this situation, or requires them finally fixing the loop issue. The best solution is to fix the loop issue, as opposed to putting a band-aid on the raid.
Don't listen to that CG, the best thing you ever did was give me the ability to auto the HAAT raid. It's fine.
This. So much this.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
@CaptainRex I started a thread a while back pleading with the devs to not do anything with Finn, just change Traya! It got a lot of replies and reviews, yet apparently the devs still did not care to listen to the community and see what everyone obviously wants.
Community: “change her!” *shoves poster of Traya into their face* “not Finn, he’s fine as is! Easier to fix Traya than him. The community will give you less backlash if you listen to us.”
CG: “let’s change Finn.” A minute later... “oh, maybe we shouldn’t. After a wonderful holiday we devs had talking about making TW more fun and playful, we just realized that it’d be better not to change Finn.”
Just because the mob cries out, doesn't mean the mob is right. Changing traya would be the easy fix, but it would be the wrong choice. As others have pointed out, the infinite loop problem can exist outside of just the HSR. Additionally, the infinite loop problem in p3 HSR is an issue with the Finn team and the topple mechanic. So a "fix" on just traya kicks the can down the road, and the next raid either can't have topple or has to have its own fix to deal with this situation, or requires them finally fixing the loop issue. The best solution is to fix the loop issue, as opposed to putting a band-aid on the raid.
This "infinite loop", which isn't really infinite at all (yes, I've solo'd P3 twice, but I've also failed 3 times so far (same mods as the solo's, and multiple people in my guild have had the same experience) can be solved by
A. Increased tenacity or
B. Immune/reduced to expose, which affects zFinn and literally no one else.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
This "infinite loop", which isn't really infinite at all (yes, I've solo'd P3 twice, but I've also failed 3 times so far (same mods as the solo's, and multiple people in my guild have had the same experience) can be solved by
A. Increased tenacity or
B. Immune/reduced to expose, which affects zFinn and literally no one else.
That doesn't fix the loop. That just stops it from working against P3 Sith. Still nukes almost anything on offense, and puts CG in a very awkward design position with Resistance going forward.
@CaptainRex I started a thread a while back pleading with the devs to not do anything with Finn, just change Traya! It got a lot of replies and reviews, yet apparently the devs still did not care to listen to the community and see what everyone obviously wants.
Community: “change her!” *shoves poster of Traya into their face* “not Finn, he’s fine as is! Easier to fix Traya than him. The community will give you less backlash if you listen to us.”
CG: “let’s change Finn.” A minute later... “oh, maybe we shouldn’t. After a wonderful holiday we devs had talking about making TW more fun and playful, we just realized that it’d be better not to change Finn.”
Just because the mob cries out, doesn't mean the mob is right. Changing traya would be the easy fix, but it would be the wrong choice. As others have pointed out, the infinite loop problem can exist outside of just the HSR. Additionally, the infinite loop problem in p3 HSR is an issue with the Finn team and the topple mechanic. So a "fix" on just traya kicks the can down the road, and the next raid either can't have topple or has to have its own fix to deal with this situation, or requires them finally fixing the loop issue. The best solution is to fix the loop issue, as opposed to putting a band-aid on the raid.
Yes, but changing her tenacity or her turn meter when she is toppled would be an easy fix. Otherwise it’d change Finn soloing the HAAT, and him against every meta team, especially revan. He doesn’t hold on defense well still against revan, and he’s not in the top three meta teams right now, so I think we’re safe with Finn as is. I have a feeling more people would be in an uproar about Finn being changed than raid boss Traya.
B. Immune/reduced to expose, which affects zFinn and literally no one else.
Phoenix? My Hera and ZSabine get quite a few exposes on her. Loading her up with 4 exposes and then hitting her with ZEzra hits for a pretty sum.
Also, on the subject of Tenacity: I use speed down to keep her staggered longer and get more hits in (cls, vader, dengar).
None of the above is going to murder my score, but I don't want the reduction just to fix a loop caused by 2 characters either.
If her tenacity stacked during topples whenever exposed it would prevent Finn solo and not affect other teams. You could still drop exposes with hera and sabine, you could still drop speed down with other toons. But a small stacking tenacity (1%) whenever exposed would fix all of it. Finn would still be able to drop 50-70 exposes before tenacity got so high that it would stop working. Expose does around 7500 damage iirc. So about 400k damage from expose and then damage from attacks. I imagine the team would do about equal to a chex mix team.
Ideally I'd rather they did 20% chance to gain 1% tenacity (stacking) whenever exposed. It would allow the team to do maybe 10-15% of the phase.
Yes, but changing her tenacity or her turn meter when she is toppled would be an easy fix. Otherwise it’d change Finn soloing the HAAT, and him against every meta team, especially revan. He doesn’t hold on defense well still against revan, and he’s not in the top three meta teams right now, so I think we’re safe with Finn as is. I have a feeling more people would be in an uproar about Finn being changed than raid boss Traya.
Easy fix /= appropriate fix. I don't care about HAAT -- let it be auto-able (I'd be quite happy). I don't care about p3 HSR -- let it be auto-able (again, I'd be quite happy). I care about them being backed into a future design corner, where they either have to continue with this stacking tenacity garbage, which was one of the most unfun things about the sith raid, or eliminating the topple mechanic, or giving every raid boss going forward tm on hits when toppled, which could hurt a LOT of different teams (like troopers, bh, clones, Revan-led jedi, etc..., which utilize a lot of bonus attacks/assists). To deal with this situation, CG either has to build in an anti-inFinnite mechanic to each and every single future piece of content where it could pop up, to the potential detriment of other teams, or change the inFinnite mechanic somehow. Good design would be fixing inFinnite once.
As far as "uproar," I'm sure there would be even less uproar if CG just removed p3 from the raid entirely, but as I said earlier, just because the mob wants it, doesn't mean it's the right solution.
For those asking what rock can be used to beat the Zeta Fin Scissors. On offense I beat them every time with CLS Lead.
Han shoots first (or second half the time they have Han also) at Chewbacca
My CLS goes next, and with my Chewbacca assisting their Chewbacca dies.
My R2 puts up a smoke screen, targeting CLS so if they ever get an attack its against CLS who has foresight.
My C3PO calls Han to assist, R2 and CLS also assists, kills their Han or leaves him stunned.
My Han shoots and stuns their Han if he is still alive + my Chewbacca assist to take their Han down.
Then my Han goes again, Kills there RT or CLS or what ever with his basic + Chewbacca Assisting.
My Chewbacca goes next, Kill Fin Last.
Rarely they aren't all dead and my CLS and R2 gets a second turns before they do much.
Honestly much easier to beat than any other current meta team. You may need very good speed mods to pull this off but compared to the 320+ speed Revan & GMY teams this seems like a cake walk.
I just don’t understand why they care if a team can solo 1/4th of a raid at this point. The team and mods necessary to do this are almost exclusive to anyone who has had it on farm for so many months at this point so who the hell should care?
Raids at this point once on farm status for this length of time are as much fun as banning a ton of characters for TW. Focus your attention on anything else, it’s phase 3 I think we can all just move on.
This.
Just leave it CG, move on and ask the community to test before release possible meta-defining teams.
Don’t tinker and break something else. Plus you’ll have a lot asking for refunds because they spent on C3P0 even if it is zFinn that’s the issue.
I just don’t understand why they care if a team can solo 1/4th of a raid at this point. The team and mods necessary to do this are almost exclusive to anyone who has had it on farm for so many months at this point so who the hell should care?
Raids at this point once on farm status for this length of time are as much fun as banning a ton of characters for TW. Focus your attention on anything else, it’s phase 3 I think we can all just move on.
This.
Just leave it CG, move on and ask the community to test before release possible meta-defining teams.
Don’t tinker and break something else. Plus you’ll have a lot asking for refunds because they spent on C3P0 even if it is zFinn that’s the issue.
This would be the dream scenario. I actually enjoy the Sith Raid now, because I know I only get one attempt in P1 (maybe 2 or 3 if I start right away), one attempt in P2, solo P3, all in about an hour. P4 can drop pretty soon, but by then I know whether I'll get Top 3 or Top 10, then decide if it's worth it.
And an auto-able HAAT is such a blessing.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
I have a zFinn and he seems worthless. Dies so fast. I think I must be using him wrong.
Definitely using him wrong.
On occasion I just try to use him in a resistance team. zFinn, Rey, R2, BB8 and Poe. My Poe also sucks, so that team gets blown out of the water. I'll have JTR on the 24th though so i'm not worried.
Yep there's your problem. Rey, R2, BB8....none of them expose, so you're relying on just two toons to expose. Goes bad fast.
Take out two of your choice and replace with RT and RP. Mod all for high potency and Poe for speed as well. Poe goes first, mass expose, and then watch the TM train go.
bb8 exposes quite nicely, not sure what r2 and rey have to do on that team tho lol
It's just a bunch of Revan users aggravated that someone else is able to beat them. Revan gets a huge dollop of TM based on team comp (no matter the mods). If that is not a reason to nerf him, then think of ZFinn + 3PO+ RHan + Chewie as the same. The Resistance gets a 35% to 70% TM bump (based on potency & opposing tenacity) only if they have 2 Legendary and 1 Raid Character (properly moded). And as many have commented, it's not that difficult to beat when it's defending. So much for the arena whiners.
On P3 of the Sith raid, Just give Treya stacking tenacity on expose (won't trip up JTR) or TM on expose (will trip up JTR in P3- but who's not using JTR in P1?). So this too is a tempest in a teapot. Just stop the nerfing of toons that people have farmed for, levelled and geared. It's a breach of promise, CG. And that's actionable.
How long after HPIT or HAAT release did the first phase solo happen that was allowed to continue? How long until the whole thing was beatable by 1 player? It should be part of the life cycle of a raid that eventually it's on easy farm. I know HAAT took at least 18 months before full solo was available
It's pretty insane how they released Traya and then Revan and saw nothing wrong with them and then released C3PO and believe that he is too OP in conjunction with zFinn. Sith Trio and Revan are fine but yeah C3PO is a problem. Give me a break.
It's broken, no team is meant to get infinite turn meter. All the people going don't nerf it, are people who want it to be the meta forever apparently.
It's pretty insane how they released Traya and then Revan and saw nothing wrong with them and then released C3PO and believe that he is too OP in conjunction with zFinn. Sith Trio and Revan are fine but yeah C3PO is a problem. Give me a break.
I'm actually enjoying the variety on my arena shard. Used to be Top 50 were 100% Traya. Then it was Revan, and Traya for those who didn't get him. Now it's CLS, Finn, Revan, and Traya (though zFinn disappears immediately due to being terrible on defense.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
Replies
Yep there's your problem. Rey, R2, BB8....none of them expose, so you're relying on just two toons to expose. Goes bad fast.
Take out two of your choice and replace with RT and RP. Mod all for high potency and Poe for speed as well. Poe goes first, mass expose, and then watch the TM train go.
Community: “change her!” *shoves poster of Traya into their face* “not Finn, he’s fine as is! Easier to fix Traya than him. The community will give you less backlash if you listen to us.”
CG: “let’s change Finn.” A minute later... “oh, maybe we shouldn’t. After a wonderful holiday we devs had talking about making TW more fun and playful, we just realized that it’d be better not to change Finn.”
The zombie rework killed the ns team in p3 long ago.
Lol so untrue. I run it every hSTR.
Just because the mob cries out, doesn't mean the mob is right. Changing traya would be the easy fix, but it would be the wrong choice. As others have pointed out, the infinite loop problem can exist outside of just the HSR. Additionally, the infinite loop problem in p3 HSR is an issue with the Finn team and the topple mechanic. So a "fix" on just traya kicks the can down the road, and the next raid either can't have topple or has to have its own fix to deal with this situation, or requires them finally fixing the loop issue. The best solution is to fix the loop issue, as opposed to putting a band-aid on the raid.
This. So much this.
This "infinite loop", which isn't really infinite at all (yes, I've solo'd P3 twice, but I've also failed 3 times so far (same mods as the solo's, and multiple people in my guild have had the same experience) can be solved by
A. Increased tenacity or
B. Immune/reduced to expose, which affects zFinn and literally no one else.
Phoenix? My Hera and ZSabine get quite a few exposes on her. Loading her up with 4 exposes and then hitting her with ZEzra hits for a pretty sum.
Also, on the subject of Tenacity: I use speed down to keep her staggered longer and get more hits in (cls, vader, dengar).
None of the above is going to murder my score, but I don't want the reduction just to fix a loop caused by 2 characters either.
He’s biased because he never put a zeta on Finn.
Yes, but changing her tenacity or her turn meter when she is toppled would be an easy fix. Otherwise it’d change Finn soloing the HAAT, and him against every meta team, especially revan. He doesn’t hold on defense well still against revan, and he’s not in the top three meta teams right now, so I think we’re safe with Finn as is. I have a feeling more people would be in an uproar about Finn being changed than raid boss Traya.
If her tenacity stacked during topples whenever exposed it would prevent Finn solo and not affect other teams. You could still drop exposes with hera and sabine, you could still drop speed down with other toons. But a small stacking tenacity (1%) whenever exposed would fix all of it. Finn would still be able to drop 50-70 exposes before tenacity got so high that it would stop working. Expose does around 7500 damage iirc. So about 400k damage from expose and then damage from attacks. I imagine the team would do about equal to a chex mix team.
Ideally I'd rather they did 20% chance to gain 1% tenacity (stacking) whenever exposed. It would allow the team to do maybe 10-15% of the phase.
I would love for the loop to be fixed, but the fix not apply to HAAT -- I'd drop that zeta in a heartbeat to auto-solo tank.
Easy fix /= appropriate fix. I don't care about HAAT -- let it be auto-able (I'd be quite happy). I don't care about p3 HSR -- let it be auto-able (again, I'd be quite happy). I care about them being backed into a future design corner, where they either have to continue with this stacking tenacity garbage, which was one of the most unfun things about the sith raid, or eliminating the topple mechanic, or giving every raid boss going forward tm on hits when toppled, which could hurt a LOT of different teams (like troopers, bh, clones, Revan-led jedi, etc..., which utilize a lot of bonus attacks/assists). To deal with this situation, CG either has to build in an anti-inFinnite mechanic to each and every single future piece of content where it could pop up, to the potential detriment of other teams, or change the inFinnite mechanic somehow. Good design would be fixing inFinnite once.
As far as "uproar," I'm sure there would be even less uproar if CG just removed p3 from the raid entirely, but as I said earlier, just because the mob wants it, doesn't mean it's the right solution.
Han shoots first (or second half the time they have Han also) at Chewbacca
My CLS goes next, and with my Chewbacca assisting their Chewbacca dies.
My R2 puts up a smoke screen, targeting CLS so if they ever get an attack its against CLS who has foresight.
My C3PO calls Han to assist, R2 and CLS also assists, kills their Han or leaves him stunned.
My Han shoots and stuns their Han if he is still alive + my Chewbacca assist to take their Han down.
Then my Han goes again, Kills there RT or CLS or what ever with his basic + Chewbacca Assisting.
My Chewbacca goes next, Kill Fin Last.
Rarely they aren't all dead and my CLS and R2 gets a second turns before they do much.
Honestly much easier to beat than any other current meta team. You may need very good speed mods to pull this off but compared to the 320+ speed Revan & GMY teams this seems like a cake walk.
This.
Just leave it CG, move on and ask the community to test before release possible meta-defining teams.
Don’t tinker and break something else. Plus you’ll have a lot asking for refunds because they spent on C3P0 even if it is zFinn that’s the issue.
This would be the dream scenario. I actually enjoy the Sith Raid now, because I know I only get one attempt in P1 (maybe 2 or 3 if I start right away), one attempt in P2, solo P3, all in about an hour. P4 can drop pretty soon, but by then I know whether I'll get Top 3 or Top 10, then decide if it's worth it.
And an auto-able HAAT is such a blessing.
bb8 exposes quite nicely, not sure what r2 and rey have to do on that team tho lol
On P3 of the Sith raid, Just give Treya stacking tenacity on expose (won't trip up JTR) or TM on expose (will trip up JTR in P3- but who's not using JTR in P1?). So this too is a tempest in a teapot. Just stop the nerfing of toons that people have farmed for, levelled and geared. It's a breach of promise, CG. And that's actionable.
I'm actually enjoying the variety on my arena shard. Used to be Top 50 were 100% Traya. Then it was Revan, and Traya for those who didn't get him. Now it's CLS, Finn, Revan, and Traya (though zFinn disappears immediately due to being terrible on defense.