Grand Arena Megathread

Replies

  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    Whether you agree with the specifics of the method I used here, there is so wide a gap that no method will ail. It's a simple fact that there's no investment vs GP correlation to G12 vs G6-7-8

    um9ja46a3zw7.png
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Whether you agree with the specifics of the method I used here, there is so wide a gap that no method will ail. It's a simple fact that there's no investment vs GP correlation to G12 vs G6-7-8

    um9ja46a3zw7.png

    Um, but the math is wrong.. How could I agree?
  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    As you can remember we went with old tables vs. the numbers you collected.

    jtj4w379dhco.png

    Yea, I don't get where you got those numbers at all.
    So far in my screenshots:
    Gear 6= 84*6=504 gp
    Gear 7= 112*6=672 gp
    Gear 8= 122*6= 732 gp
    Gear 9= 143*6= 858 gp
    Gear 11= 198*6=1188 gp
    Gear 12= 210*6= 1260 gp
    Just for gear tiers, additive. Also have screenshots and recording of ability level gp increases, star increases, levels, and mods.

    You do know how I got those numbers as I explained it to you. Let's try once more;

    Old G12 GP: 140
    New G12 GP: 210

    Old G6 GP: 56
    New G6 GP: 84

    You can expand the all table and you'll see old calculation is multiplied by 1.5, the ratios between gear tier GP's stayed the same.

    Only thing you can argue from here is that gear is now more valuable compared to other properties GPwise.
  • Please fix the broken matchup algorithm.

    This GA there is one of the 8 of us who has 7*, g12+ Revan AND HMF. The other 7 have neither. He also has 7* g12+ Mission, Z, etc - none of the other 7 have ANY of those at 7* How is that even possible?

    I'll report back to let you know which of the 8 of us wins. lolol.

    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    edited January 22
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Whether you agree with the specifics of the method I used here, there is so wide a gap that no method will ail. It's a simple fact that there's no investment vs GP correlation to G12 vs G6-7-8

    um9ja46a3zw7.png

    Um, but the math is wrong.. How could I agree?

    In what way it's wrong? See the streamlined to 1 part taking G7 as the base value. If the ratios between gear tier GPs doesn't change, those values won't change as well. Namely this part

    y5rfv2dzj7u5.png
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    As you can remember we went with old tables vs. the numbers you collected.

    jtj4w379dhco.png

    Yea, I don't get where you got those numbers at all.
    So far in my screenshots:
    Gear 6= 84*6=504 gp
    Gear 7= 112*6=672 gp
    Gear 8= 122*6= 732 gp
    Gear 9= 143*6= 858 gp
    Gear 11= 198*6=1188 gp
    Gear 12= 210*6= 1260 gp
    Just for gear tiers, additive. Also have screenshots and recording of ability level gp increases, star increases, levels, and mods.

    You do know how I got those numbers as I explained it to you. Let's try once more;

    Old G12 GP: 140
    New G12 GP: 210

    Old G6 GP: 56
    New G6 GP: 84

    You can expand the all table and you'll see old calculation is multiplied by 1.5, the ratios between gear tier GP's stayed the same.

    Only thing you can argue from here is that gear is now more valuable compared to other properties GPwise.

    Ok, I'm saying the "old values" are irrelevant to this conversation. There are six gear pieces per tier, with a higher gp value based on tier. The numbers add onto what was there already. If you go from gear 8 to gear 9, then each piece added 132 gp for a total of 732 added gp added to the value of gear 7,6,5,4,3,2,1. The math works just fine. That's why I'm not getting where you got the math in your pic. It doesn't fit, and it's not the increase shown in game.
  • Liath
    4866 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Please fix the broken matchup algorithm.

    This GA there is one of the 8 of us who has 7*, g12+ Revan AND HMF. The other 7 have neither. He also has 7* g12+ Mission, Z, etc - none of the other 7 have ANY of those at 7* How is that even possible?

    I'll report back to let you know which of the 8 of us wins. lolol.

    He can’t even use HMF in this GA so how is that even relevant?
  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    As you can remember we went with old tables vs. the numbers you collected.

    jtj4w379dhco.png

    Yea, I don't get where you got those numbers at all.
    So far in my screenshots:
    Gear 6= 84*6=504 gp
    Gear 7= 112*6=672 gp
    Gear 8= 122*6= 732 gp
    Gear 9= 143*6= 858 gp
    Gear 11= 198*6=1188 gp
    Gear 12= 210*6= 1260 gp
    Just for gear tiers, additive. Also have screenshots and recording of ability level gp increases, star increases, levels, and mods.

    You do know how I got those numbers as I explained it to you. Let's try once more;

    Old G12 GP: 140
    New G12 GP: 210

    Old G6 GP: 56
    New G6 GP: 84

    You can expand the all table and you'll see old calculation is multiplied by 1.5, the ratios between gear tier GP's stayed the same.

    Only thing you can argue from here is that gear is now more valuable compared to other properties GPwise.

    Ok, I'm saying the "old values" are irrelevant to this conversation. There are six gear pieces per tier, with a higher gp value based on tier. The numbers add onto what was there already. If you go from gear 8 to gear 9, then each piece added 132 gp for a total of 732 added gp added to the value of gear 7,6,5,4,3,2,1. The math works just fine. That's why I'm not getting where you got the math in your pic. It doesn't fit, and it's not the increase shown in game.

    I updated it, same result. Now you should be able to prove where my math is wrong.

    t2gigxbqibb9.png
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    As you can remember we went with old tables vs. the numbers you collected.

    jtj4w379dhco.png

    Yea, I don't get where you got those numbers at all.
    So far in my screenshots:
    Gear 6= 84*6=504 gp
    Gear 7= 112*6=672 gp
    Gear 8= 122*6= 732 gp
    Gear 9= 143*6= 858 gp
    Gear 11= 198*6=1188 gp
    Gear 12= 210*6= 1260 gp
    Just for gear tiers, additive. Also have screenshots and recording of ability level gp increases, star increases, levels, and mods.

    You do know how I got those numbers as I explained it to you. Let's try once more;

    Old G12 GP: 140
    New G12 GP: 210

    Old G6 GP: 56
    New G6 GP: 84

    You can expand the all table and you'll see old calculation is multiplied by 1.5, the ratios between gear tier GP's stayed the same.

    Only thing you can argue from here is that gear is now more valuable compared to other properties GPwise.

    Ok, I'm saying the "old values" are irrelevant to this conversation. There are six gear pieces per tier, with a higher gp value based on tier. The numbers add onto what was there already. If you go from gear 8 to gear 9, then each piece added 132 gp for a total of 732 added gp added to the value of gear 7,6,5,4,3,2,1. The math works just fine. That's why I'm not getting where you got the math in your pic. It doesn't fit, and it's not the increase shown in game.

    I updated it, same result. Now you should be able to prove where my math is wrong.

    t2gigxbqibb9.png

    Where's the rest of the gear piece values? There's six per tier.. It's added to the value gained from the previous tier.
    You only have one value for each 7,8, and 11. There's a lot of other numbers missing
  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    As you can remember we went with old tables vs. the numbers you collected.

    jtj4w379dhco.png

    Yea, I don't get where you got those numbers at all.
    So far in my screenshots:
    Gear 6= 84*6=504 gp
    Gear 7= 112*6=672 gp
    Gear 8= 122*6= 732 gp
    Gear 9= 143*6= 858 gp
    Gear 11= 198*6=1188 gp
    Gear 12= 210*6= 1260 gp
    Just for gear tiers, additive. Also have screenshots and recording of ability level gp increases, star increases, levels, and mods.

    You do know how I got those numbers as I explained it to you. Let's try once more;

    Old G12 GP: 140
    New G12 GP: 210

    Old G6 GP: 56
    New G6 GP: 84

    You can expand the all table and you'll see old calculation is multiplied by 1.5, the ratios between gear tier GP's stayed the same.

    Only thing you can argue from here is that gear is now more valuable compared to other properties GPwise.

    Ok, I'm saying the "old values" are irrelevant to this conversation. There are six gear pieces per tier, with a higher gp value based on tier. The numbers add onto what was there already. If you go from gear 8 to gear 9, then each piece added 132 gp for a total of 732 added gp added to the value of gear 7,6,5,4,3,2,1. The math works just fine. That's why I'm not getting where you got the math in your pic. It doesn't fit, and it's not the increase shown in game.

    I updated it, same result. Now you should be able to prove where my math is wrong.

    t2gigxbqibb9.png

    Where's the rest of the gear piece values? There's six per tier.. It's added to the value gained from the previous tier.
    You only have one value for each 7,8, and 11. There's a lot of other numbers missing

    Dude, multiplying it by 6 doesn't change the correlation. I don't even understand what you are arguing anymore. Nothing is missing there. The calculation does exactly what it's supposed to do.

    I think it's time you shift the gear from debating the GP calculation front as it's exactly as I calculated there and start to disagree with me on how I made the gear investment calculation xD.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    qgrtn9mjh11r.png
    wko6cpa3gfsj.png
    difference is 45 gp, due to the 6* mod. Same number and level of abilities, gear tier, etc.
    5*e=180
    5*d=203
    5*c = 225
    5* b= 258
    5* a=272
    6* e= 317

    So you can see how the math pulls. If everything is maxed on two toons, only difference is the mods and the number and levels of abilities
  • KnightofRen
    11 posts Member
    edited January 22
    Just gone into GA to see that my opponent has set no defence. Can this please be addressed because this is a bit of a joke.

    I strategised to balance my best defence vs offence for an opponent who couldn’t be bothered and now I have to sit and wait 48 hours to ‘maybe’ battle. Means I can’t work towards my quests or enjoy this game mode.

    I love GA but please can we have an auto set on defence if our opponents can’t be bothered!!
  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    qgrtn9mjh11r.png
    wko6cpa3gfsj.png
    difference is 45 gp, due to the 6* mod. Same number and level of abilities, gear tier, etc.
    5*e=180
    5*d=203
    5*c = 225
    5* b= 258
    5* a=272
    6* e= 317

    So you can see how the math pulls. If everything is maxed on two toons, only difference is the mods and the number and levels of abilities

    That was not what we are arguing, right?

    Since you went to mods, old values of mods also got exactly multiplied by 1.5 as well while the multipliers between mod tiers stayed the same. So both gear and mods are 1.5x GP of their old numbers and nothing else changed. Using this what you can rather argue is that stars are not as important compared to gear/mods in the new values.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    qgrtn9mjh11r.png
    wko6cpa3gfsj.png
    difference is 45 gp, due to the 6* mod. Same number and level of abilities, gear tier, etc.
    5*e=180
    5*d=203
    5*c = 225
    5* b= 258
    5* a=272
    6* e= 317

    So you can see how the math pulls. If everything is maxed on two toons, only difference is the mods and the number and levels of abilities

    That was not what we are arguing, right?

    Since you went to mods, old values of mods also got exactly multiplied by 1.5 as well while the multipliers between mod tiers stayed the same. So both gear and mods are 1.5x GP of their old numbers and nothing else changed. Using this what you can rather argue is that stars are not as important compared to gear/mods in the new values.

    I went to this example to point out that you're not adding the numbers on top of existing numbers for gear. If six g11 pieces of gear at 198 each are needed to get to g12, then a gear 12.0 is always 1260gp higher than a gear 11.0.
    A gear 9.0 is 858gp above a g7.0, and 1590 above a g6.0.
    Again, old values don't count for anything.
    And no, stars are a very important factor in gp.
  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    edited January 22
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    qgrtn9mjh11r.png
    wko6cpa3gfsj.png
    difference is 45 gp, due to the 6* mod. Same number and level of abilities, gear tier, etc.
    5*e=180
    5*d=203
    5*c = 225
    5* b= 258
    5* a=272
    6* e= 317

    So you can see how the math pulls. If everything is maxed on two toons, only difference is the mods and the number and levels of abilities

    That was not what we are arguing, right?

    Since you went to mods, old values of mods also got exactly multiplied by 1.5 as well while the multipliers between mod tiers stayed the same. So both gear and mods are 1.5x GP of their old numbers and nothing else changed. Using this what you can rather argue is that stars are not as important compared to gear/mods in the new values.

    I went to this example to point out that you're not adding the numbers on top of existing numbers for gear. If six g11 pieces of gear at 198 each are needed to get to g12, then a gear 12.0 is always 1260gp higher than a gear 11.0.
    A gear 9.0 is 858gp above a g7.0, and 1590 above a g6.0.
    Again, old values don't count for anything.
    And no, stars are a very important factor in gp.

    Old values count for something since the comparison shows nothing changed besides them getting bumped by 1.5x for gear and mods. I didn't say stars are now not important, I said they are less important compared to the old calculation since now gear and mods add 1.5x of their old GP values.

    I didn't deny any of the new values you've shown. Yes gear GP is still additive as it was, what can we derive from it being so?

    I've shown you how the correlation stands using the new values too though...
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    qgrtn9mjh11r.png
    wko6cpa3gfsj.png
    difference is 45 gp, due to the 6* mod. Same number and level of abilities, gear tier, etc.
    5*e=180
    5*d=203
    5*c = 225
    5* b= 258
    5* a=272
    6* e= 317

    So you can see how the math pulls. If everything is maxed on two toons, only difference is the mods and the number and levels of abilities

    That was not what we are arguing, right?

    Since you went to mods, old values of mods also got exactly multiplied by 1.5 as well while the multipliers between mod tiers stayed the same. So both gear and mods are 1.5x GP of their old numbers and nothing else changed. Using this what you can rather argue is that stars are not as important compared to gear/mods in the new values.

    I went to this example to point out that you're not adding the numbers on top of existing numbers for gear. If six g11 pieces of gear at 198 each are needed to get to g12, then a gear 12.0 is always 1260gp higher than a gear 11.0.
    A gear 9.0 is 858gp above a g7.0, and 1590 above a g6.0.
    Again, old values don't count for anything.
    And no, stars are a very important factor in gp.

    Old values count for something since the comparison shows nothing changed besides them getting bumped by 1.5x for gear and mods. I didn't say stars are now not important, I said they are less important compared to the old calculation since now gear and mods add 1.5x of their old GP values.

    I didn't deny any of the new values you've shown. Yes gear GP is still additive as it was, what can we derive from it being so?

    I've shown you how the correlation stands using the new values too though...

    I really don't get why you keep going back to old values tho. I've never seen an example of those old values that accurately matched anything in game. The math for How gp is calculated currently is pretty solid tho.
  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    qgrtn9mjh11r.png
    wko6cpa3gfsj.png
    difference is 45 gp, due to the 6* mod. Same number and level of abilities, gear tier, etc.
    5*e=180
    5*d=203
    5*c = 225
    5* b= 258
    5* a=272
    6* e= 317

    So you can see how the math pulls. If everything is maxed on two toons, only difference is the mods and the number and levels of abilities

    That was not what we are arguing, right?

    Since you went to mods, old values of mods also got exactly multiplied by 1.5 as well while the multipliers between mod tiers stayed the same. So both gear and mods are 1.5x GP of their old numbers and nothing else changed. Using this what you can rather argue is that stars are not as important compared to gear/mods in the new values.

    I went to this example to point out that you're not adding the numbers on top of existing numbers for gear. If six g11 pieces of gear at 198 each are needed to get to g12, then a gear 12.0 is always 1260gp higher than a gear 11.0.
    A gear 9.0 is 858gp above a g7.0, and 1590 above a g6.0.
    Again, old values don't count for anything.
    And no, stars are a very important factor in gp.

    Old values count for something since the comparison shows nothing changed besides them getting bumped by 1.5x for gear and mods. I didn't say stars are now not important, I said they are less important compared to the old calculation since now gear and mods add 1.5x of their old GP values.

    I didn't deny any of the new values you've shown. Yes gear GP is still additive as it was, what can we derive from it being so?

    I've shown you how the correlation stands using the new values too though...

    I really don't get why you keep going back to old values tho. I've never seen an example of those old values that accurately matched anything in game. The math for How gp is calculated currently is pretty solid tho.

    Because you seem to be implying old calculation was somewhat bad but CG made it better by changing the values and I agree in the sense that they made gear and mods overall more valuable. I also agree that there's math involved in the new calculation, I showcased how it's not solid whatsoever since it does not corellate with the investment (using the single example of gear tiers). Will leave you to showcasing how it is since you finally made a claim.
  • As a player of 3 years i proudly admit that GA is my favorite part of the game, especially 3V3!
    So imagine my disappointment when i find that my opponent in the first round hasn't set any defense :'(

    Personally I'm one of those players who would prefer to play and lose than win by default.
    And no, a win by default isn't better in the long run as i can't get quest rewards.

    I would like to suggest that if a person doesn't set defence then random teams are put in instead, maybe the ai can put a leader in the leader spot and use toons of the same faction so there is some synergy.
    I know some people will say 'that's not fair as they will be weak teams' to which i say 'you should of used that 24 hours to set your own defence or DON'T JOIN'.
    Looking for 1 member with 3.5m+ GP roster to help in GEO TB; we are 185m guild who are 70-6 in TW.
  • maraexibil wrote: »
    Dammit. I never missed an event in the last 2-3 years! There must be a notification dot on the table. Devs!

    I had the GA symbol just under the millennium falcon symbol on the right of the screen all day for joining.
    Looking for 1 member with 3.5m+ GP roster to help in GEO TB; we are 185m guild who are 70-6 in TW.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    qgrtn9mjh11r.png
    wko6cpa3gfsj.png
    difference is 45 gp, due to the 6* mod. Same number and level of abilities, gear tier, etc.
    5*e=180
    5*d=203
    5*c = 225
    5* b= 258
    5* a=272
    6* e= 317

    So you can see how the math pulls. If everything is maxed on two toons, only difference is the mods and the number and levels of abilities

    That was not what we are arguing, right?

    Since you went to mods, old values of mods also got exactly multiplied by 1.5 as well while the multipliers between mod tiers stayed the same. So both gear and mods are 1.5x GP of their old numbers and nothing else changed. Using this what you can rather argue is that stars are not as important compared to gear/mods in the new values.

    I went to this example to point out that you're not adding the numbers on top of existing numbers for gear. If six g11 pieces of gear at 198 each are needed to get to g12, then a gear 12.0 is always 1260gp higher than a gear 11.0.
    A gear 9.0 is 858gp above a g7.0, and 1590 above a g6.0.
    Again, old values don't count for anything.
    And no, stars are a very important factor in gp.

    Old values count for something since the comparison shows nothing changed besides them getting bumped by 1.5x for gear and mods. I didn't say stars are now not important, I said they are less important compared to the old calculation since now gear and mods add 1.5x of their old GP values.

    I didn't deny any of the new values you've shown. Yes gear GP is still additive as it was, what can we derive from it being so?

    I've shown you how the correlation stands using the new values too though...

    I really don't get why you keep going back to old values tho. I've never seen an example of those old values that accurately matched anything in game. The math for How gp is calculated currently is pretty solid tho.

    Because you seem to be implying old calculation was somewhat bad but CG made it better by changing the values and I agree in the sense that they made gear and mods overall more valuable. I also agree that there's math involved in the new calculation, I showcased how it's not solid whatsoever since it does not corellate with the investment (using the single example of gear tiers). Will leave you to showcasing how it is since you finally made a claim.

    It's solid because it's reliable across the board and the result can be repeated reliably, as my pic of 2g12s back there shows. Without the one mod difference, the two toons would have the exact same gp.

    It's reflecting investment into that toon cuz for each gear tier, the six parts have a higher value each time. Also, mods of higher color carry higher value. Stars carry higher value each time. Abilities as well. So It builds and adds more gp the higher it gets.

    I have two g11 toons with the same number and level of abilities, but one is 4* and the other 7*. The 7* is 3000 gp higher. This is also obvious on the toons stats, since they increase with stars thru multipliers. So my 7* toon is much more useful in battle.
  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    qgrtn9mjh11r.png
    wko6cpa3gfsj.png
    difference is 45 gp, due to the 6* mod. Same number and level of abilities, gear tier, etc.
    5*e=180
    5*d=203
    5*c = 225
    5* b= 258
    5* a=272
    6* e= 317

    So you can see how the math pulls. If everything is maxed on two toons, only difference is the mods and the number and levels of abilities

    That was not what we are arguing, right?

    Since you went to mods, old values of mods also got exactly multiplied by 1.5 as well while the multipliers between mod tiers stayed the same. So both gear and mods are 1.5x GP of their old numbers and nothing else changed. Using this what you can rather argue is that stars are not as important compared to gear/mods in the new values.

    I went to this example to point out that you're not adding the numbers on top of existing numbers for gear. If six g11 pieces of gear at 198 each are needed to get to g12, then a gear 12.0 is always 1260gp higher than a gear 11.0.
    A gear 9.0 is 858gp above a g7.0, and 1590 above a g6.0.
    Again, old values don't count for anything.
    And no, stars are a very important factor in gp.

    Old values count for something since the comparison shows nothing changed besides them getting bumped by 1.5x for gear and mods. I didn't say stars are now not important, I said they are less important compared to the old calculation since now gear and mods add 1.5x of their old GP values.

    I didn't deny any of the new values you've shown. Yes gear GP is still additive as it was, what can we derive from it being so?

    I've shown you how the correlation stands using the new values too though...

    I really don't get why you keep going back to old values tho. I've never seen an example of those old values that accurately matched anything in game. The math for How gp is calculated currently is pretty solid tho.

    Because you seem to be implying old calculation was somewhat bad but CG made it better by changing the values and I agree in the sense that they made gear and mods overall more valuable. I also agree that there's math involved in the new calculation, I showcased how it's not solid whatsoever since it does not corellate with the investment (using the single example of gear tiers). Will leave you to showcasing how it is since you finally made a claim.

    It's solid because it's reliable across the board and the result can be repeated reliably, as my pic of 2g12s back there shows. Without the one mod difference, the two toons would have the exact same gp.

    It's reflecting investment into that toon cuz for each gear tier, the six parts have a higher value each time. Also, mods of higher color carry higher value. Stars carry higher value each time. Abilities as well. So It builds and adds more gp the higher it gets.

    I have two g11 toons with the same number and level of abilities, but one is 4* and the other 7*. The 7* is 3000 gp higher. This is also obvious on the toons stats, since they increase with stars thru multipliers. So my 7* toon is much more useful in battle.

    Right at the last paragraph you took your argument back to combat effectiveness paradigm. So now you claim GP both correlates with level of investment and combat effectiveness?

    Values rise as tiers/levels of things rise. This does not automatically make a solid calculation. The rises does not correlate with anything, they just rise by an arbitrary amount.

    If G12 GP was in the ballpark of it's investment (gear invested) it would have been %400 of GP of it's current GP assuming G7 stays the same. I did not reach this number arbitrarily, I set up some ground rules&assumptions for gear piece worth calculation and has shown that worth in terms of energy multiplies to %419 between G7 and G12.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    qgrtn9mjh11r.png
    wko6cpa3gfsj.png
    difference is 45 gp, due to the 6* mod. Same number and level of abilities, gear tier, etc.
    5*e=180
    5*d=203
    5*c = 225
    5* b= 258
    5* a=272
    6* e= 317

    So you can see how the math pulls. If everything is maxed on two toons, only difference is the mods and the number and levels of abilities

    That was not what we are arguing, right?

    Since you went to mods, old values of mods also got exactly multiplied by 1.5 as well while the multipliers between mod tiers stayed the same. So both gear and mods are 1.5x GP of their old numbers and nothing else changed. Using this what you can rather argue is that stars are not as important compared to gear/mods in the new values.

    I went to this example to point out that you're not adding the numbers on top of existing numbers for gear. If six g11 pieces of gear at 198 each are needed to get to g12, then a gear 12.0 is always 1260gp higher than a gear 11.0.
    A gear 9.0 is 858gp above a g7.0, and 1590 above a g6.0.
    Again, old values don't count for anything.
    And no, stars are a very important factor in gp.

    Old values count for something since the comparison shows nothing changed besides them getting bumped by 1.5x for gear and mods. I didn't say stars are now not important, I said they are less important compared to the old calculation since now gear and mods add 1.5x of their old GP values.

    I didn't deny any of the new values you've shown. Yes gear GP is still additive as it was, what can we derive from it being so?

    I've shown you how the correlation stands using the new values too though...

    I really don't get why you keep going back to old values tho. I've never seen an example of those old values that accurately matched anything in game. The math for How gp is calculated currently is pretty solid tho.

    Because you seem to be implying old calculation was somewhat bad but CG made it better by changing the values and I agree in the sense that they made gear and mods overall more valuable. I also agree that there's math involved in the new calculation, I showcased how it's not solid whatsoever since it does not corellate with the investment (using the single example of gear tiers). Will leave you to showcasing how it is since you finally made a claim.

    It's solid because it's reliable across the board and the result can be repeated reliably, as my pic of 2g12s back there shows. Without the one mod difference, the two toons would have the exact same gp.

    It's reflecting investment into that toon cuz for each gear tier, the six parts have a higher value each time. Also, mods of higher color carry higher value. Stars carry higher value each time. Abilities as well. So It builds and adds more gp the higher it gets.

    I have two g11 toons with the same number and level of abilities, but one is 4* and the other 7*. The 7* is 3000 gp higher. This is also obvious on the toons stats, since they increase with stars thru multipliers. So my 7* toon is much more useful in battle.

    Right at the last paragraph you took your argument back to combat effectiveness paradigm. So now you claim GP both correlates with level of investment and combat effectiveness?

    Values rise as tiers/levels of things rise. This does not automatically make a solid calculation. The rises does not correlate with anything, they just rise by an arbitrary amount.

    If G12 GP was in the ballpark of it's investment (gear invested) it would have been %400 of GP of it's current GP assuming G7 stays the same. I did not reach this number arbitrarily, I set up some ground rules&assumptions for gear piece worth calculation and has shown that worth in terms of energy multiplies to %419 between G7 and G12.

    If you compare two toons that only differ by stars/stats, then yes. I was comparing an ig88 and jango. Even tho they're both g11, jango's missing stars make him more equivalent with a g9 toon would be at 7*, both in power and stats. If you want to compare usefulness in battle or effectiveness, only their kits matter and gp is next to irrelevant.
    You say that everything is increased by an arbitrary amount, but it's all easy to replicate, and can be broken down pretty simply. Toons start at 301 before unlock. Everything is added, getting higher as you go until you reach gear/star/ability/mod cap. Each addition gets more complex and needs more resources as you progress to higher tiers (everyone is different and has their own choke points, but it's totally subjective).
    Only thing different between any two toons is how many ability they have, and if those have zetas. Otherwise, all toons are equal at max.
    So what's arbitrary?
  • Why don't ya'll take it to private chat with the math debate... most of us don't care.

    In other news, they need to match people with those who have Traya and those who do not. I simply don't care what the GP is because it doesn't matter when you stick OP toons in the game. It really comes down Traya and maybe three other toons. If you have them you can compete. If you don't have them, you can have 500K more GP and it absolutely does not matter.

    Capital Games has emasculated that much of our rosters.
  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    Why don't ya'll take it to private chat with the math debate... most of us don't care.

    In other news, they need to match people with those who have Traya and those who do not. I simply don't care what the GP is because it doesn't matter when you stick OP toons in the game. It really comes down Traya and maybe three other toons. If you have them you can compete. If you don't have them, you can have 500K more GP and it absolutely does not matter.

    Capital Games has emasculated that much of our rosters.

    No. The ones that do care are more than enough. You can -not care- and that's fine as well.
  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    edited January 23
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    qgrtn9mjh11r.png
    wko6cpa3gfsj.png
    difference is 45 gp, due to the 6* mod. Same number and level of abilities, gear tier, etc.
    5*e=180
    5*d=203
    5*c = 225
    5* b= 258
    5* a=272
    6* e= 317

    So you can see how the math pulls. If everything is maxed on two toons, only difference is the mods and the number and levels of abilities

    That was not what we are arguing, right?

    Since you went to mods, old values of mods also got exactly multiplied by 1.5 as well while the multipliers between mod tiers stayed the same. So both gear and mods are 1.5x GP of their old numbers and nothing else changed. Using this what you can rather argue is that stars are not as important compared to gear/mods in the new values.

    I went to this example to point out that you're not adding the numbers on top of existing numbers for gear. If six g11 pieces of gear at 198 each are needed to get to g12, then a gear 12.0 is always 1260gp higher than a gear 11.0.
    A gear 9.0 is 858gp above a g7.0, and 1590 above a g6.0.
    Again, old values don't count for anything.
    And no, stars are a very important factor in gp.

    Old values count for something since the comparison shows nothing changed besides them getting bumped by 1.5x for gear and mods. I didn't say stars are now not important, I said they are less important compared to the old calculation since now gear and mods add 1.5x of their old GP values.

    I didn't deny any of the new values you've shown. Yes gear GP is still additive as it was, what can we derive from it being so?

    I've shown you how the correlation stands using the new values too though...

    I really don't get why you keep going back to old values tho. I've never seen an example of those old values that accurately matched anything in game. The math for How gp is calculated currently is pretty solid tho.

    Because you seem to be implying old calculation was somewhat bad but CG made it better by changing the values and I agree in the sense that they made gear and mods overall more valuable. I also agree that there's math involved in the new calculation, I showcased how it's not solid whatsoever since it does not corellate with the investment (using the single example of gear tiers). Will leave you to showcasing how it is since you finally made a claim.

    It's solid because it's reliable across the board and the result can be repeated reliably, as my pic of 2g12s back there shows. Without the one mod difference, the two toons would have the exact same gp.

    It's reflecting investment into that toon cuz for each gear tier, the six parts have a higher value each time. Also, mods of higher color carry higher value. Stars carry higher value each time. Abilities as well. So It builds and adds more gp the higher it gets.

    I have two g11 toons with the same number and level of abilities, but one is 4* and the other 7*. The 7* is 3000 gp higher. This is also obvious on the toons stats, since they increase with stars thru multipliers. So my 7* toon is much more useful in battle.

    Right at the last paragraph you took your argument back to combat effectiveness paradigm. So now you claim GP both correlates with level of investment and combat effectiveness?

    Values rise as tiers/levels of things rise. This does not automatically make a solid calculation. The rises does not correlate with anything, they just rise by an arbitrary amount.

    If G12 GP was in the ballpark of it's investment (gear invested) it would have been %400 of GP of it's current GP assuming G7 stays the same. I did not reach this number arbitrarily, I set up some ground rules&assumptions for gear piece worth calculation and has shown that worth in terms of energy multiplies to %419 between G7 and G12.

    If you compare two toons that only differ by stars/stats, then yes. I was comparing an ig88 and jango. Even tho they're both g11, jango's missing stars make him more equivalent with a g9 toon would be at 7*, both in power and stats. If you want to compare usefulness in battle or effectiveness, only their kits matter and gp is next to irrelevant.
    You say that everything is increased by an arbitrary amount, but it's all easy to replicate, and can be broken down pretty simply. Toons start at 301 before unlock. Everything is added, getting higher as you go until you reach gear/star/ability/mod cap. Each addition gets more complex and needs more resources as you progress to higher tiers (everyone is different and has their own choke points, but it's totally subjective).
    Only thing different between any two toons is how many ability they have, and if those have zetas. Otherwise, all toons are equal at max.
    So what's arbitrary?

    Arbitrary is how those amounts are determined. Ofc it applies universally between all parameters and all toons. I don't imply that there's rng involved in this calculation. If it's not arbitrary and if it also doesn't correlate with neither investment or combat effectiveness, what does it correlate with; a number or factors, which factors?

    What kind of solid calculation weighs a G11 slot worth of 198 GP and a G7 slot is worth 112 GP? Why does it rise by a factor of 1.76 between G7 and G11, what does this factor correspond to? Is the fact that it simply rises warrant a solid calculation? It should have risen by tenfolds or just 1 GP. Are these equally solid calculations?
  • Gorem
    1185 posts Member
    Actually I do agree with the others, when 2 people start spamming a thread, its time those 2 people just take it to PM's because honestly, I skipped over every one of the posts like many others do, its between you 2, no need to spam the thread :p
  • No_Try
    3804 posts Member
    edited January 23
    Gorem wrote: »
    Actually I do agree with the others, when 2 people start spamming a thread, its time those 2 people just take it to PM's because honestly, I skipped over every one of the posts like many others do, its between you 2, no need to spam the thread :p

    It's not really between us, we are not talking about an interpersonal topic. We are talking about the exact topic of this topic. Even if noone else replies I will still assume some does read it and hopefully it may even make it to developer's eyes.

    To me most of the stuff people post on this topic is gibberish, so?

    Here's some spam for you. You may want to check what it means.

  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    qgrtn9mjh11r.png
    wko6cpa3gfsj.png
    difference is 45 gp, due to the 6* mod. Same number and level of abilities, gear tier, etc.
    5*e=180
    5*d=203
    5*c = 225
    5* b= 258
    5* a=272
    6* e= 317

    So you can see how the math pulls. If everything is maxed on two toons, only difference is the mods and the number and levels of abilities

    That was not what we are arguing, right?

    Since you went to mods, old values of mods also got exactly multiplied by 1.5 as well while the multipliers between mod tiers stayed the same. So both gear and mods are 1.5x GP of their old numbers and nothing else changed. Using this what you can rather argue is that stars are not as important compared to gear/mods in the new values.

    I went to this example to point out that you're not adding the numbers on top of existing numbers for gear. If six g11 pieces of gear at 198 each are needed to get to g12, then a gear 12.0 is always 1260gp higher than a gear 11.0.
    A gear 9.0 is 858gp above a g7.0, and 1590 above a g6.0.
    Again, old values don't count for anything.
    And no, stars are a very important factor in gp.

    Old values count for something since the comparison shows nothing changed besides them getting bumped by 1.5x for gear and mods. I didn't say stars are now not important, I said they are less important compared to the old calculation since now gear and mods add 1.5x of their old GP values.

    I didn't deny any of the new values you've shown. Yes gear GP is still additive as it was, what can we derive from it being so?

    I've shown you how the correlation stands using the new values too though...

    I really don't get why you keep going back to old values tho. I've never seen an example of those old values that accurately matched anything in game. The math for How gp is calculated currently is pretty solid tho.

    Because you seem to be implying old calculation was somewhat bad but CG made it better by changing the values and I agree in the sense that they made gear and mods overall more valuable. I also agree that there's math involved in the new calculation, I showcased how it's not solid whatsoever since it does not corellate with the investment (using the single example of gear tiers). Will leave you to showcasing how it is since you finally made a claim.

    It's solid because it's reliable across the board and the result can be repeated reliably, as my pic of 2g12s back there shows. Without the one mod difference, the two toons would have the exact same gp.

    It's reflecting investment into that toon cuz for each gear tier, the six parts have a higher value each time. Also, mods of higher color carry higher value. Stars carry higher value each time. Abilities as well. So It builds and adds more gp the higher it gets.

    I have two g11 toons with the same number and level of abilities, but one is 4* and the other 7*. The 7* is 3000 gp higher. This is also obvious on the toons stats, since they increase with stars thru multipliers. So my 7* toon is much more useful in battle.

    Right at the last paragraph you took your argument back to combat effectiveness paradigm. So now you claim GP both correlates with level of investment and combat effectiveness?

    Values rise as tiers/levels of things rise. This does not automatically make a solid calculation. The rises does not correlate with anything, they just rise by an arbitrary amount.

    If G12 GP was in the ballpark of it's investment (gear invested) it would have been %400 of GP of it's current GP assuming G7 stays the same. I did not reach this number arbitrarily, I set up some ground rules&assumptions for gear piece worth calculation and has shown that worth in terms of energy multiplies to %419 between G7 and G12.

    If you compare two toons that only differ by stars/stats, then yes. I was comparing an ig88 and jango. Even tho they're both g11, jango's missing stars make him more equivalent with a g9 toon would be at 7*, both in power and stats. If you want to compare usefulness in battle or effectiveness, only their kits matter and gp is next to irrelevant.
    You say that everything is increased by an arbitrary amount, but it's all easy to replicate, and can be broken down pretty simply. Toons start at 301 before unlock. Everything is added, getting higher as you go until you reach gear/star/ability/mod cap. Each addition gets more complex and needs more resources as you progress to higher tiers (everyone is different and has their own choke points, but it's totally subjective).
    Only thing different between any two toons is how many ability they have, and if those have zetas. Otherwise, all toons are equal at max.
    So what's arbitrary?

    Arbitrary is how those amounts are determined. Ofc it applies universally between all parameters and all toons. I don't imply that there's rng involved in this calculation. If it's not arbitrary and if it also doesn't correlate with neither investment or combat effectiveness, what does it correlate with; a number or factors, which factors?

    What kind of solid calculation weighs a G11 slot worth of 198 GP and a G7 slot is worth 112 GP? Why does it rise by a factor of 1.76 between G7 and G11, what does this factor correspond to?

    Seems to be overall completion across all factors you can upgrade on a toon.

    That's a question for the devs, and I'd love to know why they landed on those exact values per thing, but as precise and meticulous as the system seems to be, I imagine they set it there a reason.
    I would guess it's due to having like 7 different factors all weighing in at once, so the differences would have to be spread out more to allow each its own portion, and maybe to ensure that things nearer to completion would have a bigger increase and greater overall value.
  • Liath wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Please fix the broken matchup algorithm.

    This GA there is one of the 8 of us who has 7*, g12+ Revan AND HMF. The other 7 have neither. He also has 7* g12+ Mission, Z, etc - none of the other 7 have ANY of those at 7* How is that even possible?

    I'll report back to let you know which of the 8 of us wins. lolol.

    He can’t even use HMF in this GA so how is that even relevant?

    Way to completely miss the larger point.

    There are certain characters/ships/gear levels that should be weighted in the match up algorithm - Revan, g12+ gear, 6 star mods, HMF all being examples - as all tend to be extremely powerful when matched up 1 on 1 with someone whose roster lacks them.

    A roster that has Revan, will automatically, just by virtue of having him, will require one more strong offensive team.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Please fix the broken matchup algorithm.

    This GA there is one of the 8 of us who has 7*, g12+ Revan AND HMF. The other 7 have neither. He also has 7* g12+ Mission, Z, etc - none of the other 7 have ANY of those at 7* How is that even possible?

    I'll report back to let you know which of the 8 of us wins. lolol.

    He can’t even use HMF in this GA so how is that even relevant?

    Way to completely miss the larger point.

    There are certain characters/ships/gear levels that should be weighted in the match up algorithm - Revan, g12+ gear, 6 star mods, HMF all being examples - as all tend to be extremely powerful when matched up 1 on 1 with someone whose roster lacks them.

    A roster that has Revan, will automatically, just by virtue of having him, will require one more strong offensive team.

    But in the same way, having any decent toon will require an offensive counter to match it. Revan isn't any harder than traya seemed initially, just takes some time to find the right counters.
    They can barely match gp within reasonable parameters, what makes you think adding other factors will make it better and not worse?
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