Grand Arena Megathread

Replies

  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    But what it really boils down to is a time vs benefit analysis of wheter it's worth it to change the matchmaking process.

    Now I agree it probably is on the lower side of the time if they just do the ship gp issue. But other options like revamping how gp is calculated is likely further up there.

    And on the benefit side you really need raw data to know how many are effected. The real argument on here is some think it's a big issue while others don't.

    Then finally we also don't knowvwhat else there is for alternatives for the time and effort spent changing matchmaking would be. I have a long list of things I'd like to see more than this. Mostly, new and harder comtent since I'm at end game and run out of challenges. Newer players likely feel differently since they have plenty of stuff to do.

    It's a balancing act on what helps the most and none of us have the information to say definitively what they need to do. So if they change the matchmaking, fine. If they don't fine.

    I agree. But simply adding a "Revan check" or a "number of g12+ toons" check or, if ships are involved, a HT and HMF check, wouldn't be that difficult. And it certainly wouldn't "unbalance" things any more than they already are.

    As I said, if it's WAI and simply intended as another game mode (like HSith) to hand out better gear/rewards to whales, then it's working perfectly. If it's designed to be a fun, competitive game mode for similarly rostered players, then it might need a tweak or two.

    all those things are available ftp except for revan and he's been out long enough that when the event returns he's ftp. If you don't have them that's on you.

    And making it where new toys won't give an advantage will discourage people from buying said toys. So your idea is not going to happen.
  • Dk_rek
    3180 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    But what it really boils down to is a time vs benefit analysis of wheter it's worth it to change the matchmaking process.

    Now I agree it probably is on the lower side of the time if they just do the ship gp issue. But other options like revamping how gp is calculated is likely further up there.

    And on the benefit side you really need raw data to know how many are effected. The real argument on here is some think it's a big issue while others don't.

    Then finally we also don't knowvwhat else there is for alternatives for the time and effort spent changing matchmaking would be. I have a long list of things I'd like to see more than this. Mostly, new and harder comtent since I'm at end game and run out of challenges. Newer players likely feel differently since they have plenty of stuff to do.

    It's a balancing act on what helps the most and none of us have the information to say definitively what they need to do. So if they change the matchmaking, fine. If they don't fine.

    I agree. But simply adding a "Revan check" or a "number of g12+ toons" check or, if ships are involved, a HT and HMF check, wouldn't be that difficult. And it certainly wouldn't "unbalance" things any more than they already are.

    As I said, if it's WAI and simply intended as another game mode (like HSith) to hand out better gear/rewards to whales, then it's working perfectly. If it's designed to be a fun, competitive game mode for similarly rostered players, then it might need a tweak or two.

    all those things are available ftp except for revan and he's been out long enough that when the event returns he's ftp. If you don't have them that's on you.

    And making it where new toys won't give an advantage will discourage people from buying said toys. So your idea is not going to happen.

    Yeah it does not have to go that far just the ship GP check when no ships

    If i have 2 mil toon GP and so does my opponent and he bas 30 more g12 and all the shiny stuff then hey he earned it i can live with it...

    If he gets 10 -15 extra teams because of the 400-800k difference in ships thats bad... because we never should have been matched in the first place...

    I dont get why its hard to understand for some.... 2 mil vs 2 mil toon gp whatever happens happens
    1.8 mil gp vs 2.4 gp toon because ships imbalance he should have been matched elsewhere
  • Liath
    4866 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »

    In other news, they need to match people with those who have Traya and those who do not. I simply don't care what the GP is because it doesn't matter when you stick OP toons in the game. It really comes down Traya and maybe three other toons. If you have them you can compete. If you don't have them, you can have 500K more GP and it absolutely does not matter.

    Capital Games has emasculated that much of our rosters.

    People need to give up this idea. The folks that pay to get the premium characters often do so in order to get an advantage in PvP areas over those that don’t. Taking away that advantage by only matching them against each other is a bad idea for the game and never going to happen. It’s the same reason the requests that whales be split off from regular arena have never gone anywhere and never will.

    It's not at all the same request. If someone has a 7* full geared Revan and, as a result, several thousand GP higher, how are they being matched up with players of lower GP? The problem is the way GP is calculated and matched up - especially in regards to some of the newer, stronger characters. A zeta on Revan counts the same in GP as a zeta on Clone Wars Chewie - but in GA the two are not nearly the same. That's the flaw in the algorithm.

    Especially in a game mode that was introduced years after launch. Older players geared up characters that were needed at different points in the game for different metas, different events - some of which no longer exist. But since you can't "ungear" or "unlevel" players that have "wider" rosters are being matched up against stronger rostered players.

    If GA is simply another game mode to reward whales over f2p, and it's WAI, then fine. As I said, it's CG's game to mess with as they see fit. But if that's the case, then CG, please give us more crappy TW in GA's place then.

    If GA is simply going to be a game mode that hands out good gear to those that have Revan, then it's simply a different iteration of the poor top-heavy HSith reward structure. Cool.

    Another reason I will be making my account "available" soon.


    How exactly is TW better? You can just as easily face guilds with 2-3x as many Revans as your guild has in TW.

    People with Revan aren’t being matched with people of lower GP, they are being matched with people who have the same GP but have geared some other character(s) instead of Revan. So I don’t understand that part of your point at all.

    Not all zetas are created equal, that’s true. So the guy in my grouping who decided to zeta Lumi (and is running her under CLS lead in arena!!) should be matched with other people who made similarly silly decisions? Why?

    I understand that you are also upset about the “fluff” issue, but you really have to separate the two questions. Whether GP adequately measures the value of g8 vs g12 is a different issue from whether the matching should take into account the differences in characters. If two people have the same number of g12 characters but one person chose to gear the best characters in the game and the other chose to gear random characters he happens to like, the second person should expect to face and lose to the first because that’s what happens in a competitive game mode when you choose not to make competitive decisions.
  • Dk_rek wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    But what it really boils down to is a time vs benefit analysis of wheter it's worth it to change the matchmaking process.

    Now I agree it probably is on the lower side of the time if they just do the ship gp issue. But other options like revamping how gp is calculated is likely further up there.

    And on the benefit side you really need raw data to know how many are effected. The real argument on here is some think it's a big issue while others don't.

    Then finally we also don't knowvwhat else there is for alternatives for the time and effort spent changing matchmaking would be. I have a long list of things I'd like to see more than this. Mostly, new and harder comtent since I'm at end game and run out of challenges. Newer players likely feel differently since they have plenty of stuff to do.

    It's a balancing act on what helps the most and none of us have the information to say definitively what they need to do. So if they change the matchmaking, fine. If they don't fine.

    I agree. But simply adding a "Revan check" or a "number of g12+ toons" check or, if ships are involved, a HT and HMF check, wouldn't be that difficult. And it certainly wouldn't "unbalance" things any more than they already are.

    As I said, if it's WAI and simply intended as another game mode (like HSith) to hand out better gear/rewards to whales, then it's working perfectly. If it's designed to be a fun, competitive game mode for similarly rostered players, then it might need a tweak or two.

    all those things are available ftp except for revan and he's been out long enough that when the event returns he's ftp. If you don't have them that's on you.

    And making it where new toys won't give an advantage will discourage people from buying said toys. So your idea is not going to happen.

    Yeah it does not have to go that far just the ship GP check when no ships

    If i have 2 mil toon GP and so does my opponent and he bas 30 more g12 and all the shiny stuff then hey he earned it i can live with it...

    If he gets 10 -15 extra teams because of the 400-800k difference in ships thats bad... because we never should have been matched in the first place...

    I dont get why its hard to understand for some.... 2 mil vs 2 mil toon gp whatever happens happens
    1.8 mil gp vs 2.4 gp toon because ships imbalance he should have been matched elsewhere

    I'm ok with the 3.2 mil vs 3.2 mil total gp and what ever happens happens.

    If you have that large of a mismatch because of ships that's likely either rare because your opponent did no ships or you put too much into ships.

    Now if they decide to exclude ship gp, that's fine but I don't think it makes the matchmaking inherently unfair any more than letting those with revan be matched with those tgat do not.
  • Liath wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »

    In other news, they need to match people with those who have Traya and those who do not. I simply don't care what the GP is because it doesn't matter when you stick OP toons in the game. It really comes down Traya and maybe three other toons. If you have them you can compete. If you don't have them, you can have 500K more GP and it absolutely does not matter.

    Capital Games has emasculated that much of our rosters.

    People need to give up this idea. The folks that pay to get the premium characters often do so in order to get an advantage in PvP areas over those that don’t. Taking away that advantage by only matching them against each other is a bad idea for the game and never going to happen. It’s the same reason the requests that whales be split off from regular arena have never gone anywhere and never will.

    It's not at all the same request. If someone has a 7* full geared Revan and, as a result, several thousand GP higher, how are they being matched up with players of lower GP? The problem is the way GP is calculated and matched up - especially in regards to some of the newer, stronger characters. A zeta on Revan counts the same in GP as a zeta on Clone Wars Chewie - but in GA the two are not nearly the same. That's the flaw in the algorithm.

    Especially in a game mode that was introduced years after launch. Older players geared up characters that were needed at different points in the game for different metas, different events - some of which no longer exist. But since you can't "ungear" or "unlevel" players that have "wider" rosters are being matched up against stronger rostered players.

    If GA is simply another game mode to reward whales over f2p, and it's WAI, then fine. As I said, it's CG's game to mess with as they see fit. But if that's the case, then CG, please give us more crappy TW in GA's place then.

    If GA is simply going to be a game mode that hands out good gear to those that have Revan, then it's simply a different iteration of the poor top-heavy HSith reward structure. Cool.

    Another reason I will be making my account "available" soon.


    How exactly is TW better? You can just as easily face guilds with 2-3x as many Revans as your guild has in TW.

    People with Revan aren’t being matched with people of lower GP, they are being matched with people who have the same GP but have geared some other character(s) instead of Revan. So I don’t understand that part of your point at all.

    Not all zetas are created equal, that’s true. So the guy in my grouping who decided to zeta Lumi (and is running her under CLS lead in arena!!) should be matched with other people who made similarly silly decisions? Why?

    I understand that you are also upset about the “fluff” issue, but you really have to separate the two questions. Whether GP adequately measures the value of g8 vs g12 is a different issue from whether the matching should take into account the differences in characters. If two people have the same number of g12 characters but one person chose to gear the best characters in the game and the other chose to gear random characters he happens to like, the second person should expect to face and lose to the first because that’s what happens in a competitive game mode when you choose not to make competitive decisions.

    exactly
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    But what it really boils down to is a time vs benefit analysis of wheter it's worth it to change the matchmaking process.

    Now I agree it probably is on the lower side of the time if they just do the ship gp issue. But other options like revamping how gp is calculated is likely further up there.

    And on the benefit side you really need raw data to know how many are effected. The real argument on here is some think it's a big issue while others don't.

    Then finally we also don't knowvwhat else there is for alternatives for the time and effort spent changing matchmaking would be. I have a long list of things I'd like to see more than this. Mostly, new and harder comtent since I'm at end game and run out of challenges. Newer players likely feel differently since they have plenty of stuff to do.

    It's a balancing act on what helps the most and none of us have the information to say definitively what they need to do. So if they change the matchmaking, fine. If they don't fine.

    I agree. But simply adding a "Revan check" or a "number of g12+ toons" check or, if ships are involved, a HT and HMF check, wouldn't be that difficult. And it certainly wouldn't "unbalance" things any more than they already are.

    As I said, if it's WAI and simply intended as another game mode (like HSith) to hand out better gear/rewards to whales, then it's working perfectly. If it's designed to be a fun, competitive game mode for similarly rostered players, then it might need a tweak or two.

    all those things are available ftp except for revan and he's been out long enough that when the event returns he's ftp. If you don't have them that's on you.

    And making it where new toys won't give an advantage will discourage people from buying said toys. So your idea is not going to happen.

    Like I said - my bad. I was operating under the assumption that GA was meant to be a fun and competitive game mode for like-rostered players. Apparently you favor the "hand out more gear/rewards to players who paid for X, Y and Z" in every game mode and event. That's fine. Agree to disagree.

    I thought players that had Revan were already benefiting enough in arena, TW and HSith raids. Apparently CG (and players like you) feel they should be rewarded even more.

    Eventually though, as the game becomes less and less f2p-friendly, the game will cease to exist completely. Whales don't like fighting whales - they like stomping f2p. I get it. Some of my best friends (and those defending this model) are whales. But it's a symbiotic relationship and CG needs to do a better job of maintaining the balance. F2p can't play without whales to pay - but whales won't pay if the guppies all swim to other games either.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Eventually though, as the game becomes less and less f2p-friendly, the game will cease to exist completely. Whales don't like fighting whales - they like stomping f2p. I get it. Some of my best friends (and those defending this model) are whales. But it's a symbiotic relationship and CG needs to do a better job of maintaining the balance. F2p can't play without whales to pay - but whales won't pay if the guppies all swim to other games either.

    I agree. Matchmaking for this mode is terrible. Using GP as a basis ignores many serious differences that have a tremendous impact on a player's ability to compete.

    Several of the serious problems with the current matchmaking include:

    1) Matching players who don't have a current broken meta, like Revan, against those who do is a sure-fire way to anger a segment of the player base.

    2) Secondary speed on mods, which are arguably still the most important determinant of success in fights, are not factored into the matchmaking process at all. Which is incredibly unfair as no amount of money can ensure one will roll decent secondary speed traits.

    3) Gear 12, which adds a huge amount of combat potential to characters, seems to have very little influence on GP compared to many other factors.

    These are just 3 of the main reasons that CG's matchmaking system is unfair and plain not fun for most players. My guild has already had quite a few people quit the game for a couple of reasons. One reason being the sheer ridiculous amount of time the game now demands with the addition of grand arena (a mode which no one I have encountered likes or asked to see). The other reason many have quit is that the game feels more like being bullied with the current matchmaking fiasco and no one wants to feel that sort of anger in their entertainment.
  • I think Grand Arena is one of the greatest additions to the game. I am F2P and I enjoy the challenge of going against stronger opponents. My current opponent had 40 g12 characters to my 19 and I wiped his board. He only cleared one of my territories. He had a better roster, but I had a better strategy, so I won. GA would be boring if I always had the better roster. I like the matchmaking as is.
  • Dk_rek wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    But what it really boils down to is a time vs benefit analysis of wheter it's worth it to change the matchmaking process.

    Now I agree it probably is on the lower side of the time if they just do the ship gp issue. But other options like revamping how gp is calculated is likely further up there.

    And on the benefit side you really need raw data to know how many are effected. The real argument on here is some think it's a big issue while others don't.

    Then finally we also don't knowvwhat else there is for alternatives for the time and effort spent changing matchmaking would be. I have a long list of things I'd like to see more than this. Mostly, new and harder comtent since I'm at end game and run out of challenges. Newer players likely feel differently since they have plenty of stuff to do.

    It's a balancing act on what helps the most and none of us have the information to say definitively what they need to do. So if they change the matchmaking, fine. If they don't fine.

    I agree. But simply adding a "Revan check" or a "number of g12+ toons" check or, if ships are involved, a HT and HMF check, wouldn't be that difficult. And it certainly wouldn't "unbalance" things any more than they already are.

    As I said, if it's WAI and simply intended as another game mode (like HSith) to hand out better gear/rewards to whales, then it's working perfectly. If it's designed to be a fun, competitive game mode for similarly rostered players, then it might need a tweak or two.

    all those things are available ftp except for revan and he's been out long enough that when the event returns he's ftp. If you don't have them that's on you.

    And making it where new toys won't give an advantage will discourage people from buying said toys. So your idea is not going to happen.

    Yeah it does not have to go that far just the ship GP check when no ships

    If i have 2 mil toon GP and so does my opponent and he bas 30 more g12 and all the shiny stuff then hey he earned it i can live with it...

    If he gets 10 -15 extra teams because of the 400-800k difference in ships thats bad... because we never should have been matched in the first place...

    I dont get why its hard to understand for some.... 2 mil vs 2 mil toon gp whatever happens happens
    1.8 mil gp vs 2.4 gp toon because ships imbalance he should have been matched elsewhere

    I'm ok with the 3.2 mil vs 3.2 mil total gp and what ever happens happens.

    If you have that large of a mismatch because of ships that's likely either rare because your opponent did no ships or you put too much into ships.

    Now if they decide to exclude ship gp, that's fine but I don't think it makes the matchmaking inherently unfair any more than letting those with revan be matched with those tgat do not.

    From my bracket in the first 3v3, no fleet GA...

    At approximately 1.5 mill, the Total GP spread used for matchmaking was 1,500 GP (0.001%) but without fleet zones the actual usable GP spread was up to 223k GP (32%)

    % squad GP difference for the 56 potential matches in my bracket:
    > 30%: 2
    25-30%: 4
    20-25%: 2
    15-20%: 14
    10-15%: 10
    5-10%: 14
    < 5%: 10

    So 32 of 56 potential matchups gave one player at least a 10% advantage in usable GP or around 150,000 GP worth of toons.
  • Mzee
    1720 posts Member
    edited January 23
    3v3 is stupid and needs to stop. Game is designed for 5v5, not for 3v3. Every other game mode since inception has been 5 v 5, NOT 3v3. After winning 1, and then losing another I quit this dumb game mode today.
  • CorruptedFlesh
    19 posts Member
    edited January 23
    I think Grand Arena is one of the greatest additions to the game. I am F2P and I enjoy the challenge of going against stronger opponents. My current opponent had 40 g12 characters to my 19 and I wiped his board. He only cleared one of my territories. He had a better roster, but I had a better strategy, so I won. GA would be boring if I always had the better roster. I like the matchmaking as is.

    One of the grand arena main features when it was implemented were "fair" and cool matchmaking and everybody is going have fun. They've somewhat boasted like how good the matachmaking is going to be.
    It is great when your opponent sucks. But when going against someone who is a bit conscious about the game and sets up decent defense, having 300k less in character GP is just game over, no matter the strategy.
    Players who are invested in the ships a bit more are still at a bit of disadvantage, even when there is a ship territory, but it is still possible to get results. I managed to get to 1st and 2nd places in last 5v5 GAs having less character GP and going against Trayas and Revans while having neither. And I've been 7th on previous 3v3, thought it was my mistakes and didn't bother, it is 3v3 again and I am getting screwed hard, so I've decided to dig a bit, all of my current opponents have 85k to 300k more character GP which translates to a lot more decently geared characters. Yes, we have the same total GP, because I am more invested into ships, but during this 3v3 I can shove all of my ships roster up my a
  • Mzee
    1720 posts Member
    Why do you have to ruin a great game mode with a stupid 3v3? Why do you have to ruin a great TW game mode with banning a ton of characters, and adding ridiculous bonuses so Ewoks take like 20 teams to take down? My guild won, but it is still annoying. You didn't learn from the invincible Mace Windu gimmick? I like mixing things up, but you always take great game modes and find a way to screw it up. Character, and faction bonuses are a neat idea, but you frequently make them so overpowered that it just isn't fun.
  • Mzee
    1720 posts Member
    Dagobond wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Eventually though, as the game becomes less and less f2p-friendly, the game will cease to exist completely. Whales don't like fighting whales - they like stomping f2p. I get it. Some of my best friends (and those defending this model) are whales. But it's a symbiotic relationship and CG needs to do a better job of maintaining the balance. F2p can't play without whales to pay - but whales won't pay if the guppies all swim to other games either.

    I agree. Matchmaking for this mode is terrible. Using GP as a basis ignores many serious differences that have a tremendous impact on a player's ability to compete.

    Several of the serious problems with the current matchmaking include:

    1) Matching players who don't have a current broken meta, like Revan, against those who do is a sure-fire way to anger a segment of the player base.

    2) Secondary speed on mods, which are arguably still the most important determinant of success in fights, are not factored into the matchmaking process at all. Which is incredibly unfair as no amount of money can ensure one will roll decent secondary speed traits.

    3) Gear 12, which adds a huge amount of combat potential to characters, seems to have very little influence on GP compared to many other factors.

    These are just 3 of the main reasons that CG's matchmaking system is unfair and plain not fun for most players. My guild has already had quite a few people quit the game for a couple of reasons. One reason being the sheer ridiculous amount of time the game now demands with the addition of grand arena (a mode which no one I have encountered likes or asked to see). The other reason many have quit is that the game feels more like being bullied with the current matchmaking fiasco and no one wants to feel that sort of anger in their entertainment.

    Agreed. The matchmaking is broken. GP so far seems to be the best way to match players, but it is still very inaccurate. I don't have Revan, yet I have 4 people in my segment with him, and I find that very irritating. (I am also boycotting this 3v3 from now on and not bothering to set defenses since I hate 3v3)

    The matchmaking punishes players who have filled out their roster, which is contradictory to how they have been encouraging players for the last few years. If you gear up lesser characters to boost the GP for Territory Battles like many have then you are at a severe disadvantage. Players who leave all the lesser characters at level 1, and only gear up their main teams are at a heavy advantage. Removing all the mods of lesser characters would help, but what a waste of credits and seems counter-intuitive.

    Ships aren't even used in this particular grand arena, but it still counts towards GP, which is silly. I regret leveling up all my pilots and modding them now as it inflates my GP, and I don't want to have to waste credits to remove all the mods, and I wish I left all my useless pilots at level 1 now.

    Mods are hidden GP, and makes a huge difference, but I don't have as much issue with matchmaking ignoring this, but perhaps an algorithm could be used to take it into account.

    It is an excellent game mode, but from what I have observed after the first time the community overwhelmingly hated 3v3, yet they keep doing it. I don't get it...
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Mzee wrote: »
    3v3 is stupid and needs to stop. Game is designed for 5v5, not for 3v3. Every other game mode since inception has been 5 v 5, NOT 3v3. After winning 1, and then losing another I quit this dumb game mode today.

    Most teams are built on a foundation of 3 toons. Once you figure out how they function in the 3v3 setting, you can even take our full 5 toon teams with only 3 toons. Bast, Yoda, and a tank. Jango, Boba, cad. The triumvirate. Ventress, Daka, zombie. Cls, han, chewie. There's so many examples of 3 key toons, and two replaceable. Why not do 3v3?
  • Sewpot
    1099 posts Member
    GP should not be the deciding factor for GA. It should matching from 6dot mods and zeta’s. Thats a better way to make matches way more even.
  • Mzee
    1720 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    Mzee wrote: »
    3v3 is stupid and needs to stop. Game is designed for 5v5, not for 3v3. Every other game mode since inception has been 5 v 5, NOT 3v3. After winning 1, and then losing another I quit this dumb game mode today.

    Most teams are built on a foundation of 3 toons. Once you figure out how they function in the 3v3 setting, you can even take our full 5 toon teams with only 3 toons. Bast, Yoda, and a tank. Jango, Boba, cad. The triumvirate. Ventress, Daka, zombie. Cls, han, chewie. There's so many examples of 3 key toons, and two replaceable. Why not do 3v3?

    Because teams like JTR that are used as a solid counter to Bastille do not work in 3v3. Some teams do work in a 3v3 mode, but many do not.
  • Ultra
    4239 posts Member
    edited January 23
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »

    I've seen people facing Revan teams in Grand Arena without having a Revan of their own and still win
    Post a legit pic of the rosters and final standings and I'll apoligize to CG and admit that the match up algorithm is working splendidly.
    bx2c1zsp07rl.jpeg
    8tg73jku42pd.jpeg
    sblawum16ukt.jpeg


    EDIT: Give me a sec to remove the names

    From the current GA; There are only two people with Revan, Mol and UltraZero, and I didn’t face him at all. The other three people with 1 win each don’t have JKR
  • Gannon wrote: »
    Mzee wrote: »
    3v3 is stupid and needs to stop. Game is designed for 5v5, not for 3v3. Every other game mode since inception has been 5 v 5, NOT 3v3. After winning 1, and then losing another I quit this dumb game mode today.

    Most teams are built on a foundation of 3 toons. Once you figure out how they function in the 3v3 setting, you can even take our full 5 toon teams with only 3 toons. Bast, Yoda, and a tank. Jango, Boba, cad. The triumvirate. Ventress, Daka, zombie. Cls, han, chewie. There's so many examples of 3 key toons, and two replaceable. Why not do 3v3?
    Yep, they work, but it doesn't matter when opponents have from 5 to 15 more decently geared up characters, because you are more invested into ships. Very fun to play. You either run out of geared toons or one mistake and you are never going to get enough points. So much fun...
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Mzee wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Mzee wrote: »
    3v3 is stupid and needs to stop. Game is designed for 5v5, not for 3v3. Every other game mode since inception has been 5 v 5, NOT 3v3. After winning 1, and then losing another I quit this dumb game mode today.

    Most teams are built on a foundation of 3 toons. Once you figure out how they function in the 3v3 setting, you can even take our full 5 toon teams with only 3 toons. Bast, Yoda, and a tank. Jango, Boba, cad. The triumvirate. Ventress, Daka, zombie. Cls, han, chewie. There's so many examples of 3 key toons, and two replaceable. Why not do 3v3?

    Because teams like JTR that are used as a solid counter to Bastille do not work in 3v3. Some teams do work in a 3v3 mode, but many do not.

    Jtr is a terrible counter for bastilla, even 5v5. Basty will wipe them out under ai 9/10 times.
    But my point stands, the choir of that team is jtr, bb8 and r2 usually. It works the same against 3v3 teams as 5v5, as long as it's a good counter to begin with
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    But what it really boils down to is a time vs benefit analysis of wheter it's worth it to change the matchmaking process.

    Now I agree it probably is on the lower side of the time if they just do the ship gp issue. But other options like revamping how gp is calculated is likely further up there.

    And on the benefit side you really need raw data to know how many are effected. The real argument on here is some think it's a big issue while others don't.

    Then finally we also don't knowvwhat else there is for alternatives for the time and effort spent changing matchmaking would be. I have a long list of things I'd like to see more than this. Mostly, new and harder comtent since I'm at end game and run out of challenges. Newer players likely feel differently since they have plenty of stuff to do.

    It's a balancing act on what helps the most and none of us have the information to say definitively what they need to do. So if they change the matchmaking, fine. If they don't fine.

    I agree. But simply adding a "Revan check" or a "number of g12+ toons" check or, if ships are involved, a HT and HMF check, wouldn't be that difficult. And it certainly wouldn't "unbalance" things any more than they already are.

    As I said, if it's WAI and simply intended as another game mode (like HSith) to hand out better gear/rewards to whales, then it's working perfectly. If it's designed to be a fun, competitive game mode for similarly rostered players, then it might need a tweak or two.

    all those things are available ftp except for revan and he's been out long enough that when the event returns he's ftp. If you don't have them that's on you.

    And making it where new toys won't give an advantage will discourage people from buying said toys. So your idea is not going to happen.

    Like I said - my bad. I was operating under the assumption that GA was meant to be a fun and competitive game mode for like-rostered players. Apparently you favor the "hand out more gear/rewards to players who paid for X, Y and Z" in every game mode and event. That's fine. Agree to disagree.

    I thought players that had Revan were already benefiting enough in arena, TW and HSith raids. Apparently CG (and players like you) feel they should be rewarded even more.

    Eventually though, as the game becomes less and less f2p-friendly, the game will cease to exist completely. Whales don't like fighting whales - they like stomping f2p. I get it. Some of my best friends (and those defending this model) are whales. But it's a symbiotic relationship and CG needs to do a better job of maintaining the balance. F2p can't play without whales to pay - but whales won't pay if the guppies all swim to other games either.

    You can compete ftp. I take top spots in both arenas and all raids and haven't spent a cent.

    But I disagree with your premise. Part of the fun of the game is building a roster and seeing how it compares with others. If you matchmake to the point of facing identical rosters, then that removes any incentive to improve your roster.
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    But what it really boils down to is a time vs benefit analysis of wheter it's worth it to change the matchmaking process.

    Now I agree it probably is on the lower side of the time if they just do the ship gp issue. But other options like revamping how gp is calculated is likely further up there.

    And on the benefit side you really need raw data to know how many are effected. The real argument on here is some think it's a big issue while others don't.

    Then finally we also don't knowvwhat else there is for alternatives for the time and effort spent changing matchmaking would be. I have a long list of things I'd like to see more than this. Mostly, new and harder comtent since I'm at end game and run out of challenges. Newer players likely feel differently since they have plenty of stuff to do.

    It's a balancing act on what helps the most and none of us have the information to say definitively what they need to do. So if they change the matchmaking, fine. If they don't fine.

    I agree. But simply adding a "Revan check" or a "number of g12+ toons" check or, if ships are involved, a HT and HMF check, wouldn't be that difficult. And it certainly wouldn't "unbalance" things any more than they already are.

    As I said, if it's WAI and simply intended as another game mode (like HSith) to hand out better gear/rewards to whales, then it's working perfectly. If it's designed to be a fun, competitive game mode for similarly rostered players, then it might need a tweak or two.

    all those things are available ftp except for revan and he's been out long enough that when the event returns he's ftp. If you don't have them that's on you.

    And making it where new toys won't give an advantage will discourage people from buying said toys. So your idea is not going to happen.

    Yeah it does not have to go that far just the ship GP check when no ships

    If i have 2 mil toon GP and so does my opponent and he bas 30 more g12 and all the shiny stuff then hey he earned it i can live with it...

    If he gets 10 -15 extra teams because of the 400-800k difference in ships thats bad... because we never should have been matched in the first place...

    I dont get why its hard to understand for some.... 2 mil vs 2 mil toon gp whatever happens happens
    1.8 mil gp vs 2.4 gp toon because ships imbalance he should have been matched elsewhere

    I'm ok with the 3.2 mil vs 3.2 mil total gp and what ever happens happens.

    If you have that large of a mismatch because of ships that's likely either rare because your opponent did no ships or you put too much into ships.

    Now if they decide to exclude ship gp, that's fine but I don't think it makes the matchmaking inherently unfair any more than letting those with revan be matched with those tgat do not.

    From my bracket in the first 3v3, no fleet GA...

    At approximately 1.5 mill, the Total GP spread used for matchmaking was 1,500 GP (0.001%) but without fleet zones the actual usable GP spread was up to 223k GP (32%)

    % squad GP difference for the 56 potential matches in my bracket:
    > 30%: 2
    25-30%: 4
    20-25%: 2
    15-20%: 14
    10-15%: 10
    5-10%: 14
    < 5%: 10

    So 32 of 56 potential matchups gave one player at least a 10% advantage in usable GP or around 150,000 GP worth of toons.

    ok and a 10% difference doesn't mean anything. That could be 10% more useless fluff. And even if it's not, it's not insurmountable. The fact that they are using a single factor instead of 10 or 12 factors in matchmaking means that they don't desire perfect matching. But matchmaking that is somewhat close but encourages you to build your roster to do better long-term.
  • Ultra
    4239 posts Member
    In the event of a draw, the player with the higher GP wins
  • Please explain to me how dark ronin gets the win yet it is clearly a draw ?
  • Higher gp should have no standing on final outcome
  • Ultra
    4239 posts Member
    Topcatv2 wrote: »
    Higher gp should have no standing on final outcome
    Should've tried to put up a fight then ;)
  • If i had time to waste, sure... why not... ga, tw, tb are boring... cg come up with something that is actually engaging
  • Hey i have an idea... battles are not offense defense... it is both... how bout you allow the teams we choose to do both instead of sitting em on the bench?
  • Ultra
    4239 posts Member
    Topcatv2 wrote: »
    If i had time to waste, sure... why not... ga, tw, tb are boring... cg come up with something that is actually engaging
    >I don't want to play or do anything but I want devs to make sure I win
  • No ultra, that is not the point... it should never be gp based at all... if neither players did attack and placed the same number of teams... it is a draw... size of teams maybe but nowhere is that been mentioned as part of their calculations for ga... so my question is valid... it is a clear draw... zero attempts to attack from either player...

    But tbh these events are seriously not engaging... if you want us to spend time playing find a way to allow us to score points on both offense and defense with a single team... no battle is ever like an nfl football game... the only sport in the world that has separate teams...
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