Will The Separatist Rework Be Meta Defying?

Replies

  • GG isnt hard to get, most people do actually have him already. However, having a toon starred and geared are 2 very different things, as seen by the recent legendaries where you needed g11+ on characters to even have a chance. I hope they go that route, buying gear can also make a lot of revenue.
  • I remember at least five significant reworks and all of them were different:

    1) Ewoks - coming from the "trash" category, they became "valid for some aspects" (especially if maxed), but nowhere close to meta defining

    2) Nightsisters - coming from the "trash" to a very powerful faction, close to "meta defining" and useful in almost every possible aspect of the game

    3) Vader and Palpatine rework - "Meta defining" straigh off the bat, and for relatively long

    4) GMY - Not meta defining until... arrival of Bastilla

    5) Bounty Hunters - form "barely viable" to the solid force in almost every aspect of the game except for the Arena.

    Where will GG and separatist droid fit - it is hard to tell. But it is almost guaranteed that it is going to be at least a force to be reckon with...

    If you ask me for my opionion - I would love to see the paper/scissors/rock system, with Grevious being Jedi killer, Revan - Traya and CLS killer, , Traya - Grevious killer , CLS - Traya and Grevious killer etc..

    It would benefit payers with the wide roster, not the "narrow meta" chasers, switching mods for the "flavor of the month".

    But that is just me...

    This is what I have been hoping for.
  • I'm hoping for a strong anti-jedi and anti-NS kit. Something that brings Revan back down a notch, but doesn't fully replace his dominance. But I fully expect this possible droid meta to be overshadowed by the darth revan or Mallak that is coming.
  • Gifafi
    6017 posts Member
    it better not be meta-defining, I worked too hard to get here, but if it is, I'll...well....keep playing I guess?
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Ultra
    11452 posts Moderator
    Reyalp wrote: »
    There's no money in GG, B2 or Magnaguard and no one is likely whaling on two marquee droids with Darth Revan on the horizon. So unlikely to be meta defining. This is just filler material to get the community to shut up about GG rework.

    At best he'll be a good team in TW or GA, maybe in SithRaid
    To me, toons / squads that excel in Grand Arena / TW are better than toons that excel in squad arena. I think GG teams will be a game changer in the sense it'll provide a powerful advantage in GA especially now that Revan is diluted
  • Kokie
    1338 posts Member
    Yeah time to make Revan disappear......a second rate character who doesnt hold a candle to Yoda or Kenobi needs to go away. Plus I feel like I'm going blind when I enter arena and see nothing but a white robed cult leader in every single spot
  • JaggedJ
    1352 posts Member
    I just got Revan and now comfortably finish top 10 every day.

    But I'm absolutely sick of Revan mirror matches to the point where I couldn't be bothered doing arena today and it's only been a week.

    It wouldn't benefit me at all but anything to bring variety back is a good thing.
  • For all u know GG gives GK a new skill:
    “If General Kenobi is on the opposing team, he gains a new skill: Hello there

    Hello there: General Kenobi takes out a blaster and instantly defeats General Grievous.

    Haha! good one! Or perhaps to make it more balanced, "Hello there" only activates when only GG and GK are left standing in their respective arena teams.
  • Kokie wrote: »
    Yeah time to make Revan disappear......a second rate character who doesnt hold a candle to Yoda or Kenobi needs to go away. Plus I feel like I'm going blind when I enter arena and see nothing but a white robed cult leader in every single spot

    Um, he kinda single handedly won the entire sith vs republic war. (in addition to winning the Mandalorian war)
    Did yoda do that? Kenobi? If my memory serves, they were both present and helpless when the sith took over the galaxy..
  • Revan_Presence
    65 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Um, he kinda single handedly won the entire sith vs republic war. (in addition to winning the Mandalorian war)
    I really adore the character, but what you are saying is not completey correct. During Jedi Civil War, Revan acted as something like a commander of special operations team.
    Yes, he've accomplished wide series of critical tasks such as: sabotaging enemy's main war production facility, assasinating a number of enemy war leaders, obliteration of sith training academy and etc. And no, he never won this war all by himself. There were whole the Republic and Jedi Order that kept most of enemy fleet and army busy so that Revan could keep doing his thing. The fact that you can only see the picture from his single point of view in this game doesn't mean that everybody else in Old Republic were just derping around.
    Basically, it would be like saying that Frodo defeated Sauron all by himslef.
    Did yoda do that? Kenobi? If my memory serves, they were both present and helpless when the sith took over the galaxy..
    They weren't really weak compared to their enemy. Palpatine's stealth action and intrigue granted him an upper hand. He played this card well, that's it. Don't forget that it took whole Separatist and ARC armies with a few force-user turncoats on top of it to bring the entire Jedi Order down for good.
  • Why are you people arguing about canon when it comes to this game? There was a time when Poggle the Lesser was a viable leader - or Qui-Gon Jinn, a Jedi who died to a half-rate Sith.
    Personally, so long as Grievous can counter Revan/Bastilla, and the Separatist droids aid in taking down other meta and near-meta (ie Nightsisters), but they can be taken down by already existing factions (so there won't be a need for another Revan Fiasco) I'll be happy
    #MakeTuskensGreat
    tenor.gif
  • Revan_Presence
    65 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Alijar1 wrote: »
    Personally, so long as Grievous can counter Revan/Bastilla
    That would be an absolute nonsense.
    Grievous should counter Nightsisters, as he actually did in canon. But NOT the squad with toughest Jedi of all time.
    Typical JKR teams does include GMY and/or GK. GK was a canon hardcounter for GG, and GMY is even stronger as a Jedi.
    There are a number of people around who bothered farming 11 toons (one of them from HAAT Raid) to assemble a team with two legendaries and one raid toon.
    You never did that.
    Because, ugh, why bother if one day you can simply step forward and say "Alright, they've had it for long enough, now devs pls make these easy-peasy obtainable toons stomp that cool raid/legendaries like Mac Truck, and I'll be happy, and btw I don't care it's against canon".
    Great way of thinking, dude.
  • Alijar1
    381 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Alijar1 wrote: »
    Personally, so long as Grievous can counter Revan/Bastilla
    That would be an absolute nonsense.
    It's a current meta, and each meta needs a counter. Revan counters Treya, Treya counters Palpatine, Palpatine counters Rebels, and so on. If GG counters Revan, then the rest of the Separatist Droids can counter the rest - B2 can quite easily counter GMY if it manages to land a Buff Immunity, and if it doesn't (and GMY doesn't have a Zeta on his Battle Meditation or the B2 rework can go through foresight) he can just dispel all of the buffs he gives.
    Besides, you missed an essential part of my point - the game doesn't give a **** about what's canon or not. Why does R2D2 counter the Darth Maul lead teams, despite never meeting in canon? Because the game needed a counter to the evasion meta.
    Although from your name, I'm sensing a bias.
    #MakeTuskensGreat
    tenor.gif
  • Um, he kinda single handedly won the entire sith vs republic war. (in addition to winning the Mandalorian war)
    I really adore the character, but what you are saying is not completey correct. During Jedi Civil War, Revan acted as something like a commander of special operations team.
    Yes, he've accomplished wide series of critical tasks such as: sabotaging enemy's main war production facility, assasinating a number of enemy war leaders, obliteration of sith training academy and etc. And no, he never won this war all by himself. There were whole the Republic and Jedi Order that kept most of enemy fleet and army busy so that Revan could keep doing his thing. The fact that you can only see the picture from his single point of view in this game doesn't mean that everybody else in Old Republic were just derping around.
    Basically, it would be like saying that Frodo defeated Sauron all by himslef.
    Did yoda do that? Kenobi? If my memory serves, they were both present and helpless when the sith took over the galaxy..
    They weren't really weak compared to their enemy. Palpatine's stealth action and intrigue granted him an upper hand. He played this card well, that's it. Don't forget that it took whole Separatist and ARC armies with a few force-user turncoats on top of it to bring the entire Jedi Order down for good.

    I accept your points on Revans role in the sith vs republic war question.
    Onboarding their primary factory and using battle meditation was quite crucial, but yes, you also needed the republic army to take advantage of it.

    Regarding yoda and kenobi, however, i disagree. They both attempted to duel the sith lord, and both failed. Even their savior/messiah luke failed his duel.
    Revan, however, easily beat the dark lord (Malak), despite Malak being surrounded by dark force strengthener devices.
  • Grievious will be a jedi killer, therefore Grievious squad will counter Revan's squad

    General Grievous + New Droids + Separatist Rework = Revan Slayers
    That would be super stupid.
    1. General Grievous, a cyborg that got pretty much soloed by a single jedi in canon... As a counter for a best jedi there is?
    2. Reworking the worst-of-the-worst faction ever to be a hard counter for the best jedi team so far, really?
    3. Jedi were an easy prey for ages. This faction was pretty much useless until Bastila became f2p. Now, it's only been like half a year since Jedi started to be competitive. Sure, why not just drop them back into abyss? That's one great way to punish all who whaled to get JKR the first time, and all those who've put an effort to get him the second time.
    4. Actually, if droids were so good then why would good old Palps need Vader to bring Jedi Order down?
    If you want a hard counter for Revan, it's Emperor Vitiate. He's kind of a self-made God of Death in Star Wars Universe. And the one who actually defeated Revan. Like, twice.

    Palp used every instrument available for him. Vader was just a final piece to his solution.

    And the words about GG? Omg. GG has a wide collection of jedi lightsabers who killed by GG. And jedis tried very hard to put him down but all fail until Kenobi finally defeated him after countless tries.
    Check my collection. Contact me at Discord: zegene#1773
  • GG was a ridiculously difficult farm in this game for some of us in the early days. Anyone who tells you otherwise clearly didn't farm him.

    Personally Ive been waiting 2.5 years for this rework. I sure hope he can take down revan.
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
    CosmicJ wrote: »
    GG was a ridiculously difficult farm in this game for some of us in the early days. Anyone who tells you otherwise clearly didn't farm him.

    Personally Ive been waiting 2.5 years for this rework. I sure hope he can take down revan.

    He still is a difficult farm, plus there is more useful stuff in the shard shop, and the recent addition of G12 was obviously meant to slow the farm even further. Which is why I think that many newer players haven't bothered farming him.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    This is a strong maybe. As always the next meta has less to do with what the current meta is than how well they will do on defense.

    It's almost without doubt they will have some aspects of their kits built to counter revan. So at a minimum we will get another option in arena and a viable counter elsewhere
  • kalidor
    2121 posts Member
    I'm certainly hoping that grev can take out revan squads, because with the second round of revans, arena has become quite stale. Where there used to be traya, cls, and revan, now there's just solid revan. Doesn't help the the falcon has done the same thing to fleet (at least there you can see what's going on without half the screen green).

    If greivous can topple revan but is weaker against sith, ns, or cls, then hopefully we'll see more variety return to arena as revan players juggle various squads to counter him. That seems like a healthy correction to me.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
    kalidor wrote: »
    If greivous can topple revan but is weaker against sith, ns, or cls, then hopefully we'll see more variety return to arena as revan players juggle various squads to counter him. That seems like a healthy correction to me.

    That would be the ideal outcome, though it would make Traya the go-to defense team again. But Traya isn't that hard to beat.
    And then Darth Revan comes and smashes everything to pieces, starting the cycle anew...
  • kalidor wrote: »
    I'm certainly hoping that grev can take out revan squads, because with the second round of revans, arena has become quite stale. Where there used to be traya, cls, and revan, now there's just solid revan. Doesn't help the the falcon has done the same thing to fleet (at least there you can see what's going on without half the screen green).

    If greivous can topple revan but is weaker against sith, ns, or cls, then hopefully we'll see more variety return to arena as revan players juggle various squads to counter him. That seems like a healthy correction to me.

    Yes (and i have a maxed Revan) and i Hope palpamobil will do the same rebalance for fleets since Falcon (even at easy 5* unlock) warped fleets Like Revan (which deserved at moneywise at his First round).

    I really hope Grievous and Friends are a real contender soon.
  • Well, traditionally very strong jedi were always opposed by very strong sith. Of course, the books have little to do with the game. Still, Traya led sith can do well against Revan, are people saying it is a good idea to make Traya (hardest raid that encouraged people to spend to get specific well performing teams for each stage) and Revan (who together with Chewie was the greatest cash collection char for the developers) obsolete by promoting a toon we get full for free? I understand that those sand people and jawa toons may look like the most desired thing to beat everything for somebody, but actually showing everyone that spending any money is the worst you can even do, would result in the game dying off very, very fast. I would not spend a cent if all newly released toons get smashed in 2 months by a reworked old-time toon I farm for free, right?
  • Altazarus wrote: »
    Well, traditionally very strong jedi were always opposed by very strong sith. Of course, the books have little to do with the game. Still, Traya led sith can do well against Revan, are people saying it is a good idea to make Traya (hardest raid that encouraged people to spend to get specific well performing teams for each stage) and Revan (who together with Chewie was the greatest cash collection char for the developers) obsolete by promoting a toon we get full for free? I understand that those sand people and jawa toons may look like the most desired thing to beat everything for somebody, but actually showing everyone that spending any money is the worst you can even do, would result in the game dying off very, very fast. I would not spend a cent if all newly released toons get smashed in 2 months by a reworked old-time toon I farm for free, right?

    Players bought B2 once or Jango (or aurra, embo for a BH RAID Team which now is useless with Revan or C3). Game still continues and CG earn a Lot of money. Spending once doesnt means you profit endless times (hello Mobile Games). Its Up to you to spend again If Meta changes.

    Newer or midgame Players maybe have not everyone FTP Farm or the Gear (very true for seperatist droids, which means Money for CG If they do it right).
  • Georgemi6 wrote: »
    First of all, Grievous wasn’t a pushover in terms of killing Jedi, and revan wasn’t the best Jedi there was. (That would be yoda, or in legends, GM Luke). Grievous was regarded as the greatest Jedi killer of all time behind Vader. (and grievous isn’t even force sensitive)
    GG was killing Jedi who forgot how to fight after centuries of peace. As of the Old Rpublic era, there were Great Hyperspace War, Great Sith War, Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Civil War. Learn canon and try judging by the enemies, at least. GG was killed by a single jedi, Obi-Wan Kenobi, who almost got smashed by Jango Fett, the single mandalorian. Revan led a war against whole army of Mando'ade and single-handedly defeated their War Leader, Mand'alor the Ultimate. As of Yoda and Luke, they both got defeated by Emperor Palpatine. And Palpatine is nothing if compared to Emperor Vitiate, the one who never needed no fleet, no tool like Death Star, and no army but himself to wipe out every living thing on entire planet.
    Georgemi6 wrote: »
    Secondly, the Jedi have had their time in the sun, being pretty much unchallenged in every part of the game since revan dropped. Separatists have never had any glory (except B2, and the bugs in fleet) and if they are a counter to Jedi, that doesn’t mean they’ll counter sith, rebels, NS, resistance, BH, and whatever other meta or semi meta teams are out there.
    You are so wrong. The sith ruled over the arena for centuries, which isn't really canon-wise. In canon, no sith reign lasted long after being caught in Jedi iron sights.
    Georgemi6 wrote: »
    In short, the GG and the seps are worthy of being a counter to Jedi, and although they might be a foil to the dominance of revan in arena, that doesn’t mean they’ll eclipse everyone.
    GG should be reworked in order to be competetive against jedi teams. But not to the point where he'll be able to stomp Revan or Bastila lead. That would be such a nonsense. Bastila's battle meditation were strongest in the entire Star Wars history, and Revan was the greatest jedi War Leader. Absolutely no droid should be able to top it.

    Ugh.... we’re really doing this? Alright here goes nothing...

    1st paragraph: Since you speak of the conquests or revan as fact, I will assume you are using legends continuity. Your argument about GG losing to Kenobi is moot, because mace windu himself stated that kenobi was the only Jedi that could defeat grievous, not because obiwan was better at attacking, but because he was the physical embodiment of the defensive form of lightsaber combat, form 3 soresu. Grievous was attacking 20 times a second against obi wan, but his defense was so utterly impenetrable that Grievous couldn’t touch him.

    And I don’t know why you are talking about jango and mand’alor the ultimate in your comparison, because for all we know, jango could’ve been the better fighter of the 2 (he himself was mand’alor at the time, and also killed 6 Jedi with his bare hands in front of count dooku). And in his fight with kenobi, they were evenly matched, and only really won because boba helped him out in the slave 1 a bunch (and even still all he did was make obi wan fall off a building, which he easily survived). And if we’re really gonna get specific, this is Obi wan in attack of the clones, and the one that fought grievous had 3 more years of experience.

    As for Luke and yoda, they are more powerful than revan. If you noticed I said GM Luke, meaning grand master Luke, aka the person George Lucas himself said was the most powerful Jedi of all time. And about Luke losing to Palpatine, Luke had just become a Jedi, and also didn’t want to fight any more after he threw his lightsaber after defeating Vader.

    And the worst mistake in your argument is comparing Palpatine to vitiate. Yoda lost to Palpatine, yes, but that was only because Palpatine was the strongest sith the galaxy had ever known. In the novelisation of ROTS, yoda thinks during the fight with Palpatine something like “I am the Jedi orders greatest warrior, but my light is nothing to the darkness that this sith represents.” Sidious would destroy vitiate. Vitiate was skilled yes, but his highest power came from sith magic and other tricks. Sidious was not only the best lightsaber duelist in the galaxy (depending on whether you believe he threw the fight with windu or not) but his force powers were also only second to anakin’s. They go over this a bit more in the plagueis novel.

    Paragraph 2: I can’t tell if you understood my argument. I meant the Jedi in the arena, not in cannon. Plus, Grievous isn’t force sensitive as I’m sure you know, which means he isn’t a sith. He was made to do one thing, kill Jedi (and he’s also pretty good at killing night sisters too) so if there’s something he should be able to do in arena, it should be that.

    Paragraph 3: I see you agree that grievous should be reworked to be competative against competative jedi teams. I’m glad we can find some common ground. But you said he shouldn’t be able to “stomp revan or bastilla lead.” What other competative Jedi leaders are there? GMY? GK? Qui gon? Yoda isn’t nearly as effective as Bastilla or revan, and was obsolete as a leader after bastilla dropped right after his rework. GK lead died when JTR was introduced. QGJ hasn’t been used since early 2017.

    And you say bastilla’s battle meditation would be effective against grievous in a straight fight. “In order to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you mast have fear, surprise, and intimidation on your side.” -count dooku. Grievous didn’t give the Jedi time to think when he fought them, much less time to run back to a Star ship to hide and meditate.

    Revan is not the best Jedi. I will concede that he may have been the best “war leader,” however a 5v5 battle hardly translates to a war. These kinds of battles are grievous’s bread and butter, especially if the enemy have never fought against or even heard of him before.

    In fact, I don’t even know why we’re having this debate. This game has never been accurate to Star Wars cannon. I guess what it comes down to is passion. You revan fanboys are so obsessed with an old video game character that you refuse to accept it when simple things like balancing and reworks happen and taint the image of your dear revan senpai, or your waifu bastilla (or you do dumb things like call grievous a droid). I guarantee that if sith revan or malak was released as a counter, you wouldn’t even protest.

    If grievous can beat revan in arena, it’ll just be better for the health of the game. People will be happy, Order will be restored, and the most requested rework in the entire game will be fulfilled.
  • For all u know GG gives GK a new skill:
    “If General Kenobi is on the opposing team, he gains a new skill: Hello there

    Hello there: General Kenobi takes out a blaster and instantly defeats General Grievous.

    Let this happen plz.
  • Kokie wrote: »
    Yeah time to make Revan disappear......a second rate character who doesnt hold a candle to Yoda or Kenobi needs to go away. Plus I feel like I'm going blind when I enter arena and see nothing but a white robed cult leader in every single spot

    Um, he kinda single handedly won the entire sith vs republic war. (in addition to winning the Mandalorian war)
    Did yoda do that? Kenobi? If my memory serves, they were both present and helpless when the sith took over the galaxy..

    Seeing as, in canon, we don't know anything about those wars, he didn't do that either.
  • Georgemi6 wrote: »
    (or you do dumb things like call grievous a droid).

    Even the game calls him a droid.

  • Ephran wrote: »
    Kokie wrote: »
    Yeah time to make Revan disappear......a second rate character who doesnt hold a candle to Yoda or Kenobi needs to go away. Plus I feel like I'm going blind when I enter arena and see nothing but a white robed cult leader in every single spot

    Um, he kinda single handedly won the entire sith vs republic war. (in addition to winning the Mandalorian war)
    Did yoda do that? Kenobi? If my memory serves, they were both present and helpless when the sith took over the galaxy..

    Seeing as, in canon, we don't know anything about those wars, he didn't do that either.

    Screw canon. That gave us TLJ.
  • Georgemi6 wrote: »
    and the most requested rework in the entire game will be fulfilled.

    Is Mace finally being made usable?

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