If the force is separate to magic, magic still exists in the SW universe in the form of the Nightsisters.
With in the SW universe, magic is a "primitive" term used to describe the force, especially for the NS. They are classified as a DS group, so they would have no issue tapping into aspects of the force some would consider... unnatural.
Talzin seems to think that the force and her magic are separate - "I am not a natural Force wielder like the Jedi or Sith. I use dark magick to achieve power."
Though from looking at Wookieepedia, "Magick is a living thing. It arises from blood and trees and mist. It flows through your veins already, but we will reshape you to channel it.", so it is very similar to the force.
Talzin seems to think that the force and her magic are separate - "I am not a natural Force wielder like the Jedi or Sith. I use dark magick to achieve power."
Though from looking at Wookieepedia, "Magick is a living thing. It arises from blood and trees and mist. It flows through your veins already, but we will reshape you to channel it.", so it is very similar to the force.
The part I am focusing on in her quote is natural force wielder like the jedi or sith. Jedi don't use their power for selfish reasons, especially to prevent the natural flow of life, like stopping people from dying. The sith, although I wouldn't call nihilus or sion natural force users, but since they are not canon, they don't count. The only sith said to achieve power over death is Plagueis and that didn't stop him from dying. Now for Talzin, she was able to use the force to create zombies and there were spirits in the show Rebels, both of which wouldn't be naturally occurring entities. She did tap into the force, bending it to her will to make such... creatures "live" again.
Aren't Night Sisters connected to the Dark Side of the force, or is that the only force available on Dathomir?
They are dark side users. Actually they are one of the few that the sith were afraid of, if I remember correctly. That is why Dooku was sent to wipe them out. All of them. Dooku had an agreement with Talzin for a long time, and Talzin poisoned Dooku. The rest is Clone Wars history.
Doing some Google searches, there is no clear line between the force and Talzin's magicks, so it is unclear if there is a clear distinction, though the NS could be seen as using the DS of the force.
Aside from the NS, are there any other potential forms of magic? Ewoks reviving other Ewoks? Sith Alchemy (that might just be the force again)? The World between Worlds?
Doing some Google searches, there is no clear line between the force and Talzin's magicks, so it is unclear if there is a clear distinction, though the NS could be seen as using the DS of the force.
Aside from the NS, are there any other potential forms of magic? Ewoks reviving other Ewoks? Sith Alchemy (that might just be the force again)? The World between Worlds?
I don't know about this world between worlds, but just because there is no clear line between the force and magic, does not mean that they are not the same thing. Look at how advanced species with space travel capabilities treat primitive species in Star Trek. The primitives are left to develop their culture to the point where they can achieve space exploration. Similarly it wouldn't surprise me if the GR would do something similar.
I'll take the Force is magic to those who don't have it. For those that do, they understand a certain amount of "science" behind it.
Perhaps in the Star Wars universe, and ours, everything is technically magic. We're just using terms to cluster certain facts into categories. Once we master certain skills and basics, it's less magical.
I'm theorizing the Force has many ways to manipulate it to do certain things. Jedi/Sith are opposites of the same coin that uses the same instruction manuals. They are aware of each others' function and results, and choose to, or not use. NS are separate as they use a difference set of instruction manuals, thus would be foreign to those who follow the Jedi/Sith's sets of rules.
A cigarette lighter to someone in 1700s is magic, as they used a match. But that same match to someone in the 700s would be magic, as they used some sort of torch....etc etc etc.
Just some random thoughts...
When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
Started mid-FEB 2017, and not trying to reach the top.
I'll take the Force is magic to those who don't have it. For those that do, they understand a certain amount of "science" behind it.
Perhaps in the Star Wars universe, and ours, everything is technically magic. We're just using terms to cluster certain facts into categories. Once we master certain skills and basics, it's less magical.
I'm theorizing the Force has many ways to manipulate it to do certain things. Jedi/Sith are opposites of the same coin that uses the same instruction manuals. They are aware of each others' function and results, and choose to, or not use. NS are separate as they use a difference set of instruction manuals, thus would be foreign to those who follow the Jedi/Sith's sets of rules.
A cigarette lighter to someone in 1700s is magic, as they used a match. But that same match to someone in the 700s would be magic, as they used some sort of torch....etc etc etc.
Just some random thoughts...
There is a line in either Clone Wars, or Revenge of the Sith by General Grievous "I am trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku.." it's as if he is saying the Jedi Training is better, or more formidable. Actually I guess it means he was trained in counters etc. But Soresu, etc are strong diciplines. So either would most cetainly benefit from it't teachings. Still was he saying the Jedi were stronger, and only hampered by their peaceful ways? After all Sith believe "Peace is a lie.. there is only power..".
I'll take the Force is magic to those who don't have it. For those that do, they understand a certain amount of "science" behind it.
Perhaps in the Star Wars universe, and ours, everything is technically magic. We're just using terms to cluster certain facts into categories. Once we master certain skills and basics, it's less magical.
I'm theorizing the Force has many ways to manipulate it to do certain things. Jedi/Sith are opposites of the same coin that uses the same instruction manuals. They are aware of each others' function and results, and choose to, or not use. NS are separate as they use a difference set of instruction manuals, thus would be foreign to those who follow the Jedi/Sith's sets of rules.
A cigarette lighter to someone in 1700s is magic, as they used a match. But that same match to someone in the 700s would be magic, as they used some sort of torch....etc etc etc.
Just some random thoughts...
There is a line in either Clone Wars, or Revenge of the Sith by General Grievous "I am trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku.." it's as if he is saying the Jedi Training is better, or more formidable. Actually I guess it means he was trained in counters etc. But Soresu, etc are strong diciplines. So either would most cetainly benefit from it't teachings. Still was he saying the Jedi were stronger, and only hampered by their peaceful ways? After all Sith believe "Peace is a lie.. there is only power..".
That is true, but saber combat is not the full (and only use) of the Force for a welder.
Grevious was trained on how a Jedi thinks and fights during combat, but it's hard to imagine he wasn't trained a little as a Sith. Though Sidious may only have seen Grevious as a tool or a piece of the puzzle that was the Clone Wars, he may not have told Dooku to teach him Sith techniques, just in case he turned on them.
When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
Started mid-FEB 2017, and not trying to reach the top.
I'll take the Force is magic to those who don't have it. For those that do, they understand a certain amount of "science" behind it.
Perhaps in the Star Wars universe, and ours, everything is technically magic. We're just using terms to cluster certain facts into categories. Once we master certain skills and basics, it's less magical.
I'm theorizing the Force has many ways to manipulate it to do certain things. Jedi/Sith are opposites of the same coin that uses the same instruction manuals. They are aware of each others' function and results, and choose to, or not use. NS are separate as they use a difference set of instruction manuals, thus would be foreign to those who follow the Jedi/Sith's sets of rules.
A cigarette lighter to someone in 1700s is magic, as they used a match. But that same match to someone in the 700s would be magic, as they used some sort of torch....etc etc etc.
Just some random thoughts...
There is a line in either Clone Wars, or Revenge of the Sith by General Grievous "I am trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku.." it's as if he is saying the Jedi Training is better, or more formidable. Actually I guess it means he was trained in counters etc. But Soresu, etc are strong diciplines. So either would most cetainly benefit from it't teachings. Still was he saying the Jedi were stronger, and only hampered by their peaceful ways? After all Sith believe "Peace is a lie.. there is only power..".
As a machine, Grievous would not be able to manipulate the force at all. As a machine, however, he has better "muscle" memory. He was able to master lightsaber combat due to his droid body having faster reflexes, finer motor skills and the computer interface between his brain and body. In ROTS, he said your Jedi arts, not only because Dooku was once a Jedi, but wielding a lightsaber was a tool associated with Jedi. If we can mix in my experience in KotOR 2, most people who aren't force sensitive assume that Jedi and Sith are the same, just fighting each other in a civil war.
I'll take the Force is magic to those who don't have it. For those that do, they understand a certain amount of "science" behind it.
Perhaps in the Star Wars universe, and ours, everything is technically magic. We're just using terms to cluster certain facts into categories. Once we master certain skills and basics, it's less magical.
I'm theorizing the Force has many ways to manipulate it to do certain things. Jedi/Sith are opposites of the same coin that uses the same instruction manuals. They are aware of each others' function and results, and choose to, or not use. NS are separate as they use a difference set of instruction manuals, thus would be foreign to those who follow the Jedi/Sith's sets of rules.
A cigarette lighter to someone in 1700s is magic, as they used a match. But that same match to someone in the 700s would be magic, as they used some sort of torch....etc etc etc.
Just some random thoughts...
There is a line in either Clone Wars, or Revenge of the Sith by General Grievous "I am trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku.." it's as if he is saying the Jedi Training is better, or more formidable. Actually I guess it means he was trained in counters etc. But Soresu, etc are strong diciplines. So either would most cetainly benefit from it't teachings. Still was he saying the Jedi were stronger, and only hampered by their peaceful ways? After all Sith believe "Peace is a lie.. there is only power..".
As a machine, Grievous would not be able to manipulate the force at all. As a machine, however, he has better "muscle" memory. He was able to master lightsaber combat due to his droid body having faster reflexes, finer motor skills and the computer interface between his brain and body. In ROTS, he said your Jedi arts, not only because Dooku was once a Jedi, but wielding a lightsaber was a tool associated with Jedi. If we can mix in my experience in KotOR 2, most people who aren't force sensitive assume that Jedi and Sith are the same, just fighting each other in a civil war.
Can't some machines manipulate the force though? Anakin's replacement hand, Luke's replacement hand, Vader's everything, and this little guy in some non-canon stories https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/R5-D4/Legends ?
I'll take the Force is magic to those who don't have it. For those that do, they understand a certain amount of "science" behind it.
Perhaps in the Star Wars universe, and ours, everything is technically magic. We're just using terms to cluster certain facts into categories. Once we master certain skills and basics, it's less magical.
I'm theorizing the Force has many ways to manipulate it to do certain things. Jedi/Sith are opposites of the same coin that uses the same instruction manuals. They are aware of each others' function and results, and choose to, or not use. NS are separate as they use a difference set of instruction manuals, thus would be foreign to those who follow the Jedi/Sith's sets of rules.
A cigarette lighter to someone in 1700s is magic, as they used a match. But that same match to someone in the 700s would be magic, as they used some sort of torch....etc etc etc.
Just some random thoughts...
There is a line in either Clone Wars, or Revenge of the Sith by General Grievous "I am trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku.." it's as if he is saying the Jedi Training is better, or more formidable. Actually I guess it means he was trained in counters etc. But Soresu, etc are strong diciplines. So either would most cetainly benefit from it't teachings. Still was he saying the Jedi were stronger, and only hampered by their peaceful ways? After all Sith believe "Peace is a lie.. there is only power..".
As a machine, Grievous would not be able to manipulate the force at all. As a machine, however, he has better "muscle" memory. He was able to master lightsaber combat due to his droid body having faster reflexes, finer motor skills and the computer interface between his brain and body. In ROTS, he said your Jedi arts, not only because Dooku was once a Jedi, but wielding a lightsaber was a tool associated with Jedi. If we can mix in my experience in KotOR 2, most people who aren't force sensitive assume that Jedi and Sith are the same, just fighting each other in a civil war.
Can't some machines manipulate the force though? Anakin's replacement hand, Luke's replacement hand, Vader's everything, and this little guy in some non-canon stories https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/R5-D4/Legends ?
I think it is connected to their living essence, what made Grievous, Grievous as it were, was his connection. "The force exists in all LIVING things, it binds us, and surrounds us.." or words to that effect.
I'll take the Force is magic to those who don't have it. For those that do, they understand a certain amount of "science" behind it.
Perhaps in the Star Wars universe, and ours, everything is technically magic. We're just using terms to cluster certain facts into categories. Once we master certain skills and basics, it's less magical.
I'm theorizing the Force has many ways to manipulate it to do certain things. Jedi/Sith are opposites of the same coin that uses the same instruction manuals. They are aware of each others' function and results, and choose to, or not use. NS are separate as they use a difference set of instruction manuals, thus would be foreign to those who follow the Jedi/Sith's sets of rules.
A cigarette lighter to someone in 1700s is magic, as they used a match. But that same match to someone in the 700s would be magic, as they used some sort of torch....etc etc etc.
Just some random thoughts...
There is a line in either Clone Wars, or Revenge of the Sith by General Grievous "I am trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku.." it's as if he is saying the Jedi Training is better, or more formidable. Actually I guess it means he was trained in counters etc. But Soresu, etc are strong diciplines. So either would most cetainly benefit from it't teachings. Still was he saying the Jedi were stronger, and only hampered by their peaceful ways? After all Sith believe "Peace is a lie.. there is only power..".
As a machine, Grievous would not be able to manipulate the force at all. As a machine, however, he has better "muscle" memory. He was able to master lightsaber combat due to his droid body having faster reflexes, finer motor skills and the computer interface between his brain and body. In ROTS, he said your Jedi arts, not only because Dooku was once a Jedi, but wielding a lightsaber was a tool associated with Jedi. If we can mix in my experience in KotOR 2, most people who aren't force sensitive assume that Jedi and Sith are the same, just fighting each other in a civil war.
Can't some machines manipulate the force though? Anakin's replacement hand, Luke's replacement hand, Vader's everything, and this little guy in some non-canon stories https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/R5-D4/Legends ?
I think it is connected to their living essence, what made Grievous, Grievous as it were, was his connection. "The force exists in all LIVING things, it binds us, and surrounds us.." or words to that effect.
Grievous was about 95% cyborg (his only genetic thingamajigs were, according to Wookieepedia, his brain, lungs, heart, eyes, and spinal cord). If he were force-sensitive pre-cyborg, would he still be able to use the force as a cyborg? Would he have lost too many midi-chlorians to use the force?
I'll take the Force is magic to those who don't have it. For those that do, they understand a certain amount of "science" behind it.
Perhaps in the Star Wars universe, and ours, everything is technically magic. We're just using terms to cluster certain facts into categories. Once we master certain skills and basics, it's less magical.
I'm theorizing the Force has many ways to manipulate it to do certain things. Jedi/Sith are opposites of the same coin that uses the same instruction manuals. They are aware of each others' function and results, and choose to, or not use. NS are separate as they use a difference set of instruction manuals, thus would be foreign to those who follow the Jedi/Sith's sets of rules.
A cigarette lighter to someone in 1700s is magic, as they used a match. But that same match to someone in the 700s would be magic, as they used some sort of torch....etc etc etc.
Just some random thoughts...
There is a line in either Clone Wars, or Revenge of the Sith by General Grievous "I am trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku.." it's as if he is saying the Jedi Training is better, or more formidable. Actually I guess it means he was trained in counters etc. But Soresu, etc are strong diciplines. So either would most cetainly benefit from it't teachings. Still was he saying the Jedi were stronger, and only hampered by their peaceful ways? After all Sith believe "Peace is a lie.. there is only power..".
As a machine, Grievous would not be able to manipulate the force at all. As a machine, however, he has better "muscle" memory. He was able to master lightsaber combat due to his droid body having faster reflexes, finer motor skills and the computer interface between his brain and body. In ROTS, he said your Jedi arts, not only because Dooku was once a Jedi, but wielding a lightsaber was a tool associated with Jedi. If we can mix in my experience in KotOR 2, most people who aren't force sensitive assume that Jedi and Sith are the same, just fighting each other in a civil war.
Can't some machines manipulate the force though? Anakin's replacement hand, Luke's replacement hand, Vader's everything, and this little guy in some non-canon stories https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/R5-D4/Legends ?
I think it is connected to their living essence, what made Grievous, Grievous as it were, was his connection. "The force exists in all LIVING things, it binds us, and surrounds us.." or words to that effect.
Grievous was about 95% cyborg (his only genetic thingamajigs were, according to Wookieepedia, his brain, lungs, heart, eyes, and spinal cord). If he were force-sensitive pre-cyborg, would he still be able to use the force as a cyborg? Would he have lost too many midi-chlorians to use the force?
Well, if he was force sensitive prior to being a cyborg, or droid, it follows he still had the connection? Unless his statement "I was trained in your jedi arts.." meant he was taught counters only. Which come to think of it, he was defeated fairly easily by Obi, so I doubt he had foresight. Hmmmmm
Telekinesis, is a popular theory of controlling objects with the mind. Sound familiar?
I'm afraid this idea has been thoroughly debunked. There has been a lot of scientific research into alleged supernatural, extrasensory or psychic powers and other supposed parapsychological phenomena since the 1930s, much of it funded by the US government, and it all amounts to the realization that no such thing exists.
The million-dollar challenge and the rigorous scientific tests of the James Randi Educational Foundation with individuals who claimed to have supernatural abilities are further proof that things like telekinesis, telepathy, fortune telling, clairvoyance etc. aren't real.
Of course people who earn a living with theatrics like cold reading come up with all kinds of excuses as to why their claimed powers can't be demonstrated under controlled experimental conditions, and their fans and followers are eager to believe them. But from a scientific point of view, we can safely consider such powers to be improbable to the point of impossibility.
I'll take the Force is magic to those who don't have it. For those that do, they understand a certain amount of "science" behind it.
Perhaps in the Star Wars universe, and ours, everything is technically magic. We're just using terms to cluster certain facts into categories. Once we master certain skills and basics, it's less magical.
I'm theorizing the Force has many ways to manipulate it to do certain things. Jedi/Sith are opposites of the same coin that uses the same instruction manuals. They are aware of each others' function and results, and choose to, or not use. NS are separate as they use a difference set of instruction manuals, thus would be foreign to those who follow the Jedi/Sith's sets of rules.
A cigarette lighter to someone in 1700s is magic, as they used a match. But that same match to someone in the 700s would be magic, as they used some sort of torch....etc etc etc.
Just some random thoughts...
There is a line in either Clone Wars, or Revenge of the Sith by General Grievous "I am trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku.." it's as if he is saying the Jedi Training is better, or more formidable. Actually I guess it means he was trained in counters etc. But Soresu, etc are strong diciplines. So either would most cetainly benefit from it't teachings. Still was he saying the Jedi were stronger, and only hampered by their peaceful ways? After all Sith believe "Peace is a lie.. there is only power..".
As a machine, Grievous would not be able to manipulate the force at all. As a machine, however, he has better "muscle" memory. He was able to master lightsaber combat due to his droid body having faster reflexes, finer motor skills and the computer interface between his brain and body. In ROTS, he said your Jedi arts, not only because Dooku was once a Jedi, but wielding a lightsaber was a tool associated with Jedi. If we can mix in my experience in KotOR 2, most people who aren't force sensitive assume that Jedi and Sith are the same, just fighting each other in a civil war.
Can't some machines manipulate the force though? Anakin's replacement hand, Luke's replacement hand, Vader's everything, and this little guy in some non-canon stories https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/R5-D4/Legends ?
I think it is connected to their living essence, what made Grievous, Grievous as it were, was his connection. "The force exists in all LIVING things, it binds us, and surrounds us.." or words to that effect.
Grievous was about 95% cyborg (his only genetic thingamajigs were, according to Wookieepedia, his brain, lungs, heart, eyes, and spinal cord). If he were force-sensitive pre-cyborg, would he still be able to use the force as a cyborg? Would he have lost too many midi-chlorians to use the force?
The force is sensed through the organics. Look at how much Vader lost when he just lost his arms and legs. Yes, he was able to pinch his fingers together and choke someone, but think about how much concentration he must have had to use. Does the hand gestures really make the force work? I doubt. Look at Degobah, with Luke levitating the rocks while standing on one hand, the other outstretched for balance. I don't remember Grievs being force sensitive before his "accident", so he wouldn't gain anything from being a cyborg, outside of the jedi-like reflexes and speed that technology could give him. So the mechanical aspects do not manipulate the force, but the organic meatbags attached to them do.
I know it's the organic parts of a life form that connect to the force and not any mechno-limbs, but if, as a Kaleesh, Grievous was force-sensitive, would he be as powerful in the force as a cyborg? Yes, Ani lost quite a bit on Mustafar, but he still has his everything above the knees, which is a lot of body remaining; a lot of midi-chlorians remaining. He was weakened because of Obi-Wan. Grievous lost much more than Ani did, would he still have enough sensitivity to the force to be able to use it?
I know it's the organic parts of a life form that connect to the force and not any mechno-limbs, but if, as a Kaleesh, Grievous was force-sensitive, would he be as powerful in the force as a cyborg? Yes, Ani lost quite a bit on Mustafar, but he still has his everything above the knees, which is a lot of body remaining; a lot of midi-chlorians remaining. He was weakened because of Obi-Wan. Grievous lost much more than Ani did, would he still have enough sensitivity to the force to be able to use it?
I don't know about Obi Wan hurting Anakin's connection to the force. I do know that between his suit and by extention, his injuries, he wasn't as powerful and lost a lot of abilities.
As for Grievous, according to his Wikipedia page, he was not force sensitive.
Funny how some gestures are linked to a specific use. Like in Rogue One when Vader chokes Krenic, his arm is hidden from view by his torso, until he turns and you see his fingers clenched. "Be careful you do not choke on your aspirations Director". I kept expecting to hear breakfast cereal (Snap, Crackle, Pop) lol
Telekinesis, is a popular theory of controlling objects with the mind. Sound familiar?
I'm afraid this idea has been thoroughly debunked. There has been a lot of scientific research into alleged supernatural, extrasensory or psychic powers and other supposed parapsychological phenomena since the 1930s, much of it funded by the US government, and it all amounts to the realization that no such thing exists.
The million-dollar challenge and the rigorous scientific tests of the James Randi Educational Foundation with individuals who claimed to have supernatural abilities are further proof that things like telekinesis, telepathy, fortune telling, clairvoyance etc. aren't real.
Of course people who earn a living with theatrics like cold reading come up with all kinds of excuses as to why their claimed powers can't be demonstrated under controlled experimental conditions, and their fans and followers are eager to believe them. But from a scientific point of view, we can safely consider such powers to be improbable to the point of impossibility.
Well, ya know.. Only a "Sith deals in absolutes".
Humor aside, given our history of persecution, and execution of any suspected of having supernatural powers, how ready do you think those with said abilities would be to own up to having them? I'm guessing zero. Food for thought.
Funny how some gestures are linked to a specific use. Like in Rogue One when Vader chokes Krenic, his arm is hidden from view by his torso, until he turns and you see his fingers clenched. "Be careful you do not choke on your aspirations Director". I kept expecting to hear breakfast cereal (Snap, Crackle, Pop) lol
Its like us Italians, tie our hands up to close our mouths. I think that the gestures are to add to the focus of manipulating the force because you "visualize" the action with your hand. Lift a rock would be easier if you picture yourself picking it up with your outstretched hand.
Funny how some gestures are linked to a specific use. Like in Rogue One when Vader chokes Krenic, his arm is hidden from view by his torso, until he turns and you see his fingers clenched. "Be careful you do not choke on your aspirations Director". I kept expecting to hear breakfast cereal (Snap, Crackle, Pop) lol
Its like us Italians, tie our hands up to close our mouths. I think that the gestures are to add to the focus of manipulating the force because you "visualize" the action with your hand. Lift a rock would be easier if you picture yourself picking it up with your outstretched hand.
Interesting choice of words "Focus". It could be argued the hands are a "Focus Item".
Funny how some gestures are linked to a specific use. Like in Rogue One when Vader chokes Krenic, his arm is hidden from view by his torso, until he turns and you see his fingers clenched. "Be careful you do not choke on your aspirations Director". I kept expecting to hear breakfast cereal (Snap, Crackle, Pop) lol
Its like us Italians, tie our hands up to close our mouths. I think that the gestures are to add to the focus of manipulating the force because you "visualize" the action with your hand. Lift a rock would be easier if you picture yourself picking it up with your outstretched hand.
Interesting choice of words "Focus". It could be argued the hands are a "Focus Item".
The force requires focus. What better way to focus ones mind, than to visually "manipulate" an object. Luke lacked focus, so he couldn't lift his x-wing. He also didn't believe it possible.
Funny how some gestures are linked to a specific use. Like in Rogue One when Vader chokes Krenic, his arm is hidden from view by his torso, until he turns and you see his fingers clenched. "Be careful you do not choke on your aspirations Director". I kept expecting to hear breakfast cereal (Snap, Crackle, Pop) lol
Its like us Italians, tie our hands up to close our mouths. I think that the gestures are to add to the focus of manipulating the force because you "visualize" the action with your hand. Lift a rock would be easier if you picture yourself picking it up with your outstretched hand.
Interesting choice of words "Focus". It could be argued the hands are a "Focus Item".
The force requires focus. What better way to focus ones mind, than to visually "manipulate" an object. Luke lacked focus, so he couldn't lift his x-wing. He also didn't believe it possible.
Yep "I don't believe it.." "That is why you failed"
Telekinesis, is a popular theory of controlling objects with the mind. Sound familiar?
I'm afraid this idea has been thoroughly debunked. There has been a lot of scientific research into alleged supernatural, extrasensory or psychic powers and other supposed parapsychological phenomena since the 1930s, much of it funded by the US government, and it all amounts to the realization that no such thing exists.
The million-dollar challenge and the rigorous scientific tests of the James Randi Educational Foundation with individuals who claimed to have supernatural abilities are further proof that things like telekinesis, telepathy, fortune telling, clairvoyance etc. aren't real.
Of course people who earn a living with theatrics like cold reading come up with all kinds of excuses as to why their claimed powers can't be demonstrated under controlled experimental conditions, and their fans and followers are eager to believe them. But from a scientific point of view, we can safely consider such powers to be improbable to the point of impossibility.
Well, ya know.. Only a "Sith deals in absolutes".
Humor aside, given our history of persecution, and execution of any suspected of having supernatural powers, how ready do you think those with said abilities would be to own up to having them? I'm guessing zero. Food for thought.
That's an odd view of history. From what I remember, it wasn't Giordano Bruno who burned witches at the stake. He was burned alongside them for scientific discoveries that challenged the predominant supernatural world view. History is largely a matter of supernatural believers killing other supernatural believers along with unbelievers for not believing in the same supernatural things.
Besides, there are plenty of people in our day and age who claim to have magic or psychic powers. Mentalists, cold readers, faith healers etc. make a killing with their theatrics and stage perfomances. Do you see anyone persecuting or trying to kill them? Neither do I. We let them get away with defrauding the gullible because supernatural ideas are not to be challenged. We've even enshrined the freedom to believe in and ritually perform magic in our constitutions.
PS: "Improbable to the point of impossibility" is not an absolute. It's a probability assessment based on the current state of research and knowledge. The scientific world view is not dogmatic and always remains open for new evidence. If anyone can conclusively prove that supernatural powers exist, we'll have to adjust our model of reality accordingly. But until then, based on everything we know so far, it seems so incredibly unlikely that it would be irrational to act based on the assumption that magic is real.
I know it's the organic parts of a life form that connect to the force and not any mechno-limbs, but if, as a Kaleesh, Grievous was force-sensitive, would he be as powerful in the force as a cyborg? Yes, Ani lost quite a bit on Mustafar, but he still has his everything above the knees, which is a lot of body remaining; a lot of midi-chlorians remaining. He was weakened because of Obi-Wan. Grievous lost much more than Ani did, would he still have enough sensitivity to the force to be able to use it?
I don't know about Obi Wan hurting Anakin's connection to the force. I do know that between his suit and by extention, his injuries, he wasn't as powerful and lost a lot of abilities.
As for Grievous, according to his Wikipedia page, he was not force sensitive.
IF! Do you people understand conditionals? I know Grievous was not force-sensitive and he never will be! I never said that he was, I'm saying IF he was force-sensitive!
Slight of hand, like card tricks and making stuff disappear is Magic. Performed by magicians.
The formula for calculating net Force is the mass of the object multiplied by the acceleration. This formula is commonly written as "F = ma", where "F" represents the net force, "m" represents the mass and "a" represents the acceleration. The formula for net force is based on Newton's second law of motion.
As for the afterlife, there are a bunch of TV shows like ghost hunters that attempt to prove in the existence of afterlife with science. For Star Wars as we know it, Light side aligned force users become blue glowy when they pass, becoming one with the force; while dark side aligned force users who bring back the spirits of the dead result in green glowy spirits.
Slight of hand, like card tricks and making stuff disappear is Magic. Performed by magicians.
The formula for calculating net Force is the mass of the object multiplied by the acceleration. This formula is commonly written as "F = ma", where "F" represents the net force, "m" represents the mass and "a" represents the acceleration. The formula for net force is based on Newton's second law of motion.
As for the afterlife, there are a bunch of TV shows like ghost hunters that attempt to prove in the existence of afterlife with science. For Star Wars as we know it, Light side aligned force users become blue glowy when they pass, becoming one with the force; while dark side aligned force users who bring back the spirits of the dead result in green glowy spirits.
Replies
With in the SW universe, magic is a "primitive" term used to describe the force, especially for the NS. They are classified as a DS group, so they would have no issue tapping into aspects of the force some would consider... unnatural.
Though from looking at Wookieepedia, "Magick is a living thing. It arises from blood and trees and mist. It flows through your veins already, but we will reshape you to channel it.", so it is very similar to the force.
The part I am focusing on in her quote is natural force wielder like the jedi or sith. Jedi don't use their power for selfish reasons, especially to prevent the natural flow of life, like stopping people from dying. The sith, although I wouldn't call nihilus or sion natural force users, but since they are not canon, they don't count. The only sith said to achieve power over death is Plagueis and that didn't stop him from dying. Now for Talzin, she was able to use the force to create zombies and there were spirits in the show Rebels, both of which wouldn't be naturally occurring entities. She did tap into the force, bending it to her will to make such... creatures "live" again.
They are dark side users. Actually they are one of the few that the sith were afraid of, if I remember correctly. That is why Dooku was sent to wipe them out. All of them. Dooku had an agreement with Talzin for a long time, and Talzin poisoned Dooku. The rest is Clone Wars history.
Aside from the NS, are there any other potential forms of magic? Ewoks reviving other Ewoks? Sith Alchemy (that might just be the force again)? The World between Worlds?
I don't know about this world between worlds, but just because there is no clear line between the force and magic, does not mean that they are not the same thing. Look at how advanced species with space travel capabilities treat primitive species in Star Trek. The primitives are left to develop their culture to the point where they can achieve space exploration. Similarly it wouldn't surprise me if the GR would do something similar.
Perhaps in the Star Wars universe, and ours, everything is technically magic. We're just using terms to cluster certain facts into categories. Once we master certain skills and basics, it's less magical.
I'm theorizing the Force has many ways to manipulate it to do certain things. Jedi/Sith are opposites of the same coin that uses the same instruction manuals. They are aware of each others' function and results, and choose to, or not use. NS are separate as they use a difference set of instruction manuals, thus would be foreign to those who follow the Jedi/Sith's sets of rules.
A cigarette lighter to someone in 1700s is magic, as they used a match. But that same match to someone in the 700s would be magic, as they used some sort of torch....etc etc etc.
Just some random thoughts...
Started mid-FEB 2017, and not trying to reach the top.
There is a line in either Clone Wars, or Revenge of the Sith by General Grievous "I am trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku.." it's as if he is saying the Jedi Training is better, or more formidable. Actually I guess it means he was trained in counters etc. But Soresu, etc are strong diciplines. So either would most cetainly benefit from it't teachings. Still was he saying the Jedi were stronger, and only hampered by their peaceful ways? After all Sith believe "Peace is a lie.. there is only power..".
Grevious was trained on how a Jedi thinks and fights during combat, but it's hard to imagine he wasn't trained a little as a Sith. Though Sidious may only have seen Grevious as a tool or a piece of the puzzle that was the Clone Wars, he may not have told Dooku to teach him Sith techniques, just in case he turned on them.
Started mid-FEB 2017, and not trying to reach the top.
As a machine, Grievous would not be able to manipulate the force at all. As a machine, however, he has better "muscle" memory. He was able to master lightsaber combat due to his droid body having faster reflexes, finer motor skills and the computer interface between his brain and body. In ROTS, he said your Jedi arts, not only because Dooku was once a Jedi, but wielding a lightsaber was a tool associated with Jedi. If we can mix in my experience in KotOR 2, most people who aren't force sensitive assume that Jedi and Sith are the same, just fighting each other in a civil war.
Can't some machines manipulate the force though? Anakin's replacement hand, Luke's replacement hand, Vader's everything, and this little guy in some non-canon stories https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/R5-D4/Legends ?
I think it is connected to their living essence, what made Grievous, Grievous as it were, was his connection. "The force exists in all LIVING things, it binds us, and surrounds us.." or words to that effect.
Grievous was about 95% cyborg (his only genetic thingamajigs were, according to Wookieepedia, his brain, lungs, heart, eyes, and spinal cord). If he were force-sensitive pre-cyborg, would he still be able to use the force as a cyborg? Would he have lost too many midi-chlorians to use the force?
Well, if he was force sensitive prior to being a cyborg, or droid, it follows he still had the connection? Unless his statement "I was trained in your jedi arts.." meant he was taught counters only. Which come to think of it, he was defeated fairly easily by Obi, so I doubt he had foresight. Hmmmmm
I'm afraid this idea has been thoroughly debunked. There has been a lot of scientific research into alleged supernatural, extrasensory or psychic powers and other supposed parapsychological phenomena since the 1930s, much of it funded by the US government, and it all amounts to the realization that no such thing exists.
The million-dollar challenge and the rigorous scientific tests of the James Randi Educational Foundation with individuals who claimed to have supernatural abilities are further proof that things like telekinesis, telepathy, fortune telling, clairvoyance etc. aren't real.
Of course people who earn a living with theatrics like cold reading come up with all kinds of excuses as to why their claimed powers can't be demonstrated under controlled experimental conditions, and their fans and followers are eager to believe them. But from a scientific point of view, we can safely consider such powers to be improbable to the point of impossibility.
The force is sensed through the organics. Look at how much Vader lost when he just lost his arms and legs. Yes, he was able to pinch his fingers together and choke someone, but think about how much concentration he must have had to use. Does the hand gestures really make the force work? I doubt. Look at Degobah, with Luke levitating the rocks while standing on one hand, the other outstretched for balance. I don't remember Grievs being force sensitive before his "accident", so he wouldn't gain anything from being a cyborg, outside of the jedi-like reflexes and speed that technology could give him. So the mechanical aspects do not manipulate the force, but the organic meatbags attached to them do.
I don't know about Obi Wan hurting Anakin's connection to the force. I do know that between his suit and by extention, his injuries, he wasn't as powerful and lost a lot of abilities.
As for Grievous, according to his Wikipedia page, he was not force sensitive.
Well, ya know.. Only a "Sith deals in absolutes".
Humor aside, given our history of persecution, and execution of any suspected of having supernatural powers, how ready do you think those with said abilities would be to own up to having them? I'm guessing zero. Food for thought.
Its like us Italians, tie our hands up to close our mouths. I think that the gestures are to add to the focus of manipulating the force because you "visualize" the action with your hand. Lift a rock would be easier if you picture yourself picking it up with your outstretched hand.
Interesting choice of words "Focus". It could be argued the hands are a "Focus Item".
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. "
And from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate factory
"We are the music-makers and we are the dreamers of dreams" Arthur O'Shaunessy
The force requires focus. What better way to focus ones mind, than to visually "manipulate" an object. Luke lacked focus, so he couldn't lift his x-wing. He also didn't believe it possible.
Yep "I don't believe it.." "That is why you failed"
That's an odd view of history. From what I remember, it wasn't Giordano Bruno who burned witches at the stake. He was burned alongside them for scientific discoveries that challenged the predominant supernatural world view. History is largely a matter of supernatural believers killing other supernatural believers along with unbelievers for not believing in the same supernatural things.
Besides, there are plenty of people in our day and age who claim to have magic or psychic powers. Mentalists, cold readers, faith healers etc. make a killing with their theatrics and stage perfomances. Do you see anyone persecuting or trying to kill them? Neither do I. We let them get away with defrauding the gullible because supernatural ideas are not to be challenged. We've even enshrined the freedom to believe in and ritually perform magic in our constitutions.
PS: "Improbable to the point of impossibility" is not an absolute. It's a probability assessment based on the current state of research and knowledge. The scientific world view is not dogmatic and always remains open for new evidence. If anyone can conclusively prove that supernatural powers exist, we'll have to adjust our model of reality accordingly. But until then, based on everything we know so far, it seems so incredibly unlikely that it would be irrational to act based on the assumption that magic is real.
IF! Do you people understand conditionals? I know Grievous was not force-sensitive and he never will be! I never said that he was, I'm saying IF he was force-sensitive!
Slight of hand, like card tricks and making stuff disappear is Magic. Performed by magicians.
The formula for calculating net Force is the mass of the object multiplied by the acceleration. This formula is commonly written as "F = ma", where "F" represents the net force, "m" represents the mass and "a" represents the acceleration. The formula for net force is based on Newton's second law of motion.
As for the afterlife, there are a bunch of TV shows like ghost hunters that attempt to prove in the existence of afterlife with science. For Star Wars as we know it, Light side aligned force users become blue glowy when they pass, becoming one with the force; while dark side aligned force users who bring back the spirits of the dead result in green glowy spirits.
Sith must go to Mustafar.