T3 zeta. Defense penetration.

Replies

  • Reptillor wrote: »
    You are doing the wrong math. It's a % based on a base number. 10% of a base of 50 is 5. 100% of a base of 50 is 50. 100% of a base of 0 is still **** 0. They arent adding 100% to a percentage they are added it to a base number. 10% of 0 is 0. 50% of 0 is 0. 10000000900007676% of 0 is 0..

    Sure if the defense stat was based off a percentage like potency and tenacity you may have a point. But it isnt.

    BUT ALL OF THAT DOESNT MATTER. look at the coded added stuff. IT DOESNT EFFECT THE DEFENSE PENETRATION ONE SINGLE BIT. Jesus, not a single word in the code mentions defense pen. So in all they typed in defense pen instead of typing armor/resistance.

    Even the screen shots you posted shows that defense penetration IS armour and resistance penetration, and the way it stacks is adding a percentage of 100%.
    Your screenshots only proved what i said. Your over-analyzing it way too much.

    Even in coding, addition means addition, multiplication means multiplication.
    In any form, and in any language in the world, math is universal, and math is math.
  • Reptillor wrote: »
    .... you keep saying defense pen is added. The stat called defense pen on t3, is 0. With zeta it's still 0.


    Yes while adding is still means adding but when adding % there are certain rules. Adding a % to another % is straight forward addition, but adding a % to a base number is slightly different. First we got to define what the base number is, of course looking at the code we now know the actual base numbers.

    Armor pen is 26, with that base 100% of that is 26. So its 52 armor pen shared with all my droids

    Resistance pen is 99, with that base 100% of that is 99. So 198 is shared with my droids.

    But without seeing the code all I can go by from the games words and stats its logical to assume by their very own wording

    Defense pen is 0 so the base is 0 so it adds 100% of that to the original number those are the laws of math I dont make them up, and that is how it is typed.

    It IS added.

    In this game, some kits add a percentage (ie; GIVE) you a specific amount regardless of the base number, while with others you GAIN a percentage of what is already available based on the base percentage. The developers are very clear in the wording (see examples), as they are two completely different things. This holds true for all D&D style, stats based rpg games, way from the board games when I was a little kid.


    Its not college math or high level computer science, you don't need to check the coding to figure out what it means. You need to go to the Khan Academy website and review percentages and story problems for 4th grade.... its really just elementary math, that same tried and true math from the rpgs of yester years.dgwcq9ofmtne.jpg
    xg0vovxmw191.jpg
    u7aprcpxypol.jpg

    In the case of t3 and ig88 the equations are-
    X% + 100%, and X% + 20%

    In the case of hk47's critical chance on his leader, and boba's critical damage, the equations are-
    X%(1.30), and X%(1.50)

    Different equations, different abilities, and the developers are quite clear because, again, the abilities read like a story problem.

    If t-3's zeta was worded like Boba or HK you would be correct, but it is instead worded like Ig-88. The wording is intentional.

    Coding works the same, java and C++ are basically pre-algebraic equations (same little equations that I showed you above), and everything is based off those in one form or another. I can't do what the developers do by any means, but I can make one heck of a tetris knockoff, or a cute little tic tac toe game, so I have a basic grasp of what goes on... and it really is just digital dungeons and dragons.
  • Chaoscore
    81 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Modify StatContext #1leaderabilty_hk47_abilitycrit_u04
    For All from Ally Side who are Alive and is species_droid
    Modify stat Special Critical Percent Additive by 30% (additive)


    never seen percentage increase to base CC in this game if i recall correctly, just additive abilities
    934-111-319
  • Not sure where my last post went abacmpchb52x.jpg
    but I will keeps this short.
    + a certain percentage means you are being GIVEN a specific amount, regarless of what you started with.
    While with other kits you GAIN a percentage.

    This is not college level math by any means, its kahn academy math.
    I completely get where you are going with base value, but that is irrelevant for the equation in t3s kit.
    (See examples)
    In the case of t3 and ig88 the equations are-
    X% + 100%, and X% + 20%.

    In the case of bobas critical damage, and hk's crit change, the kits are worded specifically to effect base values, which give you the following equations-
    X%(1.50), and X%(1.30).

    If t-3's kit was worded like hk or boba's, then you would be correct in your arguement.

    This format has been around since the d d&d board games from when I was a kid, and holds true for today for prettt much all stat based RPG'S. jvbeota5hfnq.jpg
    ucvacag1w1ve.jpg
  • Reptillor wrote: »

    4q5ir8yl08mw.jpg

    Guess this screen shot from swgoh page ends the topic.
    It says changes in Armor and Resistance Penetrations are (multiplicative).
    For those wondering, this "multiplicative" is applied when the change is based on original value: 10% of multiplicative increase changes 40% to 44%, 50% to 55%, 100% to 110%. You can see this behavior in QGJ's Harmonious Assault mechanics.
    If the change is absolute, than the term "additive" is used. 10% of additive increase changes 40% to 50%, 50% to 60%, 100% to 110%. You can see this behavior in R2-D2's Number Crunch mechanics.
    Judging by the description and description only, the +100% increase of T3-M4's Master Gearhead ability is more of an additive change than multiplicative change IMO, but swgoh.gg says otherwise.
  • Reptillor wrote: »

    4q5ir8yl08mw.jpg

    Guess this screen shot from swgoh page ends the topic.
    It says changes in Armor and Resistance Penetrations are (multiplicative).
    For those wondering, this "multiplicative" is applied when the change is based on original value: 10% of multiplicative increase changes 40% to 44%, 50% to 55%, 100% to 110%. You can see this behavior in QGJ's Harmonious Assault mechanics.
    If the change is absolute, than the term "additive" is used. 10% of additive increase changes 40% to 50%, 50% to 60%, 100% to 110%. You can see this behavior in R2-D2's Number Crunch mechanics.
    Judging by the description and description only, the +100% increase of T3-M4's Master Gearhead ability is more of an additive change than multiplicative change IMO, but swgoh.gg says otherwise.

    So, if I followed this correctly, the zeta *adds* 100% defense penetration which is then used as a multiplier on armor and resistance penetration. Like so:

    Armor penetration = armor penetration * (100% + defense penetration)

    And the same for resistance penetration...

    Did I get that right? I'd like to know before putting a zeta on T3-M4.
  • My understanding was always:
    The in game definition of defence penetration is
    'ignore a % of the enemy's defence.'

    So adding 100% to the base stat of 0 means you ignore 100% of the enemy's defence. No?
  • crzydroid
    7253 posts Moderator
    The defense penetration stat under general is a weird placeholder that is 0 for every character. When an ability modifies defense penetration, it modifies armor and resistance penetration. Same is true for Boba.
  • penetration and ...."

    0 (base value) + 100% (from ability) = 100% defense penetration for him to then grant to droid allies. [/quote]

    Kyno wrote: »
    ACE10 wrote: »
    But 0 + 100% still equals 0

    ???

    If it was 0 (non percent) + 100% (of the base value) you would be correct, but it's not.

    It is 0% + 100% which equals 100%.

    Confirmed by mods on another post...
    Exactly what I said.... 0% + 100% = 100%
    CONFIRMED
  • TheBloodyTongue
    111 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    jhbuchholz wrote: »

    So, if I followed this correctly, the zeta *adds* 100% defense penetration which is then used as a multiplier on armor and resistance penetration. Like so:

    Armor penetration = armor penetration * (100% + defense penetration)

    And the same for resistance penetration...

    Did I get that right? I'd like to know before putting a zeta on T3-M4.

    If my understanding is correct, "Defense Penetration" is a term used when refering to BOTH armor pen and resistance pen, as + on Defense increases both armor and resistance when modding characters. FYI, there's "Defense Penetration" stat in General Stats, but that stat is 0% for every character, so IMO it won't matter much.

    About actual mechanics, the swgoh.gg says T3-M4's Zeta gives 100% to Armor Penetration and Resistance Penetration multiplicatively, so T3-M4's Armor Penetration and Resistance Penetration are doubled, and that value is spread to other allies.
    For example, reading the values written on Mods tabs, Arm Pen and Res Pen(APRP) of my G9 T3-M4 are 26, 39, and for my G11 IG-88, they are 27 and 10.
    The Zeta will increase T3-M4's APRP's value to 104(26*2+26*2), 156(39*2+39*2) and IG-88's APRP to 79(27+26*2),88(10+39*2).

    [edit]
    Fixed the error where T3-M4 doesn't apply to himself 100% of his APRP after gaining multiplicative 100% bonus APRP.
    "For All from Ally Side" includes the character himself while "For Random from Ally Side" never targets himself.
    [/edit]
    Post edited by TheBloodyTongue on
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Alright.

    Firstly defense is a catchall term which means both resistance and armor. Hence adding 15 defense adds 15 armor and 15 resistance, the same way 15 offense would add 15 to both special damage and physical damage.

    Secondly. T3's Master Gearhead zeta goes off of HIS stats and has 2 parts. First, he doubles his defense pen, then gives that amount to all droids including himself, which means he ends up with 4X his Resistance pen (only important one since he uses special damage), and everyone else ends up with 2X his armor and resistance pen.

    This can be proven by when you examine the mechanics on swgoh.gg it says add 100% * [context value] (additive)

    The context value is t3's amount of armor/resistance pen.

    This is not a guess. This was a source of some lengthy debate on our droid discord until we figured it out.

    This is 100% guaranteed the way it works.

    @Killbot5000 sorry, but you're wrong. It absolutely, without a doubt, does not make all other droids ignore all armor/resistance.

    Hence this zeta is far more useful once you have the g12+ pieces.
  • I still say its 0% + 100% = 100%. Until it is confirmed one way or another by a developer, I believe you guys are severely over thinking or misreading things.
    I'm going with the wording is clear and simple.
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    I still say its 0% + 100% = 100%. Until it is confirmed one way or another by a developer, I believe you guys are severely over thinking or misreading things.
    I'm going with the wording is clear and simple.

    Go with the wording of the mechanic, not the text of the ability then.

    4q5ir8yl08mw.jpg

    It says Multiplicative 100% that means it isn't +100% because it is not additive.
    This is for when he modifies his own stat.


    Now on the 2nd part he gives that out to others.

    v3f7y4ajz280.png

    As I stated, it says 100% * context value (additive).

    Hmm, why does it say it is getting his value for resistance penetration? I wonder...

    You have been shown the mechanics. That's as good as a dev's word.


    Also we did lots of testing to verify how this works based on armor %. Based on our testing, there is absolutely 100% no friggin way he gives droids 100% armor/resistance pen. He gives them 200% of his armor/resistance pen.
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Armor and resistance work on a rating system. This means that the more of them you have, the less effective they are. So 200 armor pen vs someone who has 200 armor, will negate their 20% armor, but 200 armor pen vs someone who has 1000 armor will only negate somewhere around 5% armor. (i'm quoting from memory here, my numbers may be off, but they should illustrate the point adequately).

    It is set up that way so that no one could ever approach 100% armor. Why? Because 100% armor would make them immune to physical damage. Hence it is easy to test whether or not T3 gives out 100% armor pen. If there's any damage reduction whatsoever on a tank, then he does not. Period.

    So, anyone can feel free to test this themselves if they doubt our findings.
  • DonnieAndFrank
    332 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    nvm
    >:)So what? I want Krell!
  • Reptillor wrote: »

    4q5ir8yl08mw.jpg

    Guess this screen shot from swgoh page ends the topic.
    It says changes in Armor and Resistance Penetrations are (multiplicative).
    For those wondering, this "multiplicative" is applied when the change is based on original value: 10% of multiplicative increase changes 40% to 44%, 50% to 55%, 100% to 110%. You can see this behavior in QGJ's Harmonious Assault mechanics.
    If the change is absolute, than the term "additive" is used. 10% of additive increase changes 40% to 50%, 50% to 60%, 100% to 110%. You can see this behavior in R2-D2's Number Crunch mechanics.
    Judging by the description and description only, the +100% increase of T3-M4's Master Gearhead ability is more of an additive change than multiplicative change IMO, but swgoh.gg says otherwise.

    Swgoh.gg is not affiliated with EA or Capital Games. They can get stuff wrong. The devs probably have a unique way of writing code which we couldn’t understand without a degree in technology, so the word it out for us in the descriptions. Swgoh.gg on the other hand took the code directly. Other things they have gotten wrong include not having Deathmark listed as a filter and...
    “Challeneges”
  • Woodroward wrote: »
    I still say its 0% + 100% = 100%. Until it is confirmed one way or another by a developer, I believe you guys are severely over thinking or misreading things.
    I'm going with the wording is clear and simple.

    Go with the wording of the mechanic, not the text of the ability then.

    4q5ir8yl08mw.jpg

    It says Multiplicative 100% that means it isn't +100% because it is not additive.
    This is for when he modifies his own stat.


    Now on the 2nd part he gives that out to others.

    v3f7y4ajz280.png

    As I stated, it says 100% * context value (additive).

    Hmm, why does it say it is getting his value for resistance penetration? I wonder...

    You have been shown the mechanics. That's as good as a dev's word.


    Also we did lots of testing to verify how this works based on armor %. Based on our testing, there is absolutely 100% no friggin way he gives droids 100% armor/resistance pen. He gives them 200% of his armor/resistance pen.

    The mechanics on swgoh.gg

    I find your over-faith in code... disturbing
  • Reptillor wrote: »
    You are doing the wrong math. It's a % based on a base number. 10% of a base of 50 is 5. 100% of a base of 50 is 50. 100% of a base of 0 is still **** 0. They arent adding 100% to a percentage they are added it to a base number. 10% of 0 is 0. 50% of 0 is 0. 10000000900007676% of 0 is 0..

    Sure if the defense stat was based off a percentage like potency and tenacity you may have a point. But it isnt.

    BUT ALL OF THAT DOESNT MATTER. look at the coded added stuff. IT DOESNT EFFECT THE DEFENSE PENETRATION ONE SINGLE BIT. Jesus, not a single word in the code mentions defense pen. So in all they typed in defense pen instead of typing armor/resistance.
    As I mentioned before, when code is transferred between different parties who do things differently accidents can happen. The devs use Defense pen as a placeholder for armour and resistance pen. Things should not be taken so seriously. 100% defense pen increases your damage by a huge number. That is it.
    Reptillor wrote: »
    Yeah but that's assuming we come to that conclusion all by ourselves. I didnt, and by the people who are telling me it adds to the defense pen stat they also weren't aware of that.

    It's like adding an ability saying add 50% to super attack. They add a new stat called super attack but its 0 on all characters. Are people supposed to know that instead of effecting that 0 stat it adds 50% to both special and physical attack damage?

    They save 5-10 words in a description for a lot of confusion by the masses.

    First of all, everyone saying defense penetration used it as a placeholder. Secondly, you don’t understand the mechanics. An attack has its base damage, increased by offense stat and then critical hits, maybe. It is then reduced by Defense, resistance and armour. How would super attack be triggered? Probably the same way as offense, with it’s stat increased with gear, lvl and rarity. It would also be called super offense.

    BTW, instead of being stubborn after 5-10 people gave you the answer, you should have asked them to explain it in depth. Would have saved a lot of confusion on this thread.

    Your lack of maths offends me👾
  • Spooderham wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    I still say its 0% + 100% = 100%. Until it is confirmed one way or another by a developer, I believe you guys are severely over thinking or misreading things.
    I'm going with the wording is clear and simple.

    Go with the wording of the mechanic, not the text of the ability then.

    4q5ir8yl08mw.jpg

    It says Multiplicative 100% that means it isn't +100% because it is not additive.
    This is for when he modifies his own stat.


    Now on the 2nd part he gives that out to others.

    v3f7y4ajz280.png

    As I stated, it says 100% * context value (additive).

    Hmm, why does it say it is getting his value for resistance penetration? I wonder...

    You have been shown the mechanics. That's as good as a dev's word.


    Also we did lots of testing to verify how this works based on armor %. Based on our testing, there is absolutely 100% no friggin way he gives droids 100% armor/resistance pen. He gives them 200% of his armor/resistance pen.

    The mechanics on swgoh.gg

    I find your over-faith in code... disturbing

    The mechanics on swgoh.gg are taken directly from the game.

    I find your lack of faith in code to be similar to not believing in math.
  • Woodroward wrote: »
    Armor and resistance work on a rating system. This means that the more of them you have, the less effective they are. So 200 armor pen vs someone who has 200 armor, will negate their 20% armor, but 200 armor pen vs someone who has 1000 armor will only negate somewhere around 5% armor. (i'm quoting from memory here, my numbers may be off, but they should illustrate the point adequately).

    It is set up that way so that no one could ever approach 100% armor. Why? Because 100% armor would make them immune to physical damage. Hence it is easy to test whether or not T3 gives out 100% armor pen. If there's any damage reduction whatsoever on a tank, then he does not. Period.

    So, anyone can feel free to test this themselves if they doubt our findings.

    Does defense resist defense penetration or is the rating altogether different? i.e. in your example 1000 def to 200 def pen would make the def pen only a fifth as effective.

    I understand that you are using example numbers and my relation is also just an example
  • What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.

    0% + 100% = 100%
    (Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
    That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
    There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
    Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.

    I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
    I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
    It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.

    It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..


  • What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.

    0% + 100% = 100%
    (Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
    That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
    There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
    Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.

    I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
    I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
    It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.

    It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..


    again, this is more than just interpretation. We did testing.

    There is absolutely 100% no possible way it works the way you are saying it does. We wanted clarification too and never got it. Either accept the findings of our testing or do your own, but the matter is not a question anymore.

    It gives 200% of his armor and resistance pen to allies, not 100% armor pen to allies, period. Now please, do not attempt to confuse this issue further by responding with your point of view again unless you have done some testing and math to back it up.
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Armor and resistance work on a rating system. This means that the more of them you have, the less effective they are. So 200 armor pen vs someone who has 200 armor, will negate their 20% armor, but 200 armor pen vs someone who has 1000 armor will only negate somewhere around 5% armor. (i'm quoting from memory here, my numbers may be off, but they should illustrate the point adequately).

    It is set up that way so that no one could ever approach 100% armor. Why? Because 100% armor would make them immune to physical damage. Hence it is easy to test whether or not T3 gives out 100% armor pen. If there's any damage reduction whatsoever on a tank, then he does not. Period.

    So, anyone can feel free to test this themselves if they doubt our findings.

    Does defense resist defense penetration or is the rating altogether different? i.e. in your example 1000 def to 200 def pen would make the def pen only a fifth as effective.

    I understand that you are using example numbers and my relation is also just an example

    Defense pen removes an equal amount of defense.
    So 200 armor pen will negate exactly 200 armor.

    Someone with 200 armor would be reduced to 0 armor, which would mean no damage reduction. Someone with 1000 armor would be reduced to 800 armor ,but would not have 4X the armor of the guy with 200.
  • @Kyno could you please clarify your comment for @Killbot5000 ?
  • crzydroid
    7253 posts Moderator
    What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.

    0% + 100% = 100%
    (Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
    That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
    There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
    Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.

    I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
    I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
    It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.

    It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..


    I think the error you keep making here is that his defense penetration is 0. The stat thus labeled is 0 for everyone and doesn't mean anything--I'm not even sure why it's there.

    So if he gets +100%, it doubles his armor and Resistance penetration, and he shares that.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    The first line of the ability says "T3-M4 has +100% defense penetration and ...."

    0 (base value) + 100% (from ability) = 100% defense penetration for him to then grant to droid allies.

    This is what was quoted, and this is exactly what I said too .
    Just to clarrify, i never said he grants all droids 100% defense penetration. For some reason you seem to be under the impression that i said he grants all droids 100% defense penetration. There was someone on this post saying his ability is useless at g11. It works at any gear level.
    Woodroward wrote: »
    @Kyno could you please clarify your comment for @Killbot5000 ?

    I would line clarification too, because Kyno said exactly what i originally said, pretty much to the word.

  • Kyno wrote: »
    ACE10 wrote: »
    But 0 + 100% still equals 0

    ???

    If it was 0 (non percent) + 100% (of the base value) you would be correct, but it's not.

    It is 0% + 100% which equals 100%.

    Which is EXACTLY what I have been saying.
    Literally my original argument.
  • Woodroward
    3749 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    I'm pretty sure that Kyno, like you, was simply going by what it said.

    What it says is misleading. I went to the mechanics to clarify because I was originally of the belief that you are holding. So we looked at the mechanics. We then did math based on that and had members of our droid discord go up against people with a set amount of armor both before and after applying the zeta, and the amount of damage reduction that happened was consistent with them gaining 200% of t3's (in panel) defense pen.

    It doesn't matter that swgoh.gg is 3rd party. Their information is taken directly from the game, unlike some other 3rd party sites.
  • Woodroward wrote: »
    What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.

    0% + 100% = 100%
    (Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
    That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
    There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
    Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.

    I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
    I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
    It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.

    It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..


    again, this is more than just interpretation. We did testing.

    There is absolutely 100% no possible way it works the way you are saying it does. We wanted clarification too and never got it. Either accept the findings of our testing or do your own, but the matter is not a question anymore.

    It gives 200% of his armor and resistance pen to allies, not 100% armor pen to allies, period. Now please, do not attempt to confuse this issue further by responding with your point of view again unless you have done some testing and math to back it up.
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Armor and resistance work on a rating system. This means that the more of them you have, the less effective they are. So 200 armor pen vs someone who has 200 armor, will negate their 20% armor, but 200 armor pen vs someone who has 1000 armor will only negate somewhere around 5% armor. (i'm quoting from memory here, my numbers may be off, but they should illustrate the point adequately).

    It is set up that way so that no one could ever approach 100% armor. Why? Because 100% armor would make them immune to physical damage. Hence it is easy to test whether or not T3 gives out 100% armor pen. If there's any damage reduction whatsoever on a tank, then he does not. Period.

    So, anyone can feel free to test this themselves if they doubt our findings.

    Does defense resist defense penetration or is the rating altogether different? i.e. in your example 1000 def to 200 def pen would make the def pen only a fifth as effective.

    I understand that you are using example numbers and my relation is also just an example

    but would not have 4X the armor of the guy with 200.

    Understood everything you said until this. Please elaborate
  • Woodroward wrote: »
    What I think is funny is the wording is +100% defense penetration. And everyone keeps posting swgoh.gg., an independent 3rd party site, which doesn't prove much, as there could be a simple error in how it was typed. There is an obvious mistake on one end. On swgoh.gg the breakdown on the kit sounds like the breakdown on hk47s lead, but the direct wording on the abilities makes on an addition equation, and one a multiplication equation.

    0% + 100% = 100%
    (Defense pen is resistance and armor pen.)
    That is how the kit reads and a moderstor already confirmed that is how it works.
    There is no mention of multiplication of the base.
    Im no programmer (i took some basic 400 level computer science in college), but i can make on hell of a tic tac toe or tetris game in java. Simply put addition and multiplication work exactly the same way in coding as they do anywhere else.

    I understand what swgoh.gg is saying, but it would mean the kits wording is completely wrong.
    I personally think its an error in how swgoh.gg typed the explaination on thier site when they translated it.
    It at least SHOULD work as an addition equation because the wording so simply says that.... otherwise the kit is worded COMPLETELY wrong.

    It would ve really nice to hear from a developer on this for clarity..


    again, this is more than just interpretation. We did testing.

    There is absolutely 100% no possible way it works the way you are saying it does. We wanted clarification too and never got it. Either accept the findings of our testing or do your own, but the matter is not a question anymore.

    It gives 200% of his armor and resistance pen to allies, not 100% armor pen to allies, period. Now please, do not attempt to confuse this issue further by responding with your point of view again unless you have done some testing and math to back it up.
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Armor and resistance work on a rating system. This means that the more of them you have, the less effective they are. So 200 armor pen vs someone who has 200 armor, will negate their 20% armor, but 200 armor pen vs someone who has 1000 armor will only negate somewhere around 5% armor. (i'm quoting from memory here, my numbers may be off, but they should illustrate the point adequately).

    It is set up that way so that no one could ever approach 100% armor. Why? Because 100% armor would make them immune to physical damage. Hence it is easy to test whether or not T3 gives out 100% armor pen. If there's any damage reduction whatsoever on a tank, then he does not. Period.

    So, anyone can feel free to test this themselves if they doubt our findings.

    Does defense resist defense penetration or is the rating altogether different? i.e. in your example 1000 def to 200 def pen would make the def pen only a fifth as effective.

    I understand that you are using example numbers and my relation is also just an example

    but would not have 4X the armor of the guy with 200.

    Understood everything you said until this. Please elaborate

    Someone with 200 armor would have exactly 23.88% damage reduction.
    Someone with 800 armor would have exactly 55.65% damage reduction.

    55.65% is not 4X 23.88%
Sign In or Register to comment.