Update on the Finn/Threepio Raid Interaction: Resulting Finn Modifications [MEGA]

Replies

  • KyJoe_Cool
    1873 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    KM1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    28 pages of player comments and not one Dev bothers to show up! Yup, real community engagement.

    It was a holiday weekend, no one has been in the office since Friday.

    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .

    ^ Exactly. This +1,000,000. Common sense right there @KM1 Pretty simple, yet logical at the same time. But that wasn't the case as expected sadly.
    Massive SWGOH Community On Discord - https://discord.gg/QWvTUBZ
  • Any Dev job I have worked at had a standing order, no major code changes, updates, etc released on a Friday. PERIOD. Times change I guess.
  • KyJoe_Cool wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    28 pages of player comments and not one Dev bothers to show up! Yup, real community engagement.

    It was a holiday weekend, no one has been in the office since Friday.

    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .

    ^ Exactly. This +1,000,000. Common sense right there @KM1 Pretty simple, yet logical at the same time. But that wasn't the case as expected sadly.

    This is totally by design. I would always expect this.

    Announce something - especially unpopular- let the community rage for a few days.
    Community expects something on Tuesday - either no response or a generic we ll see.

    Time is the great healer of wounds. It gives cg a chance to read back and see how they want to take the next step. If there is one.
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    KM1 wrote: »
    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .
    They haven't changed anything.

    They made a forum post.

    And the lead is not being destroyed. It's just not going to be an infinite loop that prevents them from ever giving Resistance another good exposer.

    And just because something was working as intended in the past with limited tools doesn't mean it is working as intended with a developing game.
    Still not a he.
  • The meaning of life the universe, and everything. Used to be #11. Passed by MSF, and STrek is biting at it's heals. Maybe it's time to rethink the zeta stance on Finn?

    c92r3hs1zc4i.png

    We lost one long time player so far. He said and I quote "Guys, the game just isn't fun anymore, I'm out. G/L to everyone here". He was a long time member. Not happy. Oh, snarky comments about him leaving. Really BAD idea. Just sayin.

    First off. Yep. Pretty sad. And, Yes. It is time.

    Secondly, I'm really sorry my good friend @DuneSeaFarmer about your guildmate. Such a shame. Sad cause it didn't have to be like that and it didn't have to happen. It's not just because of this, it's one small thing after another that just adds up and takes its toll over time.

    Anyway, I truly wish your guild the very best despite your guildmate leaving nonetheless.
    Massive SWGOH Community On Discord - https://discord.gg/QWvTUBZ
  • Any Dev job I have worked at had a standing order, no major code changes, updates, etc released on a Friday. PERIOD. Times change I guess.

    ^ Smart right there.
    Massive SWGOH Community On Discord - https://discord.gg/QWvTUBZ
  • KyJoe_Cool wrote: »
    The meaning of life the universe, and everything. Used to be #11. Passed by MSF, and STrek is biting at it's heals. Maybe it's time to rethink the zeta stance on Finn?

    c92r3hs1zc4i.png

    We lost one long time player so far. He said and I quote "Guys, the game just isn't fun anymore, I'm out. G/L to everyone here". He was a long time member. Not happy. Oh, snarky comments about him leaving. Really BAD idea. Just sayin.

    First off. Yep. Pretty sad. And, Yes. It is time.

    Secondly, I'm really sorry my good friend @DuneSeaFarmer about your guildmate. Such a shame. Sad cause it didn't have to be like that and it didn't have to happen. It's not just because of this, it's one small thing after another that just adds up and takes its toll over time.

    Anyway, I truly wish your guild the very best despite your guildmate leaving nonetheless.

    Thanks
  • KM1
    145 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .
    They haven't changed anything.

    They made a forum post.

    And the lead is not being destroyed. It's just not going to be an infinite loop that prevents them from ever giving Resistance another good exposer.

    And just because something was working as intended in the past with limited tools doesn't mean it is working as intended with a developing game.

    Hahahahaha. "The lead is not being destroyed". Good one! Finn lead worked with Sidious' expose, with sabine's expose. It just worked. The Devs said "it is working as intended" even after the 3PO release. So what "limited tools"?
    And the Devs promised (in writing) to engage with the community before any changes. Now, they drop an "intended change" and "no zeta refund" message on a Friday and just before a major release (GG, Droidika) and no engagement. And they've not even responded to (now 29) pages of comments so far.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    KM1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    28 pages of player comments and not one Dev bothers to show up! Yup, real community engagement.

    It was a holiday weekend, no one has been in the office since Friday.

    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .

    They didnt drop a change, they dropped news about a change.

    Maybe they dont want the knee **** reaction, but want to give people time to contemplate the change and start to figure out that it is not as bad as they first though.
  • KM1
    145 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    28 pages of player comments and not one Dev bothers to show up! Yup, real community engagement.

    It was a holiday weekend, no one has been in the office since Friday.

    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .

    They didnt drop a change, they dropped news about a change.

    Maybe they dont want the knee **** reaction, but want to give people time to contemplate the change and start to figure out that it is not as bad as they first though.

    @Kyno , give me any team in the arena and my zFinn squad can end them. And it will hold pretty well on D (my team https://swgoh.gg/p/171635956/ ).After this nerf, I challenge you to do so with any resistance team with a zFinn lead. When the Devs said the lead was working as intended, that makes this much worse than "not as bad as they first thought". I'll put money on it. It's so bad that the Devs could only say it could beat a GK led jedi. Not a Revan led jedi team. Not a Bastilla led jedi team. Heck, not even a QGJ led jedi team. Dude. It's time to stop drinking the kool-aid
  • Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    28 pages of player comments and not one Dev bothers to show up! Yup, real community engagement.

    It was a holiday weekend, no one has been in the office since Friday.

    I doubt they had presidents day off. Very few corporations give that as a holiday.
  • Any Dev job I have worked at had a standing order, no major code changes, updates, etc released on a Friday. PERIOD. Times change I guess.

    Real developers drop code on 00:00 on Sunday!
  • KM1 wrote: »
    Hahahahaha. "The lead is not being destroyed". Good one! Finn lead worked with Sidious' expose, with sabine's expose. It just worked. The Devs said "it is working as intended" even after the 3PO release. So what "limited tools"?
    And the Devs promised (in writing) to engage with the community before any changes. Now, they drop an "intended change" and "no zeta refund" message on a Friday and just before a major release (GG, Droidika) and no engagement. And they've not even responded to (now 29) pages of comments so far.
    1) Things work as intended until they don't. Finn sat on a knife's edge for a long time. Finn approached a line. Finn crossed the line. Then the problem had to be resolved.

    2) Not working well with Sidious and Sabine does not destroy a Resistance lead.

    3) Forum posts aren't code updates. Had the news dropped Monday, the torches and pitchforks would have been the same.

    4) What good could ever possibly come from the devs putting any response in this toxic cesspool of toxicity? While a dev may come in here for the odd comment here or there, it's gonna be buried so fast as to be useless. Any actual response is far more likely to be an announcement. And neither what it's responding to nor what the response will be is going to be substantively different if it's one day or ten. This is the same ridiculous bile that gets flung at literally everything CG does and doesn't do.
    Still not a he.
  • KM1
    145 posts Member
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    Hahahahaha. "The lead is not being destroyed". Good one! Finn lead worked with Sidious' expose, with sabine's expose. It just worked. The Devs said "it is working as intended" even after the 3PO release. So what "limited tools"?
    And the Devs promised (in writing) to engage with the community before any changes. Now, they drop an "intended change" and "no zeta refund" message on a Friday and just before a major release (GG, Droidika) and no engagement. And they've not even responded to (now 29) pages of comments so far.
    1) Things work as intended until they don't. Finn sat on a knife's edge for a long time. Finn approached a line. Finn crossed the line. Then the problem had to be resolved.

    2) Not working well with Sidious and Sabine does not destroy a Resistance lead.

    3) Forum posts aren't code updates. Had the news dropped Monday, the torches and pitchforks would have been the same.

    4) What good could ever possibly come from the devs putting any response in this toxic cesspool of toxicity? While a dev may come in here for the odd comment here or there, it's gonna be buried so fast as to be useless. Any actual response is far more likely to be an announcement. And neither what it's responding to nor what the response will be is going to be substantively different if it's one day or ten. This is the same ridiculous bile that gets flung at literally everything CG does and doesn't do.

    1.)What line? The Devs said he was "working as intended". They didn't come up with you "knife's edge" ****. They said only his P3 interaction was broken (after the fact). And that could be fixed within P3 (the characters there aren't the standard toons anyway). But let's accept they did this because zFinn could eliminate the P2P GG team they developed. This nerf was to end zFinn as a viable arena/GA/TW team.
    2.) But that's a nerf, right? Ok. Thanks. He could work cross faction before, no issues, and now (over 2 years later) its a huuuuge deal
    3.) It wasn't a post asking for community feedback. It was informational- in the vein of "we are going to do this" and "we're not even going to acknowledge the toon you pumped resources (gear, zeta) is now completely different so no zeta refund"
    4.)Then don't promise to engage with the community. Just don't dissimulate.Be honest. But you probably don't understand.
  • Lordwar83
    112 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Is that „nerf“ already live?
  • Lordwar83 wrote: »
    Is that „nerf“ already live?

    No
  • I have to admit that changing a popular team to beat Revan right before the release of 2 Marquee characters that are being hyped up as anti Revan characters is a bad look. Especially after they changed Nest several months back.
  • Lrrr
    172 posts Member
    I maintain I would probably Zeta Finn if they did refund, but not refunding is a bad look.

    I spent my Zeta on a character who with my 277 speed Poe can win against almost any team without the 3PO, rebel potential unintended use. Now I’m not certain that Finn will win me battles against some of these squads.

    Any time you make a drastic change to a kit and that kit costs 20 Zeta’s (typically 2 weeks worth, or more), and 10 omegas...CG should refund it.

    It’s common sense. CG changed the deal, give players the option to to rebuy or spend elsewhere.

    I mean I’m not gonna lose my mind, cause I got like 2 years out of it, but it’s bait and switch. Advertise this, and change it to that.
  • Comment, @CG_SBCrumb? Lots of posts, mostly unhappy. Care to address?
    Go Pens!
  • You are taking the zeta I decided to buy and giving me another one whether I want it or not. This zeta should be refunded so I can decide if I want the new one or not. It should be handled just like Daka.
  • dominiQC wrote: »

    We will soon (have a character* that punishes its opponents for being faster) 😉

    Rex has been around forever.
  • I have a theory why Finn was nerfed and IT'S NOT because of the sith raid. I was watching the video about the new Separatist reworks and I realized that the devs preemptively changed Finn so that he can't beat the new Separatists!

    It's all so clear now, Separatists are still slow and Finn would easily run them down with the exposes and the TM gain. Resistance Trooper could take out the B1s and if you sub in Rey as your 4th she can daze B2 so he can't keep gaining TM when allies get hit.

    At least that's my theory, I might have missed something on their kits that invalidates this but so far it seems that this could be a possibility.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    28 pages of player comments and not one Dev bothers to show up! Yup, real community engagement.

    It was a holiday weekend, no one has been in the office since Friday.

    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .

    They didnt drop a change, they dropped news about a change.

    Maybe they dont want the knee **** reaction, but want to give people time to contemplate the change and start to figure out that it is not as bad as they first though.

    It is bad. It is very very bad.
  • dominiQC wrote: »

    We will soon (have a character* that punishes its opponents for being faster) 😉

    Rex has been around forever.

    Yes, but a good chunk of the new sep team can't crit. So Rex lead doesn't help.
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • Gorem
    1190 posts Member
    In the pipe five by five.

    Roger that red leader, Finn refund our lead zeta post target acquired and posted.
  • Hmmm work day is just about over and this thread is still engulfed in flames without so much as a peep from the devs on the matter.
    @CG_SBCrumb @CG_TopHat you’ve been given almost 30 pages of feedback. I’ll give you the TLDR.

    The majority hate the change to Finn, while the remaining few are still giving you the benefit of the doubt. They don’t trust your internal testing because it’s been wrong several times in recent memory. Absolutely nobody agrees with you not refunding zetas To his lead since you completely changed how it works when people invested in it.

    You have a true fix to the loop problem that’s been said scores of times here and on reddit. WHEN TRAYA IS TOPPLED ACTIVATE STACKING TENACITY ON HER PER DEBUFF/HIT SO THE EXPOSES ARE RESISTED AND THE LOOP BROKEN.

    It’s a much better fix and shows that this wasn’t at all about the teams hard counter to Revan. Just saying.
  • plindboe wrote: »
    The kit looks very interesting. He'll be a beast in raids, but his utility in GA and TW will undoubtedly diminish. Raids are more important when it comes to rewards though, especially the sith raid, so I welcome the change. That said, I will miss his old zeta a lot, as it was a unique and super fun way of playing.

    Are you serious. You have to be joking. Better in raids , raids more important lol.
    Pit on farm. Haat on farm , but guess what it doesnt help with the Sith raid lol if you use a jtr team in phase 1. You can't use the new finn phase 3 team , plus cls and 3p0 can solo phase 3 anyway.

    What sort of weakling things raid performance is more important? There are plenty of superior raid teams. His ability to beat almost anything on offense was far more important, and that's completely gone. That's why many got him.
  • vice
    90 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    everyone is missing the point here, the real reason why Finn is being nerfed is because of B1
    some toons are able to withstand a mass assist attack from C3PO but with all the exposes coming from Han and Chewbacca, if i'm not mistaken, expose removes sets of stacks? and Chewbacca also does additional damage based on health so that's another set of stacks? I could be wrong, but Finn would have killed B1 if my thinking is correct.

    that is why the simple solution of stacking tenacity on Treya is not a good "solution". They just twisted their reasoning to make it sound like they are changing it for other reasons such as "raid interaction", but really, it's because B1.
This discussion has been closed.