Update on the Finn/Threepio Raid Interaction: Resulting Finn Modifications [MEGA]

Replies

  • Obi1_son wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Does this make the changes right, no, but let's try to keep things civil so we have a real conversation.

    For this to be a real conversation, the devs have to show up. Right now we have a community venting its frustration to a wall with a mod trying to defend them and their poor decisions.

    That type of communication will never happen. I appreciate what kyno does and esp for how long he has been doing it. I also like when top hat sticks around the convo for changes like this. But improved communication will never happen hear. I’ve heard it for 3 years and it’s a nice fairy tale.

    They know when things will be Ill recieved.

    Options. Options is what the community has been craving. Give ppl the option to place finn’s zeta elsewhere or keep it.

    I’m sure I’m not alone when I kept the zeta on daka and would do the same with Finn.

    My thoughts- they couldn’t change traya because they have a team all lined up for that phase. The loop discussion is an old one. No player is really supporting loops in raids anymore.

    Refund the zeta - at least have a small make good on completely changing a kit. This will continue to happen.

    Test toons. If a new toon has different faction tags , test them with their respective faction leaders.

    Players like @Bulldog1205 bring them into the beta program. Have such players figure out these loops before the toon goes live.

    If only. I tried probably a dozen times to offer to help test and share the then secret exploit team I had if I could have access to the test server to help make my TW/GA counter videos. Never heard anything back. I’m sure I’ve burned the bridge at this point as I haven’t exactly been shy about criticizing their testing process after this latest video and I certainly didn’t do them any favors by waiting to release it until now.

    They should stop being so Tom Petty. #hirebulldog #somyzetasdontchange
  • KyJoe_Cool
    1599 posts Member
    edited February 19
    KM1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    28 pages of player comments and not one Dev bothers to show up! Yup, real community engagement.

    It was a holiday weekend, no one has been in the office since Friday.

    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .

    ^ Exactly. This +1,000,000. Common sense right there @KM1 Pretty simple, yet logical at the same time. But that wasn't the case as expected sadly.
  • Any Dev job I have worked at had a standing order, no major code changes, updates, etc released on a Friday. PERIOD. Times change I guess.
    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • KyJoe_Cool wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    28 pages of player comments and not one Dev bothers to show up! Yup, real community engagement.

    It was a holiday weekend, no one has been in the office since Friday.

    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .

    ^ Exactly. This +1,000,000. Common sense right there @KM1 Pretty simple, yet logical at the same time. But that wasn't the case as expected sadly.

    This is totally by design. I would always expect this.

    Announce something - especially unpopular- let the community rage for a few days.
    Community expects something on Tuesday - either no response or a generic we ll see.

    Time is the great healer of wounds. It gives cg a chance to read back and see how they want to take the next step. If there is one.
  • YaeVizsla
    2288 posts Member
    edited February 19
    KM1 wrote: »
    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .
    They haven't changed anything.

    They made a forum post.

    And the lead is not being destroyed. It's just not going to be an infinite loop that prevents them from ever giving Resistance another good exposer.

    And just because something was working as intended in the past with limited tools doesn't mean it is working as intended with a developing game.
  • The meaning of life the universe, and everything. Used to be #11. Passed by MSF, and STrek is biting at it's heals. Maybe it's time to rethink the zeta stance on Finn?

    c92r3hs1zc4i.png

    We lost one long time player so far. He said and I quote "Guys, the game just isn't fun anymore, I'm out. G/L to everyone here". He was a long time member. Not happy. Oh, snarky comments about him leaving. Really BAD idea. Just sayin.

    First off. Yep. Pretty sad. And, Yes. It is time.

    Secondly, I'm really sorry my good friend @DuneSeaFarmer about your guildmate. Such a shame. Sad cause it didn't have to be like that and it didn't have to happen. It's not just because of this, it's one small thing after another that just adds up and takes its toll over time.

    Anyway, I truly wish your guild the very best despite your guildmate leaving nonetheless.
  • Any Dev job I have worked at had a standing order, no major code changes, updates, etc released on a Friday. PERIOD. Times change I guess.

    ^ Smart right there.
  • KyJoe_Cool wrote: »
    The meaning of life the universe, and everything. Used to be #11. Passed by MSF, and STrek is biting at it's heals. Maybe it's time to rethink the zeta stance on Finn?

    c92r3hs1zc4i.png

    We lost one long time player so far. He said and I quote "Guys, the game just isn't fun anymore, I'm out. G/L to everyone here". He was a long time member. Not happy. Oh, snarky comments about him leaving. Really BAD idea. Just sayin.

    First off. Yep. Pretty sad. And, Yes. It is time.

    Secondly, I'm really sorry my good friend @DuneSeaFarmer about your guildmate. Such a shame. Sad cause it didn't have to be like that and it didn't have to happen. It's not just because of this, it's one small thing after another that just adds up and takes its toll over time.

    Anyway, I truly wish your guild the very best despite your guildmate leaving nonetheless.

    Thanks
    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • Kyno
    20554 posts Moderator
    KM1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    28 pages of player comments and not one Dev bothers to show up! Yup, real community engagement.

    It was a holiday weekend, no one has been in the office since Friday.

    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .

    They didnt drop a change, they dropped news about a change.

    Maybe they dont want the knee **** reaction, but want to give people time to contemplate the change and start to figure out that it is not as bad as they first though.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    28 pages of player comments and not one Dev bothers to show up! Yup, real community engagement.

    It was a holiday weekend, no one has been in the office since Friday.

    I doubt they had presidents day off. Very few corporations give that as a holiday.
  • Any Dev job I have worked at had a standing order, no major code changes, updates, etc released on a Friday. PERIOD. Times change I guess.

    Real developers drop code on 00:00 on Sunday!
  • KM1 wrote: »
    Hahahahaha. "The lead is not being destroyed". Good one! Finn lead worked with Sidious' expose, with sabine's expose. It just worked. The Devs said "it is working as intended" even after the 3PO release. So what "limited tools"?
    And the Devs promised (in writing) to engage with the community before any changes. Now, they drop an "intended change" and "no zeta refund" message on a Friday and just before a major release (GG, Droidika) and no engagement. And they've not even responded to (now 29) pages of comments so far.
    1) Things work as intended until they don't. Finn sat on a knife's edge for a long time. Finn approached a line. Finn crossed the line. Then the problem had to be resolved.

    2) Not working well with Sidious and Sabine does not destroy a Resistance lead.

    3) Forum posts aren't code updates. Had the news dropped Monday, the torches and pitchforks would have been the same.

    4) What good could ever possibly come from the devs putting any response in this toxic cesspool of toxicity? While a dev may come in here for the odd comment here or there, it's gonna be buried so fast as to be useless. Any actual response is far more likely to be an announcement. And neither what it's responding to nor what the response will be is going to be substantively different if it's one day or ten. This is the same ridiculous bile that gets flung at literally everything CG does and doesn't do.
  • Lordwar83
    27 posts Member
    edited February 19
    Is that „nerf“ already live?
  • Lordwar83 wrote: »
    Is that „nerf“ already live?

    No
  • Comment, @CG_SBCrumb? Lots of posts, mostly unhappy. Care to address?
    Go Pens!
  • You are taking the zeta I decided to buy and giving me another one whether I want it or not. This zeta should be refunded so I can decide if I want the new one or not. It should be handled just like Daka.
  • dominiQC
    303 posts Member
    edited February 19
    Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    CG is soooo inconsistent
    CG says "we have no problem with Finn's mechanics or soloing HAAT" but instead of just fixing HSTR, they nerf Finn

    We are being told they can still solo the HAAT raid.
    KM1 wrote: »
    CG says "we want a variety of teams in arena" and then nerf one of the few reliable Revan counters and create a monoculture in Arena (48/50 top teams in my shard are Revan)
    .

    He was dead in the meta report well before this update was announced, never mind actually launched.
    KM1 wrote: »
    CG says "we want players to focus on all mods not just speed" and when we craft a zFinn team that needs other mods than speed, they force us back to using "the fastest Revan" mod paradigm.

    ??
    That team will still want things like potency, protection, health, and possibly defense or offense with the new kit.

    What they want and what the players will do are 2 different things, there is no getting away from speed until they start making kits that punish a toon for being faster than the attacker.
    Other than your last point (because we dont have anyone yet that punishes the other player for having speed.) what you are saying doesnt show any lies.

    Does this make the changes right, no, but let's try to keep things civil so we have a real conversation.

    We will soon (have a character* that punishes its opponents for being faster) 😉
  • dominiQC wrote: »

    We will soon (have a character* that punishes its opponents for being faster) 😉

    Rex has been around forever.
  • I have a theory why Finn was nerfed and IT'S NOT because of the sith raid. I was watching the video about the new Separatist reworks and I realized that the devs preemptively changed Finn so that he can't beat the new Separatists!

    It's all so clear now, Separatists are still slow and Finn would easily run them down with the exposes and the TM gain. Resistance Trooper could take out the B1s and if you sub in Rey as your 4th she can daze B2 so he can't keep gaining TM when allies get hit.

    At least that's my theory, I might have missed something on their kits that invalidates this but so far it seems that this could be a possibility.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    28 pages of player comments and not one Dev bothers to show up! Yup, real community engagement.

    It was a holiday weekend, no one has been in the office since Friday.

    All the more reason no to drop a massive change on Friday evening on your way out the door. Was this not even considered possible? Or was the weekend to see if the dedicated player base would "wear itself out" and resign itself to arbitrary action (destruction of a beloved lead that it was repeatedly stated "was working as intended"). It's not exculpatory .

    They didnt drop a change, they dropped news about a change.

    Maybe they dont want the knee **** reaction, but want to give people time to contemplate the change and start to figure out that it is not as bad as they first though.

    It is bad. It is very very bad.
  • dominiQC wrote: »

    We will soon (have a character* that punishes its opponents for being faster) 😉

    Rex has been around forever.

    Yes, but a good chunk of the new sep team can't crit. So Rex lead doesn't help.
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • Gorem
    1113 posts Member
    In the pipe five by five.

    Roger that red leader, Finn refund our lead zeta post target acquired and posted.
  • Hmmm work day is just about over and this thread is still engulfed in flames without so much as a peep from the devs on the matter.
    @CG_SBCrumb @CG_TopHat you’ve been given almost 30 pages of feedback. I’ll give you the TLDR.

    The majority hate the change to Finn, while the remaining few are still giving you the benefit of the doubt. They don’t trust your internal testing because it’s been wrong several times in recent memory. Absolutely nobody agrees with you not refunding zetas To his lead since you completely changed how it works when people invested in it.

    You have a true fix to the loop problem that’s been said scores of times here and on reddit. WHEN TRAYA IS TOPPLED ACTIVATE STACKING TENACITY ON HER PER DEBUFF/HIT SO THE EXPOSES ARE RESISTED AND THE LOOP BROKEN.

    It’s a much better fix and shows that this wasn’t at all about the teams hard counter to Revan. Just saying.
  • plindboe wrote: »
    The kit looks very interesting. He'll be a beast in raids, but his utility in GA and TW will undoubtedly diminish. Raids are more important when it comes to rewards though, especially the sith raid, so I welcome the change. That said, I will miss his old zeta a lot, as it was a unique and super fun way of playing.

    Are you serious. You have to be joking. Better in raids , raids more important lol.
    Pit on farm. Haat on farm , but guess what it doesnt help with the Sith raid lol if you use a jtr team in phase 1. You can't use the new finn phase 3 team , plus cls and 3p0 can solo phase 3 anyway.

    What sort of weakling things raid performance is more important? There are plenty of superior raid teams. His ability to beat almost anything on offense was far more important, and that's completely gone. That's why many got him.
This discussion has been closed.