GP Matchmaking & “Fluff”

Replies

  • JohnAran wrote: »
    The more you read this topic the more you’re wondering what’s happening. 5min of reading here will make you think that cg made a matchmaking algorithm so horrible half the players will finish 8th.
    Apparently the algorithm not only mismatches people, it actively tries to find the most unbalanced matchups possible. It even creates players with insane lean rosters to match them with collectors to punish them because it’s **** that way.
    You then believe that around 99.99% of the matchups were unwinnable for one player, and even heard of brackets where all 8 players lost the round.
    Based on your readings, everything is doomed and the game should self destruct in 12 days.

    Then you wake up and realise the first GA hasn’t even been played through.

    Correct..... Most of the day one players don't seem to realize they will be against eachother, and fighting folks that went through what they went through, players who likely have the same toons levelled up etc.....

    GA is mostly about your top squads and strategy anyways...... No reason for anyone to panic ..

  • No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno you have an admirable roster. You were able to gear majority of toons to a semi-functional state. This is what is left of it. Besides your admitted credits shortage to fluff further, I don't see many of these toons in the state they are due to wise resource management or intent to use the way you describe it.

    dumaghi69ff3.png
    erozl4rmnha8.png
    n8ou1a0xjbgz.png


    Yes as a 3 year veteran I have done a lot to manage my resources and get to the place where I am, but i still make use of a small hoard of materials to make sure I am flexible as new things roll out.

    I also would not expect a newer player to invest the same way I have. Nor would I consider my roster as combat effective as rosters I have seen. I consider myself more of a collector than a combatant.

    Also after starting to get my Ewoks ready, I am lower on credits than I would like, if something else comes up.

    I am not going to be winning the top spot in many GA but I do ok in TW. That doesnt mean I cant see how I would have planned better and what choices I could have made, nor would I ever think that anyone should cater to my choices.

    Which choices you have made (talking specifically about g8 and -) you would have made better, how so? Would you also not have made them if current GA matchmaking didn't happen? Or are you reframing them as bad choices because of the matchmaking?

    No as I said, I dont blame anyone for my choices. There are several toons that I thought I would use or continue to gear that I didnt for ships or raids or other plans that only got half realized. I feel those hurt me in TW (and now GA but that's too early to tell). I dont mean they hurt me because of my GP, I mean they were a miss allocation of needed resources or energy(in reference to the cantina table) that could have help me get toons to a better state or give me better mods.

    That's quite a twist there you pulled with bringing up cantina. What about the gear you wasted on them, do they have a better place they would have gone to? Is it your continuously growing pile of unspendable resources?

    Again resource management is about more than just one thing.

    I love how credits and crystals the 2 most important currencies are thrown to the side when it comes to gear we have 1000s of.

    When I look at the lower end of my roster I see credits wasted about 2-3M per toon to get 7* level 52, and abilities, with mods. I see wasted crystals for energy refreshes that could have been used to get more high end gear or mods, or slicing.

    My goal was never to make a place for me to put my gear I have 1000s of, it doesnt matter, I have 1000s of it, and when I'm done I will have 1000s of it. There is more that goes into every choice than just the last thing you put on a toon. The whole path has to be considered.

    And yes there are select pieces of low end gear we all have to farm randomly as we gear up toons, mk2 gel I think are one, along with a few others, the mk3 holdo projector is a great example. I also feel like I am missing another low end that shows up a lot in 9-11 but I could be wrong.

    This guy
    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/102/mk-3-sienar-holo-projector/

    Just as much of a gate for 5-7 as it is for 9-11.

    And this
    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/103/mk-2-zaltin-bacta-gel/

    Use at lvl 7, but then need to farm it for 8 and 9.

    Anything below g10 is useless, and anything that slows you progress to get toons through g7- g9 can be seen as a bad choice IMO.

    Again wanting others to be the bad guy or blaming a system that doesnt suit your play style doesnt make it true. Being an impartial matchmaker seems to be the goal of the GA system, I much prefer that to the dev team being heavy handed on it.

    GP is arbitrarily thought out in terms of assessing a factor's contribution in gameplay terms. I don't think discarding GP and weighting in other factors is the way to go as that would a defeatist approach.

    I rather think the GP has to be redesigned and brought in line with it's original intent.

    Firstly a good approach would be to use exponential functions calculating each factors incremental GP contribution instead of a linear function (i.e. level 1-2 upgrade gives same gp as a level 84-85 upgrade).

    If coming up with exponentials are too much work(clue: it isn't) CG could have gone with their already established resource metrics.

    Levels have these steps in terms of credit use. There you already have the multipliers needed for GP calculation. i.e. level 1-60 gives some amount, 61-70 gives 2x that amount (don't remember the credit costs)

    With gears you either go with gear tiers same across all toons, or you go with the amount of gear pieces based on map energy costs (2nd one would differentiate GP bumps for gear between toons). If you go with the first one you need an exponential function. A single g11-12 upgrades efficacy trumps 20 g1-g2 upgrades as you know. The function has to reflect that.

    With ability mats you either go with ability tier exponentiating or work with assessing the value of green/blue/purple/omega/zeta ability mats.

    Stars, use the existing stat multiplier.

    Now the hardest part is when you have to assess GP contribution multipliers in between resource types. How much is a gear tier compared to levels? CG has already done this part, a bit lopsided but at least existing consideration.

    .

    I’m not sure i understand this part ( promise i’m not being « intentionally short-sighted ») since everything said here is already in place. Levels give much more gp towards the end (just tried, 1>2 gives 1 gp, 75>76 gives 61 gp). A gear 1 piece gives 6 gp, a gear 11 gives around 200 (211 i believe ? Just put 1 but already forgot). Abilities give a few dozen gp at first, a zeta is 2 thousand.
    The truth is the only factor skewing the gp is stars, since they don’t do much power wise but make up for a third of the total gp of some characters (around 5k gp for a lvl 1 gear 1 7* char). At the opposite side, mods give i believe 1.3k gp ? For a full set (5*), and yet are a great source of power.
    No idea why stars give so much.

    To be honest i feel that the problem would be there if you wanted gp to reflect character power more accurately. Combat stats are multiplicative while gp is always the same. The same set of mods on a gear 1 char doesn’t give the same power as on a g12 char. This plus the fact that mods give a lot of actual strenght for few gp while 7* gives very little strenght for a lot of gp makes it so weird and inaccurate.

    I still think that the matchmaking in ga is looking mostly fine at first (although of course can always be better) and that it’s way too early to burn everything down screaming for changes, but yeah gp could be improved a lot.
  • No_Try
    2439 posts Member
    JohnAran wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno you have an admirable roster. You were able to gear majority of toons to a semi-functional state. This is what is left of it. Besides your admitted credits shortage to fluff further, I don't see many of these toons in the state they are due to wise resource management or intent to use the way you describe it.

    dumaghi69ff3.png
    erozl4rmnha8.png
    n8ou1a0xjbgz.png


    Yes as a 3 year veteran I have done a lot to manage my resources and get to the place where I am, but i still make use of a small hoard of materials to make sure I am flexible as new things roll out.

    I also would not expect a newer player to invest the same way I have. Nor would I consider my roster as combat effective as rosters I have seen. I consider myself more of a collector than a combatant.

    Also after starting to get my Ewoks ready, I am lower on credits than I would like, if something else comes up.

    I am not going to be winning the top spot in many GA but I do ok in TW. That doesnt mean I cant see how I would have planned better and what choices I could have made, nor would I ever think that anyone should cater to my choices.

    Which choices you have made (talking specifically about g8 and -) you would have made better, how so? Would you also not have made them if current GA matchmaking didn't happen? Or are you reframing them as bad choices because of the matchmaking?

    No as I said, I dont blame anyone for my choices. There are several toons that I thought I would use or continue to gear that I didnt for ships or raids or other plans that only got half realized. I feel those hurt me in TW (and now GA but that's too early to tell). I dont mean they hurt me because of my GP, I mean they were a miss allocation of needed resources or energy(in reference to the cantina table) that could have help me get toons to a better state or give me better mods.

    That's quite a twist there you pulled with bringing up cantina. What about the gear you wasted on them, do they have a better place they would have gone to? Is it your continuously growing pile of unspendable resources?

    Again resource management is about more than just one thing.

    I love how credits and crystals the 2 most important currencies are thrown to the side when it comes to gear we have 1000s of.

    When I look at the lower end of my roster I see credits wasted about 2-3M per toon to get 7* level 52, and abilities, with mods. I see wasted crystals for energy refreshes that could have been used to get more high end gear or mods, or slicing.

    My goal was never to make a place for me to put my gear I have 1000s of, it doesnt matter, I have 1000s of it, and when I'm done I will have 1000s of it. There is more that goes into every choice than just the last thing you put on a toon. The whole path has to be considered.

    And yes there are select pieces of low end gear we all have to farm randomly as we gear up toons, mk2 gel I think are one, along with a few others, the mk3 holdo projector is a great example. I also feel like I am missing another low end that shows up a lot in 9-11 but I could be wrong.

    This guy
    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/102/mk-3-sienar-holo-projector/

    Just as much of a gate for 5-7 as it is for 9-11.

    And this
    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/103/mk-2-zaltin-bacta-gel/

    Use at lvl 7, but then need to farm it for 8 and 9.

    Anything below g10 is useless, and anything that slows you progress to get toons through g7- g9 can be seen as a bad choice IMO.

    Again wanting others to be the bad guy or blaming a system that doesnt suit your play style doesnt make it true. Being an impartial matchmaker seems to be the goal of the GA system, I much prefer that to the dev team being heavy handed on it.

    GP is arbitrarily thought out in terms of assessing a factor's contribution in gameplay terms. I don't think discarding GP and weighting in other factors is the way to go as that would a defeatist approach.

    I rather think the GP has to be redesigned and brought in line with it's original intent.

    Firstly a good approach would be to use exponential functions calculating each factors incremental GP contribution instead of a linear function (i.e. level 1-2 upgrade gives same gp as a level 84-85 upgrade).

    If coming up with exponentials are too much work(clue: it isn't) CG could have gone with their already established resource metrics.

    Levels have these steps in terms of credit use. There you already have the multipliers needed for GP calculation. i.e. level 1-60 gives some amount, 61-70 gives 2x that amount (don't remember the credit costs)

    With gears you either go with gear tiers same across all toons, or you go with the amount of gear pieces based on map energy costs (2nd one would differentiate GP bumps for gear between toons). If you go with the first one you need an exponential function. A single g11-12 upgrades efficacy trumps 20 g1-g2 upgrades as you know. The function has to reflect that.

    With ability mats you either go with ability tier exponentiating or work with assessing the value of green/blue/purple/omega/zeta ability mats.

    Stars, use the existing stat multiplier.

    Now the hardest part is when you have to assess GP contribution multipliers in between resource types. How much is a gear tier compared to levels? CG has already done this part, a bit lopsided but at least existing consideration.

    .

    I’m not sure i understand this part ( promise i’m not being « intentionally short-sighted ») since everything said here is already in place. Levels give much more gp towards the end (just tried, 1>2 gives 1 gp, 75>76 gives 61 gp). A gear 1 piece gives 6 gp, a gear 11 gives around 200 (211 i believe ? Just put 1 but already forgot). Abilities give a few dozen gp at first, a zeta is 2 thousand.
    The truth is the only factor skewing the gp is stars, since they don’t do much power wise but make up for a third of the total gp of some characters (around 5k gp for a lvl 1 gear 1 7* char). At the opposite side, mods give i believe 1.3k gp ? For a full set (5*), and yet are a great source of power.
    No idea why stars give so much.

    To be honest i feel that the problem would be there if you wanted gp to reflect character power more accurately. Combat stats are multiplicative while gp is always the same. The same set of mods on a gear 1 char doesn’t give the same power as on a g12 char. This plus the fact that mods give a lot of actual strenght for few gp while 7* gives very little strenght for a lot of gp makes it so weird and inaccurate.

    I still think that the matchmaking in ga is looking mostly fine at first (although of course can always be better) and that it’s way too early to burn everything down screaming for changes, but yeah gp could be improved a lot.

    Correct. Seem to have forgotten about that since the outcome is still lopsided. It's not using an exponential but at least a predetermined step up function. Then the ratios between these bumps and ratios in between various GP bumping game functionalities should be reassessed until it comes in line with the gameplay realities and relevant value of the resources spent to upgrade it.

    Quickly looking through my roster an unmodded g7 85 tusken is worth 10.7k GP while my greatest GP toon Thrawn at g12.5, 6e mods, 2 zetas is worth 24k gp.

    Glad we managed to discard irrelevant outcomes and came in terms on the root cause.
  • No_Try
    2439 posts Member
    No wonder someone did their homework. I was wrong to think it was widespread steps. This is exactly an exponential function which can be extrapolated to higher levels etc.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/6k4vzn/the_new_power_calc_formula_for_characters/

    Right out of the bat 3 things jump at me. Mods are undervalued. Star tiers are way overvalued. Gear is way way undervalued especially compared to resources it takes, there needs to be more granularity introduced for g12+ and gear tier exponential is low.

    Everything we talked about fluffs/leans/whateverests can be traced back to this.
  • AndySCovell
    626 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Why would you max our toons you have no Intentions of being useful (save Vets)?

    People started G12 anything they see or G11 on toons they don’t ever use. Then GA came out. First it’s that they geared up crappy toons. Then they want it adjusted to mods. Then they want it to be where they face teams without Revan or Traya.

    Newsflash. No one here has an exact replica of your account. We all make different choices. You want a bandaid or to play by different matchmaking rules because you went on a gear spree isn’t any of our faults.

    You have to be selective on every part of this game if you want to be successful at it. I’m likely facing a TI guy next round with waayyyy more G12 and Zetas than me and you don’t hear me whining.
  • Vicarious
    169 posts Member
    edited February 17
    Still no news on TW/GA matchmaking and a players so called “fluff” putting them at a disadvantage??

    Just to be clear, I am undefeated in GA 5v5 and my guild is 28/2 in TW.

    Although my matchmaking has been decent, I see a ton of players who’s matchmaking is lopsided.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Vicarious wrote: »
    I respect you Kyno and you may still remember me, but that’s some **** right there. Sorry to say.

    Players are being put at a disadvantage for leveling up characters, plain and simple. This has been an issue with TW matchmaking from day one. It’s now even a bigger problem for those who want to be competitive in Grand arena.

    I agree players should be selective when using their resources but shouldn’t be at a disadvantage because they have mods on all their chars and etc.

    TB a guild needs high GP to get the max stars. So we have one game mode where CG is saying Work on Everything, it will be beneficial and then we have two other game modes where CG is basically saying the opposite. Besides all that, Paper zombie. Does anything else really need to be said....

    Paper zombie

    so players who focused on different game modes being at a disadvantage to player who focused on being competitive in TW style of game play. I'm not sure how that is anything other than the way its supposed to be plain and simple.

    no this is different than TW matchmaking. that is an issue of itself but mostly based around matching vs multiple players.

    matching based on GP and other factors can work fine. and if they dont have teams or counter teams built for this style of game mode, thats their fault.

    Not every char are used or required for now, jawas for example.
  • Kyno
    20412 posts Moderator
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Vicarious wrote: »
    I respect you Kyno and you may still remember me, but that’s some **** right there. Sorry to say.

    Players are being put at a disadvantage for leveling up characters, plain and simple. This has been an issue with TW matchmaking from day one. It’s now even a bigger problem for those who want to be competitive in Grand arena.

    I agree players should be selective when using their resources but shouldn’t be at a disadvantage because they have mods on all their chars and etc.

    TB a guild needs high GP to get the max stars. So we have one game mode where CG is saying Work on Everything, it will be beneficial and then we have two other game modes where CG is basically saying the opposite. Besides all that, Paper zombie. Does anything else really need to be said....

    Paper zombie

    so players who focused on different game modes being at a disadvantage to player who focused on being competitive in TW style of game play. I'm not sure how that is anything other than the way its supposed to be plain and simple.

    no this is different than TW matchmaking. that is an issue of itself but mostly based around matching vs multiple players.

    matching based on GP and other factors can work fine. and if they dont have teams or counter teams built for this style of game mode, thats their fault.

    Not every char are used or required for now, jawas for example.

    Correct, but I dont think the 60-70k from a jawa team is "fluff", there are very few toons that are no longer required for mod battles (the only place that changes like this have been made, besides Capt Han.) And most of the factions that were required had decent toons that are still being used today.
  • I have some fluff in my account but I really don't see the issue here. The paper zombie argument just doesn't make sense to me as people that haven't fluffed have maxed their characters out before moving on to the next where as the ones that fluffed took them to a certain point/gear level then moved on to the next. This to me sounds more like the paper zombie than those who haven't fluffed.
  • I was done with this but I'll mention once again current matchaking is very lop sided. From day one of GA I have been matched with same GP but my opponents have always had 2-3 times Zata count then I have litterly used my entire squad vs these guys and still ended up in 7&8 ...GP is not the only answer to matchaking. If it was the answer we should have ended up in a tie. Two runners racing with the same speed and physical attribute, would cross the line at the same time. Unless one of them used steroids to join the race 2 months earlier to gain his speed while the other has trained for over a year invested in training and has built up his speed.

    What I'm having a hard time understanding is why my choice to build my roster equally across the board growing my toons is the wrong bad choice, why isn't the guy who is taking shortcuts and only powering up the best toons to matching my long term growth being the one who has made the "right choice". Then I'm being paired up with him and his maga Zata g12 toons. He hasn't put in the time and effort to reach this power level and somehow to match us is fair? Your are essentially taking meta G12 toons with zatas putting them against g10 toons and stamping it fair match because twice as many g10 toons that are "fluff" can be used against them, and they deserve to win anyway because of thier choices.

    So I ask..and answer honestly..did you guys with laser focus build your toons to vs guys who have no competitive edge against you..or did you build with laser focus to beat the guys who were constantly edging you and you were leveling your playing field. And let's take this a step further..by being matched against players who essentially have no chance against you do you feel your being properly represented. It seems like the responses are you only went hyper focus so as to kick around guys that didn't go hyper. If that is true then we are creating a climate that encourages school yard antics " give me your lunch money" Instead of encouragement of true competitive spirit "we are equal let's see who is better and more strategic, which of us know our roosters and squads better." We should move away from I built better so I deserve to win.
  • I think the people with focused rosters were like that long before tw was announced. I did some fluffing early on post game launch but after a few months I decided I wanted to max characters out before moving onto the next one. This approach actually hindered me at the beginning as newly released characters would beat the current meta but I was still finishing maxing the current meta before moving on. It especially hindered me when raids were released and I didn't have lots of squads to throw at them. I was further hindered when tb was released and maximum gp and lots of fluffing was sort of promoted but I stuck to my way of playing and finishing characters off first. Once tw was released my semi focused roster may have helped my guild slightly with matchmaking but 1 account doesn't make a huge difference in guild gp. It was only once ga was released that my way of playing gave me an advantage. So after 2+ years of being at a sort of disadvantage in game modes (including galactic war I forgot to mention) there was now a mode that gave me an advantage to the way I chose to play.
  • Now we are understanding each other... if have a similar story..I being a competitive person, didn't have this huge meta toons, I have always been 1 step behind..and still am..I wanted to compete and I don't want to be just another mirror match..so I farmed and purchased (both) toons trying to build a counter and too be different.. thinking all characters were the same and had the same chance of beating another too if developed properly. Then came CLS so over the top you could only beat him with another. I missed out on the first round..so I had to go back and build the teams needed for that...secomd round they weren't strong enough so I had to go back and boost them up. Now I'm behind so I buy maga shard packs and what do they give you tons of now "fluff" nothing you need..so you farm what you need and try to purchase what you don't have. And then it changes again Biggs and wedge. All that hard work of making lemonade from lemons now is useless.so you chase the next meta...and this cycles happens over and over..more money, more useless farming, chasing an ever changing meta, always one step behind, buying tons of fluff not what you need...you end up with 1-2 semi meta toons and tons of useless crap..you farmed and geared because you weren't given the option ifof which ones you wanted to buy you just had to buy and hope and 80% of them were garbage. You did this enough times give up and just build your garbage hoping one day it will be useful and you won't have to chase meta..you can join, play against, learn from. Even now I don't have raven or Traya. But then comes along GA and your power matches guys who just so happen to farm the best toons of the game avoiding all the pit falls you faced and have twice as many zatas and meta toons and including present meta toons. And it is fair match?
  • I have 3.6m GP, #1 in fleet arena, top 100 arena, top 3 in HSTR (recently cleared, no treya yet. Never had more than 1 win in GA because I have every toon at lvl 85, gear to 6, abilities to 4. If it wasn't for fluff, I'd complete for #1 every time. The biggest issue I have is that there is no way to unfluff.
  • So glad I "padded" my GP a long time ago with G8-9 GG, B2 and IG-100 all at 7*. Just a few gear levels to throw on those 3 toons and they are ready to go.
  • I have every toon at level 85, all but 4, that are F2P farmable, at 7*, and only 2 or 3 characters under g8. Call it fluff, call it bloat, call it mismanagement of my resources, and I'm going to continue to bloat my fat 4.5million gp toons too. Why? Because it makes absolutely no difference. I'm still undefeated in GA.

    If you are losing, don't blame the matchups, blame yourself for not knowing what you're doing. I mean that in the nicest possible way. You are not going to fix your problem unless you know what your problem is.

    If you are losing, ask yourself these questions:

    Do you have the top 7 defensive teams and fleet?

    Do you have them modded correctly with your best mods?

    Can you beat the top 7 defensive teams with what's left of your roster?

    Do you work on your mods equal to those with the same GP as you?

    If you answered any with "No" then are you working to fill those gaps?

    Most rosters are filled with holes. They are missing characters needed to complete a full team. GA is about who has the most top meta teams and top counter teams. Deplete your opponent of counters and they won't clear you. Counter all their teams and you will have no issues clearing.
  • TRanger wrote: »
    So I ask..and answer honestly..did you guys with laser focus build your toons to vs guys who have no competitive edge against you..or did you build with laser focus to beat the guys who were constantly edging you and you were leveling your playing field. And let's take this a step further..by being matched against players who essentially have no chance against you do you feel your being properly represented. It seems like the responses are you only went hyper focus so as to kick around guys that didn't go hyper. If that is true then we are creating a climate that encourages school yard antics " give me your lunch money" Instead of encouragement of true competitive spirit "we are equal let's see who is better and more strategic, which of us know our roosters and squads better." We should move away from I built better so I deserve to win.

    My roster is focused not because of GA or TW, but because it's the best way I can manage my resources for what my goals have been. My goals are, and have been: (1) maintain my top arena ranks, because it maintains my crystal income, which allows the rest of the goals to be accomplished; (2) get all new legendary/heroic characters on the first go; (3) complete all waves in tb; (4) assist my guild in getting to heroic raids quickly after they are released; (5) be able to quickly adapt to any new game mode/content that is released.

    Now people are going to say that there's no reason why leveling/equipping low level gear on characters would impact on those goals, but it can because of the mindset. I hoard pretty much everything -- crystals, credits, gear, ability mats, shop currencies -- because my mindset is to only use what I need, as opposed to just giving things out for the sake of giving them out. What this mindset has allowed me to do is 7 star R2, Thrawn, CLS, BB8, JTRey, Chewie, Revan, C3PO, and Han's Falcon on their first appearance. It's allowed me to remain top 5 in arena for years. It's allowed me to be the first in my guild to unlock and 7 star traya. It's allowed me to immediately gear up and zeta a Revan team immediately upon unlocking him the first time around. And it's allowed me to do all of this without spending money on the game. Could I randomly level and low-gear some people? Sure. But it's also the "starbucks" principle for personal finances -- plenty of people who are in debt could afford their daily coffee, but it's indicative of their mindset that something is "just a couple dollars." Too many "just a couple dollars" adds up to a whole lot of money spent and a massive credit card bill at the end of the month.
  • TRanger wrote: »
    So I ask..and answer honestly..did you guys with laser focus build your toons to vs guys who have no competitive edge against you..or did you build with laser focus to beat the guys who were constantly edging you and you were leveling your playing field. And let's take this a step further..by being matched against players who essentially have no chance against you do you feel your being properly represented. It seems like the responses are you only went hyper focus so as to kick around guys that didn't go hyper. If that is true then we are creating a climate that encourages school yard antics " give me your lunch money" Instead of encouragement of true competitive spirit "we are equal let's see who is better and more strategic, which of us know our roosters and squads better." We should move away from I built better so I deserve to win.

    My roster is focused not because of GA or TW, but because it's the best way I can manage my resources for what my goals have been. My goals are, and have been: (1) maintain my top arena ranks, because it maintains my crystal income, which allows the rest of the goals to be accomplished; (2) get all new legendary/heroic characters on the first go; (3) complete all waves in tb; (4) assist my guild in getting to heroic raids quickly after they are released; (5) be able to quickly adapt to any new game mode/content that is released.

    Now people are going to say that there's no reason why leveling/equipping low level gear on characters would impact on those goals, but it can because of the mindset. I hoard pretty much everything -- crystals, credits, gear, ability mats, shop currencies -- because my mindset is to only use what I need, as opposed to just giving things out for the sake of giving them out. What this mindset has allowed me to do is 7 star R2, Thrawn, CLS, BB8, JTRey, Chewie, Revan, C3PO, and Han's Falcon on their first appearance. It's allowed me to remain top 5 in arena for years. It's allowed me to be the first in my guild to unlock and 7 star traya. It's allowed me to immediately gear up and zeta a Revan team immediately upon unlocking him the first time around. And it's allowed me to do all of this without spending money on the game. Could I randomly level and low-gear some people? Sure. But it's also the "starbucks" principle for personal finances -- plenty of people who are in debt could afford their daily coffee, but it's indicative of their mindset that something is "just a couple dollars." Too many "just a couple dollars" adds up to a whole lot of money spent and a massive credit card bill at the end of the month.

    So again , we ask , do you want good matches or to just roll over your opponent?
  • Good match means "have a hard time but winning at the very end" for some people.
  • Too answer you Sith Hunter, I know what my problem is in GA. THIS GAME HAS NO SKILL. Lets get that out of the way first. It is still RNG dependent no matter how good you think you are..that it is how well you gear up toons..speed and damage. It comes down to game knowledge which toons can do what in any given encounter..and then how well they are modded to enhence either thier weekness or thier strength. And then this is still RNG dependent on which mods you draw. That is not skill it is pure luck. Even with maxed toons maxed mods and gear CLS still misses..and his attacks don't always produce Max damg as it is still RNG dependent. I can't invite you to my GA matches, but I count zatas and g12 for every opponent..and they do outmatch me 2:1 the rest of mine is alot of toons not geared up that high and makes up the my GP. Your not the first person to suggest I suck at this game...on the contrary I play my hand the best I can. You can not overcome that. My opponent has plenty of g12 toons and zatas to set and use them all on def and offense..I must decide to either use mine on def or use on off..I can't do both. Plenty of toons have not been completed chasing an ever changing meta and farming always coming up short....I can't continue to pour money weekly into a game buying my short falls. I have tried and it is way to expensive and still after plenty if cash you still are RNG dependent. Your $20 bill bought a lot of garbage that didn't help and now sets and collects dust. You use and buy energy but it doesn't always produce all you need. How often have you spent every last crystal and energy and still need those last 2 salvage pieces. Prove to me how skill involves you owning OP toons well geared and zata. matched against someone who has 2X less then you. Do that and I will say.."yeah ok I totally suck at this game. Yes I'm working on the toons..but to much me against someone who already has them and not the ones like me trying to get there doesn't make the match fair.

    I would have to flip this and say maybe you are not as good as you thought if you need to be matched or placed into a match where you must totally overpower your opponents where a win is all but garanteed and with twice as many zatas and OP meta toons fully geared. My GP is based on all of my toons not the top 40-50 maxed and zata, with the bottom 100 sitting at lvl 0. I find it cowardly. And I ask how come it is so hard to be matched or face someone with a similar rooster and GP not just GP.
    Or you just deserve to win because you have the better toons maxed. And because of such you shouldn't be placed to match against someone who like you have very few toons, maxed meta and zata, someone who is more near your level of competition.
  • TRanger wrote: »
    Too answer you Sith Hunter, I know what my problem is in GA. THIS GAME HAS NO SKILL. Lets get that out of the way first. It is still RNG dependent no matter how good you think you are..that it is how well you gear up toons..speed and damage. It comes down to game knowledge which toons can do what in any given encounter..and then how well they are modded to enhence either thier weekness or thier strength. And then this is still RNG dependent on which mods you draw. That is not skill it is pure luck. Even with maxed toons maxed mods and gear CLS still misses..and his attacks don't always produce Max damg as it is still RNG dependent. I can't invite you to my GA matches, but I count zatas and g12 for every opponent..and they do outmatch me 2:1 the rest of mine is alot of toons not geared up that high and makes up the my GP. Your not the first person to suggest I suck at this game...on the contrary I play my hand the best I can. You can not overcome that. My opponent has plenty of g12 toons and zatas to set and use them all on def and offense..I must decide to either use mine on def or use on off..I can't do both. Plenty of toons have not been completed chasing an ever changing meta and farming always coming up short....I can't continue to pour money weekly into a game buying my short falls. I have tried and it is way to expensive and still after plenty if cash you still are RNG dependent. Your $20 bill bought a lot of garbage that didn't help and now sets and collects dust. You use and buy energy but it doesn't always produce all you need. How often have you spent every last crystal and energy and still need those last 2 salvage pieces. Prove to me how skill involves you owning OP toons well geared and zata. matched against someone who has 2X less then you. Do that and I will say.."yeah ok I totally suck at this game. Yes I'm working on the toons..but to much me against someone who already has them and not the ones like me trying to get there doesn't make the match fair.

    I would have to flip this and say maybe you are not as good as you thought if you need to be matched or placed into a match where you must totally overpower your opponents where a win is all but garanteed and with twice as many zatas and OP meta toons fully geared. My GP is based on all of my toons not the top 40-50 maxed and zata, with the bottom 100 sitting at lvl 0. I find it cowardly. And I ask how come it is so hard to be matched or face someone with a similar rooster and GP not just GP.
    Or you just deserve to win because you have the better toons maxed. And because of such you shouldn't be placed to match against someone who like you have very few toons, maxed meta and zata, someone who is more near your level of competition.

    You say this "game has no skill", but then you go on about "game knowledge" and "which toons can do what in any given encounter..and then how well they are modded to enhence either thier weekness or thier strength." By definition, that is what skill is.

    The fact that you blame RNGesus as the reason you lose is completely asinine. If you use an ability that has a 30% CC and you fail to crit, and you lose because of it, then you clearly fail to see the bigger picture. This game is a strategy game based on many factors, resource management is top on that list. I try and give you advice on how to improve your game, but you take offense and lash out like a child.

    I find it rather amusing that you try and "flip this", monsterizing someone you know nothing about.

    To help you see more clearly, I said I was undefeated, I never said I totally overpowered any of my opponents. In fact, I have been out g12'd, out zeta'd, and out modded in most of my matches. I also won without having Revan as I'm 100% F2P.

    The skill part is knowing I can beat any team with the right counters and then actually farming those counters. I'm also the GL of one of the top TW guilds in this game, I give advice to my guild and we win the majority of our GAs despite being under GP'd. We do it by practicing our counter in arena and and setting strong defensive teams.

    On a more serious note, if you want true feedback and advice on how to improve your game overall, DM me and I'll look over your roster for you.
  • TRanger
    229 posts Member
    edited February 21
    No I wasn't lashing out as too name. I only named you in acknowledgement of to answer your question. Then to lengthy explain why. It wasn't directly pointed at you. Please don't take it as so, Sith Hunter! And congrats on your accomplishments.

    I mentioned flipping as in current state of matching excuses. Nothing to do with flipping you directly. Just the constant reminders of how I suck at this game and those who use that slogan, and as you mentioned don't even know me, or the struggles I have faced in GA.
  • TRanger
    229 posts Member
    edited February 21
    However after reading my initial post I see how it was misconstrued as an attack on you. Which was not the intention.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Place 2 Olympic level runners in a race, the can both have the best mile times and may even be close.

    One runs marathons and the other shorter races.

    They are equals athletically and in many respects, but one will have a clear advantage in a marathon.

    It's about how you build your roster and how you develop in the game. If you developed more competitively or not. That's the players choice.

    Point me at an instance in this game where having a wide roster of older toons is a benefit
  • Gauderio
    38 posts Member
    edited February 21
    You guys have it all wrong.

    GA, like every other game mode, is designed to benefit those who spend the most.

    The matchmaking is wai. It pairs up broad shallow rosters with narrow top heavy rosters on purpose. If you put all the whales in to fight each other they would all be angry that they couldn't take first place on everything, every time. Even in the game mode supposedly designed to match up similar rosters to test "skill". To keep them interested and paying they have to feel like they're getting something in every game mode for their investment.

    It keeps the lights on so if you choose not to pay you can have a free game with continual development.

    CG only has to balance towards f2p just enough to keep a critical mass that p2w always feels worth it.
  • Well said!
  • TRanger
    229 posts Member
    edited February 21
    And there is a difference between skill and knowledge...you can have the skill to play a basketball game and hit the net every time..but lack the knowledge on how too play the game. Or have a knowledge on how the game is played and lack the skill to hit the net constantly. Skill and knowledge are way two different things.

    The coach has the knowledge and the team has the skill..though the skill will very from player to player.
    Post edited by TRanger on
  • TRanger wrote: »
    Two runners racing with the same speed and physical attribute, would cross the line at the same time. Unless one of them used steroids to join the race 2 months earlier to gain his speed while the other has trained for over a year invested in training and has built up his speed.

    What I'm having a hard time understanding is why my choice to build my roster equally across the board growing my toons is the wrong bad choice, why isn't the guy who is taking shortcuts and only powering up the best toons to matching my long term growth being the one who has made the "right choice". Then I'm being paired up with him and his maga Zata g12 toons. He hasn't put in the time and effort to reach this power level and somehow to match us is fair? Your are essentially taking meta G12 toons with zatas putting them against g10 toons and stamping it fair match because twice as many g10 toons that are "fluff" can be used against them, and they deserve to win anyway because of thier choices.

    So I ask..and answer honestly..did you guys with laser focus build your toons to vs guys who have no competitive edge against you..or did you build with laser focus to beat the guys who were constantly edging you and you were leveling your playing field. And let's take this a step further..by being matched against players who essentially have no chance against you do you feel your being properly represented. It seems like the responses are you only went hyper focus so as to kick around guys that didn't go hyper. If that is true then we are creating a climate that encourages school yard antics " give me your lunch money" Instead of encouragement of true competitive spirit "we are equal let's see who is better and more strategic, which of us know our roosters and squads better." We should move away from I built better so I deserve to win.

    So your two paragraph I disagree. If you have the same speed and physical attributes and invest in training the same amount of time, one can end up finishing the line before the other. It than comes down to who prepared better while training. So they would not always end up the same because their choices will eventually separate them. Same with this game. We start out the same but our choices make us change. Example if you get 20 characters and level them all up the same time but I choose to use the resources I get on characters I see that I would have a purpose for than I end up with more G12/legendary/heroic characters. Which we always stay around the same GP but our choices will make me stand out against you in TW/GA/Arena/Fleet battle. Resources are very limited past gear 7. I see no reason to even level a character up if they wont help me in my game play. If I cant use them in TW/GA/Arena/Fleet and only benefit would be TB I rather not waste the time. I had my royal guard at 350 shards and only rank 5 because until the emperor shuttle I didnt see any purpose for him. Now I will most likely gear/star him up.

    Last paragraph is simple. I dont see why I would level any character up that I would not use. Its not like your whole roster can be maxed out unless you are dropping loads of money. So if I cant max out a toon to G10-12 than I see no point in having them at G7-8.





  • I have 3.6m GP, #1 in fleet arena, top 100 arena, top 3 in HSTR (recently cleared, no treya yet. Never had more than 1 win in GA because I have every toon at lvl 85, gear to 6, abilities to 4. If it wasn't for fluff, I'd complete for #1 every time. The biggest issue I have is that there is no way to unfluff.

    My first question is how do you have them at 85? I have 61 characters at lvl 1-70. I have 38 at lvl 1, I currently have 23million credits that I could level up. That is only 4 characters I could get from 1 to 85. My GP is 2.3m. My next question is why did you level everyone to 85 and Gear 6 and abilities to 3? I could never understand people who want to level all their characters. Even early when you start out it makes sense to stop leveling/gearing characters you dont see in your future. For instance I used royal guard but stopped at 5 star and lvl 70 because I got better empire/dark side characters that I thought would work out better in my long term plan.
  • So again , we ask , do you want good matches or to just roll over your opponent?

    Most of the GA events, I've had one round that was an easy win, one round that was a comfortable win, and one round that I won where there was a definite risk of losing if I messed things up. I'm fine with that for a week-long event. And frankly, one of the things I like about GA is that I don't necessary have to face the same 5 meta teams constantly -- I had one where my opponent put a not-so-great droid team on defense, and I in turn got to use my g9/10 jawas as a full squad to beat it (did I have better options? sure, but I was able to have some fun with it). So the answer to your question is that I'm pretty much ok with the matches I've gotten so far.
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