[MEGA] General Grievous’ Leadership and Damage Clarifications

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    SiFuLee wrote: »
    Revan just got alot better on defense, these droids don't stand a chance even at 7* fully geared/modded

    "Fixed a bug where Jedi Knight Revan's "Direct Focus" would not properly target units without Taunt, Marked, or Damage Immunity."

    Again what was the point of this rework?????
    Revan will no longer mark taunting units. The units that usually taunt are tanks, so Revan will now actively avoid targeting tanks and instead go after squishier attackers or supports on purpose. If you want to improve the ai on defense, fine. Just don’t do it for one meta team everyone is sick of.
  • Ultra
    11578 posts Moderator
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    I want to to know just how bad the mods on that Revan team were in the video you gave us.
    The mods weren’t bad at all.

    In fact, there were no mods on them to begin with!
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    CG Brass: “engage damage control protocols!”

    CG Lacky: “damage control protocols engaged”
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    rc8gww057sr9.jpeg
  • AKAren
    40 posts Member
    edited February 2019
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    AKAren wrote: »
    Daishiva wrote: »
    I have 5/6 g12 and 3 health sets with two 6e health primary mods and I only have 60k. They must have some real good health secondary stats on all their mods as well.

    Dishonest marketing showing a team with completely optimal mods that will take players weeks to farm with how tough mod farming is.


    GG gets almost 60% of his health with 4 pieces of g12/g12+ gear. At 45k+ health, health % secondaries are the way to go. There’s no way to get that high with straight # health secondaries.

    I have a health set with 2.5 to 4.5% secondaries which would have put GG around 69k health (only 1 6 dot and not in a health primary) so his health is possible to get high, but I’m now saving those g12 pieces.

    5 x g12 pieces = 25,750 out of 45,627 max health.
    52.37% health in the set I had reserved for him = 69,522

    It's not really important at this point @AKAren but thought I'd let you know that actually you wouldn't be getting that high health unfortunately. That's because the only part that 52.37% from your mods applies to is the health from pre-gear 12 peices. So your total health calculation is roughly 19877 + 19877 * 0.5237 + 25750 = 56037.

    The actual calculation is a bit more convoluted as the 16*40 = 640 health you get from the strength on the multitool is infact included when calculating the % added from mods.. but that's a pretty small difference of arround 320 health or so.

    Anyways, like I said, not important but thought I'd let you know incase you do gear up and mod and get less health than expected at the end of it.

    Edit: rather important miss typing of one of the numbers, sorry.

    Thanks; Good to know. So health % doesn’t calculate off of base health, or just off of pre g12 health? Is that he same for speed and speed mods?

    Is there somewhere that shows how everything is calculated in the game? I obviously have some bad info.
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    GGs lead (defense part) being useless is even worse news than it being broken.
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    I think we all need to hit them where it really hurts, and NO ONE buy any Droideka packs. They are simply ignoring an obvious problem and deflecting it.
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    CG Brass: “engage damage control protocols!”

    CG Lacky: “damage control protocols engaged”


    More like:

    CG #1: "Everyone is up in arms about the Finn Leadership rework. We need to stop the complaining."

    CG #2: "I know -- let's distract them with a horrible rework of an entire squad. That will stop the complaining about Finn."

    The think tank is on to something....
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    Players: GG’s leadership is broken. There appears to be no change in damage so the defense penetration must not be working.
    CG: It’s working. It just seems the same because the defense penetration is so small it may as well not be there. It’s pretty pointless.
    Players: What?
    CG: What?
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    I just want to know what goes on in their meetings. Were the devs seriously that delusional that they thought players would be happy with this? I REALLY don't want to believe they're purposefully this deceptive, but what's the alternative?
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
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    Why is it so hard for anyone that works for CG to realize how damaging these blunders (or worse, intentional scamming of the player base) are? The decision makers are so out of touch with the right way to treat customers and the culture there must be so oppressive that the devs don’t have a voice. It’s an appalling lack of competence in this day and age of customer experience being so important. We are your customers, treat us with respect and stop lying to us. This was blatant false advertisement. A company doing what was done in many other industries would be sued out of business for this type of activity. Fix this... stop making stupid decisions. Put your players at least in the same realm as you profits in terms of importance. Your little marketing lies should cost someone their jobs because of the missed opportunity. I haven’t seen this much talk of refunds in a while.. shame on you CG for letting this happen again.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
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    CaptainRex wrote: »
    I just want to know what goes on in their meetings. Were the devs seriously that delusional that they thought players would be happy with this? I REALLY don't want to believe they're purposefully this deceptive, but what's the alternative?

    From the minds that thought banning 24 toons in TW was going to make it "Fun". I'm all for them not holding any more creative meetings
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    Should we just merge the GG rework debacle and the Finn nerf in one section since theyre basically issues that are playing off of each other?

    Finn got nerfed (under the ruse of caring about a trash raid), to back people into a corner to invest in GG's entourage. Now that investment is moot because this is probably the most disastrous rework done for a faction I've seen so far. Which will result in people having to invest in ANOTHER faction released in the foreseeable future to reliably counter Revan's overwhelming and everlasting reign of darkness.

    The amount of false advertising for this team literally screams Snake Oil Salesman lol.
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    CaptainRex wrote: »
    I just want to know what goes on in their meetings. Were the devs seriously that delusional that they thought players would be happy with this? I REALLY don't want to believe they're purposefully this deceptive, but what's the alternative?

    From the minds that thought banning 24 toons in TW was going to make it "Fun". I'm all for them not holding any more creative meetings

    I'm pretty sure the only people having creative meetings at CG are the marketing people figuring out new ways to squeeze money out of the players.
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    "As such, Grievous' damage will look different at the start of a battle compared with the end of the battle." If you go back and watch the CG footage, you'll see that all his big damage hits were late in the battle when hardly anyone else was left. His damage ramps up as the battle goes on due to his unique. He was never going to hit for 50k on his basic to start the battle.
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    AKAren wrote: »
    AKAren wrote: »
    Daishiva wrote: »
    I have 5/6 g12 and 3 health sets with two 6e health primary mods and I only have 60k. They must have some real good health secondary stats on all their mods as well.

    Dishonest marketing showing a team with completely optimal mods that will take players weeks to farm with how tough mod farming is.


    GG gets almost 60% of his health with 4 pieces of g12/g12+ gear. At 45k+ health, health % secondaries are the way to go. There’s no way to get that high with straight # health secondaries.

    I have a health set with 2.5 to 4.5% secondaries which would have put GG around 69k health (only 1 6 dot and not in a health primary) so his health is possible to get high, but I’m now saving those g12 pieces.

    5 x g12 pieces = 25,750 out of 45,627 max health.
    52.37% health in the set I had reserved for him = 69,522

    It's not really important at this point @AKAren but thought I'd let you know that actually you wouldn't be getting that high health unfortunately. That's because the only part that 52.37% from your mods applies to is the health from pre-gear 12 peices. So your total health calculation is roughly 19877 + 19877 * 0.5237 + 25750 = 56037.

    The actual calculation is a bit more convoluted as the 16*40 = 640 health you get from the strength on the multitool is infact included when calculating the % added from mods.. but that's a pretty small difference of arround 320 health or so.

    Anyways, like I said, not important but thought I'd let you know incase you do gear up and mod and get less health than expected at the end of it.

    Edit: rather important miss typing of one of the numbers, sorry.

    Thanks; Good to know. So health % doesn’t calculate off of base health, or just off of pre g12 health? Is that he same for speed and speed mods?

    Is there somewhere that shows how everything is calculated in the game? I obviously have some bad info.

    Yeah that's correct, any % based additions from mods only apply to the stats at the last completed gear level + any stats added by the three "primary stats" - strength, agility and tactics.
    That also applies with speed so once we get to g13 speed sets will factor in the 12 speed from the g12+ pieces which currently isn't factored into the speed set bonus.
    Where this information come from.... don't know to be honest but it's brought up on the forums now and again in longer discussions on modding and mentioned on a few of the websites that have mod guides like gaming-fans.com

    Re: GG and the quoted 65000 health from CG_crumbs post.
    CG claim they ran him at 65 k health. I assume they use g12+5.
    Unmodded max health = 45627
    Flat health added from g12 pieces = 6250+6250+6500+6500 = 25,500
    Giving a base health for mods % to apply to = 20127
    CG claim 2 health primaries and 3 sets giving a % gain from mods of 30+16+16=62%
    health added by mod set bonuses and primaries = 0.62*20127 = 12478
    Using this you calculate the health added from secondaries = 65000 - 45627 - 12478 = 6895
    To get that amount added from secondaries you need 6895/20127 = 34%
    which means an average of 5.6% health secondary per mod or 1150 flat per mod or some combination of the two
    Those are some pretty nice mods... I mean I've occasionally focused on health secondaries and I have 3 health secondaries over 5% and 23 with over 1000 flat health. So while it's doable I don't think it's realistic for most people. But others undoubtedly have much better mods than me.
    Regarding his damage output, at 65k health on his basic he should be doing 20% of that at the start of the match against an enemy with no debuffs, so about 13,000 damage with a variance of 500. That's before damage mitigation which on an average GMY is about 30%. GMY's armor will be just over 20% after 50% of the defense has been removed. But GG's armor penetration should be more than that so the 13k should be about what you see against GMY without debufs for a non-critical hit at the start of the battle.
    Would have to go back and re-watch some of the footage to see if the damage really was that low at the start of the match... but it's not an especially exciting number that's for sure.
  • HK22
    645 posts Member
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    CaptainRex wrote: »
    I just want to know what goes on in their meetings. Were the devs seriously that delusional that they thought players would be happy with this? I REALLY don't want to believe they're purposefully this deceptive, but what's the alternative?

    Wait, there are meetings? I thought they just listed a bunch of random ideas on a wall and threw darts to see what ideas they will implement.
  • AKAren
    40 posts Member
    edited February 2019
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    AKAren wrote: »
    AKAren wrote: »
    Daishiva wrote: »
    I have 5/6 g12 and 3 health sets with two 6e health primary mods and I only have 60k. They must have some real good health secondary stats on all their mods as well.

    Dishonest marketing showing a team with completely optimal mods that will take players weeks to farm with how tough mod farming is.


    GG gets almost 60% of his health with 4 pieces of g12/g12+ gear. At 45k+ health, health % secondaries are the way to go. There’s no way to get that high with straight # health secondaries.

    I have a health set with 2.5 to 4.5% secondaries which would have put GG around 69k health (only 1 6 dot and not in a health primary) so his health is possible to get high, but I’m now saving those g12 pieces.

    5 x g12 pieces = 25,750 out of 45,627 max health.
    52.37% health in the set I had reserved for him = 69,522

    It's not really important at this point @AKAren but thought I'd let you know that actually you wouldn't be getting that high health unfortunately. That's because the only part that 52.37% from your mods applies to is the health from pre-gear 12 peices. So your total health calculation is roughly 19877 + 19877 * 0.5237 + 25750 = 56037.

    The actual calculation is a bit more convoluted as the 16*40 = 640 health you get from the strength on the multitool is infact included when calculating the % added from mods.. but that's a pretty small difference of arround 320 health or so.

    Anyways, like I said, not important but thought I'd let you know incase you do gear up and mod and get less health than expected at the end of it.

    Edit: rather important miss typing of one of the numbers, sorry.

    Thanks; Good to know. So health % doesn’t calculate off of base health, or just off of pre g12 health? Is that he same for speed and speed mods?

    Is there somewhere that shows how everything is calculated in the game? I obviously have some bad info.

    Yeah that's correct, any % based additions from mods only apply to the stats at the last completed gear level + any stats added by the three "primary stats" - strength, agility and tactics.
    That also applies with speed so once we get to g13 speed sets will factor in the 12 speed from the g12+ pieces which currently isn't factored into the speed set bonus.
    Where this information come from.... don't know to be honest but it's brought up on the forums now and again in longer discussions on modding and mentioned on a few of the websites that have mod guides like gaming-fans.com

    Re: GG and the quoted 65000 health from CG_crumbs post.
    CG claim they ran him at 65 k health. I assume they use g12+5.
    Unmodded max health = 45627
    Flat health added from g12 pieces = 6250+6250+6500+6500 = 25,500
    Giving a base health for mods % to apply to = 20127
    CG claim 2 health primaries and 3 sets giving a % gain from mods of 30+16+16=62%
    health added by mod set bonuses and primaries = 0.62*20127 = 12478
    Using this you calculate the health added from secondaries = 65000 - 45627 - 12478 = 6895
    To get that amount added from secondaries you need 6895/20127 = 34%
    which means an average of 5.6% health secondary per mod or 1150 flat per mod or some combination of the two
    Those are some pretty nice mods... I mean I've occasionally focused on health secondaries and I have 3 health secondaries over 5% and 23 with over 1000 flat health. So while it's doable I don't think it's realistic for most people. But others undoubtedly have much better mods than me.
    Regarding his damage output, at 65k health on his basic he should be doing 20% of that at the start of the match against an enemy with no debuffs, so about 13,000 damage with a variance of 500. That's before damage mitigation which on an average GMY is about 30%. GMY's armor will be just over 20% after 50% of the defense has been removed. But GG's armor penetration should be more than that so the 13k should be about what you see against GMY without debufs for a non-critical hit at the start of the battle.
    Would have to go back and re-watch some of the footage to see if the damage really was that low at the start of the match... but it's not an especially exciting number that's for sure.

    Thank you for taking the time to explain that; I really appreciate it.

    Edit; also, the 6895 must be from maxed possible mod secondaries, since circle, cross, & triangle can’t have % health secondaries if they are health primaries. So.... yikes.
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    There are really 2 problems I see with this rework:

    1) The hype. There wasn’t this much criticism about the BH rework, and they are honestly about the same level as these droids. The difference is how they were marketed and hyped up. Nobody billed the BH as being meta crushers (was it Traya at the time?).

    2) Poor synergy. Grievous hurting his teammates is pretty awesome. Except B1, because there is no way to recover those stacks and it hurts the rest of his abilities. B1 should have been immune to all % health effects.

    Another example is Magnaguard. His taunt completely ruins the concept of Droideka getting marked with damage immunity. There should have been another unique that removes his taunt if an ally is marked by Grievous, and giving 100 bonuses if he is the one getting marked. Another example is the crit bonuses with a lot of characters that can’t critically hit, or defense down bonus with an attacker that ignores defense. Wasted buffs.

    Point is the team has a bunch of good, interesting characters that work together as duos, but work against each other quite often when paired as a full unit of 5.
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    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Did CG just admit their doctored garbage footage was wrong?
    I think we're making progress people!

    No, they just implied none of us know how to mod characters and that we didn't read the abilities. Which is really kind of amusing, since many of us have been playing this game longer than many of them have worked there. They basically said "You're playing wrong"...without admitting anything.

    Well played CG. Thanks for the misleading videos - and then adding an insult on top of it. I appreciate the continued confirmation that going f2p in August of 2017 was the correct decision, as your executive team continues to turn a once good game into a mindless, money sucking grind. I will go to bed this evening and sleep very well - amazed that some of you can do the same.

    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Exar_Kunbaya
    5 posts Member
    edited February 2019
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    Man what a truckload of false advertising and misleading... Wait... Oh, so that was the whole intent! Thanks for caring for your player base CG!!! You are doing a wonderful job! 😏
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    What’s the point of grievous unique marking droids and self cleansing if Revans Mark is uncleansable? LoL about as useless as his leadership granting -50% defense.
    IGN: RANKMAN
    Line: xSNAKEMAN
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    I really appreciate the open communication demonstrated in this post.

    ^^russian spam robot
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    SNAKEMAN wrote: »
    What’s the point of grievous unique marking droids and self cleansing if Revans Mark is uncleansable? LoL about as useless as his leadership granting -50% defense.

    How about the whole rework in general? #reworktherework
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
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    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    SNAKEMAN wrote: »
    What’s the point of grievous unique marking droids and self cleansing if Revans Mark is uncleansable? LoL about as useless as his leadership granting -50% defense.

    How about the whole rework in general? #reworktherework

    I think making B1 more resilient by ignoring %health effects and making GG do 20%-50% more damage to Jedi as his ally’s die could help.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Gorem
    1190 posts Member
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    Remove the fact that GG kills his own team, that ability is only there to prevent any LS droids being on the team, or non sep droids in general. It shouldn't exist.

    it can kill two of the droids on his team. An ability that's not supposed to kill can actually kill two of them.

    Besides that he and Droideka don't do enough damage. And Droideka's main ability can be... removed really easily or entirely ignored. lol.
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