SWGOH Shard Bullying!

Replies

  • VonZant wrote: »
    A competative individual game mode should not allow players to collude or fix games or block others out by locking matches, etc. It should be a true individual game mode. Period.

    I'd agree in concept. It's a poorly designed game mode for individual competition.

    That said, its a great design for a game mode intended to make EA money......
  • Nihion wrote: »
    mlb1399 wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    "Entitlement to a ranking position is a falsity..." Yet that's exactly what shard chats enable.

    The entire problem with them in a nutshell. OP earned rank #1 by the actual rules & gameplay restrictions of SWGOH, but because OP didn't meet some outside non-affiliated group's ridiculous metric they get punished and pushed farther down than they would normally.

    I would almost be tempted to agree - except that the "ridiculous metric" is simply being respectful of others, not wasting crystals and trying to maximize crystal payouts for as many people as possible. That hardly sounds "ridiculous".

    Almost ANYONE can "earn rank #1 by the actual rules and gameplay" - especially now that 90% of the player base has (and apparently run) Revan. So the fact that the OP can make it to #1 doesn't entitle him to anything - in fact, it just supports the point that something other than simply the ability to make it to #1 should help determine payout distribution.

    A civil and ordered "taking turns" and respecting other people's payouts seems to work for many shards/players (that which you referred to as a "ridiculous metric"). The only players that seem to take issue with it are those who think that simply because they can beat the #1 team on occasion, they are entitled to stomp on other people payouts and finish #1 whenever they feel like it or whenever it's convenient for them.

    IMHO, thinking you can do whatever you want, without regard to others or their payouts and then acting surprised when they retaliate for your self-centered behavior is a "ridiculous metric".

    I don’t know if you’ve viewed the posts by his shard members, but this is definitely bullying and I don’t see why you want to justify it.

    There’s a difference between bullying and just not letting someone into a chat. That’s not bullying. Some people just need to grow a pair

    “Gg, enjoy the beating!”

    Yeah, that’s bullying. It’s just like how people wanted to force people to set defense in GA. By gathering the entire shard to deliberately push him out of quality rewards, it limits his ability to play and grow, so you know, the point of the game. And I don’t care what he supposedly did or how bad it was, these people have no right to say the things they are about him, it’s rude and I see it as bullying. Btw, if you told someone to “grow a pair” in school, you would be considered a bully.

    I'm sure every grade schooler would rather be punched and hit by their bullies rather than finish outside the top 10 in SWGOH arena. The horror.

    Get some perspective.

  • Jarvind wrote: »
    Let me guess, you're in your early 20's and you're used to getting a participation medal for being horrible at something, right?

    Man, not that you don't have a point, but are you really trotting out this tired "entitled millennial" crap? Even if it were accurate, it'd still make you a bigger tool than OP by a factor of ten.

    +1. Let's leave the mythological entitled millennial stuff at the door.
  • Nihion wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    "Entitlement to a ranking position is a falsity..." Yet that's exactly what shard chats enable.

    The entire problem with them in a nutshell. OP earned rank #1 by the actual rules & gameplay restrictions of SWGOH, but because OP didn't meet some outside non-affiliated group's ridiculous metric they get punished and pushed farther down than they would normally.

    I would almost be tempted to agree - except that the "ridiculous metric" is simply being respectful of others, not wasting crystals and trying to maximize crystal payouts for as many people as possible. That hardly sounds "ridiculous".

    Almost ANYONE can "earn rank #1 by the actual rules and gameplay" - especially now that 90% of the player base has (and apparently run) Revan. So the fact that the OP can make it to #1 doesn't entitle him to anything - in fact, it just supports the point that something other than simply the ability to make it to #1 should help determine payout distribution.

    A civil and ordered "taking turns" and respecting other people's payouts seems to work for many shards/players (that which you referred to as a "ridiculous metric"). The only players that seem to take issue with it are those who think that simply because they can beat the #1 team on occasion, they are entitled to stomp on other people payouts and finish #1 whenever they feel like it or whenever it's convenient for them.

    IMHO, thinking you can do whatever you want, without regard to others or their payouts and then acting surprised when they retaliate for your self-centered behavior is a "ridiculous metric".

    I don’t know if you’ve viewed the posts by his shard members, but this is definitely bullying and I don’t see why you want to justify it.

    Wow. Did you even read the comment you quoted? Or just build that strawman without even looking? :D

    I was responding to the specific points made by the post I quoted. Honestly, I am avoiding getting into the "he said/he said" silliness of the specifics of the OP's situation, because there have been numerous conflicting versions - including several "omissions" by both sides.

    I am not trying to "justify bullying". Reread my post. Honestly, I am not even sure how you came up with that from what I typed and who I was responding to.


    I mean, you are justifying what his shard is doing...

    You mean... playing the game?
  • VonZant
    3843 posts Member
    Amrael wrote: »
    Why would the rest of his roster matter if he has a team that can take 1st? Also, he already stated his payout is at a time that doesn't disrupt anyone. I had the same issue. I wasn't allowed in and was targeted. I moved my payout to a time that was not busy and no one from the shard chat had, and they left me alone. I don't understand targeting people when they pose no threat, especially if they don't have a great team. It is one more easy team to beat when you make your climb.

    So I can enlighten you as to why chats defend the top 10 against non-members even if no one has a payout during a specific hour.

    It's a numbers game. In shards with large chats (20+ members), they are already sharing most payouts during the day. They are all queued up waiting to move forward. Anyone outside person that climbs is hitting those chat members back and potentially costing them crystals by forcing them to refresh. No one wants to spend additional crystals, even if it's only 50. Therefore, its better to discourage climbing by defending the top 10 against all non-chat members. If those people are crystal starved, normally they give up and stop climbing. If they are allowed to climb without resistance, then they will continue to do so.



    Did you read the thread? We know why they do it.

    It should not be allowed.
  • Until Revan hit the second time I was way down in arena, this allowed me to get top 20, maybe a top 10 now and then I watch when people move up and down and avoid hitting others who are climbing. Seems as long as I don't hit others when they climb, they don't hit you and let some of the new Revan players have their place in the top while it lasts. I know it will be over soon and accept that. Maybe it would be different if I pushed for top 10 instead of top 20, but they don't seem to target the new players and the top 50 are about the same every day. I think it depends on the shard and how flexible they are and when payouts are.
  • VonZant wrote: »
    Did you read the thread? We know why they do it.

    Sure I read it. I answered because of the following:

    1. No one stated why shard chats target people who have empty payouts.
    2. ,Multiple people clearly stated they didn't understand why people would be targeted if their payout was not conflicting with others. So apparently, they didn't know why it happens.
    VonZant wrote: »
    It should not be allowed.

    In the context of the current game mode design your statement doesn't make sense. EA designed this mode so people would battle each other for crystals. Those people could also spend additional crystals in order to hit more or hit faster. This game mode is entirely about the cost benefit analysis of earning a net surplus of crystals while expending the least amount of said currency.

    The people who do that the best win the most crystals. The people who do that the worst, make these threads.

    In the absence of shard chats, this would happen naturally. Before my shard chats were created, I hit every single person who hit me with the exception of the person who removed me from one after my payout. If shard chats didn't exist, I would revert to the same behavior. I am a spender, and in my shards, there are very few others who spend. Not to mention, I have great mods, so I am a lower win rate than many others. Therefore, in the long run game theory dictates that by hitting all people back, people will avoid me and hit others instead. I'll spend less crystals in the long run. Many others play by this same game theory.

    From that aspect, shard chats actually are for the greater good, because instead of annoying 20+ people on my shard who climb to the top 10 on a daily basis (and also happen to be in my chat), I only annoy the one or two who make it to the top 10 that aren't.




  • Nihion wrote: »

    Eliminate shard chats, eliminate toxic people taking toxic approaches to the game. Although it’s probably too late, once word got out about deletion of chats, I’m sure phone numbers would be passed around. But it’s true that shard chats enable bad people to do mean things. Getting rid of shard chats would be an easier fix than getting rid of bad people.

    So your approach is basically: hey, some people drink and drive - let’s ban all cars, some jerks bully folks on the internet- let’s ban all computers&networks, etc..
    You do understand that you sound ridiculous and illogical?

    The vast majority of the chats work well and benefit everyone.
  • CHFC22
    732 posts Member
    vegainz wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »

    Eliminate shard chats, eliminate toxic people taking toxic approaches to the game. Although it’s probably too late, once word got out about deletion of chats, I’m sure phone numbers would be passed around. But it’s true that shard chats enable bad people to do mean things. Getting rid of shard chats would be an easier fix than getting rid of bad people.

    So your approach is basically: hey, some people drink and drive - let’s ban all cars, some jerks bully folks on the internet- let’s ban all computers&networks, etc..
    You do understand that you sound ridiculous and illogical?

    The vast majority of the chats work well and benefit everyone.

    They only benefit everyone if anyone can join, and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • VonZant
    3843 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    mlb1399 wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    "Entitlement to a ranking position is a falsity..." Yet that's exactly what shard chats enable.

    The entire problem with them in a nutshell. OP earned rank #1 by the actual rules & gameplay restrictions of SWGOH, but because OP didn't meet some outside non-affiliated group's ridiculous metric they get punished and pushed farther down than they would normally.

    I would almost be tempted to agree - except that the "ridiculous metric" is simply being respectful of others, not wasting crystals and trying to maximize crystal payouts for as many people as possible. That hardly sounds "ridiculous".

    Almost ANYONE can "earn rank #1 by the actual rules and gameplay" - especially now that 90% of the player base has (and apparently run) Revan. So the fact that the OP can make it to #1 doesn't entitle him to anything - in fact, it just supports the point that something other than simply the ability to make it to #1 should help determine payout distribution.

    A civil and ordered "taking turns" and respecting other people's payouts seems to work for many shards/players (that which you referred to as a "ridiculous metric"). The only players that seem to take issue with it are those who think that simply because they can beat the #1 team on occasion, they are entitled to stomp on other people payouts and finish #1 whenever they feel like it or whenever it's convenient for them.

    IMHO, thinking you can do whatever you want, without regard to others or their payouts and then acting surprised when they retaliate for your self-centered behavior is a "ridiculous metric".

    I don’t know if you’ve viewed the posts by his shard members, but this is definitely bullying and I don’t see why you want to justify it.

    There’s a difference between bullying and just not letting someone into a chat. That’s not bullying. Some people just need to grow a pair

    “Gg, enjoy the beating!”

    Yeah, that’s bullying. It’s just like how people wanted to force people to set defense in GA. By gathering the entire shard to deliberately push him out of quality rewards, it limits his ability to play and grow, so you know, the point of the game. And I don’t care what he supposedly did or how bad it was, these people have no right to say the things they are about him, it’s rude and I see it as bullying. Btw, if you told someone to “grow a pair” in school, you would be considered a bully.

    I'm sure every grade schooler would rather be punched and hit by their bullies rather than finish outside the top 10 in SWGOH arena. The horror.

    Get some perspective.

    First of all, what?
    Second, I’m not talking about just placing outside of top ten. They have permanently ruined his chances at performing well in arena. So now, when he gets better and tries to take better rewards, this grudge that his whole shard has will keep him out. He can’t grow and compete like he should be able to because this shard will harass him. And the comments he is receiving with the attacks are rude and unnecessary. Maybe read my post before telling me to get some perspective.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    vegainz wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »

    Eliminate shard chats, eliminate toxic people taking toxic approaches to the game. Although it’s probably too late, once word got out about deletion of chats, I’m sure phone numbers would be passed around. But it’s true that shard chats enable bad people to do mean things. Getting rid of shard chats would be an easier fix than getting rid of bad people.

    So your approach is basically: hey, some people drink and drive - let’s ban all cars, some jerks bully folks on the internet- let’s ban all computers&networks, etc..
    You do understand that you sound ridiculous and illogical?

    The vast majority of the chats work well and benefit everyone.


    They benefit a select group of people that most likely will not include everyone. That’s how all shard chats function. Like how your car brings you and three other people to a place quickly and destroys everyone else on the way there. You know, the logical way the world should work.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    same thing
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • VonZant
    3843 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    Or, said another way: Prevent non-chat payers from obtaining income.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    Or, said another way: Prevent non-chat payers from obtaining income.

    Not necessarily.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • CHFC22
    732 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.

  • VonZant
    3843 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    Or, said another way: Prevent non-chat payers from obtaining income.

    Not necessarily.

    If used in the manner OP cites, yes. Do you lock battles at payout times or target non-chat players who attempt to climb into your range (or not target chat players)? Then yes, necessarily.
  • Skiddlydiddly
    129 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Is this you zaless? It is a poor roster if you're on a mature shard, so can see their point there.

    Edited post to remove screenshot of another user's roster. Do not stat shame please ~Rtas
    Post edited by EA_Rtas on
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.
  • VonZant
    3843 posts Member
    edited March 2019


    What does the quality of his roster matter? If he Can take 1st he can take 1st. You use 5 characters in arena. Not 170.
    Post edited by EA_Rtas on
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    edited March 2019


    Zaless said that he took a break, so that’s why. But that makes sense, gather all the big guys together and blast the little guy into oblivion. Then say, Gg enjoy the beating, he’ll love that. What a courteous and fun shard.
    Post edited by EA_Rtas on
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    Or, said another way: Prevent non-chat payers from obtaining income.

    Not necessarily.

    If used in the manner OP cites, yes. Do you lock battles at payout times or target non-chat players who attempt to climb into your range (or not target chat players)? Then yes, necessarily.

    lmao, what?
    What do you think "not necessarily" means?
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • VonZant
    3843 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.

    No. The top teams in a sport fixing scores is not competition. It illegal in literally every competitive sport. You must rise and fall on your own merits without reliance on outside resources (or other players).

    If in a 1 v 1 game mode you cannot hold your position without relying on others, its not a 1 v1 game mode.


  • CHFC22
    732 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.

    If all 5k people are in the chat, it will be impossible to coordinate - there's not enough time spots, so there'd be zero point in a chat.

    It's got everything to do with restricting membership - if a chat doesn't do that then you get to the point above where's there's too many in it to coordinate. And so you by necessity have to have a closed shop, which whether you're a "good" or bad chat is true. I'm yet to have anyone tell me they're open to all and sundry - in fact, noone has ever actually answered the question! The silence is deafening.
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