SWGOH Shard Bullying!

Replies

  • VonZant wrote: »
    bh0mp9hrkmy3.png
    Is this you zaless? It is a poor roster if you're on a mature shard, so can see their point there.

    What does the quality of his roster matter? If he Can take 1st he can take 1st. You use 5 characters in arena. Not 170.

    Because as has been said many times in this thread, with a weak roster, the chances are when this JKR meta ends (soon), he/she will fade away again. If zaless was allowed into the chat, then once the new meta comes along, he/she likely won't have an answer to it. If the chat let everyone in like this it would be bloated and people wouldn't be earning their place.
    A quick search of me will show that I won't get Darth Revan, but I've got a decent roster to fall back on, so should be ok.

  • Nihion wrote: »
    bh0mp9hrkmy3.png
    Is this you zaless? It is a poor roster if you're on a mature shard, so can see their point there.

    Zaless said that he took a break, so that’s why. But that makes sense, gather all the big guys together and blast the little guy into oblivion. Then say, Gg enjoy the beating, he’ll love that. What a courteous and fun shard.

    The whole point of the chat is to maximise crystals for those in it. You prioritise attacking non members, or members whose payout has passed.
    It's a PvP part of the game, so people should expect PvP. Perhaps zaless could take the time to coordinate with others to make his/her own chat. There's strength in numbers.
  • Nihion
    1134 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.

    No. The top teams in a sport fixing scores is not competition. It illegal in literally every competitive sport. You must rise and fall on your own merits without reliance on outside resources (or other players).

    If in a 1 v 1 game mode you cannot hold your position without relying on others, its not a 1 v1 game mode.


    I’m confused, what are you responding to? As far as I’m concerned, I agree with you.
  • leef
    11738 posts Member
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.

    If all 5k people are in the chat, it will be impossible to coordinate - there's not enough time spots, so there'd be zero point in a chat.

    It's got everything to do with restricting membership - if a chat doesn't do that then you get to the point above where's there's too many in it to coordinate. And so you by necessity have to have a closed shop, which whether you're a "good" or bad chat is true. I'm yet to have anyone tell me they're open to all and sundry - in fact, noone has ever actually answered the question! The silence is deafening.

    5k?
    get realistic for a second instead of just spouting nonsense arguments. There's only a small amount of players that can reach top ranks reguraly when they're not helped or hindered by a shardchat. All those other players are irrelevant to the topic that's being discussed.
    If all those players are allowed to participate on the shardchat, you'd still need the shard chat to coordinate. So you're original statement just didn't make sense. You're just hating on shardchats blindly.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • CHFC22
    594 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.

    If all 5k people are in the chat, it will be impossible to coordinate - there's not enough time spots, so there'd be zero point in a chat.

    It's got everything to do with restricting membership - if a chat doesn't do that then you get to the point above where's there's too many in it to coordinate. And so you by necessity have to have a closed shop, which whether you're a "good" or bad chat is true. I'm yet to have anyone tell me they're open to all and sundry - in fact, noone has ever actually answered the question! The silence is deafening.

    5k?
    get realistic for a second instead of just spouting nonsense arguments. There's only a small amount of players that can reach top ranks reguraly when they're not helped or hindered by a shardchat. All those other players are irrelevant to the topic that's being discussed.
    If all those players are allowed to participate on the shardchat, you'd still need the shard chat to coordinate. So you're original statement just didn't make sense. You're just hating on shardchats blindly.

    So by "everyone" it meant "not everyone"?

    I'm hating on a lack of self awareness.
  • Nikoms565
    10304 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.

    No. The top teams in a sport fixing scores is not competition. It illegal in literally every competitive sport. You must rise and fall on your own merits without reliance on outside resources (or other players).

    If in a 1 v 1 game mode you cannot hold your position without relying on others, its not a 1 v1 game mode.


    Your first part is a horrible analogy - because in sport, teams actually play. You don't "play" on defense in arena - a **** AI does so for you. Also in sport, games/matches are at specific times - not whenever someone decides to attack you. Also in sport, you know who you are "competing" with. In arena, if someone is not in my payout time, I am not actually "competing" with them (except to climb over them to move up).

    Part of the purpose of shard chats is to alleviate unnecessary or accidental sniping, refreshes or wasting crystals. The other part is try to maximize crystal income for as many players as possible. I realize that not all shard chats (unfortunately) see that as their primary function - I AM NOT DEFENDING THEM. I am talking about the rest (majority) of civil, fun and well-intentioned shard chats.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: DeathStarVentDesigners - DVD for short.
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • VonZant
    2746 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    bh0mp9hrkmy3.png
    Is this you zaless? It is a poor roster if you're on a mature shard, so can see their point there.

    Zaless said that he took a break, so that’s why. But that makes sense, gather all the big guys together and blast the little guy into oblivion. Then say, Gg enjoy the beating, he’ll love that. What a courteous and fun shard.

    The whole point of the chat is to maximise crystals for those in it. You prioritise attacking non members, or members whose payout has passed.
    It's a PvP part of the game, so people should expect PvP. Perhaps zaless could take the time to coordinate with others to make his/her own chat. There's strength in numbers.

    PvP stands for Player vs Player.

    They way you are doing it it stands for Player vs PlayerS.

    See the difference?
  • Nihion
    1134 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    bh0mp9hrkmy3.png
    Is this you zaless? It is a poor roster if you're on a mature shard, so can see their point there.

    What does the quality of his roster matter? If he Can take 1st he can take 1st. You use 5 characters in arena. Not 170.

    Because as has been said many times in this thread, with a weak roster, the chances are when this JKR meta ends (soon), he/she will fade away again. If zaless was allowed into the chat, then once the new meta comes along, he/she likely won't have an answer to it. If the chat let everyone in like this it would be bloated and people wouldn't be earning their place.
    A quick search of me will show that I won't get Darth Revan, but I've got a decent roster to fall back on, so should be ok.

    I’m sorry I forgot that it’s about earning your place. Like taking your best team and earning #1.

    You pointed out some big flaws with shard chats. There are non members near the top who could compete (you know, the point of the game mode), but they get pushed out and can’t join the shard chat because then it would be bloated and complicated. And who decides who’s “earning their place”?

    If competition was unaffected by shard chats, Zaless would probably fade after the Revan meta. That’s how the game works. But at least he would have been able to receive that extra reward boost because of the solid team he constructed. Then he could focus on building his next team or the rest of his roster and play the game as it was made to be played.
  • Nikoms565
    10304 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    bh0mp9hrkmy3.png
    Is this you zaless? It is a poor roster if you're on a mature shard, so can see their point there.

    Zaless said that he took a break, so that’s why. But that makes sense, gather all the big guys together and blast the little guy into oblivion. Then say, Gg enjoy the beating, he’ll love that. What a courteous and fun shard.

    The whole point of the chat is to maximise crystals for those in it. You prioritise attacking non members, or members whose payout has passed.
    It's a PvP part of the game, so people should expect PvP. Perhaps zaless could take the time to coordinate with others to make his/her own chat. There's strength in numbers.

    PvP stands for Player vs Player.

    They way you are doing it it stands for Player vs PlayerS.

    See the difference?

    Except it's PvAI....but you keep being you! You go!
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: DeathStarVentDesigners - DVD for short.
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    bh0mp9hrkmy3.png
    Is this you zaless? It is a poor roster if you're on a mature shard, so can see their point there.

    Zaless said that he took a break, so that’s why. But that makes sense, gather all the big guys together and blast the little guy into oblivion. Then say, Gg enjoy the beating, he’ll love that. What a courteous and fun shard.

    The whole point of the chat is to maximise crystals for those in it. You prioritise attacking non members, or members whose payout has passed.
    It's a PvP part of the game, so people should expect PvP. Perhaps zaless could take the time to coordinate with others to make his/her own chat. There's strength in numbers.

    PvP stands for Player vs Player.

    They way you are doing it it stands for Player vs PlayerS.

    See the difference?


    Do you? Those in a chat still get attacked by those in it and those not in it.
    The difference is, they decided to do something about it.
    The OP can do the same thing if they wish.
  • VonZant
    2746 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    bh0mp9hrkmy3.png
    Is this you zaless? It is a poor roster if you're on a mature shard, so can see their point there.

    Zaless said that he took a break, so that’s why. But that makes sense, gather all the big guys together and blast the little guy into oblivion. Then say, Gg enjoy the beating, he’ll love that. What a courteous and fun shard.

    The whole point of the chat is to maximise crystals for those in it. You prioritise attacking non members, or members whose payout has passed.
    It's a PvP part of the game, so people should expect PvP. Perhaps zaless could take the time to coordinate with others to make his/her own chat. There's strength in numbers.

    PvP stands for Player vs Player.

    They way you are doing it it stands for Player vs PlayerS.

    See the difference?


    Do you? Those in a chat still get attacked by those in it and those not in it.
    The difference is, they decided to do something about it.
    The OP can do the same thing if they wish.

    As @CHFC22 said earlier in the thread, the lack of self-awareness is concerning to me.

    oqyw0mgb23lf.gif
  • Nihion wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    bh0mp9hrkmy3.png
    Is this you zaless? It is a poor roster if you're on a mature shard, so can see their point there.

    What does the quality of his roster matter? If he Can take 1st he can take 1st. You use 5 characters in arena. Not 170.

    Because as has been said many times in this thread, with a weak roster, the chances are when this JKR meta ends (soon), he/she will fade away again. If zaless was allowed into the chat, then once the new meta comes along, he/she likely won't have an answer to it. If the chat let everyone in like this it would be bloated and people wouldn't be earning their place.
    A quick search of me will show that I won't get Darth Revan, but I've got a decent roster to fall back on, so should be ok.

    I’m sorry I forgot that it’s about earning your place. Like taking your best team and earning #1.

    You pointed out some big flaws with shard chats. There are non members near the top who could compete (you know, the point of the game mode), but they get pushed out and can’t join the shard chat because then it would be bloated and complicated. And who decides who’s “earning their place”?

    If competition was unaffected by shard chats, Zaless would probably fade after the Revan meta. That’s how the game works. But at least he would have been able to receive that extra reward boost because of the solid team he constructed. Then he could focus on building his next team or the rest of his roster and play the game as it was made to be played.

    Shard chats aren't flawed for those in them. They are set up for the benefit of the members, not the rest of the shard.
    Anyone can make one. Not everyone can be bothered.

    Another factor to consider is in a PvP mode, depriving your competition of resources, makes it more likely your own position will be maintained. Similar to cutting off your enemies supply lines; an ancient tactic.
  • VonZant
    2746 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.

    No. The top teams in a sport fixing scores is not competition. It illegal in literally every competitive sport. You must rise and fall on your own merits without reliance on outside resources (or other players).

    If in a 1 v 1 game mode you cannot hold your position without relying on others, its not a 1 v1 game mode.


    Your first part is a horrible analogy - because in sport, teams actually play. You don't "play" on defense in arena - a **** AI does so for you. Also in sport, games/matches are at specific times - not whenever someone decides to attack you. Also in sport, you know who you are "competing" with. In arena, if someone is not in my payout time, I am not actually "competing" with them (except to climb over them to move up).

    Part of the purpose of shard chats is to alleviate unnecessary or accidental sniping, refreshes or wasting crystals. The other part is try to maximize crystal income for as many players as possible. I realize that not all shard chats (unfortunately) see that as their primary function - I AM NOT DEFENDING THEM. I am talking about the rest (majority) of civil, fun and well-intentioned shard chats.

    I dont disagree with your AI comment but that's a different discussion. Then rest of your comment misses the point.

    Look I dont fault people too badly for doing it out of motivated self-interest. The game allows it.

    But The rules should be set up so such a construct is not useful because its no longer a 1 v 1 game when shard chats become involved. A points system similar to GA would solve it.

    The fact that some players involved in them can't see that fact is disappointing.
  • CHFC22
    594 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    bh0mp9hrkmy3.png
    Is this you zaless? It is a poor roster if you're on a mature shard, so can see their point there.

    Zaless said that he took a break, so that’s why. But that makes sense, gather all the big guys together and blast the little guy into oblivion. Then say, Gg enjoy the beating, he’ll love that. What a courteous and fun shard.

    The whole point of the chat is to maximise crystals for those in it. You prioritise attacking non members, or members whose payout has passed.
    It's a PvP part of the game, so people should expect PvP. Perhaps zaless could take the time to coordinate with others to make his/her own chat. There's strength in numbers.

    PvP stands for Player vs Player.

    They way you are doing it it stands for Player vs PlayerS.

    See the difference?


    Do you? Those in a chat still get attacked by those in it and those not in it.
    The difference is, they decided to do something about it.
    The OP can do the same thing if they wish.

    As @CHFC22 said earlier in the thread, the lack of self-awareness is concerning to me.

    oqyw0mgb23lf.gif

    We're coming at this wrong! We should encourage them to set up more shard chats, and additionally when there's disagreement within an existing one. The numbers will gradually whittle down as more and more form until eventually each chat has 1 member, looking out for just their own payout, and we'd have an arena rather than the current group hug.
  • VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.

    No. The top teams in a sport fixing scores is not competition. It illegal in literally every competitive sport. You must rise and fall on your own merits without reliance on outside resources (or other players).

    If in a 1 v 1 game mode you cannot hold your position without relying on others, its not a 1 v1 game mode.


    Where your making a mistake is that this is not a 1 on 1 game mode. This is a you vs everyone on the shard game mode. If you want a comparison game think of something like Risk, or Monopoly, most RTS games, etc.

    In all of those games, the ultimate goal is for one player to win, but along the way they form alliances to knock out competition.

  • VonZant
    2746 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.

    No. The top teams in a sport fixing scores is not competition. It illegal in literally every competitive sport. You must rise and fall on your own merits without reliance on outside resources (or other players).

    If in a 1 v 1 game mode you cannot hold your position without relying on others, its not a 1 v1 game mode.


    Where your making a mistake is that this is not a 1 on 1 game mode. This is a you vs everyone on the shard game mode. If you want a comparison game think of something like Risk, or Monopoly, most RTS games, etc.

    In all of those games, the ultimate goal is for one player to win, but along the way they form alliances to knock out competition.

    I hear your point. I understand it.

    But it's wrong.
  • CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.

    If all 5k people are in the chat, it will be impossible to coordinate - there's not enough time spots, so there'd be zero point in a chat.

    It's got everything to do with restricting membership - if a chat doesn't do that then you get to the point above where's there's too many in it to coordinate. And so you by necessity have to have a closed shop, which whether you're a "good" or bad chat is true. I'm yet to have anyone tell me they're open to all and sundry - in fact, noone has ever actually answered the question! The silence is deafening.

    I'll answer. Absolutely the chat is not intended to be open all and sundry. People are being hypocritical if they say otherwise. The chat is to benefit the players who were most engaged with the game for the longest period of time. It's purpose is to maximize their crystal payouts. While most chats start by being inclusive of as many of the top dwellers as possible, at a certain point (around 20-30 people) it is no longer in the best interests of the chat members to add additional people unless they replace someone who has quit.

    There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that because that is what this game mode is all about.

    Now, all that said, you can certainly operate your chat that way without being rude to people who are not in the chat and mocking them or otherwise. If you don't intend to let new people in, just don't respond to communication attempts.
  • VonZant wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.

    No. The top teams in a sport fixing scores is not competition. It illegal in literally every competitive sport. You must rise and fall on your own merits without reliance on outside resources (or other players).

    If in a 1 v 1 game mode you cannot hold your position without relying on others, its not a 1 v1 game mode.


    Where your making a mistake is that this is not a 1 on 1 game mode. This is a you vs everyone on the shard game mode. If you want a comparison game think of something like Risk, or Monopoly, most RTS games, etc.

    In all of those games, the ultimate goal is for one player to win, but along the way they form alliances to knock out competition.

    I hear your point. I understand it.

    But it's wrong.

    It's right until proven wrong (if ever) by some sort of change to the game mode that would keep the game from functioning in this manner. ;)
  • Tanzos
    181 posts Member
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.

    If all 5k people are in the chat, it will be impossible to coordinate - there's not enough time spots, so there'd be zero point in a chat.

    It's got everything to do with restricting membership - if a chat doesn't do that then you get to the point above where's there's too many in it to coordinate. And so you by necessity have to have a closed shop, which whether you're a "good" or bad chat is true. I'm yet to have anyone tell me they're open to all and sundry - in fact, noone has ever actually answered the question! The silence is deafening.

    I'll answer. Absolutely the chat is not intended to be open all and sundry. People are being hypocritical if they say otherwise. The chat is to benefit the players who were most engaged with the game for the longest period of time. It's purpose is to maximize their crystal payouts. While most chats start by being inclusive of as many of the top dwellers as possible, at a certain point (around 20-30 people) it is no longer in the best interests of the chat members to add additional people unless they replace someone who has quit.

    There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that because that is what this game mode is all about.


    Now, all that said, you can certainly operate your chat that way without being rude to people who are not in the chat and mocking them or otherwise. If you don't intend to let new people in, just don't respond to communication attempts.

    This game mode is all about? About what? Colluding with your opponents? Where was that in the tutorial? If the game mode is about colluding with opponents to intentionally target a specific person without benefit, then why isn't there a shard chat option in game?

    Oh wait I know why, to prevent bullying.
  • VonZant
    2746 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.

    No. The top teams in a sport fixing scores is not competition. It illegal in literally every competitive sport. You must rise and fall on your own merits without reliance on outside resources (or other players).

    If in a 1 v 1 game mode you cannot hold your position without relying on others, its not a 1 v1 game mode.


    Where your making a mistake is that this is not a 1 on 1 game mode. This is a you vs everyone on the shard game mode. If you want a comparison game think of something like Risk, or Monopoly, most RTS games, etc.

    In all of those games, the ultimate goal is for one player to win, but along the way they form alliances to knock out competition.

    I hear your point. I understand it.

    But it's wrong.

    It's right until proven wrong (if ever) by some sort of change to the game mode that would keep the game from functioning in this manner. ;)

    Well this part I agree with.
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.

    If all 5k people are in the chat, it will be impossible to coordinate - there's not enough time spots, so there'd be zero point in a chat.

    It's got everything to do with restricting membership - if a chat doesn't do that then you get to the point above where's there's too many in it to coordinate. And so you by necessity have to have a closed shop, which whether you're a "good" or bad chat is true. I'm yet to have anyone tell me they're open to all and sundry - in fact, noone has ever actually answered the question! The silence is deafening.

    I'll answer. Absolutely the chat is not intended to be open all and sundry. People are being hypocritical if they say otherwise. The chat is to benefit the players who were most engaged with the game for the longest period of time. It's purpose is to maximize their crystal payouts. While most chats start by being inclusive of as many of the top dwellers as possible, at a certain point (around 20-30 people) it is no longer in the best interests of the chat members to add additional people unless they replace someone who has quit.

    There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that because that is what this game mode is all about.


    Now, all that said, you can certainly operate your chat that way without being rude to people who are not in the chat and mocking them or otherwise. If you don't intend to let new people in, just don't respond to communication attempts.

    This game mode is all about? About what? Colluding with your opponents? Where was that in the tutorial? If the game mode is about colluding with opponents to intentionally target a specific person without benefit, then why isn't there a shard chat option in game?

    Oh wait I know why, to prevent bullying.

    Ya'll really need to come up with some new, more accurate terminology than "collude" and "bully", because both terms are loaded and neither are in any way an accurate description of the function of a shard chat.


  • VonZant
    2746 posts Member
    Tanzos wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.

    If all 5k people are in the chat, it will be impossible to coordinate - there's not enough time spots, so there'd be zero point in a chat.

    It's got everything to do with restricting membership - if a chat doesn't do that then you get to the point above where's there's too many in it to coordinate. And so you by necessity have to have a closed shop, which whether you're a "good" or bad chat is true. I'm yet to have anyone tell me they're open to all and sundry - in fact, noone has ever actually answered the question! The silence is deafening.

    I'll answer. Absolutely the chat is not intended to be open all and sundry. People are being hypocritical if they say otherwise. The chat is to benefit the players who were most engaged with the game for the longest period of time. It's purpose is to maximize their crystal payouts. While most chats start by being inclusive of as many of the top dwellers as possible, at a certain point (around 20-30 people) it is no longer in the best interests of the chat members to add additional people unless they replace someone who has quit.

    There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that because that is what this game mode is all about.


    Now, all that said, you can certainly operate your chat that way without being rude to people who are not in the chat and mocking them or otherwise. If you don't intend to let new people in, just don't respond to communication attempts.

    This game mode is all about? About what? Colluding with your opponents? Where was that in the tutorial? If the game mode is about colluding with opponents to intentionally target a specific person without benefit, then why isn't there a shard chat option in game?

    Oh wait I know why, to prevent bullying.

    Ya'll really need to come up with some new, more accurate terminology than "collude" and "bully", because both terms are loaded and neither are in any way an accurate description of the function of a shard chat.


    Agree collude is now a charged word that has lost rational usefulness.

    Conspire? Scheme? Plot? Skulldugger? (If you are not in a chat).

    Plan? Strategize? Work together? (If you are in a chat).
  • CHFC22
    594 posts Member
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.

    If all 5k people are in the chat, it will be impossible to coordinate - there's not enough time spots, so there'd be zero point in a chat.

    It's got everything to do with restricting membership - if a chat doesn't do that then you get to the point above where's there's too many in it to coordinate. And so you by necessity have to have a closed shop, which whether you're a "good" or bad chat is true. I'm yet to have anyone tell me they're open to all and sundry - in fact, noone has ever actually answered the question! The silence is deafening.

    I'll answer. Absolutely the chat is not intended to be open all and sundry. People are being hypocritical if they say otherwise. The chat is to benefit the players who were most engaged with the game for the longest period of time. It's purpose is to maximize their crystal payouts. While most chats start by being inclusive of as many of the top dwellers as possible, at a certain point (around 20-30 people) it is no longer in the best interests of the chat members to add additional people unless they replace someone who has quit.

    There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that because that is what this game mode is all about.

    Now, all that said, you can certainly operate your chat that way without being rude to people who are not in the chat and mocking them or otherwise. If you don't intend to let new people in, just don't respond to communication attempts.

    Kudos for responding.

    So your chat (assuming you're in one!) - how do new members join?
  • leef
    11738 posts Member
    Tanzos wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.

    If all 5k people are in the chat, it will be impossible to coordinate - there's not enough time spots, so there'd be zero point in a chat.

    It's got everything to do with restricting membership - if a chat doesn't do that then you get to the point above where's there's too many in it to coordinate. And so you by necessity have to have a closed shop, which whether you're a "good" or bad chat is true. I'm yet to have anyone tell me they're open to all and sundry - in fact, noone has ever actually answered the question! The silence is deafening.

    I'll answer. Absolutely the chat is not intended to be open all and sundry. People are being hypocritical if they say otherwise. The chat is to benefit the players who were most engaged with the game for the longest period of time. It's purpose is to maximize their crystal payouts. While most chats start by being inclusive of as many of the top dwellers as possible, at a certain point (around 20-30 people) it is no longer in the best interests of the chat members to add additional people unless they replace someone who has quit.

    There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that because that is what this game mode is all about.


    Now, all that said, you can certainly operate your chat that way without being rude to people who are not in the chat and mocking them or otherwise. If you don't intend to let new people in, just don't respond to communication attempts.

    This game mode is all about? About what? Colluding with your opponents? Where was that in the tutorial? If the game mode is about colluding with opponents to intentionally target a specific person without benefit, then why isn't there a shard chat option in game?

    Oh wait I know why, to prevent bullying.

    There is an option ingame to chat with your shardmates. As a matter of fact it was added later on while the devs were definately aware of the excistance of shardchats aswell as the negative impact some of these shardchats have on some players.
    So that's your argument out of the window, next.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Nikoms565
    10304 posts Member
    edited March 15
    VonZant wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.

    No. The top teams in a sport fixing scores is not competition. It illegal in literally every competitive sport. You must rise and fall on your own merits without reliance on outside resources (or other players).

    If in a 1 v 1 game mode you cannot hold your position without relying on others, its not a 1 v1 game mode.


    Where your making a mistake is that this is not a 1 on 1 game mode. This is a you vs everyone on the shard game mode. If you want a comparison game think of something like Risk, or Monopoly, most RTS games, etc.

    In all of those games, the ultimate goal is for one player to win, but along the way they form alliances to knock out competition.

    I hear your point. I understand it.

    But it's wrong.

    I think your lack of self awareness could also use some work.

    "wrong" and "my opinion is different" are two very different things. Yet you use them interchangeably.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: DeathStarVentDesigners - DVD for short.
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • VonZant
    2746 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.

    No. The top teams in a sport fixing scores is not competition. It illegal in literally every competitive sport. You must rise and fall on your own merits without reliance on outside resources (or other players).

    If in a 1 v 1 game mode you cannot hold your position without relying on others, its not a 1 v1 game mode.


    Where your making a mistake is that this is not a 1 on 1 game mode. This is a you vs everyone on the shard game mode. If you want a comparison game think of something like Risk, or Monopoly, most RTS games, etc.

    In all of those games, the ultimate goal is for one player to win, but along the way they form alliances to knock out competition.

    I hear your point. I understand it.

    But it's wrong.

    I think your lack of self awareness could also use some work.

    "wrong" and "my opinion is different" are two very different things. Yet you use them interchangeably.

    Fair. But I was responding to "you vs everyone" and if you dont fight everyone equally (because they are in your alliance) its not you vs everyone. Its you and a few others vs everyone. Fair enough though. I shant speak in absolutes.

    So, he's almost certainly wrong on that point, in my opinion. ;)
  • InRevanWeTrust
    47 posts Member
    edited March 15
    atw4yy6zvzip.gif
    .
  • Tanzos
    181 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.

    If all 5k people are in the chat, it will be impossible to coordinate - there's not enough time spots, so there'd be zero point in a chat.

    It's got everything to do with restricting membership - if a chat doesn't do that then you get to the point above where's there's too many in it to coordinate. And so you by necessity have to have a closed shop, which whether you're a "good" or bad chat is true. I'm yet to have anyone tell me they're open to all and sundry - in fact, noone has ever actually answered the question! The silence is deafening.

    I'll answer. Absolutely the chat is not intended to be open all and sundry. People are being hypocritical if they say otherwise. The chat is to benefit the players who were most engaged with the game for the longest period of time. It's purpose is to maximize their crystal payouts. While most chats start by being inclusive of as many of the top dwellers as possible, at a certain point (around 20-30 people) it is no longer in the best interests of the chat members to add additional people unless they replace someone who has quit.

    There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that because that is what this game mode is all about.


    Now, all that said, you can certainly operate your chat that way without being rude to people who are not in the chat and mocking them or otherwise. If you don't intend to let new people in, just don't respond to communication attempts.

    This game mode is all about? About what? Colluding with your opponents? Where was that in the tutorial? If the game mode is about colluding with opponents to intentionally target a specific person without benefit, then why isn't there a shard chat option in game?

    Oh wait I know why, to prevent bullying.

    There is an option ingame to chat with your shardmates. As a matter of fact it was added later on while the devs were definately aware of the excistance of shardchats aswell as the negative impact some of these shardchats have on some players.
    So that's your argument out of the window, next.

    So you're saying the point of Arena is to "strategize" against another player with your opponents for no benefit of your own? That's my argument, which is still in the window thank you very much.

    Yeah that added in game chats. But until how many years later and after Share Chats were a thing. So the fact that it exists doesn't change the issue.

    It was probably added to help those aren't on Discord or other 3rd party apps to get in touch with others. But it wasn't even discussed until recently because they were afraid of the collusion... I mean strategizing. Unfortunately it already exists and guess what, CG can't do anything about but make it more accessible to those who aren't allowed I'm said chats.

    Window open.
  • Tanzos
    181 posts Member
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

  • starlordisanidiot
    7 posts Member
    edited March 15
    A few about the simple facts as Im in the chat that Z was complaining about and started this general conversation

    1. We did help him and co ordinate with him so he could reach p1 by telling him who not to hit which was a grand total of six names on his climb and left lanes for him to get to p1 without hitting those people as we are all very aware of each other.
    2. We did not want him in chat as we are close group who "chat" and share info from lots of sources. Help each other test teams etc so we dont invite everyone in especially when they are a one team wonder with a gp of 1.5m after 3.5 years so we dont expect him to bring much to the table long term.
    3. Z ignored the no hit list 4 times in ten days and complained he should be able to hit who he wanted to his rules. He cost several players crystals which he didnt have to so we stopped coordinating with him as he was not working with us. We tried and gave him a pass many times but he just didnt care.
    4. no one is forced to attack anyone and there is no chat king. we are a collective with rules to benefit everyone. We fall out sometimes but we make up and move along.

    We treat snipers who climb outside of their PO and cost others crystals for fun and rude asshats as a game feature we must play against for fun. We get very few in our shard or out of chat as everyone is pretty chill.

    Its as simple as that

    p.s. we have had several non chat guys co ordinate with the chat fantastically well. We had 3 guys in one PO we could not talk to for over a year and we made it work with them and we never spoke so we are far from devil picking on someone. Hes just being an entailed self rude fool.
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