SWGOH Shard Bullying!

Replies

  • Nikoms565
    10417 posts Member
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    You must have missed the part where the OP hit others at their payout (and not near his own).
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: DeathStarVentDesigners - DVD for short.
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • CHFC22
    627 posts Member
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    Agreed. I would also add that there's no right or wrong time to attack someone. That's something the chats have invented.
  • CHFC22 wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    It was said everyone can benefit.

    Shard chats exist to maximise payout for its members.

    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    Only way out of this is to restrict membership, which takes us back to the root problem of them being a closed shop.
    If everyone benefits it means everyone gets a maximised payout, which necessitates everyone being in the chat, or there being no chat.

    or there being no chat? How so?
    there's obviously a difference between everyone being on the chat and there being no chat. I feel like i'm pointing out the obvious here, but the chat is there to help coordinate pay-outs. Without the chat that's going to be a whole lot harder. This has nothing to do with restricting membership.

    If all 5k people are in the chat, it will be impossible to coordinate - there's not enough time spots, so there'd be zero point in a chat.

    It's got everything to do with restricting membership - if a chat doesn't do that then you get to the point above where's there's too many in it to coordinate. And so you by necessity have to have a closed shop, which whether you're a "good" or bad chat is true. I'm yet to have anyone tell me they're open to all and sundry - in fact, noone has ever actually answered the question! The silence is deafening.

    I'll answer. Absolutely the chat is not intended to be open all and sundry. People are being hypocritical if they say otherwise. The chat is to benefit the players who were most engaged with the game for the longest period of time. It's purpose is to maximize their crystal payouts. While most chats start by being inclusive of as many of the top dwellers as possible, at a certain point (around 20-30 people) it is no longer in the best interests of the chat members to add additional people unless they replace someone who has quit.

    There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that because that is what this game mode is all about.

    Now, all that said, you can certainly operate your chat that way without being rude to people who are not in the chat and mocking them or otherwise. If you don't intend to let new people in, just don't respond to communication attempts.

    Kudos for responding.

    So your chat (assuming you're in one!) - how do new members join?

    My two chats are different.

    I'll deal with fleet first. It's currently a small chat with about 12 people. The shard must evidently be pretty weak (even though it was fleet launch shard), because the last two metas (mace/falcon), I don't think I have ever moved outside of the top 8 ever. So right now new members would be welcome especially if they are people we have seen near the top since fleet started. Initially I reached out on here and for the longest time, had a chat with one guy. Slowly we got more and more people. These day's if someone contacted us, and they were an empty payout, they would still be welcomed in immediately. If they were a on the same payout as someone currently in the shard, we would defer to that member on how to handle it. For example I have a solo payout. I'd be happy to rotate with one other person. I would not be up for a 3 person rotation given the amount of empty payouts we currently have. I would suggest a 3rd person with my payout could join and switch their payout, or join and take 3rd. If they are not ok with that, then we will defend.

    Arena is a different story. My shard is a first month shard. We have 29 people in the chat. I was the first Central time zone person in that chat and had solo 1 for roughly a year. Over the next year or so, we ballooned to having 9 people in CST and 6 in EST in the chat. In those 2 Timezone, we established veteran rotations for the top 5. The other time zones had far fewer people. Prior to the ability to change payouts, we had shut off new members for those two TZ, but were open to taking other people in other time zones, but the only additional people who attempted contact just happened to be CST/EST as well.

    When the time change came, we mapped our payouts, and now have 2 people in every payout from 11am -11 pm CST. Then we have a few guys in asia who have payouts while we sleep.

    As far as joining now, we aren't interested in new players unless someone quits. We certainly aren't interested in someone who we literally have never seen in the top 50 in the previous 3 years but just happened to make it there with revan. Why? Because in a week they will likely disappear again.

    All that said, there are a handful of guys who have persisted in their climbs from meta to meta, and if they reached out we would bring into the fold and work something out. That said, they haven't reached out, so its not in our best interests to reach out either.

  • CHFC22
    627 posts Member
    A few about the simple facts as Im in the chat that Z was complaining about and started this general conversation

    1. We did help him and co ordinate with him so he could reach p1 by telling him who not to hit which was a grand total of six names on his climb and left lanes for him to get to p1 without hitting those people as we are all very aware of each other.
    2. We did not want him in chat as we are close group who "chat" and share info from lots of sources. Help each other test teams etc so we dont invite everyone in especially when they are a one team wonder with a gp of 1.5m after 3.5 years so we dont expect him to bring much to the table long term.
    3. Z ignored the no hit list 4 times in ten days and complained he should be able to hit who he wanted to his rules. He cost several players crystals which he didnt have to so we stopped coordinating with him as he was not working with us. We tried and gave him a pass many times but he just didnt care.
    4. no one is forced to attack anyone and there is no chat king. we are a collective with rules to benefit everyone. We fall out sometimes but we make up and move along.

    We treat snipers who climb outside of their PO and cost others crystals for fun and rude asshats as a game feature we must play against for fun. We get very few in our shard or out of chat as everyone is pretty chill.

    Its as simple as that

    p.s. we have had several non chat guys co ordinate with the chat fantastically well. We had 3 guys in one PO we could not talk to for over a year and we made it work with them and we never spoke so we are far from devil picking on someone. Hes just being an entailed self rude fool.

    Your argument is well worded, and thanks for the explanation. However, the issue, for me at least, is that your definition of fun isn't compatible with someone who wants to play the arena as an arena, and not another form of co-op. I also don't think it's relevant that you see him as a 1 hit wonder - right now he's beating you guys in a fair fight. He's done the right thing by approaching you but you've rejected him, yet you still expect him to play by your rules but without any of the corresponding benefits.
  • leef
    11957 posts Member
    edited March 15
    Tanzos wrote: »

    So you're saying the point of Arena is to "strategize" against another player with your opponents for no benefit of your own? That's my argument, which is still in the window thank you very much.

    Yeah that added in game chats. But until how many years later and after Share Chats were a thing. So the fact that it exists doesn't change the issue.

    It was probably added to help those aren't on Discord or other 3rd party apps to get in touch with others. But it wasn't even discussed until recently because they were afraid of the collusion... I mean strategizing. Unfortunately it already exists and guess what, CG can't do anything about but make it more accessible to those who aren't allowed I'm said chats.

    Window open.

    So at first there was no option ingame, but now they only added the option ingame to make it more accesible for those who aren't allowed in the discord chats? isn't that an argument in favour of shardchats since apparantly even the devs want you to have access to your "shard frenemies" in order to "strategize"?

    Also, that clearly wasn't what i was saying at all and you know it.

    Save water, drink champagne!
  • 7AnimalMother
    1325 posts Member
    edited March 15
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    ... and if anyone can join you don't need a shard chat.

    eh?

    Hes exactly right.

    how so?

    You can’t fit everyone into a shard chat that guarantees them beneficial rewards. And if you could, then what’s the point of the chat?

    The point of the chat stays the same regardless of how many players are on it; coordinate pay-outs. Maximize Crystal Income.

    Fixed it.

    But only for a certain number of players, because it cannot include the entire collection of skilled players. And if it included everyone, then that removes the entire competitive aspect of arena. Which, in my experience, is the point.

    No. The top teams in a sport fixing scores is not competition. It illegal in literally every competitive sport. You must rise and fall on your own merits without reliance on outside resources (or other players).

    If in a 1 v 1 game mode you cannot hold your position without relying on others, its not a 1 v1 game mode.


    Where your making a mistake is that this is not a 1 on 1 game mode. This is a you vs everyone on the shard game mode. If you want a comparison game think of something like Risk, or Monopoly, most RTS games, etc.

    In all of those games, the ultimate goal is for one player to win, but along the way they form alliances to knock out competition.

    I hear your point. I understand it.

    But it's wrong.

    I think your lack of self awareness could also use some work.

    "wrong" and "my opinion is different" are two very different things. Yet you use them interchangeably.

    Fair. But I was responding to "you vs everyone" and if you dont fight everyone equally (because they are in your alliance) its not you vs everyone. Its you and a few others vs everyone. Fair enough though. I shant speak in absolutes.

    So, he's almost certainly wrong on that point, in my opinion. ;)

    But I do have to fight my alliance members when it's my turn for payout. I still have to beat them to take my spot.

    And we also jockey for the coveted 3-4 position after everyone's payout has passed!
  • If the person makes his way to 1 without being in shard chat - it’s already a big move (because even in normal shards without mafia, he is targeted more often, as others don’t know his payout time).

    I can’t say who is right or wrong in that particular situation, as I don’t have the full picture, but what can I say to people speaking of “not good enough roster” and all that stuff: yeah, guys, you can do that, as that’s just a mobile game, and you can fight 20vs1 via it’s mechanic.
    But as you have a right to do what you want, other people have a right to form an opinion about your behavior.
    My oppinion: that’s a behavior of a person who suddenly got some power, and using it for his immature and insecure ego.
  • leef
    11957 posts Member
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    Agreed. I would also add that there's no right or wrong time to attack someone. That's something the chats have invented.

    That's simply not true, plain false actually. I feel like you've never actually competed for top ranks and are just blaming everything on shardchats.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Tanzos
    184 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »

    So you're saying the point of Arena is to "strategize" against another player with your opponents for no benefit of your own? That's my argument, which is still in the window thank you very much.

    Yeah that added in game chats. But until how many years later and after Share Chats were a thing. So the fact that it exists doesn't change the issue.

    It was probably added to help those aren't on Discord or other 3rd party apps to get in touch with others. But it wasn't even discussed until recently because they were afraid of the collusion... I mean strategizing. Unfortunately it already exists and guess what, CG can't do anything about but make it more accessible to those who aren't allowed I'm said chats.

    Window open.

    So at first there was no option ingame, but now they only added the option ingame to make it more accesible for those who aren't allowed in the discord chats? isn't that an argument in favour of shardchats since apparantly even the devs want you to have access to your "shard frenemies" in order to "strategize"?

    Also, that clearly wasn't what i was saying at all and you know it.

    If a the opponent has access to an advantage that CG cannot take away, then give everyone else that advantage. Doesn't make it right but it's the only thing CG could do without overhauling Arena.

    I don't want to argue with you, I have nothing against you.

    I find this whole thread and existence of the problem a dirty stain on this game.

    There is no resolve in this.
  • CHFC22
    627 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    Agreed. I would also add that there's no right or wrong time to attack someone. That's something the chats have invented.

    That's simply not true, plain false actually. I feel like you've never actually competed for top ranks and are just blaming everything on shardchats.

    Demonstrate, empirically, a correct & incorrect time to attack someone. Your answer will be based on an opinion on how the game should be played.

    I have no idea whether or not a shard chat even exists on my shard. I rank 20-50, so probably not in their firing line.

    As stated previously, I just have an issue with a lack of self awareness.

    Anyway, off you pop - there's others here who are conversing like an adult that I'm more interested in hearing from.
  • leef
    11957 posts Member
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    Agreed. I would also add that there's no right or wrong time to attack someone. That's something the chats have invented.

    That's simply not true, plain false actually. I feel like you've never actually competed for top ranks and are just blaming everything on shardchats.

    Demonstrate, empirically, a correct & incorrect time to attack someone. Your answer will be based on an opinion on how the game should be played.

    I have no idea whether or not a shard chat even exists on my shard. I rank 20-50, so probably not in their firing line.

    As stated previously, I just have an issue with a lack of self awareness.

    Anyway, off you pop - there's others here who are conversing like an adult that I'm more interested in hearing from.

    You know full well i can't empirically demonstrate that it has been common knowledge since before shardchats that the ideal time to attack is as close as possible to your own pay-out. If you don't do that you'll be hit more often regardless of whether or not there's a shardchat.
    You keep throwing false statements into the conversation without actually knowing what you're talking about, yet you're the one who has an issue with the lack of self awareness of others. If anyone should just pop off it's you.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • CHFC22
    627 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    Agreed. I would also add that there's no right or wrong time to attack someone. That's something the chats have invented.

    That's simply not true, plain false actually. I feel like you've never actually competed for top ranks and are just blaming everything on shardchats.

    Demonstrate, empirically, a correct & incorrect time to attack someone. Your answer will be based on an opinion on how the game should be played.

    I have no idea whether or not a shard chat even exists on my shard. I rank 20-50, so probably not in their firing line.

    As stated previously, I just have an issue with a lack of self awareness.

    Anyway, off you pop - there's others here who are conversing like an adult that I'm more interested in hearing from.

    You know full well i can't empirically demonstrate that it has been common knowledge since before shardchats that the ideal time to attack is as close as possible to your own pay-out. If you don't do that you'll be hit more often regardless of whether or not there's a shardchat.
    You keep throwing false statements into the conversation without actually knowing what you're talking about, yet you're the one who has an issue with the lack of self awareness of others. If anyone should just pop off it's you.

    Common knowledge doth not evidence make.

    Bit like saying religion is proof of god.

    Good use of the "no, you are" insult at the end there.
  • leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    Agreed. I would also add that there's no right or wrong time to attack someone. That's something the chats have invented.

    That's simply not true, plain false actually. I feel like you've never actually competed for top ranks and are just blaming everything on shardchats.

    Demonstrate, empirically, a correct & incorrect time to attack someone. Your answer will be based on an opinion on how the game should be played.

    I have no idea whether or not a shard chat even exists on my shard. I rank 20-50, so probably not in their firing line.

    As stated previously, I just have an issue with a lack of self awareness.

    Anyway, off you pop - there's others here who are conversing like an adult that I'm more interested in hearing from.

    You know full well i can't empirically demonstrate that it has been common knowledge since before shardchats that the ideal time to attack is as close as possible to your own pay-out. If you don't do that you'll be hit more often regardless of whether or not there's a shardchat.
    You keep throwing false statements into the conversation without actually knowing what you're talking about, yet you're the one who has an issue with the lack of self awareness of others. If anyone should just pop off it's you.

    Honestly we have a pretty simple decision tree for climbing in our shard.

    It goes like this:

    Without changing the number of battles I need to use to reach my payout spot.....
    1. Is there a non-friendly I can hit? (If yes, hit them, if not go to 2).
    2. Is there someone who's payout has passed? (if yes, hit them, if not go to 3)
    3. Do all the people in front of me have payouts before me? (if yes, don't move. If no, proceed to 4.)
    4. Who has the latest payout in the day among my options? (hit this person)

    I
  • VonZant
    2892 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    Agreed. I would also add that there's no right or wrong time to attack someone. That's something the chats have invented.

    That's simply not true, plain false actually. I feel like you've never actually competed for top ranks and are just blaming everything on shardchats.

    Demonstrate, empirically, a correct & incorrect time to attack someone. Your answer will be based on an opinion on how the game should be played.

    I have no idea whether or not a shard chat even exists on my shard. I rank 20-50, so probably not in their firing line.

    As stated previously, I just have an issue with a lack of self awareness.

    Anyway, off you pop - there's others here who are conversing like an adult that I'm more interested in hearing from.

    You know full well i can't empirically demonstrate that it has been common knowledge since before shardchats that the ideal time to attack is as close as possible to your own pay-out. If you don't do that you'll be hit more often regardless of whether or not there's a shardchat.
    You keep throwing false statements into the conversation without actually knowing what you're talking about, yet you're the one who has an issue with the lack of self awareness of others. If anyone should just pop off it's you.

    But the common knowledge you speak of is the fiat of the shard chats. So is "we allow you to attack person ABC at only X time."

    Sometimes I'm going to be on a plane all day, or promised to play baseball or legos or pokemon or chess with the kids or (like now) have the flu and have no guarantee to even be awake at any particular time. Like the other poster I float 50-125 because I choose to run Qira and dont have an issue with them so they dont hurt me personally. But people saying being part of a shard chat doesn't penalize people outside of it arent being open minded.

    The game rules should be coded to take personal shard chat decision making out of it. Its not uniform or equal and can't be regulated.

    IMHO.
  • leef
    11957 posts Member
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    Agreed. I would also add that there's no right or wrong time to attack someone. That's something the chats have invented.

    That's simply not true, plain false actually. I feel like you've never actually competed for top ranks and are just blaming everything on shardchats.

    Demonstrate, empirically, a correct & incorrect time to attack someone. Your answer will be based on an opinion on how the game should be played.

    I have no idea whether or not a shard chat even exists on my shard. I rank 20-50, so probably not in their firing line.

    As stated previously, I just have an issue with a lack of self awareness.

    Anyway, off you pop - there's others here who are conversing like an adult that I'm more interested in hearing from.

    You know full well i can't empirically demonstrate that it has been common knowledge since before shardchats that the ideal time to attack is as close as possible to your own pay-out. If you don't do that you'll be hit more often regardless of whether or not there's a shardchat.
    You keep throwing false statements into the conversation without actually knowing what you're talking about, yet you're the one who has an issue with the lack of self awareness of others. If anyone should just pop off it's you.

    Common knowledge doth not evidence make.

    Bit like saying religion is proof of god.

    Good use of the "no, you are" insult at the end there.
    I could ask you to provide evidence that shardchats invented the "right and wrong time to attack" since you're the one making the claim, so the burden of proof lies with you.
    I won't because i know you wouldn't be able to provide the proof even if you were right.

    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Who is saying shard chats doesn't penalise those not in it?

    Play the game how you want to and others will do the same. You will not change their opinion or how to play the game any more than they will change yours.
    If you want things to change, take action yourself. Complaining that others aren't playing fair will get you nowhere.
  • VonZant
    2892 posts Member
    Who is saying shard chats doesn't penalise those not in it?

    Play the game how you want to and others will do the same. You will not change their opinion or how to play the game any more than they will change yours.
    If you want things to change, take action yourself. Complaining that others aren't playing fair will get you nowhere.

    Wait, you mean posting in a video game forum thread won't accomplish anything?

    I have to rethink my life. ;)

  • CHFC22
    627 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    Agreed. I would also add that there's no right or wrong time to attack someone. That's something the chats have invented.

    That's simply not true, plain false actually. I feel like you've never actually competed for top ranks and are just blaming everything on shardchats.

    Demonstrate, empirically, a correct & incorrect time to attack someone. Your answer will be based on an opinion on how the game should be played.

    I have no idea whether or not a shard chat even exists on my shard. I rank 20-50, so probably not in their firing line.

    As stated previously, I just have an issue with a lack of self awareness.

    Anyway, off you pop - there's others here who are conversing like an adult that I'm more interested in hearing from.

    You know full well i can't empirically demonstrate that it has been common knowledge since before shardchats that the ideal time to attack is as close as possible to your own pay-out. If you don't do that you'll be hit more often regardless of whether or not there's a shardchat.
    You keep throwing false statements into the conversation without actually knowing what you're talking about, yet you're the one who has an issue with the lack of self awareness of others. If anyone should just pop off it's you.

    Common knowledge doth not evidence make.

    Bit like saying religion is proof of god.

    Good use of the "no, you are" insult at the end there.
    I could ask you to provide evidence that shardchats invented the "right and wrong time to attack" since you're the one making the claim, so the burden of proof lies with you.
    I won't because i know you wouldn't be able to provide the proof even if you were right.

    That's wrong.

    You've said there is a right and wrong time to attack.

    It has to be have been introduced by some party as it's not in the game naturally.

    Those not in a shard chat just like to attack, and may time their attacks around a payout time.

    Those in a shard chat, as mentioned several times on this thread, manage payout times and get aggrieved when people not in their chat don't respect their arbitrary rules. There are varying levels of tolerance for this, and it sometimes results in a non chat participant being targeted by others who otherwise wouldn't do it.

    So which one acts like there is an objective right and wrong time to attack?
  • leef
    11957 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    Agreed. I would also add that there's no right or wrong time to attack someone. That's something the chats have invented.

    That's simply not true, plain false actually. I feel like you've never actually competed for top ranks and are just blaming everything on shardchats.

    Demonstrate, empirically, a correct & incorrect time to attack someone. Your answer will be based on an opinion on how the game should be played.

    I have no idea whether or not a shard chat even exists on my shard. I rank 20-50, so probably not in their firing line.

    As stated previously, I just have an issue with a lack of self awareness.

    Anyway, off you pop - there's others here who are conversing like an adult that I'm more interested in hearing from.

    You know full well i can't empirically demonstrate that it has been common knowledge since before shardchats that the ideal time to attack is as close as possible to your own pay-out. If you don't do that you'll be hit more often regardless of whether or not there's a shardchat.
    You keep throwing false statements into the conversation without actually knowing what you're talking about, yet you're the one who has an issue with the lack of self awareness of others. If anyone should just pop off it's you.

    But the common knowledge you speak of is the fiat of the shard chats. So is "we allow you to attack person ABC at only X time."

    Sometimes I'm going to be on a plane all day, or promised to play baseball or legos or pokemon or chess with the kids or (like now) have the flu and have no guarantee to even be awake at any particular time. Like the other poster I float 50-125 because I choose to run Qira and dont have an issue with them so they dont hurt me personally. But people saying being part of a shard chat doesn't penalize people outside of it arent being open minded.

    The game rules should be coded to take personal shard chat decision making out of it. Its not uniform or equal and can't be regulated.

    IMHO.

    No, that's not the common knowledge i speak of. I should have phrased it differently in hindsight; common knowlegde for players ranking high in arena* . It's not about being allowed, it's about not peeving ohters off.
    I don't think anyone actually said that shardchats don't penalize outsiders. It's basically a given that they will to a certain degree depending on how the shardchat operates.
    Lets take the shardchat out of the equation for a second. If you've been ranking high for a while you'll notice the only thing that determines whether you take #1 or #5 is sniping and locking since the regular players in the top5 are capable of easily defeating eachother on offense. What ends up happening is that you waste refreshes to try to outsmart eachother and one ends up with crap rewards. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that that's super inefficient and hurts everyone involved. It's fun for a while, but considering some of use have been playing for over 3 years you can understand you don't want to do that daily.
    And then it happens, you start a pact with one or multiple other players to make sure you don't waste eachothers attempts. One way could be to buddy up with 1 guy and lock eachother out in #1/2 so that a 3rd guy can't snipe you from #5/6, or you could all 3 just rotate ranks without have to go through the whole sniping/locking routine. The latter being more "fair", far more convinient and i would argue that it penalizes no one.
    And there you have it, a big bad shardchat is formed.
    The way i see it, shardchats aren't the problem, they're the sollution to a problem. The whole "competition" aspect of arena is a joke for top3 players, always has been, with or without shardchat.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef
    11957 posts Member
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    Agreed. I would also add that there's no right or wrong time to attack someone. That's something the chats have invented.

    That's simply not true, plain false actually. I feel like you've never actually competed for top ranks and are just blaming everything on shardchats.

    Demonstrate, empirically, a correct & incorrect time to attack someone. Your answer will be based on an opinion on how the game should be played.

    I have no idea whether or not a shard chat even exists on my shard. I rank 20-50, so probably not in their firing line.

    As stated previously, I just have an issue with a lack of self awareness.

    Anyway, off you pop - there's others here who are conversing like an adult that I'm more interested in hearing from.

    You know full well i can't empirically demonstrate that it has been common knowledge since before shardchats that the ideal time to attack is as close as possible to your own pay-out. If you don't do that you'll be hit more often regardless of whether or not there's a shardchat.
    You keep throwing false statements into the conversation without actually knowing what you're talking about, yet you're the one who has an issue with the lack of self awareness of others. If anyone should just pop off it's you.

    Common knowledge doth not evidence make.

    Bit like saying religion is proof of god.

    Good use of the "no, you are" insult at the end there.
    I could ask you to provide evidence that shardchats invented the "right and wrong time to attack" since you're the one making the claim, so the burden of proof lies with you.
    I won't because i know you wouldn't be able to provide the proof even if you were right.

    That's wrong.

    You've said there is a right and wrong time to attack.

    It has to be have been introduced by some party as it's not in the game naturally.

    Those not in a shard chat just like to attack, and may time their attacks around a payout time.

    Those in a shard chat, as mentioned several times on this thread, manage payout times and get aggrieved when people not in their chat don't respect their arbitrary rules. There are varying levels of tolerance for this, and it sometimes results in a non chat participant being targeted by others who otherwise wouldn't do it.

    So which one acts like there is an objective right and wrong time to attack?

    I actually wasn't the one who said there was a right and wrong time, but that's besides the point.

    what makes you say that it wasn't in the game naturally? Even without shardchats there's a right and a wrong time to attack, that is if you want to get an as high as possible rank at payout as efficiently as possible. This is not something people made up, i could probably prove it statistically if i had access to the data.
    that shardchats also set arbitrary rules doesn't change that.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef
    11957 posts Member
    to add on my previous comment;
    Hypothetically, if you're high ranked and you're attacking after your pay-out to stay top 10 for 4 hours past your PO, this won't benefit you at all if the majority of your leaderboard has their PO in between those 4 hours past your PO and your PO the next day. You'll still be pushed down to roughly the same rank over night.
    That's just common sense, no shardchat, no rules.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Nikoms565
    10417 posts Member
    edited March 15
    VonZant wrote: »
    Who is saying shard chats doesn't penalise those not in it?

    Play the game how you want to and others will do the same. You will not change their opinion or how to play the game any more than they will change yours.
    If you want things to change, take action yourself. Complaining that others aren't playing fair will get you nowhere.

    Wait, you mean posting in a video game forum thread won't accomplish anything?

    I have to rethink my life. ;)

    Awww crap.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: DeathStarVentDesigners - DVD for short.
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • CosmicJ
    139 posts Member
    VonZant wrote: »
    bh0mp9hrkmy3.png
    Is this you zaless? It is a poor roster if you're on a mature shard, so can see their point there.

    What does the quality of his roster matter? If he Can take 1st he can take 1st. You use 5 characters in arena. Not 170.

    Because as has been said many times in this thread, with a weak roster, the chances are when this JKR meta ends (soon), he/she will fade away again. If zaless was allowed into the chat, then once the new meta comes along, he/she likely won't have an answer to it. If the chat let everyone in like this it would be bloated and people wouldn't be earning their place.
    A quick search of me will show that I won't get Darth Revan, but I've got a decent roster to fall back on, so should be ok.

    I really don't see the logic here. Letting him into the shard chat has very little effect on the other members. If he doesn't keep up with the next meta, one of two things will happen.

    1. He has trouble with the new meta but manages to climb by doing a lot of battles. Still fine for the top guys, he's someone you can auto as you climb.
    2. He can't climb because the next meta is too strong. I.e. it doesn't impact the top guys one bit.

    Literally a new person joining chat only effects the people who share his po, and only while he is strong enough to climb up to the top. If the po he has is too busy, simply ask him to change his po to a less busy one.
  • CosmicJ
    139 posts Member
    A few about the simple facts as Im in the chat that Z was complaining about and started this general conversation

    1. We did help him and co ordinate with him so he could reach p1 by telling him who not to hit which was a grand total of six names on his climb and left lanes for him to get to p1 without hitting those people as we are all very aware of each other.
    2. We did not want him in chat as we are close group who "chat" and share info from lots of sources. Help each other test teams etc so we dont invite everyone in especially when they are a one team wonder with a gp of 1.5m after 3.5 years so we dont expect him to bring much to the table long term.
    3. Z ignored the no hit list 4 times in ten days and complained he should be able to hit who he wanted to his rules. He cost several players crystals which he didnt have to so we stopped coordinating with him as he was not working with us. We tried and gave him a pass many times but he just didnt care.
    4. no one is forced to attack anyone and there is no chat king. we are a collective with rules to benefit everyone. We fall out sometimes but we make up and move along.

    We treat snipers who climb outside of their PO and cost others crystals for fun and rude asshats as a game feature we must play against for fun. We get very few in our shard or out of chat as everyone is pretty chill.

    Its as simple as that

    p.s. we have had several non chat guys co ordinate with the chat fantastically well. We had 3 guys in one PO we could not talk to for over a year and we made it work with them and we never spoke so we are far from devil picking on someone. Hes just being an entailed self rude fool.

    There are two sides to every story. But i don't understand why you run a closed group. This might be part of the reason why people might not play by your rules, they feel excluded... because they are.

    You can easily create a separate channel in discord for information sharing.
  • The issue I have is people not making the effort to reach out, and then swan into top 10 because of this boring revan meta that's been around for 6 months and now under geared rubbish revan teams can take a pop at top places.

    Where have you been for the past 3 years? You're on the same shard yet you never made the effort to try and go for top, or you never tried to get in touch.

    You get sniped too bad. It's PVP, enjoy the battle. A few people get lucky and get to top 10 sometimes 1, but they're the exception that makes the rule ;)
  • Kyno
    20118 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    These posts always get taken down. It was the subject matter, not the content. It's ridiculous.

    That's not true. Posts that violate the Forum Guidelines are removed.

    Posts of this content are left open as long as they will remain civil, which is not always the case, but in instances like that they are just closed, not removed.

    I'm assuming the reason the thread was taken down, was because people were "named and shamed". That said, why couldn't a mod have edited out the "naming and shaming" and leave the rest of the thread? There was some decent advice given in that thread to people who aren't able to break through shard chats, but the baby got thrown out with the bathwater.

    Sorry for the late reply.

    Editing peoples posts can sometimes have a negative reaction. I have learned this the hard way and now take the safer course of action of removing and letting the person sort it out.
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    If ONLY the person that Zaless supposedely was hitting at his payout decided to seek his revenge on Zaless by hitting him back, then there's nothing wrong with that. But to have multiple people who were not affected by Zaless's wrong doing decide to gang up on him, that's an issue. That's why this situation is bad and why this particular shard chat is wrong.

    I’d be surprised if there are many shard chats where this doesn’t happen. It’s never just about sharing times.
  • EA_Rtas
    549 posts EA Moderator
    edited March 19
    Alright folks, let's leave out posting peoples rosters in screenshots please and stop the stat shaming. There's no need for it. I've edited it out of most of the posts in here so please do not repost it.
  • Pile
    251 posts Member
    CHFC22 wrote: »
    A few about the simple facts as Im in the chat that Z was complaining about and started this general conversation

    1. We did help him and co ordinate with him so he could reach p1 by telling him who not to hit which was a grand total of six names on his climb and left lanes for him to get to p1 without hitting those people as we are all very aware of each other.
    2. We did not want him in chat as we are close group who "chat" and share info from lots of sources. Help each other test teams etc so we dont invite everyone in especially when they are a one team wonder with a gp of 1.5m after 3.5 years so we dont expect him to bring much to the table long term.
    3. Z ignored the no hit list 4 times in ten days and complained he should be able to hit who he wanted to his rules. He cost several players crystals which he didnt have to so we stopped coordinating with him as he was not working with us. We tried and gave him a pass many times but he just didnt care.
    4. no one is forced to attack anyone and there is no chat king. we are a collective with rules to benefit everyone. We fall out sometimes but we make up and move along.

    We treat snipers who climb outside of their PO and cost others crystals for fun and rude asshats as a game feature we must play against for fun. We get very few in our shard or out of chat as everyone is pretty chill.

    Its as simple as that

    p.s. we have had several non chat guys co ordinate with the chat fantastically well. We had 3 guys in one PO we could not talk to for over a year and we made it work with them and we never spoke so we are far from devil picking on someone. Hes just being an entailed self rude fool.

    Your argument is well worded, and thanks for the explanation. However, the issue, for me at least, is that your definition of fun isn't compatible with someone who wants to play the arena as an arena, and not another form of co-op. I also don't think it's relevant that you see him as a 1 hit wonder - right now he's beating you guys in a fair fight. He's done the right thing by approaching you but you've rejected him, yet you still expect him to play by your rules but without any of the corresponding benefits.

    This right here is what gets those of us who are not chat members. In my opinion, the spirit of arena was intended to be an all out fight for first in your payout window. For better or worse, chats have turned many arenas into calculated payout distribution entities where only certain members have access to top rewards.
  • If thats what u wanted a ffa dont join a chat u get the ffa u wanted by being attacked by everyone
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