Sorry but, how does HK Lead 'limit the space we have to design new characters' and Revan's does not?
March 16, 2019 9:07AM
edited March 2019
Op title: Sorry but, how is HK Lead OP and Revan is not?
Edit: Man I wish I hadn't been lazy when writing the title. I should not have used the phrase 'op'. I wrote this same question on reddit phrased in a much longer and better way. I don't think cg think his lead is op, I understand that they are worried about loops etc.
This post was a knee **** reaction to me being annoyed at the likely HK lead nerf because he is one of the few droid leads. In retrospect I can see that HK lead might actually be holding back the Droid faction and CG has the potential to fix things for the better going forward. In truth I expect he will go from being an 'a' tier droid lead to a 'b or c' tier lead but you never know. So yeah I'm annoyed, because I don't trust cg to replace his lead with one that is even half as good, but yes I understand why they are doing it. We just want more, decent, droid leads please.
*** op ***
As someone who focuses on using droids in this game, despite their non-meta and sub-optimal status, this HK update is the worst possible news for droid users.
CG you feel HK breaks the game? I've run HK lead for nearly 2 years now and never got higher than 50. I've got decent mod sets, g12+ and all the droids. Even with the Sep rework I only know a handful of other droid enthusiasts that stay top 10 with droids, most in part staying that high due to shard chats.
Can you seriously say that HK lead, one of the only actual droid specific lead apart from GG, Poggle and CN, needs removing from the game? Do you really not want people to use anything other than the current meta? Revan's lead and ability set gives him access to nearly every power in the game, and yet HK is what you decide needs a complete rework?
I don't get or aim for top 50 in squad arena. I stay 50 to 100 and am happy there. CG you've refused to tweak the Sep rework (specifically B1) against Revan which we have accepted and now you look like you are nerfing the only other viable droid lead. Can you see why some people in the swgoh community have lost all faith in you? What happened to "This will not make or break the Droid meta"? His lead is Droid specific, how is this possibly going to affect the incoming Revan meta?
It's been no easy task to balance a HK Team with the right amount of damage and other abilities to control/finish the fight since newer Teams are more durable.
I mean: a) droids with HK wasnt Meta, even after GG Rework
b) L3 missed a Leader ability
c) C3PO offers nothing for droids
d) 4-LOM wasnt in BH pass so we expect he won't come
e) Grievous Rework doesn't break with HK lead, is specifically designed to synergise with othe sep droids, and still can't make the meta.
f) HK crit lead was already countered in many ways GK, Zarris, Rex, even Biggs at old days and even CLS is a nightmare now
g) that leaves JTR as best droid lead which is mostly for LS Droids and is an unintentional design oddity anyway
i) leaving us with Poggle and Nebit... Some of the most outdated characters in the game...
Edit: Man I wish I hadn't been lazy when writing the title. I should not have used the phrase 'op'. I wrote this same question on reddit phrased in a much longer and better way. I don't think cg think his lead is op, I understand that they are worried about loops etc.
This post was a knee **** reaction to me being annoyed at the likely HK lead nerf because he is one of the few droid leads. In retrospect I can see that HK lead might actually be holding back the Droid faction and CG has the potential to fix things for the better going forward. In truth I expect he will go from being an 'a' tier droid lead to a 'b or c' tier lead but you never know. So yeah I'm annoyed, because I don't trust cg to replace his lead with one that is even half as good, but yes I understand why they are doing it. We just want more, decent, droid leads please.
*** op ***
As someone who focuses on using droids in this game, despite their non-meta and sub-optimal status, this HK update is the worst possible news for droid users.
CG you feel HK breaks the game? I've run HK lead for nearly 2 years now and never got higher than 50. I've got decent mod sets, g12+ and all the droids. Even with the Sep rework I only know a handful of other droid enthusiasts that stay top 10 with droids, most in part staying that high due to shard chats.
Can you seriously say that HK lead, one of the only actual droid specific lead apart from GG, Poggle and CN, needs removing from the game? Do you really not want people to use anything other than the current meta? Revan's lead and ability set gives him access to nearly every power in the game, and yet HK is what you decide needs a complete rework?
I don't get or aim for top 50 in squad arena. I stay 50 to 100 and am happy there. CG you've refused to tweak the Sep rework (specifically B1) against Revan which we have accepted and now you look like you are nerfing the only other viable droid lead. Can you see why some people in the swgoh community have lost all faith in you? What happened to "This will not make or break the Droid meta"? His lead is Droid specific, how is this possibly going to affect the incoming Revan meta?
It's been no easy task to balance a HK Team with the right amount of damage and other abilities to control/finish the fight since newer Teams are more durable.
I mean: a) droids with HK wasnt Meta, even after GG Rework
b) L3 missed a Leader ability
c) C3PO offers nothing for droids
d) 4-LOM wasnt in BH pass so we expect he won't come
e) Grievous Rework doesn't break with HK lead, is specifically designed to synergise with othe sep droids, and still can't make the meta.
f) HK crit lead was already countered in many ways GK, Zarris, Rex, even Biggs at old days and even CLS is a nightmare now
g) that leaves JTR as best droid lead which is mostly for LS Droids and is an unintentional design oddity anyway
i) leaving us with Poggle and Nebit... Some of the most outdated characters in the game...
Post edited by SixTwoFour on
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Just an example, but see how cooldown reduce started to appear here and there in faction synergies.
Now droids for instance can never have that mechanic as long as there is the HK lead as it is and at least one AoE damage dealer that can crit at least twice.
It's just a possible scenario. I'd wait to see how it all plays out before coming to a conclusion.
Perhaps they are planning to implement new droid synergies, perhaps they just want HK to be a "forced" ally to DR. We'll find out soon enough.
DR should be the best as its currently the hardest to get.
So many things wrong with this statement. I'm not going to go into a philosophical debate with you but I'll just say you've been brainwashed and I'm sorry.
Of course you won't. Made me chuckle again.
Sorry that's not true. Have you actually read the hk leadership?
https://swgoh.gg/characters/hk-47/
The reasons are on the dev post and they are logical. The lead isnt OP, it just no longer functions with the intended direction of the game (i.e expect some toons on the future who would have created carnage under his current lead + the rework)
HK is a relic from early game where he was stuck in as a filler toon with a weak supporting cast that had one shot at glory when Jawa Engineer was a thing. Since, and before he has been useless.
He's a Kotor toon, who is an assassin droid, created by Revan, who works for Revan. I don't know why you think reworking him (which he's long overdue) to synergise with Revan is a bad thing?
If you want to play with droids they just reworked a whole bunch of them. HK is for slaying meatbags, not leading droids.
Discord: Iona Starbound#5299
1.) A rework should make a character better, not worse. At least that's what most players expect. removing HKs leadership ability will break a lot of (not meta, but GA viable) droid teams.
2.) There's nothing wrong with adding synergy for Darth Revan, he built him. But the droid synergy could have been left untouched for everyone who won't get Darth Revan so soon, and for everyone who just loved playing with droids. I just can't see how it would be "game-breaking" even if droids became arena viable to a certain degree. At best it would lead to more variation and balance.
3.) There is no alternative to use instead of HK-47 for all droids. Grievous only works for separatists.
Plus they didnt say they where removing it just leaning towards reworking his lead
There was no such promise. CG made a vague ambiguous statement which everyone who loves droids interpreted as a promise because that's what they wanted to hear.
Discord: Iona Starbound#5299
On point one, we haven't even seen the rework yet. For all we know he could be an absolute slayer with Darth Revan. Then one could argue it has made him better.
Second point, they gave their reason! Keeping his leader in won't work with future content. Either this means a) new toons will be able to manipulate HKs lead to create unintended consequences of b.) They intend to do other things with droids. It's probably a combination of both.
Thirdly, the other droids only half worked with HK lead because it was the only viable lead. IG for example is great under Boba or Bossk lead (bounty hunters) and R2, Bb8 work best supporting other factions (rebels/resistance). The same could be said for IPD - better under Empire lead than Hk
1.) Sure, he'll probably be great under Darth Revan, but HKs leader ability is kind of sacrificed without a direct alternative to use as droid lead. Maybe it's just a timing problem, nevertheless it has an impact.
2.) In your previous post, you called it "logical" and that was what I disagreed with. Even if they are going to add other droids anytime later, that would not be of any help right now. We already have 16 droids, what we need would be at least one more of them getting a leader ability that works for all droids. Then they should have done it a while before the HK rework. I would still like to know, even if there could come a time when HKs lead would make other characters arena viable or even meta counters: how would anyone call that "game-breaking" when it would only lead to more variety and therefore balance, instead of only 1 meta in the top 20-50.
3.) What you forget is modes like 3v3 grand arena. I got used to setting HK, T3 and Chopper for defense, and the team was never beaten on first try, I guess because people underestimated it and threw something too weak against it. It was a great way to strategically use all left-over droids that I did not use anymore on the other faction teams. Sabine is better than Chopper in a Phoenix squad, for Old Republic same will go for T3 as soon as my Juhani will be strong enough, just to give these 2 examples. Besides that, don't think every player is a veteran and has all the characters. HKs lead offered a plug'n'play option that will be highly missed. And again, it would all be no problem at all if there was a true alternative.
This. What everyone complaining about how changing his lead will ruin droids doesn’t understand is that HK’s lead is precisely what has been holding droids back for so long. He gives so much turn meter that there’s too fine a line between mediocre and invincible for droids to get any truly powerful toons without them specifically being designed to not work with HK (like B1). This will open up opportunities to make droid teams much more useful in many aspects of the game.
1.) Like he said we dont know what the changes are, so there is o way to know how it impacts anything.
2.)Not all 16 droids need a droid leader, but you are right we could use some new droid leaders. At the same time until we know how HK leader is changed there is no reason to cry about it.
3.) Same as other 2 points, wait and then if its bad complain.
Not to mention that his lead is getting reworked, not scrapped. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what they come up with and what it will mean for Droids as a faction.
Probably going to nerf him and make his Current leader ability a zeta ability, with a few more bonuses, like target lock and bonus protection, etc.