GP Matchmaking & “Fluff”

Replies

  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    I don't see an issue in GA matchmaking. Ppl play very differently, can't all be winners in this one limited game mode. Ppl like to complain cuz they farmed every ship in existence and have 1 g12 toon at 4 mil gp. Boo hoo. everyone has known for years now where the end game is.
    My problem is with the TW sandbagging. Why is that not fixed yet? It's been months! I could've walked there and done it myself by now and walked back home across the country!

    You cant complain about sandbagging in tw , if you are ok with it in GA, but yeah i guess in GA it benefits you and tw it doesnt. So that would be why

    Well in TW it's been an issue for a very long time, and involves people sitting out to fudge the matching system. There's no real sandbagging in GA, as you can't leave out parts of your roster to gain an advantage. The only real complaint there about it, ship gp, has already been addressed as being fixed soon.

    How is a person sitting out different, than ppl not using excess gear on their toons to keep gp lower. It seems a lot like leaving ppl out of tw to get an easier matchup?

    The TW one is worse, but they never explain the matching system. In my experience, the TW one exploits the system, as it tends to match equal active gp but assumes equal members entered. So if I drop ten, and end up with 140, I'll match with a 140 with more active ppl in, always. It's an active exploit, and takes coordination to cheat the system.
    In GA, leaner rosters are more effective, and a lot of ppl started using that to their advantage when TW started, if not before. There are so many toons that are garbage, there's no reason or justification to gear them anyway, so there's no way to know for sure who's doing it intentionally.
    Personally, if a team isn't good in a raid, needed for an event, or a good counter to something I see allot then why would I waste resources on it?
    That's all resource management skills. Some ppl are better at that than others, some ppl gamble on what may have uses later, but it's all personal choice.

    So, again, how is it not the same. Take ypur weakest members who are useless in tw out to get a better matchup, like not gearing up useless toons, so you get a gp matchup of the same # but with half the toons, sounds exactly like what you describe for TW?

    The difference is that for TW, as long as you drop someone (doesn't even need to be the lowest), you will be matched with a guild with lower total everything. Not sure why it works this way, but it does every time we do it. 130m active gp usually faces 100m active gp this way. It's bugged as hell.

    It's not at all like GA players not ranking up cup and plo koon, and focusing on more useful toons. that's resource management.

    Sorta like not using certain users in tw, who arent useful., like plo and cup in GA. Matchmaking needs to be fixed in both events. Arguing for just one, is silly and selfish. If you should have "fair" matchmaking on TW , you should have "fair" matchmaking in GA. Period

    I get what you mean, but of the two, tw has a buggy exploit. Matchmaking (Whether you see it as good or bad) is mostly the same in both events. That was my point.
    But don't take my word for it, find me in discord and dig thru our dsr bot channel. You'll see just how bugged it is when you exploit the matchmaking in TW.

    But if you match 2 guilds evenly that will be basically a mirror match , so they should be allowed to manipulate the system. Right isn't that the argument of lean vs lean rosters? Again how is this different. Some guilds get easier matches , some impossible , just like GA. So. just get better as a guild, its what GA ppl are being told. So doesnt that apply here too.

    Lol I definitely don't have a lean roster, but I'm still undefeated in GA cuz I know my counters, and farm new ones whenever I can.
    But yea, essentially if the matchmaking worked it would be a contest of who can use their teams more efficiently, like GA currently is.
    Fluff can be made up for, a lack of interest in getting the most effective teams cannot.
  • Waqui
    6054 posts Member
    How about this perspective... if you benefit by not activating a toon, its probably a flawed system.
    How about this perspective... if you benefit by not activating a toon, its probably a flawed system.

    How about this perspective:
    If you benefit from building the strong characters strongly then it's a good system.
  • Waqui
    6054 posts Member
    BeralCator wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »

    As Daishi mentioned in his own discussion:
    If match-making always matched you with players with similar GP, similar characters, similar zetas, similar mods etc. we would always have mirror matches - which is also boring.

    I think what we're asking for is a better GP formula that results in pairing of players with a similar NUMBER of zetas, characters per gear tier, and mods on those characters.

    A lot have also complained about being matched against players with the new META characters, when they don't have them themselves. But OK, they are not you :-)
    Obviously, players that made good choices on what characters to gear and zeta should be rewarded for astuteness. If I take my Lobot to G12, put a zeta on Clone Wars Chewbacca, and load my characters with bad mods, I don't deserve to win in TW or GA.

    And if players take the characters all the way to lvl 85 / g11-g12 instead of taking twice as many characters to lvl 60 / g7, they built a stronger roster as well, and should benefit. It seems like we agree on this part.
    However, I don't see value in punishing players who want to, y'know, *play* in other areas of the game with non-viable G8 characters.

    A. Noone is punished. Nothing is taken away from anybody.
    B. How often do you really "play" with your fluff characters? If I take my magmatrooper to lvl 85 / g11 I may use it in other game modes, but I doubt I will use my lvl 53 / g7 magmatrooper for anything. I would only consider the latter fluff.
    There's no scarcity in low-end gear, credits, or purple mats for long-time players, so why shouldn't we be able to use them without crippling ourselves in other game modes?

    You still benefit from it in TB.
    The game is supposed to be fun, and should encourage people to experiment with squad composition, strategies, etc. - it's not very good game design if you're encouraging your user base to willfully neglect 25-50% of the game content to game the matchmaking algorithm.

    If fluffing up your roster is fun, then why the fuss?

  • No_Try
    3819 posts Member
    @Waqui I've yet to see a person with so many thoughts about a subject with zero inclination or thoughts about how it can improved xD
  • CosmicJ
    224 posts Member
    I'll say it again because these things seem to get lost...

    The thing that determines everything (player skill, mods, roster choices, strength etc) is how often you win and your GP. GP and win/loss (over multiple GA's) is the simplest and fairest way to matchmake.

    No need for complicated algorithms.
  • Waqui
    6054 posts Member
    edited March 16
    No_Try wrote: »
    @Waqui I've yet to see a person with so many thoughts about a subject with zero inclination or thoughts about how it can improved xD

    Now that ships GP is no longet included in the match making in GAs with no ships (they announced the change weeks ago) I see no need for further changes.
  • Waqui
    6054 posts Member
    CosmicJ wrote: »
    I'll say it again because these things seem to get lost...

    The thing that determines everything (player skill, mods, roster choices, strength etc) is how often you win and your GP. GP and win/loss (over multiple GA's) is the simplest and fairest way to matchmake.

    No need for complicated algorithms.

    For this to be fair, the rewards should be differentiated as well. Players with high win/loss ratio should win better prizes than players with low ratio. If we all still battle for the same rewards your suggestion would be unfair.

    (Just repeating it, so that it won't get lost :-) )
  • Might be a bit off topic, but in my last GA, I was playing a guy in the finals who had Revan, Traya and g12+ stuff on almost all his main teams. I have none of that and I managed to beat him. We cleared each other's boards but I was 40 points above him in the end because I was more efficient with my attacks. What I'm trying to say is that if you know the counters and play it smart, you can overcome stronger rosters or meta toons. It seems that some people like to instantly give up if they see their enemy has 10 more g12 than they have, or one more meta team/toon, or a few more zetas, and then just go to the forums to vent and complain. Just don't give up! In the end it's a test of skill and you often can win even if it doesn't seem that way before the battle starts and you feel undermatched.

    I don’t believe the majority of people complaining about matchmaking believe that it’s impossible to win if you’re at a disadvantage. But in a truly fair matching system, should there be a disadvantage for 1 player before the start of a match?

    It’s like playing golf and one person starts 100 feet closer to the hole. The person farther back can still win, but it’s not truly a fair match.

    No, it’s basically like matching two tennis players who have essentially trained for the same number of hours but focused on different things.

    Player A focused on training his services and returns. He has a high service ace rate and it is difficult to do a service ace against him. Any average service is returned at high velocity to the other extreme corner. He can’t really take lobs or play long drawn out rallies, and neither is he adept at slicing or rushing up to smash.

    Player B trained on everything. He is average at pretty much everything.

    You’ll pretty much see player A “dominating” because he’s just gonna get points from serving and returning. Yet, when u go up the divisions, this “focus on the most efficient method” tends to slowly start losing out. So once u reach 4m gp, this really doesnt matter anymore.
  • CosmicJ
    224 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    CosmicJ wrote: »
    I'll say it again because these things seem to get lost...

    The thing that determines everything (player skill, mods, roster choices, strength etc) is how often you win and your GP. GP and win/loss (over multiple GA's) is the simplest and fairest way to matchmake.

    No need for complicated algorithms.

    For this to be fair, the rewards should be differentiated as well. Players with high win/loss ratio should win better prizes than players with low ratio. If we all still battle for the same rewards your suggestion would be unfair.

    (Just repeating it, so that it won't get lost :-) )

    100%.

    The rewards should be tiered based on win bracket and gp.
  • Waqui
    6054 posts Member
    CosmicJ wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    CosmicJ wrote: »
    I'll say it again because these things seem to get lost...

    The thing that determines everything (player skill, mods, roster choices, strength etc) is how often you win and your GP. GP and win/loss (over multiple GA's) is the simplest and fairest way to matchmake.

    No need for complicated algorithms.

    For this to be fair, the rewards should be differentiated as well. Players with high win/loss ratio should win better prizes than players with low ratio. If we all still battle for the same rewards your suggestion would be unfair.

    (Just repeating it, so that it won't get lost :-) )

    100%.

    The rewards should be tiered based on win bracket and gp.

    I'm glad, we agree :-)

    Furthermore, to make it fair, players with 0/3 wins in higher brackets should win better rewards than players with 3/3 wins in lower brackets.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    @Waqui I've yet to see a person with so many thoughts about a subject with zero inclination or thoughts about how it can improved xD

    Now that ships GP is no longet included in the match making in GAs with no ships (they announced the change weeks ago) I see no need for further changes.

    This. The biggest complaint about GA so far was ship gp being counted when no ships were present.
    Plus, as l said before, even a fluffy roster player can win if they actually work on the teams that perform well in these arenas.
  • So much this.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    CosmicJ wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    CosmicJ wrote: »
    I'll say it again because these things seem to get lost...

    The thing that determines everything (player skill, mods, roster choices, strength etc) is how often you win and your GP. GP and win/loss (over multiple GA's) is the simplest and fairest way to matchmake.

    No need for complicated algorithms.

    For this to be fair, the rewards should be differentiated as well. Players with high win/loss ratio should win better prizes than players with low ratio. If we all still battle for the same rewards your suggestion would be unfair.

    (Just repeating it, so that it won't get lost :-) )

    100%.

    The rewards should be tiered based on win bracket and gp.

    I'm glad, we agree :-)

    Furthermore, to make it fair, players with 0/3 wins in higher brackets should win better rewards than players with 3/3 wins in lower brackets.

    Yeah but the rewards should be different for different gp brackets anyway. The types of items that are most valuable for 1m gp with a very under levelled roster may not be the same for a 5m gp player.

    Ultimately, yes, the best rewards should go to the highest gp bracket. It just promotes progression in this game.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    There are always gonna be differences in the GA matchups, we all agree on that. No matter which metric they use whether straight GP, number of zetas, number of G12, number of legendaies, Etc there will always be some who will win and some who will lose.

    This new (probably soon to be abandoned GA) is a good example. I have reached the final of every GA so far. Won some and lost some. This time round in my group 3 of the 8 have good Revan squads and if they put them on defence (which I would) it will be very tough indeed to get through them. Pretty much means I won't be able to clear and thus will probably lose that round.

    Bummer? Aye but it doesn't discourage me or make me particularly salty, just makes me more determined that next time Revan comes around I will be ready for him and will get my own. Then I will have a counter for him and I will be more competitive in this and other game modes. And that's kinda the point.

    GA, probably more than any other area of the game, shows places where your roster needs improving. It should make you sit down and look at what you need to work on. Regardless of how much fluff you might have you only need X teams for your bracket and that means a total of X toons for those teams. Plan out those teams, plan out those toons and start working. The faster you do that, the faster you will see results.

    Some people's rosters will always be stronger due to many factors, spending money in game, top rank guilds, very focused player, etc. But it is within your grasp to make your roster better, if you choose to.

    If not, then maybe accepting that GA may not be the game mode for you, is your way forward

    As with so many things in this game, YMMV

    What do you not understand ...all this prior GA..and a huge chunk post TB pre TW..read the game philosophy...posted multiple times a few pages back. If those so called fluff toons weren't meant to be used why are they selling shards or have nodes to collect them. You guys are playing hop scotch with the issue...which remains....GA is in no way fair...

    Will someone any one of you please share why you feel must be given matches you can easily win vs earning the rewards you receive to continue to be matched against players who can not beat you.

    Why is GA I only for you..how about being matched with only players of your similar focus instead..and all players to be matched the same..similar roster/ focus/ toons/ res distribution/ play style....and you guys on the other focus vs your piers.





    Nobody ever told you to fluff your roster..... Period.

    Those toons and nodes to contact left them are there for when it is time to focus on collecting that team.... Nothing more nothing less.....

    And no one told you how to at your game either...still answer me why you feel you should be matched vs people who are no challenge to you in favor of someone else who is. Answer why you shouldn't have to face the kind of matches I have. Because you have different play style..guess what I do too.

    Again, I face many challenging matchups.... You would be surprised how many players focus on one team at a time and build them up.....

    So, to answer your question, because my roster was carefully built towards this type of gameplay I deserve to reap the rewards for my effort, patience and focus.....

    What makes you feel you should be able to build a fluffy roster and still be competitive?...

    [...]

    Before GA there was no "Right or Wrong Way" to build a roster. Now with GA, suddenly many of us have been doing it "Wrong" this whole time and we've never been warned or encouraged. That's not right. No matter who you are, what choices you've made, THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

    There still is no 'right or wrong way' to build your roster. However, how you choose to build your roster influences your chances for success in the different game modes. That's part of the game.

    If there's no wrong way, this thread wouldn't exist.

    There are different ways, yes, and they give you different chances of winning a GA, yes. There's no right or wrong way.

    Okay fine.

    Up until GA there was no BEST way to have a roster. But since GA dropped, it has become clear what the BEST way to have your roster is. Those of us who developed our rosters any way other than this new BEST way is now forced to suffer the consequences of our choices, which were at the time neither good or bad choices.

    That ain't right.

    Better?

    GA didn't introduce anything new, which wasn't already introduced a year earlier with TW, in regard to what would make a strong roster or a weak roster. Fluff GP has the exact same effect on match-making in TW as it does in GA. Many players simply didn't realize how their fluff GP potentially hurt their guild until GA hit.

    Players, who chose to fluff up their roster GP now have a choice to make:
    To continue or to stop fluffing up their roster.

    GA is absolutely brand new. In TW you have 50 people with a mixture of amped TB and post TW release focus.

    And so does your openents 50 teams.

    GA you are one or the other

    Persepctive will getnyou every time.

    So the choice is be penalised for joining pre TW, or start a new account in orser to compete. If thats fair then ita obvious when you joined.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    There are always gonna be differences in the GA matchups, we all agree on that. No matter which metric they use whether straight GP, number of zetas, number of G12, number of legendaies, Etc there will always be some who will win and some who will lose.

    This new (probably soon to be abandoned GA) is a good example. I have reached the final of every GA so far. Won some and lost some. This time round in my group 3 of the 8 have good Revan squads and if they put them on defence (which I would) it will be very tough indeed to get through them. Pretty much means I won't be able to clear and thus will probably lose that round.

    Bummer? Aye but it doesn't discourage me or make me particularly salty, just makes me more determined that next time Revan comes around I will be ready for him and will get my own. Then I will have a counter for him and I will be more competitive in this and other game modes. And that's kinda the point.

    GA, probably more than any other area of the game, shows places where your roster needs improving. It should make you sit down and look at what you need to work on. Regardless of how much fluff you might have you only need X teams for your bracket and that means a total of X toons for those teams. Plan out those teams, plan out those toons and start working. The faster you do that, the faster you will see results.

    Some people's rosters will always be stronger due to many factors, spending money in game, top rank guilds, very focused player, etc. But it is within your grasp to make your roster better, if you choose to.

    If not, then maybe accepting that GA may not be the game mode for you, is your way forward

    As with so many things in this game, YMMV

    What do you not understand ...all this prior GA..and a huge chunk post TB pre TW..read the game philosophy...posted multiple times a few pages back. If those so called fluff toons weren't meant to be used why are they selling shards or have nodes to collect them. You guys are playing hop scotch with the issue...which remains....GA is in no way fair...

    Will someone any one of you please share why you feel must be given matches you can easily win vs earning the rewards you receive to continue to be matched against players who can not beat you.

    Why is GA I only for you..how about being matched with only players of your similar focus instead..and all players to be matched the same..similar roster/ focus/ toons/ res distribution/ play style....and you guys on the other focus vs your piers.





    Nobody ever told you to fluff your roster..... Period.

    Those toons and nodes to contact left them are there for when it is time to focus on collecting that team.... Nothing more nothing less.....

    And no one told you how to at your game either...still answer me why you feel you should be matched vs people who are no challenge to you in favor of someone else who is. Answer why you shouldn't have to face the kind of matches I have. Because you have different play style..guess what I do too.

    Again, I face many challenging matchups.... You would be surprised how many players focus on one team at a time and build them up.....

    So, to answer your question, because my roster was carefully built towards this type of gameplay I deserve to reap the rewards for my effort, patience and focus.....

    What makes you feel you should be able to build a fluffy roster and still be competitive?...

    [...]

    Before GA there was no "Right or Wrong Way" to build a roster. Now with GA, suddenly many of us have been doing it "Wrong" this whole time and we've never been warned or encouraged. That's not right. No matter who you are, what choices you've made, THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

    There still is no 'right or wrong way' to build your roster. However, how you choose to build your roster influences your chances for success in the different game modes. That's part of the game.

    If there's no wrong way, this thread wouldn't exist.

    There are different ways, yes, and they give you different chances of winning a GA, yes. There's no right or wrong way.

    Okay fine.

    Up until GA there was no BEST way to have a roster. But since GA dropped, it has become clear what the BEST way to have your roster is. Those of us who developed our rosters any way other than this new BEST way is now forced to suffer the consequences of our choices, which were at the time neither good or bad choices.

    That ain't right.

    Better?

    GA didn't introduce anything new, which wasn't already introduced a year earlier with TW, in regard to what would make a strong roster or a weak roster. Fluff GP has the exact same effect on match-making in TW as it does in GA. Many players simply didn't realize how their fluff GP potentially hurt their guild until GA hit.

    Players, who chose to fluff up their roster GP now have a choice to make:
    To continue or to stop fluffing up their roster.

    GA is absolutely brand new. In TW you have 50 people with a mixture of amped TB and post TW release focus.

    And so does your openents 50 teams.

    GA you are one or the other

    Persepctive will getnyou every time.

    So the choice is be penalised for joining pre TW, or start a new account in orser to compete. If thats fair then ita obvious when you joined.

    You can turn a fluffy roster around in like 3 months. Just have to want to do it. Could even be less, as a lot of those may already be half done already. There's zero reason to start a new account.

    So many in my guild have every toon unlocked and half done, but they turned it around really quickly when GA was announced. You only need so many teams, so just focus on completing that many.
  • Waqui
    6054 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    There are always gonna be differences in the GA matchups, we all agree on that. No matter which metric they use whether straight GP, number of zetas, number of G12, number of legendaies, Etc there will always be some who will win and some who will lose.

    This new (probably soon to be abandoned GA) is a good example. I have reached the final of every GA so far. Won some and lost some. This time round in my group 3 of the 8 have good Revan squads and if they put them on defence (which I would) it will be very tough indeed to get through them. Pretty much means I won't be able to clear and thus will probably lose that round.

    Bummer? Aye but it doesn't discourage me or make me particularly salty, just makes me more determined that next time Revan comes around I will be ready for him and will get my own. Then I will have a counter for him and I will be more competitive in this and other game modes. And that's kinda the point.

    GA, probably more than any other area of the game, shows places where your roster needs improving. It should make you sit down and look at what you need to work on. Regardless of how much fluff you might have you only need X teams for your bracket and that means a total of X toons for those teams. Plan out those teams, plan out those toons and start working. The faster you do that, the faster you will see results.

    Some people's rosters will always be stronger due to many factors, spending money in game, top rank guilds, very focused player, etc. But it is within your grasp to make your roster better, if you choose to.

    If not, then maybe accepting that GA may not be the game mode for you, is your way forward

    As with so many things in this game, YMMV

    What do you not understand ...all this prior GA..and a huge chunk post TB pre TW..read the game philosophy...posted multiple times a few pages back. If those so called fluff toons weren't meant to be used why are they selling shards or have nodes to collect them. You guys are playing hop scotch with the issue...which remains....GA is in no way fair...

    Will someone any one of you please share why you feel must be given matches you can easily win vs earning the rewards you receive to continue to be matched against players who can not beat you.

    Why is GA I only for you..how about being matched with only players of your similar focus instead..and all players to be matched the same..similar roster/ focus/ toons/ res distribution/ play style....and you guys on the other focus vs your piers.





    Nobody ever told you to fluff your roster..... Period.

    Those toons and nodes to contact left them are there for when it is time to focus on collecting that team.... Nothing more nothing less.....

    And no one told you how to at your game either...still answer me why you feel you should be matched vs people who are no challenge to you in favor of someone else who is. Answer why you shouldn't have to face the kind of matches I have. Because you have different play style..guess what I do too.

    Again, I face many challenging matchups.... You would be surprised how many players focus on one team at a time and build them up.....

    So, to answer your question, because my roster was carefully built towards this type of gameplay I deserve to reap the rewards for my effort, patience and focus.....

    What makes you feel you should be able to build a fluffy roster and still be competitive?...

    [...]

    Before GA there was no "Right or Wrong Way" to build a roster. Now with GA, suddenly many of us have been doing it "Wrong" this whole time and we've never been warned or encouraged. That's not right. No matter who you are, what choices you've made, THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

    There still is no 'right or wrong way' to build your roster. However, how you choose to build your roster influences your chances for success in the different game modes. That's part of the game.

    If there's no wrong way, this thread wouldn't exist.

    There are different ways, yes, and they give you different chances of winning a GA, yes. There's no right or wrong way.

    Okay fine.

    Up until GA there was no BEST way to have a roster. But since GA dropped, it has become clear what the BEST way to have your roster is. Those of us who developed our rosters any way other than this new BEST way is now forced to suffer the consequences of our choices, which were at the time neither good or bad choices.

    That ain't right.

    Better?

    GA didn't introduce anything new, which wasn't already introduced a year earlier with TW, in regard to what would make a strong roster or a weak roster. Fluff GP has the exact same effect on match-making in TW as it does in GA. Many players simply didn't realize how their fluff GP potentially hurt their guild until GA hit.

    Players, who chose to fluff up their roster GP now have a choice to make:
    To continue or to stop fluffing up their roster.

    GA is absolutely brand new. In TW you have 50 people with a mixture of amped TB and post TW release focus.

    And so does your openents 50 teams.

    GA you are one or the other

    Persepctive will getnyou every time.

    So the choice is be penalised for joining pre TW, or start a new account in orser to compete. If thats fair then ita obvious when you joined.

    Yes, GA is brand new, but it didn't bring anything new with regards to fluff and matchmaking. The only difference between GA and TW is, that in TW your own personal fluff is only a drop in the 50 player ocean. However, the effect on matchmaking is the same - disregarden how old your account is.

  • Waqui
    6054 posts Member
    BeralCator wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    BeralCator wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »

    As Daishi mentioned in his own discussion:
    If match-making always matched you with players with similar GP, similar characters, similar zetas, similar mods etc. we would always have mirror matches - which is also boring.

    I think what we're asking for is a better GP formula that results in pairing of players with a similar NUMBER of zetas, characters per gear tier, and mods on those characters.

    A lot have also complained about being matched against players with the new META characters, when they don't have them themselves. But OK, they are not you :-)
    Obviously, players that made good choices on what characters to gear and zeta should be rewarded for astuteness. If I take my Lobot to G12, put a zeta on Clone Wars Chewbacca, and load my characters with bad mods, I don't deserve to win in TW or GA.

    And if players take the characters all the way to lvl 85 / g11-g12 instead of taking twice as many characters to lvl 60 / g7, they built a stronger roster as well, and should benefit. It seems like we agree on this part.
    However, I don't see value in punishing players who want to, y'know, *play* in other areas of the game with non-viable G8 characters.

    A. No one is punished. Nothing is taken away from anybody.
    B. How often do you really "play" with your fluff characters? If I take my magmatrooper to lvl 85 / g11 I may use it in other game modes, but I doubt I will use my lvl 53 / g7 magmatrooper for anything. I would only consider the latter fluff.
    There's no scarcity in low-end gear, credits, or purple mats for long-time players, so why shouldn't we be able to use them without crippling ourselves in other game modes?

    You still benefit from it in TB.
    The game is supposed to be fun, and should encourage people to experiment with squad composition, strategies, etc. - it's not very good game design if you're encouraging your user base to willfully neglect 25-50% of the game content to game the matchmaking algorithm.

    If fluffing up your roster is fun, then why the fuss?

    I'm not sure I buy your logic, because taking characters up to lvl 85 and gear 7 doesn't hinder one's ability to take characters to G12 - there's no scarcity in credits, purple mats or low level gear. The person who actively chooses to leave CUP at G1 isn't getting other characters to G12 any faster, he just has 5001 Mk 1 Neuro-Saav Electrobinoculars sitting around instead of 5000. This isn't a skillful allocation of resources, but more like cutting weight to box in a lower weight class.

    What's your point with this? I don't see this is an argument against why comments. Which part of my comments are you discussing here?
    I also think people are overstating the benefit in TB.

    Some people do, yes. Agreed. However, the benefit (big or small) is there.
    I realize that the game is what it is, and that players have a choice in how they manage their rosters. People who continue to gear and level weak and marginal characters are going to be non-competitive against those who had the foresight to leave them alone. This is perhaps mildly unfair to those who started playing the game before TW and GA were a thing, but it should self-correct over time as user behaviour changes and the ratio of meat to fat increase.

    I don't see it as being unfair to anyone, just because they started playing before TW. If they fluffed up their roster before TW was introduced, they still had that benefit in TB earning those extra points and rewards for more than a year before GA was introduced
    I'm rather trying to make the point that implementing game modes that actively encourage your user base not to gear and level characters is bad game design, and that matchmaking that generates non-competitive matches is objectively bad.

    Not necessarily. Since we all battle for the same rewards, the current system is fine.

    Even matchmaking, while everyone still battles for the exact same prizes (as we all do now) would not encourage players to improve their rosters and build them stronger. No matter how weak or how strong your roster is you would still have even match-ups and more or less the same chance to win the same prizes. This would be terrible game design. Hence the need for different rewards brackets and significant differences in rewards if even match-making would work.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    I'm rather trying to make the point that implementing game modes that actively encourage your user base not to gear and level characters is bad game design, and that matchmaking that generates non-competitive matches is objectively bad.

    Not necessarily. Since we all battle for the same rewards, the current system is fine.

    Even matchmaking, while everyone still battles for the exact same prizes (as we all do now) would not encourage players to improve their rosters and build them stronger. No matter how weak or how strong your roster is you would still have even match-ups and more or less the same chance to win the same prizes. This would be terrible game design. Hence the need for different rewards brackets and significant differences in rewards if even match-making would work.

    OK, I think you and I agree here. I didn't actually realize that lower GP brackets have identical rewards - I've always been in the 4mil+ group and had assumed the lower brackets had scaled rewards. That's nuts - someone placing 11 teams needs way more zetas/omegas/gear/mod salvage than someone placing 4.

    Yes, it would be totally unfair for people with well-curated rosters to always have to fight each other for the same rewards as everyone else. That's not what I'm suggesting at all. I want to see either:

    a) a system that pairs players with similar numbers of zetas and G12 characters AND that scales the rewards accordingly.
    or
    b) a system that lets players select the risk/reward level. For instance, the top two finishers in each GA could have the option to move up and try for better prizes or play it safe and stay in their current pool.

    Here's a question for everyone:
    Would you rather have a game more where you win 50% of the time or a game mode where you lose 100% of the time but net slightly better rewards?

    If more people like the latter, then I guess the current system is fine and I'm the outlier (although in full disclosure, I've won 1-2 rounds in every GA so far).




  • Rath_Tarr
    2430 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    There are always gonna be differences in the GA matchups, we all agree on that. No matter which metric they use whether straight GP, number of zetas, number of G12, number of legendaies, Etc there will always be some who will win and some who will lose.

    This new (probably soon to be abandoned GA) is a good example. I have reached the final of every GA so far. Won some and lost some. This time round in my group 3 of the 8 have good Revan squads and if they put them on defence (which I would) it will be very tough indeed to get through them. Pretty much means I won't be able to clear and thus will probably lose that round.

    Bummer? Aye but it doesn't discourage me or make me particularly salty, just makes me more determined that next time Revan comes around I will be ready for him and will get my own. Then I will have a counter for him and I will be more competitive in this and other game modes. And that's kinda the point.

    GA, probably more than any other area of the game, shows places where your roster needs improving. It should make you sit down and look at what you need to work on. Regardless of how much fluff you might have you only need X teams for your bracket and that means a total of X toons for those teams. Plan out those teams, plan out those toons and start working. The faster you do that, the faster you will see results.

    Some people's rosters will always be stronger due to many factors, spending money in game, top rank guilds, very focused player, etc. But it is within your grasp to make your roster better, if you choose to.

    If not, then maybe accepting that GA may not be the game mode for you, is your way forward

    As with so many things in this game, YMMV

    What do you not understand ...all this prior GA..and a huge chunk post TB pre TW..read the game philosophy...posted multiple times a few pages back. If those so called fluff toons weren't meant to be used why are they selling shards or have nodes to collect them. You guys are playing hop scotch with the issue...which remains....GA is in no way fair...

    Will someone any one of you please share why you feel must be given matches you can easily win vs earning the rewards you receive to continue to be matched against players who can not beat you.

    Why is GA I only for you..how about being matched with only players of your similar focus instead..and all players to be matched the same..similar roster/ focus/ toons/ res distribution/ play style....and you guys on the other focus vs your piers.





    Nobody ever told you to fluff your roster..... Period.

    Those toons and nodes to contact left them are there for when it is time to focus on collecting that team.... Nothing more nothing less.....

    And no one told you how to at your game either...still answer me why you feel you should be matched vs people who are no challenge to you in favor of someone else who is. Answer why you shouldn't have to face the kind of matches I have. Because you have different play style..guess what I do too.

    Again, I face many challenging matchups.... You would be surprised how many players focus on one team at a time and build them up.....

    So, to answer your question, because my roster was carefully built towards this type of gameplay I deserve to reap the rewards for my effort, patience and focus.....

    What makes you feel you should be able to build a fluffy roster and still be competitive?...

    [...]

    Before GA there was no "Right or Wrong Way" to build a roster. Now with GA, suddenly many of us have been doing it "Wrong" this whole time and we've never been warned or encouraged. That's not right. No matter who you are, what choices you've made, THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

    There still is no 'right or wrong way' to build your roster. However, how you choose to build your roster influences your chances for success in the different game modes. That's part of the game.

    If there's no wrong way, this thread wouldn't exist.

    There are different ways, yes, and they give you different chances of winning a GA, yes. There's no right or wrong way.

    Okay fine.

    Up until GA there was no BEST way to have a roster. But since GA dropped, it has become clear what the BEST way to have your roster is. Those of us who developed our rosters any way other than this new BEST way is now forced to suffer the consequences of our choices, which were at the time neither good or bad choices.

    That ain't right.

    Better?

    GA didn't introduce anything new, which wasn't already introduced a year earlier with TW, in regard to what would make a strong roster or a weak roster. Fluff GP has the exact same effect on match-making in TW as it does in GA. Many players simply didn't realize how their fluff GP potentially hurt their guild until GA hit.

    Players, who chose to fluff up their roster GP now have a choice to make:
    To continue or to stop fluffing up their roster.

    GA is absolutely brand new. In TW you have 50 people with a mixture of amped TB and post TW release focus.

    And so does your openents 50 teams.

    GA you are one or the other

    Persepctive will getnyou every time.

    So the choice is be penalised for joining pre TW, or start a new account in orser to compete. If thats fair then ita obvious when you joined.

    Yes, GA is brand new, but it didn't bring anything new with regards to fluff and matchmaking. The only difference between GA and TW is, that in TW your own personal fluff is only a drop in the 50 player ocean. However, the effect on matchmaking is the same - disregarden how old your account is.
    Wrong.

    In TW any toon below 6k GP is excluded, allowing you to start powering up toons without having them count against you and decide when to push them over that line and have them included.

    In TW there are many more rear zones which can advantageously be filled with weaker squads.

    In TW, taking more than one attack to defeat an enemy squad isn't an almost certain defeat for your side.
  • Waqui
    6054 posts Member
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    There are always gonna be differences in the GA matchups, we all agree on that. No matter which metric they use whether straight GP, number of zetas, number of G12, number of legendaies, Etc there will always be some who will win and some who will lose.

    This new (probably soon to be abandoned GA) is a good example. I have reached the final of every GA so far. Won some and lost some. This time round in my group 3 of the 8 have good Revan squads and if they put them on defence (which I would) it will be very tough indeed to get through them. Pretty much means I won't be able to clear and thus will probably lose that round.

    Bummer? Aye but it doesn't discourage me or make me particularly salty, just makes me more determined that next time Revan comes around I will be ready for him and will get my own. Then I will have a counter for him and I will be more competitive in this and other game modes. And that's kinda the point.

    GA, probably more than any other area of the game, shows places where your roster needs improving. It should make you sit down and look at what you need to work on. Regardless of how much fluff you might have you only need X teams for your bracket and that means a total of X toons for those teams. Plan out those teams, plan out those toons and start working. The faster you do that, the faster you will see results.

    Some people's rosters will always be stronger due to many factors, spending money in game, top rank guilds, very focused player, etc. But it is within your grasp to make your roster better, if you choose to.

    If not, then maybe accepting that GA may not be the game mode for you, is your way forward

    As with so many things in this game, YMMV

    What do you not understand ...all this prior GA..and a huge chunk post TB pre TW..read the game philosophy...posted multiple times a few pages back. If those so called fluff toons weren't meant to be used why are they selling shards or have nodes to collect them. You guys are playing hop scotch with the issue...which remains....GA is in no way fair...

    Will someone any one of you please share why you feel must be given matches you can easily win vs earning the rewards you receive to continue to be matched against players who can not beat you.

    Why is GA I only for you..how about being matched with only players of your similar focus instead..and all players to be matched the same..similar roster/ focus/ toons/ res distribution/ play style....and you guys on the other focus vs your piers.





    Nobody ever told you to fluff your roster..... Period.

    Those toons and nodes to contact left them are there for when it is time to focus on collecting that team.... Nothing more nothing less.....

    And no one told you how to at your game either...still answer me why you feel you should be matched vs people who are no challenge to you in favor of someone else who is. Answer why you shouldn't have to face the kind of matches I have. Because you have different play style..guess what I do too.

    Again, I face many challenging matchups.... You would be surprised how many players focus on one team at a time and build them up.....

    So, to answer your question, because my roster was carefully built towards this type of gameplay I deserve to reap the rewards for my effort, patience and focus.....

    What makes you feel you should be able to build a fluffy roster and still be competitive?...

    [...]

    Before GA there was no "Right or Wrong Way" to build a roster. Now with GA, suddenly many of us have been doing it "Wrong" this whole time and we've never been warned or encouraged. That's not right. No matter who you are, what choices you've made, THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

    There still is no 'right or wrong way' to build your roster. However, how you choose to build your roster influences your chances for success in the different game modes. That's part of the game.

    If there's no wrong way, this thread wouldn't exist.

    There are different ways, yes, and they give you different chances of winning a GA, yes. There's no right or wrong way.

    Okay fine.

    Up until GA there was no BEST way to have a roster. But since GA dropped, it has become clear what the BEST way to have your roster is. Those of us who developed our rosters any way other than this new BEST way is now forced to suffer the consequences of our choices, which were at the time neither good or bad choices.

    That ain't right.

    Better?

    GA didn't introduce anything new, which wasn't already introduced a year earlier with TW, in regard to what would make a strong roster or a weak roster. Fluff GP has the exact same effect on match-making in TW as it does in GA. Many players simply didn't realize how their fluff GP potentially hurt their guild until GA hit.

    Players, who chose to fluff up their roster GP now have a choice to make:
    To continue or to stop fluffing up their roster.

    GA is absolutely brand new. In TW you have 50 people with a mixture of amped TB and post TW release focus.

    And so does your openents 50 teams.

    GA you are one or the other

    Persepctive will getnyou every time.

    So the choice is be penalised for joining pre TW, or start a new account in orser to compete. If thats fair then ita obvious when you joined.

    Yes, GA is brand new, but it didn't bring anything new with regards to fluff and matchmaking. The only difference between GA and TW is, that in TW your own personal fluff is only a drop in the 50 player ocean. However, the effect on matchmaking is the same - disregarden how old your account is.
    Wrong.

    In TW any toon below 6k GP is excluded, allowing you to start powering up toons without having them count against you and decide when to push them over that line and have them included.

    We've been through this before. My lvl 53 g7 magmatrooper is above 6k GP - and it's fluff. My 4k GP g1 / lvl 1 Poggle and 5k GP HRSo are not fluff. It's just a matter of how you define fluff.

    Fluff has the same effect on matchmaking in both TW and GA. GA brought nothing nothing new to the table in that regard.
    In TW there are many more rear zones which can advantageously be filled with weaker squads.

    In GA a viable strategy is to fill all defensive zones with your weakest characters - apart from placing a strong fleet - to save all your mediocre and strong characters for offense. Scroll back to february 24th through february 26th for the explanation and proof that it works in some scenarios.
    In TW, taking more than one attack to defeat an enemy squad isn't an almost certain defeat for your side.

    It could be for my main account's guild. We have had some close battles lately and work on improving our performance.

  • Gannon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    There are always gonna be differences in the GA matchups, we all agree on that. No matter which metric they use whether straight GP, number of zetas, number of G12, number of legendaies, Etc there will always be some who will win and some who will lose.

    This new (probably soon to be abandoned GA) is a good example. I have reached the final of every GA so far. Won some and lost some. This time round in my group 3 of the 8 have good Revan squads and if they put them on defence (which I would) it will be very tough indeed to get through them. Pretty much means I won't be able to clear and thus will probably lose that round.

    Bummer? Aye but it doesn't discourage me or make me particularly salty, just makes me more determined that next time Revan comes around I will be ready for him and will get my own. Then I will have a counter for him and I will be more competitive in this and other game modes. And that's kinda the point.

    GA, probably more than any other area of the game, shows places where your roster needs improving. It should make you sit down and look at what you need to work on. Regardless of how much fluff you might have you only need X teams for your bracket and that means a total of X toons for those teams. Plan out those teams, plan out those toons and start working. The faster you do that, the faster you will see results.

    Some people's rosters will always be stronger due to many factors, spending money in game, top rank guilds, very focused player, etc. But it is within your grasp to make your roster better, if you choose to.

    If not, then maybe accepting that GA may not be the game mode for you, is your way forward

    As with so many things in this game, YMMV

    What do you not understand ...all this prior GA..and a huge chunk post TB pre TW..read the game philosophy...posted multiple times a few pages back. If those so called fluff toons weren't meant to be used why are they selling shards or have nodes to collect them. You guys are playing hop scotch with the issue...which remains....GA is in no way fair...

    Will someone any one of you please share why you feel must be given matches you can easily win vs earning the rewards you receive to continue to be matched against players who can not beat you.

    Why is GA I only for you..how about being matched with only players of your similar focus instead..and all players to be matched the same..similar roster/ focus/ toons/ res distribution/ play style....and you guys on the other focus vs your piers.





    Nobody ever told you to fluff your roster..... Period.

    Those toons and nodes to contact left them are there for when it is time to focus on collecting that team.... Nothing more nothing less.....

    And no one told you how to at your game either...still answer me why you feel you should be matched vs people who are no challenge to you in favor of someone else who is. Answer why you shouldn't have to face the kind of matches I have. Because you have different play style..guess what I do too.

    Again, I face many challenging matchups.... You would be surprised how many players focus on one team at a time and build them up.....

    So, to answer your question, because my roster was carefully built towards this type of gameplay I deserve to reap the rewards for my effort, patience and focus.....

    What makes you feel you should be able to build a fluffy roster and still be competitive?...

    [...]

    Before GA there was no "Right or Wrong Way" to build a roster. Now with GA, suddenly many of us have been doing it "Wrong" this whole time and we've never been warned or encouraged. That's not right. No matter who you are, what choices you've made, THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

    There still is no 'right or wrong way' to build your roster. However, how you choose to build your roster influences your chances for success in the different game modes. That's part of the game.

    If there's no wrong way, this thread wouldn't exist.

    There are different ways, yes, and they give you different chances of winning a GA, yes. There's no right or wrong way.

    Okay fine.

    Up until GA there was no BEST way to have a roster. But since GA dropped, it has become clear what the BEST way to have your roster is. Those of us who developed our rosters any way other than this new BEST way is now forced to suffer the consequences of our choices, which were at the time neither good or bad choices.

    That ain't right.

    Better?

    GA didn't introduce anything new, which wasn't already introduced a year earlier with TW, in regard to what would make a strong roster or a weak roster. Fluff GP has the exact same effect on match-making in TW as it does in GA. Many players simply didn't realize how their fluff GP potentially hurt their guild until GA hit.

    Players, who chose to fluff up their roster GP now have a choice to make:
    To continue or to stop fluffing up their roster.

    GA is absolutely brand new. In TW you have 50 people with a mixture of amped TB and post TW release focus.

    And so does your openents 50 teams.

    GA you are one or the other

    Persepctive will getnyou every time.

    So the choice is be penalised for joining pre TW, or start a new account in orser to compete. If thats fair then ita obvious when you joined.

    You can turn a fluffy roster around in like 3 months. Just have to want to do it. Could even be less, as a lot of those may already be half done already. There's zero reason to start a new account.

    So many in my guild have every toon unlocked and half done, but they turned it around really quickly when GA was announced. You only need so many teams, so just focus on completing that many.

    If "so many" in your guild turnes it around after fluff then surely you can ge a screen shot?

    You cant unlevel a toon or remove the stars. And since GA has come out how many tok s have been added that werent required for one of the revans?
    Basically what im saying is they werent fluffed to any real extent. The folksnyoure referring to didnt habe tonuse Jedi consular to get GMY.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    There are always gonna be differences in the GA matchups, we all agree on that. No matter which metric they use whether straight GP, number of zetas, number of G12, number of legendaies, Etc there will always be some who will win and some who will lose.

    This new (probably soon to be abandoned GA) is a good example. I have reached the final of every GA so far. Won some and lost some. This time round in my group 3 of the 8 have good Revan squads and if they put them on defence (which I would) it will be very tough indeed to get through them. Pretty much means I won't be able to clear and thus will probably lose that round.

    Bummer? Aye but it doesn't discourage me or make me particularly salty, just makes me more determined that next time Revan comes around I will be ready for him and will get my own. Then I will have a counter for him and I will be more competitive in this and other game modes. And that's kinda the point.

    GA, probably more than any other area of the game, shows places where your roster needs improving. It should make you sit down and look at what you need to work on. Regardless of how much fluff you might have you only need X teams for your bracket and that means a total of X toons for those teams. Plan out those teams, plan out those toons and start working. The faster you do that, the faster you will see results.

    Some people's rosters will always be stronger due to many factors, spending money in game, top rank guilds, very focused player, etc. But it is within your grasp to make your roster better, if you choose to.

    If not, then maybe accepting that GA may not be the game mode for you, is your way forward

    As with so many things in this game, YMMV

    What do you not understand ...all this prior GA..and a huge chunk post TB pre TW..read the game philosophy...posted multiple times a few pages back. If those so called fluff toons weren't meant to be used why are they selling shards or have nodes to collect them. You guys are playing hop scotch with the issue...which remains....GA is in no way fair...

    Will someone any one of you please share why you feel must be given matches you can easily win vs earning the rewards you receive to continue to be matched against players who can not beat you.

    Why is GA I only for you..how about being matched with only players of your similar focus instead..and all players to be matched the same..similar roster/ focus/ toons/ res distribution/ play style....and you guys on the other focus vs your piers.





    Nobody ever told you to fluff your roster..... Period.

    Those toons and nodes to contact left them are there for when it is time to focus on collecting that team.... Nothing more nothing less.....

    And no one told you how to at your game either...still answer me why you feel you should be matched vs people who are no challenge to you in favor of someone else who is. Answer why you shouldn't have to face the kind of matches I have. Because you have different play style..guess what I do too.

    Again, I face many challenging matchups.... You would be surprised how many players focus on one team at a time and build them up.....

    So, to answer your question, because my roster was carefully built towards this type of gameplay I deserve to reap the rewards for my effort, patience and focus.....

    What makes you feel you should be able to build a fluffy roster and still be competitive?...

    [...]

    Before GA there was no "Right or Wrong Way" to build a roster. Now with GA, suddenly many of us have been doing it "Wrong" this whole time and we've never been warned or encouraged. That's not right. No matter who you are, what choices you've made, THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

    There still is no 'right or wrong way' to build your roster. However, how you choose to build your roster influences your chances for success in the different game modes. That's part of the game.

    If there's no wrong way, this thread wouldn't exist.

    There are different ways, yes, and they give you different chances of winning a GA, yes. There's no right or wrong way.

    Okay fine.

    Up until GA there was no BEST way to have a roster. But since GA dropped, it has become clear what the BEST way to have your roster is. Those of us who developed our rosters any way other than this new BEST way is now forced to suffer the consequences of our choices, which were at the time neither good or bad choices.

    That ain't right.

    Better?

    GA didn't introduce anything new, which wasn't already introduced a year earlier with TW, in regard to what would make a strong roster or a weak roster. Fluff GP has the exact same effect on match-making in TW as it does in GA. Many players simply didn't realize how their fluff GP potentially hurt their guild until GA hit.

    Players, who chose to fluff up their roster GP now have a choice to make:
    To continue or to stop fluffing up their roster.

    GA is absolutely brand new. In TW you have 50 people with a mixture of amped TB and post TW release focus.

    And so does your openents 50 teams.

    GA you are one or the other

    Persepctive will getnyou every time.

    So the choice is be penalised for joining pre TW, or start a new account in orser to compete. If thats fair then ita obvious when you joined.

    Yes, GA is brand new, but it didn't bring anything new with regards to fluff and matchmaking. The only difference between GA and TW is, that in TW your own personal fluff is only a drop in the 50 player ocean. However, the effect on matchmaking is the same - disregarden how old your account is.

    Youre telling me a mixture of flufded account and focused accounts (TW) is the same as one or the other ONLY, in GA?

    If thats your stance then you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Otherwise i dont know the point youre making. 1 account is not the same as multiple accounts.

    As far as how old the account is, deffinitely matters. I didnt have the luxury of knowing Jedi consular wasnt going to be needed and could be lefft at 3 star. Because I needed 5 Jedi to get GMY. Didnt have the luxury of jolee and bastilla being around to use instead.

    Perhaps you can ask EA (through game) to give you a time stamp of when you startwled playing. Ill do the same. I bet I know the time frame though

  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    There are always gonna be differences in the GA matchups, we all agree on that. No matter which metric they use whether straight GP, number of zetas, number of G12, number of legendaies, Etc there will always be some who will win and some who will lose.

    This new (probably soon to be abandoned GA) is a good example. I have reached the final of every GA so far. Won some and lost some. This time round in my group 3 of the 8 have good Revan squads and if they put them on defence (which I would) it will be very tough indeed to get through them. Pretty much means I won't be able to clear and thus will probably lose that round.

    Bummer? Aye but it doesn't discourage me or make me particularly salty, just makes me more determined that next time Revan comes around I will be ready for him and will get my own. Then I will have a counter for him and I will be more competitive in this and other game modes. And that's kinda the point.

    GA, probably more than any other area of the game, shows places where your roster needs improving. It should make you sit down and look at what you need to work on. Regardless of how much fluff you might have you only need X teams for your bracket and that means a total of X toons for those teams. Plan out those teams, plan out those toons and start working. The faster you do that, the faster you will see results.

    Some people's rosters will always be stronger due to many factors, spending money in game, top rank guilds, very focused player, etc. But it is within your grasp to make your roster better, if you choose to.

    If not, then maybe accepting that GA may not be the game mode for you, is your way forward

    As with so many things in this game, YMMV

    What do you not understand ...all this prior GA..and a huge chunk post TB pre TW..read the game philosophy...posted multiple times a few pages back. If those so called fluff toons weren't meant to be used why are they selling shards or have nodes to collect them. You guys are playing hop scotch with the issue...which remains....GA is in no way fair...

    Will someone any one of you please share why you feel must be given matches you can easily win vs earning the rewards you receive to continue to be matched against players who can not beat you.

    Why is GA I only for you..how about being matched with only players of your similar focus instead..and all players to be matched the same..similar roster/ focus/ toons/ res distribution/ play style....and you guys on the other focus vs your piers.





    Nobody ever told you to fluff your roster..... Period.

    Those toons and nodes to contact left them are there for when it is time to focus on collecting that team.... Nothing more nothing less.....

    And no one told you how to at your game either...still answer me why you feel you should be matched vs people who are no challenge to you in favor of someone else who is. Answer why you shouldn't have to face the kind of matches I have. Because you have different play style..guess what I do too.

    Again, I face many challenging matchups.... You would be surprised how many players focus on one team at a time and build them up.....

    So, to answer your question, because my roster was carefully built towards this type of gameplay I deserve to reap the rewards for my effort, patience and focus.....

    What makes you feel you should be able to build a fluffy roster and still be competitive?...

    [...]

    Before GA there was no "Right or Wrong Way" to build a roster. Now with GA, suddenly many of us have been doing it "Wrong" this whole time and we've never been warned or encouraged. That's not right. No matter who you are, what choices you've made, THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

    There still is no 'right or wrong way' to build your roster. However, how you choose to build your roster influences your chances for success in the different game modes. That's part of the game.

    If there's no wrong way, this thread wouldn't exist.

    There are different ways, yes, and they give you different chances of winning a GA, yes. There's no right or wrong way.

    Okay fine.

    Up until GA there was no BEST way to have a roster. But since GA dropped, it has become clear what the BEST way to have your roster is. Those of us who developed our rosters any way other than this new BEST way is now forced to suffer the consequences of our choices, which were at the time neither good or bad choices.

    That ain't right.

    Better?

    GA didn't introduce anything new, which wasn't already introduced a year earlier with TW, in regard to what would make a strong roster or a weak roster. Fluff GP has the exact same effect on match-making in TW as it does in GA. Many players simply didn't realize how their fluff GP potentially hurt their guild until GA hit.

    Players, who chose to fluff up their roster GP now have a choice to make:
    To continue or to stop fluffing up their roster.

    GA is absolutely brand new. In TW you have 50 people with a mixture of amped TB and post TW release focus.

    And so does your openents 50 teams.

    GA you are one or the other

    Persepctive will getnyou every time.

    So the choice is be penalised for joining pre TW, or start a new account in orser to compete. If thats fair then ita obvious when you joined.

    You can turn a fluffy roster around in like 3 months. Just have to want to do it. Could even be less, as a lot of those may already be half done already. There's zero reason to start a new account.

    So many in my guild have every toon unlocked and half done, but they turned it around really quickly when GA was announced. You only need so many teams, so just focus on completing that many.

    If "so many" in your guild turnes it around after fluff then surely you can ge a screen shot?

    You cant unlevel a toon or remove the stars. And since GA has come out how many tok s have been added that werent required for one of the revans?
    Basically what im saying is they werent fluffed to any real extent. The folksnyoure referring to didnt habe tonuse Jedi consular to get GMY.

    My roster was full of g7 lvl 50 toons when war came out. Every toon I owned was there or above. Since GA came around, I have been actively upgrading toons that could fit into more counter or potential defense teams to g11, where they can at least compete sufficiently. I've won every GA.

    I still use my g8 clone chewy, g11 counselor, etc. Honestly almost every toon can be used somewhere, but I only need 12 teams to compete in GA now. There are many I never get to use.
  • Gannon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    There are always gonna be differences in the GA matchups, we all agree on that. No matter which metric they use whether straight GP, number of zetas, number of G12, number of legendaies, Etc there will always be some who will win and some who will lose.

    This new (probably soon to be abandoned GA) is a good example. I have reached the final of every GA so far. Won some and lost some. This time round in my group 3 of the 8 have good Revan squads and if they put them on defence (which I would) it will be very tough indeed to get through them. Pretty much means I won't be able to clear and thus will probably lose that round.

    Bummer? Aye but it doesn't discourage me or make me particularly salty, just makes me more determined that next time Revan comes around I will be ready for him and will get my own. Then I will have a counter for him and I will be more competitive in this and other game modes. And that's kinda the point.

    GA, probably more than any other area of the game, shows places where your roster needs improving. It should make you sit down and look at what you need to work on. Regardless of how much fluff you might have you only need X teams for your bracket and that means a total of X toons for those teams. Plan out those teams, plan out those toons and start working. The faster you do that, the faster you will see results.

    Some people's rosters will always be stronger due to many factors, spending money in game, top rank guilds, very focused player, etc. But it is within your grasp to make your roster better, if you choose to.

    If not, then maybe accepting that GA may not be the game mode for you, is your way forward

    As with so many things in this game, YMMV

    What do you not understand ...all this prior GA..and a huge chunk post TB pre TW..read the game philosophy...posted multiple times a few pages back. If those so called fluff toons weren't meant to be used why are they selling shards or have nodes to collect them. You guys are playing hop scotch with the issue...which remains....GA is in no way fair...

    Will someone any one of you please share why you feel must be given matches you can easily win vs earning the rewards you receive to continue to be matched against players who can not beat you.

    Why is GA I only for you..how about being matched with only players of your similar focus instead..and all players to be matched the same..similar roster/ focus/ toons/ res distribution/ play style....and you guys on the other focus vs your piers.





    Nobody ever told you to fluff your roster..... Period.

    Those toons and nodes to contact left them are there for when it is time to focus on collecting that team.... Nothing more nothing less.....

    And no one told you how to at your game either...still answer me why you feel you should be matched vs people who are no challenge to you in favor of someone else who is. Answer why you shouldn't have to face the kind of matches I have. Because you have different play style..guess what I do too.

    Again, I face many challenging matchups.... You would be surprised how many players focus on one team at a time and build them up.....

    So, to answer your question, because my roster was carefully built towards this type of gameplay I deserve to reap the rewards for my effort, patience and focus.....

    What makes you feel you should be able to build a fluffy roster and still be competitive?...

    [...]

    Before GA there was no "Right or Wrong Way" to build a roster. Now with GA, suddenly many of us have been doing it "Wrong" this whole time and we've never been warned or encouraged. That's not right. No matter who you are, what choices you've made, THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

    There still is no 'right or wrong way' to build your roster. However, how you choose to build your roster influences your chances for success in the different game modes. That's part of the game.

    If there's no wrong way, this thread wouldn't exist.

    There are different ways, yes, and they give you different chances of winning a GA, yes. There's no right or wrong way.

    Okay fine.

    Up until GA there was no BEST way to have a roster. But since GA dropped, it has become clear what the BEST way to have your roster is. Those of us who developed our rosters any way other than this new BEST way is now forced to suffer the consequences of our choices, which were at the time neither good or bad choices.

    That ain't right.

    Better?

    GA didn't introduce anything new, which wasn't already introduced a year earlier with TW, in regard to what would make a strong roster or a weak roster. Fluff GP has the exact same effect on match-making in TW as it does in GA. Many players simply didn't realize how their fluff GP potentially hurt their guild until GA hit.

    Players, who chose to fluff up their roster GP now have a choice to make:
    To continue or to stop fluffing up their roster.

    GA is absolutely brand new. In TW you have 50 people with a mixture of amped TB and post TW release focus.

    And so does your openents 50 teams.

    GA you are one or the other

    Persepctive will getnyou every time.

    So the choice is be penalised for joining pre TW, or start a new account in orser to compete. If thats fair then ita obvious when you joined.

    You can turn a fluffy roster around in like 3 months. Just have to want to do it. Could even be less, as a lot of those may already be half done already. There's zero reason to start a new account.

    So many in my guild have every toon unlocked and half done, but they turned it around really quickly when GA was announced. You only need so many teams, so just focus on completing that many.

    If "so many" in your guild turnes it around after fluff then surely you can ge a screen shot?

    You cant unlevel a toon or remove the stars. And since GA has come out how many tok s have been added that werent required for one of the revans?
    Basically what im saying is they werent fluffed to any real extent. The folksnyoure referring to didnt habe tonuse Jedi consular to get GMY.

    Depending on your GP bracket you will need x teams, which will mean y toons. Work out the teams you want to Have, then work which toons you want to have on those teams and start farming

    The sooner people start down this path, the sooner they will see results.

    Once you have those toons and teams in place, the rest of the roster can almost be regarded as irrelevant.

    Just depends if people want to spend the time and effort to improve really
  • IDinDooNufin, of course you can unfluff your roster, and it doesn’t have to be with ‘weak-considered’ toons either.
    I am working on my ‘fluffy’ 8k Nihilus at the mo. Once I bring him to G12, maxxed and modded, he will be unfluffed.
    You just have to change the way you look at it
  • Waqui
    6054 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    There are always gonna be differences in the GA matchups, we all agree on that. No matter which metric they use whether straight GP, number of zetas, number of G12, number of legendaies, Etc there will always be some who will win and some who will lose.

    This new (probably soon to be abandoned GA) is a good example. I have reached the final of every GA so far. Won some and lost some. This time round in my group 3 of the 8 have good Revan squads and if they put them on defence (which I would) it will be very tough indeed to get through them. Pretty much means I won't be able to clear and thus will probably lose that round.

    Bummer? Aye but it doesn't discourage me or make me particularly salty, just makes me more determined that next time Revan comes around I will be ready for him and will get my own. Then I will have a counter for him and I will be more competitive in this and other game modes. And that's kinda the point.

    GA, probably more than any other area of the game, shows places where your roster needs improving. It should make you sit down and look at what you need to work on. Regardless of how much fluff you might have you only need X teams for your bracket and that means a total of X toons for those teams. Plan out those teams, plan out those toons and start working. The faster you do that, the faster you will see results.

    Some people's rosters will always be stronger due to many factors, spending money in game, top rank guilds, very focused player, etc. But it is within your grasp to make your roster better, if you choose to.

    If not, then maybe accepting that GA may not be the game mode for you, is your way forward

    As with so many things in this game, YMMV

    What do you not understand ...all this prior GA..and a huge chunk post TB pre TW..read the game philosophy...posted multiple times a few pages back. If those so called fluff toons weren't meant to be used why are they selling shards or have nodes to collect them. You guys are playing hop scotch with the issue...which remains....GA is in no way fair...

    Will someone any one of you please share why you feel must be given matches you can easily win vs earning the rewards you receive to continue to be matched against players who can not beat you.

    Why is GA I only for you..how about being matched with only players of your similar focus instead..and all players to be matched the same..similar roster/ focus/ toons/ res distribution/ play style....and you guys on the other focus vs your piers.





    Nobody ever told you to fluff your roster..... Period.

    Those toons and nodes to contact left them are there for when it is time to focus on collecting that team.... Nothing more nothing less.....

    And no one told you how to at your game either...still answer me why you feel you should be matched vs people who are no challenge to you in favor of someone else who is. Answer why you shouldn't have to face the kind of matches I have. Because you have different play style..guess what I do too.

    Again, I face many challenging matchups.... You would be surprised how many players focus on one team at a time and build them up.....

    So, to answer your question, because my roster was carefully built towards this type of gameplay I deserve to reap the rewards for my effort, patience and focus.....

    What makes you feel you should be able to build a fluffy roster and still be competitive?...

    [...]

    Before GA there was no "Right or Wrong Way" to build a roster. Now with GA, suddenly many of us have been doing it "Wrong" this whole time and we've never been warned or encouraged. That's not right. No matter who you are, what choices you've made, THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

    There still is no 'right or wrong way' to build your roster. However, how you choose to build your roster influences your chances for success in the different game modes. That's part of the game.

    If there's no wrong way, this thread wouldn't exist.

    There are different ways, yes, and they give you different chances of winning a GA, yes. There's no right or wrong way.

    Okay fine.

    Up until GA there was no BEST way to have a roster. But since GA dropped, it has become clear what the BEST way to have your roster is. Those of us who developed our rosters any way other than this new BEST way is now forced to suffer the consequences of our choices, which were at the time neither good or bad choices.

    That ain't right.

    Better?

    GA didn't introduce anything new, which wasn't already introduced a year earlier with TW, in regard to what would make a strong roster or a weak roster. Fluff GP has the exact same effect on match-making in TW as it does in GA. Many players simply didn't realize how their fluff GP potentially hurt their guild until GA hit.

    Players, who chose to fluff up their roster GP now have a choice to make:
    To continue or to stop fluffing up their roster.

    GA is absolutely brand new. In TW you have 50 people with a mixture of amped TB and post TW release focus.

    And so does your openents 50 teams.

    GA you are one or the other

    Persepctive will getnyou every time.

    So the choice is be penalised for joining pre TW, or start a new account in orser to compete. If thats fair then ita obvious when you joined.

    Yes, GA is brand new, but it didn't bring anything new with regards to fluff and matchmaking. The only difference between GA and TW is, that in TW your own personal fluff is only a drop in the 50 player ocean. However, the effect on matchmaking is the same - disregarden how old your account is.

    Youre telling me a mixture of flufded account and focused accounts (TW) is the same as one or the other ONLY, in GA?

    I'm telling you that your personal fluff may get your guild matched to a guild with higher GP than if you didn't have that fluff, just like it will match yourself with players with higher GP in GA.
    As far as how old the account is, deffinitely matters. I didnt have the luxury of knowing Jedi consular wasnt going to be needed and could be lefft at 3 star. Because I needed 5 Jedi to get GMY. Didnt have the luxury of jolee and bastilla being around to use instead.

    Did you use your JC to unlock GMY? Did you use your JC in tier 6 sith raids early on? Did you use your JC early on in TB under GK lead with a mix of healers and attackers (and Aaylaa for stuns)? Did you use his ship for early fleet arena and to beat the challenges that required lightside ships? I used mine, and don't consider my 7* g10/g11 JC to be fluff.
    Perhaps you can ask EA (through game) to give you a time stamp of when you startwled playing. Ill do the same. I bet I know the time frame though

    I don't see how that is relevant. How about checking the date you downloaded the app in Google Play instead? Much easier.

  • Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    TRanger wrote: »
    There are always gonna be differences in the GA matchups, we all agree on that. No matter which metric they use whether straight GP, number of zetas, number of G12, number of legendaies, Etc there will always be some who will win and some who will lose.

    This new (probably soon to be abandoned GA) is a good example. I have reached the final of every GA so far. Won some and lost some. This time round in my group 3 of the 8 have good Revan squads and if they put them on defence (which I would) it will be very tough indeed to get through them. Pretty much means I won't be able to clear and thus will probably lose that round.

    Bummer? Aye but it doesn't discourage me or make me particularly salty, just makes me more determined that next time Revan comes around I will be ready for him and will get my own. Then I will have a counter for him and I will be more competitive in this and other game modes. And that's kinda the point.

    GA, probably more than any other area of the game, shows places where your roster needs improving. It should make you sit down and look at what you need to work on. Regardless of how much fluff you might have you only need X teams for your bracket and that means a total of X toons for those teams. Plan out those teams, plan out those toons and start working. The faster you do that, the faster you will see results.

    Some people's rosters will always be stronger due to many factors, spending money in game, top rank guilds, very focused player, etc. But it is within your grasp to make your roster better, if you choose to.

    If not, then maybe accepting that GA may not be the game mode for you, is your way forward

    As with so many things in this game, YMMV

    What do you not understand ...all this prior GA..and a huge chunk post TB pre TW..read the game philosophy...posted multiple times a few pages back. If those so called fluff toons weren't meant to be used why are they selling shards or have nodes to collect them. You guys are playing hop scotch with the issue...which remains....GA is in no way fair...

    Will someone any one of you please share why you feel must be given matches you can easily win vs earning the rewards you receive to continue to be matched against players who can not beat you.

    Why is GA I only for you..how about being matched with only players of your similar focus instead..and all players to be matched the same..similar roster/ focus/ toons/ res distribution/ play style....and you guys on the other focus vs your piers.





    Nobody ever told you to fluff your roster..... Period.

    Those toons and nodes to contact left them are there for when it is time to focus on collecting that team.... Nothing more nothing less.....

    And no one told you how to at your game either...still answer me why you feel you should be matched vs people who are no challenge to you in favor of someone else who is. Answer why you shouldn't have to face the kind of matches I have. Because you have different play style..guess what I do too.

    Again, I face many challenging matchups.... You would be surprised how many players focus on one team at a time and build them up.....

    So, to answer your question, because my roster was carefully built towards this type of gameplay I deserve to reap the rewards for my effort, patience and focus.....

    What makes you feel you should be able to build a fluffy roster and still be competitive?...

    [...]

    Before GA there was no "Right or Wrong Way" to build a roster. Now with GA, suddenly many of us have been doing it "Wrong" this whole time and we've never been warned or encouraged. That's not right. No matter who you are, what choices you've made, THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

    There still is no 'right or wrong way' to build your roster. However, how you choose to build your roster influences your chances for success in the different game modes. That's part of the game.

    If there's no wrong way, this thread wouldn't exist.

    There are different ways, yes, and they give you different chances of winning a GA, yes. There's no right or wrong way.

    Okay fine.

    Up until GA there was no BEST way to have a roster. But since GA dropped, it has become clear what the BEST way to have your roster is. Those of us who developed our rosters any way other than this new BEST way is now forced to suffer the consequences of our choices, which were at the time neither good or bad choices.

    That ain't right.

    Better?

    GA didn't introduce anything new, which wasn't already introduced a year earlier with TW, in regard to what would make a strong roster or a weak roster. Fluff GP has the exact same effect on match-making in TW as it does in GA. Many players simply didn't realize how their fluff GP potentially hurt their guild until GA hit.

    Players, who chose to fluff up their roster GP now have a choice to make:
    To continue or to stop fluffing up their roster.

    GA is absolutely brand new. In TW you have 50 people with a mixture of amped TB and post TW release focus.

    And so does your openents 50 teams.

    GA you are one or the other

    Persepctive will getnyou every time.

    So the choice is be penalised for joining pre TW, or start a new account in orser to compete. If thats fair then ita obvious when you joined.

    Yes, GA is brand new, but it didn't bring anything new with regards to fluff and matchmaking. The only difference between GA and TW is, that in TW your own personal fluff is only a drop in the 50 player ocean. However, the effect on matchmaking is the same - disregarden how old your account is.

    Youre telling me a mixture of flufded account and focused accounts (TW) is the same as one or the other ONLY, in GA?

    I'm telling you that your personal fluff may get your guild matched to a guild with higher GP than if you didn't have that fluff, just like it will match yourself with players with higher GP in GA.
    As far as how old the account is, deffinitely matters. I didnt have the luxury of knowing Jedi consular wasnt going to be needed and could be lefft at 3 star. Because I needed 5 Jedi to get GMY. Didnt have the luxury of jolee and bastilla being around to use instead.

    Did you use your JC to unlock GMY? Did you use your JC in tier 6 sith raids early on? Did you use your JC early on in TB under GK lead with a mix of healers and attackers (and Aaylaa for stuns)? Did you use his ship for early fleet arena and to beat the challenges that required lightside ships? I used mine, and don't consider my 7* g10/g11 JC to be fluff.
    Perhaps you can ask EA (through game) to give you a time stamp of when you startwled playing. Ill do the same. I bet I know the time frame though

    I don't see how that is relevant. How about checking the date you downloaded the app in Google Play instead? Much easier.

    How well does that JC work in TW? Or GA?
    JC 10 or 11 gear is most assuredly fluff.

    Yes i used mine to get GMY. Before gear 12 existed.

    Been on since before 80 existed.

    Then post that date.
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