Raid reward equalization

Prev1
evoluza
2619 posts Member
Is the raid simming update an indicator of CG acknowledging, that the current reward system is bad for guilds?
Do they plan to equalize all the raid rewards across the board?
Any chance they take that rewards system and put it into pvp modes?
If so, then guilds can regain there full strength and haven't to deal with people quitting or changing guild, because of that reward reason!
Any thoughts on that CG (apparently can't quote devs...)?

Replies

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    Personally, I loved the reward equalization when they tried it last year. It Actually drove more participation in our raids. Although, I can see it having an opposite effect on top tier guilds.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    Personally, I loved the reward equalization when they tried it last year. It Actually drove more participation in our raids. Although, I can see it having an opposite effect on top tier guilds.

    But what is the point of improving your raid teams if you get same reward for #50 and #1. Yeah you are in a guild and in a team but if you contribute more to the team you should have more rewards
  • Reward equalization is nice if the rewards are equivalent to a top 10. Otherwise, not so much. Then you just penalize people who try.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    Personally, I loved the reward equalization when they tried it last year. It Actually drove more participation in our raids. Although, I can see it having an opposite effect on top tier guilds.

    But what is the point of improving your raid teams if you get same reward for #50 and #1. Yeah you are in a guild and in a team but if you contribute more to the team you should have more rewards

    Not every guild has HSTR on farm (especially not when it the equalization happened). My guild didn’t have 50 particiapants in raids regardless of difficulty. If equalization meant that we got 10 more members to try and 40 more members to improve then it was a net gain for me as well. I’d rather beat the raids and get something than take twice as long to finish for a slightly better reward.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    Personally, I loved the reward equalization when they tried it last year. It Actually drove more participation in our raids. Although, I can see it having an opposite effect on top tier guilds.

    But what is the point of improving your raid teams if you get same reward for #50 and #1. Yeah you are in a guild and in a team but if you contribute more to the team you should have more rewards

    Not every guild has HSTR on farm (especially not when it the equalization happened). My guild didn’t have 50 particiapants in raids regardless of difficulty. If equalization meant that we got 10 more members to try and 40 more members to improve then it was a net gain for me as well. I’d rather beat the raids and get something than take twice as long to finish for a slightly better reward.

    Trust me. I'm on a leadership team of a 3 HSTR guild alliance. This does not work out like you have planned. You'll find a significant amount of people are willing to accept rewards and do nothing for them. In most cases, top 10-15 do 76+% of the raid. The only incentive the stronger players have to carry the rest is better rewards.

    Bingo. I'd wager this is an accurate description of most guilds. There is a very active top 10/15 and then a less active 35-40. Now maybe a few of the very, very top uber competitive guilds may be a bit different, but they are the exception rather than the rule.
  • evoluza wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    Personally, I loved the reward equalization when they tried it last year. It Actually drove more participation in our raids. Although, I can see it having an opposite effect on top tier guilds.

    But what is the point of improving your raid teams if you get same reward for #50 and #1. Yeah you are in a guild and in a team but if you contribute more to the team you should have more rewards

    Not every guild has HSTR on farm (especially not when it the equalization happened). My guild didn’t have 50 particiapants in raids regardless of difficulty. If equalization meant that we got 10 more members to try and 40 more members to improve then it was a net gain for me as well. I’d rather beat the raids and get something than take twice as long to finish for a slightly better reward.

    Trust me. I'm on a leadership team of a 3 HSTR guild alliance. This does not work out like you have planned. You'll find a significant amount of people are willing to accept rewards and do nothing for them. In most cases, top 10-15 do 76+% of the raid. The only incentive the stronger players have to carry the rest is better rewards.

    Bingo. I'd wager this is an accurate description of most guilds. There is a very active top 10/15 and then a less active 35-40. Now maybe a few of the very, very top uber competitive guilds may be a bit different, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

    Just wait for the struggle recruiting people, when the lower ranks just quit.
    Most activ guilds have at least 30 people that would play the raid. After some raids they just stop, because of the reward structure.

    Sure. 30 people that play a raid when they are needed to play it. Once the raid is old and farm able by a few people, you see others happy with clicking join and collecting rewards for no time spent.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    Personally, I loved the reward equalization when they tried it last year. It Actually drove more participation in our raids. Although, I can see it having an opposite effect on top tier guilds.

    But what is the point of improving your raid teams if you get same reward for #50 and #1. Yeah you are in a guild and in a team but if you contribute more to the team you should have more rewards

    Not every guild has HSTR on farm (especially not when it the equalization happened). My guild didn’t have 50 particiapants in raids regardless of difficulty. If equalization meant that we got 10 more members to try and 40 more members to improve then it was a net gain for me as well. I’d rather beat the raids and get something than take twice as long to finish for a slightly better reward.

    Trust me. I'm on a leadership team of a 3 HSTR guild alliance. This does not work out like you have planned. You'll find a significant amount of people are willing to accept rewards and do nothing for them. In most cases, top 10-15 do 76+% of the raid. The only incentive the stronger players have to carry the rest is better rewards.

    Lol I did say get “10 more members to try.” I didn’t say it got the whole guild to participate, but it did give the whole guild better rewards (of course lower for the top few).

    I did mention how it could have an adverse effect on top tier guilds, but shouldn’t top members want better gear for weaker members of a guild? I would think the incentive for top tier members is that having a better guild means better rewards in other areas of the game.

    I don’t want to stay on this topic too long because it becomes a socialism vs capitalism type debate.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    Outcry was there due to how much they nerfed the rewards as they used the equalization to sneak in a nerf at the same time.

    Equalization needs done, but done correctly.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    Personally, I loved the reward equalization when they tried it last year. It Actually drove more participation in our raids. Although, I can see it having an opposite effect on top tier guilds.

    But what is the point of improving your raid teams if you get same reward for #50 and #1. Yeah you are in a guild and in a team but if you contribute more to the team you should have more rewards

    Not every guild has HSTR on farm (especially not when it the equalization happened). My guild didn’t have 50 particiapants in raids regardless of difficulty. If equalization meant that we got 10 more members to try and 40 more members to improve then it was a net gain for me as well. I’d rather beat the raids and get something than take twice as long to finish for a slightly better reward.

    Trust me. I'm on a leadership team of a 3 HSTR guild alliance. This does not work out like you have planned. You'll find a significant amount of people are willing to accept rewards and do nothing for them. In most cases, top 10-15 do 76+% of the raid. The only incentive the stronger players have to carry the rest is better rewards.

    Lol I did say get “10 more members to try.” I didn’t say it got the whole guild to participate, but it did give the whole guild better rewards (of course lower for the top few).

    I did mention how it could have an adverse effect on top tier guilds, but shouldn’t top members want better gear for weaker members of a guild? I would think the incentive for top tier members is that having a better guild means better rewards in other areas of the game.

    I don’t want to stay on this topic too long because it becomes a socialism vs capitalism type debate.

    It only make sense to equalize rewards if your guild has it on farm, i.e more than half your active players can register a zero and log in one hr later to see hsr gone and done. Otherwise, it disincentivises players with stronger raid attuned rosters.

    What you are suggesting goes against targeted roster development. If i sacrifice arena rankings by focusing on raid teams, i should get better rewards there. Why should my guildmate, who tops arena all day long and does nothing to build his raid teams properly get the same gear as me?
  • It just depends on your guild..timing is an issue for people hitting raids
  • evoluza wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    Personally, I loved the reward equalization when they tried it last year. It Actually drove more participation in our raids. Although, I can see it having an opposite effect on top tier guilds.

    But what is the point of improving your raid teams if you get same reward for #50 and #1. Yeah you are in a guild and in a team but if you contribute more to the team you should have more rewards

    You are one of those...
    You improve teams to beat the raid...
    That's the achievement you get. The rest is just punishing 40 other people that can't place top 10.
    I better mention that only TEN people can place top 10. All 50 can improve, doesn't change the fact that only Ten can get in and claim these fully crafted pieces.

    That is like saying i too unlocked revan why am i not first in squad arena, even if he has better mods i too improved. Some people are just better in games not everyone is same. We are all equal in having a chance to be first not everyone should be. When my guild started doing HStr few of us tryharded p3 because that was only way for us to do it and your idea is that we should get same rewards as a guy who did palp in p2 because it is "fair"? If i contribute more i should get better rewards
  • Drazhar
    784 posts Member
    The reward tier they decided to make "universal" for all guild members is just pitiful. 11+ spot rewards is just a mockery. We simmed a raid minutes ago, the rewards were shameful.
  • Daishi
    718 posts Member
    evoluza wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    Personally, I loved the reward equalization when they tried it last year. It Actually drove more participation in our raids. Although, I can see it having an opposite effect on top tier guilds.

    But what is the point of improving your raid teams if you get same reward for #50 and #1. Yeah you are in a guild and in a team but if you contribute more to the team you should have more rewards

    You are one of those...
    You improve teams to beat the raid...
    That's the achievement you get. The rest is just punishing 40 other people that can't place top 10.
    I better mention that only TEN people can place top 10. All 50 can improve, doesn't change the fact that only Ten can get in and claim these fully crafted pieces.

    That is like saying i too unlocked revan why am i not first in squad arena, even if he has better mods i too improved. Some people are just better in games not everyone is same. We are all equal in having a chance to be first not everyone should be. When my guild started doing HStr few of us tryharded p3 because that was only way for us to do it and your idea is that we should get same rewards as a guy who did palp in p2 because it is "fair"? If i contribute more i should get better rewards

    You have no understanding how guilds should work. That was there intention to milk some extra people in guilds. Now we have modes like GA or TW where you can prove yourself. And yeah, it is fair if you beat the raid as a guild that everyone gets the same rewards.

    I'm curious what ranks people asking for equal rewards are getting in their raids.

    Now I do agree that under rank 11-20 should have the chance at fully grafted G12 (but not G12+) pieces, and have the same salvage of G12+ that top 10 has now. More advancement for the guild is a good thing.

    I also believe that if you want better rewards... get better.

    In my guild our current top 10 ranks 10-20M damage, and under top 10, the damage falls off SIGNIFICANTLY. I saw a player complain that he was trying to get top 20 but missed it... 2.5M damage would have put him in top 20.

    I really don't feel the people putting in 2.5M deserve the same prize as the guys and gals putting in 10-20-50M scores. I know we live in a world of nobody left behind, but we have to remember that if we don't reward effort more than simple participation, people will stop putting in the effort and then everyone fails.

    TLDR: If you want top 10 rewards, build better teams, learn the raid, and GIT SOME
  • Yea if the equalize the raid rewards probably about half the players who do all the work in the raids would stop and raids would fail at that point i know i would stop trying if i got 50th and got same rewards as 1st if that happened welcome socialism
  • Simming the raid with the rewards as is was a completely stupid move EA. In my guild it’s now a no win situation between those who like or have the time to solo the raid and those who don’t have time and simply sign up. Somebody has to compromise and get screwed. It’s stupid stuff like this that really discourages long time players like myself to even continue to play anymore.
  • Yea if the equalize the raid rewards probably about half the players who do all the work in the raids would stop and raids would fail at that point i know i would stop trying if i got 50th and got same rewards as 1st if that happened welcome socialism

    Do you have this same approach towards tb and tw....

  • Yea if u put effort in you should get more
  • Daishi
    718 posts Member
    Obi1_son wrote: »
    Yea if the equalize the raid rewards probably about half the players who do all the work in the raids would stop and raids would fail at that point i know i would stop trying if i got 50th and got same rewards as 1st if that happened welcome socialism

    Do you have this same approach towards tb and tw....

    TB and TW are a different monster. TW is a pvp challenge, and the rewards from winning vs losing dont change much.

    TB has a set amount of battles you can do, so each person is limited in what they can achieve.

    If raids were set so each player could only do 2 battles and it requires all 50 players to participate equally in order to get rewards, then everyone should get equal rewards. Raids would never be beaten tho until solo teams became available because the reality is only the top 10-15 members carry the raid in most guilds.
  • You need all 50 guild members to obtain the tickets to be able to raid...
    Tw is a 24 hr event and if ppl minimally participate they get the same rewards as you and can cause you to get less via a loss...

    Tb... someone can choose to do nothing and get the same rewards as the rest of the participants

    The only difference between raids and the other events is that players MUST be active at a particular time to have the ability to play the event

    Does that mean they deserve less? they contributed to start the event...

    CG started raids with a flawed system to pin guild members against each other instead of promote cooperation and now since that is what players are used to, its defended. The rewards should be shared at the reward of 5-10 th place currently.
  • Train
    56 posts Member
    IMO, the real issue is that raid rewards are fixed, but guilds are all different. Some guilds have 5 players that do a lot in raids, some 10, some 15, some 20, etc. The reward system should be flexible to allow different guild compositions to reward players more equitably for their contribution. Right now if you aren’t top 10, there is little incentive to even participate unless your guild can’t finish the tier without you. If they can’t complete it without you or damage is spread more evenly, then the reward for lower damage players should be better. If they can, and you either aren’t participating or don’t have the roster to contribute significantly, then absolutely your rewards should not be as good.

    How to actually differentiate between these cases is one of the challenges. Perhaps a tiered rewards system based on % raid damage and number of players in Tier? Everyone who achieves a tier gets the same reward.
  • Jarvind
    3920 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    The whole idea of ranked raid rewards is kind of stupid to begin with. It puts you in direct competition with the same people you're cooperating with to beat it in the first place.

    Anyone who's had to deal with "loot drama" in a game like EverQuest or World of Warcraft, where you need 40+ people to down a boss who then drops 3 pieces of loot total, knows why this sucks. Obviously it's not AS bad here since everyone gets something, but the principle is still dumb.

    Simming results in the people who do the most work being "punished" because they now get less loot, while the people who couldn't or didn't do anything get rewarded for their nothing.
    u58t4vkrvnrz.png



  • evoluza wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    Personally, I loved the reward equalization when they tried it last year. It Actually drove more participation in our raids. Although, I can see it having an opposite effect on top tier guilds.

    But what is the point of improving your raid teams if you get same reward for #50 and #1. Yeah you are in a guild and in a team but if you contribute more to the team you should have more rewards

    You are one of those...
    You improve teams to beat the raid...
    That's the achievement you get. The rest is just punishing 40 other people that can't place top 10.
    I better mention that only TEN people can place top 10. All 50 can improve, doesn't change the fact that only Ten can get in and claim these fully crafted pieces.

    A person doing 36 Million damage in HSTR should get the same reward as someone doing 1 damage? Equalization was terrible. The incentive for doing 36 million damage is reduced to basically zero and participation by dedicated players crashed and burned.

    CG’s analytics caught on to it and changed it back... as they should. If someone wants top rewards then put some blood sweat and tears into building a top notch HSTR team.
  • Chat
    18 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    In the past when they tried to equalize the rewards there was a huge outcry that it was a bad move.

    The equalization they are doing for simming is different, they are doing it because there is some side benefit being gained by not having to hit auto.

    Also not sure why you cant quote the dev team.

    As Obi1_son said, the outcry was HOW it was done. When people worked out the value of the rewards after equalization and saw they were basically rank 50, why wouldn't they be unhappy? Everyone took a hit to their end rewards.

    Rancor simming works because the difference between boxes is pretty small, and the rewards otherwise are non-inferior to what the guild overall would receive. If they added the same thing to hstr tomorrow (rank 11-15 box, rank 10 guild tokens) there'll be a major outcry about that because.... Well rank 11+ boxed rewards for hstr are so aweful that you'd need half a dozen boxes for each person to make the guild break even.
Sign In or Register to comment.