Don't get me wrong, I do love droids but I'd prefer them to get a unique mechanic & do away with the droids tag/rework a few classes designed around them to make more sense.
Really I think they should have some rudimentary role or skill customization - as in a way of slotting a droid into a team to fit a certain strategy. Nothing too extreme & likely a way of creating extra diversity in GA/TW raid teams & arena. Tho I'd try to reduce the impact on the latter.
Changing HK's leader ability means we'll get better droids in the future. I'm astoundingly okay with this.
It reminds me of an old CCG I used to play, Doomtown. Each set introduced a new mechanic alongside a new faction that was based around that mechanic and a couple cards for existing factions based on that mechanic. The third set introduced a faction with very subtle mechanics that ruled the meta right out of the gate and stayed strong for several sets, but its players very quickly got upset with the developers (Alderac, now AEG) because that faction almost never got any useable new characters. So even 10 sets into that game's life cycle, they were still using those launch characters--and it got worse when the game's internal banning function started taking a toll (Basically, the game had a meta story, and as characters died in the story you could no longer use them for official play) because they never had any good characters to replace the originals.
Towards the end of the game's lifecycle the developers stated that one of their biggest regrets was making that faction's abilities so strong off the jump that they had to hamstring everything they gave them down the line.
Every droid has to be designed with the idea of "What happens if they crit more than once?" That eliminates a whole swath of design options. It holds back the entire faction.
Honestly? Same thing with Finn. Why do you think the second wave of Resistance characters didn't have reliable exposes anywhere in their kits? Only BB-8 got one that would interact with Finn's leader ability and it had to have a cooldown mechanic so weird that people initially wrote it off before discovering that it was "only" about 4 or 5 turns.
Power creep is strange because not only does it mean that new characters are always more powerful than older characters, but it means that original characters become liabilities that need to be updated or else they risk breaking things further. Think about if Black Lotus were still in Magic: the Gathering--every card would have to have +1 casting cost because it would basically be taken for granted that any card could be brought into play on turn 1.
Nice work on explaining, I agree with every word.
About that I'm very concerned about the future jedis to be launched. They'll need to have synergy with others factions (Jedi Rey with Resistance and Jedi Luke with Rebels) so JKR can't come back to destroy the meta when these guys come.
One could argue revans lead is op with jedi him leading anything else is useless. Hk leadership applies to anything. And if cg creates highly advanced kits it could skew potency of whoever he leads a lot over revan. So i may be in the minority but i tend to believe cg in this case.
Wrong. HK lead applies ONLY to Droid allies. Revans applies at least to two factions OR and Jedi
Not quite actually, most of his abilities only apply to Jedi - such as the heal, prot regen & his mass assist.
Final Text: (ZETA) At the start of battle, Jedi and Old Republic allies gain +5 Speed, +5% Crit Chance and +5% Offense for each Jedi and each Old Republic ally. Jedi allies begin the battle with Tenacity Up for 1 turn. While Revan is in the leader slot and not the ally slot, units are immune to bonus Turn Meter effects from leader abilities until the start of the first turn of battle.
Whenever a Jedi ally attacks out of turn, they recover 20% of their Max Protection and deal 35% more damage. When a Jedi ally uses a Basic ability on an enemy with Bonus Protection, reduce the target enemy's Max Health by 10% (stacking, doesn't work against Raid Bosses). At the start of each Jedi ally's turn, they gain Strategic Advantage if no ally has Strategic Advantage. A Jedi ally with Strategic Advantage can't be countered.
Strategic Advantage: (cooldown 1) Dispel all debuffs on target other Jedi ally. They gain Strategic Advantage and assist, using their Basic ability. This character uses their Basic ability and loses Strategic Advantage.
One could argue revans lead is op with jedi him leading anything else is useless. Hk leadership applies to anything. And if cg creates highly advanced kits it could skew potency of whoever he leads a lot over revan. So i may be in the minority but i tend to believe cg in this case.
Wrong. HK lead applies ONLY to Droid allies. Revans applies at least to two factions OR and Jedi
Final Text: (ZETA) At the start of battle, Jedi and Old Republic allies gain +5 Speed, +5% Crit Chance and +5% Offense for each Jedi and each Old Republic ally.
Jedi allies begin the battle with Tenacity Up for 1 turn.
While Revan is in the leader slot and not the ally slot, units are immune to bonus Turn Meter effects from leader abilities until the start of the first turn of battle.
Whenever a Jedi ally attacks out of turn, they recover 20% of their Max Protection and deal 35% more damage. When a Jedi ally uses a Basic ability on an enemy with Bonus Protection, reduce the target enemy's Max Health by 10% (stacking, doesn't work against Raid Bosses). At the start of each Jedi ally's turn, they gain Strategic Advantage if no ally has Strategic Advantage. A Jedi ally with Strategic Advantage can't be countered.
Strategic Advantage: (cooldown 1) Dispel all debuffs on target other Jedi ally. They gain Strategic Advantage and assist, using their Basic ability. This character uses their Basic ability and loses Strategic Advantage.
HK Lead has tons of looping potential. I’d rather they remove it now, then let the exploit happen, then remove it. I’d love for droids to have a powerful Lead, but not at the expense of breaking the game.
As for Revan, he dominates: unless you can terminate GMY and make it so he can’t revive. Then the rest of the team has only whiffle bats to try and beat you.
HK Lead has tons of looping potential. I’d rather they remove it now, then let the exploit happen, then remove it. I’d love for droids to have a powerful Lead, but not at the expense of breaking the game.
As for Revan, he dominates: unless you can terminate GMY and make it so he can’t revive. Then the rest of the team has only whiffle bats to try and beat you.
Whiffle bats are enough if they can stay alive until the battle times out...
Yup, this is ****. Ive made a droid Team with intention of playing them under HK. Zeta on IG, L3, T3 and IPD.now all of those zetas will be useless - especially L3 and T3 zetas. And i'll get refund for omegas of HK. ****!
Why would you expect an omega refund?
Because he is literate? They already said they're refunding the mats involved with his leadership
LOL at people hoping for better droids because this rework.... Unless they were to rework the entire faction, you aren't going to find any toons they haven't used yet that somehow turns the faction around
Just to clarify, HK lead for droids MUST be nerfed because there is no way to put droids in the game without creating infinite loops due to his TM gain on crits. Ok.
On a COMPLETELY UNRELATED NOTE, the same patch that nerfs his lead makes Dark Side Bastila's -60% crit chance debuff for non force users undispellable. Also HK has an ability that stops all bonus TM gain against enemies under certain conditions. That's added to the dozens of toons and mechanics that either already shut down crit based attacks, or already shut down TM gain. Plenty more could be slightly altered or targeted at droids to counter any infinite loop.
I like the other changes to HK. His lead isn't a huge loss as it was already not meta. But it shows completely laziness, cluelessness, and a total lack of imagination to think this nerf was needed. Try actually getting droids up above 0.001% of the meta before worrying about a nerf.
Just to clarify, HK lead for droids MUST be nerfed because there is no way to put droids in the game without creating infinite loops due to his TM gain on crits. Ok.
On a COMPLETELY UNRELATED NOTE, the same patch that nerfs his lead makes Dark Side Bastila's -60% crit chance debuff for non force users undispellable. Also HK has an ability that stops all bonus TM gain against enemies under certain conditions. That's added to the dozens of toons and mechanics that either already shut down crit based attacks, or already shut down TM gain. Plenty more could be slightly altered or targeted at droids to counter any infinite loop.
I like the other changes to HK. His lead isn't a huge loss as it was already not meta. But it shows completely laziness, cluelessness, and a total lack of imagination to think this nerf was needed. Try actually getting droids up above 0.001% of the meta before worrying about a nerf.
While the counters work well in arena, it still is a problem in GA and TW. You would need every single defensive team to have a way to shut down crits, or risk HK just walking over it no matter how geared it is. That's not healthy gameplay.
And raids are another problem. They can't include anti-crit mechanics in raids without shutting down disproportionate number of nonproblematic teams.
Just to clarify, HK lead for droids MUST be nerfed because there is no way to put droids in the game without creating infinite loops due to his TM gain on crits. Ok.
On a COMPLETELY UNRELATED NOTE, the same patch that nerfs his lead makes Dark Side Bastila's -60% crit chance debuff for non force users undispellable. Also HK has an ability that stops all bonus TM gain against enemies under certain conditions. That's added to the dozens of toons and mechanics that either already shut down crit based attacks, or already shut down TM gain. Plenty more could be slightly altered or targeted at droids to counter any infinite loop.
I like the other changes to HK. His lead isn't a huge loss as it was already not meta. But it shows completely laziness, cluelessness, and a total lack of imagination to think this nerf was needed. Try actually getting droids up above 0.001% of the meta before worrying about a nerf.
While the counters work well in arena, it still is a problem in GA and TW. You would need every single defensive team to have a way to shut down crits, or risk HK just walking over it no matter how geared it is. That's not healthy gameplay.
And raids are another problem. They can't include anti-crit mechanics in raids without shutting down disproportionate number of nonproblematic teams.
No, that's perfectly healthy gameplay for GA or TW. The rock/paper/scissors counter strategy is exactly what those modes depend on. Otherwise it's just a roster check of who has the most OP meta teams. I've run droids for a long time, there are way too many hard and soft counters to crit-based TM gain for droids to actually be OP.
CG just doesn't want anything to take away from sales for DR. If HK/droids were made better apart from DR, there is less demand to panic farm for DR. It is disingenuous for CG to suggest the old HK lead limited design space while at the same time releasing characters with 7 abilities and abilities with walls of text.
LOL at people hoping for better droids because this rework.... Unless they were to rework the entire faction, you aren't going to find any toons they haven't used yet that somehow turns the faction around
The reasons are on the dev post and they are logical. The lead isnt OP, it just no longer functions with the intended direction of the game (i.e expect some toons on the future who would have created carnage under his current lead + the rework)
HK is a relic from early game where he was stuck in as a filler toon with a weak supporting cast that had one shot at glory when Jawa Engineer was a thing. Since, and before he has been useless.
He's a Kotor toon, who is an assassin droid, created by Revan, who works for Revan. I don't know why you think reworking him (which he's long overdue) to synergise with Revan is a bad thing?
If you want to play with droids they just reworked a whole bunch of them. HK is for slaying meatbags, not leading droids.
Just to clarify, HK lead for droids MUST be nerfed because there is no way to put droids in the game without creating infinite loops due to his TM gain on crits. Ok.
On a COMPLETELY UNRELATED NOTE, the same patch that nerfs his lead makes Dark Side Bastila's -60% crit chance debuff for non force users undispellable. Also HK has an ability that stops all bonus TM gain against enemies under certain conditions. That's added to the dozens of toons and mechanics that either already shut down crit based attacks, or already shut down TM gain. Plenty more could be slightly altered or targeted at droids to counter any infinite loop.
I like the other changes to HK. His lead isn't a huge loss as it was already not meta. But it shows completely laziness, cluelessness, and a total lack of imagination to think this nerf was needed. Try actually getting droids up above 0.001% of the meta before worrying about a nerf.
While the counters work well in arena, it still is a problem in GA and TW. You would need every single defensive team to have a way to shut down crits, or risk HK just walking over it no matter how geared it is. That's not healthy gameplay.
And raids are another problem. They can't include anti-crit mechanics in raids without shutting down disproportionate number of nonproblematic teams.
That's absurd. The top GA/TW teams all already have mechanics that totally shut them down.
JKR has crit avoidance in his lead. He also is frequently paired with Yoda who passes around foresight, and Kenobi who passes around crit immunity.
Next we have Treya lead which also has crit immunity. Also Nihilus will inflict debuffs on the enemy turns which damage them, but heal Treya teams even on enemy turns. Nihilus also gains TM and stacking health when the other two are debuffs (many droid AoEs debuff), so after a couple of attacks he would have an absurd health pool, and get free full TM at which point he would reduce all enemy cool downs, and stop any AoE crit trains. The whole trio gets stacking something when enemies hit them that add to survivability, offense, or cool down reduction. So as soon as they got turns it would be ugly. Treya would instakill somebody from behind her giant pool of bonus protection.
Bastila lead is usually good to run with Old Ben since GK is with Revan. If you hit any Jedi ally but Old Ben (like with AoEs) then he gains TM, and will AoE TM reduce/ability block any droid team which stops any TM train. He will already have bonus TM from Bastila lead, and will be hard to daze or ability block with all the bonus tenacity from her lead. He will shut down the droid train in the first turn or two.
JTR has multiple characters that give themselves or their allies foresight which screws up AoE crits. Resistance also has a tank that gives crit avoidance to teammates. Also Rey gains TM when allies are debuffed (which happens a lot on droid AoEs). And BB8 can counter which calls an ally, and they both will frequently crit which exposes enemies and gives the whole team TM.
CLS would be a joke to try to use droids against. They counter AoEs to death. Also CLS gains TM when you hit his allies. Also he gives his whole team TM when he debuffs (which would happen on his turns, and on his counter attacks) and if anyone got resisted (either on a turn or counter) it also gives team TM.
Palpatine/Vader/Shoretrooper are starting to get in the vulnerable range, but it's VERY easy to get Vader VERY fast with his unique. Vader starts a team TM train that rolls over mid tier teams, so droids would have little chance. Add Shoretrooper to give your team crit immunity, or Tarkin to inflict crit chance down, and it's a solid counter.
Phoenix has team counter attack ability which would take chunks out of any AoE crit teams. That includes Zeb who can daze on his basic as he counter attacks. Phoenix has great survivability/healthy regen. They could survive a round or two of AoEs, they come back and kill the droids.
Bounty Hunters are another team that is somewhat vulnerable, but they do have a very fast character in Jango that gives more speed with his leadership and has an ability that STOPS ALL TM GAIN.
Nightsisters under Asajj lead get TM is they drop below full health. MT gain extra TM if anyone drops below half health. Asajj also gets TM plus bonuses on any character death, with built in mechanics from Zombie to autorevive. So an AoE droid team could not get an infinite loop going against a NS team.
First order under Kylo has insane durability, and a couple of counter attacking characters that can that gain TM when they crit, so no loops there.
Under Phasma lead your remaining FO toons start each encounter with advantage, and are immune to crits while they have it.
General Grievous teams have B2 gaining TM frequently any time anyone but him is hit, and calling B1 to assist and giving B1 TM on his special. Magnaguard counter attacks. Droideka gains TM on enemy turns. All of that stops enemy loops. And if they managed to kill off a toon then GG gets a free turn too just for good measure.
Maul teams can dodge and gain TM to stop infinite loops. They also gain stealth if they are critically hit, and they can't be crit while they have stealth. Maul also has an AoE daze to shut down loops, and is often paired with Savage who gains TM when hit to shut down loops.
Carth lead gives OR crit avoidance which stacks nicely with the crit avoidance that Zaalbar unique gives himself and Mission. His auto taunt/retribution with tons of assist calls from Carth lead would also stop an infinite loop.
Qi'ra lead gives stacking crit avoidance to scoundrel tanks. She is often run with Nest who has insane survivability and counter attacks to stop AoE loops, and if that doesn't work then maybe her AoE daze will.
That's not to mention a whole host of other toons and strategies to counter an AoE crit lead. Rex stops it. Zarris stops it. Wampa stops it. Biggs Darklighter would stop an infinite loop for crying out loud. Throw those 4 on a team with a random tank and press auto, and call it a day.
That's 16 teams comprising 80 characters that would shut it down as is with no modification. Some of those teams are garbage now, and I'm sure there are more I didn't even include. How are droids (even some future droids) a problem in GA/TW?!? And SO WHAT if they can kill a C or D squad without them taking a turn. Tons of top teams do that already. I can kill a great BH squad without them getting a turn using Palpatine, Vader, Tarkn, and nearly any two other random empire/sith toons like an undergeared non-Zeta Sid for instance. Palpatine is B tier at this point. Does he need a nerf? There are plenty of great teams that get eaten alive effortlessly by something else if you don't modify them right. This is no different. Not every team needs to be impenetrable to everything. That is already not true. Some teams need glaring, exploitable weaknesses to balance things out. Most even romotely useful teams can already handle droids, and have mechanics in place to deal with DRASTICALLY improved droids.
And raids AS IS have ZERO problems with droid loops. Raid bosses gain TM when they are hit. That mechanic alone makes no loop from HK possible. Other loops exist, and the devs are fine with them (CLS vs Rancor for example), but NONE involve HK. Stacking speed, and invulnerability to TM reduction mechanics that already exist in the Sith seem like they would shut down any future loops. So I don't see the problem.
So a below F tier team that is ZERO percent of the meta, and is already countered by almost any decent team, and is already shut down by current raid mechanics is such an overpowered threat in theory that it has to be fixed?!?!? This is absurd.
HK lead is ridiculous and is one step away from an infinite loop unless you have GK on your team. Its kinda like Finn lead, where future toons of a specific faction have to be re-developed due to how easily it can break things. I think its a good move to change or get rid of the lead and rework it to be more closely aligned with his character
There’s so many other characters with anti crit abilities built into their kits (shore, revan, jolee, traya) and so many others with foresight (both yodas, Rey, zQGJ). This response is absurd
LOL at people hoping for better droids because this rework.... Unless they were to rework the entire faction, you aren't going to find any toons they haven't used yet that somehow turns the faction around
What does that have to do with anything? You still gonna run that same team without the TM gains that you currently get?
My point is, they are nerfng the faction so they can better prepare for the future.... you think that they are going to be adding some great droid to this game that's not already there or a major part of the popular lore?
You still gonna run that same team without the TM gains that you currently get?
Not my team. It's someone in my shard. He's been getting through the revans..before that the traya teams...etc etc. I assume he was hoping for not worse just like the others were...
You still gonna run that same team without the TM gains that you currently get?
Not my team. It's someone in my shard. He's been getting through the revans..before that the traya teams...etc etc. I assume he was hoping for not worse just like the others were...
I stil don’t get what you’re trying to say tbh, A LOT of people are saying we don’t have better droids because the lead is so broken, they are saying that because the lead is being “fixed” they will be able make new droids that are good and not held back by lack of Crits and AOEs..... which we know is a crock, they’re not going to add new droids that are that are really good while also being a very minor character to most fans
Changing HK's leader ability means we'll get better droids in the future. I'm astoundingly okay with this.
I have come to the conclusion that you are right. Nonetheless, it is kind of frustrating that many recent droids have had anti-crit synergy put in place because of this, and we no they won't get a retouch any time soon.
-serious not many droids are left, clearly no legend material or leader droids so bets are on outside faction support like TW fun with Jawas&Genosians that maybe are tested reworks but that are also factions without a huge fan base and CG maybe will not invest ressources here.
Right now, I can think of BB-9E, Separatist commander droid, the Chopper's sidekick (whatever is his name?), that imperial protocol/assasin droid from Rebels, the droids from Doctor Aphra and Proxy from Force unleashed (unlikely but could be awesome). The most likely options are nothing really spectacular, but no dry well either. And bear in mind that a lot of new content is coming, which definitely means more droids as well.
How is proxy unlikely?
They told us about an 5 year plan and I am 100% sure force unleashed is part of it.
Since proxy takes an huge story part, I don't see them not adding proxy
I think content from movies and series is more likely to be added than stuff from other media, but that's just my personal opinion. Besides, the best way to design Proxy would be to make him copy a character on the battlefield, and I'm not sure if that's really safe. Characters we get here are designed to be present only once on a team.
Yup, this is ****. Ive made a droid Team with intention of playing them under HK. Zeta on IG, L3, T3 and IPD.now all of those zetas will be useless - especially L3 and T3 zetas. And i'll get refund for omegas of HK. ****!
Me too. Ive spent the last 2 months putting heaps of crystals credits and zetas into a HK lead droid squad now they decide to change it. It is a load of cra.p. i was also working on a second resistance squad under finns lead before they changed it out of the blue so my last 4 to 5 months have been for two ok squads that could have been great squads.
Changing HK's leader ability means we'll get better droids in the future. I'm astoundingly okay with this.
I have come to the conclusion that you are right. Nonetheless, it is kind of frustrating that many recent droids have had anti-crit synergy put in place because of this, and we no they won't get a retouch any time soon.
-serious not many droids are left, clearly no legend material or leader droids so bets are on outside faction support like TW fun with Jawas&Genosians that maybe are tested reworks but that are also factions without a huge fan base and CG maybe will not invest ressources here.
Right now, I can think of BB-9E, Separatist commander droid, the Chopper's sidekick (whatever is his name?), that imperial protocol/assasin droid from Rebels, the droids from Doctor Aphra and Proxy from Force unleashed (unlikely but could be awesome). The most likely options are nothing really spectacular, but no dry well either. And bear in mind that a lot of new content is coming, which definitely means more droids as well.
How is proxy unlikely?
They told us about an 5 year plan and I am 100% sure force unleashed is part of it.
Since proxy takes an huge story part, I don't see them not adding proxy
I don’t doubt that we will get Proxy. But how much droid synergy is he going to have? I don’t believe I ever saw Proxy even interact with another droid.
I see so many arguments for "Future Content" or "loops in raids" To try and defend CG (For some reason)
Current raids gain TM when hit, which means the loop ends. Also you need to crit at least 2 targets. Which means even aoe's will stop giving you TM.
Arena has many many counters to being crit, Zbarris, GK, ect. Any Revan team with GK cannot be beaten with HK lead based on a "loop". No matter how much you think a "loop" will happen.
Future content will likely be made harder then HSTR, which already can't be looped by HK. And it wouldn't be able to even if there was a droid that AOE'd and always critted on an AOE every turn.
HK is being nerfed, Finn is being nerfed, because CG wants Revan to be the only meta. They want to control the meta. They don't want to have to think outside the box or be creative, they want your money and that is it. Anything that might cause Revenue trouble will be targeted.
GK is not a complete counter to crits. All your opponent needs to do is include B2, who applies buff immunity, and you can still loop your crits as long as it lands on 1 toon (GK doesn’t get crit immunity, add 1 other toon and now you have 2 crits = 100%tm).
Seriously, if B1 could crit the arena would be crawling with HK, B1, B2, BB8 +1. BB8 goes first, then B2 dispells/applies buff immunity, then B1 takes infinite turns gaining more and more stacks each time. And since you gain 40% TM at the start, you would go first, meaning the loop would start before your opponent took a turn. And since those are the only 2 specials B1 and B2 have, pretty much a guarantee the AI would use them, meaning it would work just as well on defense, so there’s nothing your opponent could do about it other than throw in counter teams.
I’m ok with HK’s lead nerf.
Seriously, if B1 could crit the arena would be crawling with HK, B1, B2, BB8 +1. BB8 goes first, then B2 dispells/applies buff immunity, then B1 takes infinite turns gaining more and more stacks each time. And since you gain 40% TM at the start, you would go first, meaning the loop would start before your opponent took a turn. And since those are the only 2 specials B1 and B2 have, pretty much a guarantee the AI would use them, meaning it would work just as well on defense, so there’s nothing your opponent could do about it other than throw in counter teams.
I’m ok with HK’s lead nerf.
Key words: "other than throw in counter teams". Or you know, teams/characters that passively gain TM like nightsisters, rex lead, EP lead, etc.
Simple counters would exist, rock/paper/ scissors, no issue.
Replies
Really I think they should have some rudimentary role or skill customization - as in a way of slotting a droid into a team to fit a certain strategy. Nothing too extreme & likely a way of creating extra diversity in GA/TW raid teams & arena. Tho I'd try to reduce the impact on the latter.
Nice work on explaining, I agree with every word.
About that I'm very concerned about the future jedis to be launched. They'll need to have synergy with others factions (Jedi Rey with Resistance and Jedi Luke with Rebels) so JKR can't come back to destroy the meta when these guys come.
Final Text: (ZETA) At the start of battle, Jedi and Old Republic allies gain +5 Speed, +5% Crit Chance and +5% Offense for each Jedi and each Old Republic ally. Jedi allies begin the battle with Tenacity Up for 1 turn. While Revan is in the leader slot and not the ally slot, units are immune to bonus Turn Meter effects from leader abilities until the start of the first turn of battle.
Whenever a Jedi ally attacks out of turn, they recover 20% of their Max Protection and deal 35% more damage. When a Jedi ally uses a Basic ability on an enemy with Bonus Protection, reduce the target enemy's Max Health by 10% (stacking, doesn't work against Raid Bosses). At the start of each Jedi ally's turn, they gain Strategic Advantage if no ally has Strategic Advantage. A Jedi ally with Strategic Advantage can't be countered.
Strategic Advantage: (cooldown 1) Dispel all debuffs on target other Jedi ally. They gain Strategic Advantage and assist, using their Basic ability. This character uses their Basic ability and loses Strategic Advantage.
Final Text: (ZETA) At the start of battle, Jedi and Old Republic allies gain +5 Speed, +5% Crit Chance and +5% Offense for each Jedi and each Old Republic ally.
Jedi allies begin the battle with Tenacity Up for 1 turn.
While Revan is in the leader slot and not the ally slot, units are immune to bonus Turn Meter effects from leader abilities until the start of the first turn of battle.
Whenever a Jedi ally attacks out of turn, they recover 20% of their Max Protection and deal 35% more damage. When a Jedi ally uses a Basic ability on an enemy with Bonus Protection, reduce the target enemy's Max Health by 10% (stacking, doesn't work against Raid Bosses). At the start of each Jedi ally's turn, they gain Strategic Advantage if no ally has Strategic Advantage. A Jedi ally with Strategic Advantage can't be countered.
Strategic Advantage: (cooldown 1) Dispel all debuffs on target other Jedi ally. They gain Strategic Advantage and assist, using their Basic ability. This character uses their Basic ability and loses Strategic Advantage.
As for Revan, he dominates: unless you can terminate GMY and make it so he can’t revive. Then the rest of the team has only whiffle bats to try and beat you.
Whiffle bats are enough if they can stay alive until the battle times out...
Gee willikers Scooby. I missed that mesaage. EAD
On a COMPLETELY UNRELATED NOTE, the same patch that nerfs his lead makes Dark Side Bastila's -60% crit chance debuff for non force users undispellable. Also HK has an ability that stops all bonus TM gain against enemies under certain conditions. That's added to the dozens of toons and mechanics that either already shut down crit based attacks, or already shut down TM gain. Plenty more could be slightly altered or targeted at droids to counter any infinite loop.
I like the other changes to HK. His lead isn't a huge loss as it was already not meta. But it shows completely laziness, cluelessness, and a total lack of imagination to think this nerf was needed. Try actually getting droids up above 0.001% of the meta before worrying about a nerf.
While the counters work well in arena, it still is a problem in GA and TW. You would need every single defensive team to have a way to shut down crits, or risk HK just walking over it no matter how geared it is. That's not healthy gameplay.
And raids are another problem. They can't include anti-crit mechanics in raids without shutting down disproportionate number of nonproblematic teams.
No, that's perfectly healthy gameplay for GA or TW. The rock/paper/scissors counter strategy is exactly what those modes depend on. Otherwise it's just a roster check of who has the most OP meta teams. I've run droids for a long time, there are way too many hard and soft counters to crit-based TM gain for droids to actually be OP.
CG just doesn't want anything to take away from sales for DR. If HK/droids were made better apart from DR, there is less demand to panic farm for DR. It is disingenuous for CG to suggest the old HK lead limited design space while at the same time releasing characters with 7 abilities and abilities with walls of text.
This^^^
All of it.
💯
That's absurd. The top GA/TW teams all already have mechanics that totally shut them down.
JKR has crit avoidance in his lead. He also is frequently paired with Yoda who passes around foresight, and Kenobi who passes around crit immunity.
Next we have Treya lead which also has crit immunity. Also Nihilus will inflict debuffs on the enemy turns which damage them, but heal Treya teams even on enemy turns. Nihilus also gains TM and stacking health when the other two are debuffs (many droid AoEs debuff), so after a couple of attacks he would have an absurd health pool, and get free full TM at which point he would reduce all enemy cool downs, and stop any AoE crit trains. The whole trio gets stacking something when enemies hit them that add to survivability, offense, or cool down reduction. So as soon as they got turns it would be ugly. Treya would instakill somebody from behind her giant pool of bonus protection.
Bastila lead is usually good to run with Old Ben since GK is with Revan. If you hit any Jedi ally but Old Ben (like with AoEs) then he gains TM, and will AoE TM reduce/ability block any droid team which stops any TM train. He will already have bonus TM from Bastila lead, and will be hard to daze or ability block with all the bonus tenacity from her lead. He will shut down the droid train in the first turn or two.
JTR has multiple characters that give themselves or their allies foresight which screws up AoE crits. Resistance also has a tank that gives crit avoidance to teammates. Also Rey gains TM when allies are debuffed (which happens a lot on droid AoEs). And BB8 can counter which calls an ally, and they both will frequently crit which exposes enemies and gives the whole team TM.
CLS would be a joke to try to use droids against. They counter AoEs to death. Also CLS gains TM when you hit his allies. Also he gives his whole team TM when he debuffs (which would happen on his turns, and on his counter attacks) and if anyone got resisted (either on a turn or counter) it also gives team TM.
Palpatine/Vader/Shoretrooper are starting to get in the vulnerable range, but it's VERY easy to get Vader VERY fast with his unique. Vader starts a team TM train that rolls over mid tier teams, so droids would have little chance. Add Shoretrooper to give your team crit immunity, or Tarkin to inflict crit chance down, and it's a solid counter.
Phoenix has team counter attack ability which would take chunks out of any AoE crit teams. That includes Zeb who can daze on his basic as he counter attacks. Phoenix has great survivability/healthy regen. They could survive a round or two of AoEs, they come back and kill the droids.
Bounty Hunters are another team that is somewhat vulnerable, but they do have a very fast character in Jango that gives more speed with his leadership and has an ability that STOPS ALL TM GAIN.
Nightsisters under Asajj lead get TM is they drop below full health. MT gain extra TM if anyone drops below half health. Asajj also gets TM plus bonuses on any character death, with built in mechanics from Zombie to autorevive. So an AoE droid team could not get an infinite loop going against a NS team.
First order under Kylo has insane durability, and a couple of counter attacking characters that can that gain TM when they crit, so no loops there.
Under Phasma lead your remaining FO toons start each encounter with advantage, and are immune to crits while they have it.
General Grievous teams have B2 gaining TM frequently any time anyone but him is hit, and calling B1 to assist and giving B1 TM on his special. Magnaguard counter attacks. Droideka gains TM on enemy turns. All of that stops enemy loops. And if they managed to kill off a toon then GG gets a free turn too just for good measure.
Maul teams can dodge and gain TM to stop infinite loops. They also gain stealth if they are critically hit, and they can't be crit while they have stealth. Maul also has an AoE daze to shut down loops, and is often paired with Savage who gains TM when hit to shut down loops.
Carth lead gives OR crit avoidance which stacks nicely with the crit avoidance that Zaalbar unique gives himself and Mission. His auto taunt/retribution with tons of assist calls from Carth lead would also stop an infinite loop.
Qi'ra lead gives stacking crit avoidance to scoundrel tanks. She is often run with Nest who has insane survivability and counter attacks to stop AoE loops, and if that doesn't work then maybe her AoE daze will.
That's not to mention a whole host of other toons and strategies to counter an AoE crit lead. Rex stops it. Zarris stops it. Wampa stops it. Biggs Darklighter would stop an infinite loop for crying out loud. Throw those 4 on a team with a random tank and press auto, and call it a day.
That's 16 teams comprising 80 characters that would shut it down as is with no modification. Some of those teams are garbage now, and I'm sure there are more I didn't even include. How are droids (even some future droids) a problem in GA/TW?!? And SO WHAT if they can kill a C or D squad without them taking a turn. Tons of top teams do that already. I can kill a great BH squad without them getting a turn using Palpatine, Vader, Tarkn, and nearly any two other random empire/sith toons like an undergeared non-Zeta Sid for instance. Palpatine is B tier at this point. Does he need a nerf? There are plenty of great teams that get eaten alive effortlessly by something else if you don't modify them right. This is no different. Not every team needs to be impenetrable to everything. That is already not true. Some teams need glaring, exploitable weaknesses to balance things out. Most even romotely useful teams can already handle droids, and have mechanics in place to deal with DRASTICALLY improved droids.
And raids AS IS have ZERO problems with droid loops. Raid bosses gain TM when they are hit. That mechanic alone makes no loop from HK possible. Other loops exist, and the devs are fine with them (CLS vs Rancor for example), but NONE involve HK. Stacking speed, and invulnerability to TM reduction mechanics that already exist in the Sith seem like they would shut down any future loops. So I don't see the problem.
So a below F tier team that is ZERO percent of the meta, and is already countered by almost any decent team, and is already shut down by current raid mechanics is such an overpowered threat in theory that it has to be fixed?!?!? This is absurd.
There’s so many other characters with anti crit abilities built into their kits (shore, revan, jolee, traya) and so many others with foresight (both yodas, Rey, zQGJ). This response is absurd
What does that have to do with anything? You still gonna run that same team without the TM gains that you currently get?
My point is, they are nerfng the faction so they can better prepare for the future.... you think that they are going to be adding some great droid to this game that's not already there or a major part of the popular lore?
Not my team. It's someone in my shard. He's been getting through the revans..before that the traya teams...etc etc. I assume he was hoping for not worse just like the others were...
I stil don’t get what you’re trying to say tbh, A LOT of people are saying we don’t have better droids because the lead is so broken, they are saying that because the lead is being “fixed” they will be able make new droids that are good and not held back by lack of Crits and AOEs..... which we know is a crock, they’re not going to add new droids that are that are really good while also being a very minor character to most fans
I think content from movies and series is more likely to be added than stuff from other media, but that's just my personal opinion. Besides, the best way to design Proxy would be to make him copy a character on the battlefield, and I'm not sure if that's really safe. Characters we get here are designed to be present only once on a team.
Me too. Ive spent the last 2 months putting heaps of crystals credits and zetas into a HK lead droid squad now they decide to change it. It is a load of cra.p. i was also working on a second resistance squad under finns lead before they changed it out of the blue so my last 4 to 5 months have been for two ok squads that could have been great squads.
Just don't change toons. simple.
GK is not a complete counter to crits. All your opponent needs to do is include B2, who applies buff immunity, and you can still loop your crits as long as it lands on 1 toon (GK doesn’t get crit immunity, add 1 other toon and now you have 2 crits = 100%tm).
I’m ok with HK’s lead nerf.
Key words: "other than throw in counter teams". Or you know, teams/characters that passively gain TM like nightsisters, rex lead, EP lead, etc.
Simple counters would exist, rock/paper/ scissors, no issue.