Speed kills.

VonZant · March 21, 2019 3:30PM

Ok - what is fastest possible toon after considering relevant leader bonuses and uniques? DR appears to be "he who goes first wins." Assume +120 speed from mods.

Off the top of my head contenders off the top of my head would seem to be:

Sith Assassin alone (she doesnt get +75 speed from DR lead until she actually gets a turn, it appears).

Sass under Maul lead.

Nest under Jango.

FOO under KRU.

BB8 or T3 or R2 on full droid team?

Any others I am missing?

Nikoms565 · March 21, 2019 3:33PM

Just as an aside "he who goes first wins" has been true since the original Poe/Droids meta of early 2016.

VonZant · March 21, 2019 3:34PM

Or OR Jedi under Revan, kinda obviously.

And just for kicks:

Lobot + bb8 + 3 other droids.

TaranStorm11 · March 21, 2019 3:54PM

Off the top of my head I thiiiiink the fastest (defined as the character best equipped to take the first turn of the battle who isn’t Han Solo) is a god-speed modded BB8 in a full droid team. He’s fast as balls (pun intended) and his unique give what, like 50% preloaded turn meter?

Fastest character in the game purely by speed at the beginning of a battle is a Godspeed mod Darth Vader in a full sith/empire lineup against the three rebel/Jedi characters (old Ben, Ezra, Kanaan) and 2 other rebel or Jedi characters, which I believe comes out to +120 speed before mods from his unique, plus a presumed +120 from mods and a base G12+ of 133 gives a whopping flat speed number of 373

leef · March 21, 2019 4:00PM

if i had to guess i'm going with bb8 being the fastest. Too lazy to whip out the ol' calculator.

VonZant · March 21, 2019 4:01PM

TaranStorm11 wrote: »

Off the top of my head I thiiiiink the fastest (defined as the character best equipped to take the first turn of the battle who isn’t Han Solo) is a god-speed modded BB8 in a full droid team. He’s fast as balls (pun intended) and his unique give what, like 50% preloaded turn meter?

Fastest character in the game purely by speed at the beginning of a battle is a Godspeed mod Darth Vader in a full sith/empire lineup against the three rebel/Jedi characters (old Ben, Ezra, Kanaan) and 2 other rebel or Jedi characters, which I believe comes out to +120 speed before mods from his unique, plus a presumed +120 from mods and a base G12+ of 133 gives a whopping flat speed number of 373

Yeah Vader but he won't get that bonus against DR team. Han is always a factor for counter meta but assuming a non-shoots first situation.

Bb8 droid team + T3 Might work but would reqire BB and T3 to Both be faster than Sass after bonuses to use carbonite projecter before Sass.

Sentia · March 21, 2019 4:04PM

What about Paploo doesn't he get like 30% speed increase?

VonZant · March 21, 2019 4:05PM

Sentia wrote: »

What about Paploo doesn't he get like 30% speed increase?

Yep. Paploo should be counted too.

VonZant · March 21, 2019 4:13PM

Base (assuming database is right):

BB8 - 174
T3 - 138
Nest - 171
Sith Assasin - 163
Paploo - 120

Is BB8's 32-40% TM bonus calculated before or after mods and leadership abilities?

Vendi1983 · March 21, 2019 4:21PM

Young Han gets over 600 with a max speed set, his unique plus a speed up buff. I did the math a while back.

Edit - Found it:

Young Han 137 base +187 mods +14 speed set bonus +200 unique = 538 in-game speed
With speed up (not sure if it goes on base or current "in game", but if it does....) = 673

Vader 133 base +187 mods +13 set bonus +112 unique (5 Empire/Sith + 5 Rebel/Jedi) = 445
With speed up =556

Didn't include leaders adding speed because Tarkin and Jango both do +30.

VonZant · March 21, 2019 4:29PM

Vendi1983 wrote: »

Young Han gets over 600 with a max speed set, his unique plus a speed up buff. I did the math a while back.

Yeah sorry talking first turn speed, as that is likely all that will matter against DR.

Bb8 after mods - 174 + 120 from mods = 294 x .40 = 411? Can that be right? T3 - 357ish.

Or to base - BB8 - 174×.4 =244+120 from mods = 364? T3 would be 313ish.

Vendi1983 · March 21, 2019 4:32PM

Fastest possible mod set is +187 assuming ridiculous luck. So BB8

174+187+17 = 378 speed before TM gain.

TaranStorm11 · March 21, 2019 4:41PM

VonZant wrote: »

Vendi1983 wrote: »

Young Han gets over 600 with a max speed set, his unique plus a speed up buff. I did the math a while back.

Yeah sorry talking first turn speed, as that is likely all that will matter against DR.

Bb8 after mods - 174 + 120 from mods = 294 x .40 = 411? Can that be right? T3 - 357ish.

Or to base - BB8 - 174×.4 =244+120 from mods = 364? T3 would be 313ish.

Intuitive that it would work like that but bonus turn meter isn’t calculated off speed, you just get a higher starting point THEN your remaining turn meter to full is based off speed. So basically droids with BB8 get to start a 100 meter dash at the 40m mark. You’re halving the distance, nearly, so it’s almost functional doubling the speed. I think you can think of it like multiplying the speed by a factor of 1.8 to get a rough idea, so the first turn of a 300 speed BB8 (which is solid, but hardly god tier) is roughly 540. Translation: a fast BB8 (hell, even a slow one) is going to leave you in the dust

Edit: and so is his whole team. Don’t think you can murder DR’s full squad with 88 before he kicks your butt though

VonZant · March 21, 2019 4:43PM

So:

1. Can T3 be fast enough with BB8 to go before Sass and use Carbonite Projector to reduce enemy TM by 20%.
2. Is that 20% reduction enough to make a difference for the rest of the droids to disable DR or Fastilla before they use Fear or Shock?
3. Can the droids take advantage of their speed lead? GG lead + Droideka + R2? Or IPD to nuke DR or Fastilla? Not sure.

TaranStorm11 · March 21, 2019 4:48PM

VonZant wrote: »

So:

1. Can T3 be fast enough with BB8 to go before Sass and use Carbonite Projector to reduce enemy TM by 20%.
2. Is that 20% reduction enough to make a difference for the rest of the droids to disable DR or Fastilla before they use Fear or Shock?
3. Can the droids take advantage of their speed lead? GG lead + Droideka + R2? Or IPD to nuke DR or Fastilla? Not sure.

1. Absolutely
2. DR no since his unique means you have to kill him last, maaaaybe FB
3. Maybe! Certainly interesting to try. It would be easier with non-nerfed HK lead lol to keep the turn meter train rolling

VonZant · March 21, 2019 4:49PM

Yeah I'm guessing its exactly why they nerfed HKs lead.

MagicMatthews99 · March 21, 2019 5:13PM

God-mod Jawa Engineer in a full Jawa/Droid team?

Fahrius · March 21, 2019 5:19PM

Vendi1983 wrote: »

Young Han gets over 600 with a max speed set, his unique plus a speed up buff. I did the math a while back.

Edit - Found it:

Young Han 137 base +187 mods +14 speed set bonus +200 unique = 538 in-game speed
With speed up (not sure if it goes on base or current "in game", but if it does....) = 673

Vader 133 base +187 mods +13 set bonus +112 unique (5 Empire/Sith + 5 Rebel/Jedi) = 445
With speed up =556

Didn't include leaders adding speed because Tarkin and Jango both do +30.

are you seriously talking about having 5 6* mods with 31 speed each?...

Vendi1983 · March 21, 2019 5:28PM

@Fahrius Hence why I said ridiculous luck. Virtually impossible but it's still possible. Just not probable. It was a thread trying to figure out highest possible speed a few months ago.

chionophile · March 21, 2019 6:10PM

Droideka has to be a candidate for "first to go". It has 103 base speed max. My best mod set gives Droideka +150, so he'd be at 253 base speed. He'd start without damage immunity, so that's +50%, which is 253 * 1.5 = 379.5. Put him in an all droid team that includes BB-8, and he'd have 379.5 / 0.6 = 632.5 effective starting speed. I think that math is right, although this wouldn't really help in beating Darth Revan.

VonZant · March 21, 2019 6:27PM

chionophile wrote: »

Droideka has to be a candidate for "first to go". It has 103 base speed max. My best mod set gives Droideka +150, so he'd be at 253 base speed. He'd start without damage immunity, so that's +50%, which is 253 * 1.5 = 379.5. Put him in an all droid team that includes BB-8, and he'd have 379.5 / 0.6 = 632.5 effective starting speed. I think that math is right, although this wouldn't really help in beating Darth Revan.

Damage immunity + smokescreen? Dunno. Just having fun theorycrafting.

Rath_Tarr · March 21, 2019 6:28PM

VonZant wrote: »

Vendi1983 wrote: »

Young Han gets over 600 with a max speed set, his unique plus a speed up buff. I did the math a while back.

Yeah sorry talking first turn speed, as that is likely all that will matter against DR.

In that case raid Han.

VonZant · March 21, 2019 7:42PM

Sith Assasin can get approx 339 under ZMaul with a +120 speed set. 283 without Maul.

Sad when 283 speed sounds slow.

Woodroward · March 21, 2019 8:20PM

so we're looking for characters that have both a high base speed as well as large amount of initial tm gain or some sort of speed boost. So:

Paploo 120 * 1.25 (150 before mods)
Dooku (under Zaul) 179 +20%tm (223.75 before mods)
BB8 (with 4 droids) 174 +40%tm (290 before mods)
Lobot (with 4 droids) 132 * 1.22 (161 before mods)
JE (with 4 jawa/droids) 165 +50
Vader w/palp and 3 emp/sith vs ezra ben kanaan and 2 jedi/rebel 133 +120
HY under Revan w bastilla, jolee, and 1 or/jedi 172 +40
TFP under GMT 182 +30

So before any mods are put on the fastest is bb, followed by Vader, then Dooku, then Jawa Engineer, then TFP/HY, Lobot, and finally Paploo.

Now Paploo, Dooku, BB8, and Lobot will all get more than a 1:1 Ratio on stacking speed so will climb those ranks as more and more speed gets stacked on them, but the other 4 can only see their starting position fall as equal speed is stacked with others.

So BB will always go first in equal mod stacking. Dooku and Paploo are tied for multipler so will always have the same gap. Lobot will eventually get surpassed by Paploo due to the higher speed multiplier.

With max mods one of those 4 will likely always go first.

PNutButterCookie · March 21, 2019 8:56PM

Careful when relying on TM reduction. They will be immune to it as long as they have a debuff.

VonZant · March 21, 2019 8:57PM

Woodroward wrote: »

so we're looking for characters that have both a high base speed as well as large amount of initial tm gain or some sort of speed boost. So:

Paploo 120 * 1.25 (150 before mods)
Dooku (under Zaul) 179 +20%tm (223.75 before mods)
BB8 (with 4 droids) 174 +40%tm (290 before mods)
Lobot (with 4 droids) 132 * 1.22 (161 before mods)
JE (with 4 jawa/droids) 165 +50
Vader w/palp and 3 emp/sith vs ezra ben kanaan and 2 jedi/rebel 133 +120
HY under Revan w bastilla, jolee, and 1 or/jedi 172 +40
TFP under GMT 182 +30

So before any mods are put on the fastest is bb, followed by Vader, then Dooku, then Jawa Engineer, then TFP/HY, Lobot, and finally Paploo.

Now Paploo, Dooku, BB8, and Lobot will all get more than a 1:1 Ratio on stacking speed so will climb those ranks as more and more speed gets stacked on them, but the other 4 can only see their starting position fall as equal speed is stacked with others.

So BB will always go first in equal mod stacking. Dooku and Paploo are tied for multipler so will always have the same gap. Lobot will eventually get surpassed by Paploo due to the higher speed multiplier.

With max mods one of those 4 will likely always go first.

Thanks very helpful.

But I think it needs to be: who can go first AND/OR also allow or help someone else on your team to go before fallen bastilla with a useful ability to stop them from getting fear off. (So example Sass or JE etc + Nest or T3 TM reduction, a stun or ability block, etc).

Again possible I am wrong but it appears once a DR team gets fear off, its going to be really tough to beat them.

VonZant · March 21, 2019 8:59PM

PNutButterCookie wrote: »

Careful when relying on TM reduction. They will be immune to it as long as they have a debuff.

That only matters if they go before you. TM reduction should work first turn.

Woodroward · March 21, 2019 9:11PM

VonZant wrote: »

Woodroward wrote: »

so we're looking for characters that have both a high base speed as well as large amount of initial tm gain or some sort of speed boost. So:

Paploo 120 * 1.25 (150 before mods)
Dooku (under Zaul) 179 +20%tm (223.75 before mods)
BB8 (with 4 droids) 174 +40%tm (290 before mods)
Lobot (with 4 droids) 132 * 1.22 (161 before mods)
JE (with 4 jawa/droids) 165 +50
Vader w/palp and 3 emp/sith vs ezra ben kanaan and 2 jedi/rebel 133 +120
HY under Revan w bastilla, jolee, and 1 or/jedi 172 +40
TFP under GMT 182 +30

So before any mods are put on the fastest is bb, followed by Vader, then Dooku, then Jawa Engineer, then TFP/HY, Lobot, and finally Paploo.

Now Paploo, Dooku, BB8, and Lobot will all get more than a 1:1 Ratio on stacking speed so will climb those ranks as more and more speed gets stacked on them, but the other 4 can only see their starting position fall as equal speed is stacked with others.

So BB will always go first in equal mod stacking. Dooku and Paploo are tied for multipler so will always have the same gap. Lobot will eventually get surpassed by Paploo due to the higher speed multiplier.

With max mods one of those 4 will likely always go first.

Thanks very helpful.

But I think it needs to be: who can go first AND/OR also allow or help someone else on your team to go before fallen bastilla with a useful ability to stop them from getting fear off. (So example Sass or JE etc + Nest or T3 TM reduction, a stun or ability block, etc).

Again possible I am wrong but it appears once a DR team gets fear off, its going to be really tough to beat them.

well most of those listed do have a way to do something. Paploo can call elder to assist, HY can call someone to assist, Lobot, JE, and bb8 all give tm to their droid squad. Vader could ability block potentially. Swap sass for dooku and GAT for TFP and you've got your fastest go first gimmicks.

EDIT: I will say. Fear only last until the first time you take combat damage so if there are any AoEs on the opposing team it's just going to cancel out fear itself if they have DR going first.

Jarvind · March 21, 2019 9:21PM

VonZant wrote: »

Sith Assasin can get approx 339 under ZMaul with a +120 speed set. 283 without Maul.

Sad when 283 speed sounds slow.

What really hurts me in my soul here is that my Jedi Revan has my very best speed mod loadout and he's only at 275.

Psycosaltine · March 21, 2019 9:22PM

Woodroward wrote: »

VonZant wrote: »

Woodroward wrote: »

so we're looking for characters that have both a high base speed as well as large amount of initial tm gain or some sort of speed boost. So:

Paploo 120 * 1.25 (150 before mods)
Dooku (under Zaul) 179 +20%tm (223.75 before mods)
BB8 (with 4 droids) 174 +40%tm (290 before mods)
Lobot (with 4 droids) 132 * 1.22 (161 before mods)
JE (with 4 jawa/droids) 165 +50
Vader w/palp and 3 emp/sith vs ezra ben kanaan and 2 jedi/rebel 133 +120
HY under Revan w bastilla, jolee, and 1 or/jedi 172 +40
TFP under GMT 182 +30

So before any mods are put on the fastest is bb, followed by Vader, then Dooku, then Jawa Engineer, then TFP/HY, Lobot, and finally Paploo.

Now Paploo, Dooku, BB8, and Lobot will all get more than a 1:1 Ratio on stacking speed so will climb those ranks as more and more speed gets stacked on them, but the other 4 can only see their starting position fall as equal speed is stacked with others.

So BB will always go first in equal mod stacking. Dooku and Paploo are tied for multipler so will always have the same gap. Lobot will eventually get surpassed by Paploo due to the higher speed multiplier.

With max mods one of those 4 will likely always go first.

Thanks very helpful.

But I think it needs to be: who can go first AND/OR also allow or help someone else on your team to go before fallen bastilla with a useful ability to stop them from getting fear off. (So example Sass or JE etc + Nest or T3 TM reduction, a stun or ability block, etc).

Again possible I am wrong but it appears once a DR team gets fear off, its going to be really tough to beat them.

well most of those listed do have a way to do something. Paploo can call elder to assist, HY can call someone to assist, Lobot, JE, and bb8 all give tm to their droid squad. Vader could ability block potentially. Swap sass for dooku and GAT for TFP and you've got your fastest go first gimmicks.

EDIT: I will say. Fear only last until the first time you take combat damage so if there are any AoEs on the opposing team it's just going to cancel out fear itself if they have DR going first.

Can't assist against Dr can against everyone else on the team. Ability block and stun turn into ferocity. The wording is kinda weird but I think nomatter what (cleanse or natural expire) fear increases cooldowns.

PNutButterCookie · March 21, 2019 9:28PM

VonZant wrote: »

PNutButterCookie wrote: »

Careful when relying on TM reduction. They will be immune to it as long as they have a debuff.

That only matters if they go before you. TM reduction should work first turn.

I agree. Just giving a word of caution when relying on it as a mechanic.

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