How is this fair matchmaking?

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  • jkray622
    1636 posts Member
    Whatelse73 wrote: »
    jkray622 wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    I can live with just about anything, thanks for asking. I wouldn’t call that resource management, I would call it choosing which character you want. So personal choice management.

    The personal choice of where to invest your resources in the game. This game is a resource management game, period. Players that spend money can buy extra resources that f2p do not, so they don't have to do as much management (depending on how much they are willing to spend anyway).

    And some people guessed correctly where to put their resources. Some ignored other facets that could be beneficial in other parts of the game, their guild, etc., to focus on one aspect.

    Now Galactic Republic is going to make a resurgence and Ahnald has a video up of Anakin destroying DRevan teams, even WITH Malak. Who guessed that one would happen?

    No doubt. I was responding to the player who argued it's not a resource management decision, it's a personal choice decision. Thus, the italicized part of my comment.

    With limited resources, one has to pick and choose. I choose only to invest my resources where I see impact. Increased raid scores, easier arena/fleet battles + less falling overnight. Other than that, I tend to hoard so I can respond when EA drops an unexpected Legendary.

    I had over 800 Carbanti and 7 zetas saved up when Darth Revan was announced. I spent most of my carbanti, stun guns, and stun cuffs gearing up for Darth Revan. I slowly started to increase my hoard, then had to spend it all plus buy some gear with crystals in order to prepare for and gear Malak.

    Now that I have a maxed Darth Revan and Malak, I am not spending gear on anyone unless there's an immediate payoff. I'm trying to rebuild my resources stash so I can respond flexibly to any other surprises EA shoves in front of us. Once I get up to what I consider a "safe" level of gear and crystals, I will resume slowly increasing one squad at a time to improve my TW/GA effectiveness.

    That's how I manage my resources.
  • I think people are getting off topic. The point is that matchups should not be based solely on GP. It wouldn't be hard to make an algorithm to use. EA is just lazy.
  • jkray622
    1636 posts Member
    edited April 2019
    Majejames wrote: »
    I think people are getting off topic. The point is that matchups should not be based solely on GP. It wouldn't be hard to make an algorithm to use. EA is just lazy.

    So players who managed their resources wisely shouldn't be an advantage over players who poorly manage their resources?

    A player who makes poor decisions should be given a handicap so they only play against other poor decision-makers?

    In the world of "participation trophies" for all players, I suppose that makes sense.

    Edit: If I play Settlers of Catan, and I build only one extra settlement, and all my settlements are on really bad dice numbers, and all get the same resources, should the table take pity on me and only need me to get 5 Victory Points instead of the 10 the other players are targeting? (Hint - no, I'm just going to lose).
  • EdSolo
    410 posts Member
    The unfairness is really from the game developers. First they put out a game mode, territory battles, which encourage you not only to gear every toon to increase max GP, but also to 7* every toon in case they are needed in platoons. Then they put out GA which punishes you for gear and staring garbage toons. Unfortunately, I'm in the same boat 4.5 million GP but only 32 G12 toons, with 50 at G11. I also have 153 7* toons and everyone at lvl 85. I'm only missing Darth Revan and Darth Malak. I often get killed at GA. I will be in last place in the current one, however, the last place prize will give me the last ship omegas I need to finish off the Falcon.
  • I have more g12 than everyone else I face and have all farmable characters at 7*. It’s all about focus
  • Jarvind wrote: »
    Nobody ever said GA matchups would be fair. Just that you would have the same GP.

    I have to admit, I am curious why you leveled up dozens of characters you haven't used. Seems like a massive waste of credits.

    TB. TB came before TW and GA. Leveling characters was good to help your guild. And credits are plentiful, so there is no lost opportunity cost. Until they made GA that is......
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    jkray622 wrote: »
    Majejames wrote: »
    I think people are getting off topic. The point is that matchups should not be based solely on GP. It wouldn't be hard to make an algorithm to use. EA is just lazy.

    So players who managed their resources wisely shouldn't be an advantage over players who poorly manage their resources?

    A player who makes poor decisions should be given a handicap so they only play against other poor decision-makers?

    In the world of "participation trophies" for all players, I suppose that makes sense.

    Edit: If I play Settlers of Catan, and I build only one extra settlement, and all my settlements are on really bad dice numbers, and all get the same resources, should the table take pity on me and only need me to get 5 Victory Points instead of the 10 the other players are targeting? (Hint - no, I'm just going to lose).

    I mean, you’re right. But they already have participation trophies.

    I sign up for the club, walk-in, grab my free meal and leave. It’s the way to GA, if you planned poorly and won’t pay. ;) (That’s my new favorite rhyme)
  • Vorgen
    254 posts Member
    Every single post complaining about GA matchmaking being unfair comes down to this: “I didn’t win so it is unfair!”

    You will complain about the other guy having more zetas than you if CG adds number of g12s into matchmaking, once CG adds zetas into the formula, you will complain he has a certain p2w meta toon and you don’t so it’s unfair. The complain will never end. Get over it.

    If you feel like you’ve been fighting hopeless battles every time, just sign up and forget it. Take your free 8th place rewards for pushing just 1 button. That’s not a bad rewards to efforts ratio imo.
  • jkray622 wrote: »
    Majejames wrote: »
    I think people are getting off topic. The point is that matchups should not be based solely on GP. It wouldn't be hard to make an algorithm to use. EA is just lazy.

    So players who managed their resources wisely shouldn't be an advantage over players who poorly manage their resources?

    A player who makes poor decisions should be given a handicap so they only play against other poor decision-makers?

    In the world of "participation trophies" for all players, I suppose that makes sense.

    Edit: If I play Settlers of Catan, and I build only one extra settlement, and all my settlements are on really bad dice numbers, and all get the same resources, should the table take pity on me and only need me to get 5 Victory Points instead of the 10 the other players are targeting? (Hint - no, I'm just going to lose).

    It's not about who managed resources to gain GP a certain way. It's the fact that you can put to fluff players against each other with a simple algorithm.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    Vorgen wrote: »
    Every single post complaining about GA matchmaking being unfair comes down to this: “I didn’t win so it is unfair!”

    You will complain about the other guy having more zetas than you if CG adds number of g12s into matchmaking, once CG adds zetas into the formula, you will complain he has a certain p2w meta toon and you don’t so it’s unfair. The complain will never end. Get over it.

    If you feel like you’ve been fighting hopeless battles every time, just sign up and forget it. Take your free 8th place rewards for pushing just 1 button. That’s not a bad rewards to efforts ratio imo.

    This person knows what’s up.
  • Vorgen wrote: »
    Every single post complaining about GA matchmaking being unfair comes down to this: “I didn’t win so it is unfair!”

    You will complain about the other guy having more zetas than you if CG adds number of g12s into matchmaking, once CG adds zetas into the formula, you will complain he has a certain p2w meta toon and you don’t so it’s unfair. The complain will never end. Get over it.

    If you feel like you’ve been fighting hopeless battles every time, just sign up and forget it. Take your free 8th place rewards for pushing just 1 button. That’s not a bad rewards to efforts ratio imo.

    The problem is the amount of disparity. And this is coming from someone who always takes first or second. I shouldn't be competing against people who don't stand a chance because of how they geared toons. It's like pitting a little league baseball team against a professional team just because the little league has more players total.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    Majejames wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    Every single post complaining about GA matchmaking being unfair comes down to this: “I didn’t win so it is unfair!”

    You will complain about the other guy having more zetas than you if CG adds number of g12s into matchmaking, once CG adds zetas into the formula, you will complain he has a certain p2w meta toon and you don’t so it’s unfair. The complain will never end. Get over it.

    If you feel like you’ve been fighting hopeless battles every time, just sign up and forget it. Take your free 8th place rewards for pushing just 1 button. That’s not a bad rewards to efforts ratio imo.

    The problem is the amount of disparity. And this is coming from someone who always takes first or second. I shouldn't be competing against people who don't stand a chance because of how they geared toons. It's like pitting a little league baseball team against a professional team just because the little league has more players total.

    Except that’s completely different. They would have had different amounts of time to get better, different brain development, there are many factors there.

    What I think would be interesting is if they matched not only by GP but also by starting date. If you’ve had the same amount of time to prepare your toons as your opponent, that would make it more fair.
  • Here's the thing, you have to reward players who excel at Grand Arena in some way, otherwise there is no incentive to work at getting better at it. Obviously, the more maxed toons/teams the better, so let's use this as our idea of "getting better." There are two easy ways to reward maxing toons:

    1) The current system, which rewards people who focus on maxing teams over having roster fluff. This makes "getting better" at Grand Arena equivalent to focusing on one powerful team at a time and (near) maxing it out.

    2) Different rewards for different matchmaking tiers. Assuming that matchups are equal (notice I did not use the term fair), players with stronger rosters (in the eyes of matchmaking) should get better rewards. Otherwise GA is stale and there is no reason to work on my strategy and improve, because I will always just be playing against similar players.

    One thing to note is that I believe that fair and equal are not the same. The current matchmaking is fair, as we know (basically) how CG rewards roster composition with regards to grad arena; spreading your GP amongst the least amount of toons and having the more powerful characters. You may be at an initial disadvantage, but except for a few edge cases, you can work your roster into a shape which is more competitive for GA, if that's something you want to do. If it isn't, that's your descision and it is fine to make it, but CG needs to reward progression in this game mode in some way.
  • An account with 30 g12 with bad mods will always lose against an account that has 50 g11 with amazing mods, imho. If you want to win at GA, you either go g12 heavy, or at least go all g11 and have amazing mods.

    Imo the leanest rosters have 2 g12 arena squads, with the remaining squads being a mix of g10-g12+ toons. It's highly effective because u need a strong counter still since the g12 toons may screw u over.
  • BOBACOOK wrote: »
    2 years ago when TW and TB started, most people started to put gear on everyone and started 7 starring everyone. Now everybody that did this is paying the price for it.

    I did this as it's clear from my profile. But let me tell you. I just went up against a team in GA, that had 1 team for me to beat. Ewoks. It took me 7 tries. I got that team down! But because I had enough mid level 7 star toons, I got the job done! I took 2 territories, he took 1. I win. Thanks to spreading my GP around.

  • Nihion wrote: »
    You know those people crying about Malak? I'm not one because I chose to put my resources into gearing up KOTOR. I hear all these people crying about how unfair it was.... this post echos those sentiments. It's not unfair. It's where you chose to spend resources. That's why I scoff at those who cried about Malak. No, you chose to gear other characters up. That's all. 2 day notice? LOL I had em all G12 months before that happened. LOLOLOL

    Lol to think that you’re scoffing because you had better “resource management.” You’re just gloating that you got Malak and he was worth the investment.

    No, it's to point out the argument about resource management. You can't have it both ways. So I
    'm not letting them off the hook. I actually knew Malak was coming into the game. And I knew KOTOR would be needed. And I liked KOTOR characters. And yes, I really did have them all G12 months before Malak, and months before Darth Revan. If you couldn't read between the lines to see all these characters coming into the game, then --well, that's too bad.
    Do you know why I don't have C3P0? Because I couldn't spend any gear on ewoks while I geared my KOTOR. We all make choices...

    https://swgoh.gg/p/671797632/

    See, these are my choices. I have an inflated GP too... I did exactly what the OP is talking about. I have only 35 G12. I have all my toons 7 star and g7-9 I spent all over the place. ANd I cna live with that. Can you?

    False. You didn't know that. You may have believed or suspected but nothing was definitive. If Malak didn't come around than the case would be different.
    jkray622 wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    I can live with just about anything, thanks for asking. I wouldn’t call that resource management, I would call it choosing which character you want. So personal choice management.

    The personal choice of where to invest your resources in the game. This game is a resource management game, period. Players that spend money can buy extra resources that f2p do not, so they don't have to do as much management (depending on how much they are willing to spend anyway).

    You're misconstruing what he is saying there. The Post he was replying to was a person that said they were only going after one character, devoting all his resources to a character not even in the game. That's a personal choice
  • You're right. I don't work for EA or capital games. I did not know for 100% certain that Malak was coming into the game. But - I choose to reach. I choose to speculate based on numerous -and obvious to some, clues. Crumb drops. It's all laid out. When you see Revan's wife in the game... one does not think "Oh cool, nice KOTOR addition. Thanks". It should have pinged your radar hard. When they first started introducing Revan's release with Malak quotes. That too should have jumped on your radar. I mean at the end of the Darth Revan event, as if. But like you said... I didn't know for 100%. But I did know for 100%. In my mind, there wasn't a question.
  • TB. TB came before TW and GA. Leveling characters was good to help your guild. And credits are plentiful, so there is no lost opportunity cost. Until they made GA that is......
    Has something changed about TB since then? You just need the characters starred for them to be helpful for platoons, not leveled and geared.

    If you tried to gear up every single character you unlocked, you have been playing the game wrong. It sucks that the game didn't teach you that before GA was released, but that's also on you.
  • Tygra
    123 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    Majejames wrote: »
    The problem is the amount of disparity. And this is coming from someone who always takes first or second. I shouldn't be competing against people who don't stand a chance because of how they geared toons. It's like pitting a little league baseball team against a professional team just because the little league has more players total.

    Except that’s completely different. They would have had different amounts of time to get better, different brain development, there are many factors there.

    What I think would be interesting is if they matched not only by GP but also by starting date. If you’ve had the same amount of time to prepare your toons as your opponent, that would make it more fair.

    Okay, then compare minor leagues to major leagues. Major league would be your high gear toons and the minors would be your low gear toons. All the same age, but it is still 5 vs. 5. You completely missed the point he was trying to make. And because I chose to help my guild by spending resources that I had tons of and gear up toons that I didn't need, I'm now suffering for it. You can't tell me that my opponent doesn't have the extra resources to gear up his 20+ G1 toons to at least G5 or G6, gear that he most likely has hundreds or thousands of, and the minimal amount of credits required to craft gear at that level. He is clearly choosing not to because most likely he knows that by doing so will place him in a higher GP bracket that will most likely not give him such easy victories. And I don't think the starting date should be a deciding factor because some people that I know took time off away from this game. I would suggest something like maybe the GP of your top toons depending on how many you need for the GA. Like if you have to set 7 defensive 5 man squads, then your top 70 toons and the same for ships.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    Tygra wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Majejames wrote: »
    The problem is the amount of disparity. And this is coming from someone who always takes first or second. I shouldn't be competing against people who don't stand a chance because of how they geared toons. It's like pitting a little league baseball team against a professional team just because the little league has more players total.

    Except that’s completely different. They would have had different amounts of time to get better, different brain development, there are many factors there.

    What I think would be interesting is if they matched not only by GP but also by starting date. If you’ve had the same amount of time to prepare your toons as your opponent, that would make it more fair.

    Okay, then compare minor leagues to major leagues. Major league would be your high gear toons and the minors would be your low gear toons. All the same age, but it is still 5 vs. 5. You completely missed the point he was trying to make. And because I chose to help my guild by spending resources that I had tons of and gear up toons that I didn't need, I'm now suffering for it. You can't tell me that my opponent doesn't have the extra resources to gear up his 20+ G1 toons to at least G5 or G6, gear that he most likely has hundreds or thousands of, and the minimal amount of credits required to craft gear at that level. He is clearly choosing not to because most likely he knows that by doing so will place him in a higher GP bracket that will most likely not give him such easy victories. And I don't think the starting date should be a deciding factor because some people that I know took time off away from this game. I would suggest something like maybe the GP of your top toons depending on how many you need for the GA. Like if you have to set 7 defensive 5 man squads, then your top 70 toons and the same for ships.

    But we’re not all major or all minor, are we? We all have varying amounts of both. So how would they assess who is minor and who is major when you all have the same GP? It would be harder to code than you think, unless you’re an expert in game creation...

    I think time makes sense; if you took a break, that’s your loss. But that’s not my point. They should combine start date with GP.

    And I would like to remind everyone that no matter how well you do, you will still receive rewards.
  • Tygra
    123 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    But we’re not all major or all minor, are we? We all have varying amounts of both. So how would they assess who is minor and who is major when you all have the same GP? It would be harder to code than you think, unless you’re an expert in game creation...

    I think time makes sense; if you took a break, that’s your loss. But that’s not my point. They should combine start date with GP.

    And I would like to remind everyone that no matter how well you do, you will still receive rewards.

    Start time has absolutely no bearing on GP or how someone has played the game. I chose to use resources that I had stockpiled in an effort to increase my GP to help my guild after the introduction of the TB. I'm sorry that you disagree. But now I'm curious to see your roster.
  • Well, the game is simply forcing us to focus exclusively on a very few PVP teams and ignore EVERYTHING else. You make 4 defense and 4 attack teams (which is exactly 40 toons), you do not even activate any toons outside the 40 if you can help it, and if you activate them, you do not gear, do not level, and most certainly do not mod them. As for ships, you need 2 capital ships, and a total of 14 (3 main plus 4 reinforcements on the offense and defense team each). Again, you do not activate, and do not invest at all in ANY other ships.

    I have faced exactly that type of teams and I understand why they should have the advantage by focusing exclusively on PVP and nothing else in any PVP event.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    edited April 2019
    Tygra wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    But we’re not all major or all minor, are we? We all have varying amounts of both. So how would they assess who is minor and who is major when you all have the same GP? It would be harder to code than you think, unless you’re an expert in game creation...

    I think time makes sense; if you took a break, that’s your loss. But that’s not my point. They should combine start date with GP.

    And I would like to remind everyone that no matter how well you do, you will still receive rewards.

    Start time has absolutely no bearing on GP or how someone has played the game. I chose to use resources that I had stockpiled in an effort to increase my GP to help my guild after the introduction of the TB. I'm sorry that you disagree. But now I'm curious to see your roster.

    Right, start date does not define GP. So if they had two completely separate perimeters (start date and GP) then it would be a little more “fair”, and possibly a more similar distribution based on the characters that came out since that start date. It could have no effect at all, but it wouldn’t hurt to try it.

    My roster is sadly spread through many different junk characters. I rarely do well in GA. So I just log in, get the 8th place rewards and move on.
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