Airplane mode in TW to avoid preloading TM - Cheating?

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snoboredca
33 posts Member
edited May 10
Isn't this "cheating" or "hacking" the game?

It's openly discussed and recommended as "strategy" but it is used to deliberately circumvent the intended gameplay, is it not?

Thoughts?

Replies

  • It’s fine
  • Liath
    4942 posts Member
    It's the same thing as retreating, which the game specifically allows you to do. The only difference is that you can catch it at a time when you would have been defeated without a turn.
  • Liath wrote: »
    It's the same thing as retreating, which the game specifically allows you to do. The only difference is that you can catch it at a time when you would have been defeated without a turn.

    So if I'm confident I am a bringing a squad that will get at least one turn, I don't need airplane mode, I can just hit retreat/forfeit before I lose, and that will NOT give the opponent preloaded TM?
  • If it causes lost revenues they will stop it, if not... doubt they care.
    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • Jarvind
    2885 posts Member
    Just retreating does the same thing. You put up an L, but the enemy team resets to its initial state.
  • Liath
    4942 posts Member
    snoboredca wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    It's the same thing as retreating, which the game specifically allows you to do. The only difference is that you can catch it at a time when you would have been defeated without a turn.

    So if I'm confident I am a bringing a squad that will get at least one turn, I don't need airplane mode, I can just hit retreat/forfeit before I lose, and that will NOT give the opponent preloaded TM?

    Yes, but it's about the point in the round at which it happens. If you decide you want to retreat at a point where you don't have a turn then you have to actually get a turn after that before you die. Alternatively, you can force quit the app for the same effect without being in airplane mode. Airplane mode is just a little more foolproof because you won't get caught too quickly to react.
  • Kyno
    22127 posts Moderator
    Jarvind wrote: »
    Just retreating does the same thing. You put up an L, but the enemy team resets to its initial state.

    This.

    The only additional benefit to airplane mode is that it doesn't need to be your turn to retreat.
  • Bulldog1205
    3131 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Jarvind wrote: »
    Just retreating does the same thing. You put up an L, but the enemy team resets to its initial state.

    This.

    The only additional benefit to airplane mode is that it doesn't need to be your turn to retreat.

    So you are saying it does give you an additional benefit that playing the game the intended way doesn’t provide. Got it.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Jarvind wrote: »
    Just retreating does the same thing. You put up an L, but the enemy team resets to its initial state.

    This.

    The only additional benefit to airplane mode is that it doesn't need to be your turn to retreat.

    So you are saying it does give you an additional benefit that playing the game the intended way doesn’t provide. Got it.

    The problem with this statement is that just because a certain strategy or style of play is unintended does not necessarily mean it is cheating.
  • kello_511
    1143 posts Member
    I’ve always looked at it as a technical limitation more than anything.
    The game isn’t coded to let you retreat unless it’s your turn. They know that it’s done and haven’t said anything about it being a “cheat” or not meeting the spirit of the game.

    I mean: the in-game chat has a lot of limitations - so does that mean that using Discord is cheating?
    I’d say that in both cases, the devs seem to be fine with the workarounds that the users have come up with and are just essentially saying “Good, that’s easier than us re-coding the game to give you the functionality”.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Jarvind wrote: »
    Just retreating does the same thing. You put up an L, but the enemy team resets to its initial state.

    This.

    The only additional benefit to airplane mode is that it doesn't need to be your turn to retreat.

    So you are saying it does give you an additional benefit that playing the game the intended way doesn’t provide. Got it.

    The problem with this statement is that just because a certain strategy or style of play is unintended does not necessarily mean it is cheating.

    Thanks. Better argument. To an extent, if everyone agrees that an unintended strategy is "within bounds" then that's a strong point to make that it isn't cheating -- because we who play the game all agree it isn't.

    If that agreement actually exists, of course.
  • Vertigo
    4442 posts Member
    edited May 13


    See the thing is, he's not wrong. Which is the point that I think the OP is trying to get at here. Everyone uses airplane mode. Everyone knows it works the same as if you had retreated, but retreating requires you to do such a thing on your own turn.

    The main problem is that the airplane mode "issue" or "thing" or "idea" or whatever you want to call it has never been addressed by the game Devs as something that is good or bad, they've just never really talked about it. Bulldog is just trying to point out that we are in fact doing something that the game doesn't directly allow us to do, and so do we really have a definite answer as to is it bad? Does the game want us to have to get a turn to retreat, is that by design? Do they actually not want people to use airplane mode in case of mess ups?
    Most people would argue no they don't really care, but the way it's laid out in game that's not obvious...


    Removed quoted post~Rtas
    Post edited by EA_Rtas on
  • Vertigo wrote: »
    snoboredca wrote: »
    Jarvind wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Jarvind wrote: »
    Just retreating does the same thing. You put up an L, but the enemy team resets to its initial state.

    This.

    The only additional benefit to airplane mode is that it doesn't need to be your turn to retreat.

    So you are saying it does give you an additional benefit that playing the game the intended way doesn’t provide. Got it.

    Oh, dude, no. Don't be that guy. You know perfectly well what we were both trying to say, and you're just trying to be a contrary **** because you think it makes you interesting.

    An ad hominem attack doesn't demonstrate why he's wrong.

    You can't claim "it's the same" if you then immediately describe how it's different.

    See the thing is, he's not wrong. Which is the point that I think the OP is trying to get at here. Everyone uses airplane mode. Everyone knows it works the same as if you had retreated, but retreating requires you to do such a thing on your own turn.

    The main problem is that the airplane mode "issue" or "thing" or "idea" or whatever you want to call it has never been addressed by the game Devs as something that is good or bad, they've just never really talked about it. Bulldog is just trying to point out that we are in fact doing something that the game doesn't directly allow us to do, and so do we really have a definite answer as to is it bad? Does the game want us to have to get a turn to retreat, is that by design? Do they actually not want people to use airplane mode in case of mess ups?
    Most people would argue no they don't really care, but the way it's laid out in game that's not obvious...

    I'm starting to think that, given its widespread use and discussion on official threads (and endorsement by high level YouTube game advisors with test accounts), the longer the Devs go without comment, the more that indicates to us that they do not view it to be contrary to the spirit of the game.
  • leef
    13168 posts Member
    i'm with @Bulldog1205 on this one.
    Using airplane mode or even force closing could easily be considered "cheating" under the ToS. What's the difference between using airplane mode and the most recent "exploit" with mods in GA?
    aside from the devs stating the latter is a banable offense obviously, but that's just it. We don't know untill the devs come out with a statement on the matter or patch it like they did with guildhopping. The difference between "gaming the system to gain an advantage" which is considered to be A okay and "Use exploits, cheats, undocumented features, design errors or problems in an EA Service" (direct quote from the ToS, bolded the parts that (potentially) apply to the mod issue and/or using airplane mode) which could lead to account suspension is not very clear at all.
    I don't want to get this thread closed, but the point i'm trying to make obviously applies more to the mod issue than to the airplane mode thingy. Airplane mode is commonly used and very unlikely to be considered "cheating" now or in the future.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • TVF
    17944 posts Member
    Anyone who gets kicked from their guild for this dastardly airplane deed is welcome to check ours out ;)
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • leef wrote: »
    aside from the devs stating the latter is a banable offense obviously, but that's just it.


    Seems like you acknowledge that's a big distinction though.
  • leef
    13168 posts Member
    edited May 10
    snoboredca wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    aside from the devs stating the latter is a banable offense obviously, but that's just it.


    Seems like you acknowledge that's a big distinction though.

    my punctuation is horrible.
    aside from the devs stating the latter is a banable offense obviously. But that's just it, we don't know untill the devs come out with a statement....
    edit: and, yes it's a big distinction. Also the only distinction that matters seeying as both could easily be determined a sanctionable offense by the devs if they so choose.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • snoboredca
    33 posts Member
    edited May 10
    leef wrote: »
    snoboredca wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    aside from the devs stating the latter is a banable offense obviously, but that's just it.


    Seems like you acknowledge that's a big distinction though.

    my punctuation is horrible.
    aside from the devs stating the latter is a banable offense obviously. But that's just it, we don't know untill the devs come out with a statement....

    Fair enough, but reading through the whole statement, by the end you still seem to come around to the idea that the mods thing is clear cut cheating and addressed as such, while airplane mode is technically a gray area that devs have had plenty of time to address, were they so inclined.

    You're not expressly saying that, but that's how it reads, to me. Am i misinterpreting?
  • Vendi1983
    3490 posts Member
    You can also just force-close the app and not have to constantly switch between airplane mode, etc. Or try to wait for a turn.
  • TVF
    17944 posts Member
    Sometimes you don't get another turn.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Vendi1983
    3490 posts Member
    What I meant was "force closing" avoids both pitfalls. Don't have to use airplane mode. Don't have to wait.
  • TVF
    17944 posts Member
    Ah gotcha. Still dangerous if you aren't fast enough though.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • leef
    13168 posts Member
    snoboredca wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    snoboredca wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    aside from the devs stating the latter is a banable offense obviously, but that's just it.


    Seems like you acknowledge that's a big distinction though.

    my punctuation is horrible.
    aside from the devs stating the latter is a banable offense obviously. But that's just it, we don't know untill the devs come out with a statement....

    Fair enough, but reading through the whole statement, by the end you still seem to come around to the idea that the mods thing is clear cut cheating and addressed as such, while airplane mode is technically a gray area that devs have had plenty of time to address, were they so inclined.

    You're not expressly saying that, but that's how it reads, to me. Am i misinterpreting?

    You're interpreting that correctly.
    My main issue is that we never know if we're being smart or if we're cheating untill the devs come out with a statement. At that point it could already be too late. That just annoys me a bit.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Kyno
    22127 posts Moderator
    leef wrote: »
    i'm with @Bulldog1205 on this one.
    Using airplane mode or even force closing could easily be considered "cheating" under the ToS. What's the difference between using airplane mode and the most recent "exploit" with mods in GA?
    aside from the devs stating the latter is a banable offense obviously, but that's just it. We don't know untill the devs come out with a statement on the matter or patch it like they did with guildhopping. The difference between "gaming the system to gain an advantage" which is considered to be A okay and "Use exploits, cheats, undocumented features, design errors or problems in an EA Service" (direct quote from the ToS, bolded the parts that (potentially) apply to the mod issue and/or using airplane mode) which could lead to account suspension is not very clear at all.
    I don't want to get this thread closed, but the point i'm trying to make obviously applies more to the mod issue than to the airplane mode thingy. Airplane mode is commonly used and very unlikely to be considered "cheating" now or in the future.

    Can you clarify the differences between airplane mode and retreating that would make this an exploit on the level of the mod change?

    Airplane mode ends you in the same place as a retreat. It cannot be used to make the battle easier or bypass the loss counter, or help you bypass any stated mechanics of the game mode.

    The mod exploit allows you to violate the lock that is supposed to be in place, which is stated as a part of this game mode.

    We don't have to go down the road of the mod exploit to hash this out.

    Nothing about airplane mode violates any stated mechanisms in the game. There is also no stated intention of retreat that this is changing or altering.

  • leef
    13168 posts Member
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    What I meant was "force closing" avoids both pitfalls. Don't have to use airplane mode. Don't have to wait.

    force close falls in the same catagory as airplane mode though.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • TVF
    17944 posts Member
    Well my phone force closes the app all the time. Lucky for me it only seems to happen when I'm losing . It's weird.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno
    22127 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Jarvind wrote: »
    Just retreating does the same thing. You put up an L, but the enemy team resets to its initial state.

    This.

    The only additional benefit to airplane mode is that it doesn't need to be your turn to retreat.

    So you are saying it does give you an additional benefit that playing the game the intended way doesn’t provide. Got it.

    Can you provide a statement about this intended way.

    In other case so far where they have stated something was an exploit it violated some mechanic in game or a stated principle. Retreating is an option, but by no means is it the restricted "only way" to exit a battle.
  • leef
    13168 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Jarvind wrote: »
    Just retreating does the same thing. You put up an L, but the enemy team resets to its initial state.

    This.

    The only additional benefit to airplane mode is that it doesn't need to be your turn to retreat.

    So you are saying it does give you an additional benefit that playing the game the intended way doesn’t provide. Got it.

    Can you provide a statement about this intended way.

    In other case so far where they have stated something was an exploit it violated some mechanic in game or a stated principle. Retreating is an option, but by no means is it the restricted "only way" to exit a battle.

    You're basically saying that the mod thingy wasn't an exploit untill they said it was an exploit, which is exactly the issue.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Kyno
    22127 posts Moderator
    leef wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Jarvind wrote: »
    Just retreating does the same thing. You put up an L, but the enemy team resets to its initial state.

    This.

    The only additional benefit to airplane mode is that it doesn't need to be your turn to retreat.

    So you are saying it does give you an additional benefit that playing the game the intended way doesn’t provide. Got it.

    Can you provide a statement about this intended way.

    In other case so far where they have stated something was an exploit it violated some mechanic in game or a stated principle. Retreating is an option, but by no means is it the restricted "only way" to exit a battle.

    You're basically saying that the mod thingy wasn't an exploit untill they said it was an exploit, which is exactly the issue.

    No the mod this is an exploit because there is a stated "lock" with this game modes that is being violated.
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