TW "match" w/26M gp difference?

Prev1
How is that even remotely a match-up?

Replies

  • That's not unheard of. Most of our matchups are about the same and we usually get a win anyway.
  • Slytihline
    8 posts Member
    edited May 10
    Where you see diference?
    I couldnt find my opponents but could it be the join? 9 people didnt join so despite our guild having 160mil we are 2 brackets lower.
  • It depends on active participation, not total GP. We have 111 GP total, but have a lot of people too lazy to participate (only 30 this round), so we usually battle at 76k GP (in the 70-79.9 GP tier).
  • Dk_rek
    3164 posts Member
    Only 26..... that's not bad used to be over 50 at least they reigned that in a little
  • Dblade21
    153 posts Member
    Makes it a little unfair when you're up against a guild that is sandbagging, when they have 35 traya to our 5, and 30 revan to our 10. No wonder they have 57 wins in TW. They leave off their lowest members so that it's a matchup against all 4m accounts.
  • We have a difference of 31 million GP.....but there are only 20 teams per zone so they only had 40 out of 50 join, while we had 49/50....so that's how we got matched up.
    Dblade21 wrote: »
    Makes it a little unfair when you're up against a guild that is sandbagging, when they have 35 traya to our 5, and 30 revan to our 10. No wonder they have 57 wins in TW. They leave off their lowest members so that it's a matchup against all 4m accounts.

    If they have several very low "raid ticket" alt accounts, then sure....but I doubt that people stick around in guilds where they aren't allowed to participate in TW and get the rewards. You really think people are okay with just being told they can't get the zeta/omega/ability mats and the GEC and the guild currency and credits every TW and have to sit on the sidelines? That sounds like a stretch. Now, if they have several sub 1 mil GP alt accounts that are there just to get raid tickets, then ok.
  • Dblade21
    153 posts Member
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  • Dblade21
    153 posts Member
    They are just a loaded guild. Lowest gp in their guild is 2.9m, with an average GP of 3.6m, whereas my guild is an average of 2.5m, with accounts as low as 1.1m
  • Waqui
    5849 posts Member
    How is that even remotely a match-up?
    How is that even remotely a match-up?

    I don't believe there's a 26 million GP difference. Don't compare total GP. Compare active GP only.
  • Kisakee
    505 posts Member
    TW matchmaking is following two simple rules:
    1. Number of members joined - It's always in the same bracket with just one player in difference at maximum, 25-26, 27-28, 29-30 and so on.
    2. Total GP of members joined - Only these are counted, not the wholes guild GP.

    Example: If a guild has 40 members with 3 million GP in average and 30 of them joining it's 30x3 = 90 million GP, the enemies guild will have 29 or 30 players joined with around 90 million GP too. And that's it. Of course one guild can have 15 people with 2 million GP and 15 with 4 million while the other guild has 30 players with 3 million straight. That's still the same in math.
    Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid.
  • Dblade21
    153 posts Member
    Which is why they need to look at more than just numbers and total GP. It creates these mismatches. The should look at average GP (would at least be closer to equal footing) and also match certain toons (revan, DR, CLS, traya, maybe a few other overly strong toons) so that you have fair matches. Guaranteed the front two zones will be a traya wall and a revan wall. We have nowhere enough counters to get through those both. If they made the matchups more even, then it would be more fun. And I've been on the other side of this too. A few TW back, we faced a guild with no revan and no traya. We set all our revan on defense in the front two zones, and they couldn't clear.
  • TVF
    16229 posts Member
    Dblade21 wrote: »
    Makes it a little unfair when you're up against a guild that is sandbagging, when they have 35 traya to our 5, and 30 revan to our 10. No wonder they have 57 wins in TW. They leave off their lowest members so that it's a matchup against all 4m accounts.

    We have 56 wins and never do this.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    16229 posts Member
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TW matchmaking is following two simple rules:
    1. Number of members joined - It's always in the same bracket with just one player in difference at maximum, 25-26, 27-28, 29-30 and so on.
    2. Total GP of members joined - Only these are counted, not the wholes guild GP.

    Example: If a guild has 40 members with 3 million GP in average and 30 of them joining it's 30x3 = 90 million GP, the enemies guild will have 29 or 30 players joined with around 90 million GP too. And that's it. Of course one guild can have 15 people with 2 million GP and 15 with 4 million while the other guild has 30 players with 3 million straight. That's still the same in math.

    The Devs have refused to give exact matchmaking rules so people can't exploit them. #2 is an assumption on your part.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kisakee wrote: »
    TW matchmaking is following two simple rules:
    1. Number of members joined - It's always in the same bracket with just one player in difference at maximum, 25-26, 27-28, 29-30 and so on.
    2. Total GP of members joined - Only these are counted, not the wholes guild GP.

    Example: If a guild has 40 members with 3 million GP in average and 30 of them joining it's 30x3 = 90 million GP, the enemies guild will have 29 or 30 players joined with around 90 million GP too. And that's it. Of course one guild can have 15 people with 2 million GP and 15 with 4 million while the other guild has 30 players with 3 million straight. That's still the same in math.
    @Kisakee your point 1 is false.

    We’re setting 22 per zone (enemy has 43 or 44) and we have 46 signed up.
  • StoemKnight
    24 posts Member
    edited May 12
    Well, in the end, it didn't work out for them. (double clear)vqd2jmcj7eqr.jpg
  • That's not true at all from what this war has shown me. 48 (us) 38 (them) and they have a rediculous advantage on us. Here's their swgoh.gg guild page:
    https://swgoh.gg/g/2603/ksnova-ordemks/

    Here's us:
    https://swgoh.gg/g/53610/lars-family-barbecue/
  • Kisakee
    505 posts Member
    edited May 13
    TVF wrote: »
    The Devs have refused to give exact matchmaking rules so people can't exploit them. #2 is an assumption on your part.

    We faced other guilds below 160 million GP while we where above that threshold. It was counted as a battle in the below 160 million GP bracket, not all of us fought in that TW. For me that pretty much confirms it.
    We’re setting 22 per zone (enemy has 43 or 44) and we have 46 signed up.
    That's not true at all from what this war has shown me. 48 (us) 38 (them) and they have a rediculous advantage on us. Here's their swgoh.gg guild page:
    https://swgoh.gg/g/2603/ksnova-ordemks/

    Here's us:
    https://swgoh.gg/g/53610/lars-family-barbecue/

    I've never seen it before that two guilds were matched with a big difference in total guild GP. It looks like the GP of your 48 people were combines against their combined 38 which confirms my #2, only GP of listed players are counted. But how do you know they were only 38? You got only 19 spots per territory?
    Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid.
  • Kisakee wrote: »
    I've never seen it before that two guilds were matched with a big difference in total guild GP. It looks like the GP of your 48 people were combines against their combined 38 which confirms my #2, only GP of listed players are counted. But how do you know they were only 38? You got only 19 spots per territory?

    Yes, that’s how people know. And it’s been pretty clear for a while now that the signed up GP is how the matchmaking is done.

  • TVF
    16229 posts Member
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    The Devs have refused to give exact matchmaking rules so people can't exploit them. #2 is an assumption on your part.

    We faced other guilds below 160 million GP while we where above that threshold. It was counted as a battle in the below 160 million GP bracket, not all of us fought in that TW. For me that pretty much confirms it.

    There is no matchmaking bracket. There is a rewards bracket that is entirely based on your active GP and has nothing to do with matchmaking. If that confirms it for you, then you are confirmed to be incorrect.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kisakee
    505 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    The Devs have refused to give exact matchmaking rules so people can't exploit them. #2 is an assumption on your part.

    We faced other guilds below 160 million GP while we where above that threshold. It was counted as a battle in the below 160 million GP bracket, not all of us fought in that TW. For me that pretty much confirms it.

    There is no matchmaking bracket. There is a rewards bracket that is entirely based on your active GP and has nothing to do with matchmaking. If that confirms it for you, then you are confirmed to be incorrect.

    So what are we talking about now, the matchmaking or the reward bracket? In our fight with our guild above 160 million GP and the enemy below 160 we got the reward for below the threshold. How does that fit?
    Proof me wrong, i don't care. I want to find out how matchmaking actually works if it's different from what i think it is now.
    Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid.
  • Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    The Devs have refused to give exact matchmaking rules so people can't exploit them. #2 is an assumption on your part.

    We faced other guilds below 160 million GP while we where above that threshold. It was counted as a battle in the below 160 million GP bracket, not all of us fought in that TW. For me that pretty much confirms it.

    There is no matchmaking bracket. There is a rewards bracket that is entirely based on your active GP and has nothing to do with matchmaking. If that confirms it for you, then you are confirmed to be incorrect.

    So what are we talking about now, the matchmaking or the reward bracket? In our fight with our guild above 160 million GP and the enemy below 160 we got the reward for below the threshold. How does that fit?
    Proof me wrong, i don't care. I want to find out how matchmaking actually works if it's different from what i think it is now.

    Did all your guild signup to TW? It doesn’t matter if GP of all 50 members is >160M, it’s only those that sign up that determine your reward bracket.

  • Gonzolo
    42 posts Member
    Rewards and matchmaking are two separate things.
    Reward brackets are based on your signed up gp. If your signed up gp is 139 and your opponents is 141, you’re both fighting the same war for different rewards.
    Matchmaking is also based on your signed up gp apparently, which is why sandbagging has become an issue. We are a 166m guild who got matched with a 215m guild because they only had 3/4 of the guild sign up. One could say it’s laziness or people who didn’t want to play but this is too egregious a difference to be merely malaise. With avg arena ranks below 50, I have a hard time believing that they don’t care about this game mode.
  • Gonzolo
    42 posts Member
    They need more reward tiers to keep this behavior from continuing. To come into a war 50m down is just malicious bullying.
  • TVF
    16229 posts Member
    edited May 13
    Matchmaking is based on multiple parameters, which the devs confirmed they would not fully reveal due to concerns that people would game the system. It is not just a simple GP calculation. You can go find the quotes if you like, there's an entire thread about it.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kisakee
    505 posts Member
    Did all your guild signup to TW? It doesn’t matter if GP of all 50 members is >160M, it’s only those that sign up that determine your reward bracket.

    No, we're usually 5-10 people short which had put us below that 160 threshold at that time.

    So we now have different points of view:
    1. Matchmaking isn't affected by the numbers of people who joined the TW, only the combined GP of all joiners on each side counts
    2. There is no matchmaking bracket, just a reward bracket that counts...
    a. the total GP of each whole guild
    b. only the GP of all joiners combined on each side
    3. Matchmaking and rewards are tied together and affect the enemy you'll face and the reward bracket you'll get
    4. Something else we haven't discovered yet

    #1 seems to be proven by you guys, how about the others?
    Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid.
  • It's 2b for the reward bracket. And 3 is not true. When we were below a reward tier threshold we faced guilds who were above it, and communicated with them on Discord to confirm that they were getting different rewards to us.
  • TVF
    16229 posts Member
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/1822031/#Comment_1822031

    [QUESTION: Minowara] Hello!! Can you provide any clarity on why a more complex TW pairing method is superior to simply matching closely on GP of participating members? Shouldn't GP capture additional factors like # of G12, rosters, etc...?

    [CVG] GP while intended to reflect the overall power of characters doesn't always capture the nuance of good synergies and so while it can be a benchmark for overall power - it is actually not sufficient for something as intricate as matchmaking. Nightsisters are good example of where the GP doesn't reflect the power of the squad.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    16229 posts Member
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/162893/dev-post-matchmaking-clarification-post-3-15/p1

    Matchmaking seeks to create the most fair matchups, with two primary goals in mind:
    The squad power of participating individuals in each guild should be near the same average power.
    The strongest possible squads of both participating guilds should be near the same average power.
    To achieve this, matchmaking uses multiple parameters.
    As a primary consideration, matchmaking identifies the strongest characters/ships expected to be used by each participant in the Territory War and assigns a value to each roster. Then it looks for the single strongest squads and compares them to each other. Matchmaking then aggregates these criteria for the guild and finds the opponent that is most similar.
    Comparing Guild Galactic Power (GP), Active GP, or # of participants can be misleading.
    Rewards are determined solely by Active GP of the participants. Active GP refers to the total Guild Galactic Power of the guild at the time that each person has joined the Territory War. Galactic Power is locked at that point to ensure that matchmaking is calculated off a fixed number and can’t be drastically changed over the course of the Territory War.
    Finally, to promote a variety of opponents, we seek to avoid matching with recently fought opponents, however this can still happen if opponents meeting the above criteria are sparse.
    Thank you all for your great feedback as we continue to improve the Territory Wars feature. As with all areas of the game, we will continue to monitor the feature to ensure it is meeting target design goals.
    CG_RyDiggs
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
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