I could be wrong, but I don't think the OP is trying to make a statement about the have and have nots, the buyers vs non buyers, whales vs guppies or hoarders vs impulsive users. I mean people love to come in and brag that they got X because of Y or without doing Z but let's leave that alone for now. Good for you. I mean that sincerely and not sarcastically. To save or prepare and anticipate takes work and patience. Commendable.
I think the issue here is the impending power creep and now to beat the Dr. Malak (paging Dr. Malak) they will need to come out with a new toon that will have 12 zetas a new faction to synergize with new types of powers whatever and then that toon will be the top of the food chain and and it will continue to marginalize the other characters and we will end up with more vanilla. Then they will need to come out with someone to beat them.
I mean people were complaining that JKR made arena boring and that it was almost all JKR vs JKR and they were long boring battles. But hey at least there was occasionally a CLS, R2, Chewie, HS, 3PO tossed in or a Treya at the top. In my shard the top 23 are currently and have been Dr Malak. Of the top 31 only one is not. Of the top 40 5 are not. I mean that's crazy.
I get that it does not make them money to go back and rework an old toon to make them possibly a viable meta compete. I mean they have been doing reworks and they make things a bit more fun to go back and try new groups say in TW, but I feel like at the pace of power creep they currently have burn out is going to start happening, especially with the spenders. Me. Nah. I used to sweat it, but I play for fun and to kill time. Padme got me frustrated a number of times due to the chaos and randomness so I set the game down and went for a run. Came back to it and tried again when I got bored at work. But this rate of creep can't be sustainable. At least I don't think it can. That's my opinion at least.
To me the problem is they only come out with one over powered toon at a time. I mean they go with a here's 4 new toosn that are meh to meh+ at best. You have to farm these if you want a good toon. So we burn out farming toons we will never really use. Occasionally you get one that is OK. (Queue some one bragging how they always use all the toons and veteran chewie is great.....) Then they release the one. The meta. Hey how about we get a couple good toons? Make them worth farming? Or a maybe a couple toons and a rework all released together as paper rock and scissors. Maybe the release cadence would slow, but it would make things pretty exciting I would think. 3 new meta options? Not 3 metas stacked in the same group, but 3 that make 3 different teams viable and then build on that for the next release. Just a thought.
I am curious as to how Old Republic got the green light from LucasFilm and Disney to basically kick the teeth in of established Star Wars iconic legends like Luke, Palpatine, Kenobi, Anakin etc. And most of all kill their new Flagship characters from Episode 7 & 8 outright and within seconds of the fight starting.
Because Disney gets a portion of the money EA makes off the Star Wars franchise? I mean is this actually a serious question?
Darth Revan and malak aren’t the problem, the problem was the broken Jedi Knight Revan team, they needed to create something that could kill before revived and remove all that pesky foresight.
This is what was created thankfully I have D revan and malak if I didn’t I wouldn’t even bother trying to be competitive.
Meh...people freak out over every new meta and about how it is unbeatable...CLS, Traya, JTR, DR, and then DR/Malak...Padme can beat Malak already and we have not even gotten through all of the GR rework yet.
Obviously you have an arms race issue with a 4 year old game...but I actually think things are getting somewhat calmer.
To me the problem is they only come out with one over powered toon at a time. I mean they go with a here's 4 new toosn that are meh to meh+ at best. You have to farm these if you want a good toon. So we burn out farming toons we will never really use. Occasionally you get one that is OK. (Queue some one bragging how they always use all the toons and veteran chewie is great.....) Then they release the one. The meta. Hey how about we get a couple good toons? Make them worth farming? Or a maybe a couple toons and a rework all released together as paper rock and scissors. Maybe the release cadence would slow, but it would make things pretty exciting I would think. 3 new meta options? Not 3 metas stacked in the same group, but 3 that make 3 different teams viable and then build on that for the next release. Just a thought.
Meta by definition is counter to the concept of rock, scissors, paper...right now, you have a meta (DR Malak) but a bunch of different teams that via for 2nd tier (JTR, DR without Malak, Padme)...so the rock, paper, scissors exist, just not for the top tier team.
Every meta team for the last 3 years or so has been labeled the worst thing to happen to the game or the biggest mistake in the game. The same things were said about Wiggs and Chaze and the Dooku dodge meta back in the day and on and on.
Really? Interesting because in my opinion it is the JKR team that did this. Just my opinion however.
I actually blame Traya.
Her kit was quite an upgrade on everyone else, so that prompted the JRev kit, which was made worse by Jolee, and now we snowball onwards...
Oh, I actually like Traya, worthy of a raid boss reward, not like Revan, chump with a mask.
I can see why some would feel that way. The problem with this comparison however is you don't and won't see any DR or Traya sith team pushing 14m+ in hstr and soloing HAAT.
Is JKR soloing HAAT? I wasn’t aware of that. JTRey is doing those things you mentioned, so does that make her the real problem?
How many JTR's have you seen within the past year up in top 20?
A couple with C3PO. So your problem with JKR is that he’s good at all game modes and not just one or two of them?
My problem with jkr is he's one of those teams that after one uses it why switch to any other team when it's obviously still the best team in the game and most used. I understand power creep and how it is involved but the fact is they went WAAAAY overboard with his kit and now CG is back peddling ways of getting around it. But I don't think this was intentional at all. I think CG testers are just terrible and they didn't see the synergy that would soon take place with gmy/Jolee/GK/Bastila. A well modded jkr team can still beat any team currently in this game and I hate to say it but this will continue to be the case in the future. The farther down JKR's sink in arena, the more older teams are rendered 100% useless and that's a problem.
See I think the problem is not that the testers are horrible, it’s that people demanded this level of power to justify the unprecedented difficulty of unlocking the character the first time around. I believe they actually delayed the kit reveal because GCs or whoever it was were not satisfied with JKR’s dominance initially. People catch on to how these characters are obtained and start preparing, so the devs keep raising the bar on what’s required to get them in order to keep making money, but the people spending that money expect a commensurate increase in the power of the character to allow them to dominate those who don’t get it. I think this cycle really started with CLS (who was both king of arena and the first character capable of soloing a raid all by himself, plus great everywhere else as well), and is extraordinarily difficult to back off from without making people feel like they are wasting their money/resources getting the new shiny thing.
no people demanded the toons.... and they did want the toons to be good. This is a far cry from what we got which was the most ridiculous jump this game has ever seen.... I'm pretty sure they could have been meta without breaking the game which would have held off the kits we have now for another 8-14 months..sure we would have gotten them but would have been more gradual
882 pure F2P unlocked Malak.
Even more unlocked Malak without spending a dime despite spending in the past.
And even more unlocked Darth Revan without spending a dime.
So no, it doesn't have to be credit card vs credit card wars. It is still a resource management game at its core, or rather a resource hoarding game.
Lol really only 882 pure FTP unlocked Malak? This game is played by hundred thousands players if not millions. That is only 0.0xx players unlocked him. I am starting to feel proud of myself xDDDDDDDDDDDDD
I for one hated all the KOTOR toons being released but now that I have DR and malek I am loving the fact I can take 1st everyday with battles lasting barely over a minute......to be top of your arena you need to be in the top 1% of the game. If your not then you have no right to complain. Stop with the crying foul and do what needs to be done to get better.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I’m all about CG making money and pleasing the whales. But what CG and the whales need to understand, is that without the f2p base there’s no reason to whale out. There has to be a balance. It would be like an employer paying next to nothing for tons of labor. Reaping all the benefits for himself. If all his employees leave, what’s he got now? A company that can’t do a single thing. Capitalism works, but like all things, needs checks and balances. And this is coming from someone who missed JKR the first couple times, whales out on DR and got burned on Malak. I have half a team and most days I’m lucky if I crack the top 20. I’ll likely never spend any amount of money again that would make Carrie happy.
- public, direct, blatant nerfs to any theorycrafting or creative thought process to counter this team
This is disingenuous framing if ever I saw it.
You can say they "nerfed" Anakin. If you only look at one update and ignore all context and what his kit used to be and completely discount the very powerful new zeta that he got alongside having one aspect of his unique limited in scope. It's just as accurate to say they buffed Anakin overall in the span of two steps. It was a tune up. Part of a tune up is tuning. Sometimes up, sometimes down. When that tuning process was done, Anakin was much stronger than he had ever been. Anakin was tuned, and that came out to a buff. It is as accurate to say they did not nerf Anakin as it is to say they nerfed Anakin, because there is a larger context at play.
Palpatine, meanwhile, was not nerfed. At all. At any point in the Drevalak release. Palpatine is the exact same as he's been ever since his rework. Malak was buffed, but Palpatine was not nerfed.
In the year and a half prior to the Malak event, there were three really big, meta-defining events. The release of CLS, bringing in titans. The release of Sion, bringing in Nightmare and really pulling the Palp rework together. And the release of Jedi Knight Revan. There were other meta-relevant events like Talzin/Zombie, JTR, Bastila, and Traya, but none of them hit the meta like a meteor in the same way as CLS, Sion, and JKR. Those three teams- Palp lead, CLS, and JKR- have all remained some of the most prominent teams in the game.
So, what teams were really hit by this?
Two were JKR with Anakin and Palp with Devan. In other words, placing the newly reworked Jedi in the most prominent Jedi team in the game's history and placing the new Sith in the most prominent Sith team in the game's history. So zero creative counters lost there. That's no more creative than running Chewie under CLS. What's more, Palpatine has already had four metas, including one of the most hated of all time, and JKR has had the most hated meta of all time for the last six months, so shooting JKR meta part 2 and Palp meta part 5 is an entirely reasonable move. Framing it as an offense against free players is not reasonable.
The third are variants on splashing Anakin in with Nightsisters, most notable in zombie lead. Which while creative, also most clearly demonstrates why Ani as a splash tacnuke with every other faction that has healing/revival prominent in their kits is a clearly unhealthy object in the game. It's the clearest example of why narrowing Ani's faction synergy is a wise move.
For me, the prices in this game are simply too steep. I wouldn’t mind paying some money (I did when I first started), but the thought of $300-$500 for 1 character is insane. One of the better deals I see is the $10 pack for new marquee characters, but 30 shards and gear to get them to g7 is nothing in this game. I get almost the same value when I donate $10 to United Way.
To prevent whales eating all the plankton, I don’t understand why we can’t have more useful, balanced characters along with cheaper prices. $10 should get you one 7* character. It would certainly make modes like TW and GA more compelling to a wider base and probably create more smaller purchases from a larger group of people.
There are two sides to this.
If you decrease the price of things, you increase the power of money, and the game becomes more hostile to free-to-play. If ten bucks gets you a seven star instead of a few hundred, then far more people will buy their way to advantage, and the environment becomes more hostile to people who do not buy advantage.
The more practical way to buy advantage as a modest spender is not packs for the newest marquee character, but rather crystals to speed you along and help you get ahead of the curve.
LOL wish you people would start saying 882 of 2,000,000 or 4,000,000 or 1,000,000 or whatever
Everyone like WOW 882 when in fact that's such a small pathetic percentage of the game it's laughable...
That said I Don't care about this converstation only the 882 nonsense
Malak sucks DR sucks they are horrible for the game...disgusting for the game same with JKR...
but it's not gonna change....we need to start accepting the stupid decisions being made because they not going anywhere
Not 882 out of millions. 882 out of about 15,000.
There are about 15,000 Malaks in the game. 882 of those are gold star free to play. That is a pretty substantial portion. And most of those who got Malak are long-time players, who've been in the game for years. Most players who are with the game that long, even if they don't generally pay, are liable to flip a few bucks in the proverbial tip jar, or spend a holiday gift card on some crystals once upon a time, leaving them basically free to play, but disqualified from being part of that 882.
The vast majority of players- be they paying or free- did not get Malak. That is fine. The majority of players are not supposed to get the newest event character the first time. The expected norm is they release the new event character, those who are in a position to do so farm for said character over the following months, then they get the event character the second or third time they're available. This is not a sleight against anybody. If you are offended that you do not get event characters the first time, your expectations are unreasonable.
Darth Revan & Malak are even more broken in 3v3 Grand Arena. It’s basically a guaranteed win if you have them and your opponent doesn’t.
That is actually an easier win with Padme/GK/Ani than the 5 vs 5 teams. DR/Malik/FB lose the massive damage HK brings so the Padme team can recover fast enough to kill DR and FB. If you land Ani's heal block with his basic on Malik it's an easy win, even against a 7* G12 Malik. If you fail to land the heal block and lose, follow up with a Thrawn team to fracture him then clean up.
And while I agree with the OP on this, it seems to me that CG jumped the shark with JKR. At that point there was no going back so every new meta team is going to have to be over the top with bonuses that improve the entire team while having AOE that cripple or kill the entire opposing team.
I for one hated all the KOTOR toons being released but now that I have DR and malek I am loving the fact I can take 1st everyday with battles lasting barely over a minute......to be top of your arena you need to be in the top 1% of the game. If your not then you have no right to complain. Stop with the crying foul and do what needs to be done to get better.
It’s a good thing you made it through the title of this post before typing your response. Otherwise, you might insulted someone in the wrong thread.
You obviously missed the OP saying this:
“So first off, this isn’t some “woe is me I don’t have Dralak” post. I do have him.”
the revans ruined the diversity and strategyin the game, First jkr with almost no counter, then the crazy dr counter talked about in the op. fun **** out of the game, even if you do own them
Darth Revan & Malak are even more broken in 3v3 Grand Arena. It’s basically a guaranteed win if you have them and your opponent doesn’t.
That is actually an easier win with Padme/GK/Ani than the 5 vs 5 teams. DR/Malik/FB lose the massive damage HK brings so the Padme team can recover fast enough to kill DR and FB. If you land Ani's heal block with his basic on Malik it's an easy win, even against a 7* G12 Malik. If you fail to land the heal block and lose, follow up with a Thrawn team to fracture him then clean up.
And while I agree with the OP on this, it seems to me that CG jumped the shark with JKR. At that point there was no going back so every new meta team is going to have to be over the top with bonuses that improve the entire team while having AOE that cripple or kill the entire opposing team.
JKR can be beaten by 5 teams minimum (DR/Malak, DR, Traya with FBS, Padme GR, and new separatists) and we have not even finished the reworks for GR and separatists.
I for one hated all the KOTOR toons being released but now that I have DR and malek I am loving the fact I can take 1st everyday with battles lasting barely over a minute......to be top of your arena you need to be in the top 1% of the game. If your not then you have no right to complain. Stop with the crying foul and do what needs to be done to get better.
It’s a good thing you made it through the title of this post before typing your response. Otherwise, you might insulted someone in the wrong thread.
You obviously missed the OP saying this:
“So first off, this isn’t some “woe is me I don’t have Dralak” post. I do have him.”
Darth Revan & Malak are even more broken in 3v3 Grand Arena. It’s basically a guaranteed win if you have them and your opponent doesn’t.
That is actually an easier win with Padme/GK/Ani than the 5 vs 5 teams. DR/Malik/FB lose the massive damage HK brings so the Padme team can recover fast enough to kill DR and FB. If you land Ani's heal block with his basic on Malik it's an easy win, even against a 7* G12 Malik. If you fail to land the heal block and lose, follow up with a Thrawn team to fracture him then clean up.
And while I agree with the OP on this, it seems to me that CG jumped the shark with JKR. At that point there was no going back so every new meta team is going to have to be over the top with bonuses that improve the entire team while having AOE that cripple or kill the entire opposing team.
JKR can be beaten by 5 teams minimum (DR/Malak, DR, Traya with FBS, Padme GR, and new separatists) and we have not even finished the reworks for GR and separatists.
I'm not following your argument. None of those teams existing when JKR was released and we all know it's a very beatable team now. I wasn't saying that JKR was still unbeatable. If you are not familiar with the phrase "Jump the Shark", that means they hit a point of no return where they went so extreme (or silly) that they couldn't come back from it. Everything released after it has to be similarly ridiculous.
Replies
I think the issue here is the impending power creep and now to beat the Dr. Malak (paging Dr. Malak) they will need to come out with a new toon that will have 12 zetas a new faction to synergize with new types of powers whatever and then that toon will be the top of the food chain and and it will continue to marginalize the other characters and we will end up with more vanilla. Then they will need to come out with someone to beat them.
I mean people were complaining that JKR made arena boring and that it was almost all JKR vs JKR and they were long boring battles. But hey at least there was occasionally a CLS, R2, Chewie, HS, 3PO tossed in or a Treya at the top. In my shard the top 23 are currently and have been Dr Malak. Of the top 31 only one is not. Of the top 40 5 are not. I mean that's crazy.
I get that it does not make them money to go back and rework an old toon to make them possibly a viable meta compete. I mean they have been doing reworks and they make things a bit more fun to go back and try new groups say in TW, but I feel like at the pace of power creep they currently have burn out is going to start happening, especially with the spenders. Me. Nah. I used to sweat it, but I play for fun and to kill time. Padme got me frustrated a number of times due to the chaos and randomness so I set the game down and went for a run. Came back to it and tried again when I got bored at work. But this rate of creep can't be sustainable. At least I don't think it can. That's my opinion at least.
To me the problem is they only come out with one over powered toon at a time. I mean they go with a here's 4 new toosn that are meh to meh+ at best. You have to farm these if you want a good toon. So we burn out farming toons we will never really use. Occasionally you get one that is OK. (Queue some one bragging how they always use all the toons and veteran chewie is great.....) Then they release the one. The meta. Hey how about we get a couple good toons? Make them worth farming? Or a maybe a couple toons and a rework all released together as paper rock and scissors. Maybe the release cadence would slow, but it would make things pretty exciting I would think. 3 new meta options? Not 3 metas stacked in the same group, but 3 that make 3 different teams viable and then build on that for the next release. Just a thought.
Because Disney gets a portion of the money EA makes off the Star Wars franchise? I mean is this actually a serious question?
Who would be supportive or at least understanding/accepting of a total rework of jkr/dralak?
This is what was created thankfully I have D revan and malak if I didn’t I wouldn’t even bother trying to be competitive.
Obviously you have an arms race issue with a 4 year old game...but I actually think things are getting somewhat calmer.
Meta by definition is counter to the concept of rock, scissors, paper...right now, you have a meta (DR Malak) but a bunch of different teams that via for 2nd tier (JTR, DR without Malak, Padme)...so the rock, paper, scissors exist, just not for the top tier team.
no people demanded the toons.... and they did want the toons to be good. This is a far cry from what we got which was the most ridiculous jump this game has ever seen.... I'm pretty sure they could have been meta without breaking the game which would have held off the kits we have now for another 8-14 months..sure we would have gotten them but would have been more gradual
Lol really only 882 pure FTP unlocked Malak? This game is played by hundred thousands players if not millions. That is only 0.0xx players unlocked him. I am starting to feel proud of myself xDDDDDDDDDDDDD
As do I.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Ah, more ldiotic and unnecessary names. Carry on.
dude.... really.... The names people come up with for toons is prob one the best parts of this game these days...
Jolee Fishto #1 btw
You can say they "nerfed" Anakin. If you only look at one update and ignore all context and what his kit used to be and completely discount the very powerful new zeta that he got alongside having one aspect of his unique limited in scope. It's just as accurate to say they buffed Anakin overall in the span of two steps. It was a tune up. Part of a tune up is tuning. Sometimes up, sometimes down. When that tuning process was done, Anakin was much stronger than he had ever been. Anakin was tuned, and that came out to a buff. It is as accurate to say they did not nerf Anakin as it is to say they nerfed Anakin, because there is a larger context at play.
Palpatine, meanwhile, was not nerfed. At all. At any point in the Drevalak release. Palpatine is the exact same as he's been ever since his rework. Malak was buffed, but Palpatine was not nerfed.
In the year and a half prior to the Malak event, there were three really big, meta-defining events. The release of CLS, bringing in titans. The release of Sion, bringing in Nightmare and really pulling the Palp rework together. And the release of Jedi Knight Revan. There were other meta-relevant events like Talzin/Zombie, JTR, Bastila, and Traya, but none of them hit the meta like a meteor in the same way as CLS, Sion, and JKR. Those three teams- Palp lead, CLS, and JKR- have all remained some of the most prominent teams in the game.
So, what teams were really hit by this?
Two were JKR with Anakin and Palp with Devan. In other words, placing the newly reworked Jedi in the most prominent Jedi team in the game's history and placing the new Sith in the most prominent Sith team in the game's history. So zero creative counters lost there. That's no more creative than running Chewie under CLS. What's more, Palpatine has already had four metas, including one of the most hated of all time, and JKR has had the most hated meta of all time for the last six months, so shooting JKR meta part 2 and Palp meta part 5 is an entirely reasonable move. Framing it as an offense against free players is not reasonable.
The third are variants on splashing Anakin in with Nightsisters, most notable in zombie lead. Which while creative, also most clearly demonstrates why Ani as a splash tacnuke with every other faction that has healing/revival prominent in their kits is a clearly unhealthy object in the game. It's the clearest example of why narrowing Ani's faction synergy is a wise move. There are two sides to this.
If you decrease the price of things, you increase the power of money, and the game becomes more hostile to free-to-play. If ten bucks gets you a seven star instead of a few hundred, then far more people will buy their way to advantage, and the environment becomes more hostile to people who do not buy advantage.
The more practical way to buy advantage as a modest spender is not packs for the newest marquee character, but rather crystals to speed you along and help you get ahead of the curve. Not 882 out of millions. 882 out of about 15,000.
There are about 15,000 Malaks in the game. 882 of those are gold star free to play. That is a pretty substantial portion. And most of those who got Malak are long-time players, who've been in the game for years. Most players who are with the game that long, even if they don't generally pay, are liable to flip a few bucks in the proverbial tip jar, or spend a holiday gift card on some crystals once upon a time, leaving them basically free to play, but disqualified from being part of that 882.
The vast majority of players- be they paying or free- did not get Malak. That is fine. The majority of players are not supposed to get the newest event character the first time. The expected norm is they release the new event character, those who are in a position to do so farm for said character over the following months, then they get the event character the second or third time they're available. This is not a sleight against anybody. If you are offended that you do not get event characters the first time, your expectations are unreasonable. Even people who say they want that would probably riot if it actually happened. It's the team consisting of Devan, Jaws, Karen, Actually A Doombot, and Matt the Radar Technician. In other words, you are doing extremely well and you're in the top fraction of a percent of the playerbase.
That is actually an easier win with Padme/GK/Ani than the 5 vs 5 teams. DR/Malik/FB lose the massive damage HK brings so the Padme team can recover fast enough to kill DR and FB. If you land Ani's heal block with his basic on Malik it's an easy win, even against a 7* G12 Malik. If you fail to land the heal block and lose, follow up with a Thrawn team to fracture him then clean up.
And while I agree with the OP on this, it seems to me that CG jumped the shark with JKR. At that point there was no going back so every new meta team is going to have to be over the top with bonuses that improve the entire team while having AOE that cripple or kill the entire opposing team.
https://swgoh.gg/u/rwtdBurn/
It’s a good thing you made it through the title of this post before typing your response. Otherwise, you might insulted someone in the wrong thread.
You obviously missed the OP saying this:
“So first off, this isn’t some “woe is me I don’t have Dralak” post. I do have him.”
JKR can be beaten by 5 teams minimum (DR/Malak, DR, Traya with FBS, Padme GR, and new separatists) and we have not even finished the reworks for GR and separatists.
Statements don't have to apply to just the OP.
Gear and other resources are ready to deploy.
They have to be good though.
agree. jkr was 1st mistake and its caused domino effect...
I'm not following your argument. None of those teams existing when JKR was released and we all know it's a very beatable team now. I wasn't saying that JKR was still unbeatable. If you are not familiar with the phrase "Jump the Shark", that means they hit a point of no return where they went so extreme (or silly) that they couldn't come back from it. Everything released after it has to be similarly ridiculous.
https://swgoh.gg/u/rwtdBurn/