You Sure You Want Diversity in the Meta?

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Gifafi
6017 posts Member
edited June 2019
peeps have been asking about getting more viable top teams (at least how I read it), but have they thought it through?

You want x to beat y, y to beat z, z to beat a, rinse-repeat, afaict.

Have you thought about how many great mods you will need? I mean this is already an issue with tb (the best pve in the game), ok tw, terrible ga, etc. For ex. jkr teams need speed, offense for gmy, health for jolee etc. Dkr squads need speed (x infinity), offense for hk, etc. And so on. If you need a whole bunch of top teams you will need mods for each, as opposed to being able to put your best mods on your arena team (yes, arena, here's a reason people say "put arena mods on" to help others complete events like c3po etc. dealwithit.gif).

and then there's the current speed meta. People complained about the jkr meta, but at least there you could win without the fastest mods. Same with traya before that. Now the top teams have 320 dkr and 310 dbast. As others have said, farm more mods. However, while your chances of getting better mods, esp. speed, go up the more you farm them, I don't think people are looking at the numbers. you can farm hundreds of mods, but, for example:

speed mods. to be faster you need speed mods, which are 1/6 types. You need to fill 4 of the 6 slots with those specific mods. You need to not only get 1/6 types in 4/6 slots, but they each need to roll speed 4 times plus slicing. Not to mention all the other types of mods like potency etc also need to have speed, beyond the very very few characters that don't need it.

That's not flipping a coin and getting heads 5 times in a row, it's flipping and getting heads 5 times in a row, on a tuesday, in the 3 week, of even-numbered months. at night. in a leap year. Then do it all again times 4-5 meta teams. People are acting like just farming more mods is enough. And I get that more = more, duh.

and that's not even adressing how they need to be 6e, and your crew members need those for ships, and you can't place them back on g11 once they're 6e, etc

It just makes no sense for a game to have a meta-defining thing to be based on luck (and yes, that's what it is based on. again, more tries = more tries, we get it, but see above). I'm not really saying there is a solution, per se, at this point, I'm just saying that..idk, this issue sucks. lol
Thoughts?
tl;dr: be careful what you wish for. Mods be hard, and I feel the need, the need for speed (also, I say etc too much itt)

ps. I really do feel like whoever came up with the mod system is a sadist. I mean, 6 shapes, with 8 set types, with some 4x4, some 2x2 for bonuses, with 11 different primaries, and 12 different secondaries that each can roll up to 5 times, some with flat and others with %...I mean, a (swiss-watchmaking- mathematician and george rr martin)'s genius chessmaster kid who completely understands the Dune books would think that's convoluted (edited for clarity: it's their kid. who is smart and gets complicated things ldo)


pps. SPOILERS:




rip goose

//new character ability description
Maybe End Game isn't for you

Replies

  • TVF
    36518 posts Member
    All I know is I'm happy with the current meta because I've never been a part of one first run. So no, I don't want diversity.

    Ask me next meta.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    I actually think the issue is the opposite, because speed mods are often most important in mirror matches. In a true RPS environment that people claim to want, mods may not be very important at all. If team X can really consistently stomp team Y it can likely do so even without as good mods. That means every joker that can get Rock will be able to climb over the Scissors teams with no need to invest in the more difficult to obtain Scissors and Paper teams and no need for great mods, and it would result in no real way for people to differentiate themselves from each other and remain at the top.
  • Scuttlebutt
    1190 posts Member
    Diversity in the meta would mean that you don’t necessarily need the best mods to move up the ranks. JKR mirror matches are awful to play (from an enjoyment standpoint). I’ve read that DR/Malak team mirror matches are determined by who has the fastest mods. That doesn’t sound fun either. It would be nice to use strategy to compose a team to beat the matchups I see in front of me rather than compose a team of who CG has determined will be best for the next 3-6 months.

    On the topic of mods, when it comes to getting the fastest possible mods, those of us that didn’t invest heavily pre-mods 2.0 will be forever at a disadvantage for getting high speed secondaries. It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    So if we’re voting, I vote yes to diversity in the meta.
  • Scuttlebutt
    1190 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    I actually think the issue is the opposite, because speed mods are often most important in mirror matches. In a true RPS environment that people claim to want, mods may not be very important at all. If team X can really consistently stomp team Y it can likely do so even without as good mods. That means every joker that can get Rock will be able to climb over the Scissors teams with no need to invest in the more difficult to obtain Scissors and Paper teams and no need for great mods, and it would result in no real way for people to differentiate themselves from each other and remain at the top.

    Yes, but rock would be an easy target for paper teams, so they would fall quickly too. Most likely it will mean everyone has to use more attacks to get to the top.
  • Jubai
    112 posts Member
    I'm positive I want it, better that than constant mirror matchs which is like watching paint dry
  • Diversity won’t be created by a rock/paper/scissors set of teams. It needs true diversity of teams that can compete at the top levels. If a JKR team could have beaten maybe 3 top teams, but been beaten by 5 teams, then it still would have been in the Arena, but not the only team people played. That wouldn’t have sold though, because who wants to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a team that will only win some of the time.

    It’s why CG are pushing GA so hard. Single squad arenas are often the downfall of games that get large rosters. You end up seeing characters you invested heavily in sitting dormant while you move to the next team. Eventually it wears on people and they go looking for their next game. GA changes that by giving people a chance to go back to previous teams and play them again, but it still allows CG to sell content to players who want to be the top of the pile. It also allows them to separate us into more competitive groupings, which also drives sales.

    GA is where they’ll try and give us diversity, not arena. I suspect if they could drop arena for GA, they’d be think long and hard about doing it.
  • TVF
    36518 posts Member
    I am positive I want a diverse meta. I'm also one of the few who would like the AI to be more challenging but neither look like they will happen so one can only hope.

    If there's anything that's guaranteed to set the forum on fire it would be for people to suddenly start losing matches they were previously winning.

    Which is why I kinda support this idea. Fires are entertaining.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • What if they mitigated or removed speed from mods altogether? Not sure if that would actually help but it would throw a wrench in things (and probably incite rage in all those people who got heads five times in a row, on a Tuesday, on the 3rd week of even numbered months...)

    Or what about a new mod stat? "Slow". Slows the opposing team down. Would be arena only. Instead of loading up speed you could just slow them down 😝.
  • On the topic of mods, when it comes to getting the fastest possible mods, those of us that didn’t invest heavily pre-mods 2.0 will be forever at a disadvantage for getting high speed secondaries. It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    I don't think this is true. I didn't have any mods with +20 speed secondaries before mods 2.0, and now I have about a dozen of them, including one +26 speed secondary. The ability to slice mods has made it much easier to acquire high speed secondaries imo.
  • Scuttlebutt
    1190 posts Member
    Diversity won’t be created by a rock/paper/scissors set of teams. It needs true diversity of teams that can compete at the top levels. If a JKR team could have beaten maybe 3 top teams, but been beaten by 5 teams, then it still would have been in the Arena, but not the only team people played. That wouldn’t have sold though, because who wants to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a team that will only win some of the time.

    It’s why CG are pushing GA so hard. Single squad arenas are often the downfall of games that get large rosters. You end up seeing characters you invested heavily in sitting dormant while you move to the next team. Eventually it wears on people and they go looking for their next game. GA changes that by giving people a chance to go back to previous teams and play them again, but it still allows CG to sell content to players who want to be the top of the pile. It also allows them to separate us into more competitive groupings, which also drives sales.

    GA is where they’ll try and give us diversity, not arena. I suspect if they could drop arena for GA, they’d be think long and hard about doing it.

    Yes and no. The problem that I’m seeing is that they are trying to manage/maintain both at the same time. If you want 1 dominant squad in arena, it makes it difficult to transition to GA because that 1 dominant team will typically determine an entire GA match.

    The reverse if difficult to manage too because giving a new meta team too many counters would mean that older teams will start to show up in great numbers at the top of arena.

    It doesn’t feel like you can have both.

    To your comment about not selling, though, I’ve seen games that had a very diverse arena system where top teams are composed of all sorts of different characters. New characters would sell quickly and older characters would be combined with new ones to make a variety of teams. It’s possible, but CG is not working in that direction.
  • TVF
    36518 posts Member
    On the topic of mods, when it comes to getting the fastest possible mods, those of us that didn’t invest heavily pre-mods 2.0 will be forever at a disadvantage for getting high speed secondaries. It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    I don't think this is true. I didn't have any mods with +20 speed secondaries before mods 2.0, and now I have about a dozen of them, including one +26 speed secondary. The ability to slice mods has made it much easier to acquire high speed secondaries imo.

    It's not true.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Scuttlebutt
    1190 posts Member
    On the topic of mods, when it comes to getting the fastest possible mods, those of us that didn’t invest heavily pre-mods 2.0 will be forever at a disadvantage for getting high speed secondaries. It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    I don't think this is true. I didn't have any mods with +20 speed secondaries before mods 2.0, and now I have about a dozen of them, including one +26 speed secondary. The ability to slice mods has made it much easier to acquire high speed secondaries imo.

    Lol well you’re just lucky. But math would show you it’s different now. My comment was related to how they changed leveling up mods. Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed secondary showing at level 1 was more likely to upgrade speed than a grey one. Now they’re all equal.
  • TVF
    36518 posts Member
    On the topic of mods, when it comes to getting the fastest possible mods, those of us that didn’t invest heavily pre-mods 2.0 will be forever at a disadvantage for getting high speed secondaries. It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    I don't think this is true. I didn't have any mods with +20 speed secondaries before mods 2.0, and now I have about a dozen of them, including one +26 speed secondary. The ability to slice mods has made it much easier to acquire high speed secondaries imo.

    Lol well you’re just lucky. But math would show you it’s different now. My comment was related to how they changed leveling up mods. Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed secondary showing at level 1 was more likely to upgrade speed than a grey one. Now they’re all equal.

    I feel like you might not understand how mods work now vs then.

    Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed showing had a 50% chance to upgrade each of two attempts. Now it has a 25% chance each attempt, so you're correct there. However, a blue mod was limited to those two attempts. It could never become a +20 mod. Now you can take that +15 mod and slice it twice to get it over 20. The floor was higher but the ceiling was lower.

    My best mods have all come from 2.0.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    36518 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    On the topic of mods, when it comes to getting the fastest possible mods, those of us that didn’t invest heavily pre-mods 2.0 will be forever at a disadvantage for getting high speed secondaries. It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    I don't think this is true. I didn't have any mods with +20 speed secondaries before mods 2.0, and now I have about a dozen of them, including one +26 speed secondary. The ability to slice mods has made it much easier to acquire high speed secondaries imo.

    It's not true.

    What in the world is going on here? I think we may have found 2 things we could agree on my fellow forum Marauder.

    There's hope for you yet!
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • That’s the advantage of the GA. Players wanting to be at the top will pay for that dominant team. Those that can’t or won’t spend, will not have to face them (at least for long) because they’ll rise up to the next tier. It’s not ideal as people will feel left behind as others move up, but CG ultimately has to focus on the money. If you won’t pay, then they’ll give you a similar experience at a lower level.

    For those rising up, they’ll be facing players who also have the newer meta team. For them, other teams will become important again as they’ll be in a place where their special meta team can be countered. Having other strong teams will be the deciding factor, and since those teams are no longer meta, CG can rework them to give them new life. If the reworks suddenly give a team a new viability in the GA or TW, it’s not a deal breaker for their income, because the big spenders investment is still protected in arena.

    I’ve also played games with a range of teams in their arena, but most have failed as their character roster grew and unintended interactions made certain characters more dominant. This lead to them releasing overpowered characters to overcome others and eventually the arena became stale. This is similar to what CG is experiencing in this game. Since balancing the characters is becoming harder for them, I think they’re looking for a new option where one broken team doesn’t define the experience.

    Ultimately though, I agree with the original poster that people aren’t thinking through what they’re asking. They clearly don’t want to do mirror matches over and over in battle, but I’m pretty sure they also don’t want to see their shiny new team beat by a team three years old.
  • Scuttlebutt
    1190 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    On the topic of mods, when it comes to getting the fastest possible mods, those of us that didn’t invest heavily pre-mods 2.0 will be forever at a disadvantage for getting high speed secondaries. It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    I don't think this is true. I didn't have any mods with +20 speed secondaries before mods 2.0, and now I have about a dozen of them, including one +26 speed secondary. The ability to slice mods has made it much easier to acquire high speed secondaries imo.

    Lol well you’re just lucky. But math would show you it’s different now. My comment was related to how they changed leveling up mods. Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed secondary showing at level 1 was more likely to upgrade speed than a grey one. Now they’re all equal.

    I feel like you might not understand how mods work now vs then.

    Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed showing had a 50% chance to upgrade each of two attempts. Now it has a 25% chance each attempt, so you're correct there. However, a blue mod was limited to those two attempts. It could never become a +20 mod. Now you can take that +15 mod and slice it twice to get it over 20. The floor was higher but the ceiling was lower.

    My best mods have all come from 2.0.

    I feel like you’re not thinking holistically. Assuming you didn’t sell all of your mods from prior to 2.0, a blue mod from 1.0 is more likely to have a higher speed than a blue mod from 2.0. When you slice mods, chances of increasing speed from there are equal.

    You may have sliced to get your best mods, but were you slicing 1.0 or 2.0 mods?
  • TVF
    36518 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    On the topic of mods, when it comes to getting the fastest possible mods, those of us that didn’t invest heavily pre-mods 2.0 will be forever at a disadvantage for getting high speed secondaries. It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    I don't think this is true. I didn't have any mods with +20 speed secondaries before mods 2.0, and now I have about a dozen of them, including one +26 speed secondary. The ability to slice mods has made it much easier to acquire high speed secondaries imo.

    Lol well you’re just lucky. But math would show you it’s different now. My comment was related to how they changed leveling up mods. Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed secondary showing at level 1 was more likely to upgrade speed than a grey one. Now they’re all equal.

    I feel like you might not understand how mods work now vs then.

    Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed showing had a 50% chance to upgrade each of two attempts. Now it has a 25% chance each attempt, so you're correct there. However, a blue mod was limited to those two attempts. It could never become a +20 mod. Now you can take that +15 mod and slice it twice to get it over 20. The floor was higher but the ceiling was lower.

    My best mods have all come from 2.0.

    I feel like you’re not thinking holistically. Assuming you didn’t sell all of your mods from prior to 2.0, a blue mod from 1.0 is more likely to have a higher speed than a blue mod from 2.0. When you slice mods, chances of increasing speed from there are equal.

    You may have sliced to get your best mods, but were you slicing 1.0 or 2.0 mods?

    Both of course. But my best mods have all come recently, so 2.0 mods. There was a finite period of time where we knew 2.0 was coming but it wasn't active. Therefore there is a finite number of mods that we farmed from 1.0 and sliced under 2.0. Unless you spent tons of money to buy as many mods as you could during that short period, your holistic approach is irrelevant.

    The (potential) best mods were ones you farmed under 1.0 and sliced under 2.0. But that's a tiny minority of the total mods you would have farmed.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Mirkraag
    509 posts Member
    It is so obvious that it is for the interest of the company to only have 1 dominant meta that people have to spend to acquire. Much more easy business model for lazy game design.
    I get that but what I dont get is their needs to say that they want diversity bla bla bla and so on. What is the point of such obvious lies ??
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    I actually think the issue is the opposite, because speed mods are often most important in mirror matches. In a true RPS environment that people claim to want, mods may not be very important at all. If team X can really consistently stomp team Y it can likely do so even without as good mods. That means every joker that can get Rock will be able to climb over the Scissors teams with no need to invest in the more difficult to obtain Scissors and Paper teams and no need for great mods, and it would result in no real way for people to differentiate themselves from each other and remain at the top.

    Yes, but rock would be an easy target for paper teams, so they would fall quickly too. Most likely it will mean everyone has to use more attacks to get to the top.

    Sure, everyone would fall a lot more. Which is not necessarily a good thing, at least for those who have made the effort to reach the top in the current environment.

    The thing is... Rock Paper Scissors only even qualifies as a game because you don't know in advance what your opponent is going to choose. Here, where you see your choices of opponents and decide what to fight against and with before the match starts, there isn't actually any strategy involved in saying "hey, there's a rock team, I'm going to bring paper." It's like playing RPS against a child that thinks rocks are the greatest thing ever and always picks rock no matter what.
  • Scuttlebutt
    1190 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    I actually think the issue is the opposite, because speed mods are often most important in mirror matches. In a true RPS environment that people claim to want, mods may not be very important at all. If team X can really consistently stomp team Y it can likely do so even without as good mods. That means every joker that can get Rock will be able to climb over the Scissors teams with no need to invest in the more difficult to obtain Scissors and Paper teams and no need for great mods, and it would result in no real way for people to differentiate themselves from each other and remain at the top.

    Yes, but rock would be an easy target for paper teams, so they would fall quickly too. Most likely it will mean everyone has to use more attacks to get to the top.

    Sure, everyone would fall a lot more. Which is not necessarily a good thing, at least for those who have made the effort to reach the top in the current environment.

    The thing is... Rock Paper Scissors only even qualifies as a game because you don't know in advance what your opponent is going to choose. Here, where you see your choices of opponents and decide what to fight against and with before the match starts, there isn't actually any strategy involved in saying "hey, there's a rock team, I'm going to bring paper." It's like playing RPS against a child that thinks rocks are the greatest thing ever and always picks rock no matter what.

    To your first point, this assumes that people that are not in the shard chat and have not historically been at the top of the arena are not putting in an effort to be at the top. There are many people putting in that effort that are blocked by bad game design and things outside the game that they have very little control over. CG forcing you to buy a set of characters to be on top of the arena is not good game design...it just makes it a p2w game.

    And even to that point, I compete in the top 200 and usually make the top 100 in my shard. Because I’m using JKR, I have to skip around all of the DR/Malak teams that I see. My situation aside, have all of those people with DR/Malak not put in an investment to be at the top?

    To your second point, I hadn’t thought about the blind matching in RPS. That’s a good point and to implement here would probably require not being able to see your opponent’s team. Although as is, you would still gamble that using a rock team to beat scissors would leave you exposed to any paper teams just under you.
  • It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    It takes much LESS farming now to get a +25 secondary because you have multiple paths to take to get there - not just hope for a Gold mod with speed that rolls speed four times. So your statement couldn't be more wrong.

    If you wanted to point out that players that invested in mods heavily pre 2.0 had a better base stock of mods to upgrade, then yes, very true. If you wanted to point out that Green and Blue mods in 1.0 that showed speed are more valuable than they are today, then yes, no argument.

    But to say that it was easier to get a +25 (even +20) mod in 1.0 days is just patently absurd.

    And I am in no way defending the mods system. One of my favorite things to do when I want to feel like I'm getting screwed is to compare the ratio of +10/+15/+20 mods to other players. The ratio of +20s to +10s tells you a little bit about how lucky some players are in splicing mods.
  • TVF
    36518 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    On the topic of mods, when it comes to getting the fastest possible mods, those of us that didn’t invest heavily pre-mods 2.0 will be forever at a disadvantage for getting high speed secondaries. It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    I don't think this is true. I didn't have any mods with +20 speed secondaries before mods 2.0, and now I have about a dozen of them, including one +26 speed secondary. The ability to slice mods has made it much easier to acquire high speed secondaries imo.

    Lol well you’re just lucky. But math would show you it’s different now. My comment was related to how they changed leveling up mods. Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed secondary showing at level 1 was more likely to upgrade speed than a grey one. Now they’re all equal.

    I feel like you might not understand how mods work now vs then.

    Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed showing had a 50% chance to upgrade each of two attempts. Now it has a 25% chance each attempt, so you're correct there. However, a blue mod was limited to those two attempts. It could never become a +20 mod. Now you can take that +15 mod and slice it twice to get it over 20. The floor was higher but the ceiling was lower.

    My best mods have all come from 2.0.

    I feel like you’re not thinking holistically. Assuming you didn’t sell all of your mods from prior to 2.0, a blue mod from 1.0 is more likely to have a higher speed than a blue mod from 2.0. When you slice mods, chances of increasing speed from there are equal.

    You may have sliced to get your best mods, but were you slicing 1.0 or 2.0 mods?

    @Scuttlebutt I answered your question but spam filter ate it. Waiting on a mod to restore it.

    Short answer is your holistic approach is misguided.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Scuttlebutt
    1190 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    On the topic of mods, when it comes to getting the fastest possible mods, those of us that didn’t invest heavily pre-mods 2.0 will be forever at a disadvantage for getting high speed secondaries. It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    I don't think this is true. I didn't have any mods with +20 speed secondaries before mods 2.0, and now I have about a dozen of them, including one +26 speed secondary. The ability to slice mods has made it much easier to acquire high speed secondaries imo.

    Lol well you’re just lucky. But math would show you it’s different now. My comment was related to how they changed leveling up mods. Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed secondary showing at level 1 was more likely to upgrade speed than a grey one. Now they’re all equal.

    I feel like you might not understand how mods work now vs then.

    Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed showing had a 50% chance to upgrade each of two attempts. Now it has a 25% chance each attempt, so you're correct there. However, a blue mod was limited to those two attempts. It could never become a +20 mod. Now you can take that +15 mod and slice it twice to get it over 20. The floor was higher but the ceiling was lower.

    My best mods have all come from 2.0.

    I feel like you’re not thinking holistically. Assuming you didn’t sell all of your mods from prior to 2.0, a blue mod from 1.0 is more likely to have a higher speed than a blue mod from 2.0. When you slice mods, chances of increasing speed from there are equal.

    You may have sliced to get your best mods, but were you slicing 1.0 or 2.0 mods?

    @Scuttlebutt I answered your question but spam filter ate it. Waiting on a mod to restore it.

    Short answer is your holistic approach is misguided.

    How so? A green mod in 1.0 with speed secondary had a guaranteed speed increase. If you had 100 of those going into 2.0 and I had none, I would then need to farm 400 green mods that started with a speed secondary before I could reasonably expect to have 100 that rolled speed on upgrade.

    Once we get into slicing, all mods are equal, so you get a head start in getting high speed secondaries.
  • Bulldog1205
    3573 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    On the topic of mods, when it comes to getting the fastest possible mods, those of us that didn’t invest heavily pre-mods 2.0 will be forever at a disadvantage for getting high speed secondaries. It takes much more farming now to get +25 speed secondaries (I still don’t have 1 despite the thousands I’ve farmed/collected).

    I don't think this is true. I didn't have any mods with +20 speed secondaries before mods 2.0, and now I have about a dozen of them, including one +26 speed secondary. The ability to slice mods has made it much easier to acquire high speed secondaries imo.

    Lol well you’re just lucky. But math would show you it’s different now. My comment was related to how they changed leveling up mods. Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed secondary showing at level 1 was more likely to upgrade speed than a grey one. Now they’re all equal.

    I feel like you might not understand how mods work now vs then.

    Prior to 2.0, a blue mod with speed showing had a 50% chance to upgrade each of two attempts. Now it has a 25% chance each attempt, so you're correct there. However, a blue mod was limited to those two attempts. It could never become a +20 mod. Now you can take that +15 mod and slice it twice to get it over 20. The floor was higher but the ceiling was lower.

    My best mods have all come from 2.0.

    I feel like you’re not thinking holistically. Assuming you didn’t sell all of your mods from prior to 2.0, a blue mod from 1.0 is more likely to have a higher speed than a blue mod from 2.0. When you slice mods, chances of increasing speed from there are equal.

    You may have sliced to get your best mods, but were you slicing 1.0 or 2.0 mods?

    @Scuttlebutt I answered your question but spam filter ate it. Waiting on a mod to restore it.

    Short answer is your holistic approach is misguided.

    He’s right though. In terms of achieving max speed, a blue/green/purple 1.0 mod showing speed is more valuable than any mod we can currently get today, assuming you leveled it up back then. This is my absolute biggest complaint I’ve ever had about this game, because those of us who went on the quest for the 20+ speed mods in 1.0 and focused almost exclusively on gold mods really got screwed. We spent more resources in search of something that turned out to be less valuable in the long run.
  • Rake6
    442 posts Member
    Not gonna read it.
  • Bulldog1205
    3573 posts Member
    Rake6 wrote: »
    Not gonna read it.

    Huh? Then why did you open the thread and reply?
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    I'm confused on the convoluted end metaphore. Whose kid is it? Is that you @Gifafi ? Completely lost xD
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