Remove mod slicing weighting toward Defense

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Replies

  • Ravifer
    52 posts Member
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Ravifer wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Ravifer wrote: »

    I still feel, though, that when someone posts with what they think is not working as intended in their opinion, people should repply with their own personal experience to prove them wrong rather than simply questioning what they are saying.

    And, asking for some data sheet... well, I can make one for you right now with whichever data I would like to transmit, so it is not a valid option for me either.

    Posting on the forum about something is not to be questioned or asked to prove (we can all proove what we want, since noone really knos if the proof we give is real or not), but rather to hear about other peoples personal experiences to see if it is a wider thing or just a personal or bad luck one.

    So, I feel unlucky with mods. If 30 people comment to say that they do feel it is close to 25%, then I would feel that either I am unlucky or time will sort it out in the long run, because it is hard to make 30 people make up data when they probably dont even knoe each other.

    I think that is all this post needed, istead of questioning what the person said at the beginning.

    People's feelings are in no way an accurate indication of actual percentages, so if you want to make a case you basically have to track your drops/speed increases.
    Lets say for example you slice 12 mods, the first 2 hit speed, the next 9 don't and the last one does. That's 1/4 hitting speed total, but for the last 10 it's only 1/10. Do you reckon that a player experiences that as "normal" or unlucky?

    Hopefully as normal. As long as its a dedicated player, 12 slices will be done within a week, so its hard not to take all into consideration. Unlucky is when you go on 2 or 3 weeks of slicing with 0-2 speed going up. To even that out, you would need a very lucky week, and believe me, you would also remember that!

    2 or 3 weeks of slicing is a duration.
    0 to 2 speed going up is a quantity.

    I'm not sure how to compare these. If you sliced 5 mods in 2-3 weeks then 0-2 going up is ok. If you sliced 200 mods in 2-3 weeks then it's pretty miserable.

    Also, to extend leef's example. Someone that goes 2/2 then 0/10 is much more likely to remember the 0/10 than the combined 2/12. They're also unlikely to notice/remember the following 1/5, 0/5, 2/5, 2/5 stretch that is combined 5/20 or 25%. That's why people are asking for data. Because the human brain is very selective in what it remembers.

    Edit for typos

    Like I said. A dedicated player will slice 12 mods a week (not 5, nor 200). So I am talking about 24 to 36 slices in a 2-3 week period. That is how you compare the example I gave with the data I gave.

    I do however, kind of agree with your second statement to some degree.
  • TVF
    14956 posts Member
    A dedicated player will slice 12 mods a week?

    I may have missed the context, so my bad if I did. But a smart player will slice the right mods. Depending on your luck and your dedication to farming, that could be 30 mods. But it also could be zero.
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  • jhbuchholz
    1533 posts Member
    Ravifer wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Ravifer wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Ravifer wrote: »

    I still feel, though, that when someone posts with what they think is not working as intended in their opinion, people should repply with their own personal experience to prove them wrong rather than simply questioning what they are saying.

    And, asking for some data sheet... well, I can make one for you right now with whichever data I would like to transmit, so it is not a valid option for me either.

    Posting on the forum about something is not to be questioned or asked to prove (we can all proove what we want, since noone really knos if the proof we give is real or not), but rather to hear about other peoples personal experiences to see if it is a wider thing or just a personal or bad luck one.

    So, I feel unlucky with mods. If 30 people comment to say that they do feel it is close to 25%, then I would feel that either I am unlucky or time will sort it out in the long run, because it is hard to make 30 people make up data when they probably dont even knoe each other.

    I think that is all this post needed, istead of questioning what the person said at the beginning.

    People's feelings are in no way an accurate indication of actual percentages, so if you want to make a case you basically have to track your drops/speed increases.
    Lets say for example you slice 12 mods, the first 2 hit speed, the next 9 don't and the last one does. That's 1/4 hitting speed total, but for the last 10 it's only 1/10. Do you reckon that a player experiences that as "normal" or unlucky?

    Hopefully as normal. As long as its a dedicated player, 12 slices will be done within a week, so its hard not to take all into consideration. Unlucky is when you go on 2 or 3 weeks of slicing with 0-2 speed going up. To even that out, you would need a very lucky week, and believe me, you would also remember that!

    2 or 3 weeks of slicing is a duration.
    0 to 2 speed going up is a quantity.

    I'm not sure how to compare these. If you sliced 5 mods in 2-3 weeks then 0-2 going up is ok. If you sliced 200 mods in 2-3 weeks then it's pretty miserable.

    Also, to extend leef's example. Someone that goes 2/2 then 0/10 is much more likely to remember the 0/10 than the combined 2/12. They're also unlikely to notice/remember the following 1/5, 0/5, 2/5, 2/5 stretch that is combined 5/20 or 25%. That's why people are asking for data. Because the human brain is very selective in what it remembers.

    Edit for typos

    Like I said. A dedicated player will slice 12 mods a week (not 5, nor 200). So I am talking about 24 to 36 slices in a 2-3 week period. That is how you compare the example I gave with the data I gave.

    I do however, kind of agree with your second statement to some degree.

    I admit that I kind of missed the statement that a dedicated player will slice 12 mods per week. Likely because it's a random correlation. When I'm slicing mods (I regularly run out of mods to slice) I do well more than 12 a week and I'd call myself a dedicated player.

    It still would have been clearer to combine the two numbers and simply say 0-2 rolls over 36 slices.
  • Ravifer
    52 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    A dedicated player will slice 12 mods a week?

    I may have missed the context, so my bad if I did. But a smart player will slice the right mods. Depending on your luck and your dedication to farming, that could be 30 mods. But it also could be zero.

    Dedicated vs smart. lol. Like I said, I slice a lot, not that I was clever about it ;)

    Anyway, I do believe you guys have a point on:

    - People who write are usually those who feel "unlucky" or that the increase probability is not the same when it comes to speed. Not that many people write, so guess the average player is getting that 25% chance or close to it.
    - Even people who post might do it after a bad experience... not 2/12 as you posted cause that is nowhere close to 25%!, but a 2/2 and the 0/6 might be a good example, as it can lead to 2/2, 0/12, 2/2 and still be at 25%).
  • leef
    12639 posts Member
    Ravifer wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Ravifer wrote: »

    I still feel, though, that when someone posts with what they think is not working as intended in their opinion, people should repply with their own personal experience to prove them wrong rather than simply questioning what they are saying.

    And, asking for some data sheet... well, I can make one for you right now with whichever data I would like to transmit, so it is not a valid option for me either.

    Posting on the forum about something is not to be questioned or asked to prove (we can all proove what we want, since noone really knos if the proof we give is real or not), but rather to hear about other peoples personal experiences to see if it is a wider thing or just a personal or bad luck one.

    So, I feel unlucky with mods. If 30 people comment to say that they do feel it is close to 25%, then I would feel that either I am unlucky or time will sort it out in the long run, because it is hard to make 30 people make up data when they probably dont even knoe each other.

    I think that is all this post needed, istead of questioning what the person said at the beginning.

    People's feelings are in no way an accurate indication of actual percentages, so if you want to make a case you basically have to track your drops/speed increases.
    Lets say for example you slice 12 mods, the first 2 hit speed, the next 9 don't and the last one does. That's 1/4 hitting speed total, but for the last 10 it's only 1/10. Do you reckon that a player experiences that as "normal" or unlucky?

    Hopefully as normal. As long as its a dedicated player, 12 slices will be done within a week, so its hard not to take all into consideration. Unlucky is when you go on 2 or 3 weeks of slicing with 0-2 speed going up. To even that out, you would need a very lucky week, and believe me, you would also remember that!

    Yea, i don't believe that to be honest with you.
    I used to be conviced my droprate for shards was way lower than 33%, untill i started tracking my droprate. In fear of sounding arogant, i don't even trust my own observation/feelings, so i definately don't trust anyone else's.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • TVF
    14956 posts Member
    Not trusting your own observations/feelings is the opposite of arrogant.
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  • That's not a secret that odds where changed some time ago. Pre mods 2.0 this was clearly more spread around different stats. Obviously now defense has most luck being rise. Really dunno why, maybe it's just that 'bad' rng for several months playing a role, maybe...
  • TVF
    14956 posts Member
    That's not a secret that odds where changed some time ago. Pre mods 2.0 this was clearly more spread around different stats. Obviously now defense has most luck being rise. Really dunno why, maybe it's just that 'bad' rng for several months playing a role, maybe...

    Data please.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    That's not a secret that odds where changed some time ago. Pre mods 2.0 this was clearly more spread around different stats. Obviously now defense has most luck being rise. Really dunno why, maybe it's just that 'bad' rng for several months playing a role, maybe...

    Data please.

    Here you go: "DATA%#^&&@&;&$#$&ENDOFDATA"

  • TVF
    14956 posts Member
    Well argued. 10/10.
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  • TVF wrote: »
    Well argued. 10/10.

    I know. Thanks. Does your slicing data says differently?


  • TVF
    14956 posts Member
    Yes it does. My best mods have almost exclusively come from 2.0.

    Of course neither of us have enough data to be worth anything anyway. However, only one of us is claiming that they changed the odds, with no proof to back it up.
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  • You're claiming with your argument they haven't.

    I haven't state odds for speed were changed just saying my observation for last few weeks are that defense has most likely highest odds and I feel it wasn't like that. I slice mods a lot and for me it's certain something has been messed up. If you don't get a defense being rise so often good for you.
  • TVF
    14956 posts Member
    You literally said "That's not a secret that odds where changed some time ago." Shrug. I give up.
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  • Yeah, that's not a secret it was changed. I'm saying what I'm seeing and for me it's a certain thing. If it's something you disagree then good. I'm not trying to change up your mind but not sure why you keep trying change mine.
  • jhbuchholz
    1533 posts Member
    Yeah, that's not a secret it was changed.

    When were the odds changed? I don't remember this.
  • Kokie wrote: »
    I won $300 playing craps last night.....never rolled speed once so it must be rigged

    But did you bet on hard six and eight?

  • TVF
    14956 posts Member
    Yeah, that's not a secret it was changed. I'm saying what I'm seeing and for me it's a certain thing. If it's something you disagree then good. I'm not trying to change up your mind but not sure why you keep trying change mine.

    I like your user name.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • DarkstarSunrise
    460 posts Member
    edited July 3
    My data is my data, it's hand scratched notes and I do not have the time or desire to put it in a google sheet to share. I farm 6 energy refreshes of slicing mats every day since about when slicing was introduced, you can peruse my roster to see how many shiny sliced mods I have, my sample size for slicing is not small. The disparity between defense increases to speed increases is significant enough that I brought this up. I am fully aware of how one's vantage can skew their perspective, and I'm trying to remain impartial and just go by the results I have seen. The results do not reflect the statements by CG (thanks for the reddit quote, I don't use reddit and it's a shame that so much "official" communication happens on unofficial channels).
  • Ultra
    3534 posts Member
    My data is my data, it's hand scratched notes and I do not have the time or desire to put it in a google sheet to share.
    Take a picture on your phone and then post the picture here from the phone directly
  • TVF
    14956 posts Member
    Ultra wrote: »
    My data is my data, it's hand scratched notes and I do not have the time or desire to put it in a google sheet to share.
    Take a picture on your phone and then post the picture here from the phone directly

    You forgot to mention the 90 degree rotate.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Ultra
    3534 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    My data is my data, it's hand scratched notes and I do not have the time or desire to put it in a google sheet to share.
    Take a picture on your phone and then post the picture here from the phone directly

    You forgot to mention the 90 degree rotate.
    No need

    The notes are going to be blank
  • TVF
    14956 posts Member
    Ultra wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    My data is my data, it's hand scratched notes and I do not have the time or desire to put it in a google sheet to share.
    Take a picture on your phone and then post the picture here from the phone directly

    You forgot to mention the 90 degree rotate.
    No need

    The notes are going to be blank

    giphy.gif
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  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    Phern wrote: »
    Random is rolling a die. Pseudorandom is a computer programmed to generate a number between 1 and 6.

    So, is what you are trying to say that its impossible to program a computer to make a truly random selection?
    I believe what he is unconsciously trying to say is that he does not know what "pseudo-random" actually means. ;)

    For the purposes of education, a software pseudo-random number generator (RNG) performs a series of predictable, repeatable operations each time it is called. It is seeded with an arbitrary value, usually system time in milliseconds and thereafter will use the previous result as input to generate the next one.

    The resulting number sequence may appear random if you don't analyze it too closely but is in fact predictable and repeatable - if you use the same RNG code and the same seed value, you will get the same output sequence every time.

    I like this one, so what we need to do is pin down exactly what nanosecond we should be hitting the slice button in order to always get speed. :)
    ObiShenobi
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  • DarkstarSunrise
    460 posts Member
    edited July 3
    If you care soooo much they look like this:
    s60ylc4jq6rb.jpg

    I also keep notes about my mods, like this:
    alrk16tz2vzm.jpg


    I have booklets of notes from almost every game I've played the last 20 years. This isn't a thread about how I keep track of things, it's about the experienced rate of one stat increasing/not increasing. A sample size as large as mine I would expect to see a tendency toward every stat increasing at the same rate, but that's not what I'm seeing.
  • leef
    12639 posts Member
    edited July 3
    like i said earlier in this thread, your luck is horrible (or you're doing something wrong). I compared our mods with the DSR bot, ive never seen that many 10+ with so few 20/25+.
    No one i scouted for GA or any other purpose actually came close to your 10+ / 20/25+ ratio.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • DarkstarSunrise
    460 posts Member
    edited July 3
    leef wrote: »
    No one i scouted for GA or any other purpose actually came close to your 10+ / 20/25+ ratio.

    I complain about my terrible luck all the time, to the point it seems cliche, but compares like yours are typical of my match-ups and so maybe I am just an outlier on the bad luck spectrum. I guess that means somewhere out there is someone who only ever sees speed increase to balance out with me, as I assure you I'm not doing anything wrong with slicing since it's just press a button and cross your fingers.
  • jhbuchholz
    1533 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    No one i scouted for GA or any other purpose actually came close to your 10+ / 20/25+ ratio.

    I assure you I'm not doing anything wrong with slicing since it's just press a button and cross your fingers.

    I think he means doing things wrong like slicing a mod with +3 speed four times and having it end up at +3 or +6. I'm pretty sure he isn't trying to say you're pressing the button wrong. That's more of a TVF thing to say.
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