The best comment so far is "all you have to do is spend $1200 a year and you can be semi-competitive. Lol.
$1200 a year on a freaking mobile game. Lol.
Real video games cost around $100 with all DLC.
For them to expect this kind of money commitment from people, and that people pay it so willingly, is why PVP is king.
PVP makes them tons of money from people chasing gear and that last +1 speed.
No, FTP players are not competitive in this game. Not at high levels anyway. There may be 1 or 2 out of 1000 that can compete but to compete you must spend. CG Carrie even said so, I think she said they expect $2000 a year from you to stay competitive.
Stop lying about FTP being competitive.
TLDR,
PVP makes them tons of $$ , that's why there is lots of it.
How do you explain at least %50 of almost all shard chats that comprimises of shard top players consist of f2p?
I agree with your general qualm, ofc the vast majority of f2p will fall behind, will be urged to spend here and there and that's the crust of the economical model of these games. Not only to spend but to keep spending on top of your already made investment you feel the urge to protect.
But you gotta put it in perspective. Being a competetive f2p is completely within possibility in this game for those who put their mind to it and that's further incentive to keep spenders on the edge and make them spend further. It's these types of push-pulls that's the fuel of the engine. I've seen the nightmare scenario on CG's previous game where the spending/f2p division was so wide that the community suffered a not so slow death. This aspect is in much more control in swgoh.
CG Carrie even said so, I think she said they expect $2000 a year from you to stay competitive.
She said that "to some degree" she expects people to pay $4-5000 to "catch up". You can read that many ways. Some have certainly read it as you must spend that much every year. I read it as, if you started today and wanted to catch the current meta you may have to spend $4-5000. That's a lot. Way too much for me. But you don't need to catch up to the current meta immediately. Time is your friend in this regard. Let the whales whale. Catch up over time.
As to the $2000 per year to stay competitive - I can say from experience that this is not needed. In 2018 I spent $190 on this game (a little more than half of it on the $10 Marquee packs that are of no help in the arenas) and I stayed in the top 5 all year. That cost is about double what a previous poster says a AAA title with all the DLC goes for. I also spent at least 365 hours in game. About 4x the length of a AAA game and more than double one with a lot of DLC. Yeah, $200 sounds like a lot for a mobile game and in some contexts it is. For 365 hours of entertainment? I can afford it and I think it's fine.
I know my perspective isn't completely F2P, which is why I directed the OP to others for advice, but I am at the top of both of my arenas and I spend far, far less than the numbers that are starting to pop up in this thread.
Then you are doing something wrong, and that has nothing to do with $$.
Could I improve? Absolutely. Will I get into the top 20 WITHOUT spending money. NOPE.
GG .. no re (unless you pull out you credit card)
If you could improve, that might be a good path to see how far you can get without $$. You might be surprised. Also, the increased free income really helps.
We have a bunch of players that make top 20 and even top 10 as F2P on our shard.
I really don’t understand this whole “FTP vs. PTW” mentality.
This game is designed with a certain rate of progression in mind. New content is released on a cadence that matches that. And to keep up with that cadence is totally possible ftp. It means accepting that you will not complete all new content on day 1 - it may take several months. Maybe a year. But that’s the pace that the game is set to anyway. The Sith raid is pretty achievable for most players by now, although many couldn’t beat it at launch. And we still don’t have a new raid, so there is more time to “catch up”.
It’s a matter of perspective and how you define your goals. If your goal is to immediately beat people who are going through money like it’s water - then you need to accept that you won’t be able to do that immediately. Any other expectation wouldn’t make sense. Those big spenders are, by definition, spending big money to beat the newest content immediately - much quicker than is intended. Of course the average player can’t expect to match that without spending similar amounts of money. So what? Why are they your yardstick?
Also, $100 a month is pretty high. I’ve spent around $100-200 / YEAR and I easily take top ranks in arenas and stay competitive with the biggest whales in my guild. It’s just about priorities. I’ve had to skip several “luxury” teams along the way and focus on the more important ones. My CLS and Rey teams still don’t have every zeta applied - but I always have some zetas available for when a new meta comes along, enough to remain at the top of the arenas. Same with the tough to acquire gear pieces. I’d love to max out a clone team right now, but I can’t justify it yet. Instead I’m just finishing off my separatists first. I rarely come first in GA, usually I’m in the middle somewhere. That’s because I’m often outplayed. I started out coming in dead last because my strategy was bad. I got sick of that so I worked to improve my teams (especially mods) and to learn the right counters. This helped a lot, with a grand total cost of $0. And if I wanted to take the effort to re-mod constantly, I could further improve my ranks.
Point being: You need to choose attainable goals and work towards them. Or pay to get them immediately.
If you really think about it, this game is 100% PvE.
PvP is player vs player and not an AI replacing a player. When you play real PvP in games like Warcraft, you get to see real gamer talent at work and not +1 speed on a mod. This is fake PvP.
So yeah this game isn’t PvP focused at all. The day we actually play real players you’ll see the difference.
If you've heard it a million times then maybe you should be asking, "what can I do to be competitive as a F2P player" instead of declaring it undeniable that F2P cannot be competitive. Believe it or not, there are helpful folks on the forums and if you post your swgoh.gg account or ally code you'll get some good suggestions.
Show me some 100 percent f2p players (no money spent from day one) that are in the top twenty.
Even the very best advice, from the very best player, wont get me to the point of being competitive.. unless I use my credit card to stat buying crystals galore for gear 13, and all the must have toons.
People who are willing to do that are obviously gaining an advantage.. CG likes it that way.. If you look around, there are lots of other free to play games where you can compete without paying to win. League of Legends for example..
I take 1st or 2nd in both arenas every day and I haven't spent a cent. It is possible.
I deny this statement. First because there are plenty of people that compete without spending. And second because skill is not a deciding factor in any current PvP. Lack of skill can be, but when every interaction is against an AI there isn't a great deal of skill needed.
I’m f2p.. been playing for 3+ years.. I’m basically stuck in between rank 100 - 200 in squad arena. I win about the same amount as I lose. It’s become very boring, and stagnant.
Then you are doing something wrong, and that has nothing to do with $$.
Really ? How did you come to that conclusion? If all f2p have the same idea which is go for the current meta they should all reach the meta teams at the same time basically resulting in no progress. I saw this with JTR where I couldn’t break from 100-200 . I splashed like £300 on light reven and got to rank 2 yes rank 2 . I refused to buy darth revean so when I got him f2p I’m currently 50-100 and everyone around me also now has darth reven.
I deny this statement. First because there are plenty of people that compete without spending. And second because skill is not a deciding factor in any current PvP. Lack of skill can be, but when every interaction is against an AI there isn't a great deal of skill needed.
I’m f2p.. been playing for 3+ years.. I’m basically stuck in between rank 100 - 200 in squad arena. I win about the same amount as I lose. It’s become very boring, and stagnant.
Then you are doing something wrong, and that has nothing to do with $$.
Really ? How did you come to that conclusion? If all f2p have the same idea which is go for the current meta they should all reach the meta teams at the same time basically resulting in no progress. I saw this with JTR where I couldn’t break from 100-200 . I splashed like £300 on light reven and got to rank 2 yes rank 2 . I refused to buy darth revean so when I got him f2p I’m currently 50-100 and everyone around me also now has darth reven.
Staying in the top 50 as a F2P player is definitely a challenge. Sometimes you have to skip a meta and go for an easier to acquire anti meta. All last summer I can a Rex (L), DN, CLS, Thrawn, Nest team to climb through the Traya teams that dominated the meta. And there was a month or so of work that went into figuring out a good counter.
Another strategy that often goes hand in hand is hoarding gear and crystals to jump on a new meta or anti meta immediately. This is the path that would have likely yielded the best results this time around. A 6 star Padme or G13 GG can get to the top of most arenas. You'd just need a way to acquire and build the characters and teams rapidly. Meaning resource management.
Your £300 alleviated the need for resource management (i.e. hoarding).
I deny this statement. First because there are plenty of people that compete without spending. And second because skill is not a deciding factor in any current PvP. Lack of skill can be, but when every interaction is against an AI there isn't a great deal of skill needed.
I’m f2p.. been playing for 3+ years.. I’m basically stuck in between rank 100 - 200 in squad arena. I win about the same amount as I lose. It’s become very boring, and stagnant.
Then you are doing something wrong, and that has nothing to do with $$.
Really ? How did you come to that conclusion? If all f2p have the same idea which is go for the current meta they should all reach the meta teams at the same time basically resulting in no progress. I saw this with JTR where I couldn’t break from 100-200 . I splashed like £300 on light reven and got to rank 2 yes rank 2 . I refused to buy darth revean so when I got him f2p I’m currently 50-100 and everyone around me also now has darth reven.
Because not all players and metas are alike. Many have been hinted at and could have been starting farms at various points in time based on the players willingness to follow speculation.
Also many players hoard crystals and have different levels of income of said crystals. So yes really, and no it is very unlikely that 2 players will end up at the same point in a meta at the same time. We all get there at different paces.
But being stuck in the 100-200 and winning as much as you lose is a player issue and has little to do with $$ and more to do with development and possibly understanding of the mechanics. If I had to guess I would start with mods and work from there.
If you and everyone else has him in the 50-100, you should be able to go higher, I dont think you have 50 malaks in the top of your shard, which could give you trouble, but still not lock you out. Also, we have a decent counter meta of GR, which is doing fairly well even with a 6* padma.
Again, all of this has nothing to do with f2p vs p2p.
I deny this statement. First because there are plenty of people that compete without spending. And second because skill is not a deciding factor in any current PvP. Lack of skill can be, but when every interaction is against an AI there isn't a great deal of skill needed.
I’m f2p.. been playing for 3+ years.. I’m basically stuck in between rank 100 - 200 in squad arena. I win about the same amount as I lose. It’s become very boring, and stagnant.
Then you are doing something wrong, and that has nothing to do with $$.
Really ? How did you come to that conclusion? If all f2p have the same idea which is go for the current meta they should all reach the meta teams at the same time basically resulting in no progress. I saw this with JTR where I couldn’t break from 100-200 . I splashed like £300 on light reven and got to rank 2 yes rank 2 . I refused to buy darth revean so when I got him f2p I’m currently 50-100 and everyone around me also now has darth reven.
Staying in the top 50 as a F2P player is definitely a challenge. Sometimes you have to skip a meta and go for an easier to acquire anti meta. All last summer I can a Rex (L), DN, CLS, Thrawn, Nest team to climb through the Traya teams that dominated the meta. And there was a month or so of work that went into figuring out a good counter.
Another strategy that often goes hand in hand is hoarding gear and crystals to jump on a new meta or anti meta immediately. This is the path that would have likely yielded the best results this time around. A 6 star Padme or G13 GG can get to the top of most arenas. You'd just need a way to acquire and build the characters and teams rapidly. Meaning resource management.
Your £300 alleviated the need for resource management (i.e. hoarding).
Well light reven you couldn’t possibly prepare for if you were 100-200 his required characters were only farmable for 5 mins before he dropped. Nearly every guild demands max energy be used and you 50 crystals a day can’t be saved.
Darth reven same 5 mins to farm but also with the added challenge of new gear which you couldn’t farm.
Then gear 13 most top 20 have all gear 13 squad first week.
I can understand how it might seem to some people like PvP content drives spending more than PvE. Especially looking at things with recency bias. The recent arena metas do seem to have driven a lot of sales. As has prep for GA/GAC.
But I also bet a lot of money has been spent on GEO TB content. And in the past people spent on the other TBs and raids.
Basically my point is that new content drives sales. Whatever the focus of that content. But I do think that PvP centric content might generate more revenue overall.
I deny this statement. First because there are plenty of people that compete without spending. And second because skill is not a deciding factor in any current PvP. Lack of skill can be, but when every interaction is against an AI there isn't a great deal of skill needed.
I’m f2p.. been playing for 3+ years.. I’m basically stuck in between rank 100 - 200 in squad arena. I win about the same amount as I lose. It’s become very boring, and stagnant.
Then you are doing something wrong, and that has nothing to do with $$.
Really ? How did you come to that conclusion? If all f2p have the same idea which is go for the current meta they should all reach the meta teams at the same time basically resulting in no progress. I saw this with JTR where I couldn’t break from 100-200 . I splashed like £300 on light reven and got to rank 2 yes rank 2 . I refused to buy darth revean so when I got him f2p I’m currently 50-100 and everyone around me also now has darth reven.
Staying in the top 50 as a F2P player is definitely a challenge. Sometimes you have to skip a meta and go for an easier to acquire anti meta. All last summer I can a Rex (L), DN, CLS, Thrawn, Nest team to climb through the Traya teams that dominated the meta. And there was a month or so of work that went into figuring out a good counter.
Another strategy that often goes hand in hand is hoarding gear and crystals to jump on a new meta or anti meta immediately. This is the path that would have likely yielded the best results this time around. A 6 star Padme or G13 GG can get to the top of most arenas. You'd just need a way to acquire and build the characters and teams rapidly. Meaning resource management.
Your £300 alleviated the need for resource management (i.e. hoarding).
Well light reven you couldn’t possibly prepare for if you were 100-200 his required characters were only farmable for 5 mins before he dropped. Nearly every guild demands max energy be used and you 50 crystals a day can’t be saved.
Darth reven same 5 mins to farm but also with the added challenge of new gear which you couldn’t farm.
Then gear 13 most top 20 have all gear 13 squad first week.
So that’s 3 metas you’d missed out on being f2p.
False.
Almost 900 people got Malak without spending a dime at any point in their play time.
Almost 900 people got Malak without spending a dime at any point in their play time.
f2p can hoard crystals.
If you are responding to me, what is the relevancy of your point?
Yeah, sure you can get toons ftp. But people also spend money. In a discussion of how and where that money is spent, the people not spending money are an irrelevant side point.
My post was focusing on the people that spend money and was discussing whether PvP drives their spending more or whether PvE drives their spending more. FTP players are irrelevant to the discussion.
I deny this statement. First because there are plenty of people that compete without spending. And second because skill is not a deciding factor in any current PvP. Lack of skill can be, but when every interaction is against an AI there isn't a great deal of skill needed.
I’m f2p.. been playing for 3+ years.. I’m basically stuck in between rank 100 - 200 in squad arena. I win about the same amount as I lose. It’s become very boring, and stagnant.
Then you are doing something wrong, and that has nothing to do with $$.
Really ? How did you come to that conclusion? If all f2p have the same idea which is go for the current meta they should all reach the meta teams at the same time basically resulting in no progress. I saw this with JTR where I couldn’t break from 100-200 . I splashed like £300 on light reven and got to rank 2 yes rank 2 . I refused to buy darth revean so when I got him f2p I’m currently 50-100 and everyone around me also now has darth reven.
Staying in the top 50 as a F2P player is definitely a challenge. Sometimes you have to skip a meta and go for an easier to acquire anti meta. All last summer I can a Rex (L), DN, CLS, Thrawn, Nest team to climb through the Traya teams that dominated the meta. And there was a month or so of work that went into figuring out a good counter.
Another strategy that often goes hand in hand is hoarding gear and crystals to jump on a new meta or anti meta immediately. This is the path that would have likely yielded the best results this time around. A 6 star Padme or G13 GG can get to the top of most arenas. You'd just need a way to acquire and build the characters and teams rapidly. Meaning resource management.
Your £300 alleviated the need for resource management (i.e. hoarding).
Well light reven you couldn’t possibly prepare for if you were 100-200 his required characters were only farmable for 5 mins before he dropped. Nearly every guild demands max energy be used and you 50 crystals a day can’t be saved.
Darth reven same 5 mins to farm but also with the added challenge of new gear which you couldn’t farm.
Then gear 13 most top 20 have all gear 13 squad first week.
So that’s 3 metas you’d missed out on being f2p.
I think you've applied a fair amount of historical revisionism there. JKR was one of the most F2P friendly legendaries to come along in a while and CG did a lot (see: 8 hard node sims) to enable folks to unlock him. So while you might not have had the Old Republic characters unlocked and geared (many people did - go back to this time last year in the forums and a lot of people were starting to predict his arrival with the release of the OR marquees) you could have been saving crystals for node refreshes and gear to use on the characters once brought to 7 star.
DR was definitely harder and DM even harder. But to call DR and DM separate metas is a bit disingenuous as well. Prior to DM the meta was split between a character that had already returned for a second run (JKR) and a character that didn't seem to have a full team around him (DR).
If you look at what I said, I'm not trying to say you should have, or could have, predicted JRK or DR, but you could have saved crystals and gear and then used them to supercharge your farm once JRK was announced. Many people did it with multiple G7/G8 characters.
Almost 900 people got Malak without spending a dime at any point in their play time.
f2p can hoard crystals.
If you are responding to me, what is the relevancy of your point?
Yeah, sure you can get toons ftp. But people also spend money. In a discussion of how and where that money is spent, the people not spending money are an irrelevant side point.
My post was focusing on the people that spend money and was discussing whether PvP drives their spending more or whether PvE drives their spending more. FTP players are irrelevant to the discussion.
Or were you responding to posts before mine?
I was not responding to you, we posted at the same time and I was responding to the post above yours. I will edit mine to include the relevant quote.
Almost 900 people got Malak without spending a dime at any point in their play time.
f2p can hoard crystals.
If you are responding to me, what is the relevancy of your point?
Yeah, sure you can get toons ftp. But people also spend money. In a discussion of how and where that money is spent, the people not spending money are an irrelevant side point.
My post was focusing on the people that spend money and was discussing whether PvP drives their spending more or whether PvE drives their spending more. FTP players are irrelevant to the discussion.
Or were you responding to posts before mine?
I was not responding to you, we posted at the same time and I was responding to the post above yours. I will edit mine to include the relevant quote.
Yeah, that makes more sense. I thought that might be the case. My apologies if I was at all confrontational to your post.
I deny this statement. First because there are plenty of people that compete without spending. And second because skill is not a deciding factor in any current PvP. Lack of skill can be, but when every interaction is against an AI there isn't a great deal of skill needed.
I’m f2p.. been playing for 3+ years.. I’m basically stuck in between rank 100 - 200 in squad arena. I win about the same amount as I lose. It’s become very boring, and stagnant.
Then you are doing something wrong, and that has nothing to do with $$.
Really ? How did you come to that conclusion? If all f2p have the same idea which is go for the current meta they should all reach the meta teams at the same time basically resulting in no progress. I saw this with JTR where I couldn’t break from 100-200 . I splashed like £300 on light reven and got to rank 2 yes rank 2 . I refused to buy darth revean so when I got him f2p I’m currently 50-100 and everyone around me also now has darth reven.
Staying in the top 50 as a F2P player is definitely a challenge. Sometimes you have to skip a meta and go for an easier to acquire anti meta. All last summer I can a Rex (L), DN, CLS, Thrawn, Nest team to climb through the Traya teams that dominated the meta. And there was a month or so of work that went into figuring out a good counter.
Another strategy that often goes hand in hand is hoarding gear and crystals to jump on a new meta or anti meta immediately. This is the path that would have likely yielded the best results this time around. A 6 star Padme or G13 GG can get to the top of most arenas. You'd just need a way to acquire and build the characters and teams rapidly. Meaning resource management.
Your £300 alleviated the need for resource management (i.e. hoarding).
Well light reven you couldn’t possibly prepare for if you were 100-200 his required characters were only farmable for 5 mins before he dropped. Nearly every guild demands max energy be used and you 50 crystals a day can’t be saved.
Darth reven same 5 mins to farm but also with the added challenge of new gear which you couldn’t farm.
Then gear 13 most top 20 have all gear 13 squad first week.
So that’s 3 metas you’d missed out on being f2p.
You get more crystals than just your arena payout (daily activities, GW, daily login sometimes), plus there's also fleet arena if you chose to focus on that. So yes, it is possible to do a 50 crystal refresh to get your 600 and also save crystals at SA rank 100-200 if you choose to do so.
Darth Revan requirements were actually farmable longer than JKR and there were only 4 of them, so getting DR was easier. And the kyrotechs were farmable from the beginning.
Not all f2p are in the same position. If, prior to JKR, you were placing high in arena, which was more about being in a HSTR guild than about spending, then you could have saved up the crystals necessary to do all of these things. So it is in no way true that all f2p will get there at the same rate.
The best comment so far is "all you have to do is spend $1200 a year and you can be semi-competitive. Lol.
$1200 a year on a freaking mobile game. Lol.
Real video games cost around $100 with all DLC.
For them to expect this kind of money commitment from people, and that people pay it so willingly, is why PVP is king.
PVP makes them tons of money from people chasing gear and that last +1 speed.
No, FTP players are not competitive in this game. Not at high levels anyway. There may be 1 or 2 out of 1000 that can compete but to compete you must spend. CG Carrie even said so, I think she said they expect $2000 a year from you to stay competitive.
Stop lying about FTP being competitive.
TLDR,
PVP makes them tons of $$ , that's why there is lots of it.
How do you explain at least %50 of almost all shard chats that comprimises of shard top players consist of f2p?
I agree with your general qualm, ofc the vast majority of f2p will fall behind, will be urged to spend here and there and that's the crust of the economical model of these games. Not only to spend but to keep spending on top of your already made investment you feel the urge to protect.
But you gotta put it in perspective. Being a competetive f2p is completely within possibility in this game for those who put their mind to it and that's further incentive to keep spenders on the edge and make them spend further. It's these types of push-pulls that's the fuel of the engine. I've seen the nightmare scenario on CG's previous game where the spending/f2p division was so wide that the community suffered a not so slow death. This aspect is in much more control in swgoh.
The only reason ftp on top of shards is because of discord. With out the set up payout schedules afforded by discord servers. FTP would be SOL.
If you think FTP can compete with paying players on average, I invite you to take on a few of the crew in Wallet Warriors or TI in a GA or a TW. Have fun.
I dont mean to side track from OP question though.
I stand by my original answer, PVP king because PVP pays their XMAS bonuses
The best comment so far is "all you have to do is spend $1200 a year and you can be semi-competitive. Lol.
$1200 a year on a freaking mobile game. Lol.
Real video games cost around $100 with all DLC.
For them to expect this kind of money commitment from people, and that people pay it so willingly, is why PVP is king.
PVP makes them tons of money from people chasing gear and that last +1 speed.
No, FTP players are not competitive in this game. Not at high levels anyway. There may be 1 or 2 out of 1000 that can compete but to compete you must spend. CG Carrie even said so, I think she said they expect $2000 a year from you to stay competitive.
Stop lying about FTP being competitive.
TLDR,
PVP makes them tons of $$ , that's why there is lots of it.
How do you explain at least %50 of almost all shard chats that comprimises of shard top players consist of f2p?
I agree with your general qualm, ofc the vast majority of f2p will fall behind, will be urged to spend here and there and that's the crust of the economical model of these games. Not only to spend but to keep spending on top of your already made investment you feel the urge to protect.
But you gotta put it in perspective. Being a competetive f2p is completely within possibility in this game for those who put their mind to it and that's further incentive to keep spenders on the edge and make them spend further. It's these types of push-pulls that's the fuel of the engine. I've seen the nightmare scenario on CG's previous game where the spending/f2p division was so wide that the community suffered a not so slow death. This aspect is in much more control in swgoh.
The only reason ftp on top of shards is because of discord. With out the set up payout schedules afforded by discord servers. FTP would be SOL.
If you think FTP can compete with paying players on average, I invite you to take on a few of the crew in Wallet Warriors or TI in a GA or a TW. Have fun.
I dont mean to side track from OP question though.
I stand by my original answer, PVP king because PVP pays their XMAS bonuses
That reason exists and will always exist. But history of the game can't be erasen either.At the very beginning shard chats didn't exist and I was eligible to get in one as I was able to place at the top without communication too. No idea if this could have been as viable if chats never existed afterwards, prolly not.
My shard kraken is one of the top players of the game as this is a week 1 shard. He is able to make even the not really meta viable teams daunting as he likes experimenting as well. His personal existence never presented a problem. Besides that there's simply no place in the game that I will encounter any of those top accounts, not GAC, not TW.
The best comment so far is "all you have to do is spend $1200 a year and you can be semi-competitive. Lol.
$1200 a year on a freaking mobile game. Lol.
Real video games cost around $100 with all DLC.
For them to expect this kind of money commitment from people, and that people pay it so willingly, is why PVP is king.
PVP makes them tons of money from people chasing gear and that last +1 speed.
No, FTP players are not competitive in this game. Not at high levels anyway. There may be 1 or 2 out of 1000 that can compete but to compete you must spend. CG Carrie even said so, I think she said they expect $2000 a year from you to stay competitive.
Stop lying about FTP being competitive.
TLDR,
PVP makes them tons of $$ , that's why there is lots of it.
How do you explain at least %50 of almost all shard chats that comprimises of shard top players consist of f2p?
I agree with your general qualm, ofc the vast majority of f2p will fall behind, will be urged to spend here and there and that's the crust of the economical model of these games. Not only to spend but to keep spending on top of your already made investment you feel the urge to protect.
But you gotta put it in perspective. Being a competetive f2p is completely within possibility in this game for those who put their mind to it and that's further incentive to keep spenders on the edge and make them spend further. It's these types of push-pulls that's the fuel of the engine. I've seen the nightmare scenario on CG's previous game where the spending/f2p division was so wide that the community suffered a not so slow death. This aspect is in much more control in swgoh.
If you think FTP can compete with paying players on average, I invite you to take on a few of the crew in Wallet Warriors or TI in a GA or a TW. Have fun.
Unlike GA or TW, in arena (where crystals are obtained), you generally only need one team to compete. If you have that team maxed out, it doesn't matter that the TI/WW guy also has 75 other maxed characters that you don't have - you can beat him if you have the right team, and are competitive on mods.
Unlike GA or TW, in arena (where crystals are obtained), you generally only need one team to compete. If you have that team maxed out, it doesn't matter that the TI/WW guy also has 75 other maxed characters that you don't have - you can beat him if you have the right team, and are competitive on mods.[/quote]
Who do you think will have better mods? The guy who is FTP or the guy who has spent $30k?
Who do you think will have better mods? The guy who is FTP or the guy who has spent $30k?
Depends on how much they have each focused on farming mods and how lucky they have each been. The person who spent a lot is likely to have greater depth of mods, but again that affects GA/TW much more than it does squad arena, in which you only need one team. The f2p may well have a set of top tier arena mods.
Who do you think will have better mods? The guy who is FTP or the guy who has spent $30k?
There's a limit on top end mods. I only need one team's worth of top end mods for arena. The guy who spends a lot (and if you're talking about TI or WW level krakens, you should up that $30k number) is going to have a lot of teams with top end mods, but again, for arena it's one team's worth.
Who do you think will have better mods? The guy who is FTP or the guy who has spent $30k?
In my experience it's the ftp one who will have better mods tbh. P2W players tend to use money in place of time to get teams geared up, rarely is money spend on mods, so the ftp players had much more time infested in mods as they spelt gear up to that same point
We have a bunch of players that make top 20 and even top 10 as F2P on our shard.
Are you talking about now? Or throughout the entire recorded history of this game? If you're talking about now, I'm having a hard time believing you.
Also, this is the internet, and these are gamers. Lots of them will tell you all kinds of things that aren't true.
Such as: "I haven't spent a dime on this", "this is my first time playing", "I solo'd the raid on my first try I didn't even put any effort in" .. and "I have a girlfriend". <== haha, but some people really do lie about everything.
One reason developers resort to PvP mechanisms in games is that it is a lot less programming, testing and work to create. Companies like Bethesda who craft full-fledged story-bases games are a rarity nowadays due to the enormous costs to make that sort of content versus the quick and easy route of just slapping together some PvP mode.
That said when this game first started PvP was the minority of activities and I really preferred it that way. PvP in this game is inherently flawed in so many ways. Matchmaking for GAC or TW doesn't factor secondary speed mods at all and it seems that G13 and zetas really don't weigh much if GP is all that is factored in.
For PvP games, which I still don't like for the most part, I prefer ones where player tactics, strategy and skill outweigh random elements like who has lucked into the fastest secondary speed mods. When mods were introduced, in my opinion, the potential for interesting PvP died.
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How do you explain at least %50 of almost all shard chats that comprimises of shard top players consist of f2p?
I agree with your general qualm, ofc the vast majority of f2p will fall behind, will be urged to spend here and there and that's the crust of the economical model of these games. Not only to spend but to keep spending on top of your already made investment you feel the urge to protect.
But you gotta put it in perspective. Being a competetive f2p is completely within possibility in this game for those who put their mind to it and that's further incentive to keep spenders on the edge and make them spend further. It's these types of push-pulls that's the fuel of the engine. I've seen the nightmare scenario on CG's previous game where the spending/f2p division was so wide that the community suffered a not so slow death. This aspect is in much more control in swgoh.
She said that "to some degree" she expects people to pay $4-5000 to "catch up". You can read that many ways. Some have certainly read it as you must spend that much every year. I read it as, if you started today and wanted to catch the current meta you may have to spend $4-5000. That's a lot. Way too much for me. But you don't need to catch up to the current meta immediately. Time is your friend in this regard. Let the whales whale. Catch up over time.
As to the $2000 per year to stay competitive - I can say from experience that this is not needed. In 2018 I spent $190 on this game (a little more than half of it on the $10 Marquee packs that are of no help in the arenas) and I stayed in the top 5 all year. That cost is about double what a previous poster says a AAA title with all the DLC goes for. I also spent at least 365 hours in game. About 4x the length of a AAA game and more than double one with a lot of DLC. Yeah, $200 sounds like a lot for a mobile game and in some contexts it is. For 365 hours of entertainment? I can afford it and I think it's fine.
I know my perspective isn't completely F2P, which is why I directed the OP to others for advice, but I am at the top of both of my arenas and I spend far, far less than the numbers that are starting to pop up in this thread.
If you could improve, that might be a good path to see how far you can get without $$. You might be surprised. Also, the increased free income really helps.
We have a bunch of players that make top 20 and even top 10 as F2P on our shard.
This game is designed with a certain rate of progression in mind. New content is released on a cadence that matches that. And to keep up with that cadence is totally possible ftp. It means accepting that you will not complete all new content on day 1 - it may take several months. Maybe a year. But that’s the pace that the game is set to anyway. The Sith raid is pretty achievable for most players by now, although many couldn’t beat it at launch. And we still don’t have a new raid, so there is more time to “catch up”.
It’s a matter of perspective and how you define your goals. If your goal is to immediately beat people who are going through money like it’s water - then you need to accept that you won’t be able to do that immediately. Any other expectation wouldn’t make sense. Those big spenders are, by definition, spending big money to beat the newest content immediately - much quicker than is intended. Of course the average player can’t expect to match that without spending similar amounts of money. So what? Why are they your yardstick?
Also, $100 a month is pretty high. I’ve spent around $100-200 / YEAR and I easily take top ranks in arenas and stay competitive with the biggest whales in my guild. It’s just about priorities. I’ve had to skip several “luxury” teams along the way and focus on the more important ones. My CLS and Rey teams still don’t have every zeta applied - but I always have some zetas available for when a new meta comes along, enough to remain at the top of the arenas. Same with the tough to acquire gear pieces. I’d love to max out a clone team right now, but I can’t justify it yet. Instead I’m just finishing off my separatists first. I rarely come first in GA, usually I’m in the middle somewhere. That’s because I’m often outplayed. I started out coming in dead last because my strategy was bad. I got sick of that so I worked to improve my teams (especially mods) and to learn the right counters. This helped a lot, with a grand total cost of $0. And if I wanted to take the effort to re-mod constantly, I could further improve my ranks.
Point being: You need to choose attainable goals and work towards them. Or pay to get them immediately.
PvP is player vs player and not an AI replacing a player. When you play real PvP in games like Warcraft, you get to see real gamer talent at work and not +1 speed on a mod. This is fake PvP.
So yeah this game isn’t PvP focused at all. The day we actually play real players you’ll see the difference.
Only if they want advice on being f2p after spending :alot: first.
I take 1st or 2nd in both arenas every day and I haven't spent a cent. It is possible.
Really ? How did you come to that conclusion? If all f2p have the same idea which is go for the current meta they should all reach the meta teams at the same time basically resulting in no progress. I saw this with JTR where I couldn’t break from 100-200 . I splashed like £300 on light reven and got to rank 2 yes rank 2 . I refused to buy darth revean so when I got him f2p I’m currently 50-100 and everyone around me also now has darth reven.
Staying in the top 50 as a F2P player is definitely a challenge. Sometimes you have to skip a meta and go for an easier to acquire anti meta. All last summer I can a Rex (L), DN, CLS, Thrawn, Nest team to climb through the Traya teams that dominated the meta. And there was a month or so of work that went into figuring out a good counter.
Another strategy that often goes hand in hand is hoarding gear and crystals to jump on a new meta or anti meta immediately. This is the path that would have likely yielded the best results this time around. A 6 star Padme or G13 GG can get to the top of most arenas. You'd just need a way to acquire and build the characters and teams rapidly. Meaning resource management.
Your £300 alleviated the need for resource management (i.e. hoarding).
Because not all players and metas are alike. Many have been hinted at and could have been starting farms at various points in time based on the players willingness to follow speculation.
Also many players hoard crystals and have different levels of income of said crystals. So yes really, and no it is very unlikely that 2 players will end up at the same point in a meta at the same time. We all get there at different paces.
But being stuck in the 100-200 and winning as much as you lose is a player issue and has little to do with $$ and more to do with development and possibly understanding of the mechanics. If I had to guess I would start with mods and work from there.
If you and everyone else has him in the 50-100, you should be able to go higher, I dont think you have 50 malaks in the top of your shard, which could give you trouble, but still not lock you out. Also, we have a decent counter meta of GR, which is doing fairly well even with a 6* padma.
Again, all of this has nothing to do with f2p vs p2p.
Well light reven you couldn’t possibly prepare for if you were 100-200 his required characters were only farmable for 5 mins before he dropped. Nearly every guild demands max energy be used and you 50 crystals a day can’t be saved.
Darth reven same 5 mins to farm but also with the added challenge of new gear which you couldn’t farm.
Then gear 13 most top 20 have all gear 13 squad first week.
So that’s 3 metas you’d missed out on being f2p.
But I also bet a lot of money has been spent on GEO TB content. And in the past people spent on the other TBs and raids.
Basically my point is that new content drives sales. Whatever the focus of that content. But I do think that PvP centric content might generate more revenue overall.
False.
Almost 900 people got Malak without spending a dime at any point in their play time.
f2p can hoard crystals.
If you are responding to me, what is the relevancy of your point?
Yeah, sure you can get toons ftp. But people also spend money. In a discussion of how and where that money is spent, the people not spending money are an irrelevant side point.
My post was focusing on the people that spend money and was discussing whether PvP drives their spending more or whether PvE drives their spending more. FTP players are irrelevant to the discussion.
Or were you responding to posts before mine?
I think you've applied a fair amount of historical revisionism there. JKR was one of the most F2P friendly legendaries to come along in a while and CG did a lot (see: 8 hard node sims) to enable folks to unlock him. So while you might not have had the Old Republic characters unlocked and geared (many people did - go back to this time last year in the forums and a lot of people were starting to predict his arrival with the release of the OR marquees) you could have been saving crystals for node refreshes and gear to use on the characters once brought to 7 star.
DR was definitely harder and DM even harder. But to call DR and DM separate metas is a bit disingenuous as well. Prior to DM the meta was split between a character that had already returned for a second run (JKR) and a character that didn't seem to have a full team around him (DR).
If you look at what I said, I'm not trying to say you should have, or could have, predicted JRK or DR, but you could have saved crystals and gear and then used them to supercharge your farm once JRK was announced. Many people did it with multiple G7/G8 characters.
I was not responding to you, we posted at the same time and I was responding to the post above yours. I will edit mine to include the relevant quote.
Yeah, that makes more sense. I thought that might be the case. My apologies if I was at all confrontational to your post.
You get more crystals than just your arena payout (daily activities, GW, daily login sometimes), plus there's also fleet arena if you chose to focus on that. So yes, it is possible to do a 50 crystal refresh to get your 600 and also save crystals at SA rank 100-200 if you choose to do so.
Darth Revan requirements were actually farmable longer than JKR and there were only 4 of them, so getting DR was easier. And the kyrotechs were farmable from the beginning.
Not all f2p are in the same position. If, prior to JKR, you were placing high in arena, which was more about being in a HSTR guild than about spending, then you could have saved up the crystals necessary to do all of these things. So it is in no way true that all f2p will get there at the same rate.
The only reason ftp on top of shards is because of discord. With out the set up payout schedules afforded by discord servers. FTP would be SOL.
If you think FTP can compete with paying players on average, I invite you to take on a few of the crew in Wallet Warriors or TI in a GA or a TW. Have fun.
I dont mean to side track from OP question though.
I stand by my original answer, PVP king because PVP pays their XMAS bonuses
That reason exists and will always exist. But history of the game can't be erasen either.At the very beginning shard chats didn't exist and I was eligible to get in one as I was able to place at the top without communication too. No idea if this could have been as viable if chats never existed afterwards, prolly not.
My shard kraken is one of the top players of the game as this is a week 1 shard. He is able to make even the not really meta viable teams daunting as he likes experimenting as well. His personal existence never presented a problem. Besides that there's simply no place in the game that I will encounter any of those top accounts, not GAC, not TW.
Unlike GA or TW, in arena (where crystals are obtained), you generally only need one team to compete. If you have that team maxed out, it doesn't matter that the TI/WW guy also has 75 other maxed characters that you don't have - you can beat him if you have the right team, and are competitive on mods.
[/quote]
Unlike GA or TW, in arena (where crystals are obtained), you generally only need one team to compete. If you have that team maxed out, it doesn't matter that the TI/WW guy also has 75 other maxed characters that you don't have - you can beat him if you have the right team, and are competitive on mods.[/quote]
Who do you think will have better mods? The guy who is FTP or the guy who has spent $30k?
Depends on how much they have each focused on farming mods and how lucky they have each been. The person who spent a lot is likely to have greater depth of mods, but again that affects GA/TW much more than it does squad arena, in which you only need one team. The f2p may well have a set of top tier arena mods.
There's a limit on top end mods. I only need one team's worth of top end mods for arena. The guy who spends a lot (and if you're talking about TI or WW level krakens, you should up that $30k number) is going to have a lot of teams with top end mods, but again, for arena it's one team's worth.
In my experience it's the ftp one who will have better mods tbh. P2W players tend to use money in place of time to get teams geared up, rarely is money spend on mods, so the ftp players had much more time infested in mods as they spelt gear up to that same point
Are you talking about now? Or throughout the entire recorded history of this game? If you're talking about now, I'm having a hard time believing you.
Also, this is the internet, and these are gamers. Lots of them will tell you all kinds of things that aren't true.
Such as: "I haven't spent a dime on this", "this is my first time playing", "I solo'd the raid on my first try I didn't even put any effort in" .. and "I have a girlfriend". <== haha, but some people really do lie about everything.
That said when this game first started PvP was the minority of activities and I really preferred it that way. PvP in this game is inherently flawed in so many ways. Matchmaking for GAC or TW doesn't factor secondary speed mods at all and it seems that G13 and zetas really don't weigh much if GP is all that is factored in.
For PvP games, which I still don't like for the most part, I prefer ones where player tactics, strategy and skill outweigh random elements like who has lucked into the fastest secondary speed mods. When mods were introduced, in my opinion, the potential for interesting PvP died.