When will the game have balance?
Been playing for over 3 years now. Lots of people are starting to quit because of the lack of balance since Revans introduction. Are there plans to make this game balanced? My CLS team even with chewie full zeta cant even crack the top 500 and now BH and NS squads are becoming obsulete.
1
- 61.6K General Discussion
- -35 Developer Q&A Archive
- 2.6K New Players
- 30.7K Arena and Character Strategy
- 3.2K Individual Events
- 5.5K Guild Events
- 4.7K PVP and Rivalry
- 51K Guild Recruitment
- 751 Art and Media
- 4.2K Off Topic
Howdy, Stranger!
Replies
Since the introduction of Jedi Knight Revan, they decided to straight up make things imbalanced. They have certain metrics that every team is not allowed to surpass against meta teams or they will be nerfed. Honestly, I don't see anything changing anytime soon.
Current counter teams get nerfed and once Darth Revan is no longer flavor of the month, the nerfed toons remain nerfed so moving forward they don't do quite as well even though they should've
They also tinkered with GG + Magnaguard to get rid of offensive counters (CLS + JKR). This game doesn't have balance as a consideration anymore. The developers realized they can do anything they want and get away with it and are abusing it considerably the past few months.
So this game will never be balanced.
It‘s incentivised to spend money to not be on the receiving end of the shaft but on the tip.
The only impediment to shifting this perception is the fact that Squad Arena is the best source of crystals (and hence FTP) in the game.
Additionally and tangentially, I hypothesize that removal of crystal sources from swgoh will mark the sudden, abrupt end of SWGOH entirely.
When these statements first came out I pondered a bit if they would ever take the courage to decrease arena rewards and move them over gac/tw. I'm rather sure they simply wouldn't add it on top of keeping arenas as is. And I doubt they can decrease arena POs as well, as that would result in a humoungous backlash. Even as an arena topper, I'd be totally up for that though.
Tired of hearing this. I’ve played balanced games that generate a lot of revenue. It’s possible, they just don’t want to do it.
To describe my comment, imagine they released a new character that combined with Lobot would beat DR/Malak consistently but lose to Gg or JKR or some other team. Having 3 or more teams that coexist in the meta would incentivize people spending gear for not 5 toons but 5 times the number of different meta teams. Plus, you don’t even need to create 5 new toons for each team since there are many weak toons that could be reworked as part of a new meta team.
It started long before the introduction of Revan(s). Power creep has "always" been part of the business model for this game. It goes all the way back to when characters like B2 and raid Han were introduced - and probably even before that. Rex and Leia come to mind.
Chase was the first significant power creep I think. They directly coupled with Rex -the luxury rancor raid item ofc.
"What is balance?" That is the question.
The OP seems hyper focused on arena balance, to the exclusion of the rest of the game.
There's a problem with that. Arena is inherently limiting. Five units. That's it. As the roster grows, one of two things can happen.
1) New content supplants old content in a sequence of metas, as is the structure right now.
2) Old content remains equally viable. This means the mode gives no active incentive to pursue new content, and the mode stagnates.
The game goes with option 1 for arena. This inherently limits the number of units relevant to arena at any one time. But...
What is balance?
If you define balance as all 176 units being relevant in arena at all times, then never. That will never happen. It is not a reasonable definition of balance. And the impracticalities of it are why CG is shifting primary attention away from squad arena and toward other goals.
Is it how many units are arena relevant? Let's clock that now. By my reckoning, regardless of popularity, there are five relevant squads right now. Darth Revan, Jedi Revan, Padme, Grievous, and CLS. And yes, CLS is relevant, even in the presence of Drevalak. Not great defensively, but does well enough defensively to stand among Kevans. If you can't crack top 500 with a CLS squad, it's probably your modding.
Devan: Devan, Karen, HK, Malak, SiT, Sith Marauder, GMY, Chewie, Thrawn
Kevan: JKR, Bastila, Jolee, GMY, GK, Ezra, Hoda, Thrawn
Padme: Padme, Anakin, GK, Snips, 3PO, R2, Shaak Ti, GMY, Barriss.
Grievous: Grievous, IG-88, T3-M4, BB-8, IPD, HK-47, R2, B1, B2.
CLS: CLS, Han, Chewie, C-3PO, R2, Ben, Thrawn.
That makes 32 units, accounting for overlap.
Last time I clocked relevant toons was somewhere post Talzin, pre-Kevan, in what's now regarded as one of the more diverse metas- not that it was given credit as such- and it was in the low forties. Some of those units were on that list (oddly, IG-88 makes it both times, but on very different teams). Most were not. Some units on this list are new. Most are very old. The Padme team can work with just one unit released after 2016, that being Padme herself, and assuming you run the anti-Kevan comp with Zarriss. While there are fewer useful options than there were back then, there's still a significant selection.
There's also another definition of balance. Dynamic balance, not perfect balance in a single moment, but rather balance where they revisit old content and give it a new chance to shine, whether through reworks or new faction members. Units get their time and place to shine, then wane, creating balance in the broader picture.
Balance can extend beyond squad arena as well. There are far more modes in the game than just that, after all. Last time I clocked the roster, it was less than a third of the roster I deemed "not useful," and I suspect that number has gone down, not up. For example, OP, you lament that your Bounty Hunters are "obsolete" based on their squad arena performance. But they were never a relevant squad arena team. They could get kinda meh results at one point, but that was it. However, your hunters are useful in fleet, both territory battles, the bounty board, heists, and they're still one of the most definitive teams for GAC and TW. If you have Aurra or Embo in there, then you could have a great hSith team, too; they're one of the most useful and flexible factions in the game.
Shifting attention from squad arena to other modes has dramatically improved relevance of a broader portion of the roster, and thus overall came balance. For certain definitions of balance. And some definitions of balance are more reasonable than others. That's not a change.
This is a game. It's artificial and designed. Everything is based off of metrics and projections. Every release is meant to do something. Some things are designed to be the next meta. Some are not. In the case of, "X OP, nerf now," they have to make that call somehow. Metrics are how they do it.
They're launched explicit meta killers many, many times in the past. Rex was designed to kill HK meta. R2 was a counter to Whack-a-Sith. The play environment is designed. That is nothing new.
It's also important to keep in mind context. It's not that no one was allowed to surpass Drevalak. It's that two specific things weren't allowed to. Palpatine and Revan. The previous two major metas. One already had four metas, and has been one of the most centralizing characters in the game's history. The other of which had been the most ubiquitous meta in history for the previous six months, and one of the least popular. Either is a failure state. If the counters had been First Order or Thrawntroopers, things that hadn't been so centralizing or recently problematic, I do not believe the devs would have reacted in the same way.
Also, your second example is terrible. CLS Rebels is one of the most powerful teams in the game, able to beat very nearly anything on offense including both Revans. Changing Grievous to be one of the few teams CLS matches badly against on offense does not make the game less balanced. I contend that it makes the game more balanced. The current Grievous can throw down at that level, but is not strictly better or worse. Meanwhile, even with the change, Jedi Knight Revan is still very strong against Grievous on offense, certainly not "eliminated," while the change lets Grievous fare well as a JKR counter on offense. You know, the thing people have been calling for more teams to be able to do for the last nine months. That is literally an example of a change that makes for a more balanced game.
stick rey made them add protection. Funny enough stick rey still remained one of the best toons after the alterations.
First one hit ohko toon, everyone was complaining about that which gave birth to protection and after a long time one hit ohkos are back xD.
Han OHKOing Maul is pretty much the single reason he was barely around for Sith meta.
It’s not a non for profit organization that’s why bud.
Where are you pulling your facts from?
>No one is allowed t surpass Drevalak
That is pretty much my point. What are you really disagreeing with?
>It's that two specific things weren't allowed to. Palpatine and Revan. The previous two major metas.
Says who? I didn't get the memo where they introduced Darth Revan and said, "Btw if anyone is able to beat this toon using Palpatine or Revan we will be nerfing those teams but every other team is ok"
Where are you getting this information that only Palpatine and Revan weren't allowed to beat this team but every other team was ok to beat it?
You talk a lot but there is nothing to back up your claims. "Palpatine had four metas"
I didn't know there was a rule in the game that said one toon cannot be more than 5 metas. Darth Nihilus has been included in the Rex Meta, Traya Meta, EP meta, Darth Revan meta (before Malak came out), Darth Maul meta
whoa that's five metas from the top of my head where is the Darth Nihilus nerf?
I can also say random stuff about a characters meta state but that is not a proof of anything. I literally posted dev comments supporting my claim and yours is "This is one of the strongest characters in the game's history so he isn't allowed to be meta anymore"
We've had past metas rise up again and again, CLS made a lot of returns for example, when Chewbacca came, when C3PO came.
>If the counters had been First Order or Thrawntroopers, things that hadn't been so centralizing or recently problematic, I do not believe the devs would have reacted in the same way.
AGAIN
where is your proof? This is your argument?
"Hey this C list weak team that can't win against any B team let alone S-Rank tier team, if they won devs wouldn't nerf so you see you are wrong and i am right and those toons that were past meta like EP needed a nerf"
The reason why they wouldn't react that way is because those teams are incapable of countering them. If they were able to they would nerf it
Are you forgetting about zFinn?
I am sure you can just tell me its a 3 year old zeta so it needed the nerf
Anakin was beating Darth Revan teams with NS Zombie lead, lets not pretend Thrawntroopers or some random oddball combo teams wouldn't be nerf
Please do not claim how the developers will react to dismiss arguments when we have developer actions proving otherwise
Don't you get it? We are not in balance...
Should cg fugure it out in 4?
There was some balanced until traya happened
Um the most powerful being in the galaxy, emperor palpatine not jedi knight revan who got his back handed to him by vitiate who is less powerful then palpatine so no commander should beat the jedi lords and ancient Sith other wise game will be staleeeeeeeeeeee
I honestly checked the date because I was sure this had to be a necro.
To answer your question, there will never be balance in squad arena because balance is not profitable. It's not going to happen. Just forget about it. Needing the One True Squad plus godlike mods to compete means people with poor impulse control will go absolutely bananas trying to get it. If any one of four or five teams can make it to the top, that's a lot of revenue out the window. If that means it's bad game by your estimate, just do yourself a favor and quit now.
Grand Arena, however, rewards you for building out a variety of strong teams. I've always hated squad arena and only grudgingly played it for crystals, but GAC has renewed my interest in PVP because it's no longer about who has one absolutely godlike team - you can do well with just a handful of good teams if you strategize properly. Ignore the doomsayers who claim you "can't compete without Malak." He's an advantage, sure, but most people don't have him, and those that do can still be beaten.