Something is rotten in the state of GAC

Replies

  • Acrofales wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    @Acrofales does your pertinent gp match with any of them? If not, naturally they didn't meet any competition such as you.

    One in the list is from my guild and I know how crazy tactical that person can play it to the utmost capability of his roster.


    I didn't fight any of these players. I am also not accusing them of cheating. And in fact, I think it's great that there are upsets happening. But the ranking as is, unfortunately gives us no way of distinguishing someone who legitimately punches way above his weight class, someone who was matched with chumps and lucked his way to the top, and, yes, someone who cheated.


    Many, many, many, people are "crazy tactical" and can play their rosters, very many people. You've made a good case, as there are those that do cheat and are very subtle and good at that...to keep from being obvious. I, also, would question severely your point, good catch.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Secondly, it actually makes sense that from a division a "mid level" GP would have a chance to get more points than the "top dogs", some possible reasons are- facing slightly easier defenses, which could lead to more feats being completed, more points gained from teams/zones cleared, and general wins

    I think you mean that in the context of GAC and the way we understand matchmaking to work it's not surprising. It definitely doesn't "make sense" if you consider this to be a competition and the leaderboard to be reflective of the best.

    Why not, to get there that player had to win almost the exactly the same amount as the players around them, and then also found ways to score more points within the given system.

    I think you know why not and are playing dumb. I'll humor you regardless. Because you're not ranking players based on the same conditions. It's the same reason college football in the USA goes to great lengths to heavily weight conference play and discount games vs lower divisions.

    A person with a GP that puts them at the lower end of D1 is more likely to be able to clear all 4 zones than someone at the top. The lower GP player will then be higher on the leader board. You can't draw any conclusions about which one is more skilled until they face off, which is very unlikely in the current setup.
    Kyno wrote: »
    You dont have to have the beat vocabulary to win at scrabble, a little luck and the better understanding of the point system will prevail.

    Comparing GAC to Scrabble is absurd and you know it. You don't bring your own letters to Scrabble. It's a game entirely of skill.

    You bring your own roster, and mods, to GAC and this can have a significant impact on how much skill you need to win as well as who you might play.

    If CG gave each division a set of characters (say, 100 G12 for D1, 80 G12 for D2, and so on) and the same set of mods to choose from you could remove the variance introduced by roster differences and then compare it to Scrabble.
    Kyno wrote: »
    The major driving force is absolutely the win record, after that there is some "skill" to gaining points.

    That's exactly the point. Not all wins are equal and considering them to be equal, as the current leaderboard does, is a flawed way to show who the "best" is.
  • The players at the top scored the most points within the rules of the competition, therefore they win. How hard is this to understand?
    This just sounds like more whales blubbering about not reaching the top of the ego board when they have dumped more cash into the game than the players who "beat" them. It doesn't matter if you could have beat them head-to-head, they outscored you. Better luck next time.
    Congratulations to the winners! You probably have awesome mods.
  • evoluza wrote: »
    Naver666 wrote: »
    I don't think the leaderboard was meant to show the one player that can beat every other player face to face. Its about collecting a score. MM is a tool to keep chances equal across all GP Tiers. Even if MM needs adjustment i thought it was meant this way, that a lower player has the same chance to climb the leaderboard. After all his task was the same as for top tier Players. Beat others that are compareable to himself and do it as efficently as possible.

    League Promotion
    Over the course of a Championship, as players hit certain Championship Score milestones, they will be promoted to the next League. Upon League Promotion, you’re not only immediately granted an automatic reward, you’re also eligible for higher rewards from your new league. With higher league promotions comes a tougher set of opponents in the next Grand Arena, and, of course, even bigger bragging rights. For the first time ever in Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes, we are introducing global leaderboards, so you’ll finally be able to answer the question: **Do you have what it takes to be the greatest in the galaxy?**

    Yea i get that but what is defining the "best" or "greatest". Someone with 3mil GP for example does not have a roster to compete with someone who has 5mil. He competes with compareable opponents. Same does the top tier player. If the 3mil guy is more efficient in doing so and earns a bigger score he "can" be considered a more skilled player. I don't agree with that either but it is one way to look at it. We wouldn't need ANY matchmaking if we just seek the guy who crushes us all
  • The players at the top scored the most points within the rules of the competition, therefore they win.

    This is fine. I don't really have an issue with it. CG did ask for feedback on this exhibition though and my point of view is that the leaderboards, even though they are working as intended as you point out, don't tell us anything interesting.

    It's like they took the EPL, EFL One, and EFL Two and showed them all in one table. Your point would still stand here too. If an EFL Two team was at the top of the table it would be because "scored the most points within the rules of the competition." But the table wouldn't tell the story of the season or who played who or who would likely win head to head. All things people enjoy seeing in a table or leaderboard.
  • Brownie
    298 posts Member
    Congratulations to the winners! You probably have awesome mods.

    No many of them don't have awesome mods. That is exactly the point. Their competition was so bad, they didn't have to face anyone good (anyone with awesome mods). Some of these guys have such bad mods that they cant even get into the top 10 of their own arena shards.
  • Prosser wrote: »
    Just an observation, but the guy in first has 88 g12. At his gp you have to field what, 8 teams? That means you need 80 toons at least, 40 def, and 40 offense, if you clear all in one battle. None of the rest of the ones you shared can field a full 80 g12+ toons on off and def, so they have to go weaker on def and keep a strong offense or strong def and have a weaker offense. He can do both. Plus if he is diligent to finish the feats, that will bolster his score more.

    Not to knock OP... But this.

    This was an overall roster event. Not a top 5 toons event like squad arena is.
    You can only use your top 5 once.
    Depth counts too.
  • Dk_rek
    3299 posts Member
    Change title of OP to something is rotten in the history of CG and current CG operating principals.
  • TRanger
    329 posts Member
    Excellent post. I think they did themselves a major disservice by creating a leaderboard and calling it a championship. If they just called it Progressive Grand Arena and left the rankings out of it, a lot of the disdain for the feature would have gone away. At least mine would have.

    Top end players like to compete but, based on your findings, that competition does not appear to be happening on an "even" playing field.

    I'd prefer they scrap the whole thing, go back to the old GA format (with whatever MM you want, couldn't care less at this point) with the old rewards structure.

    You can only call it progressive grand arena when you can progress. This Is a weekly reset on the bottom..and feel good "stars" for doing feats that you were able to draw random...or sacrifice current standings just to acheave.
  • It's so plainly obvious being in lower divisions is better. When they launched this, they claimed you'd want to be in div1, wheel I was and please put me in 2 or 3.

    I care less about the leader board, and far more that I'm once again punished for having a more developed roster.
  • Brownie wrote: »
    Congratulations to the winners! You probably have awesome mods.

    No many of them don't have awesome mods. That is exactly the point. Their competition was so bad, they didn't have to face anyone good (anyone with awesome mods). Some of these guys have such bad mods that they cant even get into the top 10 of their own arena shards.

    sour grapes
    clwng7N.gif
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    It's so plainly obvious being in lower divisions is better. When they launched this, they claimed you'd want to be in div1, wheel I was and please put me in 2 or 3.

    I care less about the leader board, and far more that I'm once again punished for having a more developed roster.

    Define developed
  • The players at the top scored the most points within the rules of the competition, therefore they win. How hard is this to understand?
    This just sounds like more whales blubbering about not reaching the top of the ego board when they have dumped more cash into the game than the players who "beat" them. It doesn't matter if you could have beat them head-to-head, they outscored you. Better luck next time.
    Congratulations to the winners! You probably have awesome mods.

    I’d recommend to go check the mods of the winner yourself. Very enlightening. ;)
  • Prosser wrote: »
    Just an observation, but the guy in first has 88 g12. At his gp you have to field what, 8 teams? That means you need 80 toons at least, 40 def, and 40 offense, if you clear all in one battle. None of the rest of the ones you shared can field a full 80 g12+ toons on off and def, so they have to go weaker on def and keep a strong offense or strong def and have a weaker offense. He can do both. Plus if he is diligent to finish the feats, that will bolster his score more.

    Not to knock OP... But this.

    This was an overall roster event. Not a top 5 toons event like squad arena is.
    You can only use your top 5 once.
    Depth counts too.

    I agree. I also take these current "exhibition" rankings with a grain of salt since we're still in the exhibition phase. But I guess everyone was expecting the top people to have a 400speed sith empire squad or something....

    Just for a small snapshot of an example, I can use myself. I don't have anywhere near the best roster( I have 0 G13s and still field zpalp in squad arena!). Most of these matchups in GAC, I have been outmatched in terms of comparing squad arena teams, comparing speeds of legendary/hero's journey toons, etc... But I still have won nearly all of my matches because I can apparently find a better balance than my opponents when it comes to fielding multiple teams for defense without sacrificing too much offense and defeating multiple teams efficiently... winning the numbers game by using undersized squad, finishing with full hp and protection and whatnot... Sure, if it was a battle where it was my top team vs their top teams, I'd probably lose in spectacular fashion, but this isn't the case.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Acrofales wrote: »
    However, upon closer analysis, we see this cannot be "the 10 best SWGOH players" by any stretch of the imagination.

    [...]

    But between matchmaking and the specter of cheating, the leaderboard is meaningless.

    You appear to be under the false assumption, that the rankings are lists of the best players in the game. It's not. It's a list of the top scorers in GAC, and as such it makes perfect sense. Don't read too much into the list.

  • Waqui wrote: »
    Acrofales wrote: »
    However, upon closer analysis, we see this cannot be "the 10 best SWGOH players" by any stretch of the imagination.

    [...]

    But between matchmaking and the specter of cheating, the leaderboard is meaningless.

    You appear to be under the false assumption, that the rankings are lists of the best players in the game. It's not. It's a list of the top scorers in GAC, and as such it makes perfect sense. Don't read too much into the list.

    If that's all it is, and I agree that that is what is currently is, then GAC fails to live up to the Championship title.

    vmsk6h4tiasp.jpeg
  • You probably have awesome mods.

    They actually don't based on what I looked at. They likely had favorable match ups. When your only playing 15 people total to get your score, its a very small sample size. If you get put in groups of offensive oriented people or with people who don't care and set g8 characters on defense, you have a massive opportunity to score big.

  • JediRobb wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »

    If that's all it is, and I agree that that is what is currently is, then GAC fails to live up to the Championship title.

    vmsk6h4tiasp.jpeg

    Because "championship" is nothing but marketing hype.

    Seems like it. Doesn't mean I have to like it.
  • It's so plainly obvious being in lower divisions is better. When they launched this, they claimed you'd want to be in div1, wheel I was and please put me in 2 or 3.

    I care less about the leader board, and far more that I'm once again punished for having a more developed roster.

    No, you don't want to be in D2, trust me, nobody does. D1, D3 or D5 are best choices to get highest rewards with less work. D1 is actually preety mellow and balanced.
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    I can't speak to anyone's experience but my own, but I can confirm that going 11-1 in Division 2 with every feat finished except the GG one, then seeing I was 350 points shy of Kyber, was pretty deflating.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • The similarities are striking....

    uugawk69we5c.jpeg
  • jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Acrofales wrote: »
    However, upon closer analysis, we see this cannot be "the 10 best SWGOH players" by any stretch of the imagination.

    [...]

    But between matchmaking and the specter of cheating, the leaderboard is meaningless.

    You appear to be under the false assumption, that the rankings are lists of the best players in the game. It's not. It's a list of the top scorers in GAC, and as such it makes perfect sense. Don't read too much into the list.

    If that's all it is, and I agree that that is what is currently is, then GAC fails to live up to the Championship title.

    vmsk6h4tiasp.jpeg

    Ask the NCAA about their football championship sometime
  • jhbuchholz
    1966 posts Member
    edited August 2019
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Acrofales wrote: »
    However, upon closer analysis, we see this cannot be "the 10 best SWGOH players" by any stretch of the imagination.

    [...]

    But between matchmaking and the specter of cheating, the leaderboard is meaningless.

    You appear to be under the false assumption, that the rankings are lists of the best players in the game. It's not. It's a list of the top scorers in GAC, and as such it makes perfect sense. Don't read too much into the list.

    If that's all it is, and I agree that that is what is currently is, then GAC fails to live up to the Championship title.

    vmsk6h4tiasp.jpeg

    Ask the NCAA about their football championship sometime

    You mean the one where they go to great lengths to analyze each game, provide in depth analytics, and have a panel of people decide how important each win and loss is? The one where they admit that not every victory is equal and a smaller school like UCF can go undefeated and not be automatically declared #1 (which is exactly what GAC would do)?

    I think it's a great comparison and would love if CG looked to it for ideas.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    edited August 2019
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Acrofales wrote: »
    However, upon closer analysis, we see this cannot be "the 10 best SWGOH players" by any stretch of the imagination.

    [...]

    But between matchmaking and the specter of cheating, the leaderboard is meaningless.

    You appear to be under the false assumption, that the rankings are lists of the best players in the game. It's not. It's a list of the top scorers in GAC, and as such it makes perfect sense. Don't read too much into the list.

    If that's all it is, and I agree that that is what is currently is, then GAC fails to live up to the Championship title.

    vmsk6h4tiasp.jpeg

    The top ranking players in GAC are the top scorers in this competition - hence the best in this competition. Lives up perfectly well to your quote from the dictionary. You're wrong.

    No, they are not necessarily "the best SWGOH players". They are simply the top scorers of this GAC.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Acrofales wrote: »
    However, upon closer analysis, we see this cannot be "the 10 best SWGOH players" by any stretch of the imagination.

    [...]

    But between matchmaking and the specter of cheating, the leaderboard is meaningless.

    You appear to be under the false assumption, that the rankings are lists of the best players in the game. It's not. It's a list of the top scorers in GAC, and as such it makes perfect sense. Don't read too much into the list.

    If that's all it is, and I agree that that is what is currently is, then GAC fails to live up to the Championship title.

    vmsk6h4tiasp.jpeg
    You're wrong.

    *sigh* this again. Talking to you is a literal slap in the face.
  • CCyrilS
    6732 posts Member
    Anyone consider that the whales who just sit at #1 and only do a couple mirror matches a day actually have far less battle experience and are at a huge disadvantage?

    Those of us who have spent 3 years reading, researching, and trying new things might actually be better at GAC.
  • jhbuchholz wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Acrofales wrote: »
    However, upon closer analysis, we see this cannot be "the 10 best SWGOH players" by any stretch of the imagination.

    [...]

    But between matchmaking and the specter of cheating, the leaderboard is meaningless.

    You appear to be under the false assumption, that the rankings are lists of the best players in the game. It's not. It's a list of the top scorers in GAC, and as such it makes perfect sense. Don't read too much into the list.

    If that's all it is, and I agree that that is what is currently is, then GAC fails to live up to the Championship title.

    vmsk6h4tiasp.jpeg

    Ask the NCAA about their football championship sometime

    You mean the one where they go to great lengths to analyze each game, provide in depth analytics, and have a panel of people decide how important each win and loss is? The one where they admit that not every victory is equal and a smaller school like UCF can go undefeated and not be automatically declared #1 (which is exactly what GAC would do)?

    I think it's a great comparison and would love if CG looked to it for ideas.

    LOL every year the NCAA is criticized because their championship system is flawed. It's very possible UCF does have the better team, but we'll never know because the system won't allow it.
    It's the system we have. It ain't perfect but it's there. And aint nobody going to analyze each SWGOH match and do some mystery voodoo points system ranking based on good old boy votes to determine who should be #1. No, it has to be a concrete earning system, and that's what we have.
  • jhbuchholz wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Acrofales wrote: »
    However, upon closer analysis, we see this cannot be "the 10 best SWGOH players" by any stretch of the imagination.

    [...]

    But between matchmaking and the specter of cheating, the leaderboard is meaningless.

    You appear to be under the false assumption, that the rankings are lists of the best players in the game. It's not. It's a list of the top scorers in GAC, and as such it makes perfect sense. Don't read too much into the list.

    If that's all it is, and I agree that that is what is currently is, then GAC fails to live up to the Championship title.

    vmsk6h4tiasp.jpeg

    Ask the NCAA about their football championship sometime

    You mean the one where they go to great lengths to analyze each game, provide in depth analytics, and have a panel of people decide how important each win and loss is? The one where they admit that not every victory is equal and a smaller school like UCF can go undefeated and not be automatically declared #1 (which is exactly what GAC would do)?

    I think it's a great comparison and would love if CG looked to it for ideas.

    LOL every year the NCAA is criticized because their championship system is flawed. It's very possible UCF does have the better team, but we'll never know because the system won't allow it.
    It's the system we have. It ain't perfect but it's there. And aint nobody going to analyze each SWGOH match and do some mystery voodoo points system ranking based on good old boy votes to determine who should be #1. No, it has to be a concrete earning system, and that's what we have.

    While this is all true they at least make an effort to have a competition to decide the best football team in the country each year. GAC doesn't even try to determine the best SWGoH PvP players. Just the ones that score the most points in random matchups (from a highly criticized matchmaking system) of a made up scoring system. It would be kind of like declaring the team with the most prolific offence the NCAA Champion each year. I'm sure a very good team would win, just like I'm sure the top 50 of GAC are very good players. And I'm also sure Alabama would have a legitimate complaint.

    We're kind of off in the weeds here. My overall point isn't that the leaderboard is bad in its current iteration. Just that it's not as good as it could be.
  • Evie prevails when gud men are pban or suspenders
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