The Rise of Skywalker

Replies

  • Boo wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    A good story connecting the movies with proper character development, overall story arc and good characters etc. is what was needed and this entire trilogy fell short.

    Character development and good characters are not a hallmark of Star Wars movies. Luke isn't a likable character for half of the original trilogy and Anakin isn't likable for really any part of the prequel trilogy. Both do most of their character development between movies and sometimes even between scenes.

    But if you're comfortable deciding a movie is garbage without even watching it I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you're also willing to hold more recent Star Wars movies to a higher standard than the originals achieved.

    Lukes character progression was throughout the entire OT. Even him leaving Tatooine and going with Obi Wan was a character progression and he even started training in that movie - Rey just leaves and has 0 training and is instantly good at everything. We see Luke go through (what seems to be weeks) or intense training and see him struggle against Vader as well as lose his hand.

    We also root for Luke as the hero, because we see his struggles, his failings and how he grows as a character to overcome those to save his friends and the galaxy.

    With Anakin we see a small yet talented child, be forced to leave his mother in order for a better life and fulfill his destiny, and how he adapts to life as a Jedi. We see many struggles he has including his forbidden love for Padme, and how we as an audience sympathise with that and want them to find happiness together and follow their hearts. Come ROTS Padme is pregnant and Anakin is trying to everything he can to do what is right while save his family and unborn child/ren - while being consumed by the temptations of the darkside to make it all right.

    We get none of this with Rey - instantly good at everything, no failings and no training. TLJ immediately follows on fromt he events of TFA and there she goes wielding lightsabers and pulling off crazy stuff with her power of the force, lol.

    Except we see her doing some self-training at least in TROS, but Luke and Anakin both had the benefit of being taught by masters of the Jedi and their stories spanning years in their respective trilogies. Rey relies on old Jedi books and some convoluted idea that she holds the power of all jedi - isn't that convenient?


    Her character is an OP boring mess.

    So no, nothing like the original movies at all, if you really think so, then re-watch or continue lying to yourself.

    Yeah, maybe you should actually watch the movie before using falsehoods in your argument.

    Regarding Rey and her struggles: the entire Rey story arc is about her struggling, but with a much more relatable struggle than either Luke or Anakin. Luke's struggle is all about becoming powerful enough to sway his lost father back to the light, and Anakin is all about becoming powerful enough to save the ones he loves (so very similar). Rey's struggle is all internal, a personal struggle between two paths (good and evil), and it really shows up in full force in the movie you have not watched.
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  • Boo wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    @Boo

    Funny. Most of your points regarding TROS clearly show you're piecing your opinion together having decided to not watch it. Much of your complaints regarding it are clearly coming from an assumed plot based on "leaks" and trailers.

    It is very far from perfect, and very far from being the best Star Wars movie, but your complaints about Rey are misguided when it comes to this installment.

    Then please explain.

    Because my points as to what happens in this movie are correct, and for me this just tears apart all other prior star wars.

    So if Rey doesn't have all the power of prior Jedi, become the Chosen One over Anakin and destroy the sith and save the day - please tell me where I am wrong, I am all ears...

    1. If you interpret a character who heard some force ghost voices and then exclaimed " I am all the jedi" as meaning she has the power of everyone, then sure. Or you could just take it like every other time that someone in Star Wars has been aided by a force ghost and not overreact. I can only image when Luke blows up the Death Star "OMGZ! Luke is LITERALLY the powers of himself and Kenobi because Kenobi's ghost talked to him!"

    2. The chosen one was a dumb storyline made up for the prequels, and I don't recall anything in this movie that references any sort of chosen one. Thankfully that died with ROTS.

    3. yes, the hero of the story defeats the bad guy. congrats, you can have that one.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Idc about Rey knowing the force so quickly, I don’t need a rehash of years of training for 3 movies.

    I didn’t particularly like ROS for other reasons. It may be as I grow older I want a little something more in the writing department. But again it’s SW it has never and probably will never have that.

    It felt more like a corporate response to internet outrage of tlj.

    Again, I’m happy the Skywalker saga is over. I hope with Disney we get a lot more SW things. It’s a chance to really dive into a big world with a lot of cool and terrible characters.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    A good story connecting the movies with proper character development, overall story arc and good characters etc. is what was needed and this entire trilogy fell short.

    Character development and good characters are not a hallmark of Star Wars movies. Luke isn't a likable character for half of the original trilogy and Anakin isn't likable for really any part of the prequel trilogy. Both do most of their character development between movies and sometimes even between scenes.

    But if you're comfortable deciding a movie is garbage without even watching it I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you're also willing to hold more recent Star Wars movies to a higher standard than the originals achieved.

    Lukes character progression was throughout the entire OT. Even him leaving Tatooine and going with Obi Wan was a character progression and he even started training in that movie - Rey just leaves and has 0 training and is instantly good at everything. We see Luke go through (what seems to be weeks) or intense training and see him struggle against Vader as well as lose his hand.

    We also root for Luke as the hero, because we see his struggles, his failings and how he grows as a character to overcome those to save his friends and the galaxy.

    With Anakin we see a small yet talented child, be forced to leave his mother in order for a better life and fulfill his destiny, and how he adapts to life as a Jedi. We see many struggles he has including his forbidden love for Padme, and how we as an audience sympathise with that and want them to find happiness together and follow their hearts. Come ROTS Padme is pregnant and Anakin is trying to everything he can to do what is right while save his family and unborn child/ren - while being consumed by the temptations of the darkside to make it all right.

    We get none of this with Rey - instantly good at everything, no failings and no training. TLJ immediately follows on fromt he events of TFA and there she goes wielding lightsabers and pulling off crazy stuff with her power of the force, lol.

    Except we see her doing some self-training at least in TROS, but Luke and Anakin both had the benefit of being taught by masters of the Jedi and their stories spanning years in their respective trilogies. Rey relies on old Jedi books and some convoluted idea that she holds the power of all jedi - isn't that convenient?


    Her character is an OP boring mess.

    So no, nothing like the original movies at all, if you really think so, then re-watch or continue lying to yourself.

    Yeah, maybe you should actually watch the movie before using falsehoods in your argument.

    Regarding Rey and her struggles: the entire Rey story arc is about her struggling, but with a much more relatable struggle than either Luke or Anakin. Luke's struggle is all about becoming powerful enough to sway his lost father back to the light, and Anakin is all about becoming powerful enough to save the ones he loves (so very similar). Rey's struggle is all internal, a personal struggle between two paths (good and evil), and it really shows up in full force in the movie you have not watched.

    Again - Anakin and Luke as heroes have their story arc explained and grow through their entire trilogies.

    Rey, not so. Always good at everything all the time and then boom she has some struggles in the final movie, because of lack of character development through the rest of her trilogy - its terrible.

    That's the thing with this movie - lets just try to throw everything into it to retcon everything they screwed up with and its a mess.

    Finn being force sensitive - that was obvious from TFA by being able to leave the FO where no other trooper has or could.

    Instead of developing that, we got a long-winded side plot to a Casino city in TLJ, all of a sudden for it to be revisited in TROS - no character development, although more than Rey at least :smile:
  • Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    A good story connecting the movies with proper character development, overall story arc and good characters etc. is what was needed and this entire trilogy fell short.

    Character development and good characters are not a hallmark of Star Wars movies. Luke isn't a likable character for half of the original trilogy and Anakin isn't likable for really any part of the prequel trilogy. Both do most of their character development between movies and sometimes even between scenes.

    But if you're comfortable deciding a movie is garbage without even watching it I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you're also willing to hold more recent Star Wars movies to a higher standard than the originals achieved.

    Lukes character progression was throughout the entire OT. Even him leaving Tatooine and going with Obi Wan was a character progression and he even started training in that movie - Rey just leaves and has 0 training and is instantly good at everything. We see Luke go through (what seems to be weeks) or intense training and see him struggle against Vader as well as lose his hand.

    We also root for Luke as the hero, because we see his struggles, his failings and how he grows as a character to overcome those to save his friends and the galaxy.

    With Anakin we see a small yet talented child, be forced to leave his mother in order for a better life and fulfill his destiny, and how he adapts to life as a Jedi. We see many struggles he has including his forbidden love for Padme, and how we as an audience sympathise with that and want them to find happiness together and follow their hearts. Come ROTS Padme is pregnant and Anakin is trying to everything he can to do what is right while save his family and unborn child/ren - while being consumed by the temptations of the darkside to make it all right.

    We get none of this with Rey - instantly good at everything, no failings and no training. TLJ immediately follows on fromt he events of TFA and there she goes wielding lightsabers and pulling off crazy stuff with her power of the force, lol.

    Except we see her doing some self-training at least in TROS, but Luke and Anakin both had the benefit of being taught by masters of the Jedi and their stories spanning years in their respective trilogies. Rey relies on old Jedi books and some convoluted idea that she holds the power of all jedi - isn't that convenient?


    Her character is an OP boring mess.

    So no, nothing like the original movies at all, if you really think so, then re-watch or continue lying to yourself.

    Yeah, maybe you should actually watch the movie before using falsehoods in your argument.

    Regarding Rey and her struggles: the entire Rey story arc is about her struggling, but with a much more relatable struggle than either Luke or Anakin. Luke's struggle is all about becoming powerful enough to sway his lost father back to the light, and Anakin is all about becoming powerful enough to save the ones he loves (so very similar). Rey's struggle is all internal, a personal struggle between two paths (good and evil), and it really shows up in full force in the movie you have not watched.

    Again - Anakin and Luke as heroes have their story arc explained and grow through their entire trilogies.

    Rey, not so. Always good at everything all the time and then boom she has some struggles in the final movie, because of lack of character development through the rest of her trilogy - its terrible.

    That's the thing with this movie - lets just try to throw everything into it to retcon everything they screwed up with and its a mess.

    Finn being force sensitive - that was obvious from TFA by being able to leave the FO where no other trooper has or could.

    Instead of developing that, we got a long-winded side plot to a Casino city in TLJ, all of a sudden for it to be revisited in TROS - no character development, although more than Rey at least :smile:

    Wow, you really have missed the entirety of the Rey plot line haven't you? Rey's entire struggles in the trilogy are internal, battling with herself between good and evil and with her past (both discovering it and reconciling it).

    And how is it obvious that someone needs to be force sensitive to desert a military outfit? Also, if you had actually watched TRoS you would know he is far from the only one.
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  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    Boo wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    @Boo

    Funny. Most of your points regarding TROS clearly show you're piecing your opinion together having decided to not watch it. Much of your complaints regarding it are clearly coming from an assumed plot based on "leaks" and trailers.

    It is very far from perfect, and very far from being the best Star Wars movie, but your complaints about Rey are misguided when it comes to this installment.

    Then please explain.

    Because my points as to what happens in this movie are correct, and for me this just tears apart all other prior star wars.

    So if Rey doesn't have all the power of prior Jedi, become the Chosen One over Anakin and destroy the sith and save the day - please tell me where I am wrong, I am all ears...

    1. If you interpret a character who heard some force ghost voices and then exclaimed " I am all the jedi" as meaning she has the power of everyone, then sure. Or you could just take it like every other time that someone in Star Wars has been aided by a force ghost and not overreact. I can only image when Luke blows up the Death Star "OMGZ! Luke is LITERALLY the powers of himself and Kenobi because Kenobi's ghost talked to him!"

    2. The chosen one was a dumb storyline made up for the prequels, and I don't recall anything in this movie that references any sort of chosen one. Thankfully that died with ROTS.

    3. yes, the hero of the story defeats the bad guy. congrats, you can have that one.

    1. Luke was strong in the force being the son of Anakin - genetics being a key component as to who is more powerful in the force was already established in the OT. In ANH, Luke destroys the death star by piloting a ship he is familiar with (same controls and make as his T-16), driving down a trench hew was familiar in doing (piloting his said T-16 down Beggar's Canyon) and making a bullseye shot on the exhaust port, being about 2 meters in size (same size as Womp Rats that he would bullseye on Tatooin in his T-16). He gets a voice of encouragement from Obi Wan to trust his feelings - a power which he trained with Obi Wan in the Falcon with his lightsaber against remotes - and what was the power of force ghosts are you talking about? Is it when Obi Wan says that he cannot get involved in Luke choosing to face Vader?

    2. The Chosen One was a running theme brought into the lore of the franchise by its creator, George Lucas. Like it or not, Lucas created star wars and the prophecy of the chosen one to tell his "Skywalker story" about love, evil and redemption. He also confirmed that Anakin was the chosen one and that prophecy was fulfilled in ROTJ. Bringing back Palpatine/Sith proves that the prophecy was not fulfilled, and that by having Anakin's ghost, being one of many acting through Rey, she has the Power to destroy the Sith - she therefore brought balance to the Force - Rey, NOT ANAKIN. Again, this is lore breaking.

    3. Yes the hero destroys the bad guy, lol. Palpatine was never meant to be in this trilogy. His very existence in this movie is lore breaking. With Johnson killing off Snoke, JJ brought in Palps because the story needed a villain bigger than Kylo Ren and some nostalgia may win back some gullible fans. Palpatine's story ended in ROTJ, by Anakin completing his prophecy. Again, Rey defeating Palpatine is lore breaking. Furthermore this story just degrades all star wars 1-6, for the sake of what? Rey? Why?
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Idc about Rey knowing the force so quickly, I don’t need a rehash of years of training for 3 movies.

    I didn’t particularly like ROS for other reasons. It may be as I grow older I want a little something more in the writing department. But again it’s SW it has never and probably will never have that.

    It felt more like a corporate response to internet outrage of tlj.

    Again, I’m happy the Skywalker saga is over. I hope with Disney we get a lot more SW things. It’s a chance to really dive into a big world with a lot of cool and terrible characters.

    I hope Disney has learned its lesson from the ST. A huge blip in their radar for sure.

    The annoying thing is Disney can do great star wars. Rebels was good, Solo was good, but Rogue One and (so far) the Mandalorian are pretty epic.

    They need to have established an overall storyline if they do another trilogy or set of connecting movies. The ST was just a mess, in a timeline not needing to be added to, with themes already concluded in the movies before. The ST is just pointless, that craps on established characters, lore and stories (essentially all other star wars films prior to TFA) its like this sequel trilogy lives in its own little bubble - that is good, as I can pretend it doesn't exist.

    But Disney has the money and power to put forward excellent creative teams and push the star wars brand forward in a respectful, well written manner that keeps all fans hungry for more.

    Not slow down, take a hiatus because of some made up thing called "star wars fatigue". Just make good content - that's all we want.

    Some nostalgia is nice from time to time as a little nod, but don't drown the audience with it, because that all you got left after making bad decision after bad decision.

    Just make good star wars going forward, take the lesson of the ST and move on - we are eagerly waiting.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    @Boo

    Funny. Most of your points regarding TROS clearly show you're piecing your opinion together having decided to not watch it. Much of your complaints regarding it are clearly coming from an assumed plot based on "leaks" and trailers.

    It is very far from perfect, and very far from being the best Star Wars movie, but your complaints about Rey are misguided when it comes to this installment.

    Then please explain.

    Because my points as to what happens in this movie are correct, and for me this just tears apart all other prior star wars.

    So if Rey doesn't have all the power of prior Jedi, become the Chosen One over Anakin and destroy the sith and save the day - please tell me where I am wrong, I am all ears...

    1. If you interpret a character who heard some force ghost voices and then exclaimed " I am all the jedi" as meaning she has the power of everyone, then sure. Or you could just take it like every other time that someone in Star Wars has been aided by a force ghost and not overreact. I can only image when Luke blows up the Death Star "OMGZ! Luke is LITERALLY the powers of himself and Kenobi because Kenobi's ghost talked to him!"

    2. The chosen one was a dumb storyline made up for the prequels, and I don't recall anything in this movie that references any sort of chosen one. Thankfully that died with ROTS.

    3. yes, the hero of the story defeats the bad guy. congrats, you can have that one.

    1. Luke was strong in the force being the son of Anakin - genetics being a key component as to who is more powerful in the force was already established in the OT. In ANH, Luke destroys the death star by piloting a ship he is familiar with (same controls and make as his T-16), driving down a trench hew was familiar in doing (piloting his said T-16 down Beggar's Canyon) and making a bullseye shot on the exhaust port, being about 2 meters in size (same size as Womp Rats that he would bullseye on Tatooin in his T-16). He gets a voice of encouragement from Obi Wan to trust his feelings - a power which he trained with Obi Wan in the Falcon with his lightsaber against remotes - and what was the power of force ghosts are you talking about? Is it when Obi Wan says that he cannot get involved in Luke choosing to face Vader?

    2. The Chosen One was a running theme brought into the lore of the franchise by its creator, George Lucas. Like it or not, Lucas created star wars and the prophecy of the chosen one to tell his "Skywalker story" about love, evil and redemption. He also confirmed that Anakin was the chosen one and that prophecy was fulfilled in ROTJ. Bringing back Palpatine/Sith proves that the prophecy was not fulfilled, and that by having Anakin's ghost, being one of many acting through Rey, she has the Power to destroy the Sith - she therefore brought balance to the Force - Rey, NOT ANAKIN. Again, this is lore breaking.

    3. Yes the hero destroys the bad guy, lol. Palpatine was never meant to be in this trilogy. His very existence in this movie is lore breaking. With Johnson killing off Snoke, JJ brought in Palps because the story needed a villain bigger than Kylo Ren and some nostalgia may win back some gullible fans. Palpatine's story ended in ROTJ, by Anakin completing his prophecy. Again, Rey defeating Palpatine is lore breaking. Furthermore this story just degrades all star wars 1-6, for the sake of what? Rey? Why?

    1. See, right there. I say 'Rey heard ghosts and it gave here strength (just like Luke)" and you see "Rey was literally all jedi". I say "Luke heard a ghost and it gave him strength/confidence" and you see "Luke did everything completely on his own".

    2. Why does palp coming back need to undo the prophecy? Did anyone in canon ever actually say the prophecy? Its never really addressed in any of the movies other than the few lines in the prequels (which are all biased by what the jedi want the chosen one to be).
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Boo wrote: »
    1. Luke was strong in the force being the son of Anakin - genetics being a key component as to who is more powerful in the force was already established in the OT.

    I clearly don't know as much about Star Wars as you but I think this is false. Aren't Jedi not supposed to have relationships and therefor kids? If Jedi don't have kids how does genetics play a role in who is more powerful in the force?

    Also, weren't there Clone Wars episodes where Jedi, and others, went around the galaxy looking for force sensitive babies to abduct from their (non force sensitive) families?

    I may be wrong, but I think as more Star Wars content has been made it's become clear that Luke and Leia being strong in the force is either coincidence/luck or by virtue of their father being "the chosen one" and is not something that can be generally applied to all Jedi.



  • Boo wrote: »
    Idc about Rey knowing the force so quickly, I don’t need a rehash of years of training for 3 movies.

    I didn’t particularly like ROS for other reasons. It may be as I grow older I want a little something more in the writing department. But again it’s SW it has never and probably will never have that.

    It felt more like a corporate response to internet outrage of tlj.

    Again, I’m happy the Skywalker saga is over. I hope with Disney we get a lot more SW things. It’s a chance to really dive into a big world with a lot of cool and terrible characters.

    I hope Disney has learned its lesson from the ST. A huge blip in their radar for sure.

    The annoying thing is Disney can do great star wars. Rebels was good, Solo was good, but Rogue One and (so far) the Mandalorian are pretty epic.

    They need to have established an overall storyline if they do another trilogy or set of connecting movies. The ST was just a mess, in a timeline not needing to be added to, with themes already concluded in the movies before. The ST is just pointless, that craps on established characters, lore and stories (essentially all other star wars films prior to TFA) its like this sequel trilogy lives in its own little bubble - that is good, as I can pretend it doesn't exist.

    But Disney has the money and power to put forward excellent creative teams and push the star wars brand forward in a respectful, well written manner that keeps all fans hungry for more.

    Not slow down, take a hiatus because of some made up thing called "star wars fatigue". Just make good content - that's all we want.

    Some nostalgia is nice from time to time as a little nod, but don't drown the audience with it, because that all you got left after making bad decision after bad decision.

    Just make good star wars going forward, take the lesson of the ST and move on - we are eagerly waiting.

    Well most of this we can agree on, hopefully Disney can continue with more content like R1, mando, rebels, and Solo (but without a mid-filming director swap).
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • I simply fail to see how Anakin is no longer the chosen one. (Let's go with how a chosen one exists. Humor me)

    Now by the end of Ep6, Anakin returns to the light, slam dunks Palpatine down a deep dark hole. Fulfills his destiny and the prophecy is complete blah blah.

    Balance achieved.

    Years later, sequel trilogy starts. Nope, stop the other complaints right there, we're only talking about the chosen one here. The Force is again unbalanced. Palpatine returns from the dead. Rey beats Palps. But not before Anakin's force ghost says "Bring balance to the Force, as I did."

    As. I. Did.

    As in, the prophecy was fulfilled and he is the chosen one. There ya go, the sequels changing Anakin's chosen one status is a myth. You're welcome.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    @Boo

    Funny. Most of your points regarding TROS clearly show you're piecing your opinion together having decided to not watch it. Much of your complaints regarding it are clearly coming from an assumed plot based on "leaks" and trailers.

    It is very far from perfect, and very far from being the best Star Wars movie, but your complaints about Rey are misguided when it comes to this installment.

    Then please explain.

    Because my points as to what happens in this movie are correct, and for me this just tears apart all other prior star wars.

    So if Rey doesn't have all the power of prior Jedi, become the Chosen One over Anakin and destroy the sith and save the day - please tell me where I am wrong, I am all ears...

    1. If you interpret a character who heard some force ghost voices and then exclaimed " I am all the jedi" as meaning she has the power of everyone, then sure. Or you could just take it like every other time that someone in Star Wars has been aided by a force ghost and not overreact. I can only image when Luke blows up the Death Star "OMGZ! Luke is LITERALLY the powers of himself and Kenobi because Kenobi's ghost talked to him!"

    2. The chosen one was a dumb storyline made up for the prequels, and I don't recall anything in this movie that references any sort of chosen one. Thankfully that died with ROTS.

    3. yes, the hero of the story defeats the bad guy. congrats, you can have that one.

    1. Luke was strong in the force being the son of Anakin - genetics being a key component as to who is more powerful in the force was already established in the OT. In ANH, Luke destroys the death star by piloting a ship he is familiar with (same controls and make as his T-16), driving down a trench hew was familiar in doing (piloting his said T-16 down Beggar's Canyon) and making a bullseye shot on the exhaust port, being about 2 meters in size (same size as Womp Rats that he would bullseye on Tatooin in his T-16). He gets a voice of encouragement from Obi Wan to trust his feelings - a power which he trained with Obi Wan in the Falcon with his lightsaber against remotes - and what was the power of force ghosts are you talking about? Is it when Obi Wan says that he cannot get involved in Luke choosing to face Vader?

    2. The Chosen One was a running theme brought into the lore of the franchise by its creator, George Lucas. Like it or not, Lucas created star wars and the prophecy of the chosen one to tell his "Skywalker story" about love, evil and redemption. He also confirmed that Anakin was the chosen one and that prophecy was fulfilled in ROTJ. Bringing back Palpatine/Sith proves that the prophecy was not fulfilled, and that by having Anakin's ghost, being one of many acting through Rey, she has the Power to destroy the Sith - she therefore brought balance to the Force - Rey, NOT ANAKIN. Again, this is lore breaking.

    3. Yes the hero destroys the bad guy, lol. Palpatine was never meant to be in this trilogy. His very existence in this movie is lore breaking. With Johnson killing off Snoke, JJ brought in Palps because the story needed a villain bigger than Kylo Ren and some nostalgia may win back some gullible fans. Palpatine's story ended in ROTJ, by Anakin completing his prophecy. Again, Rey defeating Palpatine is lore breaking. Furthermore this story just degrades all star wars 1-6, for the sake of what? Rey? Why?

    1. See, right there. I say 'Rey heard ghosts and it gave here strength (just like Luke)" and you see "Rey was literally all jedi". I say "Luke heard a ghost and it gave him strength/confidence" and you see "Luke did everything completely on his own".

    2. Why does palp coming back need to undo the prophecy? Did anyone in canon ever actually say the prophecy? Its never really addressed in any of the movies other than the few lines in the prequels (which are all biased by what the jedi want the chosen one to be).

    Are you kidding me?

    1. Rey is powerful because the jedi ghosts intervene (when they cant) to give her all their power to do something she couldn't do on her own. Obi Wan gives Luke a little encouragement to do something he has done many times before - BIG difference.

    2. The prophecy didn't need a mention in the OT, as it was established in the PT (depending what order you watch them in it doesn't matter). The point is Lucas created all of this including the prophecy. It was his story and he ended with ROTJ and confirmed that Anakin was the chosen one and fulfilled the prophecy.

    Filoni even mentions the Chosen One in Rebels, continuing on the theme - this is all cannon.

    The ST comes along and brings back Palpatine out of a lack of a villain because Johnson decided to throw Snoke away as nothing. Palpatine was brought back for no other reason than that and nostalgia to win over some easily pleased fans. In bringing back Palpatine, this destroyed everything that Lucas had created. The story Lucas has told, all because Disney has the right to do so - pathetic.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    1. Luke was strong in the force being the son of Anakin - genetics being a key component as to who is more powerful in the force was already established in the OT.

    I clearly don't know as much about Star Wars as you but I think this is false. Aren't Jedi not supposed to have relationships and therefor kids? If Jedi don't have kids how does genetics play a role in who is more powerful in the force?

    Also, weren't there Clone Wars episodes where Jedi, and others, went around the galaxy looking for force sensitive babies to abduct from their (non force sensitive) families?

    I may be wrong, but I think as more Star Wars content has been made it's become clear that Luke and Leia being strong in the force is either coincidence/luck or by virtue of their father being "the chosen one" and is not something that can be generally applied to all Jedi.



    You are right.

    It plays a role in genetics. The PT introduced Medichlorians that live inside the DNA cells of the force user. Force users can be created by the Will of the force, from parents that are not force-sensitive. As this was also explained in the PT - that children born within the realms of the republic are quickly identified - this is why by the time Anakin was discovered he was seen as "too old" to begin his training.

    Once a powerful force user is established - that DNA and midichlorians can be passed down (does not mean it will always work though, like genetics in reality certain traits can skip generations). Thus Luke and Leia are force sensitive because their father was a Jedi, but their father was also the Chosen One, a person with the highest Midichlorian count ever, and therefore the most powerful being in tune with the force. It was inevitable that Luke and Leia were destined to be strong force users as their birth right, being of the Skywalker bloodline - the bloodline of the chosen one, who was the force itself personified.

    Going forward Ben Solo/Kylo Ren would have been another descendant of the Skywalker bloodline, also destined to wield great power.

    This is why it is nonsensical that an untrained Rey could best Kylo 3 times in TFA alone:

    1. Resists Kylo's mind probe and then reverses it back on to him.
    2. Wins in the "tug of war" against Kylo for Luke's old saber.
    3. Defeats Kylo in lightsaber combat.

    If force ghosts really transferred their power into the surviving jedi - why did Luke not rise up against the Emperor's force lightening blasts and defeat him - by the logic seen in TROS, he had the power to do that.

    Indeed following the logic of TROS, with only 2 Sith - it should have been no problem for Dooku or Sidious to completely annihilate Yoda.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    khelzac wrote: »
    I simply fail to see how Anakin is no longer the chosen one. (Let's go with how a chosen one exists. Humor me)

    Now by the end of Ep6, Anakin returns to the light, slam dunks Palpatine down a deep dark hole. Fulfills his destiny and the prophecy is complete blah blah.

    Balance achieved.

    Years later, sequel trilogy starts. Nope, stop the other complaints right there, we're only talking about the chosen one here. The Force is again unbalanced. Palpatine returns from the dead. Rey beats Palps. But not before Anakin's force ghost says "Bring balance to the Force, as I did."

    As. I. Did.

    As in, the prophecy was fulfilled and he is the chosen one. There ya go, the sequels changing Anakin's chosen one status is a myth. You're welcome.

    its not a myth, because if Palpatine was killed and balance was achieved with Anakin

    Then we go to the ST and "gotcha", Palpatine was never really gone - then Anakin did sweet FA to balance the force. He was supposed to destroy the SIth - not defeat it for a few years.

    That's why when the ST was first established, they were careful not to make Snoke or Kylo followers of the Sith. They were of the darkside, but not sith. They never crossed that line. Until now.

    The ST should never have touched this era (only a few years post ROTJ to swiftly undo all that was done) or loved characters returning just to get pooped on. Plus how often does the galaxy fall out of balance. Do they need a retcon of the force in every generation? Is this not what Luke was secluding himself on that island for? to stop the cycle? ... - all pthemes of bad story writing from this ST.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    @Boo

    Funny. Most of your points regarding TROS clearly show you're piecing your opinion together having decided to not watch it. Much of your complaints regarding it are clearly coming from an assumed plot based on "leaks" and trailers.

    It is very far from perfect, and very far from being the best Star Wars movie, but your complaints about Rey are misguided when it comes to this installment.

    Then please explain.

    Because my points as to what happens in this movie are correct, and for me this just tears apart all other prior star wars.

    So if Rey doesn't have all the power of prior Jedi, become the Chosen One over Anakin and destroy the sith and save the day - please tell me where I am wrong, I am all ears...

    1. If you interpret a character who heard some force ghost voices and then exclaimed " I am all the jedi" as meaning she has the power of everyone, then sure. Or you could just take it like every other time that someone in Star Wars has been aided by a force ghost and not overreact. I can only image when Luke blows up the Death Star "OMGZ! Luke is LITERALLY the powers of himself and Kenobi because Kenobi's ghost talked to him!"

    2. The chosen one was a dumb storyline made up for the prequels, and I don't recall anything in this movie that references any sort of chosen one. Thankfully that died with ROTS.

    3. yes, the hero of the story defeats the bad guy. congrats, you can have that one.

    1. Luke was strong in the force being the son of Anakin - genetics being a key component as to who is more powerful in the force was already established in the OT. In ANH, Luke destroys the death star by piloting a ship he is familiar with (same controls and make as his T-16), driving down a trench hew was familiar in doing (piloting his said T-16 down Beggar's Canyon) and making a bullseye shot on the exhaust port, being about 2 meters in size (same size as Womp Rats that he would bullseye on Tatooin in his T-16). He gets a voice of encouragement from Obi Wan to trust his feelings - a power which he trained with Obi Wan in the Falcon with his lightsaber against remotes - and what was the power of force ghosts are you talking about? Is it when Obi Wan says that he cannot get involved in Luke choosing to face Vader?

    2. The Chosen One was a running theme brought into the lore of the franchise by its creator, George Lucas. Like it or not, Lucas created star wars and the prophecy of the chosen one to tell his "Skywalker story" about love, evil and redemption. He also confirmed that Anakin was the chosen one and that prophecy was fulfilled in ROTJ. Bringing back Palpatine/Sith proves that the prophecy was not fulfilled, and that by having Anakin's ghost, being one of many acting through Rey, she has the Power to destroy the Sith - she therefore brought balance to the Force - Rey, NOT ANAKIN. Again, this is lore breaking.

    3. Yes the hero destroys the bad guy, lol. Palpatine was never meant to be in this trilogy. His very existence in this movie is lore breaking. With Johnson killing off Snoke, JJ brought in Palps because the story needed a villain bigger than Kylo Ren and some nostalgia may win back some gullible fans. Palpatine's story ended in ROTJ, by Anakin completing his prophecy. Again, Rey defeating Palpatine is lore breaking. Furthermore this story just degrades all star wars 1-6, for the sake of what? Rey? Why?

    1. See, right there. I say 'Rey heard ghosts and it gave here strength (just like Luke)" and you see "Rey was literally all jedi". I say "Luke heard a ghost and it gave him strength/confidence" and you see "Luke did everything completely on his own".

    2. Why does palp coming back need to undo the prophecy? Did anyone in canon ever actually say the prophecy? Its never really addressed in any of the movies other than the few lines in the prequels (which are all biased by what the jedi want the chosen one to be).

    Are you kidding me?

    1. Rey is powerful because the jedi ghosts intervene (when they cant) to give her all their power to do something she couldn't do on her own. Obi Wan gives Luke a little encouragement to do something he has done many times before - BIG difference.

    2. The prophecy didn't need a mention in the OT, as it was established in the PT (depending what order you watch them in it doesn't matter). The point is Lucas created all of this including the prophecy. It was his story and he ended with ROTJ and confirmed that Anakin was the chosen one and fulfilled the prophecy.

    Filoni even mentions the Chosen One in Rebels, continuing on the theme - this is all cannon.

    The ST comes along and brings back Palpatine out of a lack of a villain because Johnson decided to throw Snoke away as nothing. Palpatine was brought back for no other reason than that and nostalgia to win over some easily pleased fans. In bringing back Palpatine, this destroyed everything that Lucas had created. The story Lucas has told, all because Disney has the right to do so - pathetic.

    1. yet this is still entirely your interpretation of her not being able to do something, yet believing Luke could easily do the thing. After the "all the jedi" bit she stands up and blocks force lightning, not exactly a revolutionary new trick.

    2. How does the order of the movies not matter???? The OT doesn't mention the prophecy because Lucas hadn't invented it yet. And yeah, of course all of the canon material after the PT references it, as it is now a thing.

    I agree, bringing back palp is lazy, but not out of character for star wars. A force ghost vader was supposedly planned as a part of Lucas' vision of the sequels before he sold out to Disney.
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  • Chaos is natural. You can't have anything balanced forever. Unless you're looking for a fairy tale where everyone (except maybe the bad guy) lives happily ever after.

    Anakin brought balance to the Force. No matter how you spin it, that remains a fact. The Chosen One was supposed to bring balance. Not maintain it for eternity. That Palpatine returned doesn't change anything. Let's assume he didn't and instead Kylo found a Sith holocron and followed its teachings. There you go, more Sith. Point is, unless you do a Traya and kill the Force itself, the Jedi and the Sith will always exist. Yin and yang. Light and dark. Life and death. Up and down. Left and right. Sequels and prequels. Stuff like that.
  • Boo wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    1. Luke was strong in the force being the son of Anakin - genetics being a key component as to who is more powerful in the force was already established in the OT.

    I clearly don't know as much about Star Wars as you but I think this is false. Aren't Jedi not supposed to have relationships and therefor kids? If Jedi don't have kids how does genetics play a role in who is more powerful in the force?

    Also, weren't there Clone Wars episodes where Jedi, and others, went around the galaxy looking for force sensitive babies to abduct from their (non force sensitive) families?

    I may be wrong, but I think as more Star Wars content has been made it's become clear that Luke and Leia being strong in the force is either coincidence/luck or by virtue of their father being "the chosen one" and is not something that can be generally applied to all Jedi.



    You are right.

    It plays a role in genetics. The PT introduced Medichlorians that live inside the DNA cells of the force user. Force users can be created by the Will of the force, from parents that are not force-sensitive. As this was also explained in the PT - that children born within the realms of the republic are quickly identified - this is why by the time Anakin was discovered he was seen as "too old" to begin his training.

    Once a powerful force user is established - that DNA and midichlorians can be passed down (does not mean it will always work though, like genetics in reality certain traits can skip generations). Thus Luke and Leia are force sensitive because their father was a Jedi, but their father was also the Chosen One, a person with the highest Midichlorian count ever, and therefore the most powerful being in tune with the force. It was inevitable that Luke and Leia were destined to be strong force users as their birth right, being of the Skywalker bloodline - the bloodline of the chosen one, who was the force itself personified.

    Going forward Ben Solo/Kylo Ren would have been another descendant of the Skywalker bloodline, also destined to wield great power.

    This is why it is nonsensical that an untrained Rey could best Kylo 3 times in TFA alone:


    1. Resists Kylo's mind probe and then reverses it back on to him.
    2. Wins in the "tug of war" against Kylo for Luke's old saber.
    3. Defeats Kylo in lightsaber combat.

    If force ghosts really transferred their power into the surviving jedi - why did Luke not rise up against the Emperor's force lightening blasts and defeat him - by the logic seen in TROS, he had the power to do that.

    Indeed following the logic of TROS, with only 2 Sith - it should have been no problem for Dooku or Sidious to completely annihilate Yoda.

    See, this is why you really need to see the movie, as her power is explained by the exact reasoning you gave in the first two paragraphs.

    Because force ghosts don't do that, people who hate on the sequels put that idea out there.
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  • I am cancelling Disney+ today! Not one more dime out of me!!
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    @Boo

    Funny. Most of your points regarding TROS clearly show you're piecing your opinion together having decided to not watch it. Much of your complaints regarding it are clearly coming from an assumed plot based on "leaks" and trailers.

    It is very far from perfect, and very far from being the best Star Wars movie, but your complaints about Rey are misguided when it comes to this installment.

    Then please explain.

    Because my points as to what happens in this movie are correct, and for me this just tears apart all other prior star wars.

    So if Rey doesn't have all the power of prior Jedi, become the Chosen One over Anakin and destroy the sith and save the day - please tell me where I am wrong, I am all ears...

    1. If you interpret a character who heard some force ghost voices and then exclaimed " I am all the jedi" as meaning she has the power of everyone, then sure. Or you could just take it like every other time that someone in Star Wars has been aided by a force ghost and not overreact. I can only image when Luke blows up the Death Star "OMGZ! Luke is LITERALLY the powers of himself and Kenobi because Kenobi's ghost talked to him!"

    2. The chosen one was a dumb storyline made up for the prequels, and I don't recall anything in this movie that references any sort of chosen one. Thankfully that died with ROTS.

    3. yes, the hero of the story defeats the bad guy. congrats, you can have that one.

    1. Luke was strong in the force being the son of Anakin - genetics being a key component as to who is more powerful in the force was already established in the OT. In ANH, Luke destroys the death star by piloting a ship he is familiar with (same controls and make as his T-16), driving down a trench hew was familiar in doing (piloting his said T-16 down Beggar's Canyon) and making a bullseye shot on the exhaust port, being about 2 meters in size (same size as Womp Rats that he would bullseye on Tatooin in his T-16). He gets a voice of encouragement from Obi Wan to trust his feelings - a power which he trained with Obi Wan in the Falcon with his lightsaber against remotes - and what was the power of force ghosts are you talking about? Is it when Obi Wan says that he cannot get involved in Luke choosing to face Vader?

    2. The Chosen One was a running theme brought into the lore of the franchise by its creator, George Lucas. Like it or not, Lucas created star wars and the prophecy of the chosen one to tell his "Skywalker story" about love, evil and redemption. He also confirmed that Anakin was the chosen one and that prophecy was fulfilled in ROTJ. Bringing back Palpatine/Sith proves that the prophecy was not fulfilled, and that by having Anakin's ghost, being one of many acting through Rey, she has the Power to destroy the Sith - she therefore brought balance to the Force - Rey, NOT ANAKIN. Again, this is lore breaking.

    3. Yes the hero destroys the bad guy, lol. Palpatine was never meant to be in this trilogy. His very existence in this movie is lore breaking. With Johnson killing off Snoke, JJ brought in Palps because the story needed a villain bigger than Kylo Ren and some nostalgia may win back some gullible fans. Palpatine's story ended in ROTJ, by Anakin completing his prophecy. Again, Rey defeating Palpatine is lore breaking. Furthermore this story just degrades all star wars 1-6, for the sake of what? Rey? Why?

    1. See, right there. I say 'Rey heard ghosts and it gave here strength (just like Luke)" and you see "Rey was literally all jedi". I say "Luke heard a ghost and it gave him strength/confidence" and you see "Luke did everything completely on his own".

    2. Why does palp coming back need to undo the prophecy? Did anyone in canon ever actually say the prophecy? Its never really addressed in any of the movies other than the few lines in the prequels (which are all biased by what the jedi want the chosen one to be).

    Are you kidding me?

    1. Rey is powerful because the jedi ghosts intervene (when they cant) to give her all their power to do something she couldn't do on her own. Obi Wan gives Luke a little encouragement to do something he has done many times before - BIG difference.

    2. The prophecy didn't need a mention in the OT, as it was established in the PT (depending what order you watch them in it doesn't matter). The point is Lucas created all of this including the prophecy. It was his story and he ended with ROTJ and confirmed that Anakin was the chosen one and fulfilled the prophecy.

    Filoni even mentions the Chosen One in Rebels, continuing on the theme - this is all cannon.

    The ST comes along and brings back Palpatine out of a lack of a villain because Johnson decided to throw Snoke away as nothing. Palpatine was brought back for no other reason than that and nostalgia to win over some easily pleased fans. In bringing back Palpatine, this destroyed everything that Lucas had created. The story Lucas has told, all because Disney has the right to do so - pathetic.

    1. yet this is still entirely your interpretation of her not being able to do something, yet believing Luke could easily do the thing. After the "all the jedi" bit she stands up and blocks force lightning, not exactly a revolutionary new trick.

    2. How does the order of the movies not matter???? The OT doesn't mention the prophecy because Lucas hadn't invented it yet. And yeah, of course all of the canon material after the PT references it, as it is now a thing.

    I agree, bringing back palp is lazy, but not out of character for star wars. A force ghost vader was supposedly planned as a part of Lucas' vision of the sequels before he sold out to Disney.

    No, I explained something that Luke did, because he had always done them - that's the point here. Rey was instantly good at everything - why? Because she is a Palpatine? or because she holds all the power of the Jedi - again, Luke was the sole surviving Jedi in ROTJ and by logic of TROS also should have had all the power of the jedi and plus he was the son of Anakin (being the chones one Anakin had a higher midichlorian count than anyone, Yoda and Palpatine, so Luke has better lineage from a genetic standpoint) - yet he didn't rise up super powered and destroy the Emperor.

    Ya - Rey deflect Palpatine's power back at him, and so did Mace, but Sidious never exploded when Mace did it. Additionally, he was the sole surviving sith lord at that moment as well (as Anakin had not yet been anointed as Darth Vader) so all the power of the sith was in him then as well - cant you see the whole thing makes no sense?

    If you watch the movies in order - Chosen One Prophecy is established in PT and its them carries forward into the OT and beyond. When only the OT was in existence, yes George hadn't created the prophecy yet, but the story there was about love and good over evil as well as redemption. He introduced the prophecy to give Anakin's story more depth - Rey's character has no depth.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    khelzac wrote: »
    Chaos is natural. You can't have anything balanced forever. Unless you're looking for a fairy tale where everyone (except maybe the bad guy) lives happily ever after.

    Anakin brought balance to the Force. No matter how you spin it, that remains a fact. The Chosen One was supposed to bring balance. Not maintain it for eternity. That Palpatine returned doesn't change anything. Let's assume he didn't and instead Kylo found a Sith holocron and followed its teachings. There you go, more Sith. Point is, unless you do a Traya and kill the Force itself, the Jedi and the Sith will always exist. Yin and yang. Light and dark. Life and death. Up and down. Left and right. Sequels and prequels. Stuff like that.

    But that's what star wars is - a space adventure fairy tale, with wizards and princesses etc.

    Anakin did not bring balance if Sidious was never truly defeated.

    The sith can be defeated. For all we know the one on Malachor was the only holocron of the sith left in existence and that was destroyed in Rebels - boom,no more sith.

    Of course the dark can rise again, doesn't mean they need to be called "sith" and that was part of the prophecy, defeating the sith would not mean defeating the darkside. Again, that is why Snoke and Kylo were first introduced, clearly not being labelled as sith.

    What this trilogy needed was a new era to let the dark side hold sway, not one generation after the force was brought into balance - otherwise, what is special about Anakin doing so? What is special about the prophecy at all?...Nothing.

    Oh Rey brought balance this time, ok, well next week there is another bad guy - its all so pathetic.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    Boo wrote: »
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    1. Luke was strong in the force being the son of Anakin - genetics being a key component as to who is more powerful in the force was already established in the OT.

    I clearly don't know as much about Star Wars as you but I think this is false. Aren't Jedi not supposed to have relationships and therefor kids? If Jedi don't have kids how does genetics play a role in who is more powerful in the force?

    Also, weren't there Clone Wars episodes where Jedi, and others, went around the galaxy looking for force sensitive babies to abduct from their (non force sensitive) families?

    I may be wrong, but I think as more Star Wars content has been made it's become clear that Luke and Leia being strong in the force is either coincidence/luck or by virtue of their father being "the chosen one" and is not something that can be generally applied to all Jedi.



    You are right.

    It plays a role in genetics. The PT introduced Medichlorians that live inside the DNA cells of the force user. Force users can be created by the Will of the force, from parents that are not force-sensitive. As this was also explained in the PT - that children born within the realms of the republic are quickly identified - this is why by the time Anakin was discovered he was seen as "too old" to begin his training.

    Once a powerful force user is established - that DNA and midichlorians can be passed down (does not mean it will always work though, like genetics in reality certain traits can skip generations). Thus Luke and Leia are force sensitive because their father was a Jedi, but their father was also the Chosen One, a person with the highest Midichlorian count ever, and therefore the most powerful being in tune with the force. It was inevitable that Luke and Leia were destined to be strong force users as their birth right, being of the Skywalker bloodline - the bloodline of the chosen one, who was the force itself personified.

    Going forward Ben Solo/Kylo Ren would have been another descendant of the Skywalker bloodline, also destined to wield great power.

    This is why it is nonsensical that an untrained Rey could best Kylo 3 times in TFA alone:


    1. Resists Kylo's mind probe and then reverses it back on to him.
    2. Wins in the "tug of war" against Kylo for Luke's old saber.
    3. Defeats Kylo in lightsaber combat.

    If force ghosts really transferred their power into the surviving jedi - why did Luke not rise up against the Emperor's force lightening blasts and defeat him - by the logic seen in TROS, he had the power to do that.

    Indeed following the logic of TROS, with only 2 Sith - it should have been no problem for Dooku or Sidious to completely annihilate Yoda.

    See, this is why you really need to see the movie, as her power is explained by the exact reasoning you gave in the first two paragraphs.

    Because force ghosts don't do that, people who hate on the sequels put that idea out there.

    You mean Rey being a Palpatine? No, that doesn't explain it at all.

    Luke still needed training - he didn't just do things. Same with Anakin, who was and always will be the most powerful in the force. 10 years passed between E1 and E2, and Anakin is still a Padawan with still very much to learn.

    Rey just does things because the story is written that way - no real explanation at all.
  • TVF
    25911 posts Member
    7thru9suck wrote: »
    I am cancelling Disney+ today! Not one more dime out of me!!

    *clap clap clap clap clap*

    O-ver-reac-tion!
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  • RoS appeals to emotion, not logic, and on that level it works pretty well. I enjoyed it. TLJ was more interesting, but RoS is more fun.
  • It's useless
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    7thru9suck wrote: »
    It's useless

    I may cancel Disney+

    I have enjoyed the Mandalorian, but soon it will end, then they will have clone wars returning, which it too will end, then back for more Mandalorian or the Obi Wan show (could give a care about Cassian Andor's show, lol).

    For me, Marvel ended with Endgame, and I have all other DIsney stuff on there anyways. Basically all that is holding me to Disney+ is star wars.

    I wanted to subscribe to honor good star wars, like Mando, but the way how Disney has handled its sequel trilogy is just disturbing.

    I can get the content I need form other sources, if need be.
  • Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.

    She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
  • TVF
    25911 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.

    She is a true Mary Sue by definition.

    Ugh
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  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.

    She is a true Mary Sue by definition.

    Also just because she is a Palpatine, doesn't necessarily make her super strong in the force - from what we know of force genetics, she would likely be more powerful than the average force user, coming from a powerful force wielding bloodline.

    But Kylo/Ben is from the Skywalker bloodline, lineage of the Chosen One - the most force power potent bloodline possible - which trumps Rey's lineage.

    The only thing JJ could come up with to counter the set Star Wars lore in this regard was the whole surviving Jedi/Sith inherent the power of fallen Jedi/Sith respectively - which doesn't make any sense and is just a can of worms.

    Following that inheritance logic of passing power, there were always only 2 Sith - that would have made Darth Maul super OP, yet was defeated by Padawan Obi Wan. And since Maul later is not Sith - what happens to all his "power"?

    Additionally, who got Vader's power when he died? Palpatine? But Vader was redeemed back to Anakin, so Rey got Anakin's power?

    It's all just a muddled illogical mess.
  • LordDirt wrote: »
    Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.

    She is a true Mary Sue by definition.

    So she had major flaws and exploitable needs, yet was a Mary Sue, by definition? Ohhhh K.
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