Best Star Wars Trilogy

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Replies

  • TVF
    31981 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    People are too imbedded in their personal versions of Star Wars. What it needs to be. And when it changes (you know, as time goes on) older folk typically see it as a step down (I see it as protecting the dignity of their own generation, but that’s a generalization I’m not willing to defend).

    And yet you opened with another big generalization. I'm 46. I grew up with the OT. I love the OT. And I like all the Disney content, including the ST, Solo, R1, and Mando.

    The PT is utter garbage.

    Fit that into your stereotype.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of the change to the shipment tab. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Prequel Trilogy
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    The original trilogy has its plot holes and Issues, but it’s a good story with good characters.

    The prequel trilogy was a good story poorly executed. There are some great characters, but they were forced to deliver some of the worst dialogue ever uttered on screen. If Lucas had let someone else help with that part then they could have been fantastic.

    The sequel trilogy is a terrible story with forgettable characters. Every movie was worse than the last for me. I detest them with every fiber of my being, and they’ actually managed to ruin Star Wars for me. After Attack of the Clones (which was the prequel I hated the most) I could still watch the old movies and enjoy them. That was before the sequels disrespected and destroyed them. Now when I watch Luke stake his life on his principles and Vader sacrifice himself for his son all I think is that Vader accomplished nothing because the Emperor is fine, and Luke will one day throw everything he believes out the window.

    Not that my only hatred for the sequels is that it destroys everything good about Star Wars. I could write a book about why there are a trash fire in their own right. But I can’t escape that by just not watching them. I can’t enjoy something that I used to love anymore either.
    "Prequels is bad but you have to forgive everything about the movie so its not bad at all! But that gosh darn sequels!!!"

    Sequels cannot disrespect the older movies since it takes place in the future, with things happening in between that led to the characters being slightly different than you remembered them to be, as passage of time, usually does

    Prequels can disrespect original trilogy by changing some details of how things played out, or introduce contradicting elements to the story, which it does

    I don't see how prequels get a pass with poor execution, worst dialogue, and sequel trilogy doesn't get the same treatment.

    I never said you have to forgive the prequels. I’ve not once watched Attack of the Clones since I saw it in the theater. It’s horrible. The others I can stand to watch. And I love the characters in other media when a better writer is doing dialogue. They could have tweaked lines of dialogue in them and made great movies. They aren’t. They’re just OK. But I like the story they were trying to tell.

    There is nothing about the sequels I would salvage. The story was cobbled together as they went with no plan. They need to be rewritten from scratch. I hate them from top to bottom. I can pick out little moments that were enjoyable, but not enough to salvage them.

    It’s the difference between a car than runs but needs to be repainted verses a car that’s been completely totaled.

    And yes you can disrespect someone from the future. I could say hateful things about deceased relatives and that would be disrespectful even though they are long gone. So that makes no sense.

    TLJ did that by having someone who saved his father because he could see good where nobody else could... consider murdering his young nephew in his sleep. Instead of having the characters change a little, they could take everything that they stood for and held sacred and throw it out the window when writing them.

    The prequels don’t do anything that destroys established characters to that degree.

    Ok boomer.

    Most people that I know that saw the prequels in theaters have never touched them again. My parents fell asleep during Episode 1 and that’s the only time they ever tried 1 2 or 3.

    The sequels have created an uprising. Boycotts, anger, and so on. They will probably be looked down upon as inferior to the great and holy OT. In the eyes of the generations before.

    People are too imbedded in their personal versions of Star Wars. What it needs to be. And when it changes (you know, as time goes on) older folk typically see it as a step down (I see it as protecting the dignity of their own generation, but that’s a generalization I’m not willing to defend). People lose their minds because they are convinced that their version has to be right. So they trash the newer movies on the internet. And younger generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And older generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And Disney looks up and says, oh no, time to go back to the old formulas. And then nothing ever changes. That’s why the sequel trilogy feels like a carbon copy that is trying to be its own thing. That’s why the saga “ended”. That’s why older characters were resolved and newer ones forgotten. That’s why they hide their modern themes and gay people and progressive acts behind large signs that say “This is nostalgia and we are trying so desperately to play to your ideas, so that we can make you love this. Because kids do. They see Rey and go I want to be like her. But older fans see Rey and say she could never be as good as Luke, so that when they try to do something new, when they try to show you that the greatest legends can make the greatest mistakes and you can too, older, more protective fans turn their backs and hope they never have to endure that kind of disrespect ever again because yeah, it hurts man, and I know it does, but the sequels can’t change a character, only develop them. It’s not disrespect, it’s a lesson, and if you can’t take it, then you’ll never really know Luke Skywalker. The sequels can’t ruin a character; if you believe that, then you don’t believe in Luke Skywalker. Rian Johnson’s biggest mistake was stepping too far off the ledge and then falling to his doom because he tried to change people’s minds. J.J. played it safe both times. The sequels biggest mistake was listening to the Internet and not taking it one step further. Because the general audience is more important than the fans. They’re giving me the cut signal, so I’ll step off my soapbox now. I’d like to thank-

    I’m not a boomer. I wasn’t born yet when the old trilogy started. I was a teenager when the prequels came out. The prequel era was the time I got into Star Wars. And yet, I’m not a fan. They were just OK, but they led me to the OT which I liked better. When the sequels started I desperately wanted to like them. I desperately wanted to like Rey. I tried to like them but they have been a big disappointment.

    I know this might be hard to understand, but the primary reason is because they are poorly written movies with poorly written characters. In my opinion. You can like them, and I’ll be happy for you. I can think they’re trash if I want. Feel free to continue to say, “OK boomer” even though I’m a millennial. The misapplied ad hominem attack really proves that there couldn’t possibly be any valid reasons behind my opinion. It’s got to be my age, so just keep using the trendy new term for being dismissive of the elderly.

    I liked Solo. I liked R1. I liked the Clone Wars cartoon. I liked Rebels. I’m usually pretty open minded and forgiving especially of anything with Star Wars on it. I just hate the ST. I could PM you my very long list as to why if you actually care.

    And yes. You CAN be disrespectful to a character in a sequel. Nothing you’ve said proves otherwise. If Luke spent the last movie stealing candy from children, and kicking puppies down the stairs that would be about equal to the “development” we got from his character. Instead he accidentally wanted to murder a helpless, sleeping boy.

    They tried to explain it to the audience, why Luke failed, but no one listened. He had a moment of failure, and the audience took that to mean that this wasn’t the Luke they knew. Rian tried to show you that no matter how much Luke committed himself to the light and his morals, he can still make a mistake. He did not intend to kill his nephew. He only faltered for a second, and it made him feel terrible.

    I forgot that on the internet it’s difficult to make throwaway jokes like “ok boomer” because people will try and expose your entire argument by attacking that one little point. Of course you’re not a boomer, I didn’t expect you to be. It’s a phrase that represents the joke of this new generalization.

    I understand that most people like other new Star Wars things. But to be honest, nothing Star Wars is really new anymore. It’s all just rewritten content. The morals and themes never change.

    I can’t answer to all the failures of the sequels. I do care that you agree that we can share our own separate opinions about the sequels. However, often times the situation results in me defending something Star Wars because people have the nerve to try and force their opinions on everyone else. I like most of Star Wars. You can dislike which parts of it that you want, but please, don’t try and ruin it for others. I don’t believe that the sequels should be scrapped and remade. I just believe that if you don’t like the sequels, make something else that is better.
  • Prequel Trilogy
    TVF wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    People are too imbedded in their personal versions of Star Wars. What it needs to be. And when it changes (you know, as time goes on) older folk typically see it as a step down (I see it as protecting the dignity of their own generation, but that’s a generalization I’m not willing to defend).

    And yet you opened with another big generalization. I'm 46. I grew up with the OT. I love the OT. And I like all the Disney content, including the ST, Solo, R1, and Mando.

    The PT is utter garbage.

    Fit that into your stereotype.

    I was never willing to defend the generalization I made that wasn’t a joke. You can dislike whatever you want, be whatever age, I don’t care. Ok boomer is meant to signify oblivion. It uses the age as a generalization, when in reality, the phrase can be applied to anyone. I don’t agree with the generalization; I agree with the phrase as a joke.
  • Prequel Trilogy
    Nihion wrote: »
    That’s why they hide their modern themes and gay people and progressive acts behind large signs that say “This is nostalgia and we are trying so desperately to play to your ideas, so that we can make you love this. Because kids do. They see Rey and go I want to be like her. But older fans see Rey and say she could never be as good as Luke, so that when they try to do something new, when they try to show you that the greatest legends can make the greatest mistakes and you can too, older, more protective fans turn their backs and hope they never have to endure that kind of disrespect ever again because yeah, it hurts man, and I know it does... [/quote



    aczy3et5k1rw.jpg

    If I could use the Force there would be no doubt that I would assume the role of Sith. It’s in my nature.
  • Original Trilogy
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    The original trilogy has its plot holes and Issues, but it’s a good story with good characters.

    The prequel trilogy was a good story poorly executed. There are some great characters, but they were forced to deliver some of the worst dialogue ever uttered on screen. If Lucas had let someone else help with that part then they could have been fantastic.

    The sequel trilogy is a terrible story with forgettable characters. Every movie was worse than the last for me. I detest them with every fiber of my being, and they’ actually managed to ruin Star Wars for me. After Attack of the Clones (which was the prequel I hated the most) I could still watch the old movies and enjoy them. That was before the sequels disrespected and destroyed them. Now when I watch Luke stake his life on his principles and Vader sacrifice himself for his son all I think is that Vader accomplished nothing because the Emperor is fine, and Luke will one day throw everything he believes out the window.

    Not that my only hatred for the sequels is that it destroys everything good about Star Wars. I could write a book about why there are a trash fire in their own right. But I can’t escape that by just not watching them. I can’t enjoy something that I used to love anymore either.
    "Prequels is bad but you have to forgive everything about the movie so its not bad at all! But that gosh darn sequels!!!"

    Sequels cannot disrespect the older movies since it takes place in the future, with things happening in between that led to the characters being slightly different than you remembered them to be, as passage of time, usually does

    Prequels can disrespect original trilogy by changing some details of how things played out, or introduce contradicting elements to the story, which it does

    I don't see how prequels get a pass with poor execution, worst dialogue, and sequel trilogy doesn't get the same treatment.

    I never said you have to forgive the prequels. I’ve not once watched Attack of the Clones since I saw it in the theater. It’s horrible. The others I can stand to watch. And I love the characters in other media when a better writer is doing dialogue. They could have tweaked lines of dialogue in them and made great movies. They aren’t. They’re just OK. But I like the story they were trying to tell.

    There is nothing about the sequels I would salvage. The story was cobbled together as they went with no plan. They need to be rewritten from scratch. I hate them from top to bottom. I can pick out little moments that were enjoyable, but not enough to salvage them.

    It’s the difference between a car than runs but needs to be repainted verses a car that’s been completely totaled.

    And yes you can disrespect someone from the future. I could say hateful things about deceased relatives and that would be disrespectful even though they are long gone. So that makes no sense.

    TLJ did that by having someone who saved his father because he could see good where nobody else could... consider murdering his young nephew in his sleep. Instead of having the characters change a little, they could take everything that they stood for and held sacred and throw it out the window when writing them.

    The prequels don’t do anything that destroys established characters to that degree.

    Ok boomer.

    Most people that I know that saw the prequels in theaters have never touched them again. My parents fell asleep during Episode 1 and that’s the only time they ever tried 1 2 or 3.

    The sequels have created an uprising. Boycotts, anger, and so on. They will probably be looked down upon as inferior to the great and holy OT. In the eyes of the generations before.

    People are too imbedded in their personal versions of Star Wars. What it needs to be. And when it changes (you know, as time goes on) older folk typically see it as a step down (I see it as protecting the dignity of their own generation, but that’s a generalization I’m not willing to defend). People lose their minds because they are convinced that their version has to be right. So they trash the newer movies on the internet. And younger generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And older generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And Disney looks up and says, oh no, time to go back to the old formulas. And then nothing ever changes. That’s why the sequel trilogy feels like a carbon copy that is trying to be its own thing. That’s why the saga “ended”. That’s why older characters were resolved and newer ones forgotten. That’s why they hide their modern themes and gay people and progressive acts behind large signs that say “This is nostalgia and we are trying so desperately to play to your ideas, so that we can make you love this. Because kids do. They see Rey and go I want to be like her. But older fans see Rey and say she could never be as good as Luke, so that when they try to do something new, when they try to show you that the greatest legends can make the greatest mistakes and you can too, older, more protective fans turn their backs and hope they never have to endure that kind of disrespect ever again because yeah, it hurts man, and I know it does, but the sequels can’t change a character, only develop them. It’s not disrespect, it’s a lesson, and if you can’t take it, then you’ll never really know Luke Skywalker. The sequels can’t ruin a character; if you believe that, then you don’t believe in Luke Skywalker. Rian Johnson’s biggest mistake was stepping too far off the ledge and then falling to his doom because he tried to change people’s minds. J.J. played it safe both times. The sequels biggest mistake was listening to the Internet and not taking it one step further. Because the general audience is more important than the fans. They’re giving me the cut signal, so I’ll step off my soapbox now. I’d like to thank-

    I’m not a boomer. I wasn’t born yet when the old trilogy started. I was a teenager when the prequels came out. The prequel era was the time I got into Star Wars. And yet, I’m not a fan. They were just OK, but they led me to the OT which I liked better. When the sequels started I desperately wanted to like them. I desperately wanted to like Rey. I tried to like them but they have been a big disappointment.

    I know this might be hard to understand, but the primary reason is because they are poorly written movies with poorly written characters. In my opinion. You can like them, and I’ll be happy for you. I can think they’re trash if I want. Feel free to continue to say, “OK boomer” even though I’m a millennial. The misapplied ad hominem attack really proves that there couldn’t possibly be any valid reasons behind my opinion. It’s got to be my age, so just keep using the trendy new term for being dismissive of the elderly.

    I liked Solo. I liked R1. I liked the Clone Wars cartoon. I liked Rebels. I’m usually pretty open minded and forgiving especially of anything with Star Wars on it. I just hate the ST. I could PM you my very long list as to why if you actually care.

    And yes. You CAN be disrespectful to a character in a sequel. Nothing you’ve said proves otherwise. If Luke spent the last movie stealing candy from children, and kicking puppies down the stairs that would be about equal to the “development” we got from his character. Instead he accidentally wanted to murder a helpless, sleeping boy.

    They tried to explain it to the audience, why Luke failed, but no one listened. He had a moment of failure, and the audience took that to mean that this wasn’t the Luke they knew. Rian tried to show you that no matter how much Luke committed himself to the light and his morals, he can still make a mistake. He did not intend to kill his nephew. He only faltered for a second, and it made him feel terrible.

    I forgot that on the internet it’s difficult to make throwaway jokes like “ok boomer” because people will try and expose your entire argument by attacking that one little point. Of course you’re not a boomer, I didn’t expect you to be. It’s a phrase that represents the joke of this new generalization.

    I understand that most people like other new Star Wars things. But to be honest, nothing Star Wars is really new anymore. It’s all just rewritten content. The morals and themes never change.

    I can’t answer to all the failures of the sequels. I do care that you agree that we can share our own separate opinions about the sequels. However, often times the situation results in me defending something Star Wars because people have the nerve to try and force their opinions on everyone else. I like most of Star Wars. You can dislike which parts of it that you want, but please, don’t try and ruin it for others. I don’t believe that the sequels should be scrapped and remade. I just believe that if you don’t like the sequels, make something else that is better.

    I got what they tried to explain. I reject it wholeheartedly. He had an established character completely betray everything they stand for. The character that was willing to die because he could see good in a monster and believed nobody beyond redemption... also thought about killing a child. He didn’t just make a mistake. He betrayed his ideals. I don’t care that it was brief. We all do and say and think things we aren’t proud of. But that goes far beyond anything I would ever accept. It doesn’t make the point to me that everyone makes mistakes. It makes the point that the director believes nobody actually has any real values that they would hold to.

    However, even without that the last two movies are loaded with plot holes and contrivances throughout. It would be fine if I could just ignore it, and go back and watch the OT. But now when I watch RotJ I can’t unknow that Luke will turn into a crotchety old hypocrite. And likely we will NEVER have any other big screen live action media with him being anything else. Ford is happy to be done with the role. Fisher is gone. This was the only opportunity we were ever going to get with the old characters on this level and that’s what we got. We did not and will not ever get them being what they had grown into on the big screen, and then passing on what they had learned to new characters who would carry the torch. We got one movie with Luke betraying his ideals and then dying. Again. That is one minor point on my list of why I hate the ST. I’m as entitled to detest it as you are to love it.

    And if your previous argument had any substance other than dismissing me because I’m old then I’d accept your criticism of the “ok boomer” thing. I get that people throw in memes just for a laugh, or to punctuate a single point. However your main point seemed to be predicated on the fact that I only held my opinion because I’m old. Which was false. I don’t like the trilogy of my generation. I think the one from before my birth is better. And the ST are to me some of the worst movies I’ve ever seen. So we can agree to disagree.
  • Prequel Trilogy
    First saw the prequels with my grandma on DVD when I was like 4 or 5. Binged watch them all and it got me really started into star wars. She also had the OT and we watched them all to but at the time 5 yr old me liked special effects of the PT more. Played alot of battlefront 1&2 (OG xbox & ps2). I haven't watched any of the new trilogy yet so no judgement on them
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    Prequel Trilogy
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    The original trilogy has its plot holes and Issues, but it’s a good story with good characters.

    The prequel trilogy was a good story poorly executed. There are some great characters, but they were forced to deliver some of the worst dialogue ever uttered on screen. If Lucas had let someone else help with that part then they could have been fantastic.

    The sequel trilogy is a terrible story with forgettable characters. Every movie was worse than the last for me. I detest them with every fiber of my being, and they’ actually managed to ruin Star Wars for me. After Attack of the Clones (which was the prequel I hated the most) I could still watch the old movies and enjoy them. That was before the sequels disrespected and destroyed them. Now when I watch Luke stake his life on his principles and Vader sacrifice himself for his son all I think is that Vader accomplished nothing because the Emperor is fine, and Luke will one day throw everything he believes out the window.

    Not that my only hatred for the sequels is that it destroys everything good about Star Wars. I could write a book about why there are a trash fire in their own right. But I can’t escape that by just not watching them. I can’t enjoy something that I used to love anymore either.
    "Prequels is bad but you have to forgive everything about the movie so its not bad at all! But that gosh darn sequels!!!"

    Sequels cannot disrespect the older movies since it takes place in the future, with things happening in between that led to the characters being slightly different than you remembered them to be, as passage of time, usually does

    Prequels can disrespect original trilogy by changing some details of how things played out, or introduce contradicting elements to the story, which it does

    I don't see how prequels get a pass with poor execution, worst dialogue, and sequel trilogy doesn't get the same treatment.

    I never said you have to forgive the prequels. I’ve not once watched Attack of the Clones since I saw it in the theater. It’s horrible. The others I can stand to watch. And I love the characters in other media when a better writer is doing dialogue. They could have tweaked lines of dialogue in them and made great movies. They aren’t. They’re just OK. But I like the story they were trying to tell.

    There is nothing about the sequels I would salvage. The story was cobbled together as they went with no plan. They need to be rewritten from scratch. I hate them from top to bottom. I can pick out little moments that were enjoyable, but not enough to salvage them.

    It’s the difference between a car than runs but needs to be repainted verses a car that’s been completely totaled.

    And yes you can disrespect someone from the future. I could say hateful things about deceased relatives and that would be disrespectful even though they are long gone. So that makes no sense.

    TLJ did that by having someone who saved his father because he could see good where nobody else could... consider murdering his young nephew in his sleep. Instead of having the characters change a little, they could take everything that they stood for and held sacred and throw it out the window when writing them.

    The prequels don’t do anything that destroys established characters to that degree.

    Ok boomer.

    Most people that I know that saw the prequels in theaters have never touched them again. My parents fell asleep during Episode 1 and that’s the only time they ever tried 1 2 or 3.

    The sequels have created an uprising. Boycotts, anger, and so on. They will probably be looked down upon as inferior to the great and holy OT. In the eyes of the generations before.

    People are too imbedded in their personal versions of Star Wars. What it needs to be. And when it changes (you know, as time goes on) older folk typically see it as a step down (I see it as protecting the dignity of their own generation, but that’s a generalization I’m not willing to defend). People lose their minds because they are convinced that their version has to be right. So they trash the newer movies on the internet. And younger generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And older generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And Disney looks up and says, oh no, time to go back to the old formulas. And then nothing ever changes. That’s why the sequel trilogy feels like a carbon copy that is trying to be its own thing. That’s why the saga “ended”. That’s why older characters were resolved and newer ones forgotten. That’s why they hide their modern themes and gay people and progressive acts behind large signs that say “This is nostalgia and we are trying so desperately to play to your ideas, so that we can make you love this. Because kids do. They see Rey and go I want to be like her. But older fans see Rey and say she could never be as good as Luke, so that when they try to do something new, when they try to show you that the greatest legends can make the greatest mistakes and you can too, older, more protective fans turn their backs and hope they never have to endure that kind of disrespect ever again because yeah, it hurts man, and I know it does, but the sequels can’t change a character, only develop them. It’s not disrespect, it’s a lesson, and if you can’t take it, then you’ll never really know Luke Skywalker. The sequels can’t ruin a character; if you believe that, then you don’t believe in Luke Skywalker. Rian Johnson’s biggest mistake was stepping too far off the ledge and then falling to his doom because he tried to change people’s minds. J.J. played it safe both times. The sequels biggest mistake was listening to the Internet and not taking it one step further. Because the general audience is more important than the fans. They’re giving me the cut signal, so I’ll step off my soapbox now. I’d like to thank-

    I’m not a boomer. I wasn’t born yet when the old trilogy started. I was a teenager when the prequels came out. The prequel era was the time I got into Star Wars. And yet, I’m not a fan. They were just OK, but they led me to the OT which I liked better. When the sequels started I desperately wanted to like them. I desperately wanted to like Rey. I tried to like them but they have been a big disappointment.

    I know this might be hard to understand, but the primary reason is because they are poorly written movies with poorly written characters. In my opinion. You can like them, and I’ll be happy for you. I can think they’re trash if I want. Feel free to continue to say, “OK boomer” even though I’m a millennial. The misapplied ad hominem attack really proves that there couldn’t possibly be any valid reasons behind my opinion. It’s got to be my age, so just keep using the trendy new term for being dismissive of the elderly.

    I liked Solo. I liked R1. I liked the Clone Wars cartoon. I liked Rebels. I’m usually pretty open minded and forgiving especially of anything with Star Wars on it. I just hate the ST. I could PM you my very long list as to why if you actually care.

    And yes. You CAN be disrespectful to a character in a sequel. Nothing you’ve said proves otherwise. If Luke spent the last movie stealing candy from children, and kicking puppies down the stairs that would be about equal to the “development” we got from his character. Instead he accidentally wanted to murder a helpless, sleeping boy.

    They tried to explain it to the audience, why Luke failed, but no one listened. He had a moment of failure, and the audience took that to mean that this wasn’t the Luke they knew. Rian tried to show you that no matter how much Luke committed himself to the light and his morals, he can still make a mistake. He did not intend to kill his nephew. He only faltered for a second, and it made him feel terrible.

    I forgot that on the internet it’s difficult to make throwaway jokes like “ok boomer” because people will try and expose your entire argument by attacking that one little point. Of course you’re not a boomer, I didn’t expect you to be. It’s a phrase that represents the joke of this new generalization.

    I understand that most people like other new Star Wars things. But to be honest, nothing Star Wars is really new anymore. It’s all just rewritten content. The morals and themes never change.

    I can’t answer to all the failures of the sequels. I do care that you agree that we can share our own separate opinions about the sequels. However, often times the situation results in me defending something Star Wars because people have the nerve to try and force their opinions on everyone else. I like most of Star Wars. You can dislike which parts of it that you want, but please, don’t try and ruin it for others. I don’t believe that the sequels should be scrapped and remade. I just believe that if you don’t like the sequels, make something else that is better.

    I got what they tried to explain. I reject it wholeheartedly. He had an established character completely betray everything they stand for. The character that was willing to die because he could see good in a monster and believed nobody beyond redemption... also thought about killing a child. He didn’t just make a mistake. He betrayed his ideals. I don’t care that it was brief. We all do and say and think things we aren’t proud of. But that goes far beyond anything I would ever accept. It doesn’t make the point to me that everyone makes mistakes. It makes the point that the director believes nobody actually has any real values that they would hold to.

    However, even without that the last two movies are loaded with plot holes and contrivances throughout. It would be fine if I could just ignore it, and go back and watch the OT. But now when I watch RotJ I can’t unknow that Luke will turn into a crotchety old hypocrite. And likely we will NEVER have any other big screen live action media with him being anything else. Ford is happy to be done with the role. Fisher is gone. This was the only opportunity we were ever going to get with the old characters on this level and that’s what we got. We did not and will not ever get them being what they had grown into on the big screen, and then passing on what they had learned to new characters who would carry the torch. We got one movie with Luke betraying his ideals and then dying. Again. That is one minor point on my list of why I hate the ST. I’m as entitled to detest it as you are to love it.

    And if your previous argument had any substance other than dismissing me because I’m old then I’d accept your criticism of the “ok boomer” thing. I get that people throw in memes just for a laugh, or to punctuate a single point. However your main point seemed to be predicated on the fact that I only held my opinion because I’m old. Which was false. I don’t like the trilogy of my generation. I think the one from before my birth is better. And the ST are to me some of the worst movies I’ve ever seen. So we can agree to disagree.

    My argument did not rely on you being old and you know that. Stop trying to ward me away with that nonsense.

    You can disbelieve what happened with Luke, but if it makes you feel any better, he was redeemed. You can now go back and watch Empire and know that eventually, Luke gets to lift his X-Wing with the Force too. He helped inspire the galaxy. He still had years before betraying his nephew where he was a powerful Jedi. Even from your perspective, not all hope is lost for Luke.

    Kylo was done very well in TROS. It’s hard to say that Leia and Han’s son didn’t continue their legacy when he demonstrated a compelling character arc in this movie.

    It’s okay if we disagree. I’m just trying to help you see at least some good in what has come, because it won’t change, and I doubt that you would want to live the rest of Star Wars I’m disappointment.
  • Original Trilogy
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    The original trilogy has its plot holes and Issues, but it’s a good story with good characters.

    The prequel trilogy was a good story poorly executed. There are some great characters, but they were forced to deliver some of the worst dialogue ever uttered on screen. If Lucas had let someone else help with that part then they could have been fantastic.

    The sequel trilogy is a terrible story with forgettable characters. Every movie was worse than the last for me. I detest them with every fiber of my being, and they’ actually managed to ruin Star Wars for me. After Attack of the Clones (which was the prequel I hated the most) I could still watch the old movies and enjoy them. That was before the sequels disrespected and destroyed them. Now when I watch Luke stake his life on his principles and Vader sacrifice himself for his son all I think is that Vader accomplished nothing because the Emperor is fine, and Luke will one day throw everything he believes out the window.

    Not that my only hatred for the sequels is that it destroys everything good about Star Wars. I could write a book about why there are a trash fire in their own right. But I can’t escape that by just not watching them. I can’t enjoy something that I used to love anymore either.
    "Prequels is bad but you have to forgive everything about the movie so its not bad at all! But that gosh darn sequels!!!"

    Sequels cannot disrespect the older movies since it takes place in the future, with things happening in between that led to the characters being slightly different than you remembered them to be, as passage of time, usually does

    Prequels can disrespect original trilogy by changing some details of how things played out, or introduce contradicting elements to the story, which it does

    I don't see how prequels get a pass with poor execution, worst dialogue, and sequel trilogy doesn't get the same treatment.

    I never said you have to forgive the prequels. I’ve not once watched Attack of the Clones since I saw it in the theater. It’s horrible. The others I can stand to watch. And I love the characters in other media when a better writer is doing dialogue. They could have tweaked lines of dialogue in them and made great movies. They aren’t. They’re just OK. But I like the story they were trying to tell.

    There is nothing about the sequels I would salvage. The story was cobbled together as they went with no plan. They need to be rewritten from scratch. I hate them from top to bottom. I can pick out little moments that were enjoyable, but not enough to salvage them.

    It’s the difference between a car than runs but needs to be repainted verses a car that’s been completely totaled.

    And yes you can disrespect someone from the future. I could say hateful things about deceased relatives and that would be disrespectful even though they are long gone. So that makes no sense.

    TLJ did that by having someone who saved his father because he could see good where nobody else could... consider murdering his young nephew in his sleep. Instead of having the characters change a little, they could take everything that they stood for and held sacred and throw it out the window when writing them.

    The prequels don’t do anything that destroys established characters to that degree.

    Ok boomer.

    Most people that I know that saw the prequels in theaters have never touched them again. My parents fell asleep during Episode 1 and that’s the only time they ever tried 1 2 or 3.

    The sequels have created an uprising. Boycotts, anger, and so on. They will probably be looked down upon as inferior to the great and holy OT. In the eyes of the generations before.

    People are too imbedded in their personal versions of Star Wars. What it needs to be. And when it changes (you know, as time goes on) older folk typically see it as a step down (I see it as protecting the dignity of their own generation, but that’s a generalization I’m not willing to defend). People lose their minds because they are convinced that their version has to be right. So they trash the newer movies on the internet. And younger generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And older generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And Disney looks up and says, oh no, time to go back to the old formulas. And then nothing ever changes. That’s why the sequel trilogy feels like a carbon copy that is trying to be its own thing. That’s why the saga “ended”. That’s why older characters were resolved and newer ones forgotten. That’s why they hide their modern themes and gay people and progressive acts behind large signs that say “This is nostalgia and we are trying so desperately to play to your ideas, so that we can make you love this. Because kids do. They see Rey and go I want to be like her. But older fans see Rey and say she could never be as good as Luke, so that when they try to do something new, when they try to show you that the greatest legends can make the greatest mistakes and you can too, older, more protective fans turn their backs and hope they never have to endure that kind of disrespect ever again because yeah, it hurts man, and I know it does, but the sequels can’t change a character, only develop them. It’s not disrespect, it’s a lesson, and if you can’t take it, then you’ll never really know Luke Skywalker. The sequels can’t ruin a character; if you believe that, then you don’t believe in Luke Skywalker. Rian Johnson’s biggest mistake was stepping too far off the ledge and then falling to his doom because he tried to change people’s minds. J.J. played it safe both times. The sequels biggest mistake was listening to the Internet and not taking it one step further. Because the general audience is more important than the fans. They’re giving me the cut signal, so I’ll step off my soapbox now. I’d like to thank-

    I’m not a boomer. I wasn’t born yet when the old trilogy started. I was a teenager when the prequels came out. The prequel era was the time I got into Star Wars. And yet, I’m not a fan. They were just OK, but they led me to the OT which I liked better. When the sequels started I desperately wanted to like them. I desperately wanted to like Rey. I tried to like them but they have been a big disappointment.

    I know this might be hard to understand, but the primary reason is because they are poorly written movies with poorly written characters. In my opinion. You can like them, and I’ll be happy for you. I can think they’re trash if I want. Feel free to continue to say, “OK boomer” even though I’m a millennial. The misapplied ad hominem attack really proves that there couldn’t possibly be any valid reasons behind my opinion. It’s got to be my age, so just keep using the trendy new term for being dismissive of the elderly.

    I liked Solo. I liked R1. I liked the Clone Wars cartoon. I liked Rebels. I’m usually pretty open minded and forgiving especially of anything with Star Wars on it. I just hate the ST. I could PM you my very long list as to why if you actually care.

    And yes. You CAN be disrespectful to a character in a sequel. Nothing you’ve said proves otherwise. If Luke spent the last movie stealing candy from children, and kicking puppies down the stairs that would be about equal to the “development” we got from his character. Instead he accidentally wanted to murder a helpless, sleeping boy.

    They tried to explain it to the audience, why Luke failed, but no one listened. He had a moment of failure, and the audience took that to mean that this wasn’t the Luke they knew. Rian tried to show you that no matter how much Luke committed himself to the light and his morals, he can still make a mistake. He did not intend to kill his nephew. He only faltered for a second, and it made him feel terrible.

    I forgot that on the internet it’s difficult to make throwaway jokes like “ok boomer” because people will try and expose your entire argument by attacking that one little point. Of course you’re not a boomer, I didn’t expect you to be. It’s a phrase that represents the joke of this new generalization.

    I understand that most people like other new Star Wars things. But to be honest, nothing Star Wars is really new anymore. It’s all just rewritten content. The morals and themes never change.

    I can’t answer to all the failures of the sequels. I do care that you agree that we can share our own separate opinions about the sequels. However, often times the situation results in me defending something Star Wars because people have the nerve to try and force their opinions on everyone else. I like most of Star Wars. You can dislike which parts of it that you want, but please, don’t try and ruin it for others. I don’t believe that the sequels should be scrapped and remade. I just believe that if you don’t like the sequels, make something else that is better.

    I got what they tried to explain. I reject it wholeheartedly. He had an established character completely betray everything they stand for. The character that was willing to die because he could see good in a monster and believed nobody beyond redemption... also thought about killing a child. He didn’t just make a mistake. He betrayed his ideals. I don’t care that it was brief. We all do and say and think things we aren’t proud of. But that goes far beyond anything I would ever accept. It doesn’t make the point to me that everyone makes mistakes. It makes the point that the director believes nobody actually has any real values that they would hold to.

    However, even without that the last two movies are loaded with plot holes and contrivances throughout. It would be fine if I could just ignore it, and go back and watch the OT. But now when I watch RotJ I can’t unknow that Luke will turn into a crotchety old hypocrite. And likely we will NEVER have any other big screen live action media with him being anything else. Ford is happy to be done with the role. Fisher is gone. This was the only opportunity we were ever going to get with the old characters on this level and that’s what we got. We did not and will not ever get them being what they had grown into on the big screen, and then passing on what they had learned to new characters who would carry the torch. We got one movie with Luke betraying his ideals and then dying. Again. That is one minor point on my list of why I hate the ST. I’m as entitled to detest it as you are to love it.

    And if your previous argument had any substance other than dismissing me because I’m old then I’d accept your criticism of the “ok boomer” thing. I get that people throw in memes just for a laugh, or to punctuate a single point. However your main point seemed to be predicated on the fact that I only held my opinion because I’m old. Which was false. I don’t like the trilogy of my generation. I think the one from before my birth is better. And the ST are to me some of the worst movies I’ve ever seen. So we can agree to disagree.

    My argument did not rely on you being old and you know that. Stop trying to ward me away with that nonsense.

    You can disbelieve what happened with Luke, but if it makes you feel any better, he was redeemed. You can now go back and watch Empire and know that eventually, Luke gets to lift his X-Wing with the Force too. He helped inspire the galaxy. He still had years before betraying his nephew where he was a powerful Jedi. Even from your perspective, not all hope is lost for Luke.

    Kylo was done very well in TROS. It’s hard to say that Leia and Han’s son didn’t continue their legacy when he demonstrated a compelling character arc in this movie.

    It’s okay if we disagree. I’m just trying to help you see at least some good in what has come, because it won’t change, and I doubt that you would want to live the rest of Star Wars I’m disappointment.

    Luke wasn’t redeemed in episode 9. Instead of writing a good story, JJ spent a bit over 2 hours giving an inappropriate gesture to the previous director in a sorry attempt to undo everything in the previous movie. But as the Bendu said, “Once something is known, it cannot be unknown.” The damage is done. I don’t want to be permanently disappointed in something I used to find joy in, but that’s where we are. Not your problem to fix. Life is mostly disappointments, and there are far more serious things to complain about. I was just trying put my 2 cents in since someone put up a poll and asked.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    Prequel Trilogy
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    The original trilogy has its plot holes and Issues, but it’s a good story with good characters.

    The prequel trilogy was a good story poorly executed. There are some great characters, but they were forced to deliver some of the worst dialogue ever uttered on screen. If Lucas had let someone else help with that part then they could have been fantastic.

    The sequel trilogy is a terrible story with forgettable characters. Every movie was worse than the last for me. I detest them with every fiber of my being, and they’ actually managed to ruin Star Wars for me. After Attack of the Clones (which was the prequel I hated the most) I could still watch the old movies and enjoy them. That was before the sequels disrespected and destroyed them. Now when I watch Luke stake his life on his principles and Vader sacrifice himself for his son all I think is that Vader accomplished nothing because the Emperor is fine, and Luke will one day throw everything he believes out the window.

    Not that my only hatred for the sequels is that it destroys everything good about Star Wars. I could write a book about why there are a trash fire in their own right. But I can’t escape that by just not watching them. I can’t enjoy something that I used to love anymore either.
    "Prequels is bad but you have to forgive everything about the movie so its not bad at all! But that gosh darn sequels!!!"

    Sequels cannot disrespect the older movies since it takes place in the future, with things happening in between that led to the characters being slightly different than you remembered them to be, as passage of time, usually does

    Prequels can disrespect original trilogy by changing some details of how things played out, or introduce contradicting elements to the story, which it does

    I don't see how prequels get a pass with poor execution, worst dialogue, and sequel trilogy doesn't get the same treatment.

    I never said you have to forgive the prequels. I’ve not once watched Attack of the Clones since I saw it in the theater. It’s horrible. The others I can stand to watch. And I love the characters in other media when a better writer is doing dialogue. They could have tweaked lines of dialogue in them and made great movies. They aren’t. They’re just OK. But I like the story they were trying to tell.

    There is nothing about the sequels I would salvage. The story was cobbled together as they went with no plan. They need to be rewritten from scratch. I hate them from top to bottom. I can pick out little moments that were enjoyable, but not enough to salvage them.

    It’s the difference between a car than runs but needs to be repainted verses a car that’s been completely totaled.

    And yes you can disrespect someone from the future. I could say hateful things about deceased relatives and that would be disrespectful even though they are long gone. So that makes no sense.

    TLJ did that by having someone who saved his father because he could see good where nobody else could... consider murdering his young nephew in his sleep. Instead of having the characters change a little, they could take everything that they stood for and held sacred and throw it out the window when writing them.

    The prequels don’t do anything that destroys established characters to that degree.

    Ok boomer.

    Most people that I know that saw the prequels in theaters have never touched them again. My parents fell asleep during Episode 1 and that’s the only time they ever tried 1 2 or 3.

    The sequels have created an uprising. Boycotts, anger, and so on. They will probably be looked down upon as inferior to the great and holy OT. In the eyes of the generations before.

    People are too imbedded in their personal versions of Star Wars. What it needs to be. And when it changes (you know, as time goes on) older folk typically see it as a step down (I see it as protecting the dignity of their own generation, but that’s a generalization I’m not willing to defend). People lose their minds because they are convinced that their version has to be right. So they trash the newer movies on the internet. And younger generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And older generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And Disney looks up and says, oh no, time to go back to the old formulas. And then nothing ever changes. That’s why the sequel trilogy feels like a carbon copy that is trying to be its own thing. That’s why the saga “ended”. That’s why older characters were resolved and newer ones forgotten. That’s why they hide their modern themes and gay people and progressive acts behind large signs that say “This is nostalgia and we are trying so desperately to play to your ideas, so that we can make you love this. Because kids do. They see Rey and go I want to be like her. But older fans see Rey and say she could never be as good as Luke, so that when they try to do something new, when they try to show you that the greatest legends can make the greatest mistakes and you can too, older, more protective fans turn their backs and hope they never have to endure that kind of disrespect ever again because yeah, it hurts man, and I know it does, but the sequels can’t change a character, only develop them. It’s not disrespect, it’s a lesson, and if you can’t take it, then you’ll never really know Luke Skywalker. The sequels can’t ruin a character; if you believe that, then you don’t believe in Luke Skywalker. Rian Johnson’s biggest mistake was stepping too far off the ledge and then falling to his doom because he tried to change people’s minds. J.J. played it safe both times. The sequels biggest mistake was listening to the Internet and not taking it one step further. Because the general audience is more important than the fans. They’re giving me the cut signal, so I’ll step off my soapbox now. I’d like to thank-

    I’m not a boomer. I wasn’t born yet when the old trilogy started. I was a teenager when the prequels came out. The prequel era was the time I got into Star Wars. And yet, I’m not a fan. They were just OK, but they led me to the OT which I liked better. When the sequels started I desperately wanted to like them. I desperately wanted to like Rey. I tried to like them but they have been a big disappointment.

    I know this might be hard to understand, but the primary reason is because they are poorly written movies with poorly written characters. In my opinion. You can like them, and I’ll be happy for you. I can think they’re trash if I want. Feel free to continue to say, “OK boomer” even though I’m a millennial. The misapplied ad hominem attack really proves that there couldn’t possibly be any valid reasons behind my opinion. It’s got to be my age, so just keep using the trendy new term for being dismissive of the elderly.

    I liked Solo. I liked R1. I liked the Clone Wars cartoon. I liked Rebels. I’m usually pretty open minded and forgiving especially of anything with Star Wars on it. I just hate the ST. I could PM you my very long list as to why if you actually care.

    And yes. You CAN be disrespectful to a character in a sequel. Nothing you’ve said proves otherwise. If Luke spent the last movie stealing candy from children, and kicking puppies down the stairs that would be about equal to the “development” we got from his character. Instead he accidentally wanted to murder a helpless, sleeping boy.

    They tried to explain it to the audience, why Luke failed, but no one listened. He had a moment of failure, and the audience took that to mean that this wasn’t the Luke they knew. Rian tried to show you that no matter how much Luke committed himself to the light and his morals, he can still make a mistake. He did not intend to kill his nephew. He only faltered for a second, and it made him feel terrible.

    I forgot that on the internet it’s difficult to make throwaway jokes like “ok boomer” because people will try and expose your entire argument by attacking that one little point. Of course you’re not a boomer, I didn’t expect you to be. It’s a phrase that represents the joke of this new generalization.

    I understand that most people like other new Star Wars things. But to be honest, nothing Star Wars is really new anymore. It’s all just rewritten content. The morals and themes never change.

    I can’t answer to all the failures of the sequels. I do care that you agree that we can share our own separate opinions about the sequels. However, often times the situation results in me defending something Star Wars because people have the nerve to try and force their opinions on everyone else. I like most of Star Wars. You can dislike which parts of it that you want, but please, don’t try and ruin it for others. I don’t believe that the sequels should be scrapped and remade. I just believe that if you don’t like the sequels, make something else that is better.

    I got what they tried to explain. I reject it wholeheartedly. He had an established character completely betray everything they stand for. The character that was willing to die because he could see good in a monster and believed nobody beyond redemption... also thought about killing a child. He didn’t just make a mistake. He betrayed his ideals. I don’t care that it was brief. We all do and say and think things we aren’t proud of. But that goes far beyond anything I would ever accept. It doesn’t make the point to me that everyone makes mistakes. It makes the point that the director believes nobody actually has any real values that they would hold to.

    However, even without that the last two movies are loaded with plot holes and contrivances throughout. It would be fine if I could just ignore it, and go back and watch the OT. But now when I watch RotJ I can’t unknow that Luke will turn into a crotchety old hypocrite. And likely we will NEVER have any other big screen live action media with him being anything else. Ford is happy to be done with the role. Fisher is gone. This was the only opportunity we were ever going to get with the old characters on this level and that’s what we got. We did not and will not ever get them being what they had grown into on the big screen, and then passing on what they had learned to new characters who would carry the torch. We got one movie with Luke betraying his ideals and then dying. Again. That is one minor point on my list of why I hate the ST. I’m as entitled to detest it as you are to love it.

    And if your previous argument had any substance other than dismissing me because I’m old then I’d accept your criticism of the “ok boomer” thing. I get that people throw in memes just for a laugh, or to punctuate a single point. However your main point seemed to be predicated on the fact that I only held my opinion because I’m old. Which was false. I don’t like the trilogy of my generation. I think the one from before my birth is better. And the ST are to me some of the worst movies I’ve ever seen. So we can agree to disagree.

    My argument did not rely on you being old and you know that. Stop trying to ward me away with that nonsense.

    You can disbelieve what happened with Luke, but if it makes you feel any better, he was redeemed. You can now go back and watch Empire and know that eventually, Luke gets to lift his X-Wing with the Force too. He helped inspire the galaxy. He still had years before betraying his nephew where he was a powerful Jedi. Even from your perspective, not all hope is lost for Luke.

    Kylo was done very well in TROS. It’s hard to say that Leia and Han’s son didn’t continue their legacy when he demonstrated a compelling character arc in this movie.

    It’s okay if we disagree. I’m just trying to help you see at least some good in what has come, because it won’t change, and I doubt that you would want to live the rest of Star Wars I’m disappointment.

    Luke wasn’t redeemed in episode 9. Instead of writing a good story, JJ spent a bit over 2 hours giving an inappropriate gesture to the previous director in a sorry attempt to undo everything in the previous movie. But as the Bendu said, “Once something is known, it cannot be unknown.” The damage is done. I don’t want to be permanently disappointed in something I used to find joy in, but that’s where we are. Not your problem to fix. Life is mostly disappointments, and there are far more serious things to complain about. I was just trying put my 2 cents in since someone put up a poll and asked.

    Well if you look at life that way, then yeah, it’s pretty disappointing. I prefer to look at the good side of everything. Such as in this argument, I at least hope that maybe you’ll try and find the good in what you dislike. Like Luke did with Vader. Not my problem to fix, but I like to at least try and help.

    Luke was redeemed in 8, not 9. He just did something that was cool in 9. JJ made Luke’s sacrifice seem less important in 9, but he still redeemed himself as a Jedi.
  • Prequel Trilogy
    TVF wrote: »

    The PT is utter garbage.

    Noooo! I'm gonna have to go back and retitle my "Everything TVF Says is pure gold" post to Almost Everything...
  • Prequel Trilogy
    TVF wrote: »

    The PT is utter garbage.

    Noooo! I'm gonna have to go back and retitle my "Everything TVF Says is pure gold" post to Almost Everything...

    Actually, apparently that post was deleted... weird.
  • TVF
    31981 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »

    The PT is utter garbage.

    Noooo! I'm gonna have to go back and retitle my "Everything TVF Says is pure gold" post to Almost Everything...

    Previously undefeated.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of the change to the shipment tab. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Eutus
    229 posts Member
    Woof, something went wrong when I tried to quote. I have a box set of the OT trilogy (on dvd) that has both the special editions and the og releases. Idk about low quality disks, but I always watch the bonus disks with those cuts when I go to watch any OT movies and I have no complaints about the quality of the disks. No idea where youd find them on blue ray.

    Wont vote cause this poll is missing several trilogys that I enjoyed way more than the sequel trilogy. I agree that pt is the best as far as lore and world building go, but you have to include clone wars material to make the whole thing really work, i dont think its still a trilogy with 4 movies and 6 seasons of tv show. Change the title to what era of star wars is your favorite or which set of movies is your favorite and I have an answer. Tho looking at results its about what id expect. The old gaurd is still most prevelant and the nufans exsist.
  • Original Trilogy
    Baby_Yoda wrote: »
    1. PT
    2. ST
    3. OT

    Not because I think anything bad of the OT. Obviously they are incredible. I just prefer the PT since that is what I grew up with. And I'm just loving the ST.

    Yeah I didn't grow up in the OT times so I never really watched it.

    Until disney+ came and improved the graphics I couldn't bare to watch it.

    Now its aight.

    Too bad graphics can't make a plot good. No offense, but discrediting a trilogy only based on graphics is a bit one dimensional. If it wasn't for Star Wars, the graphics we have today wouldn't be as advanced, IMHO. Lucas helped revolutionize special effects. I think in 50 years, we will think the cg of our day is garbage to the advancements that will be made.
    I find myself in the same group that grew up with the prequels. I can't say Phantom Menace was better than any of the originals, but I think Revenge of the Sith is a great movie, on par with Empire Strikes Back. I kinda mix the two when it comes to making a list.
  • TVF
    31981 posts Member
    Revenge of the Sith is a great movie, on par with Empire Strikes Back.

    Ugh no.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of the change to the shipment tab. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Original Trilogy
    TVF wrote: »
    Revenge of the Sith is a great movie, on par with Empire Strikes Back.

    Ugh no.

    Respectfully disagree.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Revenge of the Sith is a great movie, on par with Empire Strikes Back.

    Ugh no.

    Interesting things happened in Revenge of the Sith, but it has some of the most cringe worthy scenes and dumbfounding dialogue of the entire nine movies. I'd love to say it was a great movie, but even some of the set pieces were horrible (The chancellor's office as an example).

    Perhaps the true tragedy of the character of Anakin Skywalker is that Lucas never gave anyone who played him a chance with the dialog written for him. No wonder he became a Sith, he had James Earl Jones waiting to deliver some of the best lines in the saga.

    For my part, I grew up with the OT and am firmly convinced you experience movies relative to everything else going on in your life at the time, so the poll question is asking a much more complicated question than it realizes. And they're all great to a degree and not great to a degree - it's Star Wars!!
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Original Trilogy
    Nihion wrote: »
    It’s a no brainer because the most invested people play this game, which are typically older or younger OT fans.

    Wrong
  • TVF
    31981 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Revenge of the Sith is a great movie, on par with Empire Strikes Back.

    Ugh no.

    Respectfully disagree.

    giphy.gif
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of the change to the shipment tab. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Original Trilogy
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    The original trilogy has its plot holes and Issues, but it’s a good story with good characters.

    The prequel trilogy was a good story poorly executed. There are some great characters, but they were forced to deliver some of the worst dialogue ever uttered on screen. If Lucas had let someone else help with that part then they could have been fantastic.

    The sequel trilogy is a terrible story with forgettable characters. Every movie was worse than the last for me. I detest them with every fiber of my being, and they’ actually managed to ruin Star Wars for me. After Attack of the Clones (which was the prequel I hated the most) I could still watch the old movies and enjoy them. That was before the sequels disrespected and destroyed them. Now when I watch Luke stake his life on his principles and Vader sacrifice himself for his son all I think is that Vader accomplished nothing because the Emperor is fine, and Luke will one day throw everything he believes out the window.

    Not that my only hatred for the sequels is that it destroys everything good about Star Wars. I could write a book about why there are a trash fire in their own right. But I can’t escape that by just not watching them. I can’t enjoy something that I used to love anymore either.

    PT had some issues, it was executed not as well as people would like, but it did adhere to an overall story set in place by the OT - fall of republic and Jedi, Rise of the Empire and Vader etc.

    The ST respects nothing that has come before it at all. It also didn't have an overall story to adhere to and was just a jumbled mess.

    The OT was groundbreaking, in its story, characters and effects - it was entertaining because of all those things. The PT again broke new grounds with effects, its characters were also good, and its overall story was good (but like I say, not executed properly) - it was still entertaining because of how it was all quite action packed compared to the OT, but also how it all came to an end and flowed into the OT.

    The ST has poor characters, poor story and disrespects older characters and stories and ends poorly. It is a jumbled mess of a trilogy that throws good effects and nostalgia at fans in hopes that the audience will like it. It has some mindless entertainment, but not as entertaining at the OT or PT - because I like to be able to root for properly developed characters that the audience should relate to and resonate with, on a path or story that is well written and takes the audience on a compelling journey.
  • Original Trilogy
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Revenge of the Sith is a great movie, on par with Empire Strikes Back.

    Ugh no.

    Respectfully disagree.

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    Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
  • TVF
    31981 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Revenge of the Sith is a great movie, on par with Empire Strikes Back.

    Ugh no.

    Respectfully disagree.

    giphy.gif

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

    I agree.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of the change to the shipment tab. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Original Trilogy
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    The original trilogy has its plot holes and Issues, but it’s a good story with good characters.

    The prequel trilogy was a good story poorly executed. There are some great characters, but they were forced to deliver some of the worst dialogue ever uttered on screen. If Lucas had let someone else help with that part then they could have been fantastic.

    The sequel trilogy is a terrible story with forgettable characters. Every movie was worse than the last for me. I detest them with every fiber of my being, and they’ actually managed to ruin Star Wars for me. After Attack of the Clones (which was the prequel I hated the most) I could still watch the old movies and enjoy them. That was before the sequels disrespected and destroyed them. Now when I watch Luke stake his life on his principles and Vader sacrifice himself for his son all I think is that Vader accomplished nothing because the Emperor is fine, and Luke will one day throw everything he believes out the window.

    Not that my only hatred for the sequels is that it destroys everything good about Star Wars. I could write a book about why there are a trash fire in their own right. But I can’t escape that by just not watching them. I can’t enjoy something that I used to love anymore either.
    "Prequels is bad but you have to forgive everything about the movie so its not bad at all! But that gosh darn sequels!!!"

    Sequels cannot disrespect the older movies since it takes place in the future, with things happening in between that led to the characters being slightly different than you remembered them to be, as passage of time, usually does

    Prequels can disrespect original trilogy by changing some details of how things played out, or introduce contradicting elements to the story, which it does

    I don't see how prequels get a pass with poor execution, worst dialogue, and sequel trilogy doesn't get the same treatment.

    I never said you have to forgive the prequels. I’ve not once watched Attack of the Clones since I saw it in the theater. It’s horrible. The others I can stand to watch. And I love the characters in other media when a better writer is doing dialogue. They could have tweaked lines of dialogue in them and made great movies. They aren’t. They’re just OK. But I like the story they were trying to tell.

    There is nothing about the sequels I would salvage. The story was cobbled together as they went with no plan. They need to be rewritten from scratch. I hate them from top to bottom. I can pick out little moments that were enjoyable, but not enough to salvage them.

    It’s the difference between a car than runs but needs to be repainted verses a car that’s been completely totaled.

    And yes you can disrespect someone from the future. I could say hateful things about deceased relatives and that would be disrespectful even though they are long gone. So that makes no sense.

    TLJ did that by having someone who saved his father because he could see good where nobody else could... consider murdering his young nephew in his sleep. Instead of having the characters change a little, they could take everything that they stood for and held sacred and throw it out the window when writing them.

    The prequels don’t do anything that destroys established characters to that degree.

    Ok boomer.

    Most people that I know that saw the prequels in theaters have never touched them again. My parents fell asleep during Episode 1 and that’s the only time they ever tried 1 2 or 3.

    The sequels have created an uprising. Boycotts, anger, and so on. They will probably be looked down upon as inferior to the great and holy OT. In the eyes of the generations before.

    People are too imbedded in their personal versions of Star Wars. What it needs to be. And when it changes (you know, as time goes on) older folk typically see it as a step down (I see it as protecting the dignity of their own generation, but that’s a generalization I’m not willing to defend). People lose their minds because they are convinced that their version has to be right. So they trash the newer movies on the internet. And younger generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And older generations look up and say, wow, they’re right. And Disney looks up and says, oh no, time to go back to the old formulas. And then nothing ever changes. That’s why the sequel trilogy feels like a carbon copy that is trying to be its own thing. That’s why the saga “ended”. That’s why older characters were resolved and newer ones forgotten. That’s why they hide their modern themes and gay people and progressive acts behind large signs that say “This is nostalgia and we are trying so desperately to play to your ideas, so that we can make you love this. Because kids do. They see Rey and go I want to be like her. But older fans see Rey and say she could never be as good as Luke, so that when they try to do something new, when they try to show you that the greatest legends can make the greatest mistakes and you can too, older, more protective fans turn their backs and hope they never have to endure that kind of disrespect ever again because yeah, it hurts man, and I know it does, but the sequels can’t change a character, only develop them. It’s not disrespect, it’s a lesson, and if you can’t take it, then you’ll never really know Luke Skywalker. The sequels can’t ruin a character; if you believe that, then you don’t believe in Luke Skywalker. Rian Johnson’s biggest mistake was stepping too far off the ledge and then falling to his doom because he tried to change people’s minds. J.J. played it safe both times. The sequels biggest mistake was listening to the Internet and not taking it one step further. Because the general audience is more important than the fans. They’re giving me the cut signal, so I’ll step off my soapbox now. I’d like to thank-

    I’m not a boomer. I wasn’t born yet when the old trilogy started. I was a teenager when the prequels came out. The prequel era was the time I got into Star Wars. And yet, I’m not a fan. They were just OK, but they led me to the OT which I liked better. When the sequels started I desperately wanted to like them. I desperately wanted to like Rey. I tried to like them but they have been a big disappointment.

    I know this might be hard to understand, but the primary reason is because they are poorly written movies with poorly written characters. In my opinion. You can like them, and I’ll be happy for you. I can think they’re trash if I want. Feel free to continue to say, “OK boomer” even though I’m a millennial. The misapplied ad hominem attack really proves that there couldn’t possibly be any valid reasons behind my opinion. It’s got to be my age, so just keep using the trendy new term for being dismissive of the elderly.

    I liked Solo. I liked R1. I liked the Clone Wars cartoon. I liked Rebels. I’m usually pretty open minded and forgiving especially of anything with Star Wars on it. I just hate the ST. I could PM you my very long list as to why if you actually care.

    And yes. You CAN be disrespectful to a character in a sequel. Nothing you’ve said proves otherwise. If Luke spent the last movie stealing candy from children, and kicking puppies down the stairs that would be about equal to the “development” we got from his character. Instead he accidentally wanted to murder a helpless, sleeping boy.

    They tried to explain it to the audience, why Luke failed, but no one listened. He had a moment of failure, and the audience took that to mean that this wasn’t the Luke they knew. Rian tried to show you that no matter how much Luke committed himself to the light and his morals, he can still make a mistake. He did not intend to kill his nephew. He only faltered for a second, and it made him feel terrible.

    I forgot that on the internet it’s difficult to make throwaway jokes like “ok boomer” because people will try and expose your entire argument by attacking that one little point. Of course you’re not a boomer, I didn’t expect you to be. It’s a phrase that represents the joke of this new generalization.

    I understand that most people like other new Star Wars things. But to be honest, nothing Star Wars is really new anymore. It’s all just rewritten content. The morals and themes never change.

    I can’t answer to all the failures of the sequels. I do care that you agree that we can share our own separate opinions about the sequels. However, often times the situation results in me defending something Star Wars because people have the nerve to try and force their opinions on everyone else. I like most of Star Wars. You can dislike which parts of it that you want, but please, don’t try and ruin it for others. I don’t believe that the sequels should be scrapped and remade. I just believe that if you don’t like the sequels, make something else that is better.

    I got what they tried to explain. I reject it wholeheartedly. He had an established character completely betray everything they stand for. The character that was willing to die because he could see good in a monster and believed nobody beyond redemption... also thought about killing a child. He didn’t just make a mistake. He betrayed his ideals. I don’t care that it was brief. We all do and say and think things we aren’t proud of. But that goes far beyond anything I would ever accept. It doesn’t make the point to me that everyone makes mistakes. It makes the point that the director believes nobody actually has any real values that they would hold to.

    However, even without that the last two movies are loaded with plot holes and contrivances throughout. It would be fine if I could just ignore it, and go back and watch the OT. But now when I watch RotJ I can’t unknow that Luke will turn into a crotchety old hypocrite. And likely we will NEVER have any other big screen live action media with him being anything else. Ford is happy to be done with the role. Fisher is gone. This was the only opportunity we were ever going to get with the old characters on this level and that’s what we got. We did not and will not ever get them being what they had grown into on the big screen, and then passing on what they had learned to new characters who would carry the torch. We got one movie with Luke betraying his ideals and then dying. Again. That is one minor point on my list of why I hate the ST. I’m as entitled to detest it as you are to love it.

    And if your previous argument had any substance other than dismissing me because I’m old then I’d accept your criticism of the “ok boomer” thing. I get that people throw in memes just for a laugh, or to punctuate a single point. However your main point seemed to be predicated on the fact that I only held my opinion because I’m old. Which was false. I don’t like the trilogy of my generation. I think the one from before my birth is better. And the ST are to me some of the worst movies I’ve ever seen. So we can agree to disagree.

    100% agree!
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