Be With Me.... (Spoiler)

Replies

  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Movie is just total fan service. Not much of it makes sense. It is a bad Star Wars movie.

    Now they are saying she might not be dead but just knew Rey needed her support. Really stupid.

    Most of Star Wars currently is fan service. The entirety of the MCU is fan service. How do you think Disney plans to make money in the future? Nostalgia and fan service.
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Movie is just total fan service. Not much of it makes sense. It is a bad Star Wars movie.

    Now they are saying she might not be dead but just knew Rey needed her support. Really stupid.

    Most of Star Wars currently is fan service. The entirety of the MCU is fan service. How do you think Disney plans to make money in the future? Nostalgia and fan service.

    This movie was just in your face about it.

    Billy Dee just rolled out of bed, put on a funky outfit and laughed the whole time.

    Ben and Rey kissing?

    Leia’slightsaber

    I will take all the fan-service I can get.

    I have a friend who shares this thought. The problem is that fan service does nothing to display themes, creativity, or a good story arc. It’s mostly just back peddling the entire industry to cheap one shots that attempt to lure viewers for their money.

    I agree that it can often do those things. And I really don't like the Rey and Ben kiss. Could have done without it.

    But there is also an aspect of "fan service" that can engage creativity and the story with the audience that's not just meant to be garbage cheap shots. This is not some garbage magna with animated people in bathing suits or a romantic novel that's just one big description of something R rated. This is Star Wars. Of course there is going to be fan service. Baby Yoda is Baby Yoda cause of fan service, and it works in so many ways outside of "give us your money." The same can be said of Rise of Skywalker. There is so much in this movie that can be called "fan service" and it works on so many levels. There will be people who don't like it and think it's cheap, but there are people like your friend and I who appreciate the efforts and time it took to think this stuff through. On the topic of this post, I absolutely love every single Jedi voice that spoke to Rey, and really appreciate that Anakin's voice spoke to her most.

    TL;DR: It's all based on your opinion. And for me and your friend, this movie and its fan service served us well.

    Isn’t Rey related to Ben in some small way? If she’s EP granddaughter, and EP made Anakin, who made Luke and Leia, Leia who then made Ben, then they are in the same family tree. I guess it’s par for the SW course. At least they didn’t go full game of thrones.
  • Biggest Missed Opportunity in ROS

    An interesting article that doesn't just whine about fan service or Mary Sue issues.
  • Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Movie is just total fan service. Not much of it makes sense. It is a bad Star Wars movie.

    Now they are saying she might not be dead but just knew Rey needed her support. Really stupid.

    Most of Star Wars currently is fan service. The entirety of the MCU is fan service. How do you think Disney plans to make money in the future? Nostalgia and fan service.
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Movie is just total fan service. Not much of it makes sense. It is a bad Star Wars movie.

    Now they are saying she might not be dead but just knew Rey needed her support. Really stupid.

    Most of Star Wars currently is fan service. The entirety of the MCU is fan service. How do you think Disney plans to make money in the future? Nostalgia and fan service.

    This movie was just in your face about it.

    Billy Dee just rolled out of bed, put on a funky outfit and laughed the whole time.

    Ben and Rey kissing?

    Leia’slightsaber

    I will take all the fan-service I can get.

    I have a friend who shares this thought. The problem is that fan service does nothing to display themes, creativity, or a good story arc. It’s mostly just back peddling the entire industry to cheap one shots that attempt to lure viewers for their money.

    I agree that it can often do those things. And I really don't like the Rey and Ben kiss. Could have done without it.

    But there is also an aspect of "fan service" that can engage creativity and the story with the audience that's not just meant to be garbage cheap shots. This is not some garbage magna with animated people in bathing suits or a romantic novel that's just one big description of something R rated. This is Star Wars. Of course there is going to be fan service. Baby Yoda is Baby Yoda cause of fan service, and it works in so many ways outside of "give us your money." The same can be said of Rise of Skywalker. There is so much in this movie that can be called "fan service" and it works on so many levels. There will be people who don't like it and think it's cheap, but there are people like your friend and I who appreciate the efforts and time it took to think this stuff through. On the topic of this post, I absolutely love every single Jedi voice that spoke to Rey, and really appreciate that Anakin's voice spoke to her most.

    TL;DR: It's all based on your opinion. And for me and your friend, this movie and its fan service served us well.

    Isn’t Rey related to Ben in some small way? If she’s EP granddaughter, and EP made Anakin, who made Luke and Leia, Leia who then made Ben, then they are in the same family tree. I guess it’s par for the SW course. At least they didn’t go full game of thrones.

    Not anymore. The writer of the comic confirmed that their intention was not to make it seem like Sideous "fathered" Anakin. Even though that's pretty much what it looks like on the pages haha.
  • Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    The reason why the game gives Ahsoka the Jedi tag is because the version we have of her is based on the CW seasons 3-5, before she left the order, so she is still a Jedi.
  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    The reason why the game gives Ahsoka the Jedi tag is because the version we have of her is based on the CW seasons 3-5, before she left the order, so she is still a Jedi.

    Someone that is training to be something is not that thing until they finish the training. Ahsoka never completed the training so she isn’t a Jedi, in any part of her life.
  • Vendi1983 wrote: »
    Biggest Missed Opportunity in ROS

    An interesting article that doesn't just whine about fan service or Mary Sue issues.

    Definitely interesting an interesting take that I hadn't thought of before. But I'd argue that the article is missing two key things.

    - Rey's training has come from three sources: Leia, Luke, and the "old Jedi texts" which technically offer Rey nothing according to Yoda. Leia isn't really a Jedi it seems, since she stopped her training. Leia has lived a life full of hopes, dreams, trials, loss, all that jazz as a normal person. I would assume (I could definitely be wrong) that Leia is probably not reinforcing the "you can't love anyone" thought. Luke taught her that the Jedi were wrong and missed the fact that the greatest evil rose up right in front of them without realizing it until it was too late. And who knows what the texts say. So we don't really know that Rey is just going to go off and restart the whole thing over again. Hopefully we'll find out, and like the article says, it would be interesting to see the "Jedi" go a little bit different of a way.

    - It says Anakin was forced to become a Jedi. Was he? Anakin literally tells his mother that he wants to do it (granted it's a child saying that, but still). He wants to become a Jedi. Nothing "forced" outside of that. He honestly could have left at anytime. Both Dooku and Ahsoka left the Order without consequences (technically speaking). The issue is the weight of the prophecy on him and he beleiving he's the chosen one. From the article: "Anakin only ever wanted power enough to protect the ones he loved. What's so evil about that?" Its not inherently evil no; however Anakin is trying to control the future. That's a no-no no matter who you are.

    The Jedi were flawed. 100% agree with that. But TROS doesn't say that Rey is just like all the other Jedi. Just because they encourage her to continue the fight against a tyrannical slave-lord who controls people through murder and fear doesn't mean she's now just like everyone else and is going to make the exact same mistakes they all did.

    What do you think?
  • Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    The reason why the game gives Ahsoka the Jedi tag is because the version we have of her is based on the CW seasons 3-5, before she left the order, so she is still a Jedi.

    Someone that is training to be something is not that thing until they finish the training. Ahsoka never completed the training so she isn’t a Jedi, in any part of her life.

    A Padawan is not a Jedi in training, once a Jedi prospect or "youngling" is accepted by a Jedi knight as a Padawan, they become a Jedi.... The ranks of the Jedi are padawan, knight, master, Grand Master..... All four are Jedi, just like a private in the army is still a soldier....

    Again, there is also no precedence that says you have to be a Jedi to become a force ghost, or one with the force upon death..... You just can't be a dark side user as transcending the physical realm is a light side ability....
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    Difference with Luke is that he came after the order fell, so the rules were out the Windu. Asoka’s time was when the order was around, therefore, the rules apply to her, double therefore, she’s not a Jedi. Luke and Rey don’t have those rules to follow anymore since there is no Jedi order, triple therefore, they can be whatever they say they are.

    Padawan is a Jedi in training, not a Jedi, just like a doctor in training is not a doctor. By your logic, Rey ( Jedi training) should have the Jedi tag, but she doesn’t.

    Rey Padawan would have a Jedi tag. Barris was only a Padawan and has a Jedi tag. She is a Jedi as a Padawan because of what I explained above.

    Rey and Luke are never Padawans, they just become Jedi after training with the Force, and therefore aren’t Jedi until they claim that title.

    Ahsoka was a part of the Jedi order, making her a Jedi. Luke came after the order, which means the scenario and steps are different. Most of your answers are in the post you quoted.
  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    edited January 2020
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    Difference with Luke is that he came after the order fell, so the rules were out the Windu. Asoka’s time was when the order was around, therefore, the rules apply to her, double therefore, she’s not a Jedi. Luke and Rey don’t have those rules to follow anymore since there is no Jedi order, triple therefore, they can be whatever they say they are.

    Padawan is a Jedi in training, not a Jedi, just like a doctor in training is not a doctor. By your logic, Rey ( Jedi training) should have the Jedi tag, but she doesn’t.

    Rey Padawan would have a Jedi tag. Barris was only a Padawan and has a Jedi tag. She is a Jedi as a Padawan because of what I explained above.

    Rey and Luke are never Padawans, they just become Jedi after training with the Force, and therefore aren’t Jedi until they claim that title.

    Ahsoka was a part of the Jedi order, making her a Jedi. Luke came after the order, which means the scenario and steps are different. Most of your answers are in the post you quoted.

    As I said in my post, Luke and Rey don’t have to follow the Jedi rules to become a Jedi as the rules are no more since there was no order during their time. They can just say they are Jedi and no one can say anything different. I don’t believe that a padawan is a Jedi. That includes Barris and Ahsoka. I’ve stated why I believe that. A padawan is an apprentice. An apprentice is not whatever they have an apprenticeship for until they finish that apprenticeship. Someone who is apprenticing for a foreman job is NOT a foreman until they finish the training.

    You can’t use what’s in the game for your argument. Old Ben and hermit Yoda have the Jedi tag despite becoming hermits and abandoning the Jedi way. Fulcrum Ahsoka, Dooku, Vader and Fallen Basty should have the Jedi tag by the games logic.
  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    Difference with Luke is that he came after the order fell, so the rules were out the Windu. Asoka’s time was when the order was around, therefore, the rules apply to her, double therefore, she’s not a Jedi. Luke and Rey don’t have those rules to follow anymore since there is no Jedi order, triple therefore, they can be whatever they say they are.

    Padawan is a Jedi in training, not a Jedi, just like a doctor in training is not a doctor. By your logic, Rey ( Jedi training) should have the Jedi tag, but she doesn’t.

    Rey Padawan would have a Jedi tag. Barris was only a Padawan and has a Jedi tag. She is a Jedi as a Padawan because of what I explained above.

    Rey and Luke are never Padawans, they just become Jedi after training with the Force, and therefore aren’t Jedi until they claim that title.

    Ahsoka was a part of the Jedi order, making her a Jedi. Luke came after the order, which means the scenario and steps are different. Most of your answers are in the post you quoted.

    You just repeated what I said. I don’t believe that padawans are Jedi. They are apprentices and anyone who is an apprentice is not a “ fill in the blank” until they complete training.

    You can’t use the game for your argument. Old Ben and hermit Yoda have the Jedi tag after they abandoned the Jedi way. By the games logic, Vader, Fallen Basty, Dooku, Fulcrum and Darth Revan would also need the Jedi tag as well. So you see that the games logic is faulty. A padawan is not a Jedi, but a Jedi in training.
  • The Jedi are like an organization. So whether you're the president/grandmaster, committee members/council dudes or just the ordinary members or beginner members (knights/padawans), you're still Jedi. That's how I see it. Once you leave the organization, you're no longer a member. Ahsoka left the Jedi Order, which is why Fulcrum doesn't have the Jedi tag. Hermit Yoda and Old Ben were remnants of the Order.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    A Jedi Padawan is a Jedi, just not a Jedi Knight or Master.
    Its not the same thing as a doctor or a lawyer at all.

    Particularly as the Jedi Order grew more and more desperate - dating back to the clone wars, Jedi were dying off all too quickly and the Republic were in need of more knights. They selected Padawans that had shown growth and maturity - they would forego the usual "Jedi Trials" and promote them to Knight - this was exactly how Anakin was promoted to Jedi Knight.

    Yoda also said to Luke that facing Vader and defeating the sith was his "trial" after which he would be a Jedi Knight.

    The same could be said for Rey - she destroyed Palpatine and the Sith and embodied the Jedi.
  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    A Jedi Padawan is a Jedi, just not a Jedi Knight or Master.
    Its not the same thing as a doctor or a lawyer at all.

    Particularly as the Jedi Order grew more and more desperate - dating back to the clone wars, Jedi were dying off all too quickly and the Republic were in need of more knights. They selected Padawans that had shown growth and maturity - they would forego the usual "Jedi Trials" and promote them to Knight - this was exactly how Anakin was promoted to Jedi Knight.

    Yoda also said to Luke that facing Vader and defeating the sith was his "trial" after which he would be a Jedi Knight.

    The same could be said for Rey - she destroyed Palpatine and the Sith and embodied the Jedi.

    We will just agree to disagree. Also, the rules Jedi order rules don’t apply if there is no jedi order, so Luke and Rey can be anything they think they are.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    A Jedi Padawan is a Jedi, just not a Jedi Knight or Master.
    Its not the same thing as a doctor or a lawyer at all.

    Particularly as the Jedi Order grew more and more desperate - dating back to the clone wars, Jedi were dying off all too quickly and the Republic were in need of more knights. They selected Padawans that had shown growth and maturity - they would forego the usual "Jedi Trials" and promote them to Knight - this was exactly how Anakin was promoted to Jedi Knight.

    Yoda also said to Luke that facing Vader and defeating the sith was his "trial" after which he would be a Jedi Knight.

    The same could be said for Rey - she destroyed Palpatine and the Sith and embodied the Jedi.

    We will just agree to disagree. Also, the rules Jedi order rules don’t apply if there is no jedi order, so Luke and Rey can be anything they think they are.

    Not really, take something like the Walking Dead for example, if there is someone with medical training, they could become the "doctor" for the survivors or settlement - doesn't mean that person actually went through med school does it?

    Rey recognizes herself as a Jedi and embodied all the passed Jedi in her, she defeated the darkside and destroyed the sith and saved the galaxy - if that doesn't make her a Jedi then...?
  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    A Jedi Padawan is a Jedi, just not a Jedi Knight or Master.
    Its not the same thing as a doctor or a lawyer at all.

    Particularly as the Jedi Order grew more and more desperate - dating back to the clone wars, Jedi were dying off all too quickly and the Republic were in need of more knights. They selected Padawans that had shown growth and maturity - they would forego the usual "Jedi Trials" and promote them to Knight - this was exactly how Anakin was promoted to Jedi Knight.

    Yoda also said to Luke that facing Vader and defeating the sith was his "trial" after which he would be a Jedi Knight.

    The same could be said for Rey - she destroyed Palpatine and the Sith and embodied the Jedi.

    We will just agree to disagree. Also, the rules Jedi order rules don’t apply if there is no jedi order, so Luke and Rey can be anything they think they are.

    Not really, take something like the Walking Dead for example, if there is someone with medical training, they could become the "doctor" for the survivors or settlement - doesn't mean that person actually went through med school does it?

    Rey recognizes herself as a Jedi and embodied all the passed Jedi in her, she defeated the darkside and destroyed the sith and saved the galaxy - if that doesn't make her a Jedi then...?

    In a walking dead example, all the medical schools are gone, like the Jedi order, so anyone can claim the title doctor because there is no established program to become a doctor regardless of training. Just like Rey and Luke can claim to be a Jedi as there is no rules to say otherwise. Is Finn a Jedi? He’s force sensitive, help kill the Sith and save the galaxy. Answer is sure, why not, because there is not established guidelines to become a Jedi during their time.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    Wookiepedia says that Padawan is a “Jedi Rank. I think that is pretty clear. It also says that becoming a Knight is a promotion, which implies that you are already a part of it.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    A Jedi Padawan is a Jedi, just not a Jedi Knight or Master.
    Its not the same thing as a doctor or a lawyer at all.

    Particularly as the Jedi Order grew more and more desperate - dating back to the clone wars, Jedi were dying off all too quickly and the Republic were in need of more knights. They selected Padawans that had shown growth and maturity - they would forego the usual "Jedi Trials" and promote them to Knight - this was exactly how Anakin was promoted to Jedi Knight.

    Yoda also said to Luke that facing Vader and defeating the sith was his "trial" after which he would be a Jedi Knight.

    The same could be said for Rey - she destroyed Palpatine and the Sith and embodied the Jedi.

    We will just agree to disagree. Also, the rules Jedi order rules don’t apply if there is no jedi order, so Luke and Rey can be anything they think they are.

    Not really, take something like the Walking Dead for example, if there is someone with medical training, they could become the "doctor" for the survivors or settlement - doesn't mean that person actually went through med school does it?

    Rey recognizes herself as a Jedi and embodied all the passed Jedi in her, she defeated the darkside and destroyed the sith and saved the galaxy - if that doesn't make her a Jedi then...?

    In a walking dead example, all the medical schools are gone, like the Jedi order, so anyone can claim the title doctor because there is no established program to become a doctor regardless of training. Just like Rey and Luke can claim to be a Jedi as there is no rules to say otherwise. Is Finn a Jedi? He’s force sensitive, help kill the Sith and save the galaxy. Answer is sure, why not, because there is not established guidelines to become a Jedi during their time.

    The rules still exist. Yoda and Obi-Wan are still ghosts that can teach. Yoda legitimately trained Luke, as he trained all younglings. Luke trained Rey. There are still guidelines.
  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    edited January 2020
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    A Jedi Padawan is a Jedi, just not a Jedi Knight or Master.
    Its not the same thing as a doctor or a lawyer at all.

    Particularly as the Jedi Order grew more and more desperate - dating back to the clone wars, Jedi were dying off all too quickly and the Republic were in need of more knights. They selected Padawans that had shown growth and maturity - they would forego the usual "Jedi Trials" and promote them to Knight - this was exactly how Anakin was promoted to Jedi Knight.

    Yoda also said to Luke that facing Vader and defeating the sith was his "trial" after which he would be a Jedi Knight.

    The same could be said for Rey - she destroyed Palpatine and the Sith and embodied the Jedi.

    We will just agree to disagree. Also, the rules Jedi order rules don’t apply if there is no jedi order, so Luke and Rey can be anything they think they are.

    Not really, take something like the Walking Dead for example, if there is someone with medical training, they could become the "doctor" for the survivors or settlement - doesn't mean that person actually went through med school does it?

    Rey recognizes herself as a Jedi and embodied all the passed Jedi in her, she defeated the darkside and destroyed the sith and saved the galaxy - if that doesn't make her a Jedi then...?

    In a walking dead example, all the medical schools are gone, like the Jedi order, so anyone can claim the title doctor because there is no established program to become a doctor regardless of training. Just like Rey and Luke can claim to be a Jedi as there is no rules to say otherwise. Is Finn a Jedi? He’s force sensitive, help kill the Sith and save the galaxy. Answer is sure, why not, because there is not established guidelines to become a Jedi during their time.

    The rules still exist. Yoda and Obi-Wan are still ghosts that can teach. Yoda legitimately trained Luke, as he trained all younglings. Luke trained Rey. There are still guidelines.

    The rules don’t exist. The rules are whatever Yoda wanted to do. So is Rey a knight or master, or grand master or sentinel or counselor or beast master or ace or healer, you get the idea. All those ranks died with the order. Is Kylo now a Jedi? He’s a force user who battled the Sith and saved the galaxy.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    A Jedi Padawan is a Jedi, just not a Jedi Knight or Master.
    Its not the same thing as a doctor or a lawyer at all.

    Particularly as the Jedi Order grew more and more desperate - dating back to the clone wars, Jedi were dying off all too quickly and the Republic were in need of more knights. They selected Padawans that had shown growth and maturity - they would forego the usual "Jedi Trials" and promote them to Knight - this was exactly how Anakin was promoted to Jedi Knight.

    Yoda also said to Luke that facing Vader and defeating the sith was his "trial" after which he would be a Jedi Knight.

    The same could be said for Rey - she destroyed Palpatine and the Sith and embodied the Jedi.

    We will just agree to disagree. Also, the rules Jedi order rules don’t apply if there is no jedi order, so Luke and Rey can be anything they think they are.

    Not really, take something like the Walking Dead for example, if there is someone with medical training, they could become the "doctor" for the survivors or settlement - doesn't mean that person actually went through med school does it?

    Rey recognizes herself as a Jedi and embodied all the passed Jedi in her, she defeated the darkside and destroyed the sith and saved the galaxy - if that doesn't make her a Jedi then...?

    In a walking dead example, all the medical schools are gone, like the Jedi order, so anyone can claim the title doctor because there is no established program to become a doctor regardless of training. Just like Rey and Luke can claim to be a Jedi as there is no rules to say otherwise. Is Finn a Jedi? He’s force sensitive, help kill the Sith and save the galaxy. Answer is sure, why not, because there is not established guidelines to become a Jedi during their time.

    The rules still exist. Yoda and Obi-Wan are still ghosts that can teach. Yoda legitimately trained Luke, as he trained all younglings. Luke trained Rey. There are still guidelines.

    The rules don’t exist. The rules are whatever Yoda wanted to do. So is Rey a knight or master, or grand master or sentinel or counselor or beast master or ace or healer, you get the idea. All those ranks died with the order. Is Ben Solo now a Jedi? He’s a force user who battled the Sith and saved the galaxy.

    This argument makes no sense. If that were the case, then Yoda would have been able to make up whatever qualifications for the Jedi while he was Grand Master. Obviously rules change, but Yoda was in charge, and clearly taught the traditional Jedi rules and ideals to Luke.

    Also the Order hasn’t technically died yet in Star Wars. It’s decreased it’s numbers to one, but it’s not gone yet.

    This doesn’t matter anyway, it’s just an avenue that you can attempt to win, and the real point has already been addressed with evidence. Padawan is a Jedi rank.
  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    A Jedi Padawan is a Jedi, just not a Jedi Knight or Master.
    Its not the same thing as a doctor or a lawyer at all.

    Particularly as the Jedi Order grew more and more desperate - dating back to the clone wars, Jedi were dying off all too quickly and the Republic were in need of more knights. They selected Padawans that had shown growth and maturity - they would forego the usual "Jedi Trials" and promote them to Knight - this was exactly how Anakin was promoted to Jedi Knight.

    Yoda also said to Luke that facing Vader and defeating the sith was his "trial" after which he would be a Jedi Knight.

    The same could be said for Rey - she destroyed Palpatine and the Sith and embodied the Jedi.

    We will just agree to disagree. Also, the rules Jedi order rules don’t apply if there is no jedi order, so Luke and Rey can be anything they think they are.

    Not really, take something like the Walking Dead for example, if there is someone with medical training, they could become the "doctor" for the survivors or settlement - doesn't mean that person actually went through med school does it?

    Rey recognizes herself as a Jedi and embodied all the passed Jedi in her, she defeated the darkside and destroyed the sith and saved the galaxy - if that doesn't make her a Jedi then...?

    In a walking dead example, all the medical schools are gone, like the Jedi order, so anyone can claim the title doctor because there is no established program to become a doctor regardless of training. Just like Rey and Luke can claim to be a Jedi as there is no rules to say otherwise. Is Finn a Jedi? He’s force sensitive, help kill the Sith and save the galaxy. Answer is sure, why not, because there is not established guidelines to become a Jedi during their time.

    The rules still exist. Yoda and Obi-Wan are still ghosts that can teach. Yoda legitimately trained Luke, as he trained all younglings. Luke trained Rey. There are still guidelines.

    The rules don’t exist. The rules are whatever Yoda wanted to do. So is Rey a knight or master, or grand master or sentinel or counselor or beast master or ace or healer, you get the idea. All those ranks died with the order. Is Ben Solo now a Jedi? He’s a force user who battled the Sith and saved the galaxy.

    This argument makes no sense. If that were the case, then Yoda would have been able to make up whatever qualifications for the Jedi while he was Grand Master. Obviously rules change, but Yoda was in charge, and clearly taught the traditional Jedi rules and ideals to Luke.

    Also the Order hasn’t technically died yet in Star Wars. It’s decreased it’s numbers to one, but it’s not gone yet.

    This doesn’t matter anyway, it’s just an avenue that you can attempt to win, and the real point has already been addressed with evidence. Padawan is a Jedi rank.

    So who was the Jedi order after Yoda died and Luke hermit’d himself? The order died with order 66. Is a youngling a Jedi? It’s a Jedi rank.
  • Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    Difference with Luke is that he came after the order fell, so the rules were out the Windu. Asoka’s time was when the order was around, therefore, the rules apply to her, double therefore, she’s not a Jedi. Luke and Rey don’t have those rules to follow anymore since there is no Jedi order, triple therefore, they can be whatever they say they are.

    Padawan is a Jedi in training, not a Jedi, just like a doctor in training is not a doctor. By your logic, Rey ( Jedi training) should have the Jedi tag, but she doesn’t.

    Rey Padawan would have a Jedi tag. Barris was only a Padawan and has a Jedi tag. She is a Jedi as a Padawan because of what I explained above.

    Rey and Luke are never Padawans, they just become Jedi after training with the Force, and therefore aren’t Jedi until they claim that title.

    Ahsoka was a part of the Jedi order, making her a Jedi. Luke came after the order, which means the scenario and steps are different. Most of your answers are in the post you quoted.

    You just repeated what I said. I don’t believe that padawans are Jedi. They are apprentices and anyone who is an apprentice is not a “ fill in the blank” until they complete training.

    You can’t use the game for your argument. Old Ben and hermit Yoda have the Jedi tag after they abandoned the Jedi way. By the games logic, Vader, Fallen Basty, Dooku, Fulcrum and Darth Revan would also need the Jedi tag as well. So you see that the games logic is faulty. A padawan is not a Jedi, but a Jedi in training.

    Disagree.... That doesn't parallel anything in "real life"......
  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    Difference with Luke is that he came after the order fell, so the rules were out the Windu. Asoka’s time was when the order was around, therefore, the rules apply to her, double therefore, she’s not a Jedi. Luke and Rey don’t have those rules to follow anymore since there is no Jedi order, triple therefore, they can be whatever they say they are.

    Padawan is a Jedi in training, not a Jedi, just like a doctor in training is not a doctor. By your logic, Rey ( Jedi training) should have the Jedi tag, but she doesn’t.

    Rey Padawan would have a Jedi tag. Barris was only a Padawan and has a Jedi tag. She is a Jedi as a Padawan because of what I explained above.

    Rey and Luke are never Padawans, they just become Jedi after training with the Force, and therefore aren’t Jedi until they claim that title.

    Ahsoka was a part of the Jedi order, making her a Jedi. Luke came after the order, which means the scenario and steps are different. Most of your answers are in the post you quoted.

    You just repeated what I said. I don’t believe that padawans are Jedi. They are apprentices and anyone who is an apprentice is not a “ fill in the blank” until they complete training.

    You can’t use the game for your argument. Old Ben and hermit Yoda have the Jedi tag after they abandoned the Jedi way. By the games logic, Vader, Fallen Basty, Dooku, Fulcrum and Darth Revan would also need the Jedi tag as well. So you see that the games logic is faulty. A padawan is not a Jedi, but a Jedi in training.

    Disagree.... That doesn't parallel anything in "real life"......

    So the word apprentice means different things in Basic then it does in English?
  • Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    Difference with Luke is that he came after the order fell, so the rules were out the Windu. Asoka’s time was when the order was around, therefore, the rules apply to her, double therefore, she’s not a Jedi. Luke and Rey don’t have those rules to follow anymore since there is no Jedi order, triple therefore, they can be whatever they say they are.

    Padawan is a Jedi in training, not a Jedi, just like a doctor in training is not a doctor. By your logic, Rey ( Jedi training) should have the Jedi tag, but she doesn’t.

    Rey Padawan would have a Jedi tag. Barris was only a Padawan and has a Jedi tag. She is a Jedi as a Padawan because of what I explained above.

    Rey and Luke are never Padawans, they just become Jedi after training with the Force, and therefore aren’t Jedi until they claim that title.

    Ahsoka was a part of the Jedi order, making her a Jedi. Luke came after the order, which means the scenario and steps are different. Most of your answers are in the post you quoted.

    You just repeated what I said. I don’t believe that padawans are Jedi. They are apprentices and anyone who is an apprentice is not a “ fill in the blank” until they complete training.

    You can’t use the game for your argument. Old Ben and hermit Yoda have the Jedi tag after they abandoned the Jedi way. By the games logic, Vader, Fallen Basty, Dooku, Fulcrum and Darth Revan would also need the Jedi tag as well. So you see that the games logic is faulty. A padawan is not a Jedi, but a Jedi in training.

    Disagree.... That doesn't parallel anything in "real life"......

    So the word apprentice means different things in Basic then it does in English?

    But they do not use the word apprentice as a title in the Jedi order, so its definition is irrelevant to a debate about a Youngling/Padawan/Knight/Master being called a Jedi. The ranks are Youngling, Padawan, Knight, Master, so yes, to answer an earlier question that younglings are Jedi.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    Difference with Luke is that he came after the order fell, so the rules were out the Windu. Asoka’s time was when the order was around, therefore, the rules apply to her, double therefore, she’s not a Jedi. Luke and Rey don’t have those rules to follow anymore since there is no Jedi order, triple therefore, they can be whatever they say they are.

    Padawan is a Jedi in training, not a Jedi, just like a doctor in training is not a doctor. By your logic, Rey ( Jedi training) should have the Jedi tag, but she doesn’t.

    Rey Padawan would have a Jedi tag. Barris was only a Padawan and has a Jedi tag. She is a Jedi as a Padawan because of what I explained above.

    Rey and Luke are never Padawans, they just become Jedi after training with the Force, and therefore aren’t Jedi until they claim that title.

    Ahsoka was a part of the Jedi order, making her a Jedi. Luke came after the order, which means the scenario and steps are different. Most of your answers are in the post you quoted.

    You just repeated what I said. I don’t believe that padawans are Jedi. They are apprentices and anyone who is an apprentice is not a “ fill in the blank” until they complete training.

    You can’t use the game for your argument. Old Ben and hermit Yoda have the Jedi tag after they abandoned the Jedi way. By the games logic, Vader, Fallen Basty, Dooku, Fulcrum and Darth Revan would also need the Jedi tag as well. So you see that the games logic is faulty. A padawan is not a Jedi, but a Jedi in training.

    Disagree.... That doesn't parallel anything in "real life"......

    So the word apprentice means different things in Basic then it does in English?

    But they do not use the word apprentice as a title in the Jedi order, so its definition is irrelevant to a debate about a Youngling/Padawan/Knight/Master being called a Jedi. The ranks are Youngling, Padawan, Knight, Master, so yes, to answer an earlier question that younglings are Jedi.

    From wookiepedia: A Padawan, Padawan learner, Jedi Apprentice in Basic, or Jedi in Training, referred to a Force-sensitive adolescent who had begun one-on-one instruction with a Jedi Knight or Master outside the Jedi academy.
  • Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    Difference with Luke is that he came after the order fell, so the rules were out the Windu. Asoka’s time was when the order was around, therefore, the rules apply to her, double therefore, she’s not a Jedi. Luke and Rey don’t have those rules to follow anymore since there is no Jedi order, triple therefore, they can be whatever they say they are.

    Padawan is a Jedi in training, not a Jedi, just like a doctor in training is not a doctor. By your logic, Rey ( Jedi training) should have the Jedi tag, but she doesn’t.

    Rey Padawan would have a Jedi tag. Barris was only a Padawan and has a Jedi tag. She is a Jedi as a Padawan because of what I explained above.

    Rey and Luke are never Padawans, they just become Jedi after training with the Force, and therefore aren’t Jedi until they claim that title.

    Ahsoka was a part of the Jedi order, making her a Jedi. Luke came after the order, which means the scenario and steps are different. Most of your answers are in the post you quoted.

    You just repeated what I said. I don’t believe that padawans are Jedi. They are apprentices and anyone who is an apprentice is not a “ fill in the blank” until they complete training.

    You can’t use the game for your argument. Old Ben and hermit Yoda have the Jedi tag after they abandoned the Jedi way. By the games logic, Vader, Fallen Basty, Dooku, Fulcrum and Darth Revan would also need the Jedi tag as well. So you see that the games logic is faulty. A padawan is not a Jedi, but a Jedi in training.

    Disagree.... That doesn't parallel anything in "real life"......

    So the word apprentice means different things in Basic then it does in English?

    But they do not use the word apprentice as a title in the Jedi order, so its definition is irrelevant to a debate about a Youngling/Padawan/Knight/Master being called a Jedi. The ranks are Youngling, Padawan, Knight, Master, so yes, to answer an earlier question that younglings are Jedi.

    From wookiepedia: A Padawan, Padawan learner, Jedi Apprentice in Basic, or Jedi in Training, referred to a Force-sensitive adolescent who had begun one-on-one instruction with a Jedi Knight or Master outside the Jedi academy.

    So you are quoting an article that says Padawans and younglings are jedi, but dont think it is accurate? 😂😂😂
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    Difference with Luke is that he came after the order fell, so the rules were out the Windu. Asoka’s time was when the order was around, therefore, the rules apply to her, double therefore, she’s not a Jedi. Luke and Rey don’t have those rules to follow anymore since there is no Jedi order, triple therefore, they can be whatever they say they are.

    Padawan is a Jedi in training, not a Jedi, just like a doctor in training is not a doctor. By your logic, Rey ( Jedi training) should have the Jedi tag, but she doesn’t.

    Rey Padawan would have a Jedi tag. Barris was only a Padawan and has a Jedi tag. She is a Jedi as a Padawan because of what I explained above.

    Rey and Luke are never Padawans, they just become Jedi after training with the Force, and therefore aren’t Jedi until they claim that title.

    Ahsoka was a part of the Jedi order, making her a Jedi. Luke came after the order, which means the scenario and steps are different. Most of your answers are in the post you quoted.

    You just repeated what I said. I don’t believe that padawans are Jedi. They are apprentices and anyone who is an apprentice is not a “ fill in the blank” until they complete training.

    You can’t use the game for your argument. Old Ben and hermit Yoda have the Jedi tag after they abandoned the Jedi way. By the games logic, Vader, Fallen Basty, Dooku, Fulcrum and Darth Revan would also need the Jedi tag as well. So you see that the games logic is faulty. A padawan is not a Jedi, but a Jedi in training.

    Disagree.... That doesn't parallel anything in "real life"......

    So the word apprentice means different things in Basic then it does in English?

    But they do not use the word apprentice as a title in the Jedi order, so its definition is irrelevant to a debate about a Youngling/Padawan/Knight/Master being called a Jedi. The ranks are Youngling, Padawan, Knight, Master, so yes, to answer an earlier question that younglings are Jedi.

    From wookiepedia: A Padawan, Padawan learner, Jedi Apprentice in Basic, or Jedi in Training, referred to a Force-sensitive adolescent who had begun one-on-one instruction with a Jedi Knight or Master outside the Jedi academy.

    So you are quoting an article that says Padawans and younglings are jedi, but dont think it is accurate? 😂😂😂

    Not at all, my point is the just because it says Jedi padawan doesn’t make them a Jedi anymore then being an electrician apprentice makes one an electrician.
  • Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    Difference with Luke is that he came after the order fell, so the rules were out the Windu. Asoka’s time was when the order was around, therefore, the rules apply to her, double therefore, she’s not a Jedi. Luke and Rey don’t have those rules to follow anymore since there is no Jedi order, triple therefore, they can be whatever they say they are.

    Padawan is a Jedi in training, not a Jedi, just like a doctor in training is not a doctor. By your logic, Rey ( Jedi training) should have the Jedi tag, but she doesn’t.

    Rey Padawan would have a Jedi tag. Barris was only a Padawan and has a Jedi tag. She is a Jedi as a Padawan because of what I explained above.

    Rey and Luke are never Padawans, they just become Jedi after training with the Force, and therefore aren’t Jedi until they claim that title.

    Ahsoka was a part of the Jedi order, making her a Jedi. Luke came after the order, which means the scenario and steps are different. Most of your answers are in the post you quoted.

    You just repeated what I said. I don’t believe that padawans are Jedi. They are apprentices and anyone who is an apprentice is not a “ fill in the blank” until they complete training.

    You can’t use the game for your argument. Old Ben and hermit Yoda have the Jedi tag after they abandoned the Jedi way. By the games logic, Vader, Fallen Basty, Dooku, Fulcrum and Darth Revan would also need the Jedi tag as well. So you see that the games logic is faulty. A padawan is not a Jedi, but a Jedi in training.

    Disagree.... That doesn't parallel anything in "real life"......

    So the word apprentice means different things in Basic then it does in English?

    But they do not use the word apprentice as a title in the Jedi order, so its definition is irrelevant to a debate about a Youngling/Padawan/Knight/Master being called a Jedi. The ranks are Youngling, Padawan, Knight, Master, so yes, to answer an earlier question that younglings are Jedi.

    From wookiepedia: A Padawan, Padawan learner, Jedi Apprentice in Basic, or Jedi in Training, referred to a Force-sensitive adolescent who had begun one-on-one instruction with a Jedi Knight or Master outside the Jedi academy.

    So you are quoting an article that says Padawans and younglings are jedi, but dont think it is accurate? 😂😂😂

    Not at all, my point is the just because it says Jedi padawan doesn’t make them a Jedi anymore then being an electrician apprentice makes one an electrician.

    They belong to the jedi order, making them jedi. I dont know why you keep comparing it to an organization with different structure, but it is more like a military. A Private is still a soldier, that is their rank in the system, just like a general is still a soldier. Being a jedi is not a binary master/apprentice system, it has multiple levels you go through.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Iy4oy4s
    2668 posts Member
    edited January 2020
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Vader was a Jedi before he went dark...

    Wait, Ashoka and lumi spoke to Rey?

    True, and ahsoka was a Jedi before she left the order.... That was pretty much my point...

    And yes, OP's post is correct in listing the Jedi that spoke to rey, I believe ayyla securra was one as well....

    Asoka was not a Jedi. She didn’t get passed the padawan stage and left the order, so close but no cigar.

    Ok, we got a badass here..... A Padawan Jedi is still a Jedi.....

    A lawyer is not a lawyer until they finish training and pass a test . A doctor is not a doctor until they finish training and pass a test. Same concept applies. She was training to be a Jedi, however, didn’t complete the training and never took the trials, therefore, not a Jedi. Not a basass, just pointing out fact.

    Then why does the game give her the Jedi tag?

    Jedi Padawan
    Jedi Knight
    Jedi Master

    All still members of the Jedi. Before you ask, here’s the difference with Luke-
    Luke was trained by Ben and Yoda to use the force, but was never a true “Padawan”
    After Empire he worked on his training, and then became a Jedi (straight to Knight, no formal Padawan training)
    For an even deeper dive, look at some Star Wars canon sites about the Jedi and training. It’s to my knowledge that they train (such as younglings under master Yoda) until they become a Padawan, which is Jedi status, but working with a master on missions in order to hone your skills and rank up to Knight.

    Difference with Luke is that he came after the order fell, so the rules were out the Windu. Asoka’s time was when the order was around, therefore, the rules apply to her, double therefore, she’s not a Jedi. Luke and Rey don’t have those rules to follow anymore since there is no Jedi order, triple therefore, they can be whatever they say they are.

    Padawan is a Jedi in training, not a Jedi, just like a doctor in training is not a doctor. By your logic, Rey ( Jedi training) should have the Jedi tag, but she doesn’t.

    Rey Padawan would have a Jedi tag. Barris was only a Padawan and has a Jedi tag. She is a Jedi as a Padawan because of what I explained above.

    Rey and Luke are never Padawans, they just become Jedi after training with the Force, and therefore aren’t Jedi until they claim that title.

    Ahsoka was a part of the Jedi order, making her a Jedi. Luke came after the order, which means the scenario and steps are different. Most of your answers are in the post you quoted.

    You just repeated what I said. I don’t believe that padawans are Jedi. They are apprentices and anyone who is an apprentice is not a “ fill in the blank” until they complete training.

    You can’t use the game for your argument. Old Ben and hermit Yoda have the Jedi tag after they abandoned the Jedi way. By the games logic, Vader, Fallen Basty, Dooku, Fulcrum and Darth Revan would also need the Jedi tag as well. So you see that the games logic is faulty. A padawan is not a Jedi, but a Jedi in training.

    Disagree.... That doesn't parallel anything in "real life"......

    So the word apprentice means different things in Basic then it does in English?

    But they do not use the word apprentice as a title in the Jedi order, so its definition is irrelevant to a debate about a Youngling/Padawan/Knight/Master being called a Jedi. The ranks are Youngling, Padawan, Knight, Master, so yes, to answer an earlier question that younglings are Jedi.

    From wookiepedia: A Padawan, Padawan learner, Jedi Apprentice in Basic, or Jedi in Training, referred to a Force-sensitive adolescent who had begun one-on-one instruction with a Jedi Knight or Master outside the Jedi academy.

    So you are quoting an article that says Padawans and younglings are jedi, but dont think it is accurate? 😂😂😂

    Not at all, my point is the just because it says Jedi padawan doesn’t make them a Jedi anymore then being an electrician apprentice makes one an electrician.

    They belong to the jedi order, making them jedi. I dont know why you keep comparing it to an organization with different structure, but it is more like a military. A Private is still a soldier, that is their rank in the system, just like a general is still a soldier. Being a jedi is not a binary master/apprentice system, it has multiple levels you go through.

    The Navy uses the term Petty Officer yet they are enlisted and not, in fact, Officers. Just because the name is there doesn’t give the title.

    Why is the order not like an apprenticeship system??

    Apprenticeship has different levels as you go up, Apprentice, journeyman, master...almost like the Jedi. Padawan, knight, master. Interesting how that fits.
  • Gifafi
    5895 posts Member
    Kylo is a sith right? Snoke was just ep so shouldn’t we get a sith tag for kylo?
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
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