What Felt Wrong with Ep9 Rise of Skywalker [SPOILERS AHEAD]

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Hello all,
I would like to discuss how the movie could have turned and what decisions made the movie bad and what could have been done to make it better. I will try to touch various scenes and topics so please feel free to comment.

-Personally, with many other viewers, I wholeheartedly agree that it butchered the prophecy and development of the Chosen One arc. If Anakin had a more direct contribution to Palpatine's demise in Ep9 (explained below), it would have been ok though.

- For the entire duration of the film, I was excited and wondered when Anakin Skywalker would come to the screen. Possible points were when Luke arrived as a force ghost, Leia projected Han's image to talk to Kylo through the force and when both Rey and Kylo were seemingly overwhelmed by Palpatine. I even though he would appear by Rey's side and assist her when I started to hear Anakin's voice. Didn't happen.

- Rey's unbelievably good force/healing abillities. - If we remember Episode 3, Vader betrays the Jedi solely due to the fact that he wants to revive/heal Padme if she dies (duh). I swear if this was possible, Yoda who had lived 900 years would have definitely learned to revive/heal (not superhero Rey). Besides, the way that the force abillity worked, it definitely wouldn't be forbidden to the Jedi code. (Nothing sinister or morally wrong about it). -> Does not make ANY sense.

- Kylo should have spoken to Vader (or Anakin, or both). Though it was grimly mentioned that Palps was basically giving him false promises "show me again the Darkness blah blah", As the true Last Skywalker, Kylo should have gotten insight from his grandfather. Maybe he could have met Vader firstly but the vision would change to Anakin and Kylo finally understands what redemption is etc. An emotional piece that would further develop his character.

-The Rey vs Palpatine battle could have been played out differently and a bit longer. Was super ironic that Palpatine was defeated yet again the same way. Not very original innit? (Mace vs Palp Ep.3)

-Kylo's death seemed out of place and was just forced there as a way to bring Mary back to life. I would have preferred if he lived on and Rey was the one to do the honorable sacrifice.

-The Reylo kiss felt a little awkward as if it was between 2 cousins that didn't know they were related at that time. (would have been if it was just an embrace)

All in all, no hate was (or is supposed to be) given to the actors as they all tried hard and did an amazing job. Poor direction and writing in addition to Disney's choking on JJ are what made the movie bad.
Was the movie good? -Yes and no. Seeing what Ep 7 & 8 did, it really worked hard to correct various mistakes so yes. But from a general story/novel perspective I would say it was also greatly flawed (as stated above)

Replies

  • AntiFunn wrote: »
    Hello all,
    - Rey's unbelievably good force/healing abillities. - If we remember Episode 3, Vader betrays the Jedi solely due to the fact that he wants to revive/heal Padme if she dies (duh). I swear if this was possible, Yoda who had lived 900 years would have definitely learned to revive/heal (not superhero Rey). Besides, the way that the force abillity worked, it definitely wouldn't be forbidden to the Jedi code. (Nothing sinister or morally wrong about it). -> Does not make ANY sense.

    Pesonally, I disagree that reviving would be acceptable with the Jedi ideology. Death is a natural part of life, and the Jedi wouldn't dare mess with that. I bet it is what Palps was referring to when he said "The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural"

    - Kylo should have spoken to Vader (or Anakin, or both). Though it was grimly mentioned that Palps was basically giving him false promises "show me again the Darkness blah blah", As the true Last Skywalker, Kylo should have gotten insight from his grandfather. Maybe he could have met Vader firstly but the vision would change to Anakin and Kylo finally understands what redemption is etc. An emotional piece that would further develop his character.

    Kylo was only talking to Palps. Mostly because Vader wasn't a force ghost and Anakin was? Maybe Ani should've been there.

    -The Rey vs Palpatine battle could have been played out differently and a bit longer. Was super ironic that Palpatine was defeated yet again the same way. Not very original innit? (Mace vs Palp Ep.3)

    Much like The Force Awakens...

    -The Reylo kiss felt a little awkward as if it was between 2 cousins that didn't know they were related at that time. (would have been if it was just an embrace)

    Yeah, that was on the same level as Luke and Leia... Also wonder what Han thought of when he found out they were siblings.

    All in all, no hate was (or is supposed to be) given to the actors as they all tried hard and did an amazing job. Poor direction and writing in addition to Disney's choking on JJ are what made the movie bad.
    Was the movie good? -Yes and no. Seeing what Ep 7 & 8 did, it really worked hard to correct various mistakes so yes. But from a general story/novel perspective I would say it was also greatly flawed (as stated above)

    I really couldn't stand FA and LJ and though both movies, well, suked. ROS wasn't actually that bad, IMHO. It paid lip service to the fans, had some predictable moments, but it was worth the watch. I can't really say the same thing about the other 2.
  • Gifafi
    4988 posts Member
    AntiFunn wrote: »
    Hello all,
    I would like to discuss how the movie could have turned and what decisions made the movie bad and what could have been done to make it better. I will try to touch various scenes and topics so please feel free to comment.

    -Personally, with many other viewers, I wholeheartedly agree that it butchered the prophecy and development of the Chosen One arc. If Anakin had a more direct contribution to Palpatine's demise in Ep9 (explained below), it would have been ok though.

    - For the entire duration of the film, I was excited and wondered when Anakin Skywalker would come to the screen. Possible points were when Luke arrived as a force ghost, Leia projected Han's image to talk to Kylo through the force and when both Rey and Kylo were seemingly overwhelmed by Palpatine. I even though he would appear by Rey's side and assist her when I started to hear Anakin's voice. Didn't happen.

    - Rey's unbelievably good force/healing abillities. - If we remember Episode 3, Vader betrays the Jedi solely due to the fact that he wants to revive/heal Padme if she dies (duh). I swear if this was possible, Yoda who had lived 900 years would have definitely learned to revive/heal (not superhero Rey). Besides, the way that the force abillity worked, it definitely wouldn't be forbidden to the Jedi code. (Nothing sinister or morally wrong about it). -> Does not make ANY sense.

    - Kylo should have spoken to Vader (or Anakin, or both). Though it was grimly mentioned that Palps was basically giving him false promises "show me again the Darkness blah blah", As the true Last Skywalker, Kylo should have gotten insight from his grandfather. Maybe he could have met Vader firstly but the vision would change to Anakin and Kylo finally understands what redemption is etc. An emotional piece that would further develop his character.

    -The Rey vs Palpatine battle could have been played out differently and a bit longer. Was super ironic that Palpatine was defeated yet again the same way. Not very original innit? (Mace vs Palp Ep.3)

    -Kylo's death seemed out of place and was just forced there as a way to bring Mary back to life. I would have preferred if he lived on and Rey was the one to do the honorable sacrifice.

    -The Reylo kiss felt a little awkward as if it was between 2 cousins that didn't know they were related at that time. (would have been if it was just an embrace)

    All in all, no hate was (or is supposed to be) given to the actors as they all tried hard and did an amazing job. Poor direction and writing in addition to Disney's choking on JJ are what made the movie bad.
    Was the movie good? -Yes and no. Seeing what Ep 7 & 8 did, it really worked hard to correct various mistakes so yes. But from a general story/novel perspective I would say it was also greatly flawed (as stated above)

    1. don't think it messed up arc at all. emp was fine, and far better than lolsnoke

    2. anakin showing up would have been fine/cool, either at the end nut I would probably prefer it when kylo went back to being ben

    3. force healing was fine. I saw it as a blend of jedi and palp sith.

    4. see #2

    5. agree, fight could have been better. thought they should have teamed up more v palp

    6. kylo should have lived and together they would have forge a new path. rey "skywalker" was stupid and she should ave said "Just Rey" with a smile. kiss was w/e but they could have led up to it more
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Where to begin?

    I feel the entire trilogy was a let down and TROS was just the final piece.

    TLJ was the part that really derailed the ST beyond redemption.

    JJ tried to make it better but it just failed, people can say they like it if they want. It was entertaining I'm not gonna lie, but entertaining doesn't mean it was a good movie - it just failed the franchise, the whole ST failed.

    Issues I had were:

    1. Palpatine's return undermined Anakin/Vader's prophecy and story arc of the entire saga before (E1-6). Anakin was prophesized to destroy the Sith and Bring Balance - this is why JJ was so careful initially to Introduce Snoke and Kylo as villains in TFA - they were not Sith. Therefore Anakin did not destroy Sidious, he merely just defeated him and therefore did not bring balance, merely postponed the imbalance.

    Anakin says to Rey "Bring balance as I did" - so what a 1000 year prophecy of a chosen one to bring balance to the force, where according to TROS the galaxy needs rebalancing every other generation it seems - it was pathetic.

    Sadly Johnson was too lazy or was too cowardly to write a compelling villain out of Snoke and instead killed him off as nobody. This left a gaping hole in the third act (TROS) without a compelling villain to overcome and Kylo was never going to be the one, having already been bested by Rey countless times.

    JJ or I also understand it that Kennedy decided to bring back Palpatine to carry the ST forward as the main protagonist who just popped up out of nowhere from the dead. Palpatine was clear in stating that "To cheat death is a power that only one has achieved, but if we work together, I am sure we can discover the secret." Palpatine had no clue how to resurrect from the dead or heal.

    The other was Plagueis. If they brought back Palpatine without explanation then they could just as ewasily brought back Snoke - especially if he were Plagueis.

    Indeed Anakin fell to the dark side in order to heal and save Padme from death - now everyone in TROS can heal at will. I do like how the darkside version steals life essence in a selfish way to heal, where the light has you give your essence to the point of your own death to save another, selflessly. But should this power have been used at all since it undermines Anakin's fall from grace so much so?

    Additionally Palpatine's demise - Rey just turned his lightening back at him - didn't Mace Windu already do that??? Pretty weak writing there to.

    These are my main points surrounding why I didn't like TROS, but some of my minor points are as follows:

    2. Lightspeed skipping - "you could crash into a star or supernova and that'd end your trip real quick" Lightspeed routes are carefully charted to avoid dangerous collisions. The idea a pilot can lightspeed skip all over the galaxy at will without death is absurd.

    The TIE fighters are already explained to be "short-range" fighters, incapable of lightspeed. Ok lets play along and say technology has moved ahead and they now do have lightspeed capability - how would the TIE pilots be able to lightspeed skip, pulling out of lightspeed at the exact moment and locations where Poe was randomly jumping to? This whole sequence was poorly thought out just to throw in for entertainment "wow" factor and nothing more - brainless entertainment at best.

    3. C3-PO was a droid built by a slave from scrap parts from a junk dealers shop on Tatooine by a small child - yet said child knows to follow Galactic legislation (even though the Republic did not "exist" in the outer rim territories). Legislation of a required program preventing protocol droids from deciphering a certain language.
    Lets not forget that certain language was Sith - according to Ki-Adi Mundi in TPM: "The Sith have been extinct for a millennia" - so we have legislation being inforced out of jursisdiction, preventing a droid from deciphering an old language from over 1000 years ago. Thart is all just mental.

    Also this "plot" adds no risk. As 3PO doesn't lose his memory as R2 just has a back up and updates him later - woohoo, lol. Pathetic.

    4. Ben's fall to the Darkside in following Vader, his redemption by Leia killing herself and he has a guilty conversation with a memory of his murdered dad - Why wouldn't Anakin have ever visited his grandson and say "Ben I don't know who you think you are talking to looking at my old helmet but it aint me, I was redeemed and the darkside is bad Mmmkay" - would have saved a lot of bother wouldn't it?


    To be honest I could literally go on and on and on and on - this was a terrible movie in a terrible trilogy that didn't need to exist - Rey is not in any better of a position as Luke was at the end of ROTJ - so what was the point of this trilogy??

    I just pretend the whole thing doesn't exist, its Legend, just like the old EU.



  • Gifafi wrote: »
    6. kylo should have lived and together they would have forge a new path. rey "skywalker" was stupid and she should ave said "Just Rey" with a smile. kiss was w/e but they could have led up to it more

    Agreed - as a viewer I was actually hoping for a little happily ever after. That said, can't wait to watch it again when it comes out on Disney+.
  • TVF
    25588 posts Member
    What Felt Wrong with Ep9 Rise of Skywalker

    Anecdotal :p
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  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.
  • I liked TLJ, thought TROS was joke. Too many issues with the story to list again. Joke of a movie and quite a few people fell for it. There is a reason it fell below TFM for worst Star Wars movie.
  • Here we go again lol.
    Boo wrote: »
    Where to begin?

    1. Palpatine's return undermined Anakin/Vader's prophecy and story arc of the entire saga before (E1-6). Anakin was prophesized to destroy the Sith and Bring Balance - this is why JJ was so careful initially to Introduce Snoke and Kylo as villains in TFA - they were not Sith. Therefore Anakin did not destroy Sidious, he merely just defeated him and therefore did not bring balance, merely postponed the imbalance.

    No, and we've talked about this too. Prophecy states Chosen One would bring balance. Doesn't say anything about destroying the Sith.
    AntiFunn wrote: »

    - For the entire duration of the film, I was excited and wondered when Anakin Skywalker would come to the screen. Possible points were when Luke arrived as a force ghost, Leia projected Han's image to talk to Kylo through the force and when both Rey and Kylo were seemingly overwhelmed by Palpatine. I even though he would appear by Rey's side and assist her when I started to hear Anakin's voice. Didn't happen.

    - Rey's unbelievably good force/healing abillities. - If we remember Episode 3, Vader betrays the Jedi solely due to the fact that he wants to revive/heal Padme if she dies (duh). I swear if this was possible, Yoda who had lived 900 years would have definitely learned to revive/heal (not superhero Rey). Besides, the way that the force abillity worked, it definitely wouldn't be forbidden to the Jedi code. (Nothing sinister or morally wrong about it). -> Does not make ANY sense.

    I was hoping for an Anakin cameo as well. However, the fact that he is the one who guides her the most when she hears the voices is satisfying.

    As for her healing, what do you think of The Mandolorian? If a child strong in the force can do it, I would assume it's fine for Rey to be able to. What she does has sort of been done before anyways. Mortis Arc of the Clone Wars.
  • My favorite part of the sequels is that they give us an entirely new set of characters, powers, places, and stories for the next trilogy to completely re-write in 15-25 years.

    Then again, that goes for the prequels too.
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  • Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    Then I'll write my own big long post about it lol.
  • Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    Can't speak for anyone else, but...
    I like Star Wars.
    I enjoyed the nostalgia it evoked, but have done enough thinking to know that I'll never be awed by anything like I was when I was a kid.
    I've already accepted continuity issues in the Galaxy Far Far Away in order to enjoy the OT, nm the PT, so at this point, it's just entertainment, not dogma.
    I have no problems with strong female leads and have been around long enough to see real people become jaded by their own life experiences and mistakes.
    I don't take anything anyone has done with a fictional character personally.

    If Lucas had this whole thing locked down tight from the get go, maybe my perspective would be different, but he was the master of ad-lib. As such, none of the "shortcomings" of the ST really get to me. Could it have been better? Absolutely. Do I think that little old me understands enough about the story telling or film making process to think I could provide any valuable feedback? Nope. It was a good six plus hours worth of entertainment.
  • TVF
    25588 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Joke of a movie and quite a few people fell for it.

    k
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Here we go again lol.
    Boo wrote: »
    Where to begin?

    1. Palpatine's return undermined Anakin/Vader's prophecy and story arc of the entire saga before (E1-6). Anakin was prophesized to destroy the Sith and Bring Balance - this is why JJ was so careful initially to Introduce Snoke and Kylo as villains in TFA - they were not Sith. Therefore Anakin did not destroy Sidious, he merely just defeated him and therefore did not bring balance, merely postponed the imbalance.

    No, and we've talked about this too. Prophecy states Chosen One would bring balance. Doesn't say anything about destroying the Sith.

    That's where I really wanted it to go. When they had kylo talking to vader helmet saying he'd finish what was started I felt like it meant kylo went dark to bring balance to the force again - because luke training light side meant there was only light and no dark, so no balance again.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Here we go again lol.
    Boo wrote: »
    Where to begin?

    1. Palpatine's return undermined Anakin/Vader's prophecy and story arc of the entire saga before (E1-6). Anakin was prophesized to destroy the Sith and Bring Balance - this is why JJ was so careful initially to Introduce Snoke and Kylo as villains in TFA - they were not Sith. Therefore Anakin did not destroy Sidious, he merely just defeated him and therefore did not bring balance, merely postponed the imbalance.

    No, and we've talked about this too. Prophecy states Chosen One would bring balance. Doesn't say anything about destroying the Sith.
    AntiFunn wrote: »

    - For the entire duration of the film, I was excited and wondered when Anakin Skywalker would come to the screen. Possible points were when Luke arrived as a force ghost, Leia projected Han's image to talk to Kylo through the force and when both Rey and Kylo were seemingly overwhelmed by Palpatine. I even though he would appear by Rey's side and assist her when I started to hear Anakin's voice. Didn't happen.

    - Rey's unbelievably good force/healing abillities. - If we remember Episode 3, Vader betrays the Jedi solely due to the fact that he wants to revive/heal Padme if she dies (duh). I swear if this was possible, Yoda who had lived 900 years would have definitely learned to revive/heal (not superhero Rey). Besides, the way that the force abillity worked, it definitely wouldn't be forbidden to the Jedi code. (Nothing sinister or morally wrong about it). -> Does not make ANY sense.

    I was hoping for an Anakin cameo as well. However, the fact that he is the one who guides her the most when she hears the voices is satisfying.

    As for her healing, what do you think of The Mandolorian? If a child strong in the force can do it, I would assume it's fine for Rey to be able to. What she does has sort of been done before anyways. Mortis Arc of the Clone Wars.

    I am not looking for an argument, just stating why I didn't like the movie.

    Any "made up" wording of the prophecy after the fact is nonsense.

    As the prophecy was explained in PT, the chosen one was to destroy the sith and bring balance, that is the official wording of the prophecy that we know within the movies - yes, Yoda says the prophecy may have been misread - but we all do not know what that means.

    The fact it was proven time and time again that Anakin was the chosen one and he did destroy the Sith - that part of the prophecy was legit. Yet here we are with the ST making it all up as it goes along from one director to another.

    You may see under The Mandalorian post in this Forum's "off-topic" section, I highly question the use of Baby Yoda's ability to heal as well and state I do not like it there any more than I do in TROS.

    I hope there is some explanation about it in the coming season(s) of the show - TROS ended the ST as well as the saga - so no hope for any explanation there.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    DuneFlint wrote: »
    Here we go again lol.
    Boo wrote: »
    Where to begin?

    1. Palpatine's return undermined Anakin/Vader's prophecy and story arc of the entire saga before (E1-6). Anakin was prophesized to destroy the Sith and Bring Balance - this is why JJ was so careful initially to Introduce Snoke and Kylo as villains in TFA - they were not Sith. Therefore Anakin did not destroy Sidious, he merely just defeated him and therefore did not bring balance, merely postponed the imbalance.

    No, and we've talked about this too. Prophecy states Chosen One would bring balance. Doesn't say anything about destroying the Sith.

    That's where I really wanted it to go. When they had kylo talking to vader helmet saying he'd finish what was started I felt like it meant kylo went dark to bring balance to the force again - because luke training light side meant there was only light and no dark, so no balance again.

    Agreed, especially when Kylo said in TLJ to let the past die, the Jedi and the Sith. But we got what we got didn't we?
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.
  • Gifafi
    4988 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Here we go again lol.
    Boo wrote: »
    Where to begin?

    1. Palpatine's return undermined Anakin/Vader's prophecy and story arc of the entire saga before (E1-6). Anakin was prophesized to destroy the Sith and Bring Balance - this is why JJ was so careful initially to Introduce Snoke and Kylo as villains in TFA - they were not Sith. Therefore Anakin did not destroy Sidious, he merely just defeated him and therefore did not bring balance, merely postponed the imbalance.

    No, and we've talked about this too. Prophecy states Chosen One would bring balance. Doesn't say anything about destroying the Sith.
    AntiFunn wrote: »

    - For the entire duration of the film, I was excited and wondered when Anakin Skywalker would come to the screen. Possible points were when Luke arrived as a force ghost, Leia projected Han's image to talk to Kylo through the force and when both Rey and Kylo were seemingly overwhelmed by Palpatine. I even though he would appear by Rey's side and assist her when I started to hear Anakin's voice. Didn't happen.

    - Rey's unbelievably good force/healing abillities. - If we remember Episode 3, Vader betrays the Jedi solely due to the fact that he wants to revive/heal Padme if she dies (duh). I swear if this was possible, Yoda who had lived 900 years would have definitely learned to revive/heal (not superhero Rey). Besides, the way that the force abillity worked, it definitely wouldn't be forbidden to the Jedi code. (Nothing sinister or morally wrong about it). -> Does not make ANY sense.

    I was hoping for an Anakin cameo as well. However, the fact that he is the one who guides her the most when she hears the voices is satisfying.

    As for her healing, what do you think of The Mandolorian? If a child strong in the force can do it, I would assume it's fine for Rey to be able to. What she does has sort of been done before anyways. Mortis Arc of the Clone Wars.

    I am not looking for an argument, just stating why I didn't like the movie.

    Any "made up" wording of the prophecy after the fact is nonsense.

    As the prophecy was explained in PT, the chosen one was to destroy the sith and bring balance, that is the official wording of the prophecy that we know within the movies - yes, Yoda says the prophecy may have been misread - but we all do not know what that means.

    The fact it was proven time and time again that Anakin was the chosen one and he did destroy the Sith - that part of the prophecy was legit. Yet here we are with the ST making it all up as it goes along from one director to another.

    You may see under The Mandalorian post in this Forum's "off-topic" section, I highly question the use of Baby Yoda's ability to heal as well and state I do not like it there any more than I do in TROS.

    I hope there is some explanation about it in the coming season(s) of the show - TROS ended the ST as well as the saga - so no hope for any explanation there.

    the prophecy said he would bring balance. nothing about destroying the sith, that was windu iirc. I mean, what a pompous **** he was, saying if the sith were destroyed the force would be in balance. and at the time were there any sith? that they knew of?
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • TVF
    25588 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    I am not looking for an argument
    Boo wrote: »
    In my view, he [Rian Johnson] was too much of a coward

    :thinking:
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  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Here we go again lol.
    Boo wrote: »
    Where to begin?

    1. Palpatine's return undermined Anakin/Vader's prophecy and story arc of the entire saga before (E1-6). Anakin was prophesized to destroy the Sith and Bring Balance - this is why JJ was so careful initially to Introduce Snoke and Kylo as villains in TFA - they were not Sith. Therefore Anakin did not destroy Sidious, he merely just defeated him and therefore did not bring balance, merely postponed the imbalance.

    No, and we've talked about this too. Prophecy states Chosen One would bring balance. Doesn't say anything about destroying the Sith.
    AntiFunn wrote: »

    - For the entire duration of the film, I was excited and wondered when Anakin Skywalker would come to the screen. Possible points were when Luke arrived as a force ghost, Leia projected Han's image to talk to Kylo through the force and when both Rey and Kylo were seemingly overwhelmed by Palpatine. I even though he would appear by Rey's side and assist her when I started to hear Anakin's voice. Didn't happen.

    - Rey's unbelievably good force/healing abillities. - If we remember Episode 3, Vader betrays the Jedi solely due to the fact that he wants to revive/heal Padme if she dies (duh). I swear if this was possible, Yoda who had lived 900 years would have definitely learned to revive/heal (not superhero Rey). Besides, the way that the force abillity worked, it definitely wouldn't be forbidden to the Jedi code. (Nothing sinister or morally wrong about it). -> Does not make ANY sense.

    I was hoping for an Anakin cameo as well. However, the fact that he is the one who guides her the most when she hears the voices is satisfying.

    As for her healing, what do you think of The Mandolorian? If a child strong in the force can do it, I would assume it's fine for Rey to be able to. What she does has sort of been done before anyways. Mortis Arc of the Clone Wars.

    I am not looking for an argument, just stating why I didn't like the movie.

    Any "made up" wording of the prophecy after the fact is nonsense.

    As the prophecy was explained in PT, the chosen one was to destroy the sith and bring balance, that is the official wording of the prophecy that we know within the movies - yes, Yoda says the prophecy may have been misread - but we all do not know what that means.

    The fact it was proven time and time again that Anakin was the chosen one and he did destroy the Sith - that part of the prophecy was legit. Yet here we are with the ST making it all up as it goes along from one director to another.

    You may see under The Mandalorian post in this Forum's "off-topic" section, I highly question the use of Baby Yoda's ability to heal as well and state I do not like it there any more than I do in TROS.

    I hope there is some explanation about it in the coming season(s) of the show - TROS ended the ST as well as the saga - so no hope for any explanation there.

    the prophecy said he would bring balance. nothing about destroying the sith, that was windu iirc. I mean, what a pompous **** he was, saying if the sith were destroyed the force would be in balance. and at the time were there any sith? that they knew of?

    Yet the chosen one was discovered upon the return of the sith. It lined up.

    Like I say, whatever wording of the prophecy is out there now on Wookiepedia or wherever we don't know what has been written to suite the new star wars narrative.

    What we do know is what is said in the film.

    I believe the misread portion was that the Jedi and Sith needed to be destroyed and the Jedi were too arrogant to believe they needed to be "corrected" as well.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Gifafi
    4988 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Here we go again lol.
    Boo wrote: »
    Where to begin?

    1. Palpatine's return undermined Anakin/Vader's prophecy and story arc of the entire saga before (E1-6). Anakin was prophesized to destroy the Sith and Bring Balance - this is why JJ was so careful initially to Introduce Snoke and Kylo as villains in TFA - they were not Sith. Therefore Anakin did not destroy Sidious, he merely just defeated him and therefore did not bring balance, merely postponed the imbalance.

    No, and we've talked about this too. Prophecy states Chosen One would bring balance. Doesn't say anything about destroying the Sith.
    AntiFunn wrote: »

    - For the entire duration of the film, I was excited and wondered when Anakin Skywalker would come to the screen. Possible points were when Luke arrived as a force ghost, Leia projected Han's image to talk to Kylo through the force and when both Rey and Kylo were seemingly overwhelmed by Palpatine. I even though he would appear by Rey's side and assist her when I started to hear Anakin's voice. Didn't happen.

    - Rey's unbelievably good force/healing abillities. - If we remember Episode 3, Vader betrays the Jedi solely due to the fact that he wants to revive/heal Padme if she dies (duh). I swear if this was possible, Yoda who had lived 900 years would have definitely learned to revive/heal (not superhero Rey). Besides, the way that the force abillity worked, it definitely wouldn't be forbidden to the Jedi code. (Nothing sinister or morally wrong about it). -> Does not make ANY sense.

    I was hoping for an Anakin cameo as well. However, the fact that he is the one who guides her the most when she hears the voices is satisfying.

    As for her healing, what do you think of The Mandolorian? If a child strong in the force can do it, I would assume it's fine for Rey to be able to. What she does has sort of been done before anyways. Mortis Arc of the Clone Wars.

    I am not looking for an argument, just stating why I didn't like the movie.

    Any "made up" wording of the prophecy after the fact is nonsense.

    As the prophecy was explained in PT, the chosen one was to destroy the sith and bring balance, that is the official wording of the prophecy that we know within the movies - yes, Yoda says the prophecy may have been misread - but we all do not know what that means.

    The fact it was proven time and time again that Anakin was the chosen one and he did destroy the Sith - that part of the prophecy was legit. Yet here we are with the ST making it all up as it goes along from one director to another.

    You may see under The Mandalorian post in this Forum's "off-topic" section, I highly question the use of Baby Yoda's ability to heal as well and state I do not like it there any more than I do in TROS.

    I hope there is some explanation about it in the coming season(s) of the show - TROS ended the ST as well as the saga - so no hope for any explanation there.

    the prophecy said he would bring balance. nothing about destroying the sith, that was windu iirc. I mean, what a pompous **** he was, saying if the sith were destroyed the force would be in balance. and at the time were there any sith? that they knew of?

    Yet the chosen one was discovered upon the return of the sith. It lined up.

    Like I say, whatever wording of the prophecy is out there now on Wookiepedia or wherever we don't know what has been written to suite the new star wars narrative.

    What we do know is what is said in the film.

    I believe the misread portion was that the Jedi and Sith needed to be destroyed and the Jedi were too arrogant to believe they needed to be "corrected" as well.

    oh, so you agree with me after all. well good
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.
    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.
    I 100% agree with this. Although, I'll give him a bit more credit for the execution. I wish he would've been given TFA to start with so he could have set the scene himself rather than play off of JJ's reenactment of ANH. Rian is great at making movies with substance. It really is a shame that people angry at the direction of TLJ write him off.
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.
    Lemme butt in here... JJ was the one who gave us another hermit jedi. Rian had to rationalize why JJ put Luke in isolation.

    I also understand why he killed off Snoke like that. Snoke was another JJ "mystery box" style characters with no explanation as to why and how they were there. Rather than have it play out like an exact mirror to the Vader/Palp dynamic of the OT, he opted to put Kylo into the lead position(which JJ then retracted again in TRoS) since Kylo and Rey were the most important characters of the ST anyway.

    I'm sure I've had this same conversation with you before in another thread. lol
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    As to why I liked the trilogy...

    First off, I will always like the OT the best. It's the first movie series I remember becoming obsessed with. My dad had the old trilogy on Betamax(pre-VHS) and then the trilogy collection on VHS. In other words, I don't think anything could top the feeling I had as a kid watching those movies and feeling like I'm literally in another universe watching these things come to life.

    Prequel trilogy came out and was a disappointment, IMO. I still like them because it's Star Wars, but part of the magic that made the OT so great(practical special effects) was ditched in favor of CGI that didn't particularly age well. Then you throw in some shoddy dialog and some other things that don't fit in right for continuity to work, then yeah... I still watched and enjoyed them, but I didn't think they lived up to the expectation of the original.

    Along comes the ST. I think they were a happy medium between the OT and PT. My main dislike was that they leaned too heavily on call backs and nostalgia(which is why I actually like TLJ, since Rian tried to let the movie be its own movie and do something different). ST characters are likeable enough, IMO the dialog is overall the best in the ST than any other trilogy. The OT has some memorable lines for sure, but there are a ton of cringey lines as well. The fight scenes weren't overly coordinated to where they are dancing (like PT), but I do wish they were a little better. The VFX were top notch(as expected). Basically, I can acknowledge their faults, but they're still fun to watch. They don't have to be perfect to enjoy.
  • AntiFunn wrote: »
    If we remember Episode 3, Vader betrays the Jedi solely due to the fact that he wants to revive/heal Padme if she dies (duh).

    I think there was a little bit more than that to it. The whole "you're on the council, but we do not grant you the rank of master" thing played a part. The whole "Something’s happening. I’m not the Jedi I should be. I want more. And I know I shouldn’t" seems to indicate he was getting ready for some youngling slaughter, but agreed that Sid's manipulation around Padme was a precipitating event.

    All that said, it's a world in which they've mastered the science to travel between solar systems in days, create artificial limbs regularly, have abundant droids to perform medical functions and super-substance tanks that magically heal injuries, but death during childbirth is still a thing? Maybe...it appears they didn't even seem to have ultrasounds so that she knew she was carrying twins.

    But let's most certainly accept all of that and latch onto this newly concocted magic power as being inconsistent with all of the previously concocted magic powers.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.

    The whole point of Luke's character in the OT in the context after the release of the PT is that the force had been re-balanced and Luke was going to create a new generation of Jedi, aware of the Republic's era of Jedi's faults, including their training.

    Regardless of what they did to Luke's character in the ST, Rey ends up in the exact same position as Luke did in ROTJ - nothing has been added to the story of star wars with this new trilogy, that's my point.

    Rey has just become the new Luke and will be training the next generation of Jedi going forward - this trilogy was pointless.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Here we go again lol.
    Boo wrote: »
    Where to begin?

    1. Palpatine's return undermined Anakin/Vader's prophecy and story arc of the entire saga before (E1-6). Anakin was prophesized to destroy the Sith and Bring Balance - this is why JJ was so careful initially to Introduce Snoke and Kylo as villains in TFA - they were not Sith. Therefore Anakin did not destroy Sidious, he merely just defeated him and therefore did not bring balance, merely postponed the imbalance.

    No, and we've talked about this too. Prophecy states Chosen One would bring balance. Doesn't say anything about destroying the Sith.
    AntiFunn wrote: »

    - For the entire duration of the film, I was excited and wondered when Anakin Skywalker would come to the screen. Possible points were when Luke arrived as a force ghost, Leia projected Han's image to talk to Kylo through the force and when both Rey and Kylo were seemingly overwhelmed by Palpatine. I even though he would appear by Rey's side and assist her when I started to hear Anakin's voice. Didn't happen.

    - Rey's unbelievably good force/healing abillities. - If we remember Episode 3, Vader betrays the Jedi solely due to the fact that he wants to revive/heal Padme if she dies (duh). I swear if this was possible, Yoda who had lived 900 years would have definitely learned to revive/heal (not superhero Rey). Besides, the way that the force abillity worked, it definitely wouldn't be forbidden to the Jedi code. (Nothing sinister or morally wrong about it). -> Does not make ANY sense.

    I was hoping for an Anakin cameo as well. However, the fact that he is the one who guides her the most when she hears the voices is satisfying.

    As for her healing, what do you think of The Mandolorian? If a child strong in the force can do it, I would assume it's fine for Rey to be able to. What she does has sort of been done before anyways. Mortis Arc of the Clone Wars.

    I am not looking for an argument, just stating why I didn't like the movie.

    Any "made up" wording of the prophecy after the fact is nonsense.

    As the prophecy was explained in PT, the chosen one was to destroy the sith and bring balance, that is the official wording of the prophecy that we know within the movies - yes, Yoda says the prophecy may have been misread - but we all do not know what that means.

    The fact it was proven time and time again that Anakin was the chosen one and he did destroy the Sith - that part of the prophecy was legit. Yet here we are with the ST making it all up as it goes along from one director to another.

    You may see under The Mandalorian post in this Forum's "off-topic" section, I highly question the use of Baby Yoda's ability to heal as well and state I do not like it there any more than I do in TROS.

    I hope there is some explanation about it in the coming season(s) of the show - TROS ended the ST as well as the saga - so no hope for any explanation there.

    Lol. It's ok to argue about this stuff, it's lighthearted and fun to discuss. You're another Star Wars fan who has a different view than me. That's good. So much of this stuff is up for interpretation. The Creator himself even said at one point that they were not out to try and define every single thing, some things they wanted to leave up to the viewer's perspective. Obi-Wan's whole "certain point of view" thing. I actually find many of your posts really intriguing on this stuff cause it makes those of us who support the ST/TROS think, you know? So let's argue! Ha.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    willennium wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.
    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.
    I 100% agree with this. Although, I'll give him a bit more credit for the execution. I wish he would've been given TFA to start with so he could have set the scene himself rather than play off of JJ's reenactment of ANH. Rian is great at making movies with substance. It really is a shame that people angry at the direction of TLJ write him off.
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.
    Lemme butt in here... JJ was the one who gave us another hermit jedi. Rian had to rationalize why JJ put Luke in isolation.

    I also understand why he killed off Snoke like that. Snoke was another JJ "mystery box" style characters with no explanation as to why and how they were there. Rather than have it play out like an exact mirror to the Vader/Palp dynamic of the OT, he opted to put Kylo into the lead position(which JJ then retracted again in TRoS) since Kylo and Rey were the most important characters of the ST anyway.

    I'm sure I've had this same conversation with you before in another thread. lol
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    As to why I liked the trilogy...

    First off, I will always like the OT the best. It's the first movie series I remember becoming obsessed with. My dad had the old trilogy on Betamax(pre-VHS) and then the trilogy collection on VHS. In other words, I don't think anything could top the feeling I had as a kid watching those movies and feeling like I'm literally in another universe watching these things come to life.

    Prequel trilogy came out and was a disappointment, IMO. I still like them because it's Star Wars, but part of the magic that made the OT so great(practical special effects) was ditched in favor of CGI that didn't particularly age well. Then you throw in some shoddy dialog and some other things that don't fit in right for continuity to work, then yeah... I still watched and enjoyed them, but I didn't think they lived up to the expectation of the original.

    Along comes the ST. I think they were a happy medium between the OT and PT. My main dislike was that they leaned too heavily on call backs and nostalgia(which is why I actually like TLJ, since Rian tried to let the movie be its own movie and do something different). ST characters are likeable enough, IMO the dialog is overall the best in the ST than any other trilogy. The OT has some memorable lines for sure, but there are a ton of cringey lines as well. The fight scenes weren't overly coordinated to where they are dancing (like PT), but I do wish they were a little better. The VFX were top notch(as expected). Basically, I can acknowledge their faults, but they're still fun to watch. They don't have to be perfect to enjoy.

    JJ gave us Luke on an island at the site of the first Jedi Temple.

    JJ also had to change the ending of TFA before release due to Johnson's script of the last Jedi.

    JJ's original TFA ending had Luke at the edge of that cliff using the power of the force to levitate massive boulders around him. He was also dressed in his Jedi robes and chose the location of the Jedi Temple for a reason - there could have been many reasons why he was there, but if he was still dressed as a jedi and using the force - he clearly had not given up on the jedi or disconnected himself from the force. We likely could have got an entirely different reason why Luke was there and an entirely different version of Luke than what we saw in TLJ from JJ.

    Snoke was initially there to drawn in an audience with the new trilogy. After the fulfillment of the prophecy and sith destroyed - more importantly Palpatine destroyed - where did Snoke come from? His character was intriguing and needed a backstory - he needed to be fleshed out and made a compelling villain - like I say, Johnson was either too lazy or cowardly to write a compelling villain of Snoke, while trolling the audience that "their Snoke theories suck".

    I see that Johnson wanted to "break the mold" as you say, but the final act (TROS) needed a compelling villain to be overcome - Johnson was hinting towards Kylo being that villain as the new Supreme Leader, but Kylo was not compelling enough to carry that role forward as he had already been bested by Rey several times.

    Johnson failed to understand that his movie was the connecting piece in the trilogy and did his own thing, not seeing the bigger picture, or not caring to see it.

    Hence Palpatine's return. But like I said, JJ could have brought back Snoke, just as easily as he brought back Palpatine, but I believe I read somewhere that Palps return was a Kennedy idea, rather than solely JJ's. Which explains a lot, lol.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.

    The whole point of Luke's character in the OT in the context after the release of the PT is that the force had been re-balanced and Luke was going to create a new generation of Jedi, aware of the Republic's era of Jedi's faults, including their training.

    Regardless of what they did to Luke's character in the ST, Rey ends up in the exact same position as Luke did in ROTJ - nothing has been added to the story of star wars with this new trilogy, that's my point.

    Rey has just become the new Luke and will be training the next generation of Jedi going forward - this trilogy was pointless.

    The force cannot be balanced with only the light existing. That is not how balance works.

    Also, we do not know that Rey is setting out to train a new generation of Jedi, unless that is somewhere in the books that I have not read. If she has learned from the past three movies, which I believe was signified by the burying of the lightsabers, then she will not set out to rebuild the Jedi. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, maybe she will try and forge a new path of force sensitives that completely ignores the teachings of a flawed and corrupt cult. Who knows, thats for a hypothetical future trilogy to address.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
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