What Felt Wrong with Ep9 Rise of Skywalker [SPOILERS AHEAD]

Replies

  • Anakin never balanced the Force. Why can’t people see that?

    Anakin betraying the Jedi was not just due to him wanting to save Padme.

    He was a slave who the Jedi wanted to use for their personal gain
    The Jedi never freed his mom from slavery and it ended up costing her life
    The Jedi denied his training at first stating numerous reasons
    The Jedi deny him the title of Master but put him on the counsel
    They go against their code and ask him to spy on Palpatine
    Mace goes against the code and try’s to kill Palpatine
    Jedi kick Ashoka out
    On and on we can go.

    Anakin, like Luke, learned of how crooked the Jedi really are. They are “peace keepers” who pass out laser swords. Ironic isn’t it?
  • Anakin brought balance by turning into Darth Vader and killing the Jedi. There were hundreds or Jedi running around and two Sith. No balance at all.

    If you just look at the sole survivors known from just the movies, Episode 4-6, you would have two Sith, Palpatine and Vader, and two Jedi, Old Ben and Yoda, alive. Balance.

    With Luke being the sole survivor after Episode 6 for decades, the balance would be lost again.
  • AntiFunn wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Anakin brought balance by turning into Darth Vader and killing the Jedi. There were hundreds or Jedi running around and two Sith. No balance at all.

    If you just look at the sole survivors known from just the movies, Episode 4-6, you would have two Sith, Palpatine and Vader, and two Jedi, Old Ben and Yoda, alive. Balance.

    With Luke being the sole survivor after Episode 6 for decades, the balance would be lost again.

    Balance, is described in SW as a state where things are fair and peaceful. It is not explaining 2=2.
    If you think the Empire/Sith regime is what you call a balanced life, it would be the same as living in a **** German occupied world where you couldn't do anything about it.

    Thats what the "good" guys tell you. Its a jedi prophecy, so of course it has their cult winning in the end. To truly balance the force there would be neither jedi or sith. Not only jedi or only sith.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Since Rey and Ben both had light and dark in them, I was wanting them to join together and form a school that taught all of the Force. Then true balance would be back.
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.

    The whole point of Luke's character in the OT in the context after the release of the PT is that the force had been re-balanced and Luke was going to create a new generation of Jedi, aware of the Republic's era of Jedi's faults, including their training.

    Regardless of what they did to Luke's character in the ST, Rey ends up in the exact same position as Luke did in ROTJ - nothing has been added to the story of star wars with this new trilogy, that's my point.

    Rey has just become the new Luke and will be training the next generation of Jedi going forward - this trilogy was pointless.

    The force cannot be balanced with only the light existing. That is not how balance works.

    Also, we do not know that Rey is setting out to train a new generation of Jedi, unless that is somewhere in the books that I have not read. If she has learned from the past three movies, which I believe was signified by the burying of the lightsabers, then she will not set out to rebuild the Jedi. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, maybe she will try and forge a new path of force sensitives that completely ignores the teachings of a flawed and corrupt cult. Who knows, thats for a hypothetical future trilogy to address.

    Yet Rey embodied all the Jedi and stood as a Jedi at the end of TROS.

    If you did not understand how the force was balanced with Luke at the end of ROTJ - then you didn't understand star wars at all.
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Anakin never balanced the Force. Why can’t people see that?

    Anakin betraying the Jedi was not just due to him wanting to save Padme.

    He was a slave who the Jedi wanted to use for their personal gain
    The Jedi never freed his mom from slavery and it ended up costing her life
    The Jedi denied his training at first stating numerous reasons
    The Jedi deny him the title of Master but put him on the counsel
    They go against their code and ask him to spy on Palpatine
    Mace goes against the code and try’s to kill Palpatine
    Jedi kick Ashoka out
    On and on we can go.

    Anakin, like Luke, learned of how crooked the Jedi really are. They are “peace keepers” who pass out laser swords. Ironic isn’t it?

    Of course Anakin balanced the force. Part of the force being balanced was to wipe out the corruption that had manifested itself within the teachings of the Jedi. The Jedi's destruction was part of the prophecy - that is what Yoda meant when he suggested the prophecy was misread. Their arrogance only saw the destruction of the Sith, not themselves.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.

    The whole point of Luke's character in the OT in the context after the release of the PT is that the force had been re-balanced and Luke was going to create a new generation of Jedi, aware of the Republic's era of Jedi's faults, including their training.

    Regardless of what they did to Luke's character in the ST, Rey ends up in the exact same position as Luke did in ROTJ - nothing has been added to the story of star wars with this new trilogy, that's my point.

    Rey has just become the new Luke and will be training the next generation of Jedi going forward - this trilogy was pointless.

    The force cannot be balanced with only the light existing. That is not how balance works.

    Also, we do not know that Rey is setting out to train a new generation of Jedi, unless that is somewhere in the books that I have not read. If she has learned from the past three movies, which I believe was signified by the burying of the lightsabers, then she will not set out to rebuild the Jedi. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, maybe she will try and forge a new path of force sensitives that completely ignores the teachings of a flawed and corrupt cult. Who knows, thats for a hypothetical future trilogy to address.

    Yet Rey embodied all the Jedi and stood as a Jedi at the end of TROS.

    If you did not understand how the force was balanced with Luke at the end of ROTJ - then you didn't understand star wars at all.

    i understand how Luke fulfilled a prophecy for a cult of extemists who believe they are always right, but that does not equal balance in the Force between light and dark. Unless you are calling Luke not a Light side jedi, but rather a neutral force user who harnesses both powers from the light and the dark.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Anakin brought balance by turning into Darth Vader and killing the Jedi. There were hundreds or Jedi running around and two Sith. No balance at all.

    If you just look at the sole survivors known from just the movies, Episode 4-6, you would have two Sith, Palpatine and Vader, and two Jedi, Old Ben and Yoda, alive. Balance.

    With Luke being the sole survivor after Episode 6 for decades, the balance would be lost again.

    The balance wasn't about the ratio between Jedi and Sith. The balance was about the use of the force. The warped corruption of the force by the Sith and the corrupted arrogance teachings of the Jedi.

    The power of the darkside had grown to diminish the use of the force in the galaxy - the Jedi mention this clearly in the PT.

    On the light side, they had become arrogant and corrupt:
    * serving a corrupt senate and not the people of the Republic
    * Arrogance was a flaw more and more common among jedi, including how the prophecy was misread.
    * Mace was to kill Palpatine out of fear
    * Breaking the Jedi code to have Anakin on the counsel, not as a master and having him spy on the Chancellor,
    * No emotion there is peace - no love or attachment.

    Yoda said to Luke to pass on to others what he had learned (not what he was taught). Luke learned that his sith lord Father could be loved and saved rather than destroyed and that Vader's love and attachment for his son was what turned him from the darkside and allowed him to destroy the sith.

    Luke was to rebuild the Jedi, without the corruption and that emotion was an essential part of life, not to be feared but controlled (another reason why he threw his saber away when facing Palpatine, not killing his father, and why Luke's portrayal in TLJ re: Kylo's creation was out of character).

  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    AntiFunn wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Anakin brought balance by turning into Darth Vader and killing the Jedi. There were hundreds or Jedi running around and two Sith. No balance at all.

    If you just look at the sole survivors known from just the movies, Episode 4-6, you would have two Sith, Palpatine and Vader, and two Jedi, Old Ben and Yoda, alive. Balance.

    With Luke being the sole survivor after Episode 6 for decades, the balance would be lost again.

    Balance, is described in SW as a state where things are fair and peaceful. It is not explaining 2=2.
    If you think the Empire/Sith regime is what you call a balanced life, it would be the same as living in a **** German occupied world where you couldn't do anything about it.

    Thats what the "good" guys tell you. Its a jedi prophecy, so of course it has their cult winning in the end. To truly balance the force there would be neither jedi or sith. Not only jedi or only sith.

    Incorrect. There would be fair use of the force as it was naturally intended - not the corruption of the darkside, nor the dogmatic view of the arrogant Jedi. A new breed of force users attune to the force, fair and just.

    Otherwise with Rey - the force is still out of balance at the end of TROS.
  • Gifafi
    4531 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    AntiFunn wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Anakin brought balance by turning into Darth Vader and killing the Jedi. There were hundreds or Jedi running around and two Sith. No balance at all.

    If you just look at the sole survivors known from just the movies, Episode 4-6, you would have two Sith, Palpatine and Vader, and two Jedi, Old Ben and Yoda, alive. Balance.

    With Luke being the sole survivor after Episode 6 for decades, the balance would be lost again.

    Balance, is described in SW as a state where things are fair and peaceful. It is not explaining 2=2.
    If you think the Empire/Sith regime is what you call a balanced life, it would be the same as living in a **** German occupied world where you couldn't do anything about it.

    Thats what the "good" guys tell you. Its a jedi prophecy, so of course it has their cult winning in the end. To truly balance the force there would be neither jedi or sith. Not only jedi or only sith.

    Incorrect. There would be fair use of the force as it was naturally intended - not the corruption of the darkside, nor the dogmatic view of the arrogant Jedi. A new breed of force users attune to the force, fair and just.

    Otherwise with Rey - the force is still out of balance at the end of TROS.

    which is why it should have been her and Kylo Ben at the end, forging a new path together. imo. plus, "jedi's" with lighting hands would be dope lol
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.

    The whole point of Luke's character in the OT in the context after the release of the PT is that the force had been re-balanced and Luke was going to create a new generation of Jedi, aware of the Republic's era of Jedi's faults, including their training.

    Regardless of what they did to Luke's character in the ST, Rey ends up in the exact same position as Luke did in ROTJ - nothing has been added to the story of star wars with this new trilogy, that's my point.

    Rey has just become the new Luke and will be training the next generation of Jedi going forward - this trilogy was pointless.

    The force cannot be balanced with only the light existing. That is not how balance works.

    Also, we do not know that Rey is setting out to train a new generation of Jedi, unless that is somewhere in the books that I have not read. If she has learned from the past three movies, which I believe was signified by the burying of the lightsabers, then she will not set out to rebuild the Jedi. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, maybe she will try and forge a new path of force sensitives that completely ignores the teachings of a flawed and corrupt cult. Who knows, thats for a hypothetical future trilogy to address.

    Yet Rey embodied all the Jedi and stood as a Jedi at the end of TROS.

    If you did not understand how the force was balanced with Luke at the end of ROTJ - then you didn't understand star wars at all.

    i understand how Luke fulfilled a prophecy for a cult of extemists who believe they are always right, but that does not equal balance in the Force between light and dark. Unless you are calling Luke not a Light side jedi, but rather a neutral force user who harnesses both powers from the light and the dark.

    Then you do not understand star wars - it was Anakin that fulfilled the prophecy. The prophecy was of the force, not for the jedi or sith - the Jedi made it "their" prophecy, which is why they believed it was misread as they could not fathom that the prophecy included their own demise.

    Luke was not the chosen one, not did he fulfill the prophecy - Anakin did.

    Luke had learned from his own experiences - how his father fell to the darkside and why the jedi were wrong. He was to pass on to others what he learned - not what he was taught. The jedi were wrong.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.

    The whole point of Luke's character in the OT in the context after the release of the PT is that the force had been re-balanced and Luke was going to create a new generation of Jedi, aware of the Republic's era of Jedi's faults, including their training.

    Regardless of what they did to Luke's character in the ST, Rey ends up in the exact same position as Luke did in ROTJ - nothing has been added to the story of star wars with this new trilogy, that's my point.

    Rey has just become the new Luke and will be training the next generation of Jedi going forward - this trilogy was pointless.

    The force cannot be balanced with only the light existing. That is not how balance works.

    Also, we do not know that Rey is setting out to train a new generation of Jedi, unless that is somewhere in the books that I have not read. If she has learned from the past three movies, which I believe was signified by the burying of the lightsabers, then she will not set out to rebuild the Jedi. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, maybe she will try and forge a new path of force sensitives that completely ignores the teachings of a flawed and corrupt cult. Who knows, thats for a hypothetical future trilogy to address.

    Yet Rey embodied all the Jedi and stood as a Jedi at the end of TROS.

    If you did not understand how the force was balanced with Luke at the end of ROTJ - then you didn't understand star wars at all.

    i understand how Luke fulfilled a prophecy for a cult of extemists who believe they are always right, but that does not equal balance in the Force between light and dark. Unless you are calling Luke not a Light side jedi, but rather a neutral force user who harnesses both powers from the light and the dark.

    Then you do not understand star wars - it was Anakin that fulfilled the prophecy. The prophecy was of the force, not for the jedi or sith - the Jedi made it "their" prophecy, which is why they believed it was misread as they could not fathom that the prophecy included their own demise.

    Luke was not the chosen one, not did he fulfill the prophecy - Anakin did.

    Luke had learned from his own experiences - how his father fell to the darkside and why the jedi were wrong. He was to pass on to others what he learned - not what he was taught. The jedi were wrong.

    But you said Luke balanced the force? But I thought Anakin fulfilled the prophecy to balance the force? If Luke learned all these things and was a capable teacher, than the Force should still be good and balanced. Luke taught Rey, and it definitely wasn't the traditional Jedi teachings or how great being a Jedi is. Based on these teachings from the poster boy for this "new breed of Jedi", Rey should be able to forge her own path forward without being tied to the ideals of a long dead fanatical group. But we will not know for sure until a potential future trilogy re-writes everything we know.

    I understand Star wars just fine, it is a space-fantasy version of the constant struggle between good and evil that persists through a large proportion of stories in human history. This one just happens to be between two fanatical religious groups that can harness the power of the world around them.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.

    The whole point of Luke's character in the OT in the context after the release of the PT is that the force had been re-balanced and Luke was going to create a new generation of Jedi, aware of the Republic's era of Jedi's faults, including their training.

    Regardless of what they did to Luke's character in the ST, Rey ends up in the exact same position as Luke did in ROTJ - nothing has been added to the story of star wars with this new trilogy, that's my point.

    Rey has just become the new Luke and will be training the next generation of Jedi going forward - this trilogy was pointless.

    The force cannot be balanced with only the light existing. That is not how balance works.

    Also, we do not know that Rey is setting out to train a new generation of Jedi, unless that is somewhere in the books that I have not read. If she has learned from the past three movies, which I believe was signified by the burying of the lightsabers, then she will not set out to rebuild the Jedi. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, maybe she will try and forge a new path of force sensitives that completely ignores the teachings of a flawed and corrupt cult. Who knows, thats for a hypothetical future trilogy to address.

    Yet Rey embodied all the Jedi and stood as a Jedi at the end of TROS.

    If you did not understand how the force was balanced with Luke at the end of ROTJ - then you didn't understand star wars at all.

    i understand how Luke fulfilled a prophecy for a cult of extemists who believe they are always right, but that does not equal balance in the Force between light and dark. Unless you are calling Luke not a Light side jedi, but rather a neutral force user who harnesses both powers from the light and the dark.

    Then you do not understand star wars - it was Anakin that fulfilled the prophecy. The prophecy was of the force, not for the jedi or sith - the Jedi made it "their" prophecy, which is why they believed it was misread as they could not fathom that the prophecy included their own demise.

    Luke was not the chosen one, not did he fulfill the prophecy - Anakin did.

    Luke had learned from his own experiences - how his father fell to the darkside and why the jedi were wrong. He was to pass on to others what he learned - not what he was taught. The jedi were wrong.

    But you said Luke balanced the force? But I thought Anakin fulfilled the prophecy to balance the force? If Luke learned all these things and was a capable teacher, than the Force should still be good and balanced. Luke taught Rey, and it definitely wasn't the traditional Jedi teachings or how great being a Jedi is. Based on these teachings from the poster boy for this "new breed of Jedi", Rey should be able to forge her own path forward without being tied to the ideals of a long dead fanatical group. But we will not know for sure until a potential future trilogy re-writes everything we know.

    I understand Star wars just fine, it is a space-fantasy version of the constant struggle between good and evil that persists through a large proportion of stories in human history. This one just happens to be between two fanatical religious groups that can harness the power of the world around them.

    I never said Luke balanced the force at all - all I said was through the lessons learned the force was balanced with him going forward. Anakin was the one who balanced it. It was Anakin's story that taught Luke.

    Luke didn't really teach Rey anything, other than no one is entitled to the force, the force just is, both dark and light. That is all he "taught" Rey.

    Let's say the force is now balanced with Rey, then we get another trilogy, where Rey wants to kill a child and hermits herself away and the whole thing repeats - what does that do for the overall story? Nothing. The story was told between E1-6 and the ST adds nothing to the saga. It adds nothing.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.

    The whole point of Luke's character in the OT in the context after the release of the PT is that the force had been re-balanced and Luke was going to create a new generation of Jedi, aware of the Republic's era of Jedi's faults, including their training.

    Regardless of what they did to Luke's character in the ST, Rey ends up in the exact same position as Luke did in ROTJ - nothing has been added to the story of star wars with this new trilogy, that's my point.

    Rey has just become the new Luke and will be training the next generation of Jedi going forward - this trilogy was pointless.

    The force cannot be balanced with only the light existing. That is not how balance works.

    Also, we do not know that Rey is setting out to train a new generation of Jedi, unless that is somewhere in the books that I have not read. If she has learned from the past three movies, which I believe was signified by the burying of the lightsabers, then she will not set out to rebuild the Jedi. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, maybe she will try and forge a new path of force sensitives that completely ignores the teachings of a flawed and corrupt cult. Who knows, thats for a hypothetical future trilogy to address.

    Yet Rey embodied all the Jedi and stood as a Jedi at the end of TROS.

    If you did not understand how the force was balanced with Luke at the end of ROTJ - then you didn't understand star wars at all.

    i understand how Luke fulfilled a prophecy for a cult of extemists who believe they are always right, but that does not equal balance in the Force between light and dark. Unless you are calling Luke not a Light side jedi, but rather a neutral force user who harnesses both powers from the light and the dark.

    Then you do not understand star wars - it was Anakin that fulfilled the prophecy. The prophecy was of the force, not for the jedi or sith - the Jedi made it "their" prophecy, which is why they believed it was misread as they could not fathom that the prophecy included their own demise.

    Luke was not the chosen one, not did he fulfill the prophecy - Anakin did.

    Luke had learned from his own experiences - how his father fell to the darkside and why the jedi were wrong. He was to pass on to others what he learned - not what he was taught. The jedi were wrong.

    But you said Luke balanced the force? But I thought Anakin fulfilled the prophecy to balance the force? If Luke learned all these things and was a capable teacher, than the Force should still be good and balanced. Luke taught Rey, and it definitely wasn't the traditional Jedi teachings or how great being a Jedi is. Based on these teachings from the poster boy for this "new breed of Jedi", Rey should be able to forge her own path forward without being tied to the ideals of a long dead fanatical group. But we will not know for sure until a potential future trilogy re-writes everything we know.

    I understand Star wars just fine, it is a space-fantasy version of the constant struggle between good and evil that persists through a large proportion of stories in human history. This one just happens to be between two fanatical religious groups that can harness the power of the world around them.

    I never said Luke balanced the force at all - all I said was through the lessons learned the force was balanced with him going forward. Anakin was the one who balanced it. It was Anakin's story that taught Luke.

    Luke didn't really teach Rey anything, other than no one is entitled to the force, the force just is, both dark and light. That is all he "taught" Rey.

    Let's say the force is now balanced with Rey, then we get another trilogy, where Rey wants to kill a child and hermits herself away and the whole thing repeats - what does that do for the overall story? Nothing. The story was told between E1-6 and the ST adds nothing to the saga. It adds nothing.

    so all he taught Rey is exactly what you say he learned in the OT? If Luke was supposed to go forward and teach a new type of Jedi that embraced the force without the corrupting teachings of the light or dark side fanatics, it seems he succeeded.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.

    The whole point of Luke's character in the OT in the context after the release of the PT is that the force had been re-balanced and Luke was going to create a new generation of Jedi, aware of the Republic's era of Jedi's faults, including their training.

    Regardless of what they did to Luke's character in the ST, Rey ends up in the exact same position as Luke did in ROTJ - nothing has been added to the story of star wars with this new trilogy, that's my point.

    Rey has just become the new Luke and will be training the next generation of Jedi going forward - this trilogy was pointless.

    The force cannot be balanced with only the light existing. That is not how balance works.

    Also, we do not know that Rey is setting out to train a new generation of Jedi, unless that is somewhere in the books that I have not read. If she has learned from the past three movies, which I believe was signified by the burying of the lightsabers, then she will not set out to rebuild the Jedi. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, maybe she will try and forge a new path of force sensitives that completely ignores the teachings of a flawed and corrupt cult. Who knows, thats for a hypothetical future trilogy to address.

    Yet Rey embodied all the Jedi and stood as a Jedi at the end of TROS.

    If you did not understand how the force was balanced with Luke at the end of ROTJ - then you didn't understand star wars at all.

    i understand how Luke fulfilled a prophecy for a cult of extemists who believe they are always right, but that does not equal balance in the Force between light and dark. Unless you are calling Luke not a Light side jedi, but rather a neutral force user who harnesses both powers from the light and the dark.

    Then you do not understand star wars - it was Anakin that fulfilled the prophecy. The prophecy was of the force, not for the jedi or sith - the Jedi made it "their" prophecy, which is why they believed it was misread as they could not fathom that the prophecy included their own demise.

    Luke was not the chosen one, not did he fulfill the prophecy - Anakin did.

    Luke had learned from his own experiences - how his father fell to the darkside and why the jedi were wrong. He was to pass on to others what he learned - not what he was taught. The jedi were wrong.

    But you said Luke balanced the force? But I thought Anakin fulfilled the prophecy to balance the force? If Luke learned all these things and was a capable teacher, than the Force should still be good and balanced. Luke taught Rey, and it definitely wasn't the traditional Jedi teachings or how great being a Jedi is. Based on these teachings from the poster boy for this "new breed of Jedi", Rey should be able to forge her own path forward without being tied to the ideals of a long dead fanatical group. But we will not know for sure until a potential future trilogy re-writes everything we know.

    I understand Star wars just fine, it is a space-fantasy version of the constant struggle between good and evil that persists through a large proportion of stories in human history. This one just happens to be between two fanatical religious groups that can harness the power of the world around them.

    I never said Luke balanced the force at all - all I said was through the lessons learned the force was balanced with him going forward. Anakin was the one who balanced it. It was Anakin's story that taught Luke.

    Luke didn't really teach Rey anything, other than no one is entitled to the force, the force just is, both dark and light. That is all he "taught" Rey.

    Let's say the force is now balanced with Rey, then we get another trilogy, where Rey wants to kill a child and hermits herself away and the whole thing repeats - what does that do for the overall story? Nothing. The story was told between E1-6 and the ST adds nothing to the saga. It adds nothing.

    so all he taught Rey is exactly what you say he learned in the OT? If Luke was supposed to go forward and teach a new type of Jedi that embraced the force without the corrupting teachings of the light or dark side fanatics, it seems he succeeded.

    I agree there is that - but what he was really teaching her is why she shouldn't bother to become a Jedi. Quite different once you take that into account.
  • I think the best part of all of this is how bad the movies did to portray what they wanted. If they did a better job we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Too much of left open for each persons interpretation.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.

    The whole point of Luke's character in the OT in the context after the release of the PT is that the force had been re-balanced and Luke was going to create a new generation of Jedi, aware of the Republic's era of Jedi's faults, including their training.

    Regardless of what they did to Luke's character in the ST, Rey ends up in the exact same position as Luke did in ROTJ - nothing has been added to the story of star wars with this new trilogy, that's my point.

    Rey has just become the new Luke and will be training the next generation of Jedi going forward - this trilogy was pointless.

    The force cannot be balanced with only the light existing. That is not how balance works.

    Also, we do not know that Rey is setting out to train a new generation of Jedi, unless that is somewhere in the books that I have not read. If she has learned from the past three movies, which I believe was signified by the burying of the lightsabers, then she will not set out to rebuild the Jedi. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, maybe she will try and forge a new path of force sensitives that completely ignores the teachings of a flawed and corrupt cult. Who knows, thats for a hypothetical future trilogy to address.

    Yet Rey embodied all the Jedi and stood as a Jedi at the end of TROS.

    If you did not understand how the force was balanced with Luke at the end of ROTJ - then you didn't understand star wars at all.

    i understand how Luke fulfilled a prophecy for a cult of extemists who believe they are always right, but that does not equal balance in the Force between light and dark. Unless you are calling Luke not a Light side jedi, but rather a neutral force user who harnesses both powers from the light and the dark.

    Then you do not understand star wars - it was Anakin that fulfilled the prophecy. The prophecy was of the force, not for the jedi or sith - the Jedi made it "their" prophecy, which is why they believed it was misread as they could not fathom that the prophecy included their own demise.

    Luke was not the chosen one, not did he fulfill the prophecy - Anakin did.

    Luke had learned from his own experiences - how his father fell to the darkside and why the jedi were wrong. He was to pass on to others what he learned - not what he was taught. The jedi were wrong.

    But you said Luke balanced the force? But I thought Anakin fulfilled the prophecy to balance the force? If Luke learned all these things and was a capable teacher, than the Force should still be good and balanced. Luke taught Rey, and it definitely wasn't the traditional Jedi teachings or how great being a Jedi is. Based on these teachings from the poster boy for this "new breed of Jedi", Rey should be able to forge her own path forward without being tied to the ideals of a long dead fanatical group. But we will not know for sure until a potential future trilogy re-writes everything we know.

    I understand Star wars just fine, it is a space-fantasy version of the constant struggle between good and evil that persists through a large proportion of stories in human history. This one just happens to be between two fanatical religious groups that can harness the power of the world around them.

    I never said Luke balanced the force at all - all I said was through the lessons learned the force was balanced with him going forward. Anakin was the one who balanced it. It was Anakin's story that taught Luke.

    Luke didn't really teach Rey anything, other than no one is entitled to the force, the force just is, both dark and light. That is all he "taught" Rey.

    Let's say the force is now balanced with Rey, then we get another trilogy, where Rey wants to kill a child and hermits herself away and the whole thing repeats - what does that do for the overall story? Nothing. The story was told between E1-6 and the ST adds nothing to the saga. It adds nothing.

    so all he taught Rey is exactly what you say he learned in the OT? If Luke was supposed to go forward and teach a new type of Jedi that embraced the force without the corrupting teachings of the light or dark side fanatics, it seems he succeeded.

    I agree there is that - but what he was really teaching her is why she shouldn't bother to become a Jedi. Quite different once you take that into account.

    Is it though? Can you truly create a new form of Jedi without first understanding why you shouldn't become "the Jedi"? You have to understand what was wrong and why you shouldn't become them before you can truly learn from their mistakes, as Luke has supposedly done and now passed on to Rey.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    I am curious why people actually liked this trilogy - not trying to be funny, I just really don't get it.

    i enjoyed all of the movies individually, but wish they would have committed to a singular vision of the trilogy, specifically Rian's.

    JJ abrams is a great director at making flashy entertaining movies with little to no substance or original ideas. Fun to watch, but thats about it. Rian johnson actually tried to make an original star wars movie (granted imo his execution of it was poor), or atleast bring literally anything new to the franchise besides another giant superweapon or the same bad guy from 6 other movies.

    Specifically, my favorite part of the sequels might also be my favorite part of the entire universe: TLJ Luke. Through Luke we are shown once again that the Jedi aren't these all powerful superheroes that they wish they were, they are beings with faults and shortcomings who make mistakes. Luke realizes he has fallen into the same mistakes as the generations before him and learns from this. Also, the cynical/sarcastic humor is my style so that helps too.

    Yikes - I get what you are saying, but the point of Luke's character's development in the OT were that he wasn't going to fall in line with the shortcomings of prior Jedi - he was a new generation of Jedi - the EU saw this, but the ST didn't. I think that was a huge problem.

    Did Johnson try to make an original star wars movie? He gave us another hermit Jedi, another battle of Hoth, another Throne Room fight scene blah blah blah.

    All he did was try to subvert expectations and derailed the ST's story arc in the process. In my view, he was too much of a coward to actually give the franchise something actually new.

    I think his style of subverting expectations works well for a murder mystery (Knives Out) type flick, but not for a well known franchise, mid trilogy - he just didn't work in my view.

    So what? A character cannot be changed over the course of a few decades off screen based on a devastating event in their past? Luke failed as a teacher and couldn't handle it, like other jedi before him. But he is more powerful teacher to the audience than the like of yoda or Obi wan because we saw him as one who would be the super jedi, only to see him succumb to the same faults. This reinforces that the Jedi are not some perfect order and should be put to rest for the good of the galaxy. There cannot be balance in the force if there is only light.

    The whole point of Luke's character in the OT in the context after the release of the PT is that the force had been re-balanced and Luke was going to create a new generation of Jedi, aware of the Republic's era of Jedi's faults, including their training.

    Regardless of what they did to Luke's character in the ST, Rey ends up in the exact same position as Luke did in ROTJ - nothing has been added to the story of star wars with this new trilogy, that's my point.

    Rey has just become the new Luke and will be training the next generation of Jedi going forward - this trilogy was pointless.

    The force cannot be balanced with only the light existing. That is not how balance works.

    Also, we do not know that Rey is setting out to train a new generation of Jedi, unless that is somewhere in the books that I have not read. If she has learned from the past three movies, which I believe was signified by the burying of the lightsabers, then she will not set out to rebuild the Jedi. Maybe she will, maybe she won't, maybe she will try and forge a new path of force sensitives that completely ignores the teachings of a flawed and corrupt cult. Who knows, thats for a hypothetical future trilogy to address.

    Yet Rey embodied all the Jedi and stood as a Jedi at the end of TROS.

    If you did not understand how the force was balanced with Luke at the end of ROTJ - then you didn't understand star wars at all.

    i understand how Luke fulfilled a prophecy for a cult of extemists who believe they are always right, but that does not equal balance in the Force between light and dark. Unless you are calling Luke not a Light side jedi, but rather a neutral force user who harnesses both powers from the light and the dark.

    Then you do not understand star wars - it was Anakin that fulfilled the prophecy. The prophecy was of the force, not for the jedi or sith - the Jedi made it "their" prophecy, which is why they believed it was misread as they could not fathom that the prophecy included their own demise.

    Luke was not the chosen one, not did he fulfill the prophecy - Anakin did.

    Luke had learned from his own experiences - how his father fell to the darkside and why the jedi were wrong. He was to pass on to others what he learned - not what he was taught. The jedi were wrong.

    But you said Luke balanced the force? But I thought Anakin fulfilled the prophecy to balance the force? If Luke learned all these things and was a capable teacher, than the Force should still be good and balanced. Luke taught Rey, and it definitely wasn't the traditional Jedi teachings or how great being a Jedi is. Based on these teachings from the poster boy for this "new breed of Jedi", Rey should be able to forge her own path forward without being tied to the ideals of a long dead fanatical group. But we will not know for sure until a potential future trilogy re-writes everything we know.

    I understand Star wars just fine, it is a space-fantasy version of the constant struggle between good and evil that persists through a large proportion of stories in human history. This one just happens to be between two fanatical religious groups that can harness the power of the world around them.

    I never said Luke balanced the force at all - all I said was through the lessons learned the force was balanced with him going forward. Anakin was the one who balanced it. It was Anakin's story that taught Luke.

    Luke didn't really teach Rey anything, other than no one is entitled to the force, the force just is, both dark and light. That is all he "taught" Rey.

    Let's say the force is now balanced with Rey, then we get another trilogy, where Rey wants to kill a child and hermits herself away and the whole thing repeats - what does that do for the overall story? Nothing. The story was told between E1-6 and the ST adds nothing to the saga. It adds nothing.

    so all he taught Rey is exactly what you say he learned in the OT? If Luke was supposed to go forward and teach a new type of Jedi that embraced the force without the corrupting teachings of the light or dark side fanatics, it seems he succeeded.

    I agree there is that - but what he was really teaching her is why she shouldn't bother to become a Jedi. Quite different once you take that into account.

    Is it though? Can you truly create a new form of Jedi without first understanding why you shouldn't become "the Jedi"? You have to understand what was wrong and why you shouldn't become them before you can truly learn from their mistakes, as Luke has supposedly done and now passed on to Rey.

    I get what you are saying and agree. But he literally didn't want any Jedi at all - he wanted the Jedi to end and he even cut himself off from the force. He was trying to tell her that her efforts are futile - and that was wrong. I know he was the cranky hermit Luke, but like I say, that was so out of character because of the points already mentioned in our discussion in regard to how balance in the force was achieved at the end of ROTJ - The interpretation of Luke in TLJ literally threw it all away.

    Other than that he did very little to "train" her. JJ retconned this with Rey's training under Leia in TROS.

    So I wouldn't really consider Luke as Rey's master, more so Leia was Rey's master.
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    AntiFunn wrote: »
    Yeah, Leia probably did a much better job in training Rey, even if it was for less than 5 mins

    However, we don't know exactly how much time had passed between E8 and 9, or how deep their relationship was as master and apprentice.

    I appreciate we didn't need to do a whole training arc, like we got with Luke in the OT, but at least Lucas understood this with the PT and skipped ahead a decade between E1 and 2 and more years between E2 and 3 in regard to Anakin's training and development.

    Rey was just insanely good right off the bat, so my point is that JJ's retcon having Leia "train" Rey was a little too late.

    Why couldn't TLJ begin with Luke handing back Rey his old lightsaber, as she had completed her training with him between E7 and 8 - I don't think we needed to jump directly from one movie to the next with no time passing.

    As Snoke said he was to complete Kylo's training as well during this time, it would also allude to Kylo being more powerful as well. Could have set up a better dynamic between the two (Rey and Kylo) and perhaps Kylo could have taken the lead as the main villain in 9, judging by how powerful and ruthless he could have become.

    Ahhh - here I go again. So many things/opportunities they could have done with this trilogy and instead it was just wasted.
  • LordDirt
    1374 posts Member
    So now one of the failed Palpatine clones is Rey’s father? lol Just when I thought the movie couldn’t get worse.
  • TVF
    23587 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    So now one of the failed Palpatine clones is Rey’s father? lol Just when I thought the movie couldn’t get worse.

    It's not in the movie so it doesn't count/matter.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    So now one of the failed Palpatine clones is Rey’s father? lol Just when I thought the movie couldn’t get worse.

    It's not in the movie so it doesn't count/matter.

    OR DOES IT?
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  • TVF
    23587 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    So now one of the failed Palpatine clones is Rey’s father? lol Just when I thought the movie couldn’t get worse.

    It's not in the movie so it doesn't count/matter.

    OR DOES IT?

    Ur gonna have to give me some time to fase that.
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  • LordDirt
    1374 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    So now one of the failed Palpatine clones is Rey’s father? lol Just when I thought the movie couldn’t get worse.

    It's not in the movie so it doesn't count/matter.

    So only movies count? That changes a lot in the universe of Star Wars.
  • TVF
    23587 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    So now one of the failed Palpatine clones is Rey’s father? lol Just when I thought the movie couldn’t get worse.

    It's not in the movie so it doesn't count/matter.

    So only movies count? That changes a lot in the universe of Star Wars.

    To me, yes. I don't care what someone wrote in a book after the fact. Or a comic. Or on a cereal box.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
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