GAC matchmaking - supposed to be funny?

Replies

  • 0dysseusK wrote: »

    Fair enough. I admittedly offered an extreme example before that may not have been the most helpful. But I do think--and this is a matter of personal preference--that if you do well in one group, the next should be more challenging (perhaps with better rewards), and if you do poorly in one group, the next should be easier (perhaps with smaller rewards). The current mm offers no respite to the beleaguered and no greater challenge to the victors, and that would be easy to fix.

    Later rounds offer that to some degree in the form of leagues, if you do well, you tend to move up leagues ahead of those who do poorly. It doesn't necessarily have as significant effect as you'd like, but it does happen, even providing better rewards in higher leagues as you suggest.
  • 0dysseusK wrote: »

    Fair enough. I admittedly offered an extreme example before that may not have been the most helpful. But I do think--and this is a matter of personal preference--that if you do well in one group, the next should be more challenging (perhaps with better rewards), and if you do poorly in one group, the next should be easier (perhaps with smaller rewards). The current mm offers no respite to the beleaguered and no greater challenge to the victors, and that would be easy to fix.

    Later rounds offer that to some degree in the form of leagues, if you do well, you tend to move up leagues ahead of those who do poorly. It doesn't necessarily have as significant effect as you'd like, but it does happen, even providing better rewards in higher leagues as you suggest.

    That's a good point, although as you say, it only provides a little separation, mostly in the final group. At the start of the 3rd group, I'm guessing most players from 1-5 to 5-1 will be in Chromium.
  • 0dysseusK wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    Adding additional criteria for mm might make matches even more competitive, but it wouldn't address the underlying issue that on average, getting stronger doesn't help in GA, because it only yields stronger opponents.

    Match by GA first round, then by record or points within divisions after that. A 12-match tournament.

    Getting stronger in the right areas (most effective toons/squads, counters, etc) will in theory yield some matchups with people that are stronger in the wrong areas. In fact you could argue that if matchmaking were "better" then there would be no incentive to be smart about your choices.

    What I'm suggesting would still give an advantage to the players making the best choices. It just would make it so players who decide to max their favorite faction don't thereby doom themselves to always losing in GA. (I haven't done that, but I have some sympathy for those who do). They might struggle to do better than 4-8, but they wouldn't necessarily lose just because they maxed Ewoks while everyone else with the same top-80 GP was maxing Clones.

    What you’re suggesting is the most complicated algorithm ever created that would still not produce the results you want.

    Lol. What's so complicated about a first-group match based on top-80 GP, then matching by record within division after that? My basic concern with the current mm is that improving any top-80 toon above their sweet spot on a player's gear/relic spectrum will likely yield worse GA results than doing nothing at all. And the remedy to that is simple, would help the best players rise to the top, and would mean fewer competitive players finishing with a winning percentage under 25%.

    I just don’t think the results you’re looking for are going to happen with such simple matchmaking. If you’re competitive, you don’t have a winning percentage below 25%. Plus, if you’re gearing Ewoks and Jawas over clones and SE for fun, you’re not a competitive GAC player. Which is totally fine, just don’t expect to win in GAC and don’t complain about matchmaking. Have your fun and know some aspects of the game aren’t designed for you.

    Fair enough. I admittedly offered an extreme example before that may not have been the most helpful. But I do think--and this is a matter of personal preference--that if you do well in one group, the next should be more challenging (perhaps with better rewards), and if you do poorly in one group, the next should be easier (perhaps with smaller rewards). The current mm offers no respite to the beleaguered and no greater challenge to the victors, and that would be easy to fix.

    Are you thinking of regular GA instead of GAC? Because if you keep winning, you match up with other players who have scored a similar amount of points. And if you keep losing, you stay in the bottom division(s) with players who have also continued to lose. If you lose all twelve of your matches, matchmaking isn't the issue since the only people in carbonite in week 4 should be people wanting to get "trapped in carbonite".
  • 0dysseusK wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    Adding additional criteria for mm might make matches even more competitive, but it wouldn't address the underlying issue that on average, getting stronger doesn't help in GA, because it only yields stronger opponents.

    Match by GA first round, then by record or points within divisions after that. A 12-match tournament.

    Getting stronger in the right areas (most effective toons/squads, counters, etc) will in theory yield some matchups with people that are stronger in the wrong areas. In fact you could argue that if matchmaking were "better" then there would be no incentive to be smart about your choices.

    What I'm suggesting would still give an advantage to the players making the best choices. It just would make it so players who decide to max their favorite faction don't thereby doom themselves to always losing in GA. (I haven't done that, but I have some sympathy for those who do). They might struggle to do better than 4-8, but they wouldn't necessarily lose just because they maxed Ewoks while everyone else with the same top-80 GP was maxing Clones.

    What you’re suggesting is the most complicated algorithm ever created that would still not produce the results you want.

    Lol. What's so complicated about a first-group match based on top-80 GP, then matching by record within division after that? My basic concern with the current mm is that improving any top-80 toon above their sweet spot on a player's gear/relic spectrum will likely yield worse GA results than doing nothing at all. And the remedy to that is simple, would help the best players rise to the top, and would mean fewer competitive players finishing with a winning percentage under 25%.

    I just don’t think the results you’re looking for are going to happen with such simple matchmaking. If you’re competitive, you don’t have a winning percentage below 25%. Plus, if you’re gearing Ewoks and Jawas over clones and SE for fun, you’re not a competitive GAC player. Which is totally fine, just don’t expect to win in GAC and don’t complain about matchmaking. Have your fun and know some aspects of the game aren’t designed for you.

    Fair enough. I admittedly offered an extreme example before that may not have been the most helpful. But I do think--and this is a matter of personal preference--that if you do well in one group, the next should be more challenging (perhaps with better rewards), and if you do poorly in one group, the next should be easier (perhaps with smaller rewards). The current mm offers no respite to the beleaguered and no greater challenge to the victors, and that would be easy to fix.

    Are you thinking of regular GA instead of GAC? Because if you keep winning, you match up with other players who have scored a similar amount of points. And if you keep losing, you stay in the bottom division(s) with players who have also continued to lose. If you lose all twelve of your matches, matchmaking isn't the issue since the only people in carbonite in week 4 should be people wanting to get "trapped in carbonite".

    Sure, lol. But I'm thinking more about the vast majority of players that are somewhere in the middle. Since most players will be in Bronzium after week 1 and Chromium after week 2, the leagues only offer significant separation in the Chromium/Aurodium divide in the final week.
  • Starl0rd
    77 posts Member
    edited February 10
    going to risk commenting here, but w/e..

    always check your opponents roster before putting down defense. if your roster doesn't support battling against what you consider to be a stronger roster, hold your better teams for offense. there is a difference in utilizing g9-g12 for defense, and using them for offense. you also need to develop counters to popular teams, in addition, you need to research counter teams so you're sure what you're investing your resources and time into. this game is intentional and you have choices to make which will bear consequences/benefits. if you can't win against your opponent(s), your next matchup should be aligned based on how you ranked. if you keep losing, you'll find that sweet spot where you belong.

    be sure to honestly evaluate your gameplay/roster if winning is important to you. you'll find that your roster and/or strategy might need changing.

    EDIT* wanted to point out what another person said in this thread, that there are relic'd squads that you simply need counters for, roster depth will not take them down. this is a hurdle for many...
    Post edited by Starl0rd on
  • 0dysseusK wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    Adding additional criteria for mm might make matches even more competitive, but it wouldn't address the underlying issue that on average, getting stronger doesn't help in GA, because it only yields stronger opponents.

    Match by GA first round, then by record or points within divisions after that. A 12-match tournament.

    Getting stronger in the right areas (most effective toons/squads, counters, etc) will in theory yield some matchups with people that are stronger in the wrong areas. In fact you could argue that if matchmaking were "better" then there would be no incentive to be smart about your choices.

    What I'm suggesting would still give an advantage to the players making the best choices. It just would make it so players who decide to max their favorite faction don't thereby doom themselves to always losing in GA. (I haven't done that, but I have some sympathy for those who do). They might struggle to do better than 4-8, but they wouldn't necessarily lose just because they maxed Ewoks while everyone else with the same top-80 GP was maxing Clones.

    What you’re suggesting is the most complicated algorithm ever created that would still not produce the results you want.

    Lol. What's so complicated about a first-group match based on top-80 GP, then matching by record within division after that? My basic concern with the current mm is that improving any top-80 toon above their sweet spot on a player's gear/relic spectrum will likely yield worse GA results than doing nothing at all. And the remedy to that is simple, would help the best players rise to the top, and would mean fewer competitive players finishing with a winning percentage under 25%.

    I just don’t think the results you’re looking for are going to happen with such simple matchmaking. If you’re competitive, you don’t have a winning percentage below 25%. Plus, if you’re gearing Ewoks and Jawas over clones and SE for fun, you’re not a competitive GAC player. Which is totally fine, just don’t expect to win in GAC and don’t complain about matchmaking. Have your fun and know some aspects of the game aren’t designed for you.

    Fair enough. I admittedly offered an extreme example before that may not have been the most helpful. But I do think--and this is a matter of personal preference--that if you do well in one group, the next should be more challenging (perhaps with better rewards), and if you do poorly in one group, the next should be easier (perhaps with smaller rewards). The current mm offers no respite to the beleaguered and no greater challenge to the victors, and that would be easy to fix.

    Are you thinking of regular GA instead of GAC? Because if you keep winning, you match up with other players who have scored a similar amount of points. And if you keep losing, you stay in the bottom division(s) with players who have also continued to lose. If you lose all twelve of your matches, matchmaking isn't the issue since the only people in carbonite in week 4 should be people wanting to get "trapped in carbonite".

    Sure, lol. But I'm thinking more about the vast majority of players that are somewhere in the middle. Since most players will be in Bronzium after week 1 and Chromium after week 2, the leagues only offer significant separation in the Chromium/Aurodium divide in the final week.

    Hm, almost like a bell curve....
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »

    Not getting matched with somebody who has a R7 Malak does not guarantee a win for me.
    Getting matched with somebody who has a R7 Malak does guarantee a loss for me.

    So if you are using my quote to make the point my idea of mm improvement is “let me win” then you must have skipped or ignored the many posts I made with reasonable suggestions what other factors should be included in mm.

    What was your argument again against changing mm? “It’s fine” and “I win every match”?

    Then you should probably work on something that counters an R7 Malak. He's been about for almost a year now, if you still have no way to combat it, it is beyond your own fault and you must have as hard a time in arena as you do GAC. As for changing it, you haven't provided a solution, every post I speak to you I ask for one and you simply don't reply, so let's see if anything changes here. Also the suggestions you made a week ago aren't worth parroting, they were shot down by people pointing out they would be detrimental then, that is still the case now.

    @thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you @TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »

    Not getting matched with somebody who has a R7 Malak does not guarantee a win for me.
    Getting matched with somebody who has a R7 Malak does guarantee a loss for me.

    So if you are using my quote to make the point my idea of mm improvement is “let me win” then you must have skipped or ignored the many posts I made with reasonable suggestions what other factors should be included in mm.

    What was your argument again against changing mm? “It’s fine” and “I win every match”?

    Then you should probably work on something that counters an R7 Malak. He's been about for almost a year now, if you still have no way to combat it, it is beyond your own fault and you must have as hard a time in arena as you do GAC. As for changing it, you haven't provided a solution, every post I speak to you I ask for one and you simply don't reply, so let's see if anything changes here. Also the suggestions you made a week ago aren't worth parroting, they were shot down by people pointing out they would be detrimental then, that is still the case now.

    @thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you @TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Nah, just the people who realized that having a counter to a meta is important.

    And no, having a meta counter is not the same as being outmatched by 3 m gp. Nice try though.

    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    He's not asking for a lot. Something like +/- 10% variance between g12 and g13 toons that a group has would be a good start. And I'm not sure you guys understand, if you have your roster (nothing you can change about past mistakes) when you build counters it does increase your gp which leads to stronger opponents where they have an extra squad that you probably now can't counter. You may not have experienced this so think it's not true but that doesn't make you right.....
  • Waqui
    7633 posts Member
    Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    He's not asking for a lot. Something like +/- 10% variance between g12 and g13 toons that a group has would be a good start. And I'm not sure you guys understand, if you have your roster (nothing you can change about past mistakes) when you build counters it does increase your gp which leads to stronger opponents where they have an extra squad that you probably now can't counter. You may not have experienced this so think it's not true but that doesn't make you right.....

    I have experienced this. However, I still believe, that MM shouldn't match based on amount of g12 / g13 characters. Players, who have an advantage earned that advantage.

    As long as you only gear up strong characters that are useful to defend against or counter others strong teams in GA, you improve your roster and chances to win. However, if your current roster is too weak, don't expect to turn it around in one month, but keep going and you will see the improvement later.
  • KyoO1234
    270 posts Member
    edited February 11
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a saint):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...
    Post edited by KyoO1234 on
  • Waqui
    7633 posts Member
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



  • Saada
    435 posts Member
    edited February 11
    Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    Firstly going into the g12/13, people don't deserve that advantage cause other wise you should just match a 3mil account with a 3mil account even if the g13 is 35 to 5.'.. secondly if you do win when someone has both revans while you have none that says nothing about matchmaking being correct. It just means that person has no idea what they're doing and as an opponent you need to rely on luck (Your opponent doing something stupid like keeping both for offence) to win which shows that match making isn't right if the only hope you have to win is relying on your opponent to make a mistake....
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    I'd really like to see some snippet of your C+ code... Actually, I bet anyone familiar with coding would like to see C+. Maybe it's the missing link of the coding world! (You didn't justify yourself at all, but you definitely bolstered the argument that you have no idea what it would take to code your "solution").

    1) What happens if someone gears up toons and but doesn't apply zetas to those squads? Now they get matched against similarly geared squads but will be behind the eight-ball because they don't have the right zetas. Should we take zetas into account too? At what point does this becoming fighting a carbon copy of your roster and then blaming RNG because there's nothing else to blame? (hint: 50% of players will be happy with matchmaking, 50% won't. Unless you give out a participation award equal to first place, which it seems like you'd really enjoy, there will always be a loser).

    2) You persistently fail to understand that match making is supposed to give you a shot at a roster that has a similar relevant GP. GAC is no different than any other mode in this game. Want to do well? Make good choices. Don't care about doing well? Do whatever you want. There's no way a sane, intelligent individual (such as yourself) could reasonably expect to make whatever choices they want and still be competitive. That's like working on your jumper and complaining you can't score a goal in your indoor soccer league (or maybe a better analogy would be working on "dribbling" and then not understanding why those basketball drills aren't helping more for soccer). Even in your scenario of matching up based on GP and gear and meta toons and mods and lack of skill, someone will lose. Do you think players would be happier blaming the ghost of RNGesus instead of blaming something tangible like Malak or GAS?

    3) Your third point is simply wrong. If there is a known counter for a team and you've completely ignored working on that counter, that's entirely your fault. Actions have consequences. You don't have to be at a significant disadvantage just because you lack one character. But if you choose to? There's no reason to make concessions for people that refuse to acknowledge the truth. Which is ironic considering your entire argument is founded on refusing to acknowledge that counters work and then choosing to not work on them because, somehow, working on a counter would catapult you into other matches where you might not have a counter (hint: most teams have multiple counters. If you can't increase your GP by a small fraction of your total without facing a team you can't beat, you have much worse problems than match making).

  • Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    1) Including gear levels in addition to GP would make a significant difference since the current power increase from G11 to G12 to G13 is not reflected in a way that would drive the mm. Especially if you are matching top 80 toons this is an issue I have seen multiple times.

    2) I am not asking for identical strength, but similar. Mm exclusively based on GP fails to deliver this. I also don’t buy the point of no incentive for roster development. GAC is only one of many aspects of the game (and the rewards even for 1st place are not great). So there is still more than enough incentive for people to develop their rosters.

    3) If what you day is true then your opponent must have made some significant mistakes. (like placing too weak teams behind the defenses he thought you couldn’t breach). But relying on the mistakes of your opponents is not a viable strategy.
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    I'd really like to see some snippet of your C+ code... Actually, I bet anyone familiar with coding would like to see C+. Maybe it's the missing link of the coding world! (You didn't justify yourself at all, but you definitely bolstered the argument that you have no idea what it would take to code your "solution").

    1) What happens if someone gears up toons and but doesn't apply zetas to those squads? Now they get matched against similarly geared squads but will be behind the eight-ball because they don't have the right zetas. Should we take zetas into account too? At what point does this becoming fighting a carbon copy of your roster and then blaming RNG because there's nothing else to blame? (hint: 50% of players will be happy with matchmaking, 50% won't. Unless you give out a participation award equal to first place, which it seems like you'd really enjoy, there will always be a loser).

    2) You persistently fail to understand that match making is supposed to give you a shot at a roster that has a similar relevant GP. GAC is no different than any other mode in this game. Want to do well? Make good choices. Don't care about doing well? Do whatever you want. There's no way a sane, intelligent individual (such as yourself) could reasonably expect to make whatever choices they want and still be competitive. That's like working on your jumper and complaining you can't score a goal in your indoor soccer league (or maybe a better analogy would be working on "dribbling" and then not understanding why those basketball drills aren't helping more for soccer). Even in your scenario of matching up based on GP and gear and meta toons and mods and lack of skill, someone will lose. Do you think players would be happier blaming the ghost of RNGesus instead of blaming something tangible like Malak or GAS?

    3) Your third point is simply wrong. If there is a known counter for a team and you've completely ignored working on that counter, that's entirely your fault. Actions have consequences. You don't have to be at a significant disadvantage just because you lack one character. But if you choose to? There's no reason to make concessions for people that refuse to acknowledge the truth. Which is ironic considering your entire argument is founded on refusing to acknowledge that counters work and then choosing to not work on them because, somehow, working on a counter would catapult you into other matches where you might not have a counter (hint: most teams have multiple counters. If you can't increase your GP by a small fraction of your total without facing a team you can't beat, you have much worse problems than match making).

    Ok, just briefly (this time for real)
    1) Irrelevant. Whataboutism. Doesn’t change the positive effect that gear level consideration would have on mm.
    2) Wrong. “Whale harder” argument. GAC is not arena.
    3) Reliable GAC counter? “Whale harder” argument...again.

    I read nothing about how my suggested improvements would make mm worse instead of better. Next.
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    I'd really like to see some snippet of your C+ code... Actually, I bet anyone familiar with coding would like to see C+. Maybe it's the missing link of the coding world! (You didn't justify yourself at all, but you definitely bolstered the argument that you have no idea what it would take to code your "solution").

    1) What happens if someone gears up toons and but doesn't apply zetas to those squads? Now they get matched against similarly geared squads but will be behind the eight-ball because they don't have the right zetas. Should we take zetas into account too? At what point does this becoming fighting a carbon copy of your roster and then blaming RNG because there's nothing else to blame? (hint: 50% of players will be happy with matchmaking, 50% won't. Unless you give out a participation award equal to first place, which it seems like you'd really enjoy, there will always be a loser).

    2) You persistently fail to understand that match making is supposed to give you a shot at a roster that has a similar relevant GP. GAC is no different than any other mode in this game. Want to do well? Make good choices. Don't care about doing well? Do whatever you want. There's no way a sane, intelligent individual (such as yourself) could reasonably expect to make whatever choices they want and still be competitive. That's like working on your jumper and complaining you can't score a goal in your indoor soccer league (or maybe a better analogy would be working on "dribbling" and then not understanding why those basketball drills aren't helping more for soccer). Even in your scenario of matching up based on GP and gear and meta toons and mods and lack of skill, someone will lose. Do you think players would be happier blaming the ghost of RNGesus instead of blaming something tangible like Malak or GAS?

    3) Your third point is simply wrong. If there is a known counter for a team and you've completely ignored working on that counter, that's entirely your fault. Actions have consequences. You don't have to be at a significant disadvantage just because you lack one character. But if you choose to? There's no reason to make concessions for people that refuse to acknowledge the truth. Which is ironic considering your entire argument is founded on refusing to acknowledge that counters work and then choosing to not work on them because, somehow, working on a counter would catapult you into other matches where you might not have a counter (hint: most teams have multiple counters. If you can't increase your GP by a small fraction of your total without facing a team you can't beat, you have much worse problems than match making).

    Ok, just briefly (this time for real)
    1) Irrelevant. Whataboutism. Doesn’t change the positive effect that gear level consideration would have on mm.
    2) Wrong. “Whale harder” argument. GAC is not arena.
    3) Reliable GAC counter? “Whale harder” argument...again.

    I read nothing about how my suggested improvements would make mm worse instead of better. Next.

    1) your suggestion is whataboutism. Doesn't change the fact that you have no proof this would affect matchmaking at all, and that definitely means you have no proof it would improve it.
    2) Wrong. "I suck let me win" argument. This is not tee-ball.
    3) See above.
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    I'd really like to see some snippet of your C+ code... Actually, I bet anyone familiar with coding would like to see C+. Maybe it's the missing link of the coding world! (You didn't justify yourself at all, but you definitely bolstered the argument that you have no idea what it would take to code your "solution").

    1) What happens if someone gears up toons and but doesn't apply zetas to those squads? Now they get matched against similarly geared squads but will be behind the eight-ball because they don't have the right zetas. Should we take zetas into account too? At what point does this becoming fighting a carbon copy of your roster and then blaming RNG because there's nothing else to blame? (hint: 50% of players will be happy with matchmaking, 50% won't. Unless you give out a participation award equal to first place, which it seems like you'd really enjoy, there will always be a loser).

    2) You persistently fail to understand that match making is supposed to give you a shot at a roster that has a similar relevant GP. GAC is no different than any other mode in this game. Want to do well? Make good choices. Don't care about doing well? Do whatever you want. There's no way a sane, intelligent individual (such as yourself) could reasonably expect to make whatever choices they want and still be competitive. That's like working on your jumper and complaining you can't score a goal in your indoor soccer league (or maybe a better analogy would be working on "dribbling" and then not understanding why those basketball drills aren't helping more for soccer). Even in your scenario of matching up based on GP and gear and meta toons and mods and lack of skill, someone will lose. Do you think players would be happier blaming the ghost of RNGesus instead of blaming something tangible like Malak or GAS?

    3) Your third point is simply wrong. If there is a known counter for a team and you've completely ignored working on that counter, that's entirely your fault. Actions have consequences. You don't have to be at a significant disadvantage just because you lack one character. But if you choose to? There's no reason to make concessions for people that refuse to acknowledge the truth. Which is ironic considering your entire argument is founded on refusing to acknowledge that counters work and then choosing to not work on them because, somehow, working on a counter would catapult you into other matches where you might not have a counter (hint: most teams have multiple counters. If you can't increase your GP by a small fraction of your total without facing a team you can't beat, you have much worse problems than match making).

    Mate come into the 30+ g13 threshold and then let me know.....

    Opponent has relicd padme more, work on padme and get her relicd then they have dr more, work on dr then low and behold they have dr with malak, work on that and guess what they have relicd gas extra. I'll get gas next time but you know what when I get him up to relics with clones, my opponents will have gl rey of kylo.

    Don't talk about things that you have no experience with....
  • Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    I'd really like to see some snippet of your C+ code... Actually, I bet anyone familiar with coding would like to see C+. Maybe it's the missing link of the coding world! (You didn't justify yourself at all, but you definitely bolstered the argument that you have no idea what it would take to code your "solution").

    1) What happens if someone gears up toons and but doesn't apply zetas to those squads? Now they get matched against similarly geared squads but will be behind the eight-ball because they don't have the right zetas. Should we take zetas into account too? At what point does this becoming fighting a carbon copy of your roster and then blaming RNG because there's nothing else to blame? (hint: 50% of players will be happy with matchmaking, 50% won't. Unless you give out a participation award equal to first place, which it seems like you'd really enjoy, there will always be a loser).

    2) You persistently fail to understand that match making is supposed to give you a shot at a roster that has a similar relevant GP. GAC is no different than any other mode in this game. Want to do well? Make good choices. Don't care about doing well? Do whatever you want. There's no way a sane, intelligent individual (such as yourself) could reasonably expect to make whatever choices they want and still be competitive. That's like working on your jumper and complaining you can't score a goal in your indoor soccer league (or maybe a better analogy would be working on "dribbling" and then not understanding why those basketball drills aren't helping more for soccer). Even in your scenario of matching up based on GP and gear and meta toons and mods and lack of skill, someone will lose. Do you think players would be happier blaming the ghost of RNGesus instead of blaming something tangible like Malak or GAS?

    3) Your third point is simply wrong. If there is a known counter for a team and you've completely ignored working on that counter, that's entirely your fault. Actions have consequences. You don't have to be at a significant disadvantage just because you lack one character. But if you choose to? There's no reason to make concessions for people that refuse to acknowledge the truth. Which is ironic considering your entire argument is founded on refusing to acknowledge that counters work and then choosing to not work on them because, somehow, working on a counter would catapult you into other matches where you might not have a counter (hint: most teams have multiple counters. If you can't increase your GP by a small fraction of your total without facing a team you can't beat, you have much worse problems than match making).

    Mate come into the 30+ g13 threshold and then let me know.....

    Opponent has relicd padme more, work on padme and get her relicd then they have dr more, work on dr then low and behold they have dr with malak, work on that and guess what they have relicd gas extra. I'll get gas next time but you know what when I get him up to relics with clones, my opponents will have gl rey of kylo.

    Don't talk about things that you have no experience with....

    You situation =/= everyone's situation. Just because you can't figure out a way to develop your roster correctly doesn't mean it's impossible.
  • KyoO1234
    270 posts Member
    edited February 11
    Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    I'd really like to see some snippet of your C+ code... Actually, I bet anyone familiar with coding would like to see C+. Maybe it's the missing link of the coding world! (You didn't justify yourself at all, but you definitely bolstered the argument that you have no idea what it would take to code your "solution").

    1) What happens if someone gears up toons and but doesn't apply zetas to those squads? Now they get matched against similarly geared squads but will be behind the eight-ball because they don't have the right zetas. Should we take zetas into account too? At what point does this becoming fighting a carbon copy of your roster and then blaming RNG because there's nothing else to blame? (hint: 50% of players will be happy with matchmaking, 50% won't. Unless you give out a participation award equal to first place, which it seems like you'd really enjoy, there will always be a loser).

    2) You persistently fail to understand that match making is supposed to give you a shot at a roster that has a similar relevant GP. GAC is no different than any other mode in this game. Want to do well? Make good choices. Don't care about doing well? Do whatever you want. There's no way a sane, intelligent individual (such as yourself) could reasonably expect to make whatever choices they want and still be competitive. That's like working on your jumper and complaining you can't score a goal in your indoor soccer league (or maybe a better analogy would be working on "dribbling" and then not understanding why those basketball drills aren't helping more for soccer). Even in your scenario of matching up based on GP and gear and meta toons and mods and lack of skill, someone will lose. Do you think players would be happier blaming the ghost of RNGesus instead of blaming something tangible like Malak or GAS?

    3) Your third point is simply wrong. If there is a known counter for a team and you've completely ignored working on that counter, that's entirely your fault. Actions have consequences. You don't have to be at a significant disadvantage just because you lack one character. But if you choose to? There's no reason to make concessions for people that refuse to acknowledge the truth. Which is ironic considering your entire argument is founded on refusing to acknowledge that counters work and then choosing to not work on them because, somehow, working on a counter would catapult you into other matches where you might not have a counter (hint: most teams have multiple counters. If you can't increase your GP by a small fraction of your total without facing a team you can't beat, you have much worse problems than match making).

    Mate come into the 30+ g13 threshold and then let me know.....

    Opponent has relicd padme more, work on padme and get her relicd then they have dr more, work on dr then low and behold they have dr with malak, work on that and guess what they have relicd gas extra. I'll get gas next time but you know what when I get him up to relics with clones, my opponents will have gl rey of kylo.

    Don't talk about things that you have no experience with....

    You situation =/= everyone's situation. Just because you can't figure out a way to develop your roster correctly doesn't mean it's impossible.

    Hey, give me a feature to reassign my resources of the last 3+ years and I am all with you.

    Regarding the other points you made in your response to me: Are you really at the point now where you just flip around my arguments no matter if it makes sense or not?

    I would elaborate, but I have to make some money now...
  • Saada
    435 posts Member
    edited February 11
    Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    I'd really like to see some snippet of your C+ code... Actually, I bet anyone familiar with coding would like to see C+. Maybe it's the missing link of the coding world! (You didn't justify yourself at all, but you definitely bolstered the argument that you have no idea what it would take to code your "solution").

    1) What happens if someone gears up toons and but doesn't apply zetas to those squads? Now they get matched against similarly geared squads but will be behind the eight-ball because they don't have the right zetas. Should we take zetas into account too? At what point does this becoming fighting a carbon copy of your roster and then blaming RNG because there's nothing else to blame? (hint: 50% of players will be happy with matchmaking, 50% won't. Unless you give out a participation award equal to first place, which it seems like you'd really enjoy, there will always be a loser).

    2) You persistently fail to understand that match making is supposed to give you a shot at a roster that has a similar relevant GP. GAC is no different than any other mode in this game. Want to do well? Make good choices. Don't care about doing well? Do whatever you want. There's no way a sane, intelligent individual (such as yourself) could reasonably expect to make whatever choices they want and still be competitive. That's like working on your jumper and complaining you can't score a goal in your indoor soccer league (or maybe a better analogy would be working on "dribbling" and then not understanding why those basketball drills aren't helping more for soccer). Even in your scenario of matching up based on GP and gear and meta toons and mods and lack of skill, someone will lose. Do you think players would be happier blaming the ghost of RNGesus instead of blaming something tangible like Malak or GAS?

    3) Your third point is simply wrong. If there is a known counter for a team and you've completely ignored working on that counter, that's entirely your fault. Actions have consequences. You don't have to be at a significant disadvantage just because you lack one character. But if you choose to? There's no reason to make concessions for people that refuse to acknowledge the truth. Which is ironic considering your entire argument is founded on refusing to acknowledge that counters work and then choosing to not work on them because, somehow, working on a counter would catapult you into other matches where you might not have a counter (hint: most teams have multiple counters. If you can't increase your GP by a small fraction of your total without facing a team you can't beat, you have much worse problems than match making).

    Mate come into the 30+ g13 threshold and then let me know.....

    Opponent has relicd padme more, work on padme and get her relicd then they have dr more, work on dr then low and behold they have dr with malak, work on that and guess what they have relicd gas extra. I'll get gas next time but you know what when I get him up to relics with clones, my opponents will have gl rey of kylo.

    Don't talk about things that you have no experience with....

    You situation =/= everyone's situation. Just because you can't figure out a way to develop your roster correctly doesn't mean it's impossible.

    Correctly 😂

    Please look me up..... there'd be a small percentage that can match my roster but because I like to finish my relics I come across people who have 20 more g13 with gas so I'm punished for completing a toon to relic 7 even if it's an important toon, dr squad, padme squad, ns squad, bh squad, jkr squad etc

    The whole talk of get a counter doesn't work if your behind already especially if it's relicd toons you have to beat cause you can't beat them with a minimal gp increase. Once you get a relicd counter up and running for an opponent that your struggling to beat in lets say this GAC, you won't get matched with that opponent you just caught up with in the next gac with but instead jump into a new group where they have some other squad that you don't have a counter for and so on. There just has to be a better idea behind match making rather than everyone saying it's fine, get counters, work on strategies etc (which by the way people were saying when the original match making was implemented) so try and understand that anyone who says it's fine, it may be fine for you but you haven't been in the countless other possibilities of others that do occur....
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently are much smarter, but here we go
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing worthless feedback here on this forum. I wish I was better (like TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is correct. I'm just being an obstinate ****.

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    I'd really like to see some snippet of your C+ code... Actually, I bet anyone familiar with coding would like to see C+. Maybe it's the missing link of the coding world! (You didn't justify yourself at all, but you definitely bolstered the argument that you have no idea what it would take to code your "solution").

    1) What happens if someone gears up toons and but doesn't apply zetas to those squads? Now they get matched against similarly geared squads but will be behind the eight-ball because they don't have the right zetas. Should we take zetas into account too? At what point does this becoming fighting a carbon copy of your roster and then blaming RNG because there's nothing else to blame? (hint: 50% of players will be happy with matchmaking, 50% won't. Unless you give out a participation award equal to first place, which it seems like you'd really enjoy, there will always be a loser).

    2) You persistently fail to understand that match making is supposed to give you a shot at a roster that has a similar relevant GP. GAC is no different than any other mode in this game. Want to do well? Make good choices. Don't care about doing well? Do whatever you want. There's no way a sane, intelligent individual (such as yourself) could reasonably expect to make whatever choices they want and still be competitive. That's like working on your jumper and complaining you can't score a goal in your indoor soccer league (or maybe a better analogy would be working on "dribbling" and then not understanding why those basketball drills aren't helping more for soccer). Even in your scenario of matching up based on GP and gear and meta toons and mods and lack of skill, someone will lose. Do you think players would be happier blaming the ghost of RNGesus instead of blaming something tangible like Malak or GAS?

    3) Your third point is simply wrong. If there is a known counter for a team and you've completely ignored working on that counter, that's entirely your fault. Actions have consequences. You don't have to be at a significant disadvantage just because you lack one character. But if you choose to? There's no reason to make concessions for people that refuse to acknowledge the truth. Which is ironic considering your entire argument is founded on refusing to acknowledge that counters work and then choosing to not work on them because, somehow, working on a counter would catapult you into other matches where you might not have a counter (hint: most teams have multiple counters. If you can't increase your GP by a small fraction of your total without facing a team you can't beat, you have much worse problems than match making).

    Mate come into the 30+ g13 threshold and then let me know.....

    Opponent has relicd padme more, work on padme and get her relicd then they have dr more, work on dr then low and behold they have dr with malak, work on that and guess what they have relicd gas extra. I'll get gas next time but you know what when I get him up to relics with clones, my opponents will have gl rey of kylo.

    Don't talk about things that you have no experience with....

    You situation =/= everyone's situation. Just because you can't figure out a way to develop your roster correctly doesn't mean it's impossible.

    Hey, give me a feature to reassign my resources of the last 3+ years and I am all with you.

    Regarding the other points you made in your response to me: Are you really at the point now where you just flip around my arguments no matter if it makes sense or not?

    I would elaborate, but I have to make some money now...

    You've been at the point of telling everyone their wrong without a shred of evidence for your own arguments for a week. But I'm glad taking the utter ridiculousness of your arguments and flipping them on you got you to admit that your own argument structure is silly and makes no sense. That's progress. (And if you have to say the phrase "I have to go make some money now"... sure, go clock in. We can wait).
    Saada wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    I'd really like to see some snippet of your C+ code... Actually, I bet anyone familiar with coding would like to see C+. Maybe it's the missing link of the coding world! (You didn't justify yourself at all, but you definitely bolstered the argument that you have no idea what it would take to code your "solution").

    1) What happens if someone gears up toons and but doesn't apply zetas to those squads? Now they get matched against similarly geared squads but will be behind the eight-ball because they don't have the right zetas. Should we take zetas into account too? At what point does this becoming fighting a carbon copy of your roster and then blaming RNG because there's nothing else to blame? (hint: 50% of players will be happy with matchmaking, 50% won't. Unless you give out a participation award equal to first place, which it seems like you'd really enjoy, there will always be a loser).

    2) You persistently fail to understand that match making is supposed to give you a shot at a roster that has a similar relevant GP. GAC is no different than any other mode in this game. Want to do well? Make good choices. Don't care about doing well? Do whatever you want. There's no way a sane, intelligent individual (such as yourself) could reasonably expect to make whatever choices they want and still be competitive. That's like working on your jumper and complaining you can't score a goal in your indoor soccer league (or maybe a better analogy would be working on "dribbling" and then not understanding why those basketball drills aren't helping more for soccer). Even in your scenario of matching up based on GP and gear and meta toons and mods and lack of skill, someone will lose. Do you think players would be happier blaming the ghost of RNGesus instead of blaming something tangible like Malak or GAS?

    3) Your third point is simply wrong. If there is a known counter for a team and you've completely ignored working on that counter, that's entirely your fault. Actions have consequences. You don't have to be at a significant disadvantage just because you lack one character. But if you choose to? There's no reason to make concessions for people that refuse to acknowledge the truth. Which is ironic considering your entire argument is founded on refusing to acknowledge that counters work and then choosing to not work on them because, somehow, working on a counter would catapult you into other matches where you might not have a counter (hint: most teams have multiple counters. If you can't increase your GP by a small fraction of your total without facing a team you can't beat, you have much worse problems than match making).

    Mate come into the 30+ g13 threshold and then let me know.....

    Opponent has relicd padme more, work on padme and get her relicd then they have dr more, work on dr then low and behold they have dr with malak, work on that and guess what they have relicd gas extra. I'll get gas next time but you know what when I get him up to relics with clones, my opponents will have gl rey of kylo.

    Don't talk about things that you have no experience with....

    You situation =/= everyone's situation. Just because you can't figure out a way to develop your roster correctly doesn't mean it's impossible.

    Correctly 😂

    Please look me up..... there'd be a small percentage that can match my roster but because I like to finish my relics I come across people who have 20 more g13 with gas so I'm punished for completing a toon to relic 7 even if it's an important toon, dr squad, padme squad, ns squad, bh squad, jkr squad etc

    The whole talk of get a counter doesn't work if your behind already especially if it's relicd toons you have to beat cause you can't beat them with a minimal gp increase. Once you get a relicd counter up and running for an opponent that your struggling to beat in lets say this GAC, you won't get matched with that opponent you just caught up with in the next gac with but instead jump into a new group where they have some other squad that you don't have a counter for and so on. There just has to be a better idea behind match making rather than everyone saying it's fine, get counters, work on strategies etc (which by the way people were saying when the original match making was implemented) so try and understand that anyone who says it's fine, it may be fine for you but you haven't been in the countless other possibilities of others that do occur....

    Oh I've seen your roster. And your poor choices in your GAC history.

    And you just admitted that you like taking toons to R7 whether you need to or not, which inflates your GP exponentially. So, no, you don't know how to do it correctly. If you did, you wouldn't take random BHs to R7. Or cannon fodder toons like SET. You're creating your own problem, but you think you're so smart for doing it that you fail to see why it doesn't work. (and as far as a "minimal GP increase" is concerned, taking a full team from lvl 1 to R7 is around 150k GP. At your GP, that's like 3.75%... that's pretty minimal compared to your overall GP. If you've already got the squad at G12, you're adding like 40k or 50k, which is more like 1%... that's minimal unless we're talking about production facilities that strive for >10 ppm).

    If you don't want to learn, that's your choice. But the whole system shouldn't change just because you can't figure it out.
  • Saada
    435 posts Member
    edited February 11


    Oh I've seen your roster. And your poor choices in your GAC history.

    And you just admitted that you like taking toons to R7 whether you need to or not, which inflates your GP exponentially. So, no, you don't know how to do it correctly. If you did, you wouldn't take random BHs to R7. Or cannon fodder toons like SET. You're creating your own problem, but you think you're so smart for doing it that you fail to see why it doesn't work. (and as far as a "minimal GP increase" is concerned, taking a full team from lvl 1 to R7 is around 150k GP. At your GP, that's like 3.75%... that's pretty minimal compared to your overall GP. If you've already got the squad at G12, you're adding like 40k or 50k, which is more like 1%... that's minimal unless we're talking about production facilities that strive for >10 ppm).

    If you don't want to learn, that's your choice. But the whole system shouldn't change just because you can't figure it out. [/quote]

    Pretty sure you'll have a hard time getting people to agree with with you that jango, bossk, boba and embo are random bhs to take to g13 and your motion that my ONE choice completing my bh squad to their max is a horrible decision is exactly why mm changed I'm the first place since people were punished for completing a wide variety of toons so your definitely off base in that argument.
    As for gac, did you look at what was relicd and what wasn't, my opponents relics, their speed, if I was chasing a score to beat or the squads they had on defence that I didn't bother attacking that you couldn't see? Obviously not, so maybe you should cut your losses before you start looking like a complete fool.

    Oh... and saying taking SET to r5 is a horrible decision is a perfect example of your lacking knowledge in this game. That toon helps me take 1st everyday in arena where I would probably be ranked 20-50 instead if I didn't have him. This has been going on for over a month and will continue into the near future. Now I'll let you work out the difference in Crystals that I have obtained and will continue to gather with him in my squad....but yes it's a horrible decision 😂
  • 0dysseusK wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    0dysseusK wrote: »
    Adding additional criteria for mm might make matches even more competitive, but it wouldn't address the underlying issue that on average, getting stronger doesn't help in GA, because it only yields stronger opponents.

    Match by GA first round, then by record or points within divisions after that. A 12-match tournament.

    Getting stronger in the right areas (most effective toons/squads, counters, etc) will in theory yield some matchups with people that are stronger in the wrong areas. In fact you could argue that if matchmaking were "better" then there would be no incentive to be smart about your choices.

    What I'm suggesting would still give an advantage to the players making the best choices. It just would make it so players who decide to max their favorite faction don't thereby doom themselves to always losing in GA. (I haven't done that, but I have some sympathy for those who do). They might struggle to do better than 4-8, but they wouldn't necessarily lose just because they maxed Ewoks while everyone else with the same top-80 GP was maxing Clones.

    What you’re suggesting is the most complicated algorithm ever created that would still not produce the results you want.

    Lol. What's so complicated about a first-group match based on top-80 GP, then matching by record within division after that? My basic concern with the current mm is that improving any top-80 toon above their sweet spot on a player's gear/relic spectrum will likely yield worse GA results than doing nothing at all. And the remedy to that is simple, would help the best players rise to the top, and would mean fewer competitive players finishing with a winning percentage under 25%.

    I just don’t think the results you’re looking for are going to happen with such simple matchmaking. If you’re competitive, you don’t have a winning percentage below 25%. Plus, if you’re gearing Ewoks and Jawas over clones and SE for fun, you’re not a competitive GAC player. Which is totally fine, just don’t expect to win in GAC and don’t complain about matchmaking. Have your fun and know some aspects of the game aren’t designed for you.

    Fair enough. I admittedly offered an extreme example before that may not have been the most helpful. But I do think--and this is a matter of personal preference--that if you do well in one group, the next should be more challenging (perhaps with better rewards), and if you do poorly in one group, the next should be easier (perhaps with smaller rewards). The current mm offers no respite to the beleaguered and no greater challenge to the victors, and that would be easy to fix.

    Are you thinking of regular GA instead of GAC? Because if you keep winning, you match up with other players who have scored a similar amount of points. And if you keep losing, you stay in the bottom division(s) with players who have also continued to lose. If you lose all twelve of your matches, matchmaking isn't the issue since the only people in carbonite in week 4 should be people wanting to get "trapped in carbonite".

    This is not true. You are matched within leagues. That is all. At the end of week 2, a player that is 1-5 could be in Chromium along with the top scorers in the game sitting at 6-0. For League separation to be a meaningful differentiator, there need to be either more leagues or a higher bar for entry into Bronzium / Chromium.
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently are much smarter, but here we go
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing worthless feedback here on this forum. I wish I was better (like TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is correct. I'm just being an obstinate ****.

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    I'd really like to see some snippet of your C+ code... Actually, I bet anyone familiar with coding would like to see C+. Maybe it's the missing link of the coding world! (You didn't justify yourself at all, but you definitely bolstered the argument that you have no idea what it would take to code your "solution").

    1) What happens if someone gears up toons and but doesn't apply zetas to those squads? Now they get matched against similarly geared squads but will be behind the eight-ball because they don't have the right zetas. Should we take zetas into account too? At what point does this becoming fighting a carbon copy of your roster and then blaming RNG because there's nothing else to blame? (hint: 50% of players will be happy with matchmaking, 50% won't. Unless you give out a participation award equal to first place, which it seems like you'd really enjoy, there will always be a loser).

    2) You persistently fail to understand that match making is supposed to give you a shot at a roster that has a similar relevant GP. GAC is no different than any other mode in this game. Want to do well? Make good choices. Don't care about doing well? Do whatever you want. There's no way a sane, intelligent individual (such as yourself) could reasonably expect to make whatever choices they want and still be competitive. That's like working on your jumper and complaining you can't score a goal in your indoor soccer league (or maybe a better analogy would be working on "dribbling" and then not understanding why those basketball drills aren't helping more for soccer). Even in your scenario of matching up based on GP and gear and meta toons and mods and lack of skill, someone will lose. Do you think players would be happier blaming the ghost of RNGesus instead of blaming something tangible like Malak or GAS?

    3) Your third point is simply wrong. If there is a known counter for a team and you've completely ignored working on that counter, that's entirely your fault. Actions have consequences. You don't have to be at a significant disadvantage just because you lack one character. But if you choose to? There's no reason to make concessions for people that refuse to acknowledge the truth. Which is ironic considering your entire argument is founded on refusing to acknowledge that counters work and then choosing to not work on them because, somehow, working on a counter would catapult you into other matches where you might not have a counter (hint: most teams have multiple counters. If you can't increase your GP by a small fraction of your total without facing a team you can't beat, you have much worse problems than match making).

    Mate come into the 30+ g13 threshold and then let me know.....

    Opponent has relicd padme more, work on padme and get her relicd then they have dr more, work on dr then low and behold they have dr with malak, work on that and guess what they have relicd gas extra. I'll get gas next time but you know what when I get him up to relics with clones, my opponents will have gl rey of kylo.

    Don't talk about things that you have no experience with....

    You situation =/= everyone's situation. Just because you can't figure out a way to develop your roster correctly doesn't mean it's impossible.

    Hey, give me a feature to reassign my resources of the last 3+ years and I am all with you.

    Regarding the other points you made in your response to me: Are you really at the point now where you just flip around my arguments no matter if it makes sense or not?

    I would elaborate, but I have to make some money now...

    You've been at the point of telling everyone their wrong without a shred of evidence for your own arguments for a week. But I'm glad taking the utter ridiculousness of your arguments and flipping them on you got you to admit that your own argument structure is silly and makes no sense. That's progress. (And if you have to say the phrase "I have to go make some money now"... sure, go clock in. We can wait).

    Did you even read the argument I was making? Did you understand what I wrote?
    I explained why I think including additional factors like gear level, mods and meta toons into the existing GP mm would lead to better mm results.

    And your response to that is basically: “I don’t care because I’m on the winning side, so suck it up and whale harder” except that even this is not a solution to the problem.

    Overall it appears that you are getting a little too emotional here. So let me share this fitting classic quote by one of our all time favorite characters:
    "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    1) Including gear levels in addition to GP would make a significant difference since the current power increase from G11 to G12 to G13 is not reflected in a way that would drive the mm. Especially if you are matching top 80 toons this is an issue I have seen multiple times.

    2) I am not asking for identical strength, but similar. Mm exclusively based on GP fails to deliver this. I also don’t buy the point of no incentive for roster development. GAC is only one of many aspects of the game (and the rewards even for 1st place are not great). So there is still more than enough incentive for people to develop their rosters.

    3) If what you day is true then your opponent must have made some significant mistakes. (like placing too weak teams behind the defenses he thought you couldn’t breach). But relying on the mistakes of your opponents is not a viable strategy.

    Serious question: Why do you think mm is broken? What is the reason?

    Also, why do you think that relying on the mistakes of your opponent is not a viable strategy? That is basically what setting a defense is all about: determining how to arrange you teams in such a way that you can get your opponent to fail.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • AvatarofCynicism
    435 posts Member
    edited February 11
    Saada wrote: »

    Oh I've seen your roster. And your poor choices in your GAC history.

    And you just admitted that you like taking toons to R7 whether you need to or not, which inflates your GP exponentially. So, no, you don't know how to do it correctly. If you did, you wouldn't take random BHs to R7. Or cannon fodder toons like SET. You're creating your own problem, but you think you're so smart for doing it that you fail to see why it doesn't work. (and as far as a "minimal GP increase" is concerned, taking a full team from lvl 1 to R7 is around 150k GP. At your GP, that's like 3.75%... that's pretty minimal compared to your overall GP. If you've already got the squad at G12, you're adding like 40k or 50k, which is more like 1%... that's minimal unless we're talking about production facilities that strive for >10 ppm).

    If you don't want to learn, that's your choice. But the whole system shouldn't change just because you can't figure it out.
    Pretty sure you'll have a hard time getting people to agree with with you that jango, bossk, boba and embo are random bhs to take to g13 and your motion that my ONE choice completing my bh squad to their max is a horrible decision is exactly why mm changed I'm the first place since people were punished for completing a wide variety of toons so your definitely off base in that argument.
    As for gac, did you look at what was relicd and what wasn't, my opponents relics, their speed, if I was chasing a score to beat or the squads they had on defence that I didn't bother attacking that you couldn't see? Obviously not, so maybe you should cut your losses before you start looking like a complete fool.

    Oh... and saying taking SET to r5 is a horrible decision is a perfect example of your lacking knowledge in this game. That toon helps me take 1st everyday in arena where I would probably be ranked 20-50 instead if I didn't have him. This has been going on for over a month and will continue into the near future. Now I'll let you work out the difference in Crystals that I have obtained and will continue to gather with him in my squad....but yes it's a horrible decision 😂

    If SET is the only reason you're taking 1st, then your shard must suck. It's a cannon fodder toon; it has one job. But go ahead and think you're a mastermind for taking it to R5.

    Is embo a bad choice? Eh, borderline. Is Embo a bad choice if you're complaining about being matched up with better rosters? 100%. He does not transform the faction. He doesn't make the team any tougher to beat.

    Yeah, I checked your opponents. You already admitted to trying to squeak through battles to see what was on the back wall, but if you can't confidently do it then you're just wasting a team and points for no reason. So, again, you're not as grand at GAC as you like to say.

    But go ahead and continue to blame things outside of your control on your own short comings. That's way easier.
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently are much smarter, but here we go
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing worthless feedback here on this forum. I wish I was better (like TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is correct. I'm just being an obstinate ****.

    Finally, he speaks, albeit to largely ignore what I say, but we'll take it.

    1. Gear has already been spoken against to death by everyone else, you've failed to counter their points, I needn't repeat them for you, I refer you above.

    2. Why should mods be weighted? Surely those who work on better mods should gain the speed benefit from farming them? Don't try to say it's just RNG and doesn't matter, the same is true of gear and character shards and I'm sure you have refreshed on them because it does make a difference.

    3. There is no character in this game that simply by possessing it you guarantee a win condition. Gear matters, placement matters, tactics matter. This has happened already in this thread, you name a character, someone points out an easy way to beat it, you say it requires the rest of the team suddenly (so not just one character), someone points out another counter, you say the team is r7, someone points out the counter still works, you say you haven't got it so it doesn't count. So we'll save time on that too, again the people that worked on metas instead of side projects deserve the benefit, if you want to beat a team, work on it or its counters, mm shouldn't fix that for you else there's no appeal to progression.

    Now your two points:
    GAC is very different to arena, well done. However the "differences" you stated occur in both, in GA you choose which teams you face as in arena, which decides how high you climb, not you. You have no control as to which opposing teams are available to you and you are subject to the whims of the opposition, that's what dictates balance. If you look at your arena shard and go "Oh there's a full relic team in there, I guess I won't do my fights today" then guess who's fault that is when you don't get better rewards? Same situation in GAC.

    Also I like the deniability of your attitude, I'll give it a go. "All GAC matchups should provide each side with exactly 50% chance to win, shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have to do it, that's CG's job." You either have no idea how the algorithm would work or know it wouldn't, hence your week long reluctance to say anything concrete on the matter. Feel free to produce the impossible to prove me wrong though, I'd love to see it.

    Finally, and I now this is already too long for most people's attention, but it's a good source of procrastination:
    Counters. You don't have a character, and rather than finding a way to beat it you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Until you have it, then you want to use it or significantly easier wins, because hypocrisy. This is a resource management game, if you don't manage your resources and work on the things that matter (counters/metas) you will do worse than someone who does. That is entirely your own fault, especially a year down the line. Your analogy is stupid because there is no sense of balance, unless their top x GP toons are matched, in which case, division is the only limiting factor and my money would probably have been on the 2 mil roster.

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    I'd really like to see some snippet of your C+ code... Actually, I bet anyone familiar with coding would like to see C+. Maybe it's the missing link of the coding world! (You didn't justify yourself at all, but you definitely bolstered the argument that you have no idea what it would take to code your "solution").

    1) What happens if someone gears up toons and but doesn't apply zetas to those squads? Now they get matched against similarly geared squads but will be behind the eight-ball because they don't have the right zetas. Should we take zetas into account too? At what point does this becoming fighting a carbon copy of your roster and then blaming RNG because there's nothing else to blame? (hint: 50% of players will be happy with matchmaking, 50% won't. Unless you give out a participation award equal to first place, which it seems like you'd really enjoy, there will always be a loser).

    2) You persistently fail to understand that match making is supposed to give you a shot at a roster that has a similar relevant GP. GAC is no different than any other mode in this game. Want to do well? Make good choices. Don't care about doing well? Do whatever you want. There's no way a sane, intelligent individual (such as yourself) could reasonably expect to make whatever choices they want and still be competitive. That's like working on your jumper and complaining you can't score a goal in your indoor soccer league (or maybe a better analogy would be working on "dribbling" and then not understanding why those basketball drills aren't helping more for soccer). Even in your scenario of matching up based on GP and gear and meta toons and mods and lack of skill, someone will lose. Do you think players would be happier blaming the ghost of RNGesus instead of blaming something tangible like Malak or GAS?

    3) Your third point is simply wrong. If there is a known counter for a team and you've completely ignored working on that counter, that's entirely your fault. Actions have consequences. You don't have to be at a significant disadvantage just because you lack one character. But if you choose to? There's no reason to make concessions for people that refuse to acknowledge the truth. Which is ironic considering your entire argument is founded on refusing to acknowledge that counters work and then choosing to not work on them because, somehow, working on a counter would catapult you into other matches where you might not have a counter (hint: most teams have multiple counters. If you can't increase your GP by a small fraction of your total without facing a team you can't beat, you have much worse problems than match making).

    Mate come into the 30+ g13 threshold and then let me know.....

    Opponent has relicd padme more, work on padme and get her relicd then they have dr more, work on dr then low and behold they have dr with malak, work on that and guess what they have relicd gas extra. I'll get gas next time but you know what when I get him up to relics with clones, my opponents will have gl rey of kylo.

    Don't talk about things that you have no experience with....

    You situation =/= everyone's situation. Just because you can't figure out a way to develop your roster correctly doesn't mean it's impossible.

    Hey, give me a feature to reassign my resources of the last 3+ years and I am all with you.

    Regarding the other points you made in your response to me: Are you really at the point now where you just flip around my arguments no matter if it makes sense or not?

    I would elaborate, but I have to make some money now...

    You've been at the point of telling everyone their wrong without a shred of evidence for your own arguments for a week. But I'm glad taking the utter ridiculousness of your arguments and flipping them on you got you to admit that your own argument structure is silly and makes no sense. That's progress. (And if you have to say the phrase "I have to go make some money now"... sure, go clock in. We can wait).

    Did you even read the argument I was making? Did you understand what I wrote?
    I explained why I think including additional factors like gear level, mods and meta toons into the existing GP mm would lead to better mm results.

    And your response to that is basically: “I don’t care because I’m on the winning side, so suck it up and whale harder” except that even this is not a solution to the problem.

    Overall it appears that you are getting a little too emotional here. So let me share this fitting classic quote by one of our all time favorite characters:
    "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

    You made no argument. You haven't made an argument. Making a statement and continuing to make that statement is not an argument. It's already been explained that your ideas would not lead to better match making results, because 50% of the players will still lose. There isn't any way to get around that. Someone will always have the advantage in a match unless you go against your own roster, and (according to you) any advantage is insurmountable without spending.

    And your response is basically, "I don't care because I'm on the losing side so the whole system should change so I can feel like a winner" except that's not a solution to your (not really a) problem (unless your problem is losing, in which case making it so you can comfortably win without spending money is great... for you).

    Overall it appears you're too devoid of coherent though here. So I'll leave you with a quote from one of the all time favorite characters that you should take to heart, but definitely won't.

    "The greatest teacher, failure is." - Yoda

    P.S. - Still waiting for an example of your C+ code.
  • Saada
    435 posts Member
    edited February 11
    Yes my shard sucks 😂 since its always easy to get first in any arena right?

    I have no other great consistent 5th option in sith marauder (besides gba but didn't have him when I started getting first) so obviously SET is crucial to beating other dr/malak but that's obviously over your head.

    And when you need full clears to win, then you need to take risks and and YOU (yes you mr looking blindly through my gac history and making false assumptions) can't see what they're roster is like or what the overall comparisons were or if the match was done anyway and I was experimenting so your premise of judging me on my GAC is a good reflection of your knowledge of the game not to mention the fact you ignored a lot of my points that you had no answer to and tried to argue certain facts which again has no basis to.

    Please share your swgoh.gg mr think he's a great one 😂
  • Saada wrote: »
    Yes my shard sucks 😂 since its always easy to get first in any arena right?

    I have no other great consistent 5th option in sith marauder (besides gba but didn't have him when I started getting first) so obviously SET is crucial to beating other dr/malak but that's obviously over your head.

    And when you need full clears to win, then you need to take risks and and YOU (yes you mr looking blindly through my gac history and making false assumptions) can't see what they're roster is like or what the overall comparisons were or if the match was done anyway and I was experimenting so your premise of judging me on my GAC is a good reflection of your knowledge of the game not to mention the fact you ignored a lot of my points that you had no answer to and tried to argue certain facts which again has no basis to.

    Please share your swgoh.gg it think he's great one 😂

    You've obviously proven that a great account doesn't make a great player. Is my account as good as yours? No. But I manage to win more than you, even when I'm out matched. (I love the fallacy of "if you aren't better than me you can't know what you're talking about" because every coach has won a national championship, right? Instructors and teachers competed at the top of their field, right? Analysts are only good at what they do because they're way better than those they analyze, right??????) And thanks for either glossing over my statement that I did check out your opponents, or maybe you just couldn't reconcile how to deal with someone who actually did their research.

    And yeah, your shard must suck if you're still taking first with SE. You obviously aren't running into a wall of R7 GAS squads since you're saying you take first against other SE squads. So no, it's not over my head. It appears to be over your head that other shards might be harder than one full of the past meta. But since you're so great at this game, I'm sure you'll find a way to win in GAC instead of blaming CG for your losses. Oh wait.....
Sign In or Register to comment.