GAC matchmaking - supposed to be funny?

Replies

  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    1) Including gear levels in addition to GP would make a significant difference since the current power increase from G11 to G12 to G13 is not reflected in a way that would drive the mm. Especially if you are matching top 80 toons this is an issue I have seen multiple times.

    2) I am not asking for identical strength, but similar. Mm exclusively based on GP fails to deliver this. I also don’t buy the point of no incentive for roster development. GAC is only one of many aspects of the game (and the rewards even for 1st place are not great). So there is still more than enough incentive for people to develop their rosters.

    3) If what you day is true then your opponent must have made some significant mistakes. (like placing too weak teams behind the defenses he thought you couldn’t breach). But relying on the mistakes of your opponents is not a viable strategy.

    Serious question: Why do you think mm is broken? What is the reason?

    Also, why do you think that relying on the mistakes of your opponent is not a viable strategy? That is basically what setting a defense is all about: determining how to arrange you teams in such a way that you can get your opponent to fail.

    Now I'm trying to be calm but what's with the narrow minded thought process....

    When someone has 30 g13 to 10 then that's not right or 25 more zetas but equals g12 and g13 or so on and on as many people have discussed in numerous threads and posts. So yes it suits some more than others and there has to be a better way like comparing overall gp needed an overhaul.

    And relying on your opponent to make a mistake or predicting what they are going to do is a valid strategy BUT.... only when you stand a CHANCE of winning even if they don't make a mistake. If the only possible way to win is if your opponent stuffs up and there's nothing in your control then that match up isn't fair.
  • Pile
    508 posts Member
    I read all these comments and can't understand why people keep railing for a change. GG is not going to change the algorithms so the only viable option you have is to take a long look at how your offence and defense performs and make changes that will help you going forward. Understand where your own deficiencies are and work to alleviate them.
  • Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    1) Including gear levels in addition to GP would make a significant difference since the current power increase from G11 to G12 to G13 is not reflected in a way that would drive the mm. Especially if you are matching top 80 toons this is an issue I have seen multiple times.

    2) I am not asking for identical strength, but similar. Mm exclusively based on GP fails to deliver this. I also don’t buy the point of no incentive for roster development. GAC is only one of many aspects of the game (and the rewards even for 1st place are not great). So there is still more than enough incentive for people to develop their rosters.

    3) If what you day is true then your opponent must have made some significant mistakes. (like placing too weak teams behind the defenses he thought you couldn’t breach). But relying on the mistakes of your opponents is not a viable strategy.

    Serious question: Why do you think mm is broken? What is the reason?

    Also, why do you think that relying on the mistakes of your opponent is not a viable strategy? That is basically what setting a defense is all about: determining how to arrange you teams in such a way that you can get your opponent to fail.

    Now I'm trying to be calm but what's with the narrow minded thought process....

    When someone has 30 g13 to 10 then that's not right or 25 more zetas but equals g12 and g13 or so on and on as many people have discussed in numerous threads and posts. So yes it suits some more than others and there has to be a better way like comparing overall gp needed an overhaul.

    And relying on your opponent to make a mistake or predicting what they are going to do is a valid strategy BUT.... only when you stand a CHANCE of winning even if they don't make a mistake. If the only possible way to win is if your opponent stuffs up and there's nothing in your control then that match up isn't fair.

    What about my post was narrow minded? I asked a question of the opposing side of a debate to try and understand why they have that stance.

    If you can show me the mm where someone has 30 g13 to 10 (and all else is equal) or 25 more zetas (but equal g12 and g13) I would love to see it. Personally, my matchups usually both of those (minus the all else equal obviously). More often I have many more g13 than my opponents, but they have many more zetas and G12 than I do. Its a choice I made to focus on gearing my top squads specifically for GAC.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    1) Including gear levels in addition to GP would make a significant difference since the current power increase from G11 to G12 to G13 is not reflected in a way that would drive the mm. Especially if you are matching top 80 toons this is an issue I have seen multiple times.

    2) I am not asking for identical strength, but similar. Mm exclusively based on GP fails to deliver this. I also don’t buy the point of no incentive for roster development. GAC is only one of many aspects of the game (and the rewards even for 1st place are not great). So there is still more than enough incentive for people to develop their rosters.

    3) If what you day is true then your opponent must have made some significant mistakes. (like placing too weak teams behind the defenses he thought you couldn’t breach). But relying on the mistakes of your opponents is not a viable strategy.

    Serious question: Why do you think mm is broken? What is the reason?

    Also, why do you think that relying on the mistakes of your opponent is not a viable strategy? That is basically what setting a defense is all about: determining how to arrange you teams in such a way that you can get your opponent to fail.

    Now I'm trying to be calm but what's with the narrow minded thought process....

    When someone has 30 g13 to 10 then that's not right or 25 more zetas but equals g12 and g13 or so on and on as many people have discussed in numerous threads and posts. So yes it suits some more than others and there has to be a better way like comparing overall gp needed an overhaul.

    And relying on your opponent to make a mistake or predicting what they are going to do is a valid strategy BUT.... only when you stand a CHANCE of winning even if they don't make a mistake. If the only possible way to win is if your opponent stuffs up and there's nothing in your control then that match up isn't fair.

    What about my post was narrow minded? I asked a question of the opposing side of a debate to try and understand why they have that stance.

    If you can show me the mm where someone has 30 g13 to 10 (and all else is equal) or 25 more zetas (but equal g12 and g13) I would love to see it. Personally, my matchups usually both of those (minus the all else equal obviously). More often I have many more g13 than my opponents, but they have many more zetas and G12 than I do. Its a choice I made to focus on gearing my top squads specifically for GAC.

    It's narrow minded by ignoring the million posts about lopsided matchmaking and asking a question that seems very sarcastic. Just cause you have not had this happen does not mean it doesn't exist. Depending on your gp, you can definitely have an easy matchup but obviously in different ways (low gp may only require a couple g13 and a single meta team to create a huge gap while high gp only includes a certain amount of toons in mm so some people may be down 30 g12s that haven't been included).
    I saw a roster recently that had 6 g13 and 8 g12 in a very small gp range (if he has a couple more g11 squads and lots of g6,7,8 then his matchups are going to favourable and he might get matched with people who have 10 g10 squads). You can say the other guy has depth but if you have a couple g13 in 3 seperate squads and set one or two on defence, those g10s are going to do very little and his history showed that with scores like 1100 points to 500.
  • Saada wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    1) Including gear levels in addition to GP would make a significant difference since the current power increase from G11 to G12 to G13 is not reflected in a way that would drive the mm. Especially if you are matching top 80 toons this is an issue I have seen multiple times.

    2) I am not asking for identical strength, but similar. Mm exclusively based on GP fails to deliver this. I also don’t buy the point of no incentive for roster development. GAC is only one of many aspects of the game (and the rewards even for 1st place are not great). So there is still more than enough incentive for people to develop their rosters.

    3) If what you day is true then your opponent must have made some significant mistakes. (like placing too weak teams behind the defenses he thought you couldn’t breach). But relying on the mistakes of your opponents is not a viable strategy.

    Serious question: Why do you think mm is broken? What is the reason?

    Also, why do you think that relying on the mistakes of your opponent is not a viable strategy? That is basically what setting a defense is all about: determining how to arrange you teams in such a way that you can get your opponent to fail.

    Now I'm trying to be calm but what's with the narrow minded thought process....

    When someone has 30 g13 to 10 then that's not right or 25 more zetas but equals g12 and g13 or so on and on as many people have discussed in numerous threads and posts. So yes it suits some more than others and there has to be a better way like comparing overall gp needed an overhaul.

    And relying on your opponent to make a mistake or predicting what they are going to do is a valid strategy BUT.... only when you stand a CHANCE of winning even if they don't make a mistake. If the only possible way to win is if your opponent stuffs up and there's nothing in your control then that match up isn't fair.

    What about my post was narrow minded? I asked a question of the opposing side of a debate to try and understand why they have that stance.

    If you can show me the mm where someone has 30 g13 to 10 (and all else is equal) or 25 more zetas (but equal g12 and g13) I would love to see it. Personally, my matchups usually both of those (minus the all else equal obviously). More often I have many more g13 than my opponents, but they have many more zetas and G12 than I do. Its a choice I made to focus on gearing my top squads specifically for GAC.

    It's narrow minded by ignoring the million posts about lopsided matchmaking and asking a question that seems very sarcastic. Just cause you have not had this happen does not mean it doesn't exist. Depending on your gp, you can definitely have an easy matchup but obviously in different ways (low gp may only require a couple g13 and a single meta team to create a huge gap while high gp only includes a certain amount of toons in mm so some people may be down 30 g12s that haven't been included).
    I saw a roster recently that had 6 g13 and 8 g12 in a very small gp range (if he has a couple more g11 squads and lots of g6,7,8 then his matchups are going to favourable and he might get matched with people who have 10 g10 squads). You can say the other guy has depth but if you have a couple g13 in 3 seperate squads and set one or two on defence, those g10s are going to do very little and his history showed that with scores like 1100 points to 500.

    I would disagree about being narrow minded as I rarely see the answer to why a matchup is unfair, just a screenshot of a matchup or wailing about number of g13. Besides, I am asking one specific person (who isn't even you) why they think mm is broken.

    Cool story about this phantom account, but where is the broken matchup?
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Saada wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    1) Including gear levels in addition to GP would make a significant difference since the current power increase from G11 to G12 to G13 is not reflected in a way that would drive the mm. Especially if you are matching top 80 toons this is an issue I have seen multiple times.

    2) I am not asking for identical strength, but similar. Mm exclusively based on GP fails to deliver this. I also don’t buy the point of no incentive for roster development. GAC is only one of many aspects of the game (and the rewards even for 1st place are not great). So there is still more than enough incentive for people to develop their rosters.

    3) If what you day is true then your opponent must have made some significant mistakes. (like placing too weak teams behind the defenses he thought you couldn’t breach). But relying on the mistakes of your opponents is not a viable strategy.

    Serious question: Why do you think mm is broken? What is the reason?

    Also, why do you think that relying on the mistakes of your opponent is not a viable strategy? That is basically what setting a defense is all about: determining how to arrange you teams in such a way that you can get your opponent to fail.

    Now I'm trying to be calm but what's with the narrow minded thought process....

    When someone has 30 g13 to 10 then that's not right or 25 more zetas but equals g12 and g13 or so on and on as many people have discussed in numerous threads and posts. So yes it suits some more than others and there has to be a better way like comparing overall gp needed an overhaul.

    And relying on your opponent to make a mistake or predicting what they are going to do is a valid strategy BUT.... only when you stand a CHANCE of winning even if they don't make a mistake. If the only possible way to win is if your opponent stuffs up and there's nothing in your control then that match up isn't fair.

    What about my post was narrow minded? I asked a question of the opposing side of a debate to try and understand why they have that stance.

    If you can show me the mm where someone has 30 g13 to 10 (and all else is equal) or 25 more zetas (but equal g12 and g13) I would love to see it. Personally, my matchups usually both of those (minus the all else equal obviously). More often I have many more g13 than my opponents, but they have many more zetas and G12 than I do. Its a choice I made to focus on gearing my top squads specifically for GAC.

    It's narrow minded by ignoring the million posts about lopsided matchmaking and asking a question that seems very sarcastic. Just cause you have not had this happen does not mean it doesn't exist. Depending on your gp, you can definitely have an easy matchup but obviously in different ways (low gp may only require a couple g13 and a single meta team to create a huge gap while high gp only includes a certain amount of toons in mm so some people may be down 30 g12s that haven't been included).
    I saw a roster recently that had 6 g13 and 8 g12 in a very small gp range (if he has a couple more g11 squads and lots of g6,7,8 then his matchups are going to favourable and he might get matched with people who have 10 g10 squads). You can say the other guy has depth but if you have a couple g13 in 3 seperate squads and set one or two on defence, those g10s are going to do very little and his history showed that with scores like 1100 points to 500.

    I would disagree about being narrow minded as I rarely see the answer to why a matchup is unfair, just a screenshot of a matchup or wailing about number of g13. Besides, I am asking one specific person (who isn't even you) why they think mm is broken.

    Cool story about this phantom account, but where is the broken matchup?

    Guess you are referring to me with “one specific person”. Please be patient. I have a job and will respond when I can...
  • You made no argument. You haven't made an argument. Making a statement and continuing to make that statement is not an argument. It's already been explained that your ideas would not lead to better match making results, because 50% of the players will still lose. There isn't any way to get around that. Someone will always have the advantage in a match unless you go against your own roster, and (according to you) any advantage is insurmountable without spending.

    And your response is basically, "I don't care because I'm on the losing side so the whole system should change so I can feel like a winner" except that's not a solution to your (not really a) problem (unless your problem is losing, in which case making it so you can comfortably win without spending money is great... for you).

    Overall it appears you're too devoid of coherent though here. So I'll leave you with a quote from one of the all time favorite characters that you should take to heart, but definitely won't.

    "The greatest teacher, failure is." - Yoda

    P.S. - Still waiting for an example of your C+ code.

    I agree with one thing in your post. And that’s the Yoda quote.

    Other than that: It’s not about 50% of players winning or losing. That has nothing to do with mm but simply with binary results for GAC.

    No, it’s about matching players of similar strength. And therefore the advantage one player has over the other should be limited by good mm. If you don’t agree with that you can just match randomly 2mm with 5mm GP and call it fine.

    And I don’t know how often I have to repeat myself: gear level matters! So it should be a factor. That would improve the mm.
    How was it explained that my ideas would not lead to better mm results? Please tell me.

    There are other factors that are more debatable like mods and meta characters. But those Can as well be reflected via the existing GP mm by weighing those mods and toons accordingly.

    Unfortunately your problem seems to be that you cannot distinguish between asking for closer mm and asking for easier opponents.

    Overall you are assuming a lot. Self-reflection and objectivity don’t seem to be your strength.

    And regarding my C++: I don’t think anybody would be interested in me posting a 30 year old piece of code.

    But maybe if you explain to me how / why my suggestions don’t improve mm, then I’ll share too :-)
  • klb6u7sdb7b3.jpeg

    Here is the ultimate defense for GA
  • It basically comes down to balancing higher Relic tiers vs. zetas. "Older" rosters with more zetas and lower relic tiers are at a disadvantage because many of those zetas have outlived their usefulness or are not required for a team to be effective (leadership zetas from past metas, "nice-to-haves" on toons like JTR and CLS) etc. etc.

    The blame-the-player-crowd can twist themselves into all of the knots they want, but this is simply dead GP weight that can never be made up and will always count against you. Arguing that it doesn't or that there's a way around it just makes you look like you haven't given things much thought.
  • Saada wrote: »
    Pretty sure you'll have a hard time getting people to agree with with you that jango, bossk, boba and embo are random bhs to take to g13 and your motion that my ONE choice completing my bh squad to their max is a horrible decision is exactly why mm changed I'm the first place since people were punished for completing a wide variety of toons so your definitely off base in that argument.
    I spotted one area where you could make improvements to your roster and future matchmaking.

    You speak of “completing” a squad by taking them to their max. I think that’s a mistake, especially for BH.

    The resources required to take toons to r7 are massive, and should be spent wisely. And the benefit each toon gives you at relic levels is not equal. Taking each member (or even most members) of a team to r7 is not usually the most efficient use of those resources.

    Best example I can think of would be a JKR team. Take GMY to r7? Absolutely. He hits like a truck. Jolee? Yeah - if he’s tanky, it sure makes that team harder to take down. Take JKR to r7? Sure, but is the benefit of taking him beyond r4 worth the cost? Maybe not. Take Bastila or Hoda to r7? I’m not even sure I’d take them to g13.

    In a BH team, an r7 Bossk is a pest. He is so incredibly tanky that some of the normal BH counters (FO for one) can time out, even on auto, because he takes so long to wear down. Would r7 Dengar, Embo, Jango etc make the team even better? Maybe a little, but it wouldn’t be worth the investment in my opinion.

    Good use of relic / g13 resources means applying them to the key toons in a team. Like GBA and Spy in a Geos team. Relics on the other Geos improve the team a bit, but you’d be better off spending those resources improving another team a lot by improving its key toons.

    TL;DR - if you’ve only got 10 g13 toons, and all 10 of them are across 2 teams, you’re not doing it right.
  • It basically comes down to balancing higher Relic tiers vs. zetas. "Older" rosters with more zetas and lower relic tiers are at a disadvantage because many of those zetas have outlived their usefulness or are not required for a team to be effective (leadership zetas from past metas, "nice-to-haves" on toons like JTR and CLS) etc. etc.

    The blame-the-player-crowd can twist themselves into all of the knots they want, but this is simply dead GP weight that can never be made up and will always count against you. Arguing that it doesn't or that there's a way around it just makes you look like you haven't given things much thought.

    Thank you. You restored my faith in humankind ;-)

  • TL;DR - if you’ve only got 10 g13 toons, and all 10 of them are across 2 teams, you’re not doing it right.
    Unless it's GSky/clones and DR/Malak - and your opponent has neither. Then you win.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • thecarterologist958
    1014 posts Member
    edited February 14
    So, since I can't be bothered to quote and make 20 odd posts to reply to different points here you can decide for yourselves whether they apply to you or not.

    The point of a counter is it is more accessible and requires less levelling than the team it faces, if it needs more gear than the opposition, it's a bad counter. Working on a counter won't give you so much GP that the opposition can get another meta team going for the same investment, and given the limited number of meta teams with few counters, you getting the counter to one will mean the extra team they are guaranteed to have will be worse than said meta so you have a better comparable investment.

    Old characters are a drag on applicable GP, the only brute force solution is to push them out of the top 80, which is obviously a Whale Harder strategy. It's also not the only solution, instead you could learn to make use out of the weaker characters in your roster that don't get counted but can still get used. If you claim that they are guaranteed to be useless, I suspect you are using them against the wrong teams.

    Simple solution to undefeatable characters is of course to get them, anyone who believes they have been playing the game longer than me has literally no excuse to not have Malak other than they weren't trying, because I really didn't make a special effort to. On a separate note, SET gear in no way determines the outcome of an arena match, it serves the purpose of getting a pretaunt off and being a pain, that is just ability levels, I don't run SET in my SE team and have beaten every level of relic because speed on other characters is the defining influence.

    People keep saying other areas of the game incentivise roster progression and GAC is different. Why? The reason they changed matchmaking before (to the person who said it was fine then) was exactly because people had no incentive, so clearly GAC is not meant to be different in that respect.

    There was probably more, but I can't remember it. If anyone has any other questions or veiled insults I'll get to them when I can. I'm very busy, after all I'm only permitted 15 minutes a day on the computer and the phone is contraband enough without me shouting at it trying to get the mobile-unfriendly format to listen to me on here.
    Post edited by thecarterologist958 on
  • I'm over arguing with big headed people who think they know it all and can't fathom that things are different for others in all aspects of this game and that there is reasons for things that people use or gear (SET for example) even though from your experience it's not needed but guess what for others it is necessary (shard, speed, other toons accessible etc etc) but no no no.... blah blah blah.... whatever. Maybe stay off here mr busy guy but no you've just got to prove your right because from YOUR experience you can Now talk for everyone..... "shakes head"
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    1) Including gear levels in addition to GP would make a significant difference since the current power increase from G11 to G12 to G13 is not reflected in a way that would drive the mm. Especially if you are matching top 80 toons this is an issue I have seen multiple times.

    2) I am not asking for identical strength, but similar. Mm exclusively based on GP fails to deliver this. I also don’t buy the point of no incentive for roster development. GAC is only one of many aspects of the game (and the rewards even for 1st place are not great). So there is still more than enough incentive for people to develop their rosters.

    3) If what you day is true then your opponent must have made some significant mistakes. (like placing too weak teams behind the defenses he thought you couldn’t breach). But relying on the mistakes of your opponents is not a viable strategy.

    Serious question: Why do you think mm is broken? What is the reason?

    Also, why do you think that relying on the mistakes of your opponent is not a viable strategy? That is basically what setting a defense is all about: determining how to arrange you teams in such a way that you can get your opponent to fail.

    Now I'm trying to be calm but what's with the narrow minded thought process....

    When someone has 30 g13 to 10 then that's not right or 25 more zetas but equals g12 and g13 or so on and on as many people have discussed in numerous threads and posts. So yes it suits some more than others and there has to be a better way like comparing overall gp needed an overhaul.

    And relying on your opponent to make a mistake or predicting what they are going to do is a valid strategy BUT.... only when you stand a CHANCE of winning even if they don't make a mistake. If the only possible way to win is if your opponent stuffs up and there's nothing in your control then that match up isn't fair.

    What about my post was narrow minded? I asked a question of the opposing side of a debate to try and understand why they have that stance.

    If you can show me the mm where someone has 30 g13 to 10 (and all else is equal) or 25 more zetas (but equal g12 and g13) I would love to see it. Personally, my matchups usually both of those (minus the all else equal obviously). More often I have many more g13 than my opponents, but they have many more zetas and G12 than I do. Its a choice I made to focus on gearing my top squads specifically for GAC.

    It's narrow minded by ignoring the million posts about lopsided matchmaking and asking a question that seems very sarcastic. Just cause you have not had this happen does not mean it doesn't exist. Depending on your gp, you can definitely have an easy matchup but obviously in different ways (low gp may only require a couple g13 and a single meta team to create a huge gap while high gp only includes a certain amount of toons in mm so some people may be down 30 g12s that haven't been included).
    I saw a roster recently that had 6 g13 and 8 g12 in a very small gp range (if he has a couple more g11 squads and lots of g6,7,8 then his matchups are going to favourable and he might get matched with people who have 10 g10 squads). You can say the other guy has depth but if you have a couple g13 in 3 seperate squads and set one or two on defence, those g10s are going to do very little and his history showed that with scores like 1100 points to 500.

    I would disagree about being narrow minded as I rarely see the answer to why a matchup is unfair, just a screenshot of a matchup or wailing about number of g13. Besides, I am asking one specific person (who isn't even you) why they think mm is broken.

    Cool story about this phantom account, but where is the broken matchup?

    Guess you are referring to me with “one specific person”. Please be patient. I have a job and will respond when I can...

    I am still curious as to why you think mm is broken. Genuinely curious, sorry if i missed it in this 9 page thread.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Saada wrote: »
    I'm over arguing with big headed people who think they know it all and can't fathom that things are different for others in all aspects of this game and that there is reasons for things that people use or gear (SET for example) even though from your experience it's not needed but guess what for others it is necessary (shard, speed, other toons accessible etc etc) but no no no.... blah blah blah.... whatever. Maybe stay off here mr busy guy but no you've just got to prove your right because from YOUR experience you can Now talk for everyone..... "shakes head"

    You probably will not respond to this, but are you arguing for better mm because you are one of those who gets favorable matchups? I cannot tell based on the fact that you have 14 r5s and 16 r7s at only 4m GP, yet you cite 20 relic advantages as a reason it is broken. So my question to you is this: do you think your matches would be more fair if all of your opponents had 14 r5 characters and 16 r7s?
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Saada wrote: »
    I'm over arguing with big headed people who think they know it all and can't fathom that things are different for others in all aspects of this game and that there is reasons for things that people use or gear (SET for example) even though from your experience it's not needed but guess what for others it is necessary (shard, speed, other toons accessible etc etc) but no no no.... blah blah blah.... whatever. Maybe stay off here mr busy guy but no you've just got to prove your right because from YOUR experience you can Now talk for everyone..... "shakes head"

    You probably will not respond to this, but are you arguing for better mm because you are one of those who gets favorable matchups? I cannot tell based on the fact that you have 14 r5s and 16 r7s at only 4m GP, yet you cite 20 relic advantages as a reason it is broken. So my question to you is this: do you think your matches would be more fair if all of your opponents had 14 r5 characters and 16 r7s?

    My situation is different but I'm arguing that mm still needs to refined for all. Low gp have one sided matches because of different reasons compared to mid range gp and high range gp. I'm getting at that just because you haven't experienced or think you have a way to rectify doesn't make it true. Those arguing its fine don't know what some feel like when they know they have no hope. Then they change their roster, focus on mods, getting meta teams but then their mm gets worse for a different reason.... Don't go assuming you know it all (not directed just at you littlemac) while others struggling know nothing.
    In my group at the moment, there is someone with 50g13 with r7 clones and gas as well as r7 dr/malak compared to my 30 g13. Now I get I may have more zetas or more g11 or g12 or higher relics but 4 more full g13 squads including the top two metas maxed out makes it near impossible to win. I've gone for offence and can clear the board but I won't be able to get enough banners and have tried defensively and balanced but that person will still be able to clear what I put down while still having strong g13 on defence...... I'm not playing in a bracket where people make mistakes or don't know what they're doing....
    I would settle for a +/- or 5 g13 toons added to the match up.
    I've beaten a very strong roster but they didn't have a great arena team, so I set mine on defence cleared 3/4 while he could only clear half. One good team was enough to win and I knew that, he probably did too. He tried and failed but imagine the mismatched fight would be if he got the guy with 50 g13. He has no hope and shouldn't be in this group but because of the way mm is, he gets the short straw.

    It just needs some tweaking and to be attacked for saying this is the problem with this forum and the supposedly know it alls
  • Saada wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    I'm over arguing with big headed people who think they know it all and can't fathom that things are different for others in all aspects of this game and that there is reasons for things that people use or gear (SET for example) even though from your experience it's not needed but guess what for others it is necessary (shard, speed, other toons accessible etc etc) but no no no.... blah blah blah.... whatever. Maybe stay off here mr busy guy but no you've just got to prove your right because from YOUR experience you can Now talk for everyone..... "shakes head"

    You probably will not respond to this, but are you arguing for better mm because you are one of those who gets favorable matchups? I cannot tell based on the fact that you have 14 r5s and 16 r7s at only 4m GP, yet you cite 20 relic advantages as a reason it is broken. So my question to you is this: do you think your matches would be more fair if all of your opponents had 14 r5 characters and 16 r7s?

    My situation is different but I'm arguing that mm still needs to refined for all. Low gp have one sided matches because of different reasons compared to mid range gp and high range gp. I'm getting at that just because you haven't experienced or think you have a way to rectify doesn't make it true. Those arguing its fine don't know what some feel like when they know they have no hope. Then they change their roster, focus on mods, getting meta teams but then their mm gets worse for a different reason.... Don't go assuming you know it all (not directed just at you littlemac) while others struggling know nothing.
    In my group at the moment, there is someone with 50g13 with r7 clones and gas as well as r7 dr/malak compared to my 30 g13. Now I get I may have more zetas or more g11 or g12 or higher relics but 4 more full g13 squads including the top two metas maxed out makes it near impossible to win. I've gone for offence and can clear the board but I won't be able to get enough banners and have tried defensively and balanced but that person will still be able to clear what I put down while still having strong g13 on defence...... I'm not playing in a bracket where people make mistakes or don't know what they're doing....
    I would settle for a +/- or 5 g13 toons added to the match up.
    I've beaten a very strong roster but they didn't have a great arena team, so I set mine on defence cleared 3/4 while he could only clear half. One good team was enough to win and I knew that, he probably did too. He tried and failed but imagine the mismatched fight would be if he got the guy with 50 g13. He has no hope and shouldn't be in this group but because of the way mm is, he gets the short straw.

    It just needs some tweaking and to be attacked for saying this is the problem with this forum and the supposedly know it alls

    So you're saying you can beat a wide range of rosters, regardless of which way the matchup goes. Hmm...so does that mean mm was bad for the other person everytime?

    You seem to be defending ppl who lose, even when you yourself prove any percieved mismatch can be overcome by strategy. Wonder if that's the whole point of GAC....??
  • Waqui
    7724 posts Member
    Saada wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    Firstly going into the g12/13, people don't deserve that advantage cause other wise you should just match a 3mil account with a 3mil account even if the g13 is 35 to 5.'..

    Why don' t they deserve the advantage? It's this advantage that gives incentive to build (and invest in) a strong roster.

    Matching by total GP as it was done before championships were introduced resulted in far too imbalanced matches, which often gave little incentive to make an effort when playing. Today matches are far more even, and the result is rarely given beforehand - even if I'm often at a disadvantage when comparing top of the rosters (relics, META teams etc.)
    secondly if you do win when someone has both revans while you have none that says nothing about matchmaking being correct. It just means that person has no idea what they're doing and as an opponent you need to rely on luck (Your opponent doing something stupid like keeping both for offence) to win which shows that match making isn't right if the only hope you have to win is relying on your opponent to make a mistake....

    I disagree. This kind of match is exactly right and seems to be WAI. If one player has a superior roster while the other makes up for it by superior strategy or execution it's a good match. Including past performances (leagues) in matchmaking indicates that the designers intend to include some measure of skill.
  • Waqui
    7724 posts Member
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    1) Including gear levels in addition to GP would make a significant difference since the current power increase from G11 to G12 to G13 is not reflected in a way that would drive the mm. Especially if you are matching top 80 toons this is an issue I have seen multiple times.

    I disagree. The increase from g11 to g12 is reflected well. There's only little difference in GP and only little difference in actual strength. A g11 counter team most often still beats a g12 team it counters. The jump in strength from g12+5 to g13 is not reflected in the GP. I give you that. However, the fairly large increase in GP from relics makes up for some of this. I don't see this issue in my matches.
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    2) I am not asking for identical strength, but similar.

    Great! We have that already. I don't see the ridiculously uneven matches I saw before the introduction of championships any more.
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Mm exclusively based on GP fails to deliver this.

    MM is no longer based purely on GP. Past performances (leagues) are also considered.
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    I also don’t buy the point of no incentive for roster development. GAC is only one of many aspects of the game (and the rewards even for 1st place are not great). So there is still more than enough incentive for people to develop their rosters.

    But the incentive would be eliminated from GAC. We're discussing GAC here.
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    3) If what you day is true then your opponent must have made some significant mistakes. (like placing too weak teams behind the defenses he thought you couldn’t breach). But relying on the mistakes of your opponents is not a viable strategy.

    Yet, it proves that no META character/team guarantees a win. Yes, those opponents with superior characters appear to have had inferior strategy, execution, mods or whatever, which made it a good match.

  • Waqui
    7724 posts Member
    Saada wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    thecarterologist958: you apparently do not read my posts unless they are directly addressed to you, so here we go:
    Those are factors mm should consider IN ADDITION to GP.:
    First the gear level (#G12 and G13) should be considered. This will help avoid mismatches between players with 10 G13 toons and 26 G13 toons.
    Secondly the mm should consider mods via GP by weighing certain mods higher than others. E.g speed mods 18+
    Thirdly certain meta toons should be considered in the mm. Unfortunately there are certain toons that predetermine win or lose in GAC if one player has the toon and the other does not. While they might not be unbeatable GAC is decided by points.

    Please also note two things:
    1. GAC is very different from Arena. In Arena you decide yourself how high you climb. In GAC the mm assigns 7 opponents you have no control over. CG states in the past that GAC would match players with similar strength.
    2. It is not my job to come up with a mm algorithm. I am a customer and am already going above and beyond by providing constructive feedback here on this forum. This is more than I can say about many of the critics here (looking at you TVF).

    Finally I have to respond (again) to the old “whale harder” argument:
    Arguing that if you cannot beat a R7 Malak you just need to develop counters is ignorant nonsense. The same way you could argue that matching a 2mm GP player with a 5mm GP player is fair. The 2mm GP player just needs to develop his roster. Again this is not arena.

    But I guess people who profit from the current mm logic will keep telling me why there is no problem...

    [...]

    TL;DR:

    Every word of what you just said was wrong, and you don't know how resource management, coding or this game work.

    Ok. I’ll try to be brief (because I don’t have the patience of a special ed teacher):
    1) the only argument against using gear i found is that a fully geared Bossk would be equal to a fully geared Malak. But the same “issue” exists in current mm by GP. You are completely ignoring the benefits of using gear in mm. And again: I’m talking IN ADDITION to GP, not instead. You must have missed my all caps statement in my previous post.
    2) you persistently fail to understand that the point of mm is to match similar players. You basically keep complaining about people would lose their advantage when matches with similar players because when you farmed/whales so hard on your roster you should have an advantage. And you do in pretty much any other aspect of the game. I’m not saying I shouldn’t see Malak teams in my arena because I don’t have Malak. Or Geo TB should be easier because I lack the toons to get more stars. GAC is different, but I am repeating myself...
    3) your third point is simply wrong. You win GAC by points, so if you face a toon you cannot defeat the first time you are already at a significant disadvantage and some toons required you to use your strongest teams to beat. That makes it a certain loss unless your opponent makes significant mistakes. You not recognizing that only shows that you have never been on the downside of mm. For other flaws in your argument see 2)

    The rest of your post simply repeats the same point over and over again (i.e. “whale harder”) and shows that you are not capable of understanding why mm should be improved. The 2mm GP vs 5mm GP is exactly the right analogy to your arguments.

    Finally don’t make all these unfounded assumptions. I play this game probably longer than you and resource management goes back to your “whale harder” argument.
    Regarding coding experience I don’t have to justify myself here, but let’s just say I was writing code in basic, C+ and turbo pascal back in the day and work for over 15 years on Wall St. Big data is one of my fields of expertise.
    I could have easily spend a few thousand a month over the last 3 years on this game to max all the toons, but I did that in the past on a different game and it completely took away all the fun.

    Also I have to admit I enjoy those forum discussions...

    1. Since gear is already included in the GP calculation, what exactly do you intend to achieve by adding gear levels as a second criteria? Do you really believe that you will see different matches?

    2. Somewhat similar rosters? Yes. Rosters of identical strength? No. That's not the purpose. For some reason you fail to see this. Any more even matches than now => less incentive to invest in improving your roster.

    3. Yet, still there's no character that guarantees a win. I have beaten opponents that had both Revans and Malak with my alt without having any Revan of my own. Work on counter, strategy and execution.



    1) Including gear levels in addition to GP would make a significant difference since the current power increase from G11 to G12 to G13 is not reflected in a way that would drive the mm. Especially if you are matching top 80 toons this is an issue I have seen multiple times.

    2) I am not asking for identical strength, but similar. Mm exclusively based on GP fails to deliver this. I also don’t buy the point of no incentive for roster development. GAC is only one of many aspects of the game (and the rewards even for 1st place are not great). So there is still more than enough incentive for people to develop their rosters.

    3) If what you day is true then your opponent must have made some significant mistakes. (like placing too weak teams behind the defenses he thought you couldn’t breach). But relying on the mistakes of your opponents is not a viable strategy.

    Serious question: Why do you think mm is broken? What is the reason?

    Also, why do you think that relying on the mistakes of your opponent is not a viable strategy? That is basically what setting a defense is all about: determining how to arrange you teams in such a way that you can get your opponent to fail.

    Now I'm trying to be calm but what's with the narrow minded thought process....

    When someone has 30 g13 to 10 then that's not right or 25 more zetas but equals g12 and g13 or so on and on as many people have discussed in numerous threads and posts.

    Relics and zetas add a significant amount of GP. The player with less zetas and relics will have an advantage on other aspects in the top-80 characters in such a match. That has been discussed in all those threads as well.
    And relying on your opponent to make a mistake or predicting what they are going to do is a valid strategy BUT.... only when you stand a CHANCE of winning even if they don't make a mistake.
    If the only possible way to win is if your opponent stuffs up and there's nothing in your control then that match up isn't fair.

    I disagree. If the player with an inferior roster makes up for it with a superior strategy or execution it seems like a good match to me. Including past performances (leagues) in matchmaking indicates that those kind of matches are intended.
  • Waqui
    7724 posts Member
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    You made no argument. You haven't made an argument. Making a statement and continuing to make that statement is not an argument. It's already been explained that your ideas would not lead to better match making results, because 50% of the players will still lose. There isn't any way to get around that. Someone will always have the advantage in a match unless you go against your own roster, and (according to you) any advantage is insurmountable without spending.

    And your response is basically, "I don't care because I'm on the losing side so the whole system should change so I can feel like a winner" except that's not a solution to your (not really a) problem (unless your problem is losing, in which case making it so you can comfortably win without spending money is great... for you).

    Overall it appears you're too devoid of coherent though here. So I'll leave you with a quote from one of the all time favorite characters that you should take to heart, but definitely won't.

    "The greatest teacher, failure is." - Yoda

    P.S. - Still waiting for an example of your C+ code.

    I agree with one thing in your post. And that’s the Yoda quote.

    Other than that: It’s not about 50% of players winning or losing. That has nothing to do with mm but simply with binary results for GAC.

    No, it’s about matching players of similar strength. And therefore the advantage one player has over the other should be limited by good mm.

    It's already limited. It was limited with the introduction of matching by top-x GP instead of total GP. It was further limited by the elimination of cross-division and Cross-league matches. We're simply discussing how much more it should be limited. If you limit it much further you would eliminate the incentive to improve and invest in your roster.

    (yes, eliminate it from GAC).
    And I don’t know how often I have to repeat myself: gear level matters! So it should be a factor.

    It already is. Maybe not to the level you want but it already is a factor. Repeating yourself doesn't change this.

    There are other factors that are more debatable like mods and meta characters. But those Can as well be reflected via the existing GP mm by weighing those mods and toons accordingly.

    Weighing mods with stronger stats more than mods with weaker stats, where would decrease the incentive to improve your mods (in GAC). I like that mods make a difference. Let players with strong mods have their advantage. They probably invested more resources in farming/buying/slicing those mods (yes, RNG plays a significant role, I know).
    Unfortunately your problem seems to be that you cannot distinguish between asking for closer mm and asking for easier opponents.

    Most players asking for closer matches ask for easier opponents. Check the discussions. Personaly, I see much closer matches now than before the introduction of championships. It's fine (yes, also when I lose).
  • Saada wrote: »

    My situation is different but I'm arguing that mm still needs to refined for all. Low gp have one sided matches because of different reasons compared to mid range gp and high range gp. I'm getting at that just because you haven't experienced or think you have a way to rectify doesn't make it true. Those arguing its fine don't know what some feel like when they know they have no hope. Then they change their roster, focus on mods, getting meta teams but then their mm gets worse for a different reason.... Don't go assuming you know it all (not directed just at you littlemac) while others struggling know nothing.
    In my group at the moment, there is someone with 50g13 with r7 clones and gas as well as r7 dr/malak compared to my 30 g13. Now I get I may have more zetas or more g11 or g12 or higher relics but 4 more full g13 squads including the top two metas maxed out makes it near impossible to win. I've gone for offence and can clear the board but I won't be able to get enough banners and have tried defensively and balanced but that person will still be able to clear what I put down while still having strong g13 on defence...... I'm not playing in a bracket where people make mistakes or don't know what they're doing....
    I would settle for a +/- or 5 g13 toons added to the match up.
    I've beaten a very strong roster but they didn't have a great arena team, so I set mine on defence cleared 3/4 while he could only clear half. One good team was enough to win and I knew that, he probably did too. He tried and failed but imagine the mismatched fight would be if he got the guy with 50 g13. He has no hope and shouldn't be in this group but because of the way mm is, he gets the short straw.

    It just needs some tweaking and to be attacked for saying this is the problem with this forum and the supposedly know it alls

    So you have 30 G13 but no DR, Malak, or GAS? Or is it you do have them and just chose not to mention it while bringing up your opposition's? Because if you have worked on that many relics and not the two best teams in the game, then I've found your problem. If you have worked on the two best teams in the game and have them at relic levels same as your opponent, then looking into your extra G12 as counters to some of their weaker G13 teams is perfectly reasonable, relics don't make every team unbeatable. This is true of everyone at your GP level.

    If one side has a team the other can't beat in that instance, it quite possibly comes down to mods, in which case that's probably earned, mods are important in this game and not giving them the attention due will see you suffer as a result. Also with your opponents extra relics, what tier are they? About half of your relics are relic 7 I believe, is the same true of them or have they gone for a broader, weaker roster? (Yes, even with 50 relics.) It's possible that the difference is in your G11/12 characters, but that isn't a guarantee. Also don't assume I don't know what it is like to go into a match knowing you will lose, I've seen some rosters that I know I can't beat, only to find that it always comes down to tactics to some degree. If they think first, they win, yet more often than not I win those outmatched fights, same as you claim to. Maybe nobody ever makes a mistake at your level as you claim, but I doubt it, based on some roster descriptions.
  • Guys... All we need are more and smaller divisions and matchmaking based around feat points. Boom.
  • Waqui
    7724 posts Member
    Saada wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    I'm over arguing with big headed people who think they know it all and can't fathom that things are different for others in all aspects of this game and that there is reasons for things that people use or gear (SET for example) even though from your experience it's not needed but guess what for others it is necessary (shard, speed, other toons accessible etc etc) but no no no.... blah blah blah.... whatever. Maybe stay off here mr busy guy but no you've just got to prove your right because from YOUR experience you can Now talk for everyone..... "shakes head"

    You probably will not respond to this, but are you arguing for better mm because you are one of those who gets favorable matchups? I cannot tell based on the fact that you have 14 r5s and 16 r7s at only 4m GP, yet you cite 20 relic advantages as a reason it is broken. So my question to you is this: do you think your matches would be more fair if all of your opponents had 14 r5 characters and 16 r7s?

    My situation is different but I'm arguing that mm still needs to refined for all. Low gp have one sided matches because of different reasons compared to mid range gp and high range gp. I'm getting at that just because you haven't experienced or think you have a way to rectify doesn't make it true. Those arguing its fine don't know what some feel like when they know they have no hope. Then they change their roster, focus on mods, getting meta teams but then their mm gets worse for a different reason.... Don't go assuming you know it all (not directed just at you littlemac) while others struggling know nothing.
    In my group at the moment, there is someone with 50g13 with r7 clones and gas as well as r7 dr/malak compared to my 30 g13. Now I get I may have more zetas or more g11 or g12 or higher relics but 4 more full g13 squads including the top two metas maxed out makes it near impossible to win. I've gone for offence and can clear the board but I won't be able to get enough banners and have tried defensively and balanced but that person will still be able to clear what I put down while still having strong g13 on defence...... I'm not playing in a bracket where people make mistakes or don't know what they're doing....
    I would settle for a +/- or 5 g13 toons added to the match up.
    I've beaten a very strong roster but they didn't have a great arena team, so I set mine on defence cleared 3/4 while he could only clear half. One good team was enough to win and I knew that, he probably did too. He tried and failed but imagine the mismatched fight would be if he got the guy with 50 g13. He has no hope and shouldn't be in this group but because of the way mm is, he gets the short straw.

    It just needs some tweaking and to be attacked for saying this is the problem with this forum and the supposedly know it alls

    You're right, I don't know what others feel. However, I do know that I have won rounds where I was the underdog when comparing META teams and gear/relic levels. I myself don't feel discouraged by being the underdog, since in my experience I sometimes succeed if only I take a shot at it. I maintain hope. Maybe it's partly a matter of attitude if players lose hope.

    I have a hard time believing that players get a harder match-up if they improve their roster. As long as they improve (unlock, gear etc.) the strongest teams, how would their match-up become more difficult? How would getting a new counter team, they need decrease their chances? Yes, they will meet stronger opponents, but they will be stronger themselves as well.

    Regarding your bracket and mistakes:
    When checking the 2 most recent GAs in your GAC history I see mistakes on both your and your opponents' sides. Feel free to PM me, if you want details.
    (Don't get me wrong. I'm impressed by your and your opponents' rosters. I'm just arguing that mistakes still happen)
  • No point arguing over and over...... your all not going to change your mind and neither are people who think mm can be improved.

    I also like @Akenno 's idea above since then people who are 5-1 won't be in the same league as someone who is 1-5
  • Old characters are a drag on applicable GP, the only brute force solution is to push them out of the top 80, which is obviously a Whale Harder strategy. It's also not the only solution, instead you could learn to make use out of the weaker characters in your roster that don't get counted but can still get used. If you claim that they are guaranteed to be useless, I suspect you are using them against the wrong teams.

    The first point looks good on paper, but in practice you're really going to actively try to remove GMY or CLS out of your top 80 (as examples of zetas on useful toons that have outlived their usefulness)? And the same point about increasing your top 80 GP brings you into stiffer competition still applies. But agreed, whaling or not, moving under performing toons out of your compared set is one of the first steps towards getting more favorable match-ups (along with previously mentioned counter teams and mods).

    On the second point, matchmaking doesn't occur in a vacuum, so all of these super useful weaker characters that don't get counted won't get counted for your opponents either. There is zero net gain in your roster's comparative effectiveness if your opponent is doing the same thing.

    Matchmaking is always going to favor one roster composition over another. We can argue about fairness or equity all we want and we'll all be right and we'll all be wrong, all at the same time. Where your roster falls within the GP range allowed by your division has a massive impact on the type of match ups you get, etc. etc. There are so many variables and so many different experiences, yet everyone speaks from their single slice of experience as if it is gospel without acknowledging there may be other valid experiences.

    Honestly though, I'm not sure why that many people care all that much, outside of the urge to have one's success in the game mode be meaningful, or to have one's failings in the game mode excused. The reward differential isn't all that big, the rewards themselves are fine but aren't going to kill your roster progression if you don't participate. The game mode, especially 5v5, has become a formulaic check-the-box activity, and GAC History being public has changed the dynamic completely for some players. It's yet another big pile of "meh"
  • Waqui
    7724 posts Member
    Saada wrote: »
    No point arguing over and over...... your all not going to change your mind and neither are people who think mm can be improved.

    I also like @Akenno 's idea above since then people who are 5-1 won't be in the same league as someone who is 1-5

    Akenno suggested smaller (/more) divisions - not leagues.

    By introducing more leagues matches will have more even past performances. I like that better than most other suggestions.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    No point arguing over and over...... your all not going to change your mind and neither are people who think mm can be improved.

    I also like @Akenno 's idea above since then people who are 5-1 won't be in the same league as someone who is 1-5

    Akenno suggested smaller (/more) divisions - not leagues.

    By introducing more leagues matches will have more even past performances. I like that better than most other suggestions.

    Oh. I skimmed too quick lol But more leagues to separate winners and losers sounded good to me too
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