Fair for all guilds

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  • Jarvind
    3851 posts Member
    OP:

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  • Tazzz
    62 posts Member
    "Communism is a philosophical, social, political, economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money and the state."
    "The goal of communism is to create a stateless, classless society. Communist thinkers believe this can happen if the people take away the power of the bourgeoisie and establish worker control of the means of production."

    Maybe I'm exaggerating? But when in Rome...

    /participation
  • leef wrote: »
    ImaSmakya wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    ImaSmakya wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    The game needs to be fair. And that means to individuals as well.

    Again:
    Raids are guild events - not individual events.
    You seem to think that if you have more people you should have more access. That's wrong!! I don't care if they did away with the tickets all together and had a time limit between the finish and start of a particular raid. Then the larger guilds will get through it faster and be starting the next one sooner. You still have the advantage.

    What advantage? How fast you complete the raid has nothing to do with the amount of members in a guild, now that single players can complete the raids. Small guilds will do just as many raids as large guilds - and have the advantage of better rewards.
    Your way of thinking has driven off many players. We see this way is not working for many. Something needs to change in a fair way. And not in a way that one feels more entitled to access just because they have a larger group. That doesn't make any sense.

    Then change it. Recruit 25 new members, merge with another small guild or leave your guild for a larger one.

    “What advantage? How fast you complete the raid has nothing to do with the amount of members in a guild, now that single players can complete the raids.”

    There are guilds the do not have a member that can solo a raid, there are guilds that still can’t even complete a high level Sith raid. The number of members definitely has a bearing on how fast some guilds complete a given raid.

    Not leaning one way or the other on the fairness of the guild system, just clarifying some of the arguments.

    Edit: took out one of my points as the context seemed wrong.

    All it takes is one member, who can. It's got nothing to do with how many members a guild has.

    But many young guilds still don’t have that person so it most definitely has something to do with the number of members.

    There are also many young guilds that are full (50/50) but still can't clear the HSR, so maybe it has more to do with the age of the guild than the amount of members..

    Why can’t it be both, that’s why I said “something to do with it” and not “everything to do with it”. There is also team makeup and a whole lot of other factors that go into finishing a raid.
    DISCLAIMER: Post is subject to change.
  • Waqui
    8573 posts Member
    ImaSmakya wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    ImaSmakya wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    The game needs to be fair. And that means to individuals as well.

    Again:
    Raids are guild events - not individual events.
    You seem to think that if you have more people you should have more access. That's wrong!! I don't care if they did away with the tickets all together and had a time limit between the finish and start of a particular raid. Then the larger guilds will get through it faster and be starting the next one sooner. You still have the advantage.

    What advantage? How fast you complete the raid has nothing to do with the amount of members in a guild, now that single players can complete the raids. Small guilds will do just as many raids as large guilds - and have the advantage of better rewards.
    Your way of thinking has driven off many players. We see this way is not working for many. Something needs to change in a fair way. And not in a way that one feels more entitled to access just because they have a larger group. That doesn't make any sense.

    Then change it. Recruit 25 new members, merge with another small guild or leave your guild for a larger one.

    “What advantage? How fast you complete the raid has nothing to do with the amount of members in a guild, now that single players can complete the raids.”

    There are guilds the do not have a member that can solo a raid, there are guilds that still can’t even complete a high level Sith raid. The number of members definitely has a bearing on how fast some guilds complete a given raid.

    Not leaning one way or the other on the fairness of the guild system, just clarifying some of the arguments.

    Edit: took out one of my points as the context seemed wrong.

    All it takes is one member, who can. It's got nothing to do with how many members a guild has.

    But many young guilds still don’t have that person so it most definitely has something to do with the number of members.

    Young guilds and incomplete guilds are two different things.

    It's still has nothing to do with amount of members. It's about whether they have this one member who can solo raids. Either permanent member or mercenary.
  • Is this a stealth recruiting thread or a stealth free agent thread?
    I reject your reality and substitute my own.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    fair? How is it fair when 25 players earn just as many total tickets per day as 50?

    How is it fair that 25 players all put in just as much as you do individually and you think you deserve more just because you have 49 other people to lean on???

    Raids are guild events - not individual events. Complete guilds have an advantage over half complete guilds. Just as in TB.

    If a guild of 25 members could run as many raids as a guild of 50 members how would it be fair that the small guild receives rank 1-25 rewards while the complete guild receives rank 1-50 rewards and hence far worse rewards on average? Why on earth should the smaller guild have far better rewards on average? What would justify this?

    Again,
    You just gave a good example of the things screwed up with all this. The whole thing stinks. They pit you against your own team members by giving crappy rewards to the guys trying to move up and can't do as much damage as some of the others. So, let's punish them with crap rewards and hold them back even more. You guys are great!!!!
  • Waqui
    8573 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    fair? How is it fair when 25 players earn just as many total tickets per day as 50?

    How is it fair that 25 players all put in just as much as you do individually and you think you deserve more just because you have 49 other people to lean on???

    Raids are guild events - not individual events. Complete guilds have an advantage over half complete guilds. Just as in TB.

    If a guild of 25 members could run as many raids as a guild of 50 members how would it be fair that the small guild receives rank 1-25 rewards while the complete guild receives rank 1-50 rewards and hence far worse rewards on average? Why on earth should the smaller guild have far better rewards on average? What would justify this?

    Again,
    You just gave a good example of the things screwed up with all this. The whole thing stinks.

    It's an example that something is way off in your suggestion. I see no justification for giving members of small guilds better rewards for same or less effort as members in larger guilds. That's what you're asking.
    They pit you against your own team members by giving crappy rewards to the guys trying to move up and can't do as much damage as some of the others.

    It gives you something to strive for. Incentive to improve until you finaly reach the point where you can solo the whole raid. It's completely even between all who can solo the raid.
    So, let's punish them with crap rewards and hold them back even more. You guys are great!!!!

    If this is how you feel about it maybe you should discuss this with your guild leadership and organize some way to distribute rewards (or top ranks) between your members. Demanding better rewards than players in larger guilds receive doesn't make sense.

  • Damodamo
    1503 posts Member
    This thread is gold.. love that op asked @leef to let his roster prove things.. lmao..
  • Damodamo
    1503 posts Member
    @Kisermiester https://swgoh.gg/g/54991/fierce-gaming/

    That is why you don’t have a leg to stand on r.e making comments about your guild deserving more.. your group can’t even be bothered to make a gg page for a majority of your players... if your too lazy to do that, what exactly do you expect to happen with raids? If you want more, move to a bigger/better guild.
  • Damodamo wrote: »
    @Kisermiester https://swgoh.gg/g/54991/fierce-gaming/

    That is why you don’t have a leg to stand on r.e making comments about your guild deserving more.. your group can’t even be bothered to make a gg page for a majority of your players... if your too lazy to do that, what exactly do you expect to happen with raids? If you want more, move to a bigger/better guild.

    I guess that is what I'll have to do and leave my friends behind. Not the friendliest thing for me to do. It makes me feel really bad. I don't like feeling like I'm letting others down. I'm the one doing most of the work and if I leave they will most likely have a much worse experience. I'm not claiming that I do more work as an individual, they just don't have the roster I have. Therefore, they can't do as much. So that leaves me feeling as though I need to leave them and move to something that will help me grow. We are a really small guild. I've been playing this game for two years now and I've never even done a heroic raid yet. I'm not sure that I will beat it alone, so I'd rather do teir 6 and know that everyone will get something instead of taking a chance to fail and it take us a month or more to try again. It really sucks. I even made three accounts to help bring in more daily tickets. My main account is 3.36 mill GP. I'm doing all I can and will never get access to even unlock GK. Man, I've got some hard thinking to do. And it's a bit scary to jump in with a big guild where you don't know anyone and if they are going to help you or just use you.
  • Kyno
    32053 posts Moderator
    Damodamo wrote: »
    @Kisermiester https://swgoh.gg/g/54991/fierce-gaming/

    That is why you don’t have a leg to stand on r.e making comments about your guild deserving more.. your group can’t even be bothered to make a gg page for a majority of your players... if your too lazy to do that, what exactly do you expect to happen with raids? If you want more, move to a bigger/better guild.

    I guess that is what I'll have to do and leave my friends behind. Not the friendliest thing for me to do. It makes me feel really bad. I don't like feeling like I'm letting others down. I'm the one doing most of the work and if I leave they will most likely have a much worse experience. I'm not claiming that I do more work as an individual, they just don't have the roster I have. Therefore, they can't do as much. So that leaves me feeling as though I need to leave them and move to something that will help me grow. We are a really small guild. I've been playing this game for two years now and I've never even done a heroic raid yet. I'm not sure that I will beat it alone, so I'd rather do teir 6 and know that everyone will get something instead of taking a chance to fail and it take us a month or more to try again. It really sucks. I even made three accounts to help bring in more daily tickets. My main account is 3.36 mill GP. I'm doing all I can and will never get access to even unlock GK. Man, I've got some hard thinking to do. And it's a bit scary to jump in with a big guild where you don't know anyone and if they are going to help you or just use you.

    Many of (if not all) of the "big guilds" that would want you, are always open to letting you join the discord server, meet people and decide for yourself if it's something you want.

    You should try to not have such a bleak look on other groups. They were all strangers at one point or another too.
  • Damodamo wrote: »
    @Kisermiester https://swgoh.gg/g/54991/fierce-gaming/

    That is why you don’t have a leg to stand on r.e making comments about your guild deserving more.. your group can’t even be bothered to make a gg page for a majority of your players... if your too lazy to do that, what exactly do you expect to happen with raids? If you want more, move to a bigger/better guild.

    By the way, it has nothing to do with "lazy". I work a full time job, have to travel quite a bit and I'm in the middle of trying to get a house built. I didn't create a guild for the purposes of what you are thinking. I only created one for a few people I actually know outside of this game and asked them to start playing. The only two people in my guild that are actually active is my dad, 66 yrs old, and myself. I don't want to leave him behind just because he has less than 2 mill GP.
  • Damodamo
    1503 posts Member
    Damodamo wrote: »
    @Kisermiester https://swgoh.gg/g/54991/fierce-gaming/

    That is why you don’t have a leg to stand on r.e making comments about your guild deserving more.. your group can’t even be bothered to make a gg page for a majority of your players... if your too lazy to do that, what exactly do you expect to happen with raids? If you want more, move to a bigger/better guild.

    By the way, it has nothing to do with "lazy". I work a full time job, have to travel quite a bit and I'm in the middle of trying to get a house built. I didn't create a guild for the purposes of what you are thinking. I only created one for a few people I actually know outside of this game and asked them to start playing. The only two people in my guild that are actually active is my dad, 66 yrs old, and myself. I don't want to leave him behind just because he has less than 2 mill GP.

    By lazy, I meant not using the available tools to help them improve. If your other Guildys don’t use gg then that’s pretty much harming themselves. It’s a useful tool. I think your guild had 6 or 7 members, you said you had three alts as well in one of your replies, plus your dad, so your sticking around for 2 people who don’t play much? Why don’t you look for a guild doing a merge and see if you can get you, your dad and your friends into something else. Might be worth doing!
  • Waqui
    8573 posts Member
    edited March 2020
    Damodamo wrote: »
    @Kisermiester https://swgoh.gg/g/54991/fierce-gaming/

    That is why you don’t have a leg to stand on r.e making comments about your guild deserving more.. your group can’t even be bothered to make a gg page for a majority of your players... if your too lazy to do that, what exactly do you expect to happen with raids? If you want more, move to a bigger/better guild.

    I guess that is what I'll have to do and leave my friends behind. Not the friendliest thing for me to do. It makes me feel really bad. I don't like feeling like I'm letting others down. I'm the one doing most of the work and if I leave they will most likely have a much worse experience. I'm not claiming that I do more work as an individual, they just don't have the roster I have. Therefore, they can't do as much. So that leaves me feeling as though I need to leave them and move to something that will help me grow. We are a really small guild. I've been playing this game for two years now and I've never even done a heroic raid yet. I'm not sure that I will beat it alone, so I'd rather do teir 6 and know that everyone will get something instead of taking a chance to fail and it take us a month or more to try again. It really sucks. I even made three accounts to help bring in more daily tickets. My main account is 3.36 mill GP. I'm doing all I can and will never get access to even unlock GK. Man, I've got some hard thinking to do. And it's a bit scary to jump in with a big guild where you don't know anyone and if they are going to help you or just use you.

    2 years without having ever done a heroic raid? Months between doing raids? Wauw! The general advice is to join an active guild doing heroic raids as soon as you get your first 7* character. Your problem is not game design. Your problem is your choices and priorities. You are holding yourself back. It's not the game.

    There are several guilds out there with room for all of you. You don't need to leave your friends behind. Just move as a group if you prefer. I'm sure you will regret not moving years ago.

    (on a side note: You can easily solo heroic pit raids with your roster. I don't know what's holding you back.)
    Post edited by Waqui on
  • @Kisermiester Many guilds would be happy to have you and your dad if you're getting your 600 daily tickets. If the group of people you're playing with can't even bother to do that, than you absolutely need to find more committed and like minded players.

    I was in a random guild my first six months before I realized how much it was hurting my development in the game. I viewed the Guilds Looking for Players section and found a guild full of like minded and genuinely fun and good people, which turned the GoH experience from good to awesome for me.

    You owe it to yourself to do it. You don't owe anything to players who can't be bothered to get 600 tickets per day.
  • I get what the OP is trying to say, but I don't understand why they are deciding to stay in a smaller guild. Raids run less frequently, TB is also a huge disadvantage. With negotiator, malevolence behind get2 and GAS, malak, Hermit Yoda, Wampa behind get1 as well as wat, rolo, probe droid, kit mundi earned within TB events. To be arguing for ways to even it out for raids is irrelevant. TB cannot be levelled out. Get in a guild of 50 members. If your guild of 25 is a great, close knit group then you would br able to maintain that with a merger.

    This isn't an individual game, you need a guild that matches your level and goals. I guess if unlocking toons like WAT in 2 years as opposed to one, then stay in your smaller guild.
  • Miketo28 wrote: »
    I get what the OP is trying to say, but I don't understand why they are deciding to stay in a smaller guild. Raids run less frequently, TB is also a huge disadvantage. With negotiator, malevolence behind get2 and GAS, malak, Hermit Yoda, Wampa behind get1 as well as wat, rolo, probe droid, kit mundi earned within TB events. To be arguing for ways to even it out for raids is irrelevant. TB cannot be levelled out. Get in a guild of 50 members. If your guild of 25 is a great, close knit group then you would br able to maintain that with a merger.

    This isn't an individual game, you need a guild that matches your level and goals. I guess if unlocking toons like WAT in 2 years as opposed to one, then stay in your smaller guild.

    Don't worry, I switched to a larger guild. Was killing me to do so because I didn't want to leave some. This was taring me up and was trying to think of ways that would help smaller guilds to have access to the raids. Even if it was only once a week or two weeks on the harder ones. It was a nightmare just to get enough tickets to play. I'm over it now. But I still feel for the smaller guilds. I will never say that I don't understand their pain. That's for sure. But on the bright side, I am enjoying the benefits of being in a larger guild now. It's making the game much more pleasant as you get to be involved with more and more often.
  • Gifafi
    5697 posts Member
    Some guilds are more equal than others
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • I'm starting to realize just how much I was missing out on. I knew it was a good bit, but didn't realize exactly how much until joining a larger guild. Man, I should have done this two years ago!!! For those out there wanting to stick with your peeps, I completely understand. But, I implore you to think twice about it. I don't think the game will change as far as small guilds go. So, merge or join a larger guild. You will be much more happier with the results. It was killing me to the point of wanting to rant. But I've lost out on a lot in two years.
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