Time to change GA matchmaking?

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Replies

  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    4. If everything else is equal, those two rosters won't be matched, since that full R7 SE team will be part of the top-X characters. OP's case is in the "relicing ewok instead of Sith empire" category - only not that extreme.


    https://swgoh.gg/p/447269618/gac-history/?gac=24&r=3
    https://swgoh.gg/p/132267218/characters/

    I may have used an extreme example but I ask how I could have developed my roster to defeat my last opponent. I realize I could have made better choices both during match, and on my relics but I believe I would be hard pressed to have counters for Gas, Malak and GG and still have viable def. Most if not all my zetas and gear 12 characters that I don't (would perfer not to) use in gac were done before gac.
    Please note I did not have a reliced Vader and I believe my opponents 5s was only relic 3.

    I see you quoted me, but I don't see the relation between what you quoted and your own comment. Please elaborate if you want a more thorough response than this:

    If you have trouble beating GAS teams either don't put your counters on defense or spend your resources building another GAS counter (instead of taking Sabine to g12 w. zeta, taking BH to R4 and such). Also try building more complete teams (your g12 GG is not much good without g13 and the support of separatists, your clones are mediocre at best without Shaak Ti or GAS to lead them etc.).

    Your opponent built a much stronger roster for GAC and deserves the win.

    I quoted you because you suggested extreme relic discrepancies don't happen.

    If that's how you read my words I would suggest that you read them again. First Vi1tetan's comment:
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    4- that mismatches are only about choices, I get if I relic ewok instead of sith empire I'm in trouble, that's different than if my opponent has a full relic 7 sith empire and I haven't unlocked Revan yet and everything else is equal.

    Then my respons:
    Waqui wrote: »
    4. If everything else is equal, those two rosters won't be matched, since that full R7 SE team will be part of the top-X characters. OP's case is in the "relicing ewok instead of Sith empire" category - only not that extreme.

    How on earth do you interpret that as "extreme relic discrepancies don't happen."?

  • Vi1teran_
    218 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    4. If everything else is equal, those two rosters won't be matched, since that full R7 SE team will be part of the top-X characters. OP's case is in the "relicing ewok instead of Sith empire" category - only not that extreme.


    https://swgoh.gg/p/447269618/gac-history/?gac=24&r=3
    https://swgoh.gg/p/132267218/characters/

    I may have used an extreme example but I ask how I could have developed my roster to defeat my last opponent. I realize I could have made better choices both during match, and on my relics but I believe I would be hard pressed to have counters for Gas, Malak and GG and still have viable def. Most if not all my zetas and gear 12 characters that I don't (would perfer not to) use in gac were done before gac.
    Please note I did not have a reliced Vader and I believe my opponents 5s was only relic 3.

    I see you quoted me, but I don't see the relation between what you quoted and your own comment. Please elaborate if you want a more thorough response than this:

    If you have trouble beating GAS teams either don't put your counters on defense or spend your resources building another GAS counter (instead of taking Sabine to g12 w. zeta, taking BH to R4 and such). Also try building more complete teams (your g12 GG is not much good without g13 and the support of separatists, your clones are mediocre at best without Shaak Ti or GAS to lead them etc.).

    Your opponent built a much stronger roster for GAC and deserves the win.

    I quoted you because you suggested extreme relic discrepancies don't happen.

    If that's how you read my words I would suggest that you read them again. First Vi1tetan's comment:
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    4- that mismatches are only about choices, I get if I relic ewok instead of sith empire I'm in trouble, that's different than if my opponent has a full relic 7 sith empire and I haven't unlocked Revan yet and everything else is equal.

    Then my respons:
    Waqui wrote: »
    4. If everything else is equal, those two rosters won't be matched, since that full R7 SE team will be part of the top-X characters. OP's case is in the "relicing ewok instead of Sith empire" category - only not that extreme.

    How on earth do you interpret that as "extreme relic discrepancies don't happen."?

    You'll have to explain what you meant then because I don't understand why you believe that someone couldn't have 5 relic 7 characters be the only difference in rosters.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    4. If everything else is equal, those two rosters won't be matched, since that full R7 SE team will be part of the top-X characters. OP's case is in the "relicing ewok instead of Sith empire" category - only not that extreme.


    https://swgoh.gg/p/447269618/gac-history/?gac=24&r=3
    https://swgoh.gg/p/132267218/characters/

    I may have used an extreme example but I ask how I could have developed my roster to defeat my last opponent. I realize I could have made better choices both during match, and on my relics but I believe I would be hard pressed to have counters for Gas, Malak and GG and still have viable def. Most if not all my zetas and gear 12 characters that I don't (would perfer not to) use in gac were done before gac.
    Please note I did not have a reliced Vader and I believe my opponents 5s was only relic 3.

    I see you quoted me, but I don't see the relation between what you quoted and your own comment. Please elaborate if you want a more thorough response than this:

    If you have trouble beating GAS teams either don't put your counters on defense or spend your resources building another GAS counter (instead of taking Sabine to g12 w. zeta, taking BH to R4 and such). Also try building more complete teams (your g12 GG is not much good without g13 and the support of separatists, your clones are mediocre at best without Shaak Ti or GAS to lead them etc.).

    Your opponent built a much stronger roster for GAC and deserves the win.

    I quoted you because you suggested extreme relic discrepancies don't happen.

    If that's how you read my words I would suggest that you read them again. First Vi1tetan's comment:
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    4- that mismatches are only about choices, I get if I relic ewok instead of sith empire I'm in trouble, that's different than if my opponent has a full relic 7 sith empire and I haven't unlocked Revan yet and everything else is equal.

    Then my respons:
    Waqui wrote: »
    4. If everything else is equal, those two rosters won't be matched, since that full R7 SE team will be part of the top-X characters. OP's case is in the "relicing ewok instead of Sith empire" category - only not that extreme.

    How on earth do you interpret that as "extreme relic discrepancies don't happen."?

    You'll have to explain what you meant then because I don't understand why you believe that someone couldn't have 5 relic 7 characters be the only difference in rosters.

    If everything else is equal (your words) and you add those 5 R7 characters (SE team) and a JKR at whatever gear/relic level to one roster, then those two rosters won't be matched. It's a rather large difference in top-X GP.

    Yes, huge differences in relic levels happen, but not with all else being equal.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    4. If everything else is equal, those two rosters won't be matched, since that full R7 SE team will be part of the top-X characters. OP's case is in the "relicing ewok instead of Sith empire" category - only not that extreme.


    https://swgoh.gg/p/447269618/gac-history/?gac=24&r=3
    https://swgoh.gg/p/132267218/characters/

    I may have used an extreme example but I ask how I could have developed my roster to defeat my last opponent. I realize I could have made better choices both during match, and on my relics but I believe I would be hard pressed to have counters for Gas, Malak and GG and still have viable def. Most if not all my zetas and gear 12 characters that I don't (would perfer not to) use in gac were done before gac.
    Please note I did not have a reliced Vader and I believe my opponents 5s was only relic 3.

    I see you quoted me, but I don't see the relation between what you quoted and your own comment. Please elaborate if you want a more thorough response than this:

    If you have trouble beating GAS teams either don't put your counters on defense or spend your resources building another GAS counter (instead of taking Sabine to g12 w. zeta, taking BH to R4 and such). Also try building more complete teams (your g12 GG is not much good without g13 and the support of separatists, your clones are mediocre at best without Shaak Ti or GAS to lead them etc.).

    Your opponent built a much stronger roster for GAC and deserves the win.

    I quoted you because you suggested extreme relic discrepancies don't happen.

    If that's how you read my words I would suggest that you read them again. First Vi1tetan's comment:
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    4- that mismatches are only about choices, I get if I relic ewok instead of sith empire I'm in trouble, that's different than if my opponent has a full relic 7 sith empire and I haven't unlocked Revan yet and everything else is equal.

    Then my respons:
    Waqui wrote: »
    4. If everything else is equal, those two rosters won't be matched, since that full R7 SE team will be part of the top-X characters. OP's case is in the "relicing ewok instead of Sith empire" category - only not that extreme.

    How on earth do you interpret that as "extreme relic discrepancies don't happen."?

    You'll have to explain what you meant then because I don't understand why you believe that someone couldn't have 5 relic 7 characters be the only difference in rosters.

    If everything else is equal (your words) and you add those 5 R7 characters (SE team) and a JKR at whatever gear/relic level to one roster, then those two rosters won't be matched. It's a rather large difference in top-X GP.

    Yes, huge differences in relic levels happen, but not with all else being equal.

    Ok sorry I misspoke I meant equal teams not exact and Darth Revan not JKR. Assuming the additional team, to make up the 80 for division 2 around 80k. It would be around 70 k spread over 75 characters to make the Not exactly outrageous bloat in my opinion. I stated it was an extreme example and I realize it's unlikely but I believe there should be some mitigation for this.

    Regardless someone answered my actual question so I'm good. Thanks
  • TVF wrote: »
    .

    Now that is the kind of post that is pure intellect I expect from TVF. I’m sure everyone would like to see more these kinds of posts from you. Brilliant insight as always...
  • TVF
    36526 posts Member
    IronCross wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    .

    Now that is the kind of post that is pure intellect I expect from TVF. I’m sure everyone would like to see more these kinds of posts from you. Brilliant insight as always...

    Sometimes, people make mistakes. In this case, I posted something, realized it was in the wrong thread, and deleted it the only way possible. I made a mistake.

    Now, as you have also made a mistake, but paired it with an insult, I will hear your plea for forgiveness.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    IronCross wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    .

    Now that is the kind of post that is pure intellect I expect from TVF. I’m sure everyone would like to see more these kinds of posts from you. Brilliant insight as always...

    Sometimes, people make mistakes. In this case, I posted something, realized it was in the wrong thread, and deleted it the only way possible. I made a mistake.

    Now, as you have also made a mistake, but paired it with an insult, I will hear your plea for forgiveness.

    Oh I’m quite sure it was a real gem.
  • CosmicJ
    348 posts Member
    CosmicJ wrote: »
    Paulos999 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Paulos999 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    I can't help myself.

    Why do you need them all *now*?

    You need them when you are ready for Kylo. You are not ready. That's your choice.

    But you put the gear on while working on them, maybe I should just farm all that gear and not place any until I’m ready for them wouldn’t that be fun imagine trying to work out what you need and not placing any of it.

    You’re trying to blame poor matchmaking because I’ve got a few toons at relic that you consider fluff and because I don’t want to take an inventory and I place gear as and when I get it.

    Yes.

    I take inventory and equip nothing until it's fully usable for my intended purposes. Which includes unlocking a meta toon.

    Sorry you don't find that fun. It explains everything though.

    See ya round. But not in GAC lol.

    Yeah I don’t expect you to see it as wrong as you will always defend them every chance you get.

    Don’t expect anything to change either tbh but all we can do is try ey, imagine having to take an inventory of relic material needed Aswell who has time for that it’s a game not a job but if you wanna spend all your time doing that, guess that’s your choice.

    Take care

    It is his choice to spend that time, and its why he (and these other guys you are fighting) have more competitive rosters than you do.

    In the end, this game is as much about creating a competitive roster as it is about using that roster.

    100% it is their choice to do what they are doing and I agree with this statement. I disagree about the "having a more competitive roster" though. All OP, myself and countless others are asking for is an adjustment in how the MM system currently works. I'm sure there are many factors besides just top X toons going on in the background but it's silly to go on and on back and forth if you are an open minded person that knows this system is easily manipulated by people intentionally. Instead of fighting people just like them, they fight the easiest battles imaginable. Just take 10 minutes and go through some of their GAC histories.

    Most of them aren't even battling GL's at all as a result. Also look at the defense they put down. In my brackets, defenses like that would be picked apart @60+ banners. They throw their GLs down in the most rewarded zone and call it a day without worrying about losing. Any system that can allow that isn't a very reliable system at all. If you can't see that or the problem with that, you are either doing it yourself or just here to go back and forth with others who want this to change.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with facing a GL when you don't have one yourself as long as the rosters are even but just look at the scores of their matches, they aren't even in the same ballpark.... period.

    I'm not disputing that GAC is easier right now for players that have GL's vs players who don't. Of course it is.

    The matchmaking is simply looking your top 80 characters (and then i believe it also factors in your league). It's completely up to the player to decide how they build their top 80.

    See the thing is, if the matchmaking looked at all aspects of your roster and perfectly matched you to someone else (same gp, same mods, same gear, same character, same everything) it would be kinda dull imo. Boring AF. I mean go play an fps if you want to play a game that's purely based on player battle skill.

    Additionally i like the process of creating a competitive roster that makes my gac battles easier. You might give it a negative connotation with the word "manipulation" but it's strategic roster choices that give you the best chance of winning that game mode. When you get matched 'unfairly' know that a LOT of strategic planning, work (or money) has gone into your opponents roster before matchmaking even happened.
  • Bkb
    22 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    • R5 Bossk
    • R5 Jango
    • R5 Wampa
    • R5 KRU
    • R4 EP
    • R4 MT
    • R5 Boba
    • R7 Marauder
    • R5 Vet Han
    • R4 Dooku
    • R3 Sion
    • R3 DN
    • R3 Young Lando
    • R3 Zaalbar
    • R3 Vandor Chew

    This is why you are getting the matchups you are getting.

    Now compare to my roster.

    https://swgoh.gg/p/279847465/characters/

    I only relic what is necessary and as far as is necessary. My roster is entirely Arena and GAC focused. Yours is not. That's fine, but you are blaming CG for your own choices.

    Hi I found your comments very intuitive. Might I ask if a new player like me shall focus on top XX number of characters (in GAC MM range) or a more balanced one?

    From your comments I think the latter one?

    Hold one strong team for arena, and the rest are evenly geared?
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Bkb wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    • R5 Bossk
    • R5 Jango
    • R5 Wampa
    • R5 KRU
    • R4 EP
    • R4 MT
    • R5 Boba
    • R7 Marauder
    • R5 Vet Han
    • R4 Dooku
    • R3 Sion
    • R3 DN
    • R3 Young Lando
    • R3 Zaalbar
    • R3 Vandor Chew

    This is why you are getting the matchups you are getting.

    Now compare to my roster.

    https://swgoh.gg/p/279847465/characters/

    I only relic what is necessary and as far as is necessary. My roster is entirely Arena and GAC focused. Yours is not. That's fine, but you are blaming CG for your own choices.

    Hi I found your comments very intuitive. Might I ask if a new player like me shall focus on top XX number of characters (in GAC MM range) or a more balanced one?

    From your comments I think the latter one?

    Hold one strong team for arena, and the rest are evenly geared?

    Depends on your current roster and what your focus is. If your focus is GAC only gear the characters that are viable for GAC and only gear them enough for them to do their job.

    However, if I was a new player, I personally wouldn't worry too much about GAC. There are so many legendary (etc.) characters to unlock for other purposes.
  • Bkb
    22 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    Bkb wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    • R5 Bossk
    • R5 Jango
    • R5 Wampa
    • R5 KRU
    • R4 EP
    • R4 MT
    • R5 Boba
    • R7 Marauder
    • R5 Vet Han
    • R4 Dooku
    • R3 Sion
    • R3 DN
    • R3 Young Lando
    • R3 Zaalbar
    • R3 Vandor Chew

    This is why you are getting the matchups you are getting.

    Now compare to my roster.

    https://swgoh.gg/p/279847465/characters/

    I only relic what is necessary and as far as is necessary. My roster is entirely Arena and GAC focused. Yours is not. That's fine, but you are blaming CG for your own choices.

    Hi I found your comments very intuitive. Might I ask if a new player like me shall focus on top XX number of characters (in GAC MM range) or a more balanced one?

    From your comments I think the latter one?

    Hold one strong team for arena, and the rest are evenly geared?

    Depends on your current roster and what your focus is. If your focus is GAC only gear the characters that are viable for GAC and only gear them enough for them to do their job.

    However, if I was a new player, I personally wouldn't worry too much about GAC. There are so many legendary (etc.) characters to unlock for other purposes.

    I am trying to get SLKR (I know it is not a good start for new player).

    My profile:
    https://swgoh.gg/p/143966161/

    About to unlock CLS and later level up Ewoks.

    In my recent GACs, I faced a lot of ppl with nearly 50k+ character GP than me, making a full clear difficult. Is that because I have too much ship GP?

    Any recommended path for me to go? Farming Geo now.

    Thanks in advance.
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    Bkb wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Bkb wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    • R5 Bossk
    • R5 Jango
    • R5 Wampa
    • R5 KRU
    • R4 EP
    • R4 MT
    • R5 Boba
    • R7 Marauder
    • R5 Vet Han
    • R4 Dooku
    • R3 Sion
    • R3 DN
    • R3 Young Lando
    • R3 Zaalbar
    • R3 Vandor Chew

    This is why you are getting the matchups you are getting.

    Now compare to my roster.

    https://swgoh.gg/p/279847465/characters/

    I only relic what is necessary and as far as is necessary. My roster is entirely Arena and GAC focused. Yours is not. That's fine, but you are blaming CG for your own choices.

    Hi I found your comments very intuitive. Might I ask if a new player like me shall focus on top XX number of characters (in GAC MM range) or a more balanced one?

    From your comments I think the latter one?

    Hold one strong team for arena, and the rest are evenly geared?

    Depends on your current roster and what your focus is. If your focus is GAC only gear the characters that are viable for GAC and only gear them enough for them to do their job.

    However, if I was a new player, I personally wouldn't worry too much about GAC. There are so many legendary (etc.) characters to unlock for other purposes.

    I am trying to get SLKR (I know it is not a good start for new player).

    My profile:
    https://swgoh.gg/p/143966161/

    About to unlock CLS and later level up Ewoks.

    In my recent GACs, I faced a lot of ppl with nearly 50k+ character GP than me, making a full clear difficult. Is that because I have too much ship GP?

    Any recommended path for me to go? Farming Geo now.

    Thanks in advance.

    Matchmaking is not made on your entire character gp, but top x character gp. X for me is 80 in div1 (8 teams*10). For you it's the no of slots (shipless gac)*10.

    I have no idea what would be best tactic at that low gp, but you can try to pave your way always considering it's contribution to your top x. Of course better toons are completely worth it. Use this sorting to easily see where your cutoff is.

    bpfg4f9ptys9.png
    ubhfleer7zuu.png

  • Bkb
    22 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Bkb wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Bkb wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    • R5 Bossk
    • R5 Jango
    • R5 Wampa
    • R5 KRU
    • R4 EP
    • R4 MT
    • R5 Boba
    • R7 Marauder
    • R5 Vet Han
    • R4 Dooku
    • R3 Sion
    • R3 DN
    • R3 Young Lando
    • R3 Zaalbar
    • R3 Vandor Chew

    This is why you are getting the matchups you are getting.

    Now compare to my roster.

    https://swgoh.gg/p/279847465/characters/

    I only relic what is necessary and as far as is necessary. My roster is entirely Arena and GAC focused. Yours is not. That's fine, but you are blaming CG for your own choices.

    Hi I found your comments very intuitive. Might I ask if a new player like me shall focus on top XX number of characters (in GAC MM range) or a more balanced one?

    From your comments I think the latter one?

    Hold one strong team for arena, and the rest are evenly geared?

    Depends on your current roster and what your focus is. If your focus is GAC only gear the characters that are viable for GAC and only gear them enough for them to do their job.

    However, if I was a new player, I personally wouldn't worry too much about GAC. There are so many legendary (etc.) characters to unlock for other purposes.

    I am trying to get SLKR (I know it is not a good start for new player).

    My profile:
    https://swgoh.gg/p/143966161/

    About to unlock CLS and later level up Ewoks.

    In my recent GACs, I faced a lot of ppl with nearly 50k+ character GP than me, making a full clear difficult. Is that because I have too much ship GP?

    Any recommended path for me to go? Farming Geo now.

    Thanks in advance.

    Matchmaking is not made on your entire character gp, but top x character gp. X for me is 80 in div1 (8 teams*10). For you it's the no of slots (shipless gac)*10.

    I have no idea what would be best tactic at that low gp, but you can try to pave your way always considering it's contribution to your top x. Of course better toons are completely worth it. Use this sorting to easily see where your cutoff is.

    bpfg4f9ptys9.png
    ubhfleer7zuu.png

    Thanks! 🤩
  • IronCross wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    IronCross wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    .

    Now that is the kind of post that is pure intellect I expect from TVF. I’m sure everyone would like to see more these kinds of posts from you. Brilliant insight as always...

    Sometimes, people make mistakes. In this case, I posted something, realized it was in the wrong thread, and deleted it the only way possible. I made a mistake.

    Now, as you have also made a mistake, but paired it with an insult, I will hear your plea for forgiveness.

    Oh I’m quite sure it was a real gem.

    ^Getting angry over nothing.^

    You can't delete posts, so you have to erase what you wrote and put a single character.

    Use common sense man.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Bkb wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Bkb wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    • R5 Bossk
    • R5 Jango
    • R5 Wampa
    • R5 KRU
    • R4 EP
    • R4 MT
    • R5 Boba
    • R7 Marauder
    • R5 Vet Han
    • R4 Dooku
    • R3 Sion
    • R3 DN
    • R3 Young Lando
    • R3 Zaalbar
    • R3 Vandor Chew

    This is why you are getting the matchups you are getting.

    Now compare to my roster.

    https://swgoh.gg/p/279847465/characters/

    I only relic what is necessary and as far as is necessary. My roster is entirely Arena and GAC focused. Yours is not. That's fine, but you are blaming CG for your own choices.

    Hi I found your comments very intuitive. Might I ask if a new player like me shall focus on top XX number of characters (in GAC MM range) or a more balanced one?

    From your comments I think the latter one?

    Hold one strong team for arena, and the rest are evenly geared?

    Depends on your current roster and what your focus is. If your focus is GAC only gear the characters that are viable for GAC and only gear them enough for them to do their job.

    However, if I was a new player, I personally wouldn't worry too much about GAC. There are so many legendary (etc.) characters to unlock for other purposes.

    I am trying to get SLKR (I know it is not a good start for new player).

    My profile:
    https://swgoh.gg/p/143966161/

    About to unlock CLS and later level up Ewoks.

    In my recent GACs, I faced a lot of ppl with nearly 50k+ character GP than me, making a full clear difficult. Is that because I have too much ship GP?

    Any recommended path for me to go? Farming Geo now.

    Thanks in advance.

    Based on your recent GAC history you need to work on a counter for geonosians (or learn how to counter them with your empire team) and a counter for separatist droids (nute/GG lead).
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