Is cheese vs GL Rey in GAC cheating?

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U235
10 posts Member
So I fought this guy in GAC a few weeks ago and I finally got around to checking what he used to beat my teams I set on Defense and I found that he went in vs my GL Rey team with a level 21 Tusken Raider for the first battle... then for the 2nd battle he attacked my Rey team with a level 85 G12 Kanan Jarrus... then for the 3rd battle he went in with a level 85 gear 12 Chief Nebit then for the 4th battle he went in with a level 85 Gear 12 Greedo... now some might think he was bluffing me into attacking him but what really happened was this... my GL rey kept burning health untill she was down to 30% or lower. Then for the 5th battle he brought in his GAS and Clone troopers team all relic 7 and cleaned house.

What I want to know is this kind of game play encouraged and not considered cheating? Because if it is not cheating I have a bunch of crappy charcters that are no good (because they have never got reworks) that I can yse to employ this tactic to take out Rey...

Thank you in advanced for your rapid response to this issue CG =)

Replies

  • Nihion
    3002 posts Member
    That's not cheating, that's just tactics

    Literally. He still wasted points to beat that GL Rey, it’s not like he beat her first or second attempt.
  • KueChael
    835 posts Moderator
    I’ll ask. But I’m pretty sure its strategy.
  • Deathbringer59
    199 posts Member
    edited July 28
    If they were to beat you using just that one tusken on the first match, that would be cheating. He/she made sure Reys TM was feasible, health below 30% and abilities were on cooldown was good where he/she can effectively beat it with GAS.

    Edit; for loosing 2 times they lost quite a bit of banners. This tactic wouldn't be close to cheesing, exploiting or cheating. Just strategic planning on how to wittle reys health down for a clean up
  • U235
    10 posts Member
    That's not cheating, that's just tactics

    I would think that it is exploiting a flaw in the combat systems AI...
  • U235
    10 posts Member
    If they were to beat you using just that one tusken on the first match, that would be cheating. He/she made sure Reys TM was feasible, health below 30% and abilities were on cooldown was good where he/she can effectively beat it with GAS.

    no he went in with 4 single man teams until Rey sacrificed herself down below 30% health then took a "real" team in and beat it.
  • Deathbringer59
    199 posts Member
    edited July 28
    even still they lost alot of banners in doing so. Compared to going in with 1 team then cleaning up right after that. If their opponent were to clear as much territories with less losses they would win despite beating the Rey
  • TVF
    24979 posts Member
    Slaveen wrote: »
    Doesn’t change the fact that for a Galactic Legend, Rey is trash. Yes, she’s the 2nd best toon in the game. Yes, she’s still trash compared to SLKR.

    Rey owners, you’ve been duped by CG. They’re laughing their way to the bank.

    Wrong thread
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • I don’t have a GL and did something very similar this past round. Got through the GL Rey wall but only got 20 banners. All clear but lost by 40. There you have it - cheese or not it’s a lot of banners and against a decent opponent makes a win very difficult but let me play out my GAC
  • Nihion
    3002 posts Member
    U235 wrote: »
    If they were to beat you using just that one tusken on the first match, that would be cheating. He/she made sure Reys TM was feasible, health below 30% and abilities were on cooldown was good where he/she can effectively beat it with GAS.

    no he went in with 4 single man teams until Rey sacrificed herself down below 30% health then took a "real" team in and beat it.

    That’s still not cheating, it’s using your resources and knowledge of the character’s AI. I think the fact that he made a sacrifice proves the strategy in it, and not cheating. It’s not a “cheese” method, it’s a sacrificial tactic.
  • kello_511
    1387 posts Member
    IMO it’s fine.
    It’s not the “cheese” team that’s winning the battle, it still requires a strong meta team even after wearing her down (at the expense of banners).

    Not all that different from killing a toon in a revive team and then running out the clock so they don’t come back.
  • Antario
    211 posts Member
    edited July 28
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Legit question - why is doing this considered, by some, a "legit strategy using knowledge of the AI" but using Fives against SLKR is considered "cheese"?

    Because there is nothing wrong with the game mechanics. It is working as intended and there is no or very little advantage gain (also in relation to the actual effort you put in).

    While in case of Cheese, the game mechanics is not working as intended by the developer. You get a huge advantage gain by exploiting it.

    And btw. Cheese is not Cheating.

    Cheese is exploiting game mechanics.

    Cheating is manipulating game mechanics.


  • Antario
    211 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Antario wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Legit question - why is doing this considered, by some, a "legit strategy using knowledge of the AI" but using Fives against SLKR is considered "cheese"?

    Because there is nothing wrong with the game mechanics. It is working as intended and there is no or very little advantage gain (also in relation to the actual effort you put in).

    While in case of Cheese, the game mechanics is not working as intended by the developer. You get a huge advantage gain by exploiting it.

    And btw. Cheese is not Cheating.

    Cheese is exploiting game mechanics.

    Cheating is manipulating game mechanics.


    But in both cases, you end up beating a team with a team you are not "supposed" to be able to beat them with....and ironically , it's pretty much the same team in both cases - which, again, in both cases is the advantage gained.

    ETA : it's clearly not cheating. But it does seem like an AI weakness the developers should look into...just like they did when Kylo's AI weaknesses were used against him.

    First of all I would never generalize by saying one team is not supposed to beat another team. You can even use a Phoenix team to beat a GL Rey team, if you have mods, zetas, gear/relic level, team composition (and last but not least RNG) all considered.

    Advantages are gained in both cases for sure, but it has been pointed out earlier in this thread that by beating a team in the sixth attempt (by the way not as consistent as you might think) is different than cheesing a GL team in the very first attempt. And in GAC, every banner counts. If you can use the same strategy in the Arena, then it's a different story, but luckily you can't. In Arena only cheesing works and therefore it should be changed for good.

    Let's be honest, AI in this game will always have weaknesses. That's a fact, not only for Rey. It all depends on how much advantage you can gain from those weaknesses. Definitely it does not make sense to chase after each and every AI weakness. If AI has no weakness, I'm pretty sure many people won't enjoy this game as much as they do right now. Btw. I think that might also be the reason why many people here are against the introduction of live PvP, but that's a different topic.
  • Nihion
    3002 posts Member
    The AI weakness only applies when multiple attempts are taken, meaning that this can only happen in GAC and TW, where more attempts penalizes you. However, if a fix was deemed necessary, they could just have Rey reset her health at the start of each encounter.
  • Pretty smart if you ask me. Guy dumped a bunch of points to get through. Don't think you should expect just because you have a GL on defense that no one should be able to get through it.
  • So SLKR using bad AI but with a reason (targeting a character to prevent his sacrifice that will lead to the defeat under gas lead) ---- not ok, needs a buff that will decuplate its efficiency in defense against everyone

    Rey using bad AI and with no reason (removing her own health against non geared toons) --- ok, well you know the story. Rey is fine, she is awesome, nothing to see here, it is called tactic blablabla

    Nice one. I will add it to the list. Very funny. What a joke. This is going more and more absurd lol
  • Cheating: no.

    Exploiting the AI with under-geared/undersized squads: 100% YES

    This is the same reason Kylo had his AI tweaked both times. @Kyno can we please present this to the devs if it hasn't been. This is another blatant example of preferential treatment towards one GL while neglecting the other when they were promoted as 'balanced.'
  • U235 wrote: »
    That's not cheating, that's just tactics

    I would think that it is exploiting a flaw in the combat systems AI...

    That is all this game really is when you think about it. The AI plays terribly 99.5% of the time. Take Padme for example. She kicks DR rear but when the AI plays her she'll use her stun when her team is all full of debuffs instead of cleansing and giving them all stacks of murderville. Soooo many more examples out there as well. It's probably my 2nd largest complaint about this game. I would love the AI to be increased but the majority do not want that. "You'll lose more and then you won't be thinking that still will you?" Yes, yes I would still think that cause it would be more enjoyable to actually have to use brain power.
  • EdSolo
    185 posts Member
    Honestly no different than if they used four full teams. No different than sending in a sacrificial team against Thrawn to get rid of his fracture. You are supposed to be able to use your whole roster in GAC. You still got four successful defenses out of it and he still used up his GAS team to get minimum banners.
  • Nihion
    3002 posts Member
    Mirkraag wrote: »
    So SLKR using bad AI but with a reason (targeting a character to prevent his sacrifice that will lead to the defeat under gas lead) ---- not ok, needs a buff that will decuplate its efficiency in defense against everyone

    Rey using bad AI and with no reason (removing her own health against non geared toons) --- ok, well you know the story. Rey is fine, she is awesome, nothing to see here, it is called tactic blablabla

    Nice one. I will add it to the list. Very funny. What a joke. This is going more and more absurd lol

    This is completely different than those AI issues, which you apparently all looked over. Those were squads that could beat SLKR by themselves. This is multiple teams. Multiple teams cost points in the modes where you can use more than one team. That means that they pay the price for this attack.
    1) The toons have to be geared enough to survive until Rey loses health.
    2) Their TW and GAC points still decrease, opening up a possible lead for you.
    3)They still have to use a good team to finish her off.
    This doesn’t suddenly make Rey useless. She still might only be second best, but that’s mighty high compared to third best. Besides, this person had to be smart enough to figure this out; how many people out there do you think are actually going to get this right as well?
  • It seems like a dirty win but it’s just a strategy. It would be nice if they would give rey the same treatment they gave kylo though. However I do find kylo much easier to beat with JKL on the squad so it’s whatever
  • How is this different than sending in a weak team vs a previous meta to make them burn cooldowns and then sending in a counter to clean up?
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