Good fllets being the disadvantage in GAC

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Salv
15 posts Member
I know, how matchmaking in GAC works and I'm quite ok with that. Unfortunately placing fleets always in back row makes owning 2 good fleets a big disadvantage (i refer to lower leagues, most likely doesn't matter in higher, because everyone has nego and malevolence maxed there). We can't we have it in front row at least in every second GAC season? It also seems quite thematic - first get rid of planet defence in space then land with your squads.

Replies

  • slrsd3i55pdf.jpg
    Nah mate what are you talking about, at lower division fleet has won me most of my battles, having 2 extremely strong fleet is the difference of winning and losing.
    However if you are not able to clear the opponent that you are facing, than it means you are putting too many good teams on defense.gwa21hrlxp0x.jpg
    Like this dude lost the GAC because his fleet (even tho he had negotiator) wasnt strong enough to take out my fleet because he hadn't properly invested in its crew
  • Rath_Tarr
    3472 posts Member
    3.2m GP is division 3 out of 11. Technically lower than division 1 but not exactly low. It's also plenty of GP to support 2 arena grade fleets, even if many players don't seem to care enough to do so.

    At around half that GP and lower, things get rather more difficult if you are invested in fleets.
  • Salv
    15 posts Member
    If my oponent have trash fleet, which lets him only get points for setting fleet defence it means he has big GP advantage in squads (according to match making rules). This way he's potentially able to set defence which blocks access to fleet node and I'm not even able to utilize my fleet big advantage. I can't block anything with fleet because it's in back row.
  • Salv
    15 posts Member
    @Its_not_a_moon I see you're def fleet is worth 400k, most likely similar for off fleet. So 800k in total, so let's assume your oponent fleet is worth 200k only (i know, super extreme and rather not possible) - this means he has 600k GP more in squads than you. Enough to block the fleet node and nullify your fleet advantage completely and still having big advantage in squad only column.
  • Waqui
    7620 posts Member
    If you believe your fleet can hold on defense and you can still clear your opponent's fleet on offense use that to your advantage. Set a weak squad defense. Save each and every squad you need to get through your opponent's defense for offense. If you still can't get through your opponent's defense they deserve the win.
  • As long as you can effectively full clear it doesn’t really matter where your strong fleet goes. If you full clear and they can’t beat your ships regardless where they are you’ll still win.
  • Salv
    15 posts Member
    You can't full clear someone with such big GP advantage in squads. Fleet GP are worth same in match making however they it's worth much less because fleet is always in back row.

    Will you be able to full clear someone with 600k advantage in top squads? If it's lets say 1,6M vs 1M? I don't think so. Changing fleet placement to front row would balance that.
  • Waqui
    7620 posts Member
    Salv wrote: »
    You can't full clear someone with such big GP advantage in squads. Fleet GP are worth same in match making however they it's worth much less because fleet is always in back row.

    Will you be able to full clear someone with 600k advantage in top squads? If it's lets say 1,6M vs 1M? I don't think so. Changing fleet placement to front row would balance that.

    Again:
    Waqui wrote: »
    If you still can't get through your opponent's defense they deserve the win.

    Also:
    I'm not so sure matchmaking works the way you think it works.

  • Salv
    15 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »

    Also:
    I'm not so sure matchmaking works the way you think it works.

    So my understanding is as follows - let's say you set 5 squads + fleet. So it takes GP for your top 30 (in 3v3) chars (5*3*2) plus your 10-14 (depends on how many reinforcement you can set) best ships + 2 best capital ships and puts you in same bracket with oponents with similar GP counted this way.

    This means the every GP you have more than oponent in fleets, you have less in squads. Usually difference is not very significant and doesn't matter, but if you (while having 2 good fleets) encounter someone with complete trash, it matters. In theory fine, but considering fleet is back row only, players with better squads will have big advantage.

  • I don’t think there’s any evidence that fleet is considered when GAC matchmaking is done.
  • Salv
    15 posts Member
    I don’t think there’s any evidence that fleet is considered when GAC matchmaking is done.

    Are you sure about that? Anyone else can confirm? I own nice fleets (for my level), usually much better than my GAC oponents and I always had an impression (is there a way to compare gac gp in automatic way, when your opponent doesn't have swgoh.gg account? Too lazy to count it manually...) they have advantage in squads GP due to my big fleet advantage. Of course if what you say is true GAC favors fleet owners and I should not trust my impressions.
  • Are you on Discord? Most of the comparison bots don’t need the other player to have a .gg profile.
  • Salv
    15 posts Member
    Not yet:). But will be. Can you recommend any GAC comparison bot on discord?
  • DSR bot or Hotbot
  • Salv
    15 posts Member
    Great tools. Thanks.
  • I'm confused. What's the difference if it's in the back or front? Doesn't change anything really expcept possibly getting stuck behind their front wall and not being able to use your ships.
  • Salv
    15 posts Member
    Joebo720 wrote: »
    I'm confused. What's the difference if it's in the back or front? Doesn't change anything really expcept possibly getting stuck behind their front wall and not being able to use your ships.

    You have answered yourself already. You can block ship node access with squad defence, you can't block anything (except fleet node itself) with ships. This would put (if ship GPs are the part of matchmaking system) fleet heavy rosters in disadvantage in GAC.
  • I guess. Think most will put their heavy D on the south wall as it is worth more points and that's where you really want to get the stop.
  • Salv
    15 posts Member
    Of course. But advantage in squads gives you possibility to block something (no matter if it's south or north), advantage in ships doesn't.

    Case scenario (again assuming that ship GP matters in matchmaking) - you have advantage 150k GP in ships, your opponent 150k in squads. Let's assume 150k means one unbeatable team (so your unbeatable fleet and opponent's unbeatable squad) and other battles give similar banners. Who will win?
  • NicWester
    7424 posts Member
    Joebo720 wrote: »
    I guess. Think most will put their heavy D on the south wall as it is worth more points and that's where you really want to get the stop.

    I put my strongest stuff on the front bottom. You know top back is going to be a fleet, and you can see front top. The only area that is a mystery is back bottom. If you go front top first to get to their fleet, you risk using up teams that should be used in the back bottom.

    Clear front bottom, see what they're hiding in the rear, then go for the rest.

    I don't have an opinion on whether fleets should be front or back. Front would be interesting to see, but we're four rounds into this GAC and no opponent has even attacked me yet, (not because I'm scary, just because they don't care--I'm emminently beatable) and I feel like if fleets were up front even fewer people would care. But I see why they should be up front, plus I like fleets and have several good ones so it'd be nice to use them.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Salv wrote: »
    Who will win?

    Guess it could be interesting. Though i can't say i ever remember a fleet pivoting a match. Granted mine is decent in my bracket but i guess if someone ignored fleet it could help. Small sample size of just me.

  • GJO
    124 posts Member
    Solution, stop investing on fleet. fleet is boring, anyway
  • As someone who didnt ignore fleets, I 1000% disagree, want fleet to be fun? Max out hyena bomber and vulture droid and watch 7* negotiators get slaughtered by a 5* malevolence, pretty satisfying as a ds fan, it's even more fun with a 7* malevolence.
  • Yeah, by-in-large I always looked at fleets as something CG needed me to work on to help fleet playing suck less. I didn't expect the extra 100,000-200,000 fleet GP I have to be something that just unnecessarily pushes me to a higher GAC division with little benefit. It would be nice if somehow I could bring more of my fleet into the 2 GAC fleet battles in Division 3, which I am only 20,000 GP away from leaving. I can see why fleets are the unwanted red-headed stepchild for many players, with apologies to all red-headed stepchildren out there
  • TVF
    24939 posts Member
    GJO wrote: »
    Solution, stop investing on fleet. fleet is boring, anyway

    That's a bold strategy Cotton.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • OP's concern is valid. I have benefited from this recently. GAC opponent had much better fleets but much worse toons. Even though it took 3 attempts to defeat his fleet I still won by 900 points because he barely touched my squads. I actually feel sorry that the MM worked against him so much.
  • RenHendar wrote: »
    OP's concern is valid. I have benefited from this recently. GAC opponent had much better fleets but much worse toons. Even though it took 3 attempts to defeat his fleet I still won by 900 points because he barely touched my squads. I actually feel sorry that the MM worked against him so much.

    That's not MM's fault, that's the players fault. If he didn't invest in the proper toons and geared up characters randomly, than he can't blame mm since he is at fault.
  • Waqui
    7620 posts Member
    RenHendar wrote: »
    OP's concern is valid. I have benefited from this recently. GAC opponent had much better fleets but much worse toons. Even though it took 3 attempts to defeat his fleet I still won by 900 points because he barely touched my squads. I actually feel sorry that the MM worked against him so much.

    You would have won still even if the fleet territory had been in the front. Your opponent didn't lose because of the location of the fleet zone. Your example has nothing to do with OP's concern.
  • Salv
    15 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    You would have won still even if the fleet territory had been in the front. Your opponent didn't lose because of the location of the fleet zone. Your example has nothing to do with OP's concern.

    In this case - yes, he finally won, so he was not blocked and it didn't matter. In case he's not able to beat fleet (most likely it was close to such situation here), it matters.

    I seems more fair to move fleet node to front row in case of fleet GP being the part of matchmaking system.
  • Snowbird13
    223 posts Member
    edited July 31
    I'm in div 8. I have put more into my fleets than my squads(1.5m gp and over half is ships). I have 1 good squad and a couple ok ones. I put my HT and chimera(and some others) on defense. Then garbage squads. Then go for a full clear and hope they can't clear my ships. I have about a 75% win rate. Not many people in lower divisions can beat a 7* g12 bossk HT.

    I'm 4-0 so far. My oppenents might not get a win, but they get lots of banners.

    Basically, my fleets carry me.
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