So what exactly is the problem with Rose ... ?

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  • LordDirt
    1549 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    BTW, the trilogy was supposed to show Kylo Ren’s growth not Rey’s but we are always expecting the heroes journey with our entertainment and not the villian’s.

    7 - Kylo Ren doesnt want to kill Rey. He is wounded and wants to convert her. She calls upon the Force and beats him and flees

    8 - Kylo Ren still trys to convert her, she refuses and they fight over the lightsaber and it is a draw.

    9 - Kylo Ren is at his ultimate power and finally realizes she will not join him and he beats her in a duel

    He gets stabbed with a lightsaber. How's that him beating her?

    Did you even watch the same movie? He beat Rey down and was about to kill her and then Leia sacrificed herself to pull Kylo Ren back to the light side so he didn't kill Rey.
  • Stenun wrote: »
    Luke's backstory has him being a skilled pilot.

    It is not Luke's skill as a pilot that is the reason that Vader has a hard time targeting him,
    Vader has a famous line at this point and it is NOT "the years of practice are paying off for this one". It is "The Force is strong with this one". It is Luke's strength with the Force that gives Vader a hard time.
    And everyone's fine with that, because it's Luke.
    But lots of people can't accept that the Force is strong with Rey, because it's Rey.

    Also, Vader has just killed Red Leader. I think we can assume that Red Leader is not a newbie to flying and is probably quite skilled, too. But Vader had no problem taking him down.
    It is Luke's Force strength that causes problems for Vader. Not his history piloting his T-16.

    Not much of a hero's journey if you start out good at everything.

    This is another point that I see a lot and it is a "point" that completely ignored Rey's mistakes.
    And when I've tried pointing out Rey's mistakes, people say they're irrelevant or try to re-frame them to be good things. Because if they accepted that Rey makes mistakes, their entire argument falls apart. And it seems to be more important to attack Rey.
    Here, I'll prove it. Let's just go with something trivial.
    Rey isn't good at everything in TFA, Kylo Ren captures her.
    What's your counterpoint to that going to be?

    Up until TFA, lightsaber combat was something that required training. So to have someone who had never heard of the force the day before suddenly beat a sith apprentice is lore breaking.

    So? New information is not a contradiction and it certainly isn't "lore breaking".
    We know Luke can fly a ship and then add the Force on top of that and all is well.
    We know Rey can fight (witness the scene where some thugs try to steal BB-9 from her) and then add the Force on top of that and people say it's "lore breaking".

    Maul was a skilled apprentice but not at the level of a Sith Lord. It also didn't remove the stakes since palps was still lurking in the shadows and was enough of a villain to keep the stakes for the movie. In fact in Legends, maul wasn't even a true sith apprentice just a trained assassin. Also Obiwan had trained for years in lightsaber combat and was at the level of a jedi knight by that time.

    So a trained jedi beating a trained sith doesn't break the lore.

    Even if Maul is "not at the level of a Sith Lord", he IS at the level where he can beat a Jedi Master as he has literally just done so. Obi-Wan is still a padawan.
    At this point, you are turning to information presented outside the film to justify something that happens in the film rather than accept that you are treating Rey differently from Obi-Wan.

    And at least for me Rey's "subsequent growth" in TLJ is **** too. The movie picks up immediately after TFA and only takes place over 16 hours. So Rey again barely trains yet then lifts like a hundred huge rocks at the end.

    Size matters not.

    There was an appropriate 3 yr time skip from ANH to ESB and there was still several scenes of Luke training to use the force before he even did any lightsaber combat or major force powers. That established that using the force and lightsaber combat was a skill that needed to be learned.

    No, it doesn't.
    Luke never needed training to tap into his raw potential with the Force. Witness him destroying the Death Star without a targeting computer or using telekinesis on the lightsaber in the Wampa cave.
    Take Luke's piloting skills and add the Force on top and he's a formidable pilot and all is grand. Take Rey's fighting skills and add the Force on top and she's a formidable warrior and everyone complains.

    It is pretty clear that obiwan was trained from a small child so of course he could fight with a lightsaber.

    Going purely on the information presented in TPM, why can Obi-Wan beat Maul but Qui-Gon can't?
    Why is it OK for a padawan to do something his Master can't other than that padawan is naturally strong?

    And throughout your reply, you completely ignored the factor of Kylo Ren's really nasty wound. They keep drawing attention to it in the film; it is an important factor in Rey's win.


    I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude or argumentative but most of your reply really does read like you're clutching at straws.
    At one point you even resort to information from outside the films to try to justify what happens in the films. You turn to information found elsewhere to weaken Maul ("oh he's not really a Sith") but you ignore the points that Kylo is both badly wounded and an apprentice which are both pieces of information presented on screen in the movie
    So what the looks like to me is that you are prepared to weaken Maul using a secondary source to justify Obi-Wan's victory but you are not prepared to use the film itself to justify Rey's.

    It reads to me very much like you hate Rey for some other reasons and are now trying to find some "justifications" for it.
    And if you hate Rey (and indeed Rose too, who this thread was originally about); fine. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. But none of the reasons presented in this thread for either the Rose hate or the Rey hate stand up to any scrutiny.

    You are free to disagree but I just put forth the case as I see it. To me lightsaber combat is a skill that needs to be learned.

    But agree to disagree.

    But for some of your points. Luke did practice hitting 2 meter targets regularly in a t16. Straight from the movie. So he probably tapped into the force when hitting womp rats. So not as big of a stretch.

    I don't really attribute vader not killing Luke to Luke's skill. It shows the xwing thinking but that's mostly dramatic effect. Vader had Luke in his sights and would have killed him had han not arrived timely. Yes convenient but not due to Luke having skills he shouldn't.

    Yes, Rey gets captured but she also uses a power that previously was difficult to learn without any training to free herself. Being captured was needed for the plot. But amazingly enough, freeing herself wasn't. The plot would have been fine if finn. Han, and chewie freed her. The sad thing is many of the issues with Rey being op in TFA aren't even necessary. It's just irritating.

    And I'll give you that kylo was wounded. But it still diminishes him as a villain that he was beaten so badly already. It works if there is some other villain in the next movie (like dooku in AOTC) but if he's the villain for the whole trilogy.

    As far as maul and obiwan. As I said before the sith apprentice vs the jedi apprentice, it could go either way. I get your point about maul beating the master and then losing. But I just assume that every master isn't equally skilled in combat. And that is showcased best in ROTS when 4 council masters die in 3 seconds to palpatine.

    And quigon dying is crucial to the plot of the trilogy and was meticulously planned out as was obiwan surviving.

    The real difference, is the sequels don't appear to have any coherent plan and don't care about the lore. It's more like "It'd be cool if Rey could mind trick people." They don't bother to take the time to even look at the lore and think whether it makes sense in the greater star wars universe. They just do it for the "cool scene" and move on. Add up several of those and you get a movie that breaks the lore.

    That's not even mentioning the wildly different directions the movies try to go in.

    So getting back to the point of the thread, I don't actually hate rose tico or Rey for that matter. I just have issues with the writing. Rey is the main character so many writing issues involve her. Kinda a side effect of being the main character. I don't have as many writing issues with the ot or prequels.

    Don't get me wrong, the prequels have some issues, but the story coherence is actually one of their strong points. Weaker points are the dialogue and some of the execution.

    The sequels are weak in the story coherence front. And in the choreography of the fight scenes. But that's another issue. The story being incoherent is a big problem and why I don't like the sequels.

    I think much of the "hate" for characters is just people pointing out bad writing and then it being taken for hate of a character. As I said, I don't hate Rey. I think many aspects of her character are poorly written especially in TFA and TLJ. That isn't the same as hate.
  • LordDirt wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    BTW, the trilogy was supposed to show Kylo Ren’s growth not Rey’s but we are always expecting the heroes journey with our entertainment and not the villian’s.

    7 - Kylo Ren doesnt want to kill Rey. He is wounded and wants to convert her. She calls upon the Force and beats him and flees

    8 - Kylo Ren still trys to convert her, she refuses and they fight over the lightsaber and it is a draw.

    9 - Kylo Ren is at his ultimate power and finally realizes she will not join him and he beats her in a duel

    He gets stabbed with a lightsaber. How's that him beating her?

    Did you even watch the same movie? He beat Rey down and was about to kill her and then Leia sacrificed herself to pull Kylo Ren back to the light side so he didn't kill Rey.

    I'll admit I only watched it once in the theater so I'll give you that it probably looked like he was winning at one point. But he still got stabbed and she didn't. So it's hard to say the one that got stabbed won the fight.

    And the fact that I have only watched ep 9 once when it's on Disney plus for free days a lot about how bad the sequels are to me.

    It took awhile for it to sink in. I saw TFA 3 or 4 times and was actually excited for TLJ. I even saw TLJ 2 or 3 times in the theater trying to understand what they were trying to do. But it just gets worse with repeat viewings.

    So TROS I just don't care at this point. It's a meh movie. I didn't particularly hate it though but that may be because I've only seen it once. Plot holes get worse with repeat viewings. They don't get better.

    Compare that to the prequels. I saw both AOTC and ROTS several times in theaters and countless times since and still like the story.
  • LordDirt
    1549 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    BTW, the trilogy was supposed to show Kylo Ren’s growth not Rey’s but we are always expecting the heroes journey with our entertainment and not the villian’s.

    7 - Kylo Ren doesnt want to kill Rey. He is wounded and wants to convert her. She calls upon the Force and beats him and flees

    8 - Kylo Ren still trys to convert her, she refuses and they fight over the lightsaber and it is a draw.

    9 - Kylo Ren is at his ultimate power and finally realizes she will not join him and he beats her in a duel

    He gets stabbed with a lightsaber. How's that him beating her?

    Did you even watch the same movie? He beat Rey down and was about to kill her and then Leia sacrificed herself to pull Kylo Ren back to the light side so he didn't kill Rey.

    I'll admit I only watched it once in the theater so I'll give you that it probably looked like he was winning at one point. But he still got stabbed and she didn't. So it's hard to say the one that got stabbed won the fight.

    And the fact that I have only watched ep 9 once when it's on Disney plus for free days a lot about how bad the sequels are to me.

    It took awhile for it to sink in. I saw TFA 3 or 4 times and was actually excited for TLJ. I even saw TLJ 2 or 3 times in the theater trying to understand what they were trying to do. But it just gets worse with repeat viewings.

    So TROS I just don't care at this point. It's a meh movie. I didn't particularly hate it though but that may be because I've only seen it once. Plot holes get worse with repeat viewings. They don't get better.

    Compare that to the prequels. I saw both AOTC and ROTS several times in theaters and countless times since and still like the story.

    He was literally about to kill her and Leia sacrifices herself to reach out to him and bring him back to the light side. He turns away from Rey and drops his lightsaber as he is feeling his mom die. Rey grabs the lightsaber as it is falling and cheap shots "Kylo Ren" as he is distracted.

    Yes, TROS sucks.
  • Stenun
    653 posts Member
    I think much of the "hate" for characters is just people pointing out bad writing and then it being taken for hate of a character.

    I disagree.
    If it was just bad writing, people wouldn't hate certain characters and not others. The bad writing is universal so why is it only two particular new major characters who get the hate?
    It's Rose and Rey who are hated; it's not Kylo or Poe.
    Nobody ever attacks the new trilogy because they hate Finn or because they can't stand Hux.
    It's Rose and Rey. Every time.
    They are definitely HATED. And while there might be reasons to not think strongly in their favour, the hatred is on a different level.

    And as you don't hate them; great, no worries. :)
    As you say, we can agree to disagree.

    It's not the "Don't Like" that I am having trouble with. It's the hate.

  • Stenun wrote: »
    I think much of the "hate" for characters is just people pointing out bad writing and then it being taken for hate of a character.

    I disagree.
    If it was just bad writing, people wouldn't hate certain characters and not others. The bad writing is universal so why is it only two particular new major characters who get the hate?
    It's Rose and Rey who are hated; it's not Kylo or Poe.
    Nobody ever attacks the new trilogy because they hate Finn or because they can't stand Hux.
    It's Rose and Rey. Every time.
    They are definitely HATED. And while there might be reasons to not think strongly in their favour, the hatred is on a different level.

    And as you don't hate them; great, no worries. :)
    As you say, we can agree to disagree.

    It's not the "Don't Like" that I am having trouble with. It's the hate.

    I can't speak for anyone else but me, but I will say I did like Rey. Didn't like Finn. Poe wasn't a big enough character in the beginning, but he did come around. As for Rose, I don't hate her, just didn't like her much. My favorite part was when she shocked Finn. The trilogy would've been helped if the directors didn't seem to fight each other over the plot.
  • Stenun wrote: »
    I think much of the "hate" for characters is just people pointing out bad writing and then it being taken for hate of a character.

    I disagree.
    If it was just bad writing, people wouldn't hate certain characters and not others. The bad writing is universal so why is it only two particular new major characters who get the hate?
    It's Rose and Rey who are hated; it's not Kylo or Poe.
    Nobody ever attacks the new trilogy because they hate Finn or because they can't stand Hux.
    It's Rose and Rey. Every time.
    They are definitely HATED. And while there might be reasons to not think strongly in their favour, the hatred is on a different level.

    And as you don't hate them; great, no worries. :)
    As you say, we can agree to disagree.

    It's not the "Don't Like" that I am having trouble with. It's the hate.

    Like I said my problem is more with story so I can't say for sure.

    But with Rey, many of the story issues I have in the Force Awakens at least involve her character and how it was written. I'm guessing that plays a role in why they don't like her. Or at least find her character boring.

    Rose is mostly in the Canto Bight scene or was placed in the movie particularly for that sub plot. That whole sequence is really pointless and is only in there to put a political message about capitalism being evil. As Rose is the deliverer of the not at all subtle politics (our world's not sw politics) being brought into the movie, it is natural to associate her with that message.

    Just as they tried to hard to make Rey a "strong female character" and sacrificed story to do so. For example, it would make more sense story wise for Rey to be rescued by Han and Chewie rather than using a mind trick that she really shouldn't be able to be used. She can still be a strong character and need help. Luke gets saved several times in the OT and anakin does in the prequels. But the impression I got was that they wanted Rey to never have to be saved because in their mind, it would make her weak. And they broke the lore to avoid making her weak.

    And I don't think it's sexism either. Many people including myself don't like Rey as a character or think Rose really serves no purpose. But there are plenty of better written female characters in Legends that we like.

    Mara
    Jaina
    Tahiri
    Vestara
    Ahsoka
    Ventress


    If it were sexism, we would hate those characters too. But we don't. Why? They are better written. They are allowed to fail. They all had to train to be good with a lightsaber.
  • TVF
    24939 posts Member
    Most of the hate here usually is tied to the toon, but often it's something like "I hated Rose in the movies and now I hate her in the game too."
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  • TVF
    24939 posts Member
    What comparison?

    I've seen a bunch of posts in the past that could be summarized exactly as I stated it.
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  • LordDirt
    1549 posts Member
    Once again the vocal minority makes people think everyone hates something.
  • TVF
    24939 posts Member
    ZAP wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    What comparison?

    I've seen a bunch of posts in the past that could be summarized exactly as I stated it.

    Your comparison of “I hated “x” in the movies, so I hate them in game. Rey goes against that theory, as she’s been a good in game character. Maybe it works with Rose as she hasn’t been that great in game and the only reason people may see her as a better in game char is because of having to relic her for GL Rey.

    If Rose were as useful as the various Reys in game, we’d see a lot less of the “I hate her in game cause I hate her in the movies”.

    I give up. I made no comparison, I stated what I saw other people say in the past.
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  • Stenun
    653 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Once again the vocal minority makes people think everyone hates something.

    No, I don't think everyone hates her.
    But I think a lot of people do.
    Like TVF, I have also seen people on these forums objecting to having to farm Rose because of how much they hate her. In fact, it was one such post that was the catalyst for this thread. I completely failed to understand that view point and, assuming there must be more to it than just sexism or racism, I tried to find out what.

    There has been a lot of conversation about why people don't like her - nearly all of which I disagree with but that's OK because people are allowed to like different things.
    But nobody has yet explained the hate.
    If you want me to believe there is more to the hate than sexism or racism, please explain it. I am genuinely open to hearing what people have to say about their hate for her.
  • LordDirt
    1549 posts Member
    You just have to realize that people are quick to hate these days and just go with that.
  • Nikoms565
    12661 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    You just have to realize that people are quick to hate these days and just go with that.

    I think people have always been quick to hate. These days though, people feel entitled to say it out loud - or type it semi-anonymously on a message board. Odd, considering the large number of people that give lip service to tolerance and acceptance. Integrity matters - but not to as many people as we would hope.

    *steps off soap box*
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  • Stenun wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Once again the vocal minority makes people think everyone hates something.

    No, I don't think everyone hates her.
    But I think a lot of people do.
    Like TVF, I have also seen people on these forums objecting to having to farm Rose because of how much they hate her. In fact, it was one such post that was the catalyst for this thread. I completely failed to understand that view point and, assuming there must be more to it than just sexism or racism, I tried to find out what.

    There has been a lot of conversation about why people don't like her - nearly all of which I disagree with but that's OK because people are allowed to like different things.
    But nobody has yet explained the hate.
    If you want me to believe there is more to the hate than sexism or racism, please explain it. I am genuinely open to hearing what people have to say about their hate for her.

    As far as not wanting to farm her or use her in the game, her kit is only ok. So that's part of it. Farming characters that are only ok is annoying in itself.

    Also as stated above, many feel her character in the movie is pretty pointless so farming a character that you don't particularly like and only has a so so kit usually doesn't go over to well.

    But for me at least, it isn't limited to just Rose, if they made us use several of the jedi council members (like kit fisto, who basically only had a scene where he died in two seconds to ep and did little else) that have bad kits to r3 for an event.

    I prefer to use the cool characters and Rose just isn't cool. Not like Darth Revan cool.
  • Deathbringer59
    199 posts Member
    edited August 1
    Ok ill try to explain the hate. Why people hate her is because they do and im talking about people who truely feel hatered towards a fictional character for for no acting reason.. Theyre either sexist towards women leads, racist towards Asian, maybe the name rose just uirks someone. You're asking a psychology question that know one here can answer and more then likely one of those who truly do hate her will not post anything

    Edit: alot of people dislike the scenes she did and the script she had even though I wouldn't say those are her fault. Such as the end of TLJ, the creators of the movie wanted that scene where she crashes into Finn so she had to do it.

    I would've love to see Rose become jedi/force user in the TROS. Have her, Rey and Finn all become jedi and cause so much controversy. Sounds like fun
  • Ok ill try to explain the hate. Why people hate her is because they do and im talking about people who truely feel hatered towards a fictional character for for no acting reason.. Theyre either sexist towards women leads, racist towards Asian, maybe the name rose just uirks someone. You're asking a psychology question that know one here can answer and more then likely one of those who truly do hate her will not post anything

    Edit: alot of people dislike the scenes she did and the script she had even though I wouldn't say those are her fault. Such as the end of TLJ, the creators of the movie wanted that scene where she crashes into Finn so she had to do it.

    I doubt all that many people actually feel hate towards a fictional character. Most likely the "hate" is hyperbole that people that don't like her character use.

    Kinda like saying you hate broccoli when you really just don't like it all that much.
  • Deathbringer59
    199 posts Member
    edited August 1
    @DarkHelmet1138 Ya the people who frully hate her are probally so far little it won't matter much but other people over exaggerated there dislike for her.
  • DarkLord12345
    10 posts Member
    edited August 1
    Stenun wrote: »
    Luke's backstory has him being a skilled pilot.

    It is not Luke's skill as a pilot that is the reason that Vader has a hard time targeting him,
    Vader has a famous line at this point and it is NOT "the years of practice are paying off for this one". It is "The Force is strong with this one". It is Luke's strength with the Force that gives Vader a hard time.
    And everyone's fine with that, because it's Luke.
    But lots of people can't accept that the Force is strong with Rey, because it's Rey.

    Also, Vader has just killed Red Leader. I think we can assume that Red Leader is not a newbie to flying and is probably quite skilled, too. But Vader had no problem taking him down.
    It is Luke's Force strength that causes problems for Vader. Not his history piloting his T-16.

    Not much of a hero's journey if you start out good at everything.

    This is another point that I see a lot and it is a "point" that completely ignored Rey's mistakes.
    And when I've tried pointing out Rey's mistakes, people say they're irrelevant or try to re-frame them to be good things. Because if they accepted that Rey makes mistakes, their entire argument falls apart. And it seems to be more important to attack Rey.
    Here, I'll prove it. Let's just go with something trivial.
    Rey isn't good at everything in TFA, Kylo Ren captures her.
    What's your counterpoint to that going to be?

    Up until TFA, lightsaber combat was something that required training. So to have someone who had never heard of the force the day before suddenly beat a sith apprentice is lore breaking.

    So? New information is not a contradiction and it certainly isn't "lore breaking".
    We know Luke can fly a ship and then add the Force on top of that and all is well.
    We know Rey can fight (witness the scene where some thugs try to steal BB-9 from her) and then add the Force on top of that and people say it's "lore breaking".

    Maul was a skilled apprentice but not at the level of a Sith Lord. It also didn't remove the stakes since palps was still lurking in the shadows and was enough of a villain to keep the stakes for the movie. In fact in Legends, maul wasn't even a true sith apprentice just a trained assassin. Also Obiwan had trained for years in lightsaber combat and was at the level of a jedi knight by that time.

    So a trained jedi beating a trained sith doesn't break the lore.

    Even if Maul is "not at the level of a Sith Lord", he IS at the level where he can beat a Jedi Master as he has literally just done so. Obi-Wan is still a padawan.
    At this point, you are turning to information presented outside the film to justify something that happens in the film rather than accept that you are treating Rey differently from Obi-Wan.

    And at least for me Rey's "subsequent growth" in TLJ is **** too. The movie picks up immediately after TFA and only takes place over 16 hours. So Rey again barely trains yet then lifts like a hundred huge rocks at the end.

    Size matters not.

    There was an appropriate 3 yr time skip from ANH to ESB and there was still several scenes of Luke training to use the force before he even did any lightsaber combat or major force powers. That established that using the force and lightsaber combat was a skill that needed to be learned.

    No, it doesn't.
    Luke never needed training to tap into his raw potential with the Force. Witness him destroying the Death Star without a targeting computer or using telekinesis on the lightsaber in the Wampa cave.
    Take Luke's piloting skills and add the Force on top and he's a formidable pilot and all is grand. Take Rey's fighting skills and add the Force on top and she's a formidable warrior and everyone complains.

    It is pretty clear that obiwan was trained from a small child so of course he could fight with a lightsaber.

    Going purely on the information presented in TPM, why can Obi-Wan beat Maul but Qui-Gon can't?
    Why is it OK for a padawan to do something his Master can't other than that padawan is naturally strong?

    And throughout your reply, you completely ignored the factor of Kylo Ren's really nasty wound. They keep drawing attention to it in the film; it is an important factor in Rey's win.


    I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude or argumentative but most of your reply really does read like you're clutching at straws.
    At one point you even resort to information from outside the films to try to justify what happens in the films. You turn to information found elsewhere to weaken Maul ("oh he's not really a Sith") but you ignore the points that Kylo is both badly wounded and an apprentice which are both pieces of information presented on screen in the movie
    So what the looks like to me is that you are prepared to weaken Maul using a secondary source to justify Obi-Wan's victory but you are not prepared to use the film itself to justify Rey's.

    It reads to me very much like you hate Rey for some other reasons and are now trying to find some "justifications" for it.
    And if you hate Rey (and indeed Rose too, who this thread was originally about); fine. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. But none of the reasons presented in this thread for either the Rose hate or the Rey hate stand up to any scrutiny.
    I think this is something people need to think about: If there was no ledge thing for obi wan to hang on to, he would be dead. Maul beat obi-wan, but obi-wan caught him by surprise and then defeated him. Also, for Rose, she just ended up seeming like a character who didn't really fit in and then was cast aside. Luke is the son of The Chosen One, so obviously he was a prodigy. Then, he did get training. Yes, palpatine is rey's grandfather, but still. Hard work beats talent when talent refuses to work hard, and Rey just seemed to be the best by just being talented but not being fully trained.

  • Just to clarify, I don't hate Rose
  • TVF
    24939 posts Member
    She deserves to be as useful in the game as her part of the plot of the sequel trilogy. Which is to say not useful at all.

    Relevant to this thread.
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  • i think the people just hate rose because she has some "pointless"(in some ways) dialogue so people are picking on her just like they did to jar jar and 3po.
    no longer a f2p since i bought the hyperdrive bundle
  • i think the people just hate rose because she has some "pointless"(in some ways) dialogue so people are picking on her just like they did to jar jar and 3po.

    Yeah and it's not unprecedented either. There were a lot of people wanting jar jar killed off in gruesome ways when the prequels were new. Mostly because he was an annoying pointless character that took you out of the movie by being "too lucky".

    Rose is an annoying pointless character too but I actually think the hate for jar jar was worse. I haven't seen people demanding they kill off Rose like they did jar jar.

    I think Lucas eventually had a plan for jar jar that would have made him less pointless. If that were the case, then in hindsight jar jar would have been viewed in another light. I still like to think of Darth jar jar when I watch tpm. It makes the movie better.

    Sadly, I don't think there was ever such a brilliant plan with Rose's character. I believe she was put in there simply to put forward an agenda and really serves no other purpose. A scene or two for their agenda would have been cringy but not as bad as about a third of the movie and a whole character added for no other apparent reason but to put forward their agenda. The other character involved (Finn) was already in another movie and had a bit of an arc with phasma, but rose really had no other purpose but to be there to lecture finn (and the audience) about rich people being evil.

    So in a way she became the face of that message. And so those that see through the message and how completely detached from the rest of the movie it is, associate that message with the character put in the movie for no other apparent reason but to lecture us on the evils of capitalism.

    And subconsciously people that do not like the blatant political messaging in their entertainment (that includes me), dislike the character that was put into the movie for no other reason.

    Unfortunately some people have a hard time separating the dislike of how a character is written from an actress that was probably just excited to be in a star wars movie. It was not Kelly Marie Trans fault how the character was written. No more than it was Amend Bests fault on how Jar Jar was written.

    That blame falls solely on the writer and director. Rian Johnson or whomever actually approved that disaster of a movie is at fault for TLJ. And George Lucas is at fault for Jar Jar being too lucky. Though I give Lucas the benefit of the doubt that it was actually part of a plan that later was changed. The darth jar jar theory just makes too much sense and would be something that lucas would do.

    Sadly there is no such brilliance for the sequels. Just a complete lack of planning. It is sad how far starwars has fallen with that dumpster fire of a trilogy.

  • I'd argue Jar Jar was probably more maligned in the extreme but also more liked overall compared to Rose. Lucas and Ahmed Best made it clear that Jar Jar was 100% to entertain the kid viewers. Ahmed himself came up with the voice as it's the voice he used when reading books to his kids. His kids thought it was funny so he felt it made Jar Jar likeable to younger audiences. And as a kid myself when it came out, I loved Jar Jar. He served his exact purpose.

    Now I find him annoying but I love that just as much because both Obi Wan and Qui Gon clearly loathe him and jab at him the whole movie.

    "The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."

    "Why have I sensed that we are picking up ANOTHER pathetic lifeform?"

    Jar Jar was also written to be the butt of jokes in the movie.

    Rose on the other hand was not. Her story makes sense but her actions do not. Her character was annoying because she made stupid decisions like ramming Finn, and even kissing Finn while literally in the crossfire of the First Order. It was so cringey. Without any redeeming quality or moments, she's then not well liked because she's then completely useless.

    Jar Jar at least made kids laughed and adults laugh when the main characters poke fun at him. And without Jar Jar the whole ending never would've happened. He's key the actual plot. Rose was not. She's just poorly written.
  • @Stenun
    I made a looong post that was eaten by editing. Here is a TL;DR (sort of)
    The first 6 Star Wars are about Jedis and Rebels. Rey is the anti-jedi: a big ball of incredible raw power who uses strong emotions to become a sef-taught force user. She walks on the darkside's path at the very beginning of her story, through fear and anger up to rage, until she met a grumpy old dude who already failed at channeling the inner rage of his last pupil. She's the opposite of what a jedi should be like.
    Rose is the anti-Rebel. Rebels are Freedom Fighters who are ready to send a suicide mission sacrificing lots of brave pilots to destroy the Death Star. When Ackbar saw it was a trap, he still wanted to kill people and destroy stuff. Rose was so shocked by the loss of her sister that she doesn't agree with this kind of behaviour anymore. She wants to protect, not kill, even if it would mean defeat. What the point of winning if all your loves ones died to ensure the victory kinda deal. Cassian Andor would hate her so much.
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