Good fllets being the disadvantage in GAC

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  • I've seen cases in div 7 where you end up fighting someone without any ships but has relics. Sure I win the ship zone but the other three zones are theirs (i.e. no zone cleared). Matchmaking should take into account that ships are less than 25% of the points needed (perhaps 25% of the matchmaking).
  • PrimeForce wrote: »
    I've seen cases in div 7 where you end up fighting someone without any ships but has relics. Sure I win the ship zone but the other three zones are theirs (i.e. no zone cleared). Matchmaking should take into account that ships are less than 25% of the points needed (perhaps 25% of the matchmaking).

    Except the match making is set in a way where you are faced against another opponents top 50 or x amount of characters, not ships.
    A relic 5 character can have less GP than a gear 12 with 2 zetas.
  • Waqui
    7632 posts Member
    PrimeForce wrote: »
    I've seen cases in div 7 where you end up fighting someone without any ships but has relics. Sure I win the ship zone but the other three zones are theirs (i.e. no zone cleared). Matchmaking should take into account that ships are less than 25% of the points needed (perhaps 25% of the matchmaking).

    As already pointed out previously there's no evidence that fleet GP is included in the matchmaking GP. Evidence suggests that you are matched entirely on top-X squad GP.
  • Jarvind
    3688 posts Member
    I seem to remember there being a GA layout where it's just 2 territories, a single ship territory and a squad territory with like 8 slots. So there's that.
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  • Rath_Tarr
    3491 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    PrimeForce wrote: »
    I've seen cases in div 7 where you end up fighting someone without any ships but has relics. Sure I win the ship zone but the other three zones are theirs (i.e. no zone cleared). Matchmaking should take into account that ships are less than 25% of the points needed (perhaps 25% of the matchmaking).

    As already pointed out previously there's no evidence that fleet GP is included in the matchmaking GP. Evidence suggests that you are matched entirely on top-X squad GP.
    What evidence would that be?
  • Waqui
    7632 posts Member
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    PrimeForce wrote: »
    I've seen cases in div 7 where you end up fighting someone without any ships but has relics. Sure I win the ship zone but the other three zones are theirs (i.e. no zone cleared). Matchmaking should take into account that ships are less than 25% of the points needed (perhaps 25% of the matchmaking).

    As already pointed out previously there's no evidence that fleet GP is included in the matchmaking GP. Evidence suggests that you are matched entirely on top-X squad GP.
    What evidence would that be?

    A recent forum poster analysing their own matchups. They compared (top-X character GP + top-Y ship GP) for different values of X and Y. It was still very early in their work, but so far the results suggested that ship GP was not included in matchmaking. No, they didn't include data in the post - only the conclusion so far (still early).

    No, I don't have a link, but feel free to search.
    Yes, they may come to a different conclusion as the work progresses.
  • Then, in our Quality of Life update, we shifted the focus to only the part of the collection that is eligible in that Grand Arena (i.e. characters only, or characters+ships). This did not work either. Among active participants in Grand Arena, the number of blowouts was still far higher than our targets.

    Ultimately, we think close matches with some tension are at the heart of what makes a great Grand Arena experience, therefore we are moving away from pure collection GP as the basis for matchmaking.

    So, while you may match with someone who has a much different GP than you, behind the scenes we’ve done our best to match you based on similar roster characteristics. The most obvious similarity is in the GP of your top few squads - but there is more going on behind the scenes.
    This is from @CG_SBCrumb https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/207546/grand-arena-championships-matchmaking

    As you can see they tried using character plus ship but it didn't work out and most of the matches are purely based on top characters only
  • Salv wrote: »
    It also seems quite thematic - first get rid of planet defence in space then land with your squads.

    Actually, thematic would be more like blast your way through the stormtroopers, get aboard the Millenium Falcon and rocket into space. See, squads in front.
    Officer in Ewoks Fit In Blenders. Traya, Wat & Negotiator on farm. PM to join us.
  • Waqui
    7632 posts Member
    Then, in our Quality of Life update, we shifted the focus to only the part of the collection that is eligible in that Grand Arena (i.e. characters only, or characters+ships). This did not work either. Among active participants in Grand Arena, the number of blowouts was still far higher than our targets.

    Ultimately, we think close matches with some tension are at the heart of what makes a great Grand Arena experience, therefore we are moving away from pure collection GP as the basis for matchmaking.

    So, while you may match with someone who has a much different GP than you, behind the scenes we’ve done our best to match you based on similar roster characteristics. The most obvious similarity is in the GP of your top few squads - but there is more going on behind the scenes.
    This is from @CG_SBCrumb https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/207546/grand-arena-championships-matchmaking

    As you can see they tried using character plus ship but it didn't work out and most of the matches are purely based on top characters only

    I believe the part about characters + ships or characters only refers to the MM before the introduction of matching by top-X GP.
    I believe the QOL update Crumb refers to happened back before championships were introduced.
  • NicWester
    7429 posts Member
    GJO wrote: »
    Solution, stop investing on fleet. fleet is boring, anyway

    qdeo582u5o1b.jpeg
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • NicWester
    7429 posts Member
    Jarvind wrote: »
    I seem to remember there being a GA layout where it's just 2 territories, a single ship territory and a squad territory with like 8 slots. So there's that.
    There was, but I think it was only used for the exhibition season to teach people how Grand Arena worked. I think they also said that they have four maps and will rotate between them--3v3+ships, 5v5 with no ships, 5v5+ships, and............ Uhhh............. Huh. You know? This would be a really good time for me to remember where that post of theirs was so that I could say what the fourth one was AND not sound like I'm making it all up in an, at best, Mandela Effect...
    Then, in our Quality of Life update, we shifted the focus to only the part of the collection that is eligible in that Grand Arena (i.e. characters only, or characters+ships). This did not work either. Among active participants in Grand Arena, the number of blowouts was still far higher than our targets.

    Ultimately, we think close matches with some tension are at the heart of what makes a great Grand Arena experience, therefore we are moving away from pure collection GP as the basis for matchmaking.

    So, while you may match with someone who has a much different GP than you, behind the scenes we’ve done our best to match you based on similar roster characteristics. The most obvious similarity is in the GP of your top few squads - but there is more going on behind the scenes.
    This is from https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/207546/grand-arena-championships-matchmaking

    As you can see they tried using character plus ship but it didn't work out and most of the matches are purely based on top characters only
    That isn't quite what Crumb was saying. He was saying that the first iteration only looked at the total GP of your characters (if ships weren't invokved) OR the total GP of all your characters and ships (if ships were involved). The part that was changed going forward is that matchmaking no longer counts the bottom of your roster.

    That said, I think you're right. I don't think ships are taken into account because I've seen some truly awful, piddly little fleets up against me. So I agree with your conclusion, I just wanted to point out that your premise, the linked post, isn't correct.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Waqui
    7632 posts Member
    @NicWester The map with two territories only was also used later after exhibitions. Since the introduction of championships we've only seen the current map layout with 4 territories. As far as I remember CG announced that they will stick to this layout.
  • Waqui
    7632 posts Member
    NicWester wrote: »
    Jarvind wrote: »
    I seem to remember there being a GA layout where it's just 2 territories, a single ship territory and a squad territory with like 8 slots. So there's that.
    There was, but I think it was only used for the exhibition season to teach people how Grand Arena worked. I think they also said that they have four maps and will rotate between them--3v3+ships, 5v5 with no ships, 5v5+ships, and............ Uhhh............. Huh. You know? This would be a really good time for me to remember where that post of theirs was so that I could say what the fourth one was AND not sound like I'm making it all up in an, at best, Mandela Effect...
    Then, in our Quality of Life update, we shifted the focus to only the part of the collection that is eligible in that Grand Arena (i.e. characters only, or characters+ships). This did not work either. Among active participants in Grand Arena, the number of blowouts was still far higher than our targets.

    Ultimately, we think close matches with some tension are at the heart of what makes a great Grand Arena experience, therefore we are moving away from pure collection GP as the basis for matchmaking.

    So, while you may match with someone who has a much different GP than you, behind the scenes we’ve done our best to match you based on similar roster characteristics. The most obvious similarity is in the GP of your top few squads - but there is more going on behind the scenes.
    This is from https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/207546/grand-arena-championships-matchmaking

    As you can see they tried using character plus ship but it didn't work out and most of the matches are purely based on top characters only
    That isn't quite what Crumb was saying. He was saying that the first iteration only looked at the total GP of your characters (if ships weren't invokved) OR the total GP of all your characters and ships (if ships were involved). The part that was changed going forward is that matchmaking no longer counts the bottom of your roster.

    Not entirely correct. Initially you were matched by total GP (characters and ships) disregarding whether ships were included in the GA or not (character only). The QOL update mentioned by Crumb changed the algorithm so that ship GP was only included in GAs that included ships.

    Apart from this I agree :-)
  • Winning the ship zone should be worth a much points as other zones - that's my main issue with it at the moment, that if you don't focus on the back regular zone, you will lose, because clearing the ships isn't worth as much.

    Another option I would like to see is two fleet zones - i.e both front and back top. That would definitely encourage more fleet development. Iif you are in Div 1, your should have 4 capitals and decent fleets above 300k each. Pitting them against other massive fleets would make GAC interesting.
  • No offense, but I don’t think that would be a great idea. Like you said, sometimes the character wall stops you from going to the fleet, but that would just do the opposite. It gives people with bad fleets an inability to use their character advantage. I’m in division 5 and often in my matchmaking, me winning a fleet battle is the difference between winning and losing. While I am partly saying this because of my trash 2nd fleet, I just think it would reverse the problem. Especially thinking that my opponents will get an easy win if I can’t clear that territory. I would only be able to clear one side of the table and would be unable to get to other character territory
  • Easy solution. Make a new map for the combo. One half fleets the other half toons. Make each half worth the same amount.
  • I agree that if fleet is included on the map it should be more equal to the rest of the zones. I've lost a lot of GA's where they clear my two lower zones, while I clear their two top zones and lose. If they have some Meta team that I don't have a counter for and they place it on Defense in the lower zone its over.

    All they have to do is clear my lower area and they win automatically. Its a major flaw in GA. I have better ships then a lot of my opponents because I focused them and got ships to try to be better balanced. I also saved the matz to level ships first instead of gear and characters, but those that focused characters are rewarded with GA wins over me.

    I say GA should be a top and bottom. The top should be two ship zones, one then the other in a line similar to GA now. The bottom row should be two or three tiers that you have to fight back through like now, but they should not be mixed.
  • Dramgon wrote: »
    I agree that if fleet is included on the map it should be more equal to the rest of the zones. I've lost a lot of GA's where they clear my two lower zones, while I clear their two top zones and lose. If they have some Meta team that I don't have a counter for and they place it on Defense in the lower zone its over.

    All they have to do is clear my lower area and they win automatically. Its a major flaw in GA. I have better ships then a lot of my opponents because I focused them and got ships to try to be better balanced. I also saved the matz to level ships first instead of gear and characters, but those that focused characters are rewarded with GA wins over me.

    I say GA should be a top and bottom. The top should be two ship zones, one then the other in a line similar to GA now. The bottom row should be two or three tiers that you have to fight back through like now, but they should not be mixed.

    If you cant clear more than 2 zones than you won't win even if fleet was in the front line case closed
  • Just an update. I posted earlier. I'm in div 8. My fleet accounts for over 53% of my total gp. I built up my fleet over squads, because of how easy fleet arena is to get the top spot. I'm 5/6 so far this time. I would be 6/6, but I chased a feat and lost a battle I shouldn't have. My ships carried me. I put everything on offense squad wise, but my oppents rarely clear my defensive fleet.

    So having strong ships help me win. And r7 Vader destroys people on 3v3.
  • Snowbird13 wrote: »
    Just an update. I posted earlier. I'm in div 8. My fleet accounts for over 53% of my total gp. I built up my fleet over squads, because of how easy fleet arena is to get the top spot. I'm 5/6 so far this time. I would be 6/6, but I chased a feat and lost a battle I shouldn't have. My ships carried me. I put everything on offense squad wise, but my oppents rarely clear my defensive fleet.

    So having strong ships help me win. And r7 Vader destroys people on 3v3.

    Vader destroys, period. I took this a little while ago. In a top 30 filled with nothing but 5 million and up GP accounts with Galactic Legend KR and Rey and Snazzy Dressed Luke this dude is top 10 with 2 G12s, lol j7xxdu0xtk7g.jpg
  • You just have to build fleets that are strong and use good characters. I have at least two fleets that are good. An ackbar rebel fleet and a negotiator.

    The crucial ships in those two fleets include HT, anakin, ashoka, ****, and fives. All of those ships have characters that are part of good teams. There are a few other ships needed but it's only a few more characters and you don't have to have every pilot maxed to have an arena grade fleet. Most of my Phoenix were only g11 (except ezra's at g12) and it still holds in gac div 2 just fine.

    And if having the 5 or six pilots that are part of those fleets but not a great team causes you to lose, you have bigger problems.
  • Waqui
    7632 posts Member
    Dramgon wrote: »
    I agree that if fleet is included on the map it should be more equal to the rest of the zones. I've lost a lot of GA's where they clear my two lower zones, while I clear their two top zones and lose. If they have some Meta team that I don't have a counter for and they place it on Defense in the lower zone its over.

    All they have to do is clear my lower area and they win automatically.

    All you have to do is to hold the lower territories instead of the top territories.

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