Best Way to Fix current GL Imbalance... Rework Rose!

We have been talking about for weeks that the SLKR buffs have upset the balance of the Force/GL/game.

In particular the problem is that SLKR with his FO required characters can beat everything while Rey requires other top meta characters from other factions and can’t beat SLKR with her Resistance allies only. Furthermore all the relic FO characters needed to unlock SLKR have utility while the Rose Tico does not and has been sorely neglected/maligned.

A great rework to make her part of an Inspired Resistance powerhouse would bring the needed balance.

Replies

  • KalHorn
    88 posts Member
    edited August 1
    Thinking about Rose rework. Here’s my latest proposal.

    Courageous shot (Basic):
    Deal physical damage to target enemy and grant 1 stack of Inspiration to a random Resistance ally that does not have 3 stacks. 66% chance to attack again and 33% chance to attack a third time.
    Edit: instead of Inspiration granted, I propose keeping it as Tenacity up

    Dauntless Bravery (Special 1):
    Resistance and Inspired allies gain Defense up and Tenacity up. Remove buffs and apply buff immunity to target enemy for 2 turns. Rose Tico gains 10% Turn Meter for each Resistance ally and each First Order enemy. This attack cannot be evaded.
    Edit: Per tenacity up on basic, I propose not including tenacity up in this ability.

    Shock Prod Strike (Special 2):
    Deal special damage to target enemy and inflict Stun for 1 turn. When this Stun expires the target is Dazed for 2 turns. This Stun and Daze cannot be evaded or resisted.

    Valiant Spirit (Unique):
    Rose Tico gains 10% offense for each Exposed enemy and each Inspired Resistance ally. When another Resistance ally scores a Critical hit or loses a stack of Inspiration, Rose Tico gains 10% TM.

    Saving What We Love (Unique 2):
    Rose Tico ignores taunt. At the start of the battle Rose Tico gains 10% Turn Meter for each Resistance ally and each First Order enemy. Inspired Resistance allies are immune to shock.
    Post edited by KalHorn on
  • Effectively, this allows Rose to go first and Remove Advantage/put buff immunity on Hux while buffing her team. Then she goes again to either stun someone or spread Inspiration.

    SLKR would handedly win on offense still but they have to decide between dispelling Resistance buffs or dispelling the buff immunity/stun.

    DR counter would be much more difficult, coming down to speeds and RNG. Vader would be still possible I imagine but more difficult with the Tenacity up
  • Great suggestions Kal. Most Impressive
  • Thanks! If too OP then could leave the tenacity up on her basic (her current kit) instead of inspiration but increase the multi attack chance as I did. Then take Tenacity Up out of Dauntless Bravery.
  • nice integration of inspire mechanic in her kit. I could definitely see this ingame, sadly it won't happen
  • My faith in CG has been restored lately. Rose’s lack of a rework is the only thing still putting a bad taste in my mouth. I am hoping that @CG_SBCrumb or the others may take notice. I can imagine how difficult balancing kits is to address needs like Rey-Resistance has to beat SLKR without tipping the scales the other way. I think something like this addresses the various counters in an appropriate way.
  • All for it but my initial reaction with all that TM gain is there would be a high likely hood of creating an infinite loop with Rose if the changes were take place. I have no proof that would happen that’s just my initial thought. Someone smarter than me can figure out if all that TM gain would create one.
  • ZaneMorell wrote: »
    All for it but my initial reaction with all that TM gain is there would be a high likely hood of creating an infinite loop with Rose if the changes were take place.

    Valid concern. So the changes in TM gain is the starting TM and the gain when allies lose inspired stacks. I don’t think this would create any infinite loop scenario and here’s why.

    The starting TM just creates the ability to take 2 turns in quick succession and potentially before anyone else moves but then doesn’t impact TM for rest of the battle.
    For the gain on Inspiration lost, Of course if Hux is on full FO team and has advantage that stops all Rose TM gain. If she removes advantage and applies buff immunity that can be quickly dispelled by himself or his allies. Lots of crit AOEs will generate up to 50% TM on Rose but is dependent on the actions of the opposing team and under Rey the Resistance frequently have crit immunity.

    Perhaps best though if Rose gains more TM but only when allies lose Inspiration all together. With reflection I do think Inspiration on her basic is probably too much and will edit my original post.
  • Wow, great idea. Would make her useful
  • She deserves to be as useful in the game as her part of the plot of the sequel trilogy. Which is to say not useful at all.
  • She deserves to be as useful in the game as her part of the plot of the sequel trilogy. Which is to say not useful at all.

    She was much more useful/important than FOX or Phasma. Phasma just gave the Resistance what they wanted at the first threat
  • Phasma wasn’t all that important, she was just Kylo Ren’s right hand. FOX is just a trooper and didn’t have any lines. Very different from Rose
  • This is not a bad suggestion, but it's not exactly a good on either. Mostly because there are quite a few problems considering synergy an counters.
    I can see that you already realized that making allies Inspired is not only overpowered, but also overkill. Rey and the resistance heroes can inspire allies like wildfire. But if you wish to add her to this team, why aren't you using inspired more? I mean you made the basic quite rng dependent, but that just seems pointless to me. Why not something like this: "Deal Physical damage to target enemy and grant Tenacity Up for 2 turns to a random Resistance ally that doesn't have it yet. 50% chance to attack again, doubled while Rose is Inspired (limited once per turn)." Wouldn't that just work better or is it just me?
    Next up I want to talk about the uniques, as they have quite a few things that bother me. First of all, why 2 uniques? Both are pretty small/short and both deal with Turn meter gain and Inspired mainly. So there is no reason these are 2 separate uniques instead of just 1. Other than power inflation, which I am really against. It would also puts her more in line with the Resistance heroes, which both have 4 abilities each.
    The second thing that bothers me with the uniques is that you say the turn meter gain, taunt ignore, and dispel + buff immunity on her are to counter hux. But that won't work. Because hux prevents turn meter gain. Hux gains advantage at the start of battle and prevents turn meter gain while he has advantage. Yes, both rose's turn meter gain and hux's advantage gain are at the same moment, but in those cases it's all about the effects themselves. And since hux's effect is all about turn meter prevention, it's effectively a hard counter and takes priority over rose's turn meter gain. So Rose won't gain any turn meter at the start of battle. (a good example of this is Bastilla's lead. That lead grants 15% turn meter to jedi allies at the start of battle, which Hux prevents. See this video for example. You can see during Wat's Bonus turn that all jedi still have 0% turn meter, despite the 15% turn meter gain from Bastilla's lead, and there are no other turn meter prevention effects in either team: https://youtube.com/watch?v=9lFf9wATHRk)
    The third thing that bothers me about the uniques is the synergy. Rey and resistance heroes have no exposes, and since both Resistance heroes use special damage, they don't have high critical chance. Yes both resistance heroes have critical chance as their Mastery bonus, but even with that RFinn has 40% and RPoe has 33%. (and SLKR can syphon mastery so that is going to backfire there more than anything). Rey does have high critical chance (79%), but then there is still Hux. Who can also dispel debuffs from himself. (and is usually not the only dispel-er on the team). Bottom line, there is a reason the only turn meter manipulation rey and the resistance heroes have is Turn meter swap. Cause all others forms are practically useless against SLKR and Hux.
    Overall a pretty good idea, but it needs more work if it's really to work with them. her unique will need to be completely reworked from scratch if you want any hope of this working. P.s. I did a rework idea of Poe Dameron and rose tico a while ago. They where more focused towards the old Finn than rey, but I like any chance to promote some old work of mine, especially after I made some changes after reading your idea. You can find it here, if you're interested: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/195706/poe-dameron-and-rose-tico-rework-ideas/p1
    Still think yours has a good basic idea, but it's execution falls a bit flat. But I do believe that with some work, it could definitely work and would be an awesome idea.
  • KalHorn
    88 posts Member
    edited August 2
    Where did my detailed response go?
  • KalHorn
    88 posts Member
    edited August 2
    Well cliff notes since I am not rewriting all that.
    -Good point on the basic
    - Leader abilities activate after uniques
    -Unique TM gain at start of battle is not blocked by Hux unique (see BB8/droids)
    -This allows Rose to control Hux for start of battle (especially with Finn TM swaps after his first one to Poe) and make use of Rose TM gain typically until after SLKR 2nd turn where he AOE removes probably 4 stacks of inspiration BEFORE he dispels buff immunity on Hux and gives him Advantage.
    -I tried to keep as much as possible of Rose original kit synergy with JTR and Finn lead (expose offense and crit chance TM gain)
    -I like how you did Rose expose synergy much better than her original kit/how I left it
  • KalHorn wrote: »
    Well cliff notes since I am not rewriting all that.
    -Good point on the basic
    - Leader abilities activate after uniques
    -Unique TM gain at start of battle is not blocked by Hux unique (see BB8/droids)
    -This allows Rose to control Hux for start of battle (especially with Finn TM swaps after his first one to Poe) and make use of Rose TM gain typically until after SLKR 2nd turn where he AOE removes probably 4 stacks of inspiration BEFORE he dispels buff immunity on Hux and gives him Advantage.
    -I tried to keep as much as possible of Rose original kit synergy with JTR and Finn lead (expose offense and crit chance TM gain)
    -I like how you did Rose expose synergy much better than her original kit/how I left it

    I have no idea where your detailed response went. But just because I think it's fun, I'll cliff-note my response as much as I can as well.
    • Thank you
    • Didn't know that. (After years I'm still learning new things about the game. Neat.)
    • Also didn't now that. (again, neat)
    • Seems fair due to the previous 2 points.
    • Also seems fair. I did that as well in my version (except for her unique, as I just thought that one was bad)
    • And thank you. Glad you liked it.
  • P.s. I noticed no response to the fact that I said the 2 uniques could easily be one. Also no response to my rework of Poe (thou that one makes a bit more sense, given the topic). But to go into more detail on the 2 uniques becoming one, here is a Suggestion:
    Valiant Spirit (Unique):
    At the start of battle, Rose gains 10% Turn Meter for each Resistance ally and each First Order enemy. In addition, Rose gains 10% Turn Meter whenever another Resistance ally scores a Critical Hit or loses a Stack of Inspiration.
    Rose ignores Taunt during her turn and gains +10% Offence for each Exposed enemy and each Inspired ally. While Rose is active, Inspired Resistance allies are immune to Shock.
  • The Poe rework you have would be awesome. In particular I like the crit immunity when taunting.
    That one unique for Rose makes sense and would be better than how I put it. I had done a second simply to keep it from being too long.
  • KalHorn wrote: »
    The Poe rework you have would be awesome. In particular I like the crit immunity when taunting.
    That one unique for Rose makes sense and would be better than how I put it. I had done a second simply to keep it from being too long.

    Thanks, glad you like it.
    A bit lazy but seems fair.
  • After all this talking about Rose rework and GL Rey needing an update, I wanted to take a full shot at it myself. I made a kit idea for Ovissian Gunner (Enforcer from Star Wars Battlefront 2). Would love it if you checked it out and left some feedback there: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/234102/ovissian-gunner-kit-idea-inspired-resistance-tank
  • Posted in that thread. Would be an awesome kit on that gunner. Gonna make a few revisions to my Rose proposal and post in discord Swgoh Events server
  • KalHorn wrote: »
    Posted in that thread. Would be an awesome kit on that gunner. Gonna make a few revisions to my Rose proposal and post in discord Swgoh Events server

    Sounds good. Good luck with that.
  • With your feedback here’s my edited kit:
    Rose rework to bring Inspired Rey-Resistance competitive with SLKR-FO.

    Basic: Courageous Shot
    Deal Physical damage to target enemy and grant Tenacity Up for 2 turns to a random Resistance ally that doesn't have it yet. 50% chance to attack again, doubled while Rose Tico is Inspired.

    Special 1: Dauntless Bravery (Cooldown 5):
    Resistance and Inspired allies gain Defense up for 2 turns. Remove buffs and apply buff immunity to target enemy for 2 turns. Rose Tico gains 10% Turn Meter for each Resistance ally and each First Order enemy. This attack cannot be evaded.

    Special 2: Shock Prod Strike (Cooldown 5)
    Deal special damage to target enemy and inflict Stun for 1 turn. When this Stun expires the target is Dazed for 2 turns. This Stun and Daze cannot be evaded or resisted.

    Unique: Valiant Spirit (zeta)
    At the start of battle, Rose gains 10% Turn Meter for each Resistance ally and each First Order enemy. Rose gains 10% Turn Meter whenever another Resistance ally scores a Critical Hit or loses a Stack of Inspiration.
    Rose ignores Taunt during her turn and gains +10% Offence for each Exposed enemy and each Inspired ally. While Rose is active, Inspired Resistance allies are immune to Shock.
  • The last version looks really nice. Well done.
    On a different node, I realized a few things after making Ovissian gunner:
    1. This team, with my kit idea and you rework idea, exists out of 4 attackers and 1 tank.
    2. Hero Finn can rally allies, which causes a different effect for each role, with supporters and healers healing all allies for 15% health and protection.
    3. Due to all of Rey's abilities being based on health, this healing from his rally would be really useful (thou a full on healer word be overkill)
    4. There are only 3 support characters in the entire resistance faction: R2-D2, C-3PO and BB-8. All of whom fit into different teams and/or factions much better. There isn't a full on Support Resistance character.
    5. During my research for Ovissian Gunner, I also found Caphex Spy (he was part of the same expansion).
    6. Due to all of the above point, a Kit Idea was forming in my head. And I know that once an idea starts forming, I can't focus or sleep until I have it on paper. (I really like my sleep.)
    So yeah, I ended up making a kit idea for Caphex Spy to be a 5th for this team as well (seeing as my idea for Rose is more focused on a Finn lead team. Your idea is still very good as well. But I like designing and more options is always nice). After that I was a bit afraid they would help counter SLKR a bit too much, and Sebek ended up posting an idea for First Oder Flametrooper around the same time. So that one ended up being made as well (see my point on me liking to design, as well as the one about my concentration and sleep).
    My point is, I would like it if you checked those 2 out as well. You can find them here, if you're interested:
    Link to Caphex Spy Kit Idea
    Link to First Order Flametrooper Kit Idea
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