Han apparently shot fifth?!?

Replies

  • Ultra
    11454 posts Moderator
    Also, and I could be wrong here, if the old way was Han and the enemy squad all had bonus turns at the start of the round, wasn’t a coin flip mechanic in place? If so, Han never, ever losing that coin flip over millions of rounds played makes this seem sketchy.

    You are correct. Previously, Han would always go first, which made me believe everyone enemy unit had 100% TM preloaded as opposed to taking bonus turns
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Ultra wrote: »
    Also, and I could be wrong here, if the old way was Han and the enemy squad all had bonus turns at the start of the round, wasn’t a coin flip mechanic in place? If so, Han never, ever losing that coin flip over millions of rounds played makes this seem sketchy.

    You are correct. Previously, Han would always go first, which made me believe everyone enemy unit had 100% TM preloaded as opposed to taking bonus turns

    in this event, they gain bonus turns. always have, the event hasn't changed.
  • Ultra
    11454 posts Moderator
    edited August 2020
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Also, and I could be wrong here, if the old way was Han and the enemy squad all had bonus turns at the start of the round, wasn’t a coin flip mechanic in place? If so, Han never, ever losing that coin flip over millions of rounds played makes this seem sketchy.

    You are correct. Previously, Han would always go first, which made me believe everyone enemy unit had 100% TM preloaded as opposed to taking bonus turns

    in this event, they gain bonus turns. always have, the event hasn't changed.

    I’m not saying anything was changed. Before the introduction of overfill TM - Han always went first similar to Han vs Wat; Which I’m affirming since it was asked
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Ultra wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Also, and I could be wrong here, if the old way was Han and the enemy squad all had bonus turns at the start of the round, wasn’t a coin flip mechanic in place? If so, Han never, ever losing that coin flip over millions of rounds played makes this seem sketchy.

    You are correct. Previously, Han would always go first, which made me believe everyone enemy unit had 100% TM preloaded as opposed to taking bonus turns

    in this event, they gain bonus turns. always have, the event hasn't changed.

    I’m not saying anything was changed. Before the introduction of overfill TM - Han always went first similar to Han vs Wat; Which I’m affirming since it was asked

    got it
  • ShaggyB
    2390 posts Member
    This needs a fix
  • Kyno wrote: »
    either way believe it or not, they made no changes to the event. they are looking into it and we will see what they come back with.

    I think you forgot the word "intentional" before changes.

    It's pretty clear that changes were made and devs are the only people who can make changes. You can deny it but reality disagrees.
  • icanectc wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    This needs a fix

    I'd be shocked if Crumb ever responds to this thread again. So I'd bank on this not being fixed.

    I mean they are investigating it which means it's flagged as a bug.
    It will likely be a low priority though, it's not really a high impact bug.
  • CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Hi folks, as Kyno mention, these units are also being granted a Bonus Turn. Which means the unit that will go first will have the highest amount of Turn Meter, then highest speed if tied for TM, then randomly selected if tied for speed as well. The new system for turn order specifically prioritizes all the units with bonus turns over any other units.

    In this case, the enemies in Tiers 3 and 4 of the Smuggler's Run event are being granted a bonus turn as part of their event buffs. If Han Solo has no Turn Meter at the end of an encounter, it is possible for the enemies to go before him if they have more Speed than he does.

    You know, this sounds like hogwash. I don't believe you. You are handwaving at this.

    Uh, well the enemies are being granted bonus turns too, and they are faster than Han! Yeah, that's the ticket!

    I expect more "bonus turn" problems to show up in the future on other heroes.

    Han did not need a nerf. Lame.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Also, and I could be wrong here, if the old way was Han and the enemy squad all had bonus turns at the start of the round, wasn’t a coin flip mechanic in place? If so, Han never, ever losing that coin flip over millions of rounds played makes this seem sketchy.

    You are correct. Previously, Han would always go first, which made me believe everyone enemy unit had 100% TM preloaded as opposed to taking bonus turns

    in this event, they gain bonus turns. always have, the event hasn't changed.

    Regardless if the event coding hasn’t changed, Han NO LONGER shoots first, which is definitively wrong. Crumb even said it in his dev post about the TM rework.

    If this event is WAI, and always has been, then Han is no longer WAI. His coding needs to be changed to reflect the devs’ assertion that he will “always shoot first as he should.”
  • CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Hi folks, as Kyno mention, these units are also being granted a Bonus Turn. Which means the unit that will go first will have the highest amount of Turn Meter, then highest speed if tied for TM, then randomly selected if tied for speed as well. The new system for turn order specifically prioritizes all the units with bonus turns over any other units.

    In this case, the enemies in Tiers 3 and 4 of the Smuggler's Run event are being granted a bonus turn as part of their event buffs. If Han Solo has no Turn Meter at the end of an encounter, it is possible for the enemies to go before him if they have more Speed than he does.


    Additional Note: While Wat Tambor and Han Solo (Raid version) both take a Bonus Turn at the start of battle, Han Solo will always shoot first (as he should!)
    Post edited by CG_SBCrumb on August 7

    Which one is true .
  • I remember that some time ago Han didn't always go first in any round of this event (a year ago?) but then they made a change and he always went first, which made the event much more predictable and enjoyable.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    either way believe it or not, they made no changes to the event. they are looking into it and we will see what they come back with.

    I think you forgot the word "intentional" before changes.

    It's pretty clear that changes were made and devs are the only people who can make changes. You can deny it but reality disagrees.

    no I didn't. the change was adding in the Turn meter system, nothing in the event was changed, other than adding in the turn meter system as a global thing.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    either way believe it or not, they made no changes to the event. they are looking into it and we will see what they come back with.

    I think you forgot the word "intentional" before changes.

    It's pretty clear that changes were made and devs are the only people who can make changes. You can deny it but reality disagrees.

    no I didn't. the change was adding in the Turn meter system, nothing in the event was changed, other than adding in the turn meter system as a global thing.

    OK they didn't change the event. They made a global change that changed the event.

    Why argue symantics though?

    Why would you say "believe it or not they made no changes to the event" when u know they made a global change that caused the event to change?

    Seems really misleading...

    imo.... a lot better to come out and explain this is a global change that impacted the event rather than saying believe it or not the event was not changed while people are observing the actual change in the event.
  • ShaggyB
    2390 posts Member
    edited August 2020
    It stil needs fixing. Han isnt shooting first when his kit clearly says he will. It doesnt have any catch 22's thrown in their to allow for this new way of doing event turn meter/bonus turn to matter.

    Han shoots first, period. The only exception is when other team has han. Then you start figuring out who hs more speed or turn meter bonus... etc.

    Fix your game CG. Its not that hard
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    either way believe it or not, they made no changes to the event. they are looking into it and we will see what they come back with.

    I think you forgot the word "intentional" before changes.

    It's pretty clear that changes were made and devs are the only people who can make changes. You can deny it but reality disagrees.

    no I didn't. the change was adding in the Turn meter system, nothing in the event was changed, other than adding in the turn meter system as a global thing.

    OK they didn't change the event. They made a global change that changed the event.

    Why argue symantics though?

    Why would you say "believe it or not they made no changes to the event" when u know they made a global change that caused the event to change?

    Seems really misleading...

    imo.... a lot better to come out and explain this is a global change that impacted the event rather than saying believe it or not the event was not changed while people are observing the actual change in the event.

    Because they didnt change the event, they changed the game. Which people knew, so saying they changed the event, is not accurate.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    PVE. Places we can use Han. And remember, this affects everyone at every level. So even though some of these events are very easy to beat for end game users. Not all users are end game.

    Assault battles
    Galactic challenges - all of them
    Smugglers run
    Omega battles
    Every heroic and mythic level that doesn’t require a specific team
    Daily challenges.
    Galactic war
    Light and dark side battles
    Cantina battles
    Mod battles and challenges
    Raids.

    That’s several places. How many of those have enemy toons that get secret bonus turns?

    So of this list the only ones effected by this that I can see, meaning they have bonus turns at the start of a wave, and you can use Han:

    Possibly one assault battle
    GCs (for all but 1, it's a choice)

    I don't believe anything else on that list is affected.

    And obviously smugglers run.
    What about lstb or Hoth?

    Yeah, obviously. Sorry I missed that one.

    Nope those shouldn't have any issues

    Also rebels kind of stink in LSGeo

    Rey + Bros + Chewie + Han is a 4/4 easy mode due to the Poe zeta interaction with Chewie AoE. And being able to stun any sniper droid at the start, or wipe out a B2 first turn is a huge part of that.
  • Lor_San_Teka
    558 posts Member
    edited August 2020
    Dp
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    PVE. Places we can use Han. And remember, this affects everyone at every level. So even though some of these events are very easy to beat for end game users. Not all users are end game.

    Assault battles
    Galactic challenges - all of them
    Smugglers run
    Omega battles
    Every heroic and mythic level that doesn’t require a specific team
    Daily challenges.
    Galactic war
    Light and dark side battles
    Cantina battles
    Mod battles and challenges
    Raids.

    That’s several places. How many of those have enemy toons that get secret bonus turns?

    So of this list the only ones effected by this that I can see, meaning they have bonus turns at the start of a wave, and you can use Han:

    Possibly one assault battle
    GCs (for all but 1, it's a choice)

    I don't believe anything else on that list is affected.

    And obviously smugglers run.
    What about lstb or Hoth?

    Yeah, obviously. Sorry I missed that one.

    Nope those shouldn't have any issues

    Also rebels kind of stink in LSGeo

    Rey + Bros + Chewie + Han is a 4/4 easy mode due to the Poe zeta interaction with Chewie AoE. And being able to stun any sniper droid at the start, or wipe out a B2 first turn is a huge part of that.

    LS Geo TB, Han should shoot first, so no issue there.
  • ShaggyB
    2390 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    PVE. Places we can use Han. And remember, this affects everyone at every level. So even though some of these events are very easy to beat for end game users. Not all users are end game.

    Assault battles
    Galactic challenges - all of them
    Smugglers run
    Omega battles
    Every heroic and mythic level that doesn’t require a specific team
    Daily challenges.
    Galactic war
    Light and dark side battles
    Cantina battles
    Mod battles and challenges
    Raids.

    That’s several places. How many of those have enemy toons that get secret bonus turns?

    So of this list the only ones effected by this that I can see, meaning they have bonus turns at the start of a wave, and you can use Han:

    Possibly one assault battle
    GCs (for all but 1, it's a choice)

    I don't believe anything else on that list is affected.

    And obviously smugglers run.
    What about lstb or Hoth?

    Yeah, obviously. Sorry I missed that one.

    Nope those shouldn't have any issues

    Also rebels kind of stink in LSGeo

    Rey + Bros + Chewie + Han is a 4/4 easy mode due to the Poe zeta interaction with Chewie AoE. And being able to stun any sniper droid at the start, or wipe out a B2 first turn is a huge part of that.

    LS Geo TB, Han should shoot first, so no issue there.

    His kit indicates he should everywhere though
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    PVE. Places we can use Han. And remember, this affects everyone at every level. So even though some of these events are very easy to beat for end game users. Not all users are end game.

    Assault battles
    Galactic challenges - all of them
    Smugglers run
    Omega battles
    Every heroic and mythic level that doesn’t require a specific team
    Daily challenges.
    Galactic war
    Light and dark side battles
    Cantina battles
    Mod battles and challenges
    Raids.

    That’s several places. How many of those have enemy toons that get secret bonus turns?

    So of this list the only ones effected by this that I can see, meaning they have bonus turns at the start of a wave, and you can use Han:

    Possibly one assault battle
    GCs (for all but 1, it's a choice)

    I don't believe anything else on that list is affected.

    And obviously smugglers run.
    What about lstb or Hoth?

    Yeah, obviously. Sorry I missed that one.

    Nope those shouldn't have any issues

    Also rebels kind of stink in LSGeo

    Rey + Bros + Chewie + Han is a 4/4 easy mode due to the Poe zeta interaction with Chewie AoE. And being able to stun any sniper droid at the start, or wipe out a B2 first turn is a huge part of that.

    LS Geo TB, Han should shoot first, so no issue there.

    His kit indicates he should everywhere though

    technically speaking, no it doesn't. the title of the ability may lead you to believe that, but his kit is in the description, not the title.

    feel free to report instances where he doesn't as a bug, and i'm sure they will review it. with this new TM system in place, I'm guessing they can make it happen, but I dont think they will go through and do it without some insistence by the community. currently there are some places where he may not, and even in those I dont believe it will consistently be one way or the other, its following the rules of the new system.
  • New system also affecting Thrawn Grand Admiral's Command, Commander Luke Call-To-Action, Darth Vader Merciless Massacre.

    Thrawn Some time ago the player's complained because when Thrawn would use his Grand Admiral's Command ability, the target ally would often not immediately get the next turn. Devs eventually changed the game mechanic to ensure that the target ally would go next. Under the new system, the target ally is not guaranteed the next turn.

    Commander Luke If CLS uses the Call to Action ability, he gains 100% TM. Under the new system, CLS is not guaranteed to immediately get the next turn.

    Darth Vader When Vader uses Merciless Massacre, he gains a bonus turn. Whenever he attacks an enemy with Merciless Target, he gains a bonus turn. Under the previous system, Vader could continue attacking until all Merciless Targets had been consumed, providing that Vader was not somehow disabled by a counter-attack. Other units that might have gained bonus turns due to Vader's attacks had to wait until Vader had completed Merciless. Under the new system, Merciless may be interrupted by other units that gain bonus turns or turn meter.

    I'm sure there will be more. Bonus turns do not mean the same thing that they used to. Lame update is lame.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    New system also affecting Thrawn Grand Admiral's Command, Commander Luke Call-To-Action, Darth Vader Merciless Massacre.

    Thrawn Some time ago the player's complained because when Thrawn would use his Grand Admiral's Command ability, the target ally would often not immediately get the next turn. Devs eventually changed the game mechanic to ensure that the target ally would go next. Under the new system, the target ally is not guaranteed the next turn.

    Commander Luke If CLS uses the Call to Action ability, he gains 100% TM. Under the new system, CLS is not guaranteed to immediately get the next turn.

    Darth Vader When Vader uses Merciless Massacre, he gains a bonus turn. Whenever he attacks an enemy with Merciless Target, he gains a bonus turn. Under the previous system, Vader could continue attacking until all Merciless Targets had been consumed, providing that Vader was not somehow disabled by a counter-attack. Other units that might have gained bonus turns due to Vader's attacks had to wait until Vader had completed Merciless. Under the new system, Merciless may be interrupted by other units that gain bonus turns or turn meter.

    I'm sure there will be more. Bonus turns do not mean the same thing that they used to. Lame update is lame.

    yes its not a guarantee, but what you are talking about here are all the edge cases, Thrawn they mentioned.

    CLS would have to use his ability after "winning" his turn due to having equal(and then random) or more Overflow.

    Vader, is basically JKA or Malak as the only ones that can squeeze in there. (which they could have before)

    I'm sure there will be more, and thing will change as time goes on, but nothing here is really a change from before, we just didnt' have any cases where you could "test" this to see it wasn't a guarantee before the TM change was introduced.
  • Grievous can squeeze in there with a big AOE, reported by a guildmate during last TW.

    "Nothing here is really a change" except for all the things that have changed. I get it, it doesn't bother you that they revamped the whole turn meter/bonus turn/who-goes-first deal, but it bothers me. It's stuff like this that turns spenders into non-spenders.
  • Ultra
    11454 posts Moderator
    Darth Vader When Vader uses Merciless Massacre, he gains a bonus turn. Whenever he attacks an enemy with Merciless Target, he gains a bonus turn. Under the previous system, Vader could continue attacking until all Merciless Targets had been consumed, providing that Vader was not somehow disabled by a counter-attack. Other units that might have gained bonus turns due to Vader's attacks had to wait until Vader had completed Merciless. Under the new system, Merciless may be interrupted by other units that gain bonus turns or turn meter.

    This can't be right? There were complaints by players that his MM was being interrupted and CG said Malak / JKA taking a turn during his MM was WAI
  • Ultra
    11454 posts Moderator
    Grievous can squeeze in there with a big AOE, reported by a guildmate during last TW.

    "Nothing here is really a change" except for all the things that have changed. I get it, it doesn't bother you that they revamped the whole turn meter/bonus turn/who-goes-first deal, but it bothers me. It's stuff like this that turns spenders into non-spenders.

    He takes a bonus turn, so its not really a change from how it used to be IIRC
  • Ultra
    11454 posts Moderator
    https://youtu.be/TbVsfqib5Xc?t=854

    Skip to 14:14, you can see GG always interrupted DV's MM even before the new TM overfill changes

    I haven't seen Thrawn swapping and the target not getting a guaranteed turn so I can't speak on that topic, CLS is an edge case where if he wins with overfill and does call to action, he will lose to another player that has any % of overfill yeah
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    PVE. Places we can use Han. And remember, this affects everyone at every level. So even though some of these events are very easy to beat for end game users. Not all users are end game.

    Assault battles
    Galactic challenges - all of them
    Smugglers run
    Omega battles
    Every heroic and mythic level that doesn’t require a specific team
    Daily challenges.
    Galactic war
    Light and dark side battles
    Cantina battles
    Mod battles and challenges
    Raids.

    That’s several places. How many of those have enemy toons that get secret bonus turns?

    So of this list the only ones effected by this that I can see, meaning they have bonus turns at the start of a wave, and you can use Han:

    Possibly one assault battle
    GCs (for all but 1, it's a choice)

    I don't believe anything else on that list is affected.

    And obviously smugglers run.
    What about lstb or Hoth?

    Yeah, obviously. Sorry I missed that one.

    Nope those shouldn't have any issues

    Also rebels kind of stink in LSGeo

    Rey + Bros + Chewie + Han is a 4/4 easy mode due to the Poe zeta interaction with Chewie AoE. And being able to stun any sniper droid at the start, or wipe out a B2 first turn is a huge part of that.

    LS Geo TB, Han should shoot first, so no issue there.

    His kit indicates he should everywhere though

    technically speaking, no it doesn't. the title of the ability may lead you to believe that, but his kit is in the description, not the title.

    You would think it was, wouldn't you? However, one important part of Thrawn's TM swap (the target is guaranteed to take the next turn) was never in the description. It was in in some release notes when his kit was changed, but never in the ability description.
  • Enigmatic_Potato
    796 posts Member
    edited August 2020
    Why does everyone seem surprised that changes to the TM and bonus turn mechanics have changed order that bonus turns and 100% TM occur?

    Of course things are going to be different. If you see something that seems odd, get a video of it and submit a bug report.
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