SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    LordDirt wrote: »
    No way they tested SEE, if so they should be ashamed at releasing him the way he is.

    We can debate this or as I have asked those people saying he is trash can help provide stuff for them to use when trying to champion your cause.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    True. But it was still a very minor part of what JML was, and look where we are now...

    Ok, and if there was a bug with SEE he would have gotten the same treatment.

    There is a pretty severe lack of information to really judge on and examine.


    Lol, so you're basically saying the devs dont test the game at all before they release a new hero?

    Not throwing shade at you, but honestly that's what it sounds like. If the devs did any testing they wouldn't need to have the community compile videos for them showing the problem.

    That's a ridiculous strawman and you know it :joy: Come on don't get ridiculous. I continue to find it interesting that ppl here in the forums are raging about how weak GLEE is and how useless he is. I now know 2 ppl in my alliance who have him. One put him on defense in GAC vs an opponent who also had him. He won that battle with GLEE having 1 defend and no other attempts on him (no ultimate, btw). So is the guy in my alliance just brilliant? Or is there some exaggeration going on about his supposed lack of ability?

    If pretty much every team can beat him, as is being suggested, then how is that possible?


    So....that's pretty weak. SEE on defense with 1 attempt and wont it without SEE going down. The entire circumstance feels like it's missing 90% of the background. Where was the team placed, how did the opponent defend? Did he wall/turtle and left weak teams for Offense? Did the winner have SEE backfielded with good teams up front eating counters? Like yea....ANY team can be good when the circumstances are set.

    As someone that is 11/15 SEE right now it's not really motivating to know I might be getting a dumpster. It also doesn't help that it's constantly said my G12 Traya, scion, nihilus will ALSO need to be R7'ed to make the best of him, when I've spent a lot of time and resourced gearing these garbage can characters to get him, and they won't even synergize with him.

    So one of two things is going on. Either SEE really is garbage and JML owners are trying to detract from any kind of attention or everyone that is complaining has zero idea what they're talking about, and the vods are all staged shenanagens. Hmmmmm.

    I second... essentially all of this. Wanting proof/details goes both ways, and while I’m worried about my eventual SEE unlock being un-buffed, I can’t fathom that he’s actually as bad as he’s portrayed to be.

    If you want someone to be following up with your feedback, why wouldnt you want to give them the best chance to showcase what you are saying?
  • 342vr8lsx1fc.jpg
    uyxxmazi8zws.jpg


    Not a single SEE to be seen in my shard's top 50
    (screenshot only shows top 4 because idk how to show the entire list). And this is an old, old 2016 shard where most people had all the heros needed for SEE.

    But looking at these whales inventories, most of them have SEE too on top of other GLs. But seem to have never use him in Arena at all. I don't even think they use him for offense because I would at least see them on defense for a brief minute, and I check the top 50 throughout the day.

    With my SEE im able to climb a bit and get into the top50, because he's not absolutely terrible on offense (though not nearly as good as the other GLS) but hes so horrible on defense i get knocked out of the top50 minutes later.



    ya1ng1bnomzk.jpg

    Worldwide only 72 people have achieved rank 1 with SEE. That's terrible. And they are more than likely newer arena shards where there are not many SLKs, Reys, and JKLs. Fresh shards are likely to have a lot more people to have gone with the 2 newest GLs instead of the old ones, and since SEE is DECENT vs JML, that's probably hoe they get rank 1.

    If you in older shard with lots of SLKs or Reys, forget it


  • Sewpot
    2010 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    I have see and use him to take 1 every second night (share po with a shard mate) only because the guy before has Luke and see makes that battle a little easier.
    But always take him out after po.
    Reasons people drop is SEE is new and people want to test him out and practice so you are wearing a massive target.
    But also because he ls trash on defences
    I’m ok with him being horrible on defence as long as he’s an atomic bomb on offence. I would except him to even hit harder then slkr for that trade off but unfortunately that’s not the case.
  • Bora wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    342vr8lsx1fc.jpg
    uyxxmazi8zws.jpg


    Not a single SEE to be seen in my shard's top 50
    (screenshot only shows top 4 because idk how to show the entire list). And this is an old, old 2016 shard where most people had all the heros needed for SEE.

    But looking at these whales inventories, most of them have SEE too on top of other GLs. But seem to have never use him in Arena at all. I don't even think they use him for offense because I would at least see them on defense for a brief minute, and I check the top 50 throughout the day.

    With my SEE im able to climb a bit and get into the top50, because he's not absolutely terrible on offense (though not nearly as good as the other GLS) but hes so horrible on defense i get knocked out of the top50 minutes later.



    ya1ng1bnomzk.jpg

    Worldwide only 72 people have achieved rank 1 with SEE. That's terrible. And they are more than likely newer arena shards where there are not many SLKs, Reys, and JKLs. Fresh shards are likely to have a lot more people to have gone with the 2 newest GLs instead of the old ones, and since SEE is DECENT vs JML, that's probably hoe they get rank 1.

    If you in older shard with lots of SLKs or Reys, forget it


    I'm one of those 72, and on 4th there's exhibit B. Day one player, back in November 2015.

    Now with that being said I absolutely think that SEE needs a touch up as I stated earlier in this thread, but please let's not paint him like he's total trash.

    Again, IMO he doesn't fall in line with the devs stated design philosophy of a controller that turns out in a glass cannon.
    Before entering ultimate state he does provide just okaish control, but to be fair at least he does sustain his team a bit. Even tho I'd rather see him controlling more and sustaining less.. That might still be ok if it'd just a transitional phase to later greatness.
    The process of gathering charge for the ultimate is bit clunky and is prone to cheesy ways to halt/prevent it, but again, I'd be OK with it if the risk was worth the prize.
    The really meh stuff happens after activating the ultimate. He has one shot with his AOE and then it's basic till the end. He almost completely foregoes control (he only has the locked shock, which is still resistable btw) he totally gives up sustainability, and it's not clear if he keeps stacking mastery or not. All of that would be OK.. If whatever stat he gained so far would be sufficient to dish out enough damage to finish off a lone rey without running against the clock, or at least have a shot here and there against kylo.

    Average control just to scrape by? OK..
    Odd and limited team sustainability? OK..
    Slow/vulnerable to get to ultimate? OK..
    No clean wins/bad for gac banners? OK..
    Not particularly good on defense? OK..
    Weak damage after ultimate? NOT OK

    For such tradeoffs, I expect him to be heavily skewed toward offense and bring home the day 99% of the time once one gets to the ultimate against all odds. That, or change design philosophy and balance out some of the above mentioned cons.

    He's in GL's ballpark, he should have something he EXCELS at, not scrape by.

    Rey excels at protecting the team, with some spike of damage too.

    Kylo excels at raw damage, in particular over lengthy battles.

    Master Luke conditionally excels at drawing fire and buffing. (he might need a minor touch up too)

    SEE excels at what?

    Mind you, I don't want a ridiculous unbeatable powerhouse, and am more than willing to have both tactical and strategical disadvantages to sustain should I choose SEE over the others. I simply wish to have an incentive to do so other than liking or not the character.

    Whats sad is that most of the time youre forced to allow your opponent take turns to charge your ult, which is the opposite of control. It also means youre often forced to put Drevan on the bench if you want to see that ult before the 3 min mark, which in turn makes it significantly harder to charge Bastillas unique which in turn makes your ult hit for a lot less once you reaches it.
  • I am in a 2016 shard and there is not even 1 SEE in top 50
  • Bora
    440 posts Member
    Bora wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    342vr8lsx1fc.jpg
    uyxxmazi8zws.jpg


    Not a single SEE to be seen in my shard's top 50
    (screenshot only shows top 4 because idk how to show the entire list). And this is an old, old 2016 shard where most people had all the heros needed for SEE.

    But looking at these whales inventories, most of them have SEE too on top of other GLs. But seem to have never use him in Arena at all. I don't even think they use him for offense because I would at least see them on defense for a brief minute, and I check the top 50 throughout the day.

    With my SEE im able to climb a bit and get into the top50, because he's not absolutely terrible on offense (though not nearly as good as the other GLS) but hes so horrible on defense i get knocked out of the top50 minutes later.



    ya1ng1bnomzk.jpg

    Worldwide only 72 people have achieved rank 1 with SEE. That's terrible. And they are more than likely newer arena shards where there are not many SLKs, Reys, and JKLs. Fresh shards are likely to have a lot more people to have gone with the 2 newest GLs instead of the old ones, and since SEE is DECENT vs JML, that's probably hoe they get rank 1.

    If you in older shard with lots of SLKs or Reys, forget it


    I'm one of those 72, and on 4th there's exhibit B. Day one player, back in November 2015.

    Now with that being said I absolutely think that SEE needs a touch up as I stated earlier in this thread, but please let's not paint him like he's total trash.

    Again, IMO he doesn't fall in line with the devs stated design philosophy of a controller that turns out in a glass cannon.
    Before entering ultimate state he does provide just okaish control, but to be fair at least he does sustain his team a bit. Even tho I'd rather see him controlling more and sustaining less.. That might still be ok if it'd just a transitional phase to later greatness.
    The process of gathering charge for the ultimate is bit clunky and is prone to cheesy ways to halt/prevent it, but again, I'd be OK with it if the risk was worth the prize.
    The really meh stuff happens after activating the ultimate. He has one shot with his AOE and then it's basic till the end. He almost completely foregoes control (he only has the locked shock, which is still resistable btw) he totally gives up sustainability, and it's not clear if he keeps stacking mastery or not. All of that would be OK.. If whatever stat he gained so far would be sufficient to dish out enough damage to finish off a lone rey without running against the clock, or at least have a shot here and there against kylo.

    Average control just to scrape by? OK..
    Odd and limited team sustainability? OK..
    Slow/vulnerable to get to ultimate? OK..
    No clean wins/bad for gac banners? OK..
    Not particularly good on defense? OK..
    Weak damage after ultimate? NOT OK

    For such tradeoffs, I expect him to be heavily skewed toward offense and bring home the day 99% of the time once one gets to the ultimate against all odds. That, or change design philosophy and balance out some of the above mentioned cons.

    He's in GL's ballpark, he should have something he EXCELS at, not scrape by.

    Rey excels at protecting the team, with some spike of damage too.

    Kylo excels at raw damage, in particular over lengthy battles.

    Master Luke conditionally excels at drawing fire and buffing. (he might need a minor touch up too)

    SEE excels at what?

    Mind you, I don't want a ridiculous unbeatable powerhouse, and am more than willing to have both tactical and strategical disadvantages to sustain should I choose SEE over the others. I simply wish to have an incentive to do so other than liking or not the character.

    Whats sad is that most of the time youre forced to allow your opponent take turns to charge your ult, which is the opposite of control. It also means youre often forced to put Drevan on the bench if you want to see that ult before the 3 min mark, which in turn makes it significantly harder to charge Bastillas unique which in turn makes your ult hit for a lot less once you reaches it.

    One might say its a very odd thing for a controller to not want to control too much.. Hence my previously suggested modification to get rid of the necessity for a linked enemy to use an ability instead of just taking a turn in order to provide ultimate charge.
    Res non verba
  • Sewpot wrote: »
    I’m ok with him being horrible on defence as long as he’s an atomic bomb on offence. I would except him to even hit harder then slkr for that trade off but unfortunately that’s not the case.

    There in lies the problem. I fully agree with you too.

    I would be OK with SEE bad on defense, if he hit hard on offense. But in his current state he hits like a wet paper bag.

    Clearly the devs intended him to be a powerhouse attacker, because they suggest pairing him with so many tanks. But something is radically wrong because his damage output is lower than most other heros in the game that were released in the last year.

    And ok, even if you bill him as more of a control/support character and not an attacker or defender, he still fails pretty hard at that. He has bizarre synergy with his team that doesn't make much sense (prot vs. health). And I think a lot of it is that his teammates are quite a bit older and weaker heros than the ones you pair with JML/Rey. JML/Rey don't even need to be powerhouses on their own, because they have a strong team with them. But reality is, JML/Rey are better on their own AND have a better team. SEE is worst GL on his own and on top of it his team isn't the greatest and he has horrible synergy with his team, to boot.

    (i say JML/Rey above because Kylo is in a league of his own, evident how he can do things like solo the sith raid and solo SEE as well as wreck Rey and do well vs JML).

    Tbh I think SEE is working as intended because they are going to release new DS heros to go with him and you will need to grind those and relic them to make SEE any good. Just my theory.









  • dgree
    520 posts Member
    Bora wrote: »
    Bora wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    342vr8lsx1fc.jpg
    uyxxmazi8zws.jpg


    Not a single SEE to be seen in my shard's top 50
    (screenshot only shows top 4 because idk how to show the entire list). And this is an old, old 2016 shard where most people had all the heros needed for SEE.

    But looking at these whales inventories, most of them have SEE too on top of other GLs. But seem to have never use him in Arena at all. I don't even think they use him for offense because I would at least see them on defense for a brief minute, and I check the top 50 throughout the day.

    With my SEE im able to climb a bit and get into the top50, because he's not absolutely terrible on offense (though not nearly as good as the other GLS) but hes so horrible on defense i get knocked out of the top50 minutes later.



    ya1ng1bnomzk.jpg

    Worldwide only 72 people have achieved rank 1 with SEE. That's terrible. And they are more than likely newer arena shards where there are not many SLKs, Reys, and JKLs. Fresh shards are likely to have a lot more people to have gone with the 2 newest GLs instead of the old ones, and since SEE is DECENT vs JML, that's probably hoe they get rank 1.

    If you in older shard with lots of SLKs or Reys, forget it


    I'm one of those 72, and on 4th there's exhibit B. Day one player, back in November 2015.

    Now with that being said I absolutely think that SEE needs a touch up as I stated earlier in this thread, but please let's not paint him like he's total trash.

    Again, IMO he doesn't fall in line with the devs stated design philosophy of a controller that turns out in a glass cannon.
    Before entering ultimate state he does provide just okaish control, but to be fair at least he does sustain his team a bit. Even tho I'd rather see him controlling more and sustaining less.. That might still be ok if it'd just a transitional phase to later greatness.
    The process of gathering charge for the ultimate is bit clunky and is prone to cheesy ways to halt/prevent it, but again, I'd be OK with it if the risk was worth the prize.
    The really meh stuff happens after activating the ultimate. He has one shot with his AOE and then it's basic till the end. He almost completely foregoes control (he only has the locked shock, which is still resistable btw) he totally gives up sustainability, and it's not clear if he keeps stacking mastery or not. All of that would be OK.. If whatever stat he gained so far would be sufficient to dish out enough damage to finish off a lone rey without running against the clock, or at least have a shot here and there against kylo.

    Average control just to scrape by? OK..
    Odd and limited team sustainability? OK..
    Slow/vulnerable to get to ultimate? OK..
    No clean wins/bad for gac banners? OK..
    Not particularly good on defense? OK..
    Weak damage after ultimate? NOT OK

    For such tradeoffs, I expect him to be heavily skewed toward offense and bring home the day 99% of the time once one gets to the ultimate against all odds. That, or change design philosophy and balance out some of the above mentioned cons.

    He's in GL's ballpark, he should have something he EXCELS at, not scrape by.

    Rey excels at protecting the team, with some spike of damage too.

    Kylo excels at raw damage, in particular over lengthy battles.

    Master Luke conditionally excels at drawing fire and buffing. (he might need a minor touch up too)

    SEE excels at what?

    Mind you, I don't want a ridiculous unbeatable powerhouse, and am more than willing to have both tactical and strategical disadvantages to sustain should I choose SEE over the others. I simply wish to have an incentive to do so other than liking or not the character.

    Whats sad is that most of the time youre forced to allow your opponent take turns to charge your ult, which is the opposite of control. It also means youre often forced to put Drevan on the bench if you want to see that ult before the 3 min mark, which in turn makes it significantly harder to charge Bastillas unique which in turn makes your ult hit for a lot less once you reaches it.

    One might say its a very odd thing for a controller to not want to control too much.. Hence my previously suggested modification to get rid of the necessity for a linked enemy to use an ability instead of just taking a turn in order to provide ultimate charge.

    Ability use is better because it takes into account counters and assists (FO tanks and lobster!) But yes, if they're feared they won't do those things. It's just the way his ult charge works.

    But it's also weird because of how little SEE does for his squad's tankiness. He reduces 2 enemies' damage and crits, but only until the tank he's forced to link dies (so basically every tank but JML) and it doesn't work on the main damage threat in the meta: enemy GL attackers.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    So, this is also a thing apparently.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIs_yF6rpOM&feature=youtu.be

    Whats this now, like the 5th or 6th ultimate palp counter? ive honestly lost track there are so many popping up.
    SEE with SE is the toughest team and doesn't have too many counters that I'm aware of

    This was an easier lineup tbh

    The problem with SEE with SE is fear. It prevents him from charging his ultimate. Every missed turn due to fear means 0 ultimate charge. It's pretty frustrating tbh. SEE with SE is good pre-ultimate, but once you get his ult, SE has to ride the bench because it will never charge. It's probably good on defense, but it is marginally worse on offense post ult. I mean, you can still win, don't get me wrong, but it kind of defeats the purpose of throwing the ult on SEE if he's never going to charge it.
  • Bora
    440 posts Member
    dgree wrote: »
    Bora wrote: »
    Bora wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    342vr8lsx1fc.jpg
    uyxxmazi8zws.jpg


    Not a single SEE to be seen in my shard's top 50
    (screenshot only shows top 4 because idk how to show the entire list). And this is an old, old 2016 shard where most people had all the heros needed for SEE.

    But looking at these whales inventories, most of them have SEE too on top of other GLs. But seem to have never use him in Arena at all. I don't even think they use him for offense because I would at least see them on defense for a brief minute, and I check the top 50 throughout the day.

    With my SEE im able to climb a bit and get into the top50, because he's not absolutely terrible on offense (though not nearly as good as the other GLS) but hes so horrible on defense i get knocked out of the top50 minutes later.



    ya1ng1bnomzk.jpg

    Worldwide only 72 people have achieved rank 1 with SEE. That's terrible. And they are more than likely newer arena shards where there are not many SLKs, Reys, and JKLs. Fresh shards are likely to have a lot more people to have gone with the 2 newest GLs instead of the old ones, and since SEE is DECENT vs JML, that's probably hoe they get rank 1.

    If you in older shard with lots of SLKs or Reys, forget it


    I'm one of those 72, and on 4th there's exhibit B. Day one player, back in November 2015.

    Now with that being said I absolutely think that SEE needs a touch up as I stated earlier in this thread, but please let's not paint him like he's total trash.

    Again, IMO he doesn't fall in line with the devs stated design philosophy of a controller that turns out in a glass cannon.
    Before entering ultimate state he does provide just okaish control, but to be fair at least he does sustain his team a bit. Even tho I'd rather see him controlling more and sustaining less.. That might still be ok if it'd just a transitional phase to later greatness.
    The process of gathering charge for the ultimate is bit clunky and is prone to cheesy ways to halt/prevent it, but again, I'd be OK with it if the risk was worth the prize.
    The really meh stuff happens after activating the ultimate. He has one shot with his AOE and then it's basic till the end. He almost completely foregoes control (he only has the locked shock, which is still resistable btw) he totally gives up sustainability, and it's not clear if he keeps stacking mastery or not. All of that would be OK.. If whatever stat he gained so far would be sufficient to dish out enough damage to finish off a lone rey without running against the clock, or at least have a shot here and there against kylo.

    Average control just to scrape by? OK..
    Odd and limited team sustainability? OK..
    Slow/vulnerable to get to ultimate? OK..
    No clean wins/bad for gac banners? OK..
    Not particularly good on defense? OK..
    Weak damage after ultimate? NOT OK

    For such tradeoffs, I expect him to be heavily skewed toward offense and bring home the day 99% of the time once one gets to the ultimate against all odds. That, or change design philosophy and balance out some of the above mentioned cons.

    He's in GL's ballpark, he should have something he EXCELS at, not scrape by.

    Rey excels at protecting the team, with some spike of damage too.

    Kylo excels at raw damage, in particular over lengthy battles.

    Master Luke conditionally excels at drawing fire and buffing. (he might need a minor touch up too)

    SEE excels at what?

    Mind you, I don't want a ridiculous unbeatable powerhouse, and am more than willing to have both tactical and strategical disadvantages to sustain should I choose SEE over the others. I simply wish to have an incentive to do so other than liking or not the character.

    Whats sad is that most of the time youre forced to allow your opponent take turns to charge your ult, which is the opposite of control. It also means youre often forced to put Drevan on the bench if you want to see that ult before the 3 min mark, which in turn makes it significantly harder to charge Bastillas unique which in turn makes your ult hit for a lot less once you reaches it.

    One might say its a very odd thing for a controller to not want to control too much.. Hence my previously suggested modification to get rid of the necessity for a linked enemy to use an ability instead of just taking a turn in order to provide ultimate charge.

    Ability use is better because it takes into account counters and assists (FO tanks and lobster!) But yes, if they're feared they won't do those things. It's just the way his ult charge works.

    But it's also weird because of how little SEE does for his squad's tankiness. He reduces 2 enemies' damage and crits, but only until the tank he's forced to link dies (so basically every tank but JML) and it doesn't work on the main damage threat in the meta: enemy GL attackers.

    Also, having it on ability instead of turns means fear, stun, partially daze (no counterattack), shock (no tm gain) and stagger (tm again) are counterproductive. What else is left as main control debuffs? Perhaps it should be ability "or" turn but not more than once per turn.
    Res non verba
  • Decieved prevents counters anyway.

    And if your opponent isn’t taking turns... even if you’re not getting closer to the Ult, aren’t you still winning?
  • Bora
    440 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Decieved prevents counters anyway.

    And if your opponent isn’t taking turns... even if you’re not getting closer to the Ult, aren’t you still winning?

    True about deceived and true again about winning if the opponents doesn't take turns, generally speaking. More specifically thought, you can't really prevent them from taking turns forever, but you can delay your ultimate while not making substantial progress instead of actively work toward victory sinergically. Also, it's kinda odd to have a DS team, particularly a sith one, working bad with debuffs.. Even more so if the leader is supposed to start as a controller and can turn (allegedly) into an attacker only if there's not too much control.
    Res non verba
  • TargetEadu wrote: »
    Decieved prevents counters anyway.

    And if your opponent isn’t taking turns... even if you’re not getting closer to the Ult, aren’t you still winning?

    Ahh if you're winning , who cares anout the ult, eh. Why does he even have an ult again?

    At this point having an instant charged ult that gives him 1,000 extra health would be more useful

  • vincentlondon
    4527 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Idk if it helps but i found that in the GAC history of the top players. So idk what was the gear level but i guess good

    fkl75tp42drq.png
  • dgree
    520 posts Member
    Bora wrote: »
    dgree wrote: »
    Bora wrote: »
    Bora wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    342vr8lsx1fc.jpg
    uyxxmazi8zws.jpg


    Not a single SEE to be seen in my shard's top 50
    (screenshot only shows top 4 because idk how to show the entire list). And this is an old, old 2016 shard where most people had all the heros needed for SEE.

    But looking at these whales inventories, most of them have SEE too on top of other GLs. But seem to have never use him in Arena at all. I don't even think they use him for offense because I would at least see them on defense for a brief minute, and I check the top 50 throughout the day.

    With my SEE im able to climb a bit and get into the top50, because he's not absolutely terrible on offense (though not nearly as good as the other GLS) but hes so horrible on defense i get knocked out of the top50 minutes later.



    ya1ng1bnomzk.jpg

    Worldwide only 72 people have achieved rank 1 with SEE. That's terrible. And they are more than likely newer arena shards where there are not many SLKs, Reys, and JKLs. Fresh shards are likely to have a lot more people to have gone with the 2 newest GLs instead of the old ones, and since SEE is DECENT vs JML, that's probably hoe they get rank 1.

    If you in older shard with lots of SLKs or Reys, forget it


    I'm one of those 72, and on 4th there's exhibit B. Day one player, back in November 2015.

    Now with that being said I absolutely think that SEE needs a touch up as I stated earlier in this thread, but please let's not paint him like he's total trash.

    Again, IMO he doesn't fall in line with the devs stated design philosophy of a controller that turns out in a glass cannon.
    Before entering ultimate state he does provide just okaish control, but to be fair at least he does sustain his team a bit. Even tho I'd rather see him controlling more and sustaining less.. That might still be ok if it'd just a transitional phase to later greatness.
    The process of gathering charge for the ultimate is bit clunky and is prone to cheesy ways to halt/prevent it, but again, I'd be OK with it if the risk was worth the prize.
    The really meh stuff happens after activating the ultimate. He has one shot with his AOE and then it's basic till the end. He almost completely foregoes control (he only has the locked shock, which is still resistable btw) he totally gives up sustainability, and it's not clear if he keeps stacking mastery or not. All of that would be OK.. If whatever stat he gained so far would be sufficient to dish out enough damage to finish off a lone rey without running against the clock, or at least have a shot here and there against kylo.

    Average control just to scrape by? OK..
    Odd and limited team sustainability? OK..
    Slow/vulnerable to get to ultimate? OK..
    No clean wins/bad for gac banners? OK..
    Not particularly good on defense? OK..
    Weak damage after ultimate? NOT OK

    For such tradeoffs, I expect him to be heavily skewed toward offense and bring home the day 99% of the time once one gets to the ultimate against all odds. That, or change design philosophy and balance out some of the above mentioned cons.

    He's in GL's ballpark, he should have something he EXCELS at, not scrape by.

    Rey excels at protecting the team, with some spike of damage too.

    Kylo excels at raw damage, in particular over lengthy battles.

    Master Luke conditionally excels at drawing fire and buffing. (he might need a minor touch up too)

    SEE excels at what?

    Mind you, I don't want a ridiculous unbeatable powerhouse, and am more than willing to have both tactical and strategical disadvantages to sustain should I choose SEE over the others. I simply wish to have an incentive to do so other than liking or not the character.

    Whats sad is that most of the time youre forced to allow your opponent take turns to charge your ult, which is the opposite of control. It also means youre often forced to put Drevan on the bench if you want to see that ult before the 3 min mark, which in turn makes it significantly harder to charge Bastillas unique which in turn makes your ult hit for a lot less once you reaches it.

    One might say its a very odd thing for a controller to not want to control too much.. Hence my previously suggested modification to get rid of the necessity for a linked enemy to use an ability instead of just taking a turn in order to provide ultimate charge.

    Ability use is better because it takes into account counters and assists (FO tanks and lobster!) But yes, if they're feared they won't do those things. It's just the way his ult charge works.

    But it's also weird because of how little SEE does for his squad's tankiness. He reduces 2 enemies' damage and crits, but only until the tank he's forced to link dies (so basically every tank but JML) and it doesn't work on the main damage threat in the meta: enemy GL attackers.

    Also, having it on ability instead of turns means fear, stun, partially daze (no counterattack), shock (no tm gain) and stagger (tm again) are counterproductive. What else is left as main control debuffs? Perhaps it should be ability "or" turn but not more than once per turn.

    Wouldn't no TM gain and loss of TM gain hurt turns as well? But yes, it's a difficult ultimate to charge up, particularly if you're forced to kill one of the linked targets and if your squad is getting murdered due to lack of support in a post-SLKR world.

    @vincentlondon wow, ouch
  • so Is there any SEE comps. which hold good on Defence in ARENA?
    also JML key team use GAS+JKR+JKL
    what SEE should use?
  • Bora
    440 posts Member
    edited October 2020

    Wouldn't no TM gain and loss of TM gain hurt turns as well? But yes, it's a difficult ultimate to charge up, particularly if you're forced to kill one of the linked targets and if your squad is getting murdered due to lack of support in a post-SLKR world.

    Yes it would of course, but if tied to ability it'd be all of them, while on turns "just" some. Maybe the ult charge should trigger for both ability and turn, but no more than once per turn. You'd lose some charge from counterattacks but it should be worth it.
    Post edited by Kyno on
    Res non verba
  • Idk if it helps but i found that in the GAC history of the top players. So idk what was the gear level but i guess good

    fkl75tp42drq.png


    Am I seeing that right, CLS, Mothma, JTR, and GG all beat SEE? Or is that backwards
  • Im in an old arena as well. No one is using SEE in the top 50 either except for one who puts him in so I can easily kill him and take #1 at my payout. He uses JML when he is serious.
    Why wasn't Cobb Vanth shards a reward for the Krayt Dragon raid? Why wasn't Endor Gear Luke shards a reward for the Speeder Bike raid?
  • LordDunbar wrote: »
    Idk if it helps but i found that in the GAC history of the top players. So idk what was the gear level but i guess good

    fkl75tp42drq.png


    Am I seeing that right, CLS, Mothma, JTR, and GG all beat SEE? Or is that backwards

    your seeing it right. Quit against mothma, loss (while having trio) vs RJT (old rey) with resistance, loss against GG, and loss to Rey resistance...

    against RJT treya L trio with 2 other sith/thrawn would of smashed it. Against GG swap in EP lead for a win.
    And SEE struggles vs Rey already so yeah. WW is stupid.
  • And of course rebels can beat SEE... that 1v5 with SEE is a 70% chance to win at best (even with ultimate) due to the sheer DAMAGE of rebels...

    Something that SEE doesn't do
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Idk if it helps but i found that in the GAC history of the top players. So idk what was the gear level but i guess good

    fkl75tp42drq.png


    Am I seeing that right, CLS, Mothma, JTR, and GG all beat SEE? Or is that backwards

    I see one more problem, if we place Malak, Sion, Siths' tank for SEE on Grand Arena, other teams like Triumvirate, DR team lose their tanks. Results are obvious, so due to the fact that Palp doesn't have synergy with Empire, Royal Guard cannot adequatly replace siths' tanks. Paradox that Palp has bonus against Rebels, but doesn't have any tiny synergy with Empire.
  • dgree
    520 posts Member
    You can absolutely use tanks like Shoretrooper, KRU, etc with SEE. The 25% mastery boost SEE provides Sith really isn't that great of a leadership synergy compared to what one might see under GL leads like SLKR, or even non-GL leads (DR, Traya, EP, whatever). The squad will be underwhelming either way.
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    dgree wrote: »
    You can absolutely use tanks like Shoretrooper, KRU, etc with SEE. The 25% mastery boost SEE provides Sith really isn't that great of a leadership synergy compared to what one might see under GL leads like SLKR, or even non-GL leads (DR, Traya, EP, whatever). The squad will be underwhelming either way.

    yes, sure, but Sith allies won't recover health/protection if defeated tanks are not the siths

  • dgree
    520 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Btw, said this elsewhere, but relevant here:
    dgree wrote: »
    I'm mainly curious what SEE's value is supposed to be.

    He was supposed to be able to get to his ultimate and be a "devastating attacker," but that's not generally the case, and Sith squads are often better attacking without him.

    The LS GLs are better in PVP and JML in particular has great performance in the end-game PVE mode, LS CW TB.

    SLKR is both a better attacker at the beginning of battle and a better long-term attacker than a post-ultimate SEE, still is great in arena, and solos one of the top reward modes in the game: HSTR.

    What is it that Palpatine, a brand-new GL with all his requirements and the prominent role he plays in the movies, is supposed to be great at? IMO this is the main question that CG urgently needs to answer.
    SEE obviously doesn't really meet the expectations of people who got him. The only people I've seen who are okay with him are krakens who had most of the requirements anyway and already had 2-3 GLs--it's not that their opinion doesn't matter, but the investment means something very different to them compared to others. And, importantly, SEE's performance doesn't match the developer insights selling him. I'm curious what it is that CG thinks he's supposed to do--our expectations aren't being met, but if those aren't important, what are theirs?
    Xagen wrote: »
    dgree wrote: »
    You can absolutely use tanks like Shoretrooper, KRU, etc with SEE. The 25% mastery boost SEE provides Sith really isn't that great of a leadership synergy compared to what one might see under GL leads like SLKR, or even non-GL leads (DR, Traya, EP, whatever). The squad will be underwhelming either way.

    yes, sure, but Sith allies won't recover health/protection if defeated tanks are not the siths
    Definitely true, you're right. It's main purpose seems to be recovering from stuff like whirlwinds, so it's actually okay at that (as long as multiple toons don't die at once, I think).

    Post edited by dgree on
  • It would be really good to get a response from CG on this other than "we are keeping an eye on things". Is SEE working as intended? If so, I'll abandon the farm now.

    But it would be nice to have an explanation as to why he is designed with so many glaring flaws (such as crippling the most of the sith tanks), and why he doesn't match the pre-release description (e.g. becoming a very strong attacker after ultimate, when he does far less damage than so many other characters).
  • s9om1klui6q0.jpg

    Yeah the new gls are really bad...
  • j1cdgz48l2f9.jpg

    krr6i5mxiobr.jpg²
    bhgorn3ztbjp.jpg

    140K on a Basic when ignoring defense AND dealing 150% more dmg after 4 minutes of stacking mastery. If that isnt poodoo I dont know what is.
  • i almost thought you were defending him then when i saw that image =L
This discussion has been closed.