SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • Just realised that ChewPO CLS even beats Bastilla lead GML, and since both Drevan and EP can already beat standard GML teams youre objectively better of going for ChewPO than SEE 🤪

    Yeah chewpio is far more useful, no regrets.
  • Just realised that ChewPO CLS even beats Bastilla lead GML, and since both Drevan and EP can already beat standard GML teams youre objectively better of going for ChewPO than SEE 🤪

    And by going for ChewPO you are also most the way done getting GML who can even make older grand Republic jedi decent to good... while SEE cant make the trash sith good.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    edited November 2020
    @Xagen can you show the opposite of those battles with SEE on offense.

    Those are great, but losing on defense is not surprising. (And hes things like this have been shared)

    Edit to add: a GL losing to a GL is always going to be ok.
  • Rey’s been shown to usually win versus the three other GLs on Offense but lose to them all on Defense. So that SEE actually gave Rey a bit of a run for her money.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    @Xagen can you show the opposite of those battles with SEE on offense.

    Those are great, but losing on defense is not surprising. (And hes things like this have been shared)

    Edit to add: a GL losing to a GL is always going to be ok.
    Sure, i can just say that it's more Vader counter than See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpG_jRXkidM
    Actually Vader beats successfully even without SEE, we all know that fact.
  • @Kyno By the way, you mentioned that Palp can be used for Grand Arena, it's true, but if i plan to set SEE on defense, I will take 3 siths tanks from my teams to make him more or less good for defense, and Triumvirate loses tank, DREVAN team loses two tanks, and what we have eventually, bad team for defense, two bad teams for attack, right?
  • Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    @Xagen can you show the opposite of those battles with SEE on offense.

    Those are great, but losing on defense is not surprising. (And hes things like this have been shared)

    Edit to add: a GL losing to a GL is always going to be ok.
    Sure, i can just say that it's more Vader counter than See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpG_jRXkidM
    Actually Vader beats successfully even without SEE, we all know that fact.


    I would like to see some videos of SEE beating ult Rey, without Vader in the team
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno By the way, you mentioned that Palp can be used for Grand Arena, it's true, but if i plan to set SEE on defense, I will take 3 siths tanks from my teams to make him more or less good for defense, and Triumvirate loses tank, DREVAN team loses two tanks, and what we have eventually, bad team for defense, two bad teams for attack, right?

    As I have said a few times, there are many great teams that are never used on defense because they have such reliable counters. That doesnt make them less useful, in the grand scheme of things.
  • @LordDunbar With WAT, sorry most videos with SEE countering REY include Vader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYKsejylVWQ
  • Xagen wrote: »
    @LordDunbar With WAT, sorry most videos with SEE countering REY include Vader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYKsejylVWQ

    So SEE basically replaces Vader, and not only that, but he finishes solo (barely alive) vs. Rey for minimal banners. With Vader and Wat I can beat most any Rey team already without SEE, and typically do it with only 1 to 2 losses in the team for more banners.

    So SEE is not reallllly useful to beating GLRey.

    So the consensus stands, the only use SEE has in the game is beating JML teams.
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    @LordDunbar With WAT, sorry most videos with SEE countering REY include Vader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYKsejylVWQ

    So SEE basically replaces Vader, and not only that, but he finishes solo (barely alive) vs. Rey for minimal banners. With Vader and Wat I can beat most any Rey team already without SEE, and typically do it with only 1 to 2 losses in the team for more banners.

    So SEE is not reallllly useful to beating GLRey.

    So the consensus stands, the only use SEE has in the game is beating JML teams.

    i also came to this conclusion, did you see basic damage of post-ultimate see against GK 109 k and the same basic damage against REY smth about 30k more than 3 times less.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno By the way, you mentioned that Palp can be used for Grand Arena, it's true, but if i plan to set SEE on defense, I will take 3 siths tanks from my teams to make him more or less good for defense, and Triumvirate loses tank, DREVAN team loses two tanks, and what we have eventually, bad team for defense, two bad teams for attack, right?

    As I have said a few times, there are many great teams that are never used on defense because they have such reliable counters. That doesnt make them less useful, in the grand scheme of things.

    But from what we can observe, so far, the only practical use SEE has on offense is beating JML teams. I say practical, because any other team out there already has counters that work better. So we are not going to include SEE beating Ewoks or Phoenix as part of the equation.

    So, is it really, a good thing that a galactic legend, who only has one real offensive use, can be beaten so easily on defense?

    It just doesn't add up to me.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno By the way, you mentioned that Palp can be used for Grand Arena, it's true, but if i plan to set SEE on defense, I will take 3 siths tanks from my teams to make him more or less good for defense, and Triumvirate loses tank, DREVAN team loses two tanks, and what we have eventually, bad team for defense, two bad teams for attack, right?

    As I have said a few times, there are many great teams that are never used on defense because they have such reliable counters. That doesnt make them less useful, in the grand scheme of things.

    But from what we can observe, so far, the only practical use SEE has on offense is beating JML teams. I say practical, because any other team out there already has counters that work better. So we are not going to include SEE beating Ewoks or Phoenix as part of the equation.

    So, is it really, a good thing that a galactic legend, who only has one real offensive use, can be beaten so easily on defense?

    It just doesn't add up to me.

    I'm not saying hes where he should be, I feel like he should be way more beast on offense, at possibly the sacrifice of being good on defense.

    But he can give options, and that is the important part. So we just need to figure out where everything is going to settle down.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the modding from that video. Just for damage reference.
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno By the way, you mentioned that Palp can be used for Grand Arena, it's true, but if i plan to set SEE on defense, I will take 3 siths tanks from my teams to make him more or less good for defense, and Triumvirate loses tank, DREVAN team loses two tanks, and what we have eventually, bad team for defense, two bad teams for attack, right?

    As I have said a few times, there are many great teams that are never used on defense because they have such reliable counters. That doesnt make them less useful, in the grand scheme of things.

    But from what we can observe, so far, the only practical use SEE has on offense is beating JML teams. I say practical, because any other team out there already has counters that work better. So we are not going to include SEE beating Ewoks or Phoenix as part of the equation.

    So, is it really, a good thing that a galactic legend, who only has one real offensive use, can be beaten so easily on defense?

    It just doesn't add up to me.

    I'm not saying hes where he should be, I feel like he should be way more beast on offense, at possibly the sacrifice of being good on defense.

    But he can give options, and that is the important part. So we just need to figure out where everything is going to settle down.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the modding from that video. Just for damage reference.

    Just to make sure, he should be beast for offense, for GAC, ok, but even he wins 50/50, as far as i can see, against REY, he loses most units after REY AOE, at the same time some mixed teams like Vader + WAT, Gas + Revan can better perform, i mean banners. Palps system itself is not good for GAC at all, as he usually loses most team till his Ulta is activated. And it's fact
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    While he stay and wait for his ultimate, his allies just die one by one. His kit is not appropriate against GLs with powerful AOE, as siths cannot be revived.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno By the way, you mentioned that Palp can be used for Grand Arena, it's true, but if i plan to set SEE on defense, I will take 3 siths tanks from my teams to make him more or less good for defense, and Triumvirate loses tank, DREVAN team loses two tanks, and what we have eventually, bad team for defense, two bad teams for attack, right?

    As I have said a few times, there are many great teams that are never used on defense because they have such reliable counters. That doesnt make them less useful, in the grand scheme of things.

    But from what we can observe, so far, the only practical use SEE has on offense is beating JML teams. I say practical, because any other team out there already has counters that work better. So we are not going to include SEE beating Ewoks or Phoenix as part of the equation.

    So, is it really, a good thing that a galactic legend, who only has one real offensive use, can be beaten so easily on defense?

    It just doesn't add up to me.

    I'm not saying hes where he should be, I feel like he should be way more beast on offense, at possibly the sacrifice of being good on defense.

    But he can give options, and that is the important part. So we just need to figure out where everything is going to settle down.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the modding from that video. Just for damage reference.

    BTW, if you look at the second video I linked, at 3:55 a deceived Hyoda uses an ability, but Rey doesnt get deceived. Ive noticed that in several battles it seems that Deceive stops spreading (at least to Rey) once SEE transforms. I have the zeta on the unique, and his ult doesnt state that Deceive stops spreading after using it, so is it a bug?
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    Maybe DEVs could have a look at his kit, which doesn't allow him to perform good on Arena, on GA and TW (it's obvious. Not being good on Arena he could hardly be good on GA and TW. Due to his unique kit, owner will lose banners on offense and defense).
  • Kyno wrote: »
    I'm not saying hes where he should be, I feel like he should be way more beast on offense, at possibly the sacrifice of being good on defense.

    Yeah I'd be happy with that, more offense. Already he is bad for defense so I don't think his defense needs to be nerfed any more.

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Xagen wrote: »
    Maybe DEVs could have a look at his kit, which doesn't allow him to perform good on Arena, on GA and TW (it's obvious. Not being good on Arena he could hardly be good on GA and TW. Due to his unique kit, owner will lose banners on offense and defense).

    We were told that at thia point changes to his kit would need a "really good reason". So direct changes without some exploit is not likely. Background changes to his damage and stuff are more likely of they are going to make changes. At least that's my thinking from what has been said.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno By the way, you mentioned that Palp can be used for Grand Arena, it's true, but if i plan to set SEE on defense, I will take 3 siths tanks from my teams to make him more or less good for defense, and Triumvirate loses tank, DREVAN team loses two tanks, and what we have eventually, bad team for defense, two bad teams for attack, right?

    As I have said a few times, there are many great teams that are never used on defense because they have such reliable counters. That doesnt make them less useful, in the grand scheme of things.

    But from what we can observe, so far, the only practical use SEE has on offense is beating JML teams. I say practical, because any other team out there already has counters that work better. So we are not going to include SEE beating Ewoks or Phoenix as part of the equation.

    So, is it really, a good thing that a galactic legend, who only has one real offensive use, can be beaten so easily on defense?

    It just doesn't add up to me.

    I'm not saying hes where he should be, I feel like he should be way more beast on offense, at possibly the sacrifice of being good on defense.

    But he can give options, and that is the important part. So we just need to figure out where everything is going to settle down.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the modding from that video. Just for damage reference.

    BTW, if you look at the second video I linked, at 3:55 a deceived Hyoda uses an ability, but Rey doesnt get deceived. Ive noticed that in several battles it seems that Deceive stops spreading (at least to Rey) once SEE transforms. I have the zeta on the unique, and his ult doesnt state that Deceive stops spreading after using it, so is it a bug?

    I will ask about the deceive spreading.
  • Eweff
    400 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno By the way, you mentioned that Palp can be used for Grand Arena, it's true, but if i plan to set SEE on defense, I will take 3 siths tanks from my teams to make him more or less good for defense, and Triumvirate loses tank, DREVAN team loses two tanks, and what we have eventually, bad team for defense, two bad teams for attack, right?

    As I have said a few times, there are many great teams that are never used on defense because they have such reliable counters. That doesnt make them less useful, in the grand scheme of things.

    But from what we can observe, so far, the only practical use SEE has on offense is beating JML teams. I say practical, because any other team out there already has counters that work better. So we are not going to include SEE beating Ewoks or Phoenix as part of the equation.

    So, is it really, a good thing that a galactic legend, who only has one real offensive use, can be beaten so easily on defense?

    It just doesn't add up to me.

    Doesn’t JML lose to a three man DR-BSF-Wat?
    Plus, doesn’t SEE lose to a JML with Bast lead?

    Edited typo.
    Post edited by Eweff on
  • Bastila Lead, not Fallen Bastila lead. And I’m fairly sure SEE can win that battle.
  • Eweff
    400 posts Member
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Bastila Lead, not Fallen Bastila lead. And I’m fairly sure SEE can win that battle.

    You are correct. I typo-d. But I’m pretty sure I saw ultimate SEE on offense lose to Bast lead JML, but I could be wrong. Let me go look
  • My guess is that it needs some sort of trick to it. Either siphoning all of JML’s natual Prot so he heals less or still having allies around to di things. Not a hard counter, not a pushover, something in the middle.
  • Eweff
    400 posts Member
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    My guess is that it needs some sort of trick to it. Either siphoning all of JML’s natual Prot so he heals less or still having allies around to di things. Not a hard counter, not a pushover, something in the middle.

    I remembered. This is what I was thinking of.

    https://youtu.be/AG69kifKViM
  • Under the rock paper scissors analogy, my daily arena climb is navigating a pair of scissors through an asteroid field.

    In addition to strengths and weaknesses, you also need parity in numbers for this to balance. By the time that happens, the next meta will be here.
  • Sewpot
    2010 posts Member

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    What I’m finding in arena is the AI always goes for traya first. Clobber her as fast as they can and then they kill a tank.
    The more and more I play SEE it’s very clear his only intent was to kill jml. Lame
    I really didn’t need any single characters that I farmed, need to farm extra characters to help the team work yay
    You use the word synergies to describe SEE’ teammates. They don’t synergize well at all.
    Jml team in open moves will already have ability block,stun,buff immunit,breach, etc etc on all the team except SEE. SEE’s next move is call assist. That’s not going to happen.
    All moves with SEE team involves waiting for the next move, wait for the next move.
    Nihilus you wait and wait.
    Sion you wait for nothing.
    SEE is wait, toss fart, wait again

    Not a chance that SEE is on par with the other 3.
    1st- SLKR
    2nd-3- rey/jMl
    4th-SEE

    If they devs can give me a team that saws in half rey,kylo and jml like troopers do to SEE then please gimme gimme gimme!!!
    All other counters take away from their teams, and take some skill and time to have a successful battle.
    Troopers don’t take away from anyone and destroy SEE in seconds.

    On a happy note I started farming jml today and will have him very soon.
    That will be all 4 GLs by the end of the month. So at least I have the cure for that one match if I face jMl. Or some weaker lighside side team.
    And if I face another SEE in defence then I have troopers to help me get max banners.
    So disappointed



  • Eweff wrote: »
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Bastila Lead, not Fallen Bastila lead. And I’m fairly sure SEE can win that battle.

    You are correct. I typo-d. But I’m pretty sure I saw ultimate SEE on offense lose to Bast lead JML, but I could be wrong. Let me go look

    no your right. SEE will lose to a LS bast lead, JML, wat, hyoda, JKL.
    either flat out lose or timeout.

    timeout against non ult JML, flat out lose to ult JML

    Vid as proof. Shardmate admitted he had some mods wrong but the sheer fact that its a timeout, with non ult, says alot. SEE does NO DAMAGE.


    https://youtu.be/PNAybDBVlbI


    I have some other vids with his ult aoe hitting 60k, his basic hitting 40k or less, even against deceived LS targets.

    The best way to fix his kit is to
    A. Add that +50% damage to his basic.
    B. Sow Discord hits any enemy target at SEE turn start, not just LS
    C. Ult Revitalized Shock does 150% more damage to ANY deceived target, not just LS. As well as the 50% bonus from deceive basic carried over into Revitalized Shock

    Give him his damage since the devs refuse to make him work with any of the other sith.... aka work with health and health regeneration.
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