SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • Xagen wrote: »
    SEE with relic Siths was able to complete 4/4 on Phase 4 of Dark Geo, it's true, but High Relic Sith could do definitely 3/4 without him, if he is useful for Dark Geo only, it's sad, as having relic for example Night Sisters you can also complete 4/4 on Phase 4.

    G11 NIHILUS IS GOD TIER under g11 traya, DESTROYS P4 GEO TB 4/4!!!
    (no, my mods are not good)

    p4i70cn91dsx.png

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    @VaderJoker how are you testing this?
  • Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    @VaderJoker how are you testing this?

    SEE can harder beat REY now cause he can not gain protection from those linek guys if their protection are already zero.But he can gain it before because the protection can be negative.Some guys owned ULT SEE has tested that and showed the battles on Youtube.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    @VaderJoker how are you testing this?
    As for Malak,I tested it myself,with SEE and Traya.Traya give Malak the protection but he still Killed by REY just after only one shot,seems like this you called "improve SEE indirectly" do not exist.

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?

    SEE can harder beat REY now cause he can not gain protection from those linek guys if their protection are already zero.But he can gain it before because the protection can be negative.Some guys owned ULT SEE has tested that and showed the battles on Youtube.

    @VaderJoker link?
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?
    As for Malak,I tested it myself,with SEE and Traya.Traya give Malak the protection but he still Killed by REY just after only one shot,seems like this you called "improve SEE indirectly" do not exist.

    I understand that you are referencing one situation where it didn't help, but that doesn't mean that him gaining protection buff doesn't help him in other situations.
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    @Kyno Sorry for previous post, just your advice what is required to make SEE's kit and abilities reviewed, seems meta-data from servers, statistics from swgoh, players feedbacks and videos we have a lot
  • Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?

    SEE can harder beat REY now cause he can not gain protection from those linek guys if their protection are already zero.But he can gain it before because the protection can be negative.Some guys owned ULT SEE has tested that and showed the battles on Youtube.

    @VaderJoker link?
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?
    As for Malak,I tested it myself,with SEE and Traya.Traya give Malak the protection but he still Killed by REY just after only one shot,seems like this you called "improve SEE indirectly" do not exist.

    I understand that you are referencing one situation where it didn't help, but that doesn't mean that him gaining protection buff doesn't help him in other situations.

    Malak may can be better in some else situations but that can't improve SEE's team,on the countary,SEE even can be beated by REY's one shot just because he can never gain protection from those linked characters which already have no protection.When you linked two characters,this so called linked is totally useless after four turns,even less.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?

    SEE can harder beat REY now cause he can not gain protection from those linek guys if their protection are already zero.But he can gain it before because the protection can be negative.Some guys owned ULT SEE has tested that and showed the battles on Youtube.

    VaderJoker link?
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?
    As for Malak,I tested it myself,with SEE and Traya.Traya give Malak the protection but he still Killed by REY just after only one shot,seems like this you called "improve SEE indirectly" do not exist.

    I understand that you are referencing one situation where it didn't help, but that doesn't mean that him gaining protection buff doesn't help him in other situations.

    Malak may can be better in some else situations but that can't improve SEE's team,on the countary,SEE even can be beated by REY's one shot just because he can never gain protection from those linked characters which already have no protection.When you linked two characters,this so called linked is totally useless after four turns,even less.

    I am looking for some demonstration of the change that was in the update and how this change effects the team. do you have a link for that video?

    I'm just trying to help.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Sorry for previous post, just your advice what is required to make SEE's kit and abilities reviewed, seems meta-data from servers, statistics from swgoh, players feedbacks and videos we have a lot

    and they said they are keeping an eye on it. I'm not sure what you point is?

    honestly, they could have been waiting on even looking at any action until this update was out, as this seems it may have some effect on SEE and they wanted this to be accounted for in the examination. but i'm just speculating on that one.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?

    SEE can harder beat REY now cause he can not gain protection from those linek guys if their protection are already zero.But he can gain it before because the protection can be negative.Some guys owned ULT SEE has tested that and showed the battles on Youtube.

    VaderJoker link?
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    VaderJoker wrote: »
    Spharynx01 wrote: »
    Most of the battles versus a R7 and Ulti (or not ulti) SEE ends with a time out, except some battle versus kylo, SEE is still a great challenger, so would you change is kit only because he isn't the best SLKR counter? I can't see a reason to do so... Why shouldn't they rework JML as well if so ? I can feel the disapointment for SEE owners to be hard countered by Kylo's, but Rey owners (I am one of them) felt the same, just accept SLKR is better and go for him instead of looking for the brand new GL ! Newer doesn't always mean better ;)

    no mate.after today's update SEE can't gain protection from the linked characters if their protection is zero.that means SEE can be killed easier.

    VaderJoker how are you testing this?
    As for Malak,I tested it myself,with SEE and Traya.Traya give Malak the protection but he still Killed by REY just after only one shot,seems like this you called "improve SEE indirectly" do not exist.

    I understand that you are referencing one situation where it didn't help, but that doesn't mean that him gaining protection buff doesn't help him in other situations.

    Malak may can be better in some else situations but that can't improve SEE's team,on the countary,SEE even can be beated by REY's one shot just because he can never gain protection from those linked characters which already have no protection.When you linked two characters,this so called linked is totally useless after four turns,even less.

    I am looking for some demonstration of the change that was in the update and how this change effects the team. do you have a link for that video?

    I'm just trying to help.

    https://youtu.be/nHRTM6N00ZM
    https://youtu.be/6mOgG8w2t3M
    bulldog also upload one but he already deleted it
  • Sewpot
    2010 posts Member
    Sorry I can’t help with any data because I don’t use SEE at all in arena anymore. He a waste of my time (and lots of other things)
    Jml are still a low number in arena so of one is in my path I just go around now.
    Much easier then playing with my “investment “ and being completely disappointed.
    He is the worst character of 2020!
    What makes me happy in all this horrible outcome is that I’m 50/330 shards towards jMl.
    Once he’s done I’ll have all 4 and simply forget about SEE until dark geo is active.
  • Eweff
    400 posts Member
    Interesting predicament if everyone stops using SEE so there’s no footage of SEE to send Kyno so SEE never gets updated.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Eweff wrote: »
    Interesting predicament if everyone stops using SEE so there’s no footage of SEE to send Kyno so SEE never gets updated.

    I'm just trying to help, I am by no means the only way data and other info is getting to them about this.
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Sorry for previous post, just your advice what is required to make SEE's kit and abilities reviewed, seems meta-data from servers, statistics from swgoh, players feedbacks and videos we have a lot

    and they said they are keeping an eye on it. I'm not sure what you point is?

    honestly, they could have been waiting on even looking at any action until this update was out, as this seems it may have some effect on SEE and they wanted this to be accounted for in the examination. but i'm just speculating on that one.

    I was thinking about this too. I bet this fix was long overdue and they knew that it was going to impact the mechanics of SEE because of his ability to "link it and forget it" because he would continue to get beefy off of the siphoned protection of the linked enemies. Now that isn't the case, it is time to think about making Link a "free turn", allowing him to link two enemies and immediately take another turn since it is clearly intended for him to link at least 2 or more sets of enemies in battle. A more simple solution would be to allow SEE to ignore taunt and give link some additional benefit along with the free turn.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Eweff wrote: »
    Interesting predicament if everyone stops using SEE so there’s no footage of SEE to send Kyno so SEE never gets updated.

    Yeah that's the problem,,so few people have SEE compared to the other GLs and no one wants him now, so the videos on youtube are sparse.

    It's up to us to make videos and show I guess, i need to get some time to do it
  • RAYRAY wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Sorry for previous post, just your advice what is required to make SEE's kit and abilities reviewed, seems meta-data from servers, statistics from swgoh, players feedbacks and videos we have a lot

    and they said they are keeping an eye on it. I'm not sure what you point is?

    honestly, they could have been waiting on even looking at any action until this update was out, as this seems it may have some effect on SEE and they wanted this to be accounted for in the examination. but i'm just speculating on that one.

    I was thinking about this too. I bet this fix was long overdue and they knew that it was going to impact the mechanics of SEE because of his ability to "link it and forget it" because he would continue to get beefy off of the siphoned protection of the linked enemies. Now that isn't the case, it is time to think about making Link a "free turn", allowing him to link two enemies and immediately take another turn since it is clearly intended for him to link at least 2 or more sets of enemies in battle. A more simple solution would be to allow SEE to ignore taunt and give link some additional benefit along with the free turn.

    I saw someone say this new bug fix wasn't just about Malak but also about some interaction with 5s in the KAM mission (I can't run that mission cuz my clones really suck). Something about 5s passing along negative max protection when he died? Didn't make sense to me bc my clones suck so I don't give that mission much attention or thought :joy: Sounded like a really terrible bug though for that mission.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Sorry for previous post, just your advice what is required to make SEE's kit and abilities reviewed, seems meta-data from servers, statistics from swgoh, players feedbacks and videos we have a lot

    and they said they are keeping an eye on it. I'm not sure what you point is?

    honestly, they could have been waiting on even looking at any action until this update was out, as this seems it may have some effect on SEE and they wanted this to be accounted for in the examination. but i'm just speculating on that one.

    I was thinking about this too. I bet this fix was long overdue and they knew that it was going to impact the mechanics of SEE because of his ability to "link it and forget it" because he would continue to get beefy off of the siphoned protection of the linked enemies. Now that isn't the case, it is time to think about making Link a "free turn", allowing him to link two enemies and immediately take another turn since it is clearly intended for him to link at least 2 or more sets of enemies in battle. A more simple solution would be to allow SEE to ignore taunt and give link some additional benefit along with the free turn.

    I saw someone say this new bug fix wasn't just about Malak but also about some interaction with 5s in the KAM mission (I can't run that mission cuz my clones really suck). Something about 5s passing along negative max protection when he died? Didn't make sense to me bc my clones suck so I don't give that mission much attention or thought :joy: Sounded like a really terrible bug though for that mission.

    I am skeptical of that, as 5s would never end up in scenario where he would have no protection. This fix was very specifically to address a change a while ago, that gave any toon with no protection a huge negative number, which i believe are mostly sith, with this ability, and now anyone facing a SEE could also fall into this spot. I guess ships facing MAL too. but thats about it.

    this would in no way effect any toon that is not having max protection removed to 0.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Being told that this did nothing to the abilities of SEE.

    He didn't gain max protection before once the other toon hit 0 protection, and he doesn't' now.

    so again, not a nerf.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Esharan wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Being told that this did nothing to the abilities of SEE.

    He didn't gain max protection before once the other toon hit 0 protection, and he doesn't' now.

    so again, not a nerf.

    are they sure? Did they test it?

    If that's the case why is SEE getting nuked by Rey's ultimate damage all the sudden?

    I didn't watch all of the video of the top one in the set posted. but the first few and the one illustrated in the bottom one, dont show him just being nuked. in fact he seems quite survivable, considering the magnitude of the damage.

    if he didn't before, there is nothing to really test.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Esharan wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Esharan wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Being told that this did nothing to the abilities of SEE.

    He didn't gain max protection before once the other toon hit 0 protection, and he doesn't' now.

    so again, not a nerf.

    are they sure? Did they test it?

    If that's the case why is SEE getting nuked by Rey's ultimate damage all the sudden?

    I didn't watch all of the video of the top one in the set posted. but the first few and the one illustrated in the bottom one, dont show him just being nuked. in fact he seems quite survivable, considering the magnitude of the damage.

    if he didn't before, there is nothing to really test.

    If he didn't what before?

    He didn't gain more max protection before after they went to 0.
  • MolBettaBlu
    76 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    So the intention is for SEE to use the Linked ability, once maybe twice a battle. The ult/superkill ability once a battle.

    If my new GL toy only uses his basic ability, doesn't hold in defense, doesn't perform in raids, low banners in GAC and struggles to climb in arena, why on earth do I need to relic RG, GMT, CD, DM, DS, DK - we can discuss the imperial trooper toons and sith marauder as they are viable/good, but not toons I would have put relics. But to top it off, the toons I am supposed to use in this synergistic best squad not one of them was a requirement for him. ALL the rest of the GLs are able to use toons required as a part of the suggested teams.

    At what point are you REWORKING, not buffing this craptastic character cause at this point not only is he not worth the investment in gearing the rest of the toons, hes not worth the investment in gearing and zetaing him.
  • "A_HighCommand
    Live QA (Bugs and Issues)
    31m
    After checking with the team it was working the same way before the update, meaning SEE wasn't gaining any Protection from enemies with 0 max Protection.
    As for the issue with "Deceived" not spreading when SEE is transformed into his ultimate, we have already flagged this as a bug."

    Above is a copy paste from reddit. Looks like there is a bug with deceived. Not sure how much this bug fix will help though.
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    SithAmer wrote: »
    "A_HighCommand
    Live QA (Bugs and Issues)
    31m
    After checking with the team it was working the same way before the update, meaning SEE wasn't gaining any Protection from enemies with 0 max Protection.
    As for the issue with "Deceived" not spreading when SEE is transformed into his ultimate, we have already flagged this as a bug."

    Above is a copy paste from reddit. Looks like there is a bug with deceived. Not sure how much this bug fix will help though.

    Deceived should just auto apply to all enemies every time SEE moves.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • I don't usually post on the forums, in fact, I rarely even check the forums outside of when we get updates. With that said, I felt compelled to post about SEE because honestly I am insanely disappointed with spending a single cent to unlock this toon.
    I'll preface this by saying that SEE is not a weak toon. In fact, if I had to rank him, I would place him somewhere around JKL level. His ability to destroy jedis is impressive. With that said, that feels rather unacceptable for a toon that is not a legendary but is instead a GL. He doesn't feel like a GL. But unlike JKL, who can get slotted behind JML or Rey, I can't place SEE behind SLKR, and so I am stuck with a toon I rarely use in arena. A toon I won't use in raids. A toon who adds nothing to my DSTB roster (I was already getting 4/4 with Trium + Malak and 4/4 with DR+SE). A crap ton of resources for a toon that is not at the very top. That ignores the plethora of poor toons we were forced to farm and relic (looking at Sidious, RG, Maul, Tarkin...who at least has a cap ship...etc.). That wouldn't be a problem if SEE was at least sitting properly near the top, like the other 3 GL. Instead, it feels like I threw resources at a black hole.
    Now, on to the issues with SEE.
    1) He has very limited synergy with the other sith toons. This is a multifold issue. The main problems being that enemy toons need to take a turn/action to help charge his ult (a). But there are other issues included in this lack of synergy (b)-(c).
    a1) The SE toons focus heavily on control with the fear debuff. That means using them on the team makes charging the ult a slow, arduous process. That wouldn't be a problem if the team could do damage, but they don't hit hard enough under SEE lead (unless you're fighting JML due to the immense anti-jedi synergy). So maybe a small fix here would be adding ult charge when enemies take a turn? That would at least help get him to ult before the battle is lost.
    a2) The Trium toons (and Malak) focus heavily on crit based damage on their unique. Sion gets to HoH from this, Traya stacks damage, Malak gives fear. Unfortunately, linking an enemy means they won't crit, preventing boosts for your team. Maybe a fix here would be that link decreases crit damage instead? If critting still happened but instead did marginally more damage than a standard attack, that in itself would help the team a ton.
    a3) Deceived prevents counters which prevents enemies from using abilities which slows the ult charge down. I think this could get coupled with a2 in that you could decrease the damage done or something. But again, SEE needs all the help he can get when it comes to charging his ult and Deceived actively works to slow that charge down.
    b) The fact he prevents sith from reviving. I mean this one is self-explanatory and confusing. Why? GAS lead, SLKR unique, Rey WW, etc., already prevent revives? Why further weaken the toon by amplifying that? Sion already isn't the strongest of tanks so preventing revives makes him even more mediocre.
    c) The focus on protection recovery. Almost all sith toons have very heavy duty health based synergy. Savage has HoT, Sid and Maul gain max health, Vader heals from dots, Traya bonus protection is based on max health, DN unique, HoH revive, DR, SiM, and BSF unique, and Malak's everything. So while the protection recovery isn't necessarily bad per se, if you decreased the protection recovery and added health recovery to that ability, it would be better.

    2) His ult transformation is a wasted turn. Self-explanatory. If he took a bonus turn or auto used an ability or anything, it would be much better. In the wasted time that you transform, SLKR and co have pounded your team to dust and gained yet another ult, Rey and co have taken multiple turns and gained yet another ult. Even JML ult has more oomph to it, with the cleansing and the boosting of his team. SEE just transforms and leaves his allies (if any are even still alive) out to die and power up the enemy.

    3) His anti-jedi synergy, while incredible, leaves him in a very niche position. If I was told in the developer insight or while farming that his whole shtick was to be a JML counter, I would not have spent the resources on him. Currently, that's all his kit is. A powerhouse vs JML but lacking elsewhere. I imagine if you just halved or 1/4 the boosts he gets vs jedi's vs everyone else, that would go a long way. I don't get why sow discord doesn't passively apply to DS enemies too. That definitely leaves him in a hole. That's a lesser complaint but noticeable.

    4) Link. I've already referenced the preventing crit issues (see a2) but the other problems with link include the fact that you are forced to link a taunt (who you will likely kill shortly) and the fact the link goes away once you've killed said tank. Further, the fact that link effects don't do much vs other GL mean that SLKR and Rey are still taking your team to pound town. Again, this is something that works amazingly vs JML, but is rather worthless vs other comps. I personally think the link turns should ignore taunt and that the link effects should allow crits but decrease crit damage AND should also apply to GL.

    This is not an exhaustive list, just what I've noticed while using him. I honestly haven't used him much because of how unimpressive he is. When I unlocked SLKR I immediately felt what the toon could do. SEE by comparison has made me want to drop the game and ask for a refund. I know the CG team worked hard making this toon, it just feels like the testing wasn't there tbh. When I use him vs JML I can see what the team meant in designing him. But vs anyone else he is just so underwhelming or downright worthless. I didn't farm him so he could be the +1 to my Vader-GL counter teams . I just hope this at least helps you all pinpoint some of the problems so you can improve him.

    Thanks for reading.
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    See vs Rey is fine. Without thrawn, This turns into a 1v5 at the end. With thrawn, it’s better. This is not necessarily a video showing what is wrong with SEE. I have relatively strong mods.
    https://youtu.be/oeKvxZ16Dsk
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
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