SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • Kyno wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I would Trade SEE for any of the other 3 GLs.. I wouldn't think twice as its not even close.
    And per typical CG fashion their customer service is non-existent.

    No word from any of the community managers since this 1.7k reply thread was created almost a month ago, except for one reply stating they are "looking at things and collecting data", nearly 3 weeks ago.

    At least forum mod Kyno occasionally pops on to give his opinion, but it's been 3 days since we heard from him either.

    At this point CG either has to be either blatantly ignoring the problems with SEE or their staff must all be in the hospital with Covid or something. Not a good look either way for a game that has made $1 billion in revenue since it was launched.

    I have been told multiple times that all the information has been provided and there is no more evidence to provide, they need to make a change or a statement based on what has been provided and the player base should not have to supply anything towards this effort, so I have been checking, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for me to respond.

    Your synopsis of the situation is incorrect, but it doesnt matter what I say.

    Im trying to infere your message here, but I thinking youre saying in correlation with your previous messages that youre looking for evidence to push forward to dev team.

    That was followed up with receiving backlash that all the evidence was there. I for one am sorry youre the first wall to absorb the backlash.

    But more importantly: First, testing does seem to have been provided to a pretty good extent. Issues with his kit seem to be pointed out. Is there more testing that could be done? Sure but at what cost and for how long? Lets not be naive that a buff to any high cost character is extremely time sensative for him to maintain any modicum of relevancy before the next big thing drops. With the innumerable amount of mod compositions and team compositions, saying things like "more testing" sounds like "more money" from something that is already viewed as wallet bait.

    My final concerns are this: Does every toon require this amount of test results? I dont honestly know if characters commonly go through this? In everything Ive ever developed I felt I got what I was expecting. This is the first character to bring me to the forums.

    But the biggest concern of all: Why complete silence? Why not just state: We understand your concerns but we believe that character is WAI. Again it feels like radio silence leaves room for hope for change which encourages people to keep pumping in money.

    Players would like to hear some sort of update or decision.

    You can call it testing, but I have been asking for people to provide examples of what they are saying, and yes I guess you could call it testing, when questions of mods and team comp come up, but we have seen time and time again that new metas "are trash" and yet after more playing and no changes to the character, they are just fine.

    This is a new(ish) situation, they usually correct bugs and loopholes, but they dont necessarily change a toon once they are out there to change the power level of said toon. So this is kind of a different situation we wont normally run into.

    They have not been silent, they said they are looking at the situation. They did not meet the arbitrary timeline of "looking into it", so now we are here declaring they dont care, and other statements "not making digs at them" but making digs at them.

    And I'm sure they would love to have a decision, but that doesn't mean they are going to rush to any conclusions.

    1. I understand providing examples. Part of that comes due to frustration I think. Any time anyone has posted something it is usually met with a criticism on "Did you do it right?". Again this is totally understandable. Here is the inherent problem: I and most others just don't have the time and resources to apply every focused set, hybrid set of every mod, and most certainly all at the highest level, to confidently say yes to that. In a court room, that would be suicide to your case, and I think people know that they are between a rock and hard place of not being able to test in some sort of testing zone, or sandbox to attempt to see what if anything works. I know that's my problem at least...but it would seem the answer is to "refresh refresh refresh" or don't and by the time natural resources are obtained we'll be +4 more GL's in the future.
    2. I understand there is a natural order to things. It does bring me to considering if they launch toons without expectations of changing anything involving the power level, then they must do some internal testing? In which case is SEE working as they tested? After a lot of deliberation it is what it is. I rushed a GL. I didn't rush SLKR and literally only received him back in early Oct. His performance was so intoxicating I reached in my wallet and pounded away at the next GL to get it early and really get to enjoy it....that's just sadly not the case. He certainly has his uses, but he's pretty meh. I will likely take the SLKR approach again and will just deal with any meta shifts as best as I can. But I get my investment, let's say roughly 3500 or so, is probably a tiny drop in the barrel.
    3. I understand the comment they made, and that is all well and good. Silence was a generalization to the climate on the whole thing. They said they are looking into it. Will we be notified if their decision is WAI? I think thats the confusing or frustrating part...we just don't know what to expect. As someone who has moved to playing this frequently enough I constantly keep up with the news and invest seriously in strategy and getting my roster into a nice tight ship, this is my first experience dealing with something of this nature.
    4. From your perspective what do you think? I'm not looking for an answer that fits my agenda, I'm asking an experienced player from what you've seen, do you think this was the product that was advertised? Again not asking you so I could come back and point fingers and say you're wrong (although I can't promise other forum goers wont do it). It just seems to be a point of he's either working the way he was crafted OR we as the player base are missing something that will have a pretty significant impact on the way the toon is played/performs.

    Thanks for your patience and responses.

  • Updated GL stats 11/22/20

    SEE
    2813 @ lvl 85
    736 in arena top 100 (26%)
    466 in arena top 10 (16%)
    307 @ arena rank 1 (10%)

    JML
    6113 @ lvl 85
    4725 in arena top 100 (77%)
    3897 in arena top 10 (63%)
    2539 @ arena rank 1 (42%)


    Clearly we can't draw any conclusions here.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Looking at this situation, seems CG just procrastinate any buffs and improvements for SEE and expect that people continue farm this semi-Gl toon. Reading between the lines of moderators' comments and SEE's kit, I can say that CG intended to release a GL, which was definitely designed to counter one GL Team, so that players should realize that they need one more Gl to farm just to stay in top of Arena. But Kylo has definitely broken their plans, as he can counter JML without any problems, and there is no need to farm SEE at all. CG just keep silence, and it looks like they don't want to buff SEE, but if they announce this decision, people stop farming him at all. Even now the abyss between farmed JMLs' numbers and Sees' is deep.
  • For the record guys, from when Doja and Kyno have answered my questions about why we don't hear anything, it sounds like higher ups are the issue. If we're gonna be snippy and angry, better not to poke fun at the communication team specifically and more at CG who hired up a bigger and better communication staff and then told them they aren't allowed to tell us stuff.

    Mind you, it's a bit odd to hire a community manager that can't say anything.
  • I check every day for evidence of his viability in squad arena and ask my guild mates to do the same. He's largely absent from the upper echelons of arena. Has there ever been a release of "meta" character that is so curiously absent?
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    For the record guys, from when Doja and Kyno have answered my questions about why we don't hear anything, it sounds like higher ups are the issue. If we're gonna be snippy and angry, better not to poke fun at the communication team specifically and more at CG who hired up a bigger and better communication staff and then told them they aren't allowed to tell us stuff.

    Mind you, it's a bit odd to hire a community manager that can't say anything.

    It's also odd to make statements like this with no regard for what he has said.

    He didnt say he cant say anything, he has very clearly and now repeatedly explained that he will not say anything until its "more real" and set, as to not be misleading.

    @Shadowmaster4

    This goes to your statement nested here too.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    edited November 2020
    Kyno wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I would Trade SEE for any of the other 3 GLs.. I wouldn't think twice as its not even close.
    And per typical CG fashion their customer service is non-existent.

    No word from any of the community managers since this 1.7k reply thread was created almost a month ago, except for one reply stating they are "looking at things and collecting data", nearly 3 weeks ago.

    At least forum mod Kyno occasionally pops on to give his opinion, but it's been 3 days since we heard from him either.

    At this point CG either has to be either blatantly ignoring the problems with SEE or their staff must all be in the hospital with Covid or something. Not a good look either way for a game that has made $1 billion in revenue since it was launched.

    I have been told multiple times that all the information has been provided and there is no more evidence to provide, they need to make a change or a statement based on what has been provided and the player base should not have to supply anything towards this effort, so I have been checking, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for me to respond.

    Your synopsis of the situation is incorrect, but it doesnt matter what I say.

    Im trying to infere your message here, but I thinking youre saying in correlation with your previous messages that youre looking for evidence to push forward to dev team.

    That was followed up with receiving backlash that all the evidence was there. I for one am sorry youre the first wall to absorb the backlash.

    But more importantly: First, testing does seem to have been provided to a pretty good extent. Issues with his kit seem to be pointed out. Is there more testing that could be done? Sure but at what cost and for how long? Lets not be naive that a buff to any high cost character is extremely time sensative for him to maintain any modicum of relevancy before the next big thing drops. With the innumerable amount of mod compositions and team compositions, saying things like "more testing" sounds like "more money" from something that is already viewed as wallet bait.

    My final concerns are this: Does every toon require this amount of test results? I dont honestly know if characters commonly go through this? In everything Ive ever developed I felt I got what I was expecting. This is the first character to bring me to the forums.

    But the biggest concern of all: Why complete silence? Why not just state: We understand your concerns but we believe that character is WAI. Again it feels like radio silence leaves room for hope for change which encourages people to keep pumping in money.

    Players would like to hear some sort of update or decision.

    This is a new(ish) situation, they usually correct bugs and loopholes, but they dont necessarily change a toon once they are out there to change the power level of said toon. So this is kind of a different situation we wont normally run into.

    Not trying to nitpick you Kyno, but changing a toon is called a rework, and adding new content regularly changes toons viability. Both things happen semi-regularly. Adding Zeta's changed the viability of tons of toons and improved their power (Maul for example). They added a whole new move to Vader and made him a god. They buffed SLKR because of stuff that wasn't even a bug. They added Resistance tags to the Vets and drastically improved how they function. Adding Piett took every single Imp Trooper and skyrocketed them under a new buff they added to the game just for Piett.

    They don't have to necessarily do it by tweaking his kit specifically, but you absolutely can't say they don't change a toon once they are out. It has been happening since they added zetas. They don't have to tweak his kit, they just have the tweak the toon. Be that through a straight stat buff, a kit tweak, a new move, a zeta text update, a new mechanic or buff/debuff, or a supporting toon if they must.

    Sure we can talk about semantics, I usually refer to reworks when it's on an older toon.

    SLKR had a few touch ups, most based on the GAS cheese (a loophole, which is why I said bugs or loopholes). He did get one update that was not bug related and that was to help get him more in line with Rey.

    I dont usually call those reworks because as I have said, they are not likely to rewrite as much of his kit as is proposed, but it's all based on the evidence and numbers they see and how to best correct the situation as they see fit.

    But sure call it what you want.

    Edit to add: most of what you are mentioning, I consider different and called a rework because it is planned and added because they want to make a change, and is mostly not based on player feedback.

    That is different then someone not performing how they want them to, and making changes to bring them in line with the intentions.
    Post edited by Kyno on
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I would Trade SEE for any of the other 3 GLs.. I wouldn't think twice as its not even close.
    And per typical CG fashion their customer service is non-existent.

    No word from any of the community managers since this 1.7k reply thread was created almost a month ago, except for one reply stating they are "looking at things and collecting data", nearly 3 weeks ago.

    At least forum mod Kyno occasionally pops on to give his opinion, but it's been 3 days since we heard from him either.

    At this point CG either has to be either blatantly ignoring the problems with SEE or their staff must all be in the hospital with Covid or something. Not a good look either way for a game that has made $1 billion in revenue since it was launched.

    I have been told multiple times that all the information has been provided and there is no more evidence to provide, they need to make a change or a statement based on what has been provided and the player base should not have to supply anything towards this effort, so I have been checking, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for me to respond.

    Your synopsis of the situation is incorrect, but it doesnt matter what I say.

    Im trying to infere your message here, but I thinking youre saying in correlation with your previous messages that youre looking for evidence to push forward to dev team.

    That was followed up with receiving backlash that all the evidence was there. I for one am sorry youre the first wall to absorb the backlash.

    But more importantly: First, testing does seem to have been provided to a pretty good extent. Issues with his kit seem to be pointed out. Is there more testing that could be done? Sure but at what cost and for how long? Lets not be naive that a buff to any high cost character is extremely time sensative for him to maintain any modicum of relevancy before the next big thing drops. With the innumerable amount of mod compositions and team compositions, saying things like "more testing" sounds like "more money" from something that is already viewed as wallet bait.

    My final concerns are this: Does every toon require this amount of test results? I dont honestly know if characters commonly go through this? In everything Ive ever developed I felt I got what I was expecting. This is the first character to bring me to the forums.

    But the biggest concern of all: Why complete silence? Why not just state: We understand your concerns but we believe that character is WAI. Again it feels like radio silence leaves room for hope for change which encourages people to keep pumping in money.

    Players would like to hear some sort of update or decision.

    This is a new(ish) situation, they usually correct bugs and loopholes, but they dont necessarily change a toon once they are out there to change the power level of said toon. So this is kind of a different situation we wont normally run into.

    Not trying to nitpick you Kyno, but changing a toon is called a rework, and adding new content regularly changes toons viability. Both things happen semi-regularly. Adding Zeta's changed the viability of tons of toons and improved their power (Maul for example). They added a whole new move to Vader and made him a god. They buffed SLKR because of stuff that wasn't even a bug. They added Resistance tags to the Vets and drastically improved how they function. Adding Piett took every single Imp Trooper and skyrocketed them under a new buff they added to the game just for Piett.

    They don't have to necessarily do it by tweaking his kit specifically, but you absolutely can't say they don't change a toon once they are out. It has been happening since they added zetas. They don't have to tweak his kit, they just have the tweak the toon. Be that through a straight stat buff, a kit tweak, a new move, a zeta text update, a new mechanic or buff/debuff, or a supporting toon if they must.

    Sure we can talk about semantics, I usually refer to reworks when it's on an older toon.

    SLKR had a few touch ups, most based on the GAS cheese (a loophole, which is why I said bugs or loopholes). He did get one update that was not bug related and that was to help get him more in line with Rey.

    I dont usually call those reworks because as I have said, they are not likely to rewrite as much of his kit as is proposed, but it's all based on the evidence and numbers they see and how to best correct the situation as they see fit.

    But sure call it what you want.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I would Trade SEE for any of the other 3 GLs.. I wouldn't think twice as its not even close.
    And per typical CG fashion their customer service is non-existent.

    No word from any of the community managers since this 1.7k reply thread was created almost a month ago, except for one reply stating they are "looking at things and collecting data", nearly 3 weeks ago.

    At least forum mod Kyno occasionally pops on to give his opinion, but it's been 3 days since we heard from him either.

    At this point CG either has to be either blatantly ignoring the problems with SEE or their staff must all be in the hospital with Covid or something. Not a good look either way for a game that has made $1 billion in revenue since it was launched.

    I have been told multiple times that all the information has been provided and there is no more evidence to provide, they need to make a change or a statement based on what has been provided and the player base should not have to supply anything towards this effort, so I have been checking, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for me to respond.

    Your synopsis of the situation is incorrect, but it doesnt matter what I say.

    Im trying to infere your message here, but I thinking youre saying in correlation with your previous messages that youre looking for evidence to push forward to dev team.

    That was followed up with receiving backlash that all the evidence was there. I for one am sorry youre the first wall to absorb the backlash.

    But more importantly: First, testing does seem to have been provided to a pretty good extent. Issues with his kit seem to be pointed out. Is there more testing that could be done? Sure but at what cost and for how long? Lets not be naive that a buff to any high cost character is extremely time sensative for him to maintain any modicum of relevancy before the next big thing drops. With the innumerable amount of mod compositions and team compositions, saying things like "more testing" sounds like "more money" from something that is already viewed as wallet bait.

    My final concerns are this: Does every toon require this amount of test results? I dont honestly know if characters commonly go through this? In everything Ive ever developed I felt I got what I was expecting. This is the first character to bring me to the forums.

    But the biggest concern of all: Why complete silence? Why not just state: We understand your concerns but we believe that character is WAI. Again it feels like radio silence leaves room for hope for change which encourages people to keep pumping in money.

    Players would like to hear some sort of update or decision.

    This is a new(ish) situation, they usually correct bugs and loopholes, but they dont necessarily change a toon once they are out there to change the power level of said toon. So this is kind of a different situation we wont normally run into.

    Not trying to nitpick you Kyno, but changing a toon is called a rework, and adding new content regularly changes toons viability. Both things happen semi-regularly. Adding Zeta's changed the viability of tons of toons and improved their power (Maul for example). They added a whole new move to Vader and made him a god. They buffed SLKR because of stuff that wasn't even a bug. They added Resistance tags to the Vets and drastically improved how they function. Adding Piett took every single Imp Trooper and skyrocketed them under a new buff they added to the game just for Piett.

    They don't have to necessarily do it by tweaking his kit specifically, but you absolutely can't say they don't change a toon once they are out. It has been happening since they added zetas. They don't have to tweak his kit, they just have the tweak the toon. Be that through a straight stat buff, a kit tweak, a new move, a zeta text update, a new mechanic or buff/debuff, or a supporting toon if they must.

    Sure we can talk about semantics, I usually refer to reworks when it's on an older toon.

    SLKR had a few touch ups, most based on the GAS cheese (a loophole, which is why I said bugs or loopholes). He did get one update that was not bug related and that was to help get him more in line with Rey.

    I dont usually call those reworks because as I have said, they are not likely to rewrite as much of his kit as is proposed, but it's all based on the evidence and numbers they see and how to best correct the situation as they see fit.

    But sure call it what you want.
    Look, you mentioned Gas vs SLKR situation that caused some tweaks for SLKR, but Rey and SLKR soloing SEE you find normal. Great CG, just go on, and players will forget how SEE looks like. Repution around Tag GL totally destroyed, that bring some bad expereince for many players, if CG isn't going to raise SEE at least to old GLs' level, next future toons won't be so good and fast farmed as it was before. Their silence means that SEE works as they intended, but players don't like this idea AT ALL! and they just don't actively farm SEE.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    edited November 2020
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I would Trade SEE for any of the other 3 GLs.. I wouldn't think twice as its not even close.
    And per typical CG fashion their customer service is non-existent.

    No word from any of the community managers since this 1.7k reply thread was created almost a month ago, except for one reply stating they are "looking at things and collecting data", nearly 3 weeks ago.

    At least forum mod Kyno occasionally pops on to give his opinion, but it's been 3 days since we heard from him either.

    At this point CG either has to be either blatantly ignoring the problems with SEE or their staff must all be in the hospital with Covid or something. Not a good look either way for a game that has made $1 billion in revenue since it was launched.

    I have been told multiple times that all the information has been provided and there is no more evidence to provide, they need to make a change or a statement based on what has been provided and the player base should not have to supply anything towards this effort, so I have been checking, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for me to respond.

    Your synopsis of the situation is incorrect, but it doesnt matter what I say.

    Im trying to infere your message here, but I thinking youre saying in correlation with your previous messages that youre looking for evidence to push forward to dev team.

    That was followed up with receiving backlash that all the evidence was there. I for one am sorry youre the first wall to absorb the backlash.

    But more importantly: First, testing does seem to have been provided to a pretty good extent. Issues with his kit seem to be pointed out. Is there more testing that could be done? Sure but at what cost and for how long? Lets not be naive that a buff to any high cost character is extremely time sensative for him to maintain any modicum of relevancy before the next big thing drops. With the innumerable amount of mod compositions and team compositions, saying things like "more testing" sounds like "more money" from something that is already viewed as wallet bait.

    My final concerns are this: Does every toon require this amount of test results? I dont honestly know if characters commonly go through this? In everything Ive ever developed I felt I got what I was expecting. This is the first character to bring me to the forums.

    But the biggest concern of all: Why complete silence? Why not just state: We understand your concerns but we believe that character is WAI. Again it feels like radio silence leaves room for hope for change which encourages people to keep pumping in money.

    Players would like to hear some sort of update or decision.

    This is a new(ish) situation, they usually correct bugs and loopholes, but they dont necessarily change a toon once they are out there to change the power level of said toon. So this is kind of a different situation we wont normally run into.

    Not trying to nitpick you Kyno, but changing a toon is called a rework, and adding new content regularly changes toons viability. Both things happen semi-regularly. Adding Zeta's changed the viability of tons of toons and improved their power (Maul for example). They added a whole new move to Vader and made him a god. They buffed SLKR because of stuff that wasn't even a bug. They added Resistance tags to the Vets and drastically improved how they function. Adding Piett took every single Imp Trooper and skyrocketed them under a new buff they added to the game just for Piett.

    They don't have to necessarily do it by tweaking his kit specifically, but you absolutely can't say they don't change a toon once they are out. It has been happening since they added zetas. They don't have to tweak his kit, they just have the tweak the toon. Be that through a straight stat buff, a kit tweak, a new move, a zeta text update, a new mechanic or buff/debuff, or a supporting toon if they must.

    Sure we can talk about semantics, I usually refer to reworks when it's on an older toon.

    SLKR had a few touch ups, most based on the GAS cheese (a loophole, which is why I said bugs or loopholes). He did get one update that was not bug related and that was to help get him more in line with Rey.

    I dont usually call those reworks because as I have said, they are not likely to rewrite as much of his kit as is proposed, but it's all based on the evidence and numbers they see and how to best correct the situation as they see fit.

    But sure call it what you want.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I would Trade SEE for any of the other 3 GLs.. I wouldn't think twice as its not even close.
    And per typical CG fashion their customer service is non-existent.

    No word from any of the community managers since this 1.7k reply thread was created almost a month ago, except for one reply stating they are "looking at things and collecting data", nearly 3 weeks ago.

    At least forum mod Kyno occasionally pops on to give his opinion, but it's been 3 days since we heard from him either.

    At this point CG either has to be either blatantly ignoring the problems with SEE or their staff must all be in the hospital with Covid or something. Not a good look either way for a game that has made $1 billion in revenue since it was launched.

    I have been told multiple times that all the information has been provided and there is no more evidence to provide, they need to make a change or a statement based on what has been provided and the player base should not have to supply anything towards this effort, so I have been checking, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for me to respond.

    Your synopsis of the situation is incorrect, but it doesnt matter what I say.

    Im trying to infere your message here, but I thinking youre saying in correlation with your previous messages that youre looking for evidence to push forward to dev team.

    That was followed up with receiving backlash that all the evidence was there. I for one am sorry youre the first wall to absorb the backlash.

    But more importantly: First, testing does seem to have been provided to a pretty good extent. Issues with his kit seem to be pointed out. Is there more testing that could be done? Sure but at what cost and for how long? Lets not be naive that a buff to any high cost character is extremely time sensative for him to maintain any modicum of relevancy before the next big thing drops. With the innumerable amount of mod compositions and team compositions, saying things like "more testing" sounds like "more money" from something that is already viewed as wallet bait.

    My final concerns are this: Does every toon require this amount of test results? I dont honestly know if characters commonly go through this? In everything Ive ever developed I felt I got what I was expecting. This is the first character to bring me to the forums.

    But the biggest concern of all: Why complete silence? Why not just state: We understand your concerns but we believe that character is WAI. Again it feels like radio silence leaves room for hope for change which encourages people to keep pumping in money.

    Players would like to hear some sort of update or decision.

    This is a new(ish) situation, they usually correct bugs and loopholes, but they dont necessarily change a toon once they are out there to change the power level of said toon. So this is kind of a different situation we wont normally run into.

    Not trying to nitpick you Kyno, but changing a toon is called a rework, and adding new content regularly changes toons viability. Both things happen semi-regularly. Adding Zeta's changed the viability of tons of toons and improved their power (Maul for example). They added a whole new move to Vader and made him a god. They buffed SLKR because of stuff that wasn't even a bug. They added Resistance tags to the Vets and drastically improved how they function. Adding Piett took every single Imp Trooper and skyrocketed them under a new buff they added to the game just for Piett.

    They don't have to necessarily do it by tweaking his kit specifically, but you absolutely can't say they don't change a toon once they are out. It has been happening since they added zetas. They don't have to tweak his kit, they just have the tweak the toon. Be that through a straight stat buff, a kit tweak, a new move, a zeta text update, a new mechanic or buff/debuff, or a supporting toon if they must.

    Sure we can talk about semantics, I usually refer to reworks when it's on an older toon.

    SLKR had a few touch ups, most based on the GAS cheese (a loophole, which is why I said bugs or loopholes). He did get one update that was not bug related and that was to help get him more in line with Rey.

    I dont usually call those reworks because as I have said, they are not likely to rewrite as much of his kit as is proposed, but it's all based on the evidence and numbers they see and how to best correct the situation as they see fit.

    But sure call it what you want.
    Look, you mentioned Gas vs SLKR situation that caused some tweaks for SLKR, but Rey and SLKR soloing SEE you find normal. Great CG, just go on, and players will forget how SEE looks like. Repution around Tag GL totally destroyed, that bring some bad expereince for many players, if CG isn't going to raise SEE at least to old GLs' level, next future toons won't be so good and fast farmed as it was before. Their silence means that SEE works as they intended, but players don't like this idea AT ALL! and they just don't actively farm SEE.

    Please quote me where I said its normal? I did say initially, it was not the worst thing because it still required a GL, or something to that effect.

    They have not been silent, so if that's what their silence means, then we are safe because they have not been silent.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I would Trade SEE for any of the other 3 GLs.. I wouldn't think twice as its not even close.
    And per typical CG fashion their customer service is non-existent.

    No word from any of the community managers since this 1.7k reply thread was created almost a month ago, except for one reply stating they are "looking at things and collecting data", nearly 3 weeks ago.

    At least forum mod Kyno occasionally pops on to give his opinion, but it's been 3 days since we heard from him either.

    At this point CG either has to be either blatantly ignoring the problems with SEE or their staff must all be in the hospital with Covid or something. Not a good look either way for a game that has made $1 billion in revenue since it was launched.

    I have been told multiple times that all the information has been provided and there is no more evidence to provide, they need to make a change or a statement based on what has been provided and the player base should not have to supply anything towards this effort, so I have been checking, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for me to respond.

    Your synopsis of the situation is incorrect, but it doesnt matter what I say.

    Im trying to infere your message here, but I thinking youre saying in correlation with your previous messages that youre looking for evidence to push forward to dev team.

    That was followed up with receiving backlash that all the evidence was there. I for one am sorry youre the first wall to absorb the backlash.

    But more importantly: First, testing does seem to have been provided to a pretty good extent. Issues with his kit seem to be pointed out. Is there more testing that could be done? Sure but at what cost and for how long? Lets not be naive that a buff to any high cost character is extremely time sensative for him to maintain any modicum of relevancy before the next big thing drops. With the innumerable amount of mod compositions and team compositions, saying things like "more testing" sounds like "more money" from something that is already viewed as wallet bait.

    My final concerns are this: Does every toon require this amount of test results? I dont honestly know if characters commonly go through this? In everything Ive ever developed I felt I got what I was expecting. This is the first character to bring me to the forums.

    But the biggest concern of all: Why complete silence? Why not just state: We understand your concerns but we believe that character is WAI. Again it feels like radio silence leaves room for hope for change which encourages people to keep pumping in money.

    Players would like to hear some sort of update or decision.

    This is a new(ish) situation, they usually correct bugs and loopholes, but they dont necessarily change a toon once they are out there to change the power level of said toon. So this is kind of a different situation we wont normally run into.

    Not trying to nitpick you Kyno, but changing a toon is called a rework, and adding new content regularly changes toons viability. Both things happen semi-regularly. Adding Zeta's changed the viability of tons of toons and improved their power (Maul for example). They added a whole new move to Vader and made him a god. They buffed SLKR because of stuff that wasn't even a bug. They added Resistance tags to the Vets and drastically improved how they function. Adding Piett took every single Imp Trooper and skyrocketed them under a new buff they added to the game just for Piett.

    They don't have to necessarily do it by tweaking his kit specifically, but you absolutely can't say they don't change a toon once they are out. It has been happening since they added zetas. They don't have to tweak his kit, they just have the tweak the toon. Be that through a straight stat buff, a kit tweak, a new move, a zeta text update, a new mechanic or buff/debuff, or a supporting toon if they must.

    Sure we can talk about semantics, I usually refer to reworks when it's on an older toon.

    SLKR had a few touch ups, most based on the GAS cheese (a loophole, which is why I said bugs or loopholes). He did get one update that was not bug related and that was to help get him more in line with Rey.

    I dont usually call those reworks because as I have said, they are not likely to rewrite as much of his kit as is proposed, but it's all based on the evidence and numbers they see and how to best correct the situation as they see fit.

    But sure call it what you want.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I would Trade SEE for any of the other 3 GLs.. I wouldn't think twice as its not even close.
    And per typical CG fashion their customer service is non-existent.

    No word from any of the community managers since this 1.7k reply thread was created almost a month ago, except for one reply stating they are "looking at things and collecting data", nearly 3 weeks ago.

    At least forum mod Kyno occasionally pops on to give his opinion, but it's been 3 days since we heard from him either.

    At this point CG either has to be either blatantly ignoring the problems with SEE or their staff must all be in the hospital with Covid or something. Not a good look either way for a game that has made $1 billion in revenue since it was launched.

    I have been told multiple times that all the information has been provided and there is no more evidence to provide, they need to make a change or a statement based on what has been provided and the player base should not have to supply anything towards this effort, so I have been checking, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for me to respond.

    Your synopsis of the situation is incorrect, but it doesnt matter what I say.

    Im trying to infere your message here, but I thinking youre saying in correlation with your previous messages that youre looking for evidence to push forward to dev team.

    That was followed up with receiving backlash that all the evidence was there. I for one am sorry youre the first wall to absorb the backlash.

    But more importantly: First, testing does seem to have been provided to a pretty good extent. Issues with his kit seem to be pointed out. Is there more testing that could be done? Sure but at what cost and for how long? Lets not be naive that a buff to any high cost character is extremely time sensative for him to maintain any modicum of relevancy before the next big thing drops. With the innumerable amount of mod compositions and team compositions, saying things like "more testing" sounds like "more money" from something that is already viewed as wallet bait.

    My final concerns are this: Does every toon require this amount of test results? I dont honestly know if characters commonly go through this? In everything Ive ever developed I felt I got what I was expecting. This is the first character to bring me to the forums.

    But the biggest concern of all: Why complete silence? Why not just state: We understand your concerns but we believe that character is WAI. Again it feels like radio silence leaves room for hope for change which encourages people to keep pumping in money.

    Players would like to hear some sort of update or decision.

    This is a new(ish) situation, they usually correct bugs and loopholes, but they dont necessarily change a toon once they are out there to change the power level of said toon. So this is kind of a different situation we wont normally run into.

    Not trying to nitpick you Kyno, but changing a toon is called a rework, and adding new content regularly changes toons viability. Both things happen semi-regularly. Adding Zeta's changed the viability of tons of toons and improved their power (Maul for example). They added a whole new move to Vader and made him a god. They buffed SLKR because of stuff that wasn't even a bug. They added Resistance tags to the Vets and drastically improved how they function. Adding Piett took every single Imp Trooper and skyrocketed them under a new buff they added to the game just for Piett.

    They don't have to necessarily do it by tweaking his kit specifically, but you absolutely can't say they don't change a toon once they are out. It has been happening since they added zetas. They don't have to tweak his kit, they just have the tweak the toon. Be that through a straight stat buff, a kit tweak, a new move, a zeta text update, a new mechanic or buff/debuff, or a supporting toon if they must.

    Sure we can talk about semantics, I usually refer to reworks when it's on an older toon.

    SLKR had a few touch ups, most based on the GAS cheese (a loophole, which is why I said bugs or loopholes). He did get one update that was not bug related and that was to help get him more in line with Rey.

    I dont usually call those reworks because as I have said, they are not likely to rewrite as much of his kit as is proposed, but it's all based on the evidence and numbers they see and how to best correct the situation as they see fit.

    But sure call it what you want.
    Look, you mentioned Gas vs SLKR situation that caused some tweaks for SLKR, but Rey and SLKR soloing SEE you find normal. Great CG, just go on, and players will forget how SEE looks like. Repution around Tag GL totally destroyed, that bring some bad expereince for many players, if CG isn't going to raise SEE at least to old GLs' level, next future toons won't be so good and fast farmed as it was before. Their silence means that SEE works as they intended, but players don't like this idea AT ALL! and they just don't actively farm SEE.

    Please quote me where I said its normal? I did say initially, it was not the worst thing because it still required a GL, or something to that effect.

    They have not been silent, so if that's what their silence means, then we are safe because they have not been silent.

    Talking about silence, I imply the situation around the release of REY and SLKR, I looked through dev updates and news and saw some comments like "we increase damage for Rey as she doesn't work as intended ", "we improved GLs as cheaper and UNDERSIZED squads shouldn't counter GLs" etc, Seems it was in 5-6 weeks after release of REY and SLKR.
    What we have now, one announcement that they keep an eye and that's all for a 3 weeks. Most players already undestand CG's intentions and don't like them, the question is if we receive a SEE that deserves status of Galactic Legend, or for Players it will be enough to invest resouces in OLD GLs as they are far much better than new, I don't find for example Protection restore smth cool and good as many other teams can do the same, and as I have said before if CG don't want buff SEE, please remove 5-7 toons from prerequisite, and somehow reward players who have already farmed
  • It's not really important, but imo most of my suggestions fall into the touch-up category. And Kyno is right about this being is a weird situation. But anyway, now that we've determined how many ways SEE is poop, I have a question:

    How in tarnation does SEE work in mirrors? I saw a couple things that looked like bugs early on, but basically, there's a major logical flaw in SEE's kit: if your SEE is deceived and there is only an enemy SEE + 1 Sith:
    1. Unraveled Destiny forces you to apply Linked to the enemy Sith
    2. You can't target a Linked character during the bonus turn
    3. You can't target SEE during the bonus turn

    I've seen people say they just wind up still targeting the other Sith and applying Linked twice, and now hearing that, instead, Unraveled Destiny is disabled. This would also be the case for MM, who basically has the Deceived mechanic but it's up against everyone 24/7. I guess the underlying logic is that if you can only target one enemy (and therefore can only target one enemy with a Linked-applying ability), you can't use Unraveled Destiny.

    So it sounds like using SEE vs SEE, especially if your squad is stronger, would probably be a bad idea.
  • @Kyno Talking into account the worth of SEE in comparison with other 3 Gls, defitenly he doesn't deserve to be farmed 15 toons for him. He performes twice worse than other 3 GLs, that means Half of toons from prerequisites should be removed. It's absolultely balanced view of his performance and his costs regarding resources. But if CG think that 15 toons are good for his prerequisites, PLEASE GIVE US A GL that WORTH IT.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I would Trade SEE for any of the other 3 GLs.. I wouldn't think twice as its not even close.
    And per typical CG fashion their customer service is non-existent.

    No word from any of the community managers since this 1.7k reply thread was created almost a month ago, except for one reply stating they are "looking at things and collecting data", nearly 3 weeks ago.

    At least forum mod Kyno occasionally pops on to give his opinion, but it's been 3 days since we heard from him either.

    At this point CG either has to be either blatantly ignoring the problems with SEE or their staff must all be in the hospital with Covid or something. Not a good look either way for a game that has made $1 billion in revenue since it was launched.

    I have been told multiple times that all the information has been provided and there is no more evidence to provide, they need to make a change or a statement based on what has been provided and the player base should not have to supply anything towards this effort, so I have been checking, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for me to respond.

    Your synopsis of the situation is incorrect, but it doesnt matter what I say.

    Im trying to infere your message here, but I thinking youre saying in correlation with your previous messages that youre looking for evidence to push forward to dev team.

    That was followed up with receiving backlash that all the evidence was there. I for one am sorry youre the first wall to absorb the backlash.

    But more importantly: First, testing does seem to have been provided to a pretty good extent. Issues with his kit seem to be pointed out. Is there more testing that could be done? Sure but at what cost and for how long? Lets not be naive that a buff to any high cost character is extremely time sensative for him to maintain any modicum of relevancy before the next big thing drops. With the innumerable amount of mod compositions and team compositions, saying things like "more testing" sounds like "more money" from something that is already viewed as wallet bait.

    My final concerns are this: Does every toon require this amount of test results? I dont honestly know if characters commonly go through this? In everything Ive ever developed I felt I got what I was expecting. This is the first character to bring me to the forums.

    But the biggest concern of all: Why complete silence? Why not just state: We understand your concerns but we believe that character is WAI. Again it feels like radio silence leaves room for hope for change which encourages people to keep pumping in money.

    Players would like to hear some sort of update or decision.

    This is a new(ish) situation, they usually correct bugs and loopholes, but they dont necessarily change a toon once they are out there to change the power level of said toon. So this is kind of a different situation we wont normally run into.

    Not trying to nitpick you Kyno, but changing a toon is called a rework, and adding new content regularly changes toons viability. Both things happen semi-regularly. Adding Zeta's changed the viability of tons of toons and improved their power (Maul for example). They added a whole new move to Vader and made him a god. They buffed SLKR because of stuff that wasn't even a bug. They added Resistance tags to the Vets and drastically improved how they function. Adding Piett took every single Imp Trooper and skyrocketed them under a new buff they added to the game just for Piett.

    They don't have to necessarily do it by tweaking his kit specifically, but you absolutely can't say they don't change a toon once they are out. It has been happening since they added zetas. They don't have to tweak his kit, they just have the tweak the toon. Be that through a straight stat buff, a kit tweak, a new move, a zeta text update, a new mechanic or buff/debuff, or a supporting toon if they must.

    Sure we can talk about semantics, I usually refer to reworks when it's on an older toon.

    SLKR had a few touch ups, most based on the GAS cheese (a loophole, which is why I said bugs or loopholes). He did get one update that was not bug related and that was to help get him more in line with Rey.

    I dont usually call those reworks because as I have said, they are not likely to rewrite as much of his kit as is proposed, but it's all based on the evidence and numbers they see and how to best correct the situation as they see fit.

    But sure call it what you want.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I would Trade SEE for any of the other 3 GLs.. I wouldn't think twice as its not even close.
    And per typical CG fashion their customer service is non-existent.

    No word from any of the community managers since this 1.7k reply thread was created almost a month ago, except for one reply stating they are "looking at things and collecting data", nearly 3 weeks ago.

    At least forum mod Kyno occasionally pops on to give his opinion, but it's been 3 days since we heard from him either.

    At this point CG either has to be either blatantly ignoring the problems with SEE or their staff must all be in the hospital with Covid or something. Not a good look either way for a game that has made $1 billion in revenue since it was launched.

    I have been told multiple times that all the information has been provided and there is no more evidence to provide, they need to make a change or a statement based on what has been provided and the player base should not have to supply anything towards this effort, so I have been checking, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for me to respond.

    Your synopsis of the situation is incorrect, but it doesnt matter what I say.

    Im trying to infere your message here, but I thinking youre saying in correlation with your previous messages that youre looking for evidence to push forward to dev team.

    That was followed up with receiving backlash that all the evidence was there. I for one am sorry youre the first wall to absorb the backlash.

    But more importantly: First, testing does seem to have been provided to a pretty good extent. Issues with his kit seem to be pointed out. Is there more testing that could be done? Sure but at what cost and for how long? Lets not be naive that a buff to any high cost character is extremely time sensative for him to maintain any modicum of relevancy before the next big thing drops. With the innumerable amount of mod compositions and team compositions, saying things like "more testing" sounds like "more money" from something that is already viewed as wallet bait.

    My final concerns are this: Does every toon require this amount of test results? I dont honestly know if characters commonly go through this? In everything Ive ever developed I felt I got what I was expecting. This is the first character to bring me to the forums.

    But the biggest concern of all: Why complete silence? Why not just state: We understand your concerns but we believe that character is WAI. Again it feels like radio silence leaves room for hope for change which encourages people to keep pumping in money.

    Players would like to hear some sort of update or decision.

    This is a new(ish) situation, they usually correct bugs and loopholes, but they dont necessarily change a toon once they are out there to change the power level of said toon. So this is kind of a different situation we wont normally run into.

    Not trying to nitpick you Kyno, but changing a toon is called a rework, and adding new content regularly changes toons viability. Both things happen semi-regularly. Adding Zeta's changed the viability of tons of toons and improved their power (Maul for example). They added a whole new move to Vader and made him a god. They buffed SLKR because of stuff that wasn't even a bug. They added Resistance tags to the Vets and drastically improved how they function. Adding Piett took every single Imp Trooper and skyrocketed them under a new buff they added to the game just for Piett.

    They don't have to necessarily do it by tweaking his kit specifically, but you absolutely can't say they don't change a toon once they are out. It has been happening since they added zetas. They don't have to tweak his kit, they just have the tweak the toon. Be that through a straight stat buff, a kit tweak, a new move, a zeta text update, a new mechanic or buff/debuff, or a supporting toon if they must.

    Sure we can talk about semantics, I usually refer to reworks when it's on an older toon.

    SLKR had a few touch ups, most based on the GAS cheese (a loophole, which is why I said bugs or loopholes). He did get one update that was not bug related and that was to help get him more in line with Rey.

    I dont usually call those reworks because as I have said, they are not likely to rewrite as much of his kit as is proposed, but it's all based on the evidence and numbers they see and how to best correct the situation as they see fit.

    But sure call it what you want.
    Look, you mentioned Gas vs SLKR situation that caused some tweaks for SLKR, but Rey and SLKR soloing SEE you find normal. Great CG, just go on, and players will forget how SEE looks like. Repution around Tag GL totally destroyed, that bring some bad expereince for many players, if CG isn't going to raise SEE at least to old GLs' level, next future toons won't be so good and fast farmed as it was before. Their silence means that SEE works as they intended, but players don't like this idea AT ALL! and they just don't actively farm SEE.

    Please quote me where I said its normal? I did say initially, it was not the worst thing because it still required a GL, or something to that effect.

    They have not been silent, so if that's what their silence means, then we are safe because they have not been silent.

    Talking about silence, I imply the situation around the release of REY and SLKR, I looked through dev updates and news and saw some comments like "we increase damage for Rey as she doesn't work as intended ", "we improved GLs as cheaper and UNDERSIZED squads shouldn't counter GLs" etc, Seems it was in 5-6 weeks after release of REY and SLKR.
    What we have now, one announcement that they keep an eye and that's all for a 3 weeks. Most players already undestand CG's intentions and don't like them, the question is if we receive a SEE that deserves status of Galactic Legend, or for Players it will be enough to invest resouces in OLD GLs as they are far much better than new, I don't find for example Protection restore smth cool and good as many other teams can do the same, and as I have said before if CG don't want buff SEE, please remove 5-7 toons from prerequisite, and somehow reward players who have already farmed

    When did they say they didnt want to buff him? Again, setting arbitrary timelines and acting like they have some meaning in the process doesnt really mean anything. There is more going on right now then when the older GLs were released, it's possible that is extending the timeline a bit.

    Yes they made statements when they knew what changes they were going to make. They have not come to any conclusion on SEE, so they have not made a statement. Yes we are on the outside edge of the timeframe, but we know they are looking at it, because they said they are.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Talking into account the worth of SEE in comparison with other 3 Gls, defitenly he doesn't deserve to be farmed 15 toons for him. He performes twice worse than other 3 GLs, that means Half of toons from prerequisites should be removed. It's absolultely balanced view of his performance and his costs regarding resources. But if CG think that 15 toons are good for his prerequisites, PLEASE GIVE US A GL that WORTH IT.

    I'm not sure why you keep pinging me and saying things like this. At no point have I said he is ok in his current state.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Talking into account the worth of SEE in comparison with other 3 Gls, defitenly he doesn't deserve to be farmed 15 toons for him. He performes twice worse than other 3 GLs, that means Half of toons from prerequisites should be removed. It's absolultely balanced view of his performance and his costs regarding resources. But if CG think that 15 toons are good for his prerequisites, PLEASE GIVE US A GL that WORTH IT.

    I'm not sure why you keep pinging me and saying things like this. At no point have I said he is ok in his current state.

    @Kyno this is close to the statement we would like to hear from CG. IE SEE is not okay in his current state. I dont need to hear when it will be fixed, just that they are working on a fix.

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    edited November 2020
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Talking into account the worth of SEE in comparison with other 3 Gls, defitenly he doesn't deserve to be farmed 15 toons for him. He performes twice worse than other 3 GLs, that means Half of toons from prerequisites should be removed. It's absolultely balanced view of his performance and his costs regarding resources. But if CG think that 15 toons are good for his prerequisites, PLEASE GIVE US A GL that WORTH IT.

    I'm not sure why you keep pinging me and saying things like this. At no point have I said he is ok in his current state.

    Kyno this is close to the statement we would like to hear from CG. IE SEE is not okay in his current state. I dont need to hear when it will be fixed, just that they are working on a fix.

    And as Doja has stated: when he has a message like that (or not) he will share it. He will not make that statement based on anything but fact.

    Also them looking into it indicates something is not exactly where they want it.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Talking into account the worth of SEE in comparison with other 3 Gls, defitenly he doesn't deserve to be farmed 15 toons for him. He performes twice worse than other 3 GLs, that means Half of toons from prerequisites should be removed. It's absolultely balanced view of his performance and his costs regarding resources. But if CG think that 15 toons are good for his prerequisites, PLEASE GIVE US A GL that WORTH IT.

    I'm not sure why you keep pinging me and saying things like this. At no point have I said he is ok in his current state.

    Kyno this is close to the statement we would like to hear from CG. IE SEE is not okay in his current state. I dont need to hear when it will be fixed, just that they are working on a fix.

    And as Doja has stated: when he has a message like that (or not) he will share it. He will not make that statement based on anything but fact.

    Also them looking into it indicates something is not exactly where they want it.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Talking into account the worth of SEE in comparison with other 3 Gls, defitenly he doesn't deserve to be farmed 15 toons for him. He performes twice worse than other 3 GLs, that means Half of toons from prerequisites should be removed. It's absolultely balanced view of his performance and his costs regarding resources. But if CG think that 15 toons are good for his prerequisites, PLEASE GIVE US A GL that WORTH IT.

    I'm not sure why you keep pinging me and saying things like this. At no point have I said he is ok in his current state.

    Kyno this is close to the statement we would like to hear from CG. IE SEE is not okay in his current state. I dont need to hear when it will be fixed, just that they are working on a fix.

    And as Doja has stated: when he has a message like that (or not) he will share it. He will not make that statement based on anything but fact.

    Also them looking into it indicates something is not exactly where they want it.

    Yeh, they have found time to apply some minor fixes to SEE according to latest updates, that means that they keep an eye on him, but overall no buffs and improvement are announced that make me think they are don't really intended to do it, Although they see that SEE is invalid for most events and challenges of the game, only some minor tweaks are still done.
  • Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Talking into account the worth of SEE in comparison with other 3 Gls, defitenly he doesn't deserve to be farmed 15 toons for him. He performes twice worse than other 3 GLs, that means Half of toons from prerequisites should be removed. It's absolultely balanced view of his performance and his costs regarding resources. But if CG think that 15 toons are good for his prerequisites, PLEASE GIVE US A GL that WORTH IT.

    I'm not sure why you keep pinging me and saying things like this. At no point have I said he is ok in his current state.

    Kyno this is close to the statement we would like to hear from CG. IE SEE is not okay in his current state. I dont need to hear when it will be fixed, just that they are working on a fix.

    And as Doja has stated: when he has a message like that (or not) he will share it. He will not make that statement based on anything but fact.

    Also them looking into it indicates something is not exactly where they want it.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Talking into account the worth of SEE in comparison with other 3 Gls, defitenly he doesn't deserve to be farmed 15 toons for him. He performes twice worse than other 3 GLs, that means Half of toons from prerequisites should be removed. It's absolultely balanced view of his performance and his costs regarding resources. But if CG think that 15 toons are good for his prerequisites, PLEASE GIVE US A GL that WORTH IT.

    I'm not sure why you keep pinging me and saying things like this. At no point have I said he is ok in his current state.

    Kyno this is close to the statement we would like to hear from CG. IE SEE is not okay in his current state. I dont need to hear when it will be fixed, just that they are working on a fix.

    And as Doja has stated: when he has a message like that (or not) he will share it. He will not make that statement based on anything but fact.

    Also them looking into it indicates something is not exactly where they want it.

    Yeh, they have found time to apply some minor fixes to SEE according to latest updates, that means that they keep an eye on him, but overall no buffs and improvement are announced that make me think they are don't really intended to do it, Although they see that SEE is invalid for most events and challenges of the game, only some minor tweaks are still done.

    Those fixes were fixing bugs. His kit was not working as written, now it is. That is completely different than a rework or touch up.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Talking into account the worth of SEE in comparison with other 3 Gls, defitenly he doesn't deserve to be farmed 15 toons for him. He performes twice worse than other 3 GLs, that means Half of toons from prerequisites should be removed. It's absolultely balanced view of his performance and his costs regarding resources. But if CG think that 15 toons are good for his prerequisites, PLEASE GIVE US A GL that WORTH IT.

    I'm not sure why you keep pinging me and saying things like this. At no point have I said he is ok in his current state.

    Kyno this is close to the statement we would like to hear from CG. IE SEE is not okay in his current state. I dont need to hear when it will be fixed, just that they are working on a fix.

    And as Doja has stated: when he has a message like that (or not) he will share it. He will not make that statement based on anything but fact.

    Also them looking into it indicates something is not exactly where they want it.
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    Kyno Talking into account the worth of SEE in comparison with other 3 Gls, defitenly he doesn't deserve to be farmed 15 toons for him. He performes twice worse than other 3 GLs, that means Half of toons from prerequisites should be removed. It's absolultely balanced view of his performance and his costs regarding resources. But if CG think that 15 toons are good for his prerequisites, PLEASE GIVE US A GL that WORTH IT.

    I'm not sure why you keep pinging me and saying things like this. At no point have I said he is ok in his current state.

    Kyno this is close to the statement we would like to hear from CG. IE SEE is not okay in his current state. I dont need to hear when it will be fixed, just that they are working on a fix.

    And as Doja has stated: when he has a message like that (or not) he will share it. He will not make that statement based on anything but fact.

    Also them looking into it indicates something is not exactly where they want it.

    Yeh, they have found time to apply some minor fixes to SEE according to latest updates, that means that they keep an eye on him, but overall no buffs and improvement are announced that make me think they are don't really intended to do it, Although they see that SEE is invalid for most events and challenges of the game, only some minor tweaks are still done.

    It's a good thing they do not operate off what you think, they have a process and they will work through that to come to a decision.
  • SithAmer wrote: »

    People in my Arena with JML are starting to use this team now.

    So now I can be beat by SLKR, JML, Rey, easily. With SLKR and Rey able to solo me. Meanwhile SEE has no use anywhere else in the game.

    SEE is the most useless trash ever released, @CG_Doja_Fett you need to tell the dev team they should be ashamed for making this sub par legendary so expensive and calling it a Galactic Legend.

    hopeless-disappointed.gif


  • AlexanderG wrote: »
    For the record guys, from when Doja and Kyno have answered my questions about why we don't hear anything, it sounds like higher ups are the issue. If we're gonna be snippy and angry, better not to poke fun at the communication team specifically and more at CG who hired up a bigger and better communication staff and then told them they aren't allowed to tell us stuff.

    Mind you, it's a bit odd to hire a community manager that can't say anything.

    Welcome to corporate culture. He can say anything. Just nothing officially unless the Mouse gives it the okay. And people here will jump on anything he says as being official, even if he explicitly says it isn't official and is just his opinion.
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    CG just wait to see if their new Stone, paper, scissors scheme is able to work, for Arena i don't like the idea to buy additional attempts as i cannot leave my team on defense or sort my mods in oder to beat different types of teams, it's inconvenient and expensive. Most players didn't take the bait and they very rare use SEE now according to swgoh, The only way is to improve him for defense and for offense, otherwise SEE will be abandoned.
  • Xagen wrote: »
    CG just wait to see if their new Stone, paper, scissors scheme is able to work, for Arena i don't like the idea to buy additional attempts as i cannot leave my team on defense

    Maybe you are on to something...
    Make SEE bad on purpose to make people wanna spend crystals on refreshes 🤔

  • LordDunbar wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    CG just wait to see if their new Stone, paper, scissors scheme is able to work, for Arena i don't like the idea to buy additional attempts as i cannot leave my team on defense

    Maybe you are on to something...
    Make SEE bad on purpose to make people wanna spend crystals on refreshes 🤔

    CG's new scheme Rock, paper, scissors was intended to force people to farm more GLs, buy more attempts and actually spend far more than you receive from Arena. But old Gls have broken these plans, luckily.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Xagen wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    CG just wait to see if their new Stone, paper, scissors scheme is able to work, for Arena i don't like the idea to buy additional attempts as i cannot leave my team on defense

    Maybe you are on to something...
    Make SEE bad on purpose to make people wanna spend crystals on refreshes 🤔

    CG's new scheme Rock, paper, scissors was intended to force people to farm more GLs, buy more attempts and actually spend far more than you receive from Arena. But old Gls have broken these plans, luckily.

    Huh??? .....


    Nope, I dont get it, and I tried.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    When did they say they didnt want to buff him? Again, setting arbitrary timelines and acting like they have some meaning in the process doesnt really mean anything. There is more going on right now then when the older GLs were released, it's possible that is extending the timeline a bit.

    Yes they made statements when they knew what changes they were going to make. They have not come to any conclusion on SEE, so they have not made a statement. Yes we are on the outside edge of the timeframe, but we know they are looking at it, because they said they are.

    @Kyno Please see what you are saying here and how it leads to our conclusions. You say things like "CG never said they wont buff him" but then also say "they will only say something when there is some decision/conclusion that has been made". So we can safely and definitely conclude then that as of this time CG has in fact decided that based on everything they have seen, SEE will not get a buff, tweak or change of any kind. If they had made a decision on a change they would have said something. When nothing is communicated it means nothing has been decided. So its fine and logical for us to conclude that CG will do nothing because they have said nothing.

    Does this mean CG will never do something in the future? Of course not, but as of now they have not concluded there is anything wrong with SEE and are just "monitoring".
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    edited November 2020
    jezmonster wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    When did they say they didnt want to buff him? Again, setting arbitrary timelines and acting like they have some meaning in the process doesnt really mean anything. There is more going on right now then when the older GLs were released, it's possible that is extending the timeline a bit.

    Yes they made statements when they knew what changes they were going to make. They have not come to any conclusion on SEE, so they have not made a statement. Yes we are on the outside edge of the timeframe, but we know they are looking at it, because they said they are.

    Kyno Please see what you are saying here and how it leads to our conclusions. You say things like "CG never said they wont buff him" but then also say "they will only say something when there is some decision/conclusion that has been made". So we can safely and definitely conclude then that as of this time CG has in fact decided that based on everything they have seen, SEE will not get a buff, tweak or change of any kind. If they had made a decision on a change they would have said something. When nothing is communicated it means nothing has been decided. So its fine and logical for us to conclude that CG will do nothing because they have said nothing.

    Does this mean CG will never do something in the future? Of course not, but as of now they have not concluded there is anything wrong with SEE and are just "monitoring".

    You drawing your own conclusion from someone not saying something, is on you.

    They will make a statement when they have a decision or something to say. Anyone taking them not saying something as them saying something about this is 100% incorrect.

    Is that clear enough?
    Post edited by Kyno on
  • Kyno wrote: »
    jezmonster wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    When did they say they didnt want to buff him? Again, setting arbitrary timelines and acting like they have some meaning in the process doesnt really mean anything. There is more going on right now then when the older GLs were released, it's possible that is extending the timeline a bit.

    Yes they made statements when they knew what changes they were going to make. They have not come to any conclusion on SEE, so they have not made a statement. Yes we are on the outside edge of the timeframe, but we know they are looking at it, because they said they are.

    Kyno Please see what you are saying here and how it leads to our conclusions. You say things like "CG never said they wont buff him" but then also say "they will only say something when there is some decision/conclusion that has been made". So we can safely and definitely conclude then that as of this time CG has in fact decided that based on everything they have seen, SEE will not get a buff, tweak or change of any kind. If they had made a decision on a change they would have said something. When nothing is communicated it means nothing has been decided. So its fine and logical for us to conclude that CG will do nothing because they have said nothing.

    Does this mean CG will never do something in the future? Of course not, but as of now they have not concluded there is anything wrong with SEE and are just "monitoring".

    You drawing your conclusion own conclusion from someone not saying something, is on you.

    They will make a statement when they have a decision or something to say. Anyone taking them not saying something as them saying something about this is 100% incorrect.

    Is that clear enough?

    “they will make a statement when they have a decision”. But don’t conclude a decision has not been made by them not making a statement. But they will make a statement when they decide something.

    Makes perfect sense. How could it not.

  • how many more times in this thread are ppl going to argue semantics with Kyno? Just curious. Seems to happen every few pages.

    1. "CG is monitoring the new GLs." Obviously. JML has had at least two bug fixes and GLEE has had the same.
    2. "The GLs must be WAI as CG has done nothing." Not true or they wouldn't have fixed 4 bugs btwn the 2 GLs. Anyone concluding that but ignoring the bug fixes is being disingenuous.
    3. "By not saying something, CG is saying something." Logical fallacy. But for giggles, they've not been silent. They've had to fix 4 bugs, 3 of them quite recently, so CG's efforts to monitor the toons in the wild have obviously shown the bugs and they've been working on correcting them and releasing the fixes as they can. This in turn lengthens the monitoring process for any potential buffs or further fixes, obviously. Just relax.
    4. "Old GLs break the rock-paper-scissors goal of CG" .....I'm still confused by this one. Legit no idea what that post meant or was saying. :confused:
This discussion has been closed.