Shard Economy Changes [MEGA]

Replies

  • Konju wrote: »
    Gouj4 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    CG_Doja_Fett Can you please also tell the devs about the awful rewards in HAAT and HSTR?
    More importantly, why there is so much crossover on rewards from HAAT into HSTR. There are so many ways to fix the gear crunch but it’s continually ignored
    If They don't believe something exists are They really continually ignoring it?

    From Thier perspective there may not be a gear crunch, and it may be right where They want it to be.

    Except Cyanides came out last year and said fixes were needed for gear economy and even asked us as much what we would see as relief to the gear crunch if their methods weren’t enough. That was literally a year ago. So yes. Gear crunch acknowledged and ignored.
    Gouj4 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    CG_Doja_Fett Can you please also tell the devs about the awful rewards in HAAT and HSTR?
    More importantly, why there is so much crossover on rewards from HAAT into HSTR. There are so many ways to fix the gear crunch but it’s continually ignored
    If They don't believe something exists are They really continually ignoring it?

    From Thier perspective there may not be a gear crunch, and it may be right where They want it to be.

    Except they’ve stated that they know gear is one of the things they need to tackle

    Yet as many have stated a simple thing with this change to shards would have been to leave the shard shop alone to ease the gear crunch, however they are not doing this, instead they are doing everything they can to make it stay the same or worse on the gear front.

    I’m aware of that but your point was that they didn’t know it exists which they clearly do. Just because they’re not doing anything to address it now doesn’t mean they won’t down the line once they’ve seen whatever they need to see from this shard update.

    You are right. They do know and have known that the gear crunch is an aspect the player base has been frustrated with for quite some time. I think scuba was saying that they created the gear crunch to be as it is, therefore they do not view it as a real issue. I think most people who have played this game for over a year or two see the actions of the devs toward the players’ acquisition of gear (the biggest crunch in the game) as a net negative to the player base. They “say” they want to “tackle” the gear crunch issue. Their “solutions” for the gear crunch so far:

    1. Introduce Kyrotech (another gear crunch), “alleviated” by obtaining 3ish salvage daily when single characters need 100s
    2. Increase gear levels and relic levels (another crunch)
    3. Introduced Galactic Challenges (“requiring” relic characters to get gear rewards for which there is a crunch)
    4. Add new tiers to Assault Battles (also “requiring” relic characters in order to obtain relic materials)
    5. Offer cheaper gear packs ($5 sounds really nice when fighting for gear for weeks and months), good way to make money for CG.
    6. Nerf Bronzium character drops, reducing shard shop currency.

    Don’t get me wrong, I hope you are right and they do something to at least keep the gear crunch as is, but previous actions speak otherwise. Intentionality of the gear crunch by the devs, in my view, is obvious. I do not expect any large positive changes when it comes to gear acquisition, especially when gear purchases make up a big portion of their profits...by design. My worry is that even if/when they do give us some gear benefits down the road, it will be in a similar form as this shard benefit now, creating problems elsewhere in the game.

    All I hope for is a net neutral outcome from this Bronzium pack issue when it comes to shard shop currency. I do not expect anything to alleviate the gear crunch, but my guess is that it will come in the form of rewards from a new “impossible to complete for a few more months/year” type of content. Oh wait...new Rancor Tiers are on the way, aren’t they?

    You are only mentioning the ones that fit your criteria.

    You missed

    1. Addition of new tb which reward a significant amount of gear.

    2. Addition of gac (with gear rewards)

    So I agree that they do make changes that nerf gear, they also add content that reduces the crunch.

    I don't know if they think the crunch will need tightening or loosening after the shard changes but they likely have a target and will change it to meet it.

    I'm hoping the target is to make getting to g12 much easier but that may or may not be the case.
  • Hornist wrote: »
    Montanz wrote: »
    At the end of the day not doubling the character unlock pulls of 10/25/50/80 is a huge nerf. Everyone will get burnt by this eventually, even new players once they finish the outdated toons offered there.

    This is the kind of change that CG has done in the past to seemingly benefit players but end up hurting them in the long run.

    When mk8 biotech salvage was removed from the HAAT ppl didn’t seem to mind (even I didn’t mind as I had 3000) there was a minority of smart players who knew it would be bad but they got downvoted. Fast forward 2 years and now you don’t have any cos every toon needed 4x60 of them. That was a nerf hidden in good news of a chance to get the other rewards.

    Maybe that story is a poor example, but back then the majority wanted them removed and they got removed. Now veterans are buying them from shard shop (rip) and guild store.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is I do think these seemingly positive changes need to be examined closely and everyone needs to understand the devs will always have a bigger picture plan to get you to spend money no matter how nice an update sounds.

    We were fools for wanting that HAAT gear change and we will be fools again for letting this bronzium nerf pass by unchecked. The complaints are warranted and many ppl have felt the burn before. Stop thinking the player base doesn’t know what’s going on CG.

    Edit: it may be the case that something about the gear economy gets changed to balance what will happen with the shard changes. But we don’t know that. All we know is what is happening now.

    I think that example isn't really a good one. When they removed the eyeballs that we had a ton of from haat, you got other gear that we didn't have a ton of instead. So it wasn't like it was removed and you just didn't get gear from that slot.

    Your case on this current issue is also a bit overblown. If you have a ton of characters to farm (aka you are a newer player), the time you save and energy you can put towards gear farming (a hard node now takes 3 mo for older characters instead of 6) more than outweighs the bronizum nerf.

    I don't like the bronizum nerf either and it certainly doesn't follow the intended goal they stated. But it is not as large a nerf for most players as you are indicating.

    Actually a lot of the best gear from the shard shop comes from late ship nodes, and they didn't enhance that farm, so after a certain point the crunch will still hit when no new players have good fleets and have to spend 30 stun guns on all of their 7* g8 toons they've gotten at an accelerated pace. And once they've spent 8.2 million credits per toon. And after they get to the point where they've 7*'d all 33 of the Bronzium toons twice as fast making the Bronzium nerf also hit them.

    I think maybe his comparison is a tad off, but I disagree that it's overblown. And your energy analogy only applies to newer players anyway, since most of us aren't "saving energy" by farming old toons faster now. We have them all 7* and farm gear nods specifically so we don't have to get as many in the shard shop. This nerf is huge for veterans right now, and the longer it goes with double drops and no Bronzium fix, the more the new players who got "help" are gonna run into the same wall.

    It is a nerd. I agree with you on that. And it does need addressed but some are acting like it is cutting their shard currency in half. That just isn't the case.

    I get shards from the following sources regularly on my main account.

    5-10 shards a day from cantina (depends on how many refreshes)

    15 from arena store a day

    15 from gw store (yes I do the ships but it converts roughly the same as 15 character shards)

    About 7 a day from gw drops

    And probably 10 a day on average from bronizums (it varies but let's say 8 of them are from full drops)

    So that's about 54 shards or so a day on average. The nerf will effectively take away 4 of those a day. That's an effective reduction in shard shop currency of about 7%. That still isn't good but it isn't the sky is falling disaster that will ruin.

    You fleet node point also doesn't hold water. It only takes one fleet to beat all the fleet nodes. If you pick ones that don't have 3 characters per ship and that are decent enough anyway, that isn't too big of hurdle.

    If you spend half your energy farming characters and the other half farming stun guns, you would still 7 star the old characters at the same rate you do now and still have half your energy to farm stun guns. You can gear the 7 pilots to g11 or g12 fairly easily to beat the fleet nodes.

    If you gear bugs, vader, bossk, boba, tarkin and jka you can have a fleet that can plow through the pve content with little waste.

    You need bugs for geo tb eventually anyway. Vader is amazing. Bossk and boba are good for a lot of bh pve content. Jka is great is late game fleet anyway and good for other parts of the game. Tarkin isn't great but probably better than mace or ackbar if you want a lean fleet.

    This is one case. My personal shard shop currency is far different. I get a maximum, right now, of about 20-40 shards/day from sources other than Bronziums. I am by no means a new account, but not veteran either. I get on average about 20-40 shards from full character pulls every 2 days so my SSC is being cut nearer to 30% than 4%, assuming the average of my shard pulls. For people caught between being new accounts and launch accounts, this hits pretty hard, especially because it is the most consistent source of shards when all of your energy goes to new character farms or gear/relic farms.

    I'm not saying this is going to destroy progress, nor is anyone else I think, but honestly with gear being as bad as it is already, ANY nerf is going to suck, and for a lot of accounts this is a pretty decent percentage. I end up getting sometimes a third or more of my daily gear from the shard shop as well, so this effectively slows an already lugubrious process by 10-30% depending on the day/week.

    You also likely have a ton of characters that you will farm quicker and have more energy for gear if you are at that point.

    Of course no two accounts are the same. I listed what is likely average for end game that has all the stores farmed. That's where my main account is at. My alt account gets very little to no shard shop currency but the new change will help it tremendously.

    The nerf part is for older accounts and it is probably around 10% of shard shop currency. But that's assuming you have nothing better to farm from stores. If you aren't there yet, your results will differ but you'll likely also benefit more from the changes.
  • ClaytonCarmine
    19 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Kyno wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.

    Did you read the topic at all? Check this line from your quote:

    "(This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    This is the part we get majority of shards that turns into shard shop currency from.

    This.

    Even in small samples, you can see this. Full characters do drop less, but the fact that they are 10-80× the shard ship currency, this doesnt really resolve the issue or bring us to a net neutral on the change.

    What you're suggesting here would destabilize the game. You're talking about players potential getting anywhere from 20 to 160 shards on a whim. Sure that may be nothing for veterans, but at lower levels that would seriously mess with the balance in Arena, and make the game incredibly frustrating. Stars directly translate into more powerful characters, so if someone is just suddenly given the ability to have one-to-two or maybe even three more stars than they normally would, the game would suffer.

    Sure the chances of this seem pretty low due to the nature of bronzium, but you're hedging a gambit that could ruin the flow of the game for players when they're just reaching the first pvp sections of the game. One of the most crucial facets of crystal/currency income. If the game turns into an unbalanced and buggy mess at that level, then CG has lost a customer. The Veterans are already hooked so deeply that they'll likely keep playing regardless, but those newcomers might not. And at the end of the day, the profit margins are what matter to CG, and doubling the 'character unlock' shard drops would ruin lower-level player balance. Which would negatively impact those margins in the longhaul.

  • Kyno
    28652 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.

    Did you read the topic at all? Check this line from your quote:

    "(This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    This is the part we get majority of shards that turns into shard shop currency from.

    This.

    Even in small samples, you can see this. Full characters do drop less, but the fact that they are 10-80× the shard ship currency, this doesnt really resolve the issue or bring us to a net neutral on the change.

    What you're suggesting here would destabilize the game. You're talking about players potential getting anywhere from 20 to 160 shards on a whim. Sure that may be nothing for veterans, but at lower levels that would seriously mess with the balance in Arena, and make the game incredibly frustrating. Stars directly translate into more powerful characters, so if someone is just suddenly given the ability to have one-to-two or maybe even three more stars than they normally would, the game would suffer.

    Sure the chances of this seem pretty low due to the nature of bronzium, but you're hedging a gambit that could ruin the flow of the game for players when they're just reaching the first pvp sections of the game. One of the most crucial facets of crystal/currency income. If the game turns into an unbalanced and buggy mess at that level, then CG has lost a customer. The Veterans are already hooked so deeply that they'll likely keep playing regardless, but those newcomers might not. And at the end of the day, the profit margins are what matter to CG, and doubling the 'character unlock' shard drops would ruin lower-level player balance.

    We can agree to disagree, but stars are nothing more than a content gate. A good character is good at 4 stars, and only gets better with gear. Stars only effect this process, because you cant gear any higher without the stars.

    Can you point at which toons in the bronzium pack would ruin game balance at any point in the game?
  • ClaytonCarmine
    19 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Kyno wrote: »

    We can agree to disagree, but stars are nothing more than a content gate. A good character is good at 4 stars, and only gets better with gear. Stars only effect this process, because you cant gear any higher without the stars.

    Can you point at which toons in the bronzium pack would ruin game balance at any point in the game?

    Barris, Old Daka, Boba Fett, Luminara, Veers, Biggs, Ashoka, Magna Guard, Fives.

    To veterans none of these seem like a big deal, but for lower-tier players? Those characters can act as silver bullet cures for arena troubles, catina battles, and lightside/darkside campaigns respectively. Not to mention a few of those get you on the fast-track to powerful ships in the late-game.

    I know how terrifyingly impactful Luminara (plus I have managed to pull her full unlock a ridiculous number of times on my main and alt accounts from bronzium) is because I made a fresh account so I could approach the 5th-anniversary update with clear eyes. She can be a monster in the lowest levels of Arena, and by the time you get to the point where you can overwhelm her, you're locked in the current stronghold of the Phoenix squad Meta

  • Kyno
    28652 posts Moderator
    edited November 2020
    Kyno wrote: »

    We can agree to disagree, but stars are nothing more than a content gate. A good character is good at 4 stars, and only gets better with gear. Stars only effect this process, because you cant gear any higher without the stars.

    Can you point at which toons in the bronzium pack would ruin game balance at any point in the game?

    Barris, Old Daka, Boba Fett, Luminara, Veers, Biggs, Ashoka, Magna Guard, Fives.

    To veterans none of these seem like a big deal, but for lower-tier players? Those characters can act as silver bullet cures for arena troubles, catina battles, and lightside/darkside campaigns respectively. Not to mention a few of those get you on the fast-track to powerful ships in the late-game.

    I know how terrifyingly impactful Luminara (plus I have managed to pull her full unlock a ridiculous number of times on my main and alt accounts from bronzium) is because I made a fresh account so I could approach the 5th-anniversary update with clear eyes. She can be a monster in the lowest levels of Arena, and by the time you get to the point where you can overwhelm her, you're locked in the current stronghold of the Phoenix squad Meta

    None of those characters make a bit of difference without a team. So yes it could be an "impactful" pull, without gear and other character it doesn't make any difference.

    Also, how does all players at that level having more access to those characters unbalance anything? Since they all have equal chances isnt it by definition balanced for them?
  • Kyno wrote: »
    None of those characters make a bit of difference without a team. So yes it could be an "impactful" pull, without gear and other character it doesn't make any difference.

    Also, how does all players at that level having more access to those characters unbalance anything? Since they all have equal chances isnt it by definition balanced for them?

    They all have an equal chance to pull it. this is true. But them pulling the character isn't the problem.

    if you're dealing with say... two-to-three star characters mostly? With the worst opponents you encounter being early phoenix and Kylo Ren/Scavenger Rey.

    How do you think pulling 160 Daka shards would impact the game? Since you usually have Talia and Acolyte or Iniate by then. Or how about pulling 160 shards of Barris? Kaanan and Ezra aren't hard to come by. And everyone already gets a freebie jedi.

    Or how about the fact that you can just plug Boba into most early game line-ups and have him immediately do serious work?

    The chance of pulling that character isn't the issue, it's pulling that character and instantly being able to take them up to three, four, or five stars respectively. Gear is king in late game, you're absolutely right.

    But a gear 3 Barris is going to shred a gear four or five Farmboy Luke, or Clone Sergeant.

    The point is, I don't blame capital games for not taking that risk.

    On an unrelated note, I do blame capital games for not adding an "Open x 4, X8, or x10" button to Bronzium packs. there is no reason someone should spend forty minutes opening 250k worth of ally points in packs because there's no multiple openings button.

  • Kyno wrote: »
    None of those characters make a bit of difference without a team. So yes it could be an "impactful" pull, without gear and other character it doesn't make any difference.

    Also, how does all players at that level having more access to those characters unbalance anything? Since they all have equal chances isnt it by definition balanced for them?

    They all have an equal chance to pull it. this is true. But them pulling the character isn't the problem.

    if you're dealing with say... two-to-three star characters mostly? With the worst opponents you encounter being early phoenix and Kylo Ren/Scavenger Rey.

    How do you think pulling 160 Daka shards would impact the game? Since you usually have Talia and Acolyte or Iniate by then. Or how about pulling 160 shards of Barris? Kaanan and Ezra aren't hard to come by. And everyone already gets a freebie jedi.

    Or how about the fact that you can just plug Boba into most early game line-ups and have him immediately do serious work?

    The chance of pulling that character isn't the issue, it's pulling that character and instantly being able to take them up to three, four, or five stars respectively. Gear is king in late game, you're absolutely right.

    But a gear 3 Barris is going to shred a gear four or five Farmboy Luke, or Clone Sergeant.

    The point is, I don't blame capital games for not taking that risk.

    On an unrelated note, I do blame capital games for not adding an "Open x 4, X8, or x10" button to Bronzium packs. there is no reason someone should spend forty minutes opening 250k worth of ally points in packs because there's no multiple openings button.

    Your argument about it unbalancing the game does not hold water, because everyone has the same chance at those pulls.

    Since this is an RNG game, that's kind of just how it is.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.

    Did you read the topic at all? Check this line from your quote:

    "(This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    This is the part we get majority of shards that turns into shard shop currency from.

    This.

    Even in small samples, you can see this. Full characters do drop less, but the fact that they are 10-80× the shard ship currency, this doesnt really resolve the issue or bring us to a net neutral on the change.

    What you're suggesting here would destabilize the game. You're talking about players potential getting anywhere from 20 to 160 shards on a whim. Sure that may be nothing for veterans, but at lower levels that would seriously mess with the balance in Arena, and make the game incredibly frustrating. Stars directly translate into more powerful characters, so if someone is just suddenly given the ability to have one-to-two or maybe even three more stars than they normally would, the game would suffer.

    Sure the chances of this seem pretty low due to the nature of bronzium, but you're hedging a gambit that could ruin the flow of the game for players when they're just reaching the first pvp sections of the game. One of the most crucial facets of crystal/currency income. If the game turns into an unbalanced and buggy mess at that level, then CG has lost a customer. The Veterans are already hooked so deeply that they'll likely keep playing regardless, but those newcomers might not. And at the end of the day, the profit margins are what matter to CG, and doubling the 'character unlock' shard drops would ruin lower-level player balance. Which would negatively impact those margins in the longhaul.

    I don't think the impact would be all that dramatic.

    First everyone would have that shot at the increased shards so it would even out.

    Second, the bronizum characters are not very good ones so even a low star separatist, Phoenix, empire, or Bastilla team would destroy the 7 star bronizum team you describe.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    None of those characters make a bit of difference without a team. So yes it could be an "impactful" pull, without gear and other character it doesn't make any difference.

    Also, how does all players at that level having more access to those characters unbalance anything? Since they all have equal chances isnt it by definition balanced for them?

    They all have an equal chance to pull it. this is true. But them pulling the character isn't the problem.

    if you're dealing with say... two-to-three star characters mostly? With the worst opponents you encounter being early phoenix and Kylo Ren/Scavenger Rey.

    How do you think pulling 160 Daka shards would impact the game? Since you usually have Talia and Acolyte or Iniate by then. Or how about pulling 160 shards of Barris? Kaanan and Ezra aren't hard to come by. And everyone already gets a freebie jedi.

    Or how about the fact that you can just plug Boba into most early game line-ups and have him immediately do serious work?

    The chance of pulling that character isn't the issue, it's pulling that character and instantly being able to take them up to three, four, or five stars respectively. Gear is king in late game, you're absolutely right.

    But a gear 3 Barris is going to shred a gear four or five Farmboy Luke, or Clone Sergeant.

    The point is, I don't blame capital games for not taking that risk.

    On an unrelated note, I do blame capital games for not adding an "Open x 4, X8, or x10" button to Bronzium packs. there is no reason someone should spend forty minutes opening 250k worth of ally points in packs because there's no multiple openings button.

    At worst this would shift the early game teams slightly. You may see some get daka a bit earlier for example. But ns aren't good without mother talezin and zombie so the Phoenix teams will still dominate them because you can't get my or zombie early enough to be of much use ftp.

    And if you bought the hyperdrive bundle, you have far better choices than a random bronizum pull.

    And I would still bet a 3 star Phoenix team would ploy through a team with a 7 star bronizum pull with little synergy (assuming equal gear and mods)
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.

    Did you read the topic at all? Check this line from your quote:

    "(This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    This is the part we get majority of shards that turns into shard shop currency from.

    This.

    Even in small samples, you can see this. Full characters do drop less, but the fact that they are 10-80× the shard ship currency, this doesnt really resolve the issue or bring us to a net neutral on the change.

    What you're suggesting here would destabilize the game. You're talking about players potential getting anywhere from 20 to 160 shards on a whim. Sure that may be nothing for veterans, but at lower levels that would seriously mess with the balance in Arena, and make the game incredibly frustrating. Stars directly translate into more powerful characters, so if someone is just suddenly given the ability to have one-to-two or maybe even three more stars than they normally would, the game would suffer.

    Sure the chances of this seem pretty low due to the nature of bronzium, but you're hedging a gambit that could ruin the flow of the game for players when they're just reaching the first pvp sections of the game. One of the most crucial facets of crystal/currency income. If the game turns into an unbalanced and buggy mess at that level, then CG has lost a customer. The Veterans are already hooked so deeply that they'll likely keep playing regardless, but those newcomers might not. And at the end of the day, the profit margins are what matter to CG, and doubling the 'character unlock' shard drops would ruin lower-level player balance. Which would negatively impact those margins in the longhaul.

    I don't think the impact would be all that dramatic.

    First everyone would have that shot at the increased shards so it would even out.

    Second, the bronizum characters are not very good ones so even a low star separatist, Phoenix, empire, or Bastilla team would destroy the 7 star bronizum team you describe.

    A couple of them are good, boba, fives, old daka, Ashoka, and poggle, Others that need specific teams but are still good, jawas, veers, dooku, and ewoks.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.

    Did you read the topic at all? Check this line from your quote:

    "(This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    This is the part we get majority of shards that turns into shard shop currency from.

    This.

    Even in small samples, you can see this. Full characters do drop less, but the fact that they are 10-80× the shard ship currency, this doesnt really resolve the issue or bring us to a net neutral on the change.

    What you're suggesting here would destabilize the game. You're talking about players potential getting anywhere from 20 to 160 shards on a whim. Sure that may be nothing for veterans, but at lower levels that would seriously mess with the balance in Arena, and make the game incredibly frustrating. Stars directly translate into more powerful characters, so if someone is just suddenly given the ability to have one-to-two or maybe even three more stars than they normally would, the game would suffer.

    Sure the chances of this seem pretty low due to the nature of bronzium, but you're hedging a gambit that could ruin the flow of the game for players when they're just reaching the first pvp sections of the game. One of the most crucial facets of crystal/currency income. If the game turns into an unbalanced and buggy mess at that level, then CG has lost a customer. The Veterans are already hooked so deeply that they'll likely keep playing regardless, but those newcomers might not. And at the end of the day, the profit margins are what matter to CG, and doubling the 'character unlock' shard drops would ruin lower-level player balance. Which would negatively impact those margins in the longhaul.

    I don't think the impact would be all that dramatic.

    First everyone would have that shot at the increased shards so it would even out.

    Second, the bronizum characters are not very good ones so even a low star separatist, Phoenix, empire, or Bastilla team would destroy the 7 star bronizum team you describe.

    A couple of them are good, boba, fives, old daka, Ashoka, and poggle, Others that need specific teams but are still good, jawas, veers, dooku, and ewoks.

    None of those are game changers against even a Phoenix team without other difficult to farm characters to complete a team. So for the purpose of the discussion the bronizums characters aren't very good for forming a new team. Yes some are somewhat plug and play. But add team with synergy will beat them easily.

    Daka - you need mt and zombie bothhard node farm for her to do a lot. Otherwise kill her first for an easy win.

    Ashoka- decent and ok in an early jedi team but not really good without padme.

    Poggle - you really need brood alpha to make him good. He can work under dooku but you still have to farm a team so just putting him in a random early team won't work very well.

    Boba needs bossk to really do a lot. You can farm an early bh team but it'll be a c team at best without bossk or jango which both are hard node farms.

    Fives needs shak ti or gas so not great early game.

    Jawas are trash. Maybe good if you have GL Rey butnot worth the effort to gear.

    Veers - you need a troopers team. Veers alone is useless. You really need piett to make it work well.

    Dooku you need the rest of a team but has some plug and play viability. But not enough.

    Ewoks - trash without wicket. And a c team with wicket. So no huge gain there.

    So even if a player suddenly had all of the characters you listed at 7 stars, it wouldn't even give them a good team without further farming.

    And it definitely wouldn't break the game.
  • It is a nerd. I agree with you on that. And it does need addressed but some are acting like it is cutting their shard currency in half. That just isn't the case.

    I get shards from the following sources regularly on my main account.

    5-10 shards a day from cantina (depends on how many refreshes)

    15 from arena store a day

    15 from gw store (yes I do the ships but it converts roughly the same as 15 character shards)

    About 7 a day from gw drops

    And probably 10 a day on average from bronizums (it varies but let's say 8 of them are from full drops)

    So that's about 54 shards or so a day on average. The nerf will effectively take away 4 of those a day. That's an effective reduction in shard shop currency of about 7%. That still isn't good but it isn't the sky is falling disaster that will ruin.

    I'm going to nitpick here a bit. Because I feel like this isn't very accurate.

    1. Not everyone is done w/ every Cantina farm in the game to be using Cantina energy for Shard Farming.

    2. 15/Day from Arena is impossible as that would be 1200/Day Coins & 1100 is Max if you take 1st every single day of the year. Which also isn't relevant to the vast majority of the population.

    3. 7 from GW is possible but certainly not the "Average"

    4. ONLY 10/Day from Bronziums? I honestly don't think a day goes by were I don't get at least 1 of the 1* openings w/ several singles. I'd say the Bronzium averages over 10/day for sure & certainly over 10 a day is the average from Full Characters since I get a 25 a couple times a month & plenty of days with 2+ of the 1* openings.


    My own totals would probably be ...........
    0-Cantina
    15-GWar Store
    8-Squad
    4-Gwar Sim
    13+ Bronziums (11+ avg from Openings)

    So closer to 40/Day is what I'd call "normal" and being nerfed from 10-12 for 5-6 in value.
    Which is 15% income or so.
    No one wants 15% paycut..... ever.


  • Kyno wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Bronzium packs are no longer getting 'nerfed'. Check "Dev Announcements and News" and then read "Update on Bronzium Packs and Tank Takedown Raid". CG_SBCrumb writes it out as follows:

    "First up is Bronzium packs, these originally were not going to be changed due to a technical issue but seeing how important this was to you, the team dedicated some extra time to this and was able to find the issues that were preventing us from updating Bronzium Packs. Character shards dropped from Bronzium Packs will be doubled with the Anniversary Update. (This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    The Issue has effectively been resolved from this angle. However, regarding ships. If you read the shard economy changes, Ship blueprints may not have double drops, but their blueprints are now worth double what they used to be. So the Bronzium Packs balance out now.

    Did you read the topic at all? Check this line from your quote:

    "(This does not affect full character drops from Bronzium packs)"

    This is the part we get majority of shards that turns into shard shop currency from.

    This.

    Even in small samples, you can see this. Full characters do drop less, but the fact that they are 10-80× the shard ship currency, this doesnt really resolve the issue or bring us to a net neutral on the change.

    What you're suggesting here would destabilize the game. You're talking about players potential getting anywhere from 20 to 160 shards on a whim. Sure that may be nothing for veterans, but at lower levels that would seriously mess with the balance in Arena, and make the game incredibly frustrating. Stars directly translate into more powerful characters, so if someone is just suddenly given the ability to have one-to-two or maybe even three more stars than they normally would, the game would suffer.

    Sure the chances of this seem pretty low due to the nature of bronzium, but you're hedging a gambit that could ruin the flow of the game for players when they're just reaching the first pvp sections of the game. One of the most crucial facets of crystal/currency income. If the game turns into an unbalanced and buggy mess at that level, then CG has lost a customer. The Veterans are already hooked so deeply that they'll likely keep playing regardless, but those newcomers might not. And at the end of the day, the profit margins are what matter to CG, and doubling the 'character unlock' shard drops would ruin lower-level player balance. Which would negatively impact those margins in the longhaul.

    "Oh no, my opponent has a 7* Mace Windu, and all I have is a 7* Boba Fett I drew at equal odds, oh the balance is ruined"

    On a less snide note, I have a lower account, level 78, barely active, only about 6 months old. Every character you went on to list as "impactful draws" that would threaten balance are available from other early sources like Cantina store and Arena store. All the characters you listed except Barriss are on my lower account at 5* already. Boosting full draws would do next to nothing, especially considering the entire goal of the update is to enhance the speed at which new players can farm toons.
  • It is a nerd. I agree with you on that. And it does need addressed but some are acting like it is cutting their shard currency in half. That just isn't the case.

    I get shards from the following sources regularly on my main account.

    5-10 shards a day from cantina (depends on how many refreshes)

    15 from arena store a day

    15 from gw store (yes I do the ships but it converts roughly the same as 15 character shards)

    About 7 a day from gw drops

    And probably 10 a day on average from bronizums (it varies but let's say 8 of them are from full drops)

    So that's about 54 shards or so a day on average. The nerf will effectively take away 4 of those a day. That's an effective reduction in shard shop currency of about 7%. That still isn't good but it isn't the sky is falling disaster that will ruin.

    I'm going to nitpick here a bit. Because I feel like this isn't very accurate.

    1. Not everyone is done w/ every Cantina farm in the game to be using Cantina energy for Shard Farming.

    2. 15/Day from Arena is impossible as that would be 1200/Day Coins & 1100 is Max if you take 1st every single day of the year. Which also isn't relevant to the vast majority of the population.

    3. 7 from GW is possible but certainly not the "Average"

    4. ONLY 10/Day from Bronziums? I honestly don't think a day goes by were I don't get at least 1 of the 1* openings w/ several singles. I'd say the Bronzium averages over 10/day for sure & certainly over 10 a day is the average from Full Characters since I get a 25 a couple times a month & plenty of days with 2+ of the 1* openings.


    My own totals would probably be ...........
    0-Cantina
    15-GWar Store
    8-Squad
    4-Gwar Sim
    13+ Bronziums (11+ avg from Openings)

    So closer to 40/Day is what I'd call "normal" and being nerfed from 10-12 for 5-6 in value.
    Which is 15% income or so.
    No one wants 15% paycut..... ever.


    1. The cantina store is one you finish early. And you get cantina currency from any cantina node. So at end game there is little to buy from there but shards. If I do refreshes (which is one of the better uses of crystals) I probably get at least 800 currency or enough for 10 shards. And considering if you don't do refreshes you get less ally points too, if you get max bronizums you also get max cantina currency.

    2. I do take 1st pretty much everyday so much closer to 3 than 2. Also I believe you get some from dailies too but even at 1100 a day that is still approximately 15 shards.

    3. I don't count but it's somewhere around 5 to 7 characters in there after I sim it and go to the shard shop.

    4. I haven't tracked this but you get about 10k a day in ally points at most. I've opened some where 10k gets you 80 shards or more but some where you get 2. I've been trying to keep up with my bronizums lately on two accounts and I get a full drop every other day or so. Mostly 10 but sometimes more. I had one day where I got 150 shards from 10k but that is very rare.


    Even if you assume 15 from bronizums that would only make it about a 10% nerd rather than a 7% nerd. Still sucks but still not the end of the world.

    Just to be clear. I think they absolutely should adjust the shard prices to account for and neutralize the nerf. Making the prices 180% of that they are now rather than double would easily do that. I think 190% would be closer to neutral but with rng it's hard to say. And it is better to err on the side of a slight buff than a nerf.
  • TVF
    27966 posts Member
    A 10% nerd seems low around these parts (self included naturally)
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    A 10% nerd seems low around these parts (self included naturally)

    Yeah that was auto correct.
  • I think a key point being missed by the people arguing numbers games is that CG stated explicitly that their goal is to keep end-game neutral this round of updates. So even if the nerf is as low as 2%, it is a failure on their end that should be corrected, by their own admission.
  • I think a key point being missed by the people arguing numbers games is that CG stated explicitly that their goal is to keep end-game neutral this round of updates. So even if the nerf is as low as 2%, it is a failure on their end that should be corrected, by their own admission.

    I agree. But two things can be true at the same time.

    1. CG can have a nerf that isn't in line with their stated intention and it needs fixed.

    2. People can also be exaggerating the effects of this nerf and blowing it out of proportion.

    I have suggested that they simply adjust the shard shop prices to actually make it neutral as they claim to want. But to do so the size of the impact is an important factor.
  • Kyno
    28652 posts Moderator
    I think a key point being missed by the people arguing numbers games is that CG stated explicitly that their goal is to keep end-game neutral this round of updates. So even if the nerf is as low as 2%, it is a failure on their end that should be corrected, by their own admission.

    I believe it was stated "as close as possible", at which point if it was really only 2% (which we cant really prove), that would be pretty close.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    I think a key point being missed by the people arguing numbers games is that CG stated explicitly that their goal is to keep end-game neutral this round of updates. So even if the nerf is as low as 2%, it is a failure on their end that should be corrected, by their own admission.

    I believe it was stated "as close as possible", at which point if it was really only 2% (which we cant really prove), that would be pretty close.

    That still isn't as close as possible. Since adjusting the shard shop prices by 2% less would be closer and relatively easy to do.

    I'm ok with as close as reasonably achievable but doubling the shard cost without fixing full character drops in bronizums isn't that.
  • Shadowmaster4
    475 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Kyno wrote: »
    I think a key point being missed by the people arguing numbers games is that CG stated explicitly that their goal is to keep end-game neutral this round of updates. So even if the nerf is as low as 2%, it is a failure on their end that should be corrected, by their own admission.

    I believe it was stated "as close as possible", at which point if it was really only 2% (which we cant really prove), that would be pretty close.

    We can prove with math that each person has a different outcome, but no one has said a number as low as 2% yet. I was being generous, because the real average is likely much closer to 10%.

    Also, if 2% is as close as possible, then why would there be easy ways to close that 2% gap? That's not what "as close as possible" means, that's settling.

    Edit: 2% would be incredibly close though, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying there's no reason to stop there unless it is absolutely as close as they can get it. And it isn't, since they can just adjust prices or income sources as much as they want until it's balanced or even net positive.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    I think a key point being missed by the people arguing numbers games is that CG stated explicitly that their goal is to keep end-game neutral this round of updates. So even if the nerf is as low as 2%, it is a failure on their end that should be corrected, by their own admission.

    I believe it was stated "as close as possible", at which point if it was really only 2% (which we cant really prove), that would be pretty close.

    We can prove with math that each person has a different outcome, but no one has said a number as low as 2% yet. I was being generous, because the real average is likely much closer to 10%.

    Also, if 2% is as close as possible, then why would there be easy ways to close that 2% gap? That's not what "as close as possible" means, that's settling.

    Edit: 2% would be incredibly close though, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying there's no reason to stop there unless it is absolutely as close as they can get it. And it isn't, since they can just adjust prices or income sources as much as they want until it's balanced or even net positive.

    I'd say 10% would probably be a decent average. Though it may be as high as 20% in some cases.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    I think a key point being missed by the people arguing numbers games is that CG stated explicitly that their goal is to keep end-game neutral this round of updates. So even if the nerf is as low as 2%, it is a failure on their end that should be corrected, by their own admission.

    I believe it was stated "as close as possible", at which point if it was really only 2% (which we cant really prove), that would be pretty close.

    We can prove with math that each person has a different outcome, but no one has said a number as low as 2% yet. I was being generous, because the real average is likely much closer to 10%.

    Also, if 2% is as close as possible, then why would there be easy ways to close that 2% gap? That's not what "as close as possible" means, that's settling.

    Edit: 2% would be incredibly close though, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying there's no reason to stop there unless it is absolutely as close as they can get it. And it isn't, since they can just adjust prices or income sources as much as they want until it's balanced or even net positive.

    I'd say 10% would probably be a decent average. Though it may be as high as 20% in some cases.

    Or as some people have said, since gear farming can take all the energy, and all the shops have stuff like ability mats to purchase too, in some cases Bronzium's might make up as much as 50 to 60% of all SSC because they don't really get any shards elsewhere. Getting prestige tokens from Arena shop until you've maxed out all capital ship skills is a viable use of those tokens and that removes up to 15 shards as someone has said. Getting Zetas and Omegas practically eliminates all Ship Store farming for many players unless you reaaally want SSC. You really only have Galactic War and Cantina as reliable sources until you've gotten all the Zetas and Capital ship moves that you want.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    I think a key point being missed by the people arguing numbers games is that CG stated explicitly that their goal is to keep end-game neutral this round of updates. So even if the nerf is as low as 2%, it is a failure on their end that should be corrected, by their own admission.

    I believe it was stated "as close as possible", at which point if it was really only 2% (which we cant really prove), that would be pretty close.

    We can prove with math that each person has a different outcome, but no one has said a number as low as 2% yet. I was being generous, because the real average is likely much closer to 10%.

    Also, if 2% is as close as possible, then why would there be easy ways to close that 2% gap? That's not what "as close as possible" means, that's settling.

    Edit: 2% would be incredibly close though, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying there's no reason to stop there unless it is absolutely as close as they can get it. And it isn't, since they can just adjust prices or income sources as much as they want until it's balanced or even net positive.

    I'd say 10% would probably be a decent average. Though it may be as high as 20% in some cases.

    Or as some people have said, since gear farming can take all the energy, and all the shops have stuff like ability mats to purchase too, in some cases Bronzium's might make up as much as 50 to 60% of all SSC because they don't really get any shards elsewhere. Getting prestige tokens from Arena shop until you've maxed out all capital ship skills is a viable use of those tokens and that removes up to 15 shards as someone has said. Getting Zetas and Omegas practically eliminates all Ship Store farming for many players unless you reaaally want SSC. You really only have Galactic War and Cantina as reliable sources until you've gotten all the Zetas and Capital ship moves that you want.

    I specifically left out the ship store from my calculation because I assumed Zetas are bought there by most. And that came up to less than 10%.

    And prestige is likely not farmed a lot by end game players since you get a ton over the years naturally. You may farm it for a time to get a capital ship done faster but it really isn't needed.

    Yes some may buy credits or ship credits rather than shard currency but CG can't be expected to correct for any possible choice.

    And I think in this case you have to consider end game when calculating the nerf since the added speed of farms more than make up for the nerf already for early and mid game (eg you don't have the stores finished.)
  • Kyno wrote: »
    I think a key point being missed by the people arguing numbers games is that CG stated explicitly that their goal is to keep end-game neutral this round of updates. So even if the nerf is as low as 2%, it is a failure on their end that should be corrected, by their own admission.

    I believe it was stated "as close as possible", at which point if it was really only 2% (which we cant really prove), that would be pretty close.

    We can prove with math that each person has a different outcome, but no one has said a number as low as 2% yet. I was being generous, because the real average is likely much closer to 10%.

    Also, if 2% is as close as possible, then why would there be easy ways to close that 2% gap? That's not what "as close as possible" means, that's settling.

    Edit: 2% would be incredibly close though, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying there's no reason to stop there unless it is absolutely as close as they can get it. And it isn't, since they can just adjust prices or income sources as much as they want until it's balanced or even net positive.

    I'd say 10% would probably be a decent average. Though it may be as high as 20% in some cases.

    Or as some people have said, since gear farming can take all the energy, and all the shops have stuff like ability mats to purchase too, in some cases Bronzium's might make up as much as 50 to 60% of all SSC because they don't really get any shards elsewhere. Getting prestige tokens from Arena shop until you've maxed out all capital ship skills is a viable use of those tokens and that removes up to 15 shards as someone has said. Getting Zetas and Omegas practically eliminates all Ship Store farming for many players unless you reaaally want SSC. You really only have Galactic War and Cantina as reliable sources until you've gotten all the Zetas and Capital ship moves that you want.

    I specifically left out the ship store from my calculation because I assumed Zetas are bought there by most. And that came up to less than 10%.

    And prestige is likely not farmed a lot by end game players since you get a ton over the years naturally. You may farm it for a time to get a capital ship done faster but it really isn't needed.

    Yes some may buy credits or ship credits rather than shard currency but CG can't be expected to correct for any possible choice.

    And I think in this case you have to consider end game when calculating the nerf since the added speed of farms more than make up for the nerf already for early and mid game (eg you don't have the stores finished.)

    Well I'm just saying, for anyone that wants to argue the semantics of an "average", that there are people in mid-endgame with different farming strats, and there are people with no finished stores because they bought the Hyperdrive bundle and just floated to the top of their shard meta and stayed there. The "average" lost currency gets very muddled because in these rare scenarios, it may be a 0% loss for someone who never opens Bronziums, or it may be a 100% nerf from someone whos only SSC source is Bronziums. Middle ground between those is still bad, because it's highly likely for some people that 50% of their SSC comes from good Bronzium pulls.

    If they could get it to 2% as a general statement, I'd be very happy, but there's no reason to stop at 2%, nor is there any reason to believe that the math will ever get as low and clean as 2%. So all around, unless the whole world just falls into place during this update, it's a nerf regardless of the number involved, and should be corrected as soon as they are capable of doing so.
  • It is a nerd. I agree with you on that. And it does need addressed but some are acting like it is cutting their shard currency in half. That just isn't the case.

    I get shards from the following sources regularly on my main account.

    5-10 shards a day from cantina (depends on how many refreshes)

    15 from arena store a day

    15 from gw store (yes I do the ships but it converts roughly the same as 15 character shards)

    About 7 a day from gw drops

    And probably 10 a day on average from bronizums (it varies but let's say 8 of them are from full drops)

    So that's about 54 shards or so a day on average. The nerf will effectively take away 4 of those a day. That's an effective reduction in shard shop currency of about 7%. That still isn't good but it isn't the sky is falling disaster that will ruin.

    I'm going to nitpick here a bit. Because I feel like this isn't very accurate.

    1. Not everyone is done w/ every Cantina farm in the game to be using Cantina energy for Shard Farming.

    2. 15/Day from Arena is impossible as that would be 1200/Day Coins & 1100 is Max if you take 1st every single day of the year. Which also isn't relevant to the vast majority of the population.

    3. 7 from GW is possible but certainly not the "Average"

    4. ONLY 10/Day from Bronziums? I honestly don't think a day goes by were I don't get at least 1 of the 1* openings w/ several singles. I'd say the Bronzium averages over 10/day for sure & certainly over 10 a day is the average from Full Characters since I get a 25 a couple times a month & plenty of days with 2+ of the 1* openings.


    My own totals would probably be ...........
    0-Cantina
    15-GWar Store
    8-Squad
    4-Gwar Sim
    13+ Bronziums (11+ avg from Openings)

    So closer to 40/Day is what I'd call "normal" and being nerfed from 10-12 for 5-6 in value.
    Which is 15% income or so.
    No one wants 15% paycut..... ever.


    Agreed. This is MUCH closer to what my SSC shards are like. I am at a point where more than half the character shards I'm farming are Original Rate(less than a year old) so I gain literally nothing for over half my character farms and will lose anywhere from 10%-30% of my gear day to day. The only benefit for an account like mine specifically(3.78GP, all legendaries except JKL, TB farms, and no GLs,) is the double shards from cantina farms, of which I still need about ten characters.

    So that's cool, but I'm still losing a TON of gear, which matters infinite more for my farming timeline than shards do, and new accounts are going to run into the exact same issues. I can already farm shards for a marquee about twice as fast as gearing a team up to G13(I got Mando, Greef and Cara to 80/100 in the same time I got GAS to G13, and rex, fives and Echo to G12, STILL not relicd, and I won't be for a while.)

    That being said, I choose to slightly focus my energy on character shards more than gear, and I don't usually use refreshes(avg of 5/week on the high end,) instead buying gear in bulk, but the reason I do that is that it seems to be more efficient with my specific roster, so take what I said here with a grain of salt.

    Regardless, as far as gear goes, I ONLY lose with this update, and gear is already a much deeper bottleneck than shards, and that won't change because I can farm AR characters faster.

    Overall I REALLY love this change, but I'm am very disappointed that CG doesn't(at the moment) seem to be interested in making sure the change is either net neutral or net positive for gear, which frustrates me, being a mid-tier player. Don't take this as me saying this is a bad move, srsly, CG GOOD JOB WITH THIS NO CAP <3

    (But I really hope y'all can get the SSC conversion at least 100% net neutral.)
  • Kyno wrote: »
    I think a key point being missed by the people arguing numbers games is that CG stated explicitly that their goal is to keep end-game neutral this round of updates. So even if the nerf is as low as 2%, it is a failure on their end that should be corrected, by their own admission.

    I believe it was stated "as close as possible", at which point if it was really only 2% (which we cant really prove), that would be pretty close.

    We can prove with math that each person has a different outcome, but no one has said a number as low as 2% yet. I was being generous, because the real average is likely much closer to 10%.

    Also, if 2% is as close as possible, then why would there be easy ways to close that 2% gap? That's not what "as close as possible" means, that's settling.

    Edit: 2% would be incredibly close though, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying there's no reason to stop there unless it is absolutely as close as they can get it. And it isn't, since they can just adjust prices or income sources as much as they want until it's balanced or even net positive.

    I'd say 10% would probably be a decent average. Though it may be as high as 20% in some cases.

    Or as some people have said, since gear farming can take all the energy, and all the shops have stuff like ability mats to purchase too, in some cases Bronzium's might make up as much as 50 to 60% of all SSC because they don't really get any shards elsewhere. Getting prestige tokens from Arena shop until you've maxed out all capital ship skills is a viable use of those tokens and that removes up to 15 shards as someone has said. Getting Zetas and Omegas practically eliminates all Ship Store farming for many players unless you reaaally want SSC. You really only have Galactic War and Cantina as reliable sources until you've gotten all the Zetas and Capital ship moves that you want.

    I specifically left out the ship store from my calculation because I assumed Zetas are bought there by most. And that came up to less than 10%.

    And prestige is likely not farmed a lot by end game players since you get a ton over the years naturally. You may farm it for a time to get a capital ship done faster but it really isn't needed.

    Yes some may buy credits or ship credits rather than shard currency but CG can't be expected to correct for any possible choice.

    And I think in this case you have to consider end game when calculating the nerf since the added speed of farms more than make up for the nerf already for early and mid game (eg you don't have the stores finished.)

    Well I'm just saying, for anyone that wants to argue the semantics of an "average", that there are people in mid-endgame with different farming strats, and there are people with no finished stores because they bought the Hyperdrive bundle and just floated to the top of their shard meta and stayed there. The "average" lost currency gets very muddled because in these rare scenarios, it may be a 0% loss for someone who never opens Bronziums, or it may be a 100% nerf from someone whos only SSC source is Bronziums. Middle ground between those is still bad, because it's highly likely for some people that 50% of their SSC comes from good Bronzium pulls.

    If they could get it to 2% as a general statement, I'd be very happy, but there's no reason to stop at 2%, nor is there any reason to believe that the math will ever get as low and clean as 2%. So all around, unless the whole world just falls into place during this update, it's a nerf regardless of the number involved, and should be corrected as soon as they are capable of doing so.

    If you bought the hyperdrive bundle and just didn't bother finishing enough characters to use the stores for shard shop currency, that is a resource management issue and not one with the update.

    I don't think CG should be expected to consider these choices in the overall effect of the bronizum nerf.

    But if they only raise the price by 150% I'm good with that as it will help me as well. But I don't demand that to accept this within their stated intention.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    I think a key point being missed by the people arguing numbers games is that CG stated explicitly that their goal is to keep end-game neutral this round of updates. So even if the nerf is as low as 2%, it is a failure on their end that should be corrected, by their own admission.

    I believe it was stated "as close as possible", at which point if it was really only 2% (which we cant really prove), that would be pretty close.

    We can prove with math that each person has a different outcome, but no one has said a number as low as 2% yet. I was being generous, because the real average is likely much closer to 10%.

    Also, if 2% is as close as possible, then why would there be easy ways to close that 2% gap? That's not what "as close as possible" means, that's settling.

    Edit: 2% would be incredibly close though, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying there's no reason to stop there unless it is absolutely as close as they can get it. And it isn't, since they can just adjust prices or income sources as much as they want until it's balanced or even net positive.

    I'd say 10% would probably be a decent average. Though it may be as high as 20% in some cases.

    Or as some people have said, since gear farming can take all the energy, and all the shops have stuff like ability mats to purchase too, in some cases Bronzium's might make up as much as 50 to 60% of all SSC because they don't really get any shards elsewhere. Getting prestige tokens from Arena shop until you've maxed out all capital ship skills is a viable use of those tokens and that removes up to 15 shards as someone has said. Getting Zetas and Omegas practically eliminates all Ship Store farming for many players unless you reaaally want SSC. You really only have Galactic War and Cantina as reliable sources until you've gotten all the Zetas and Capital ship moves that you want.

    I specifically left out the ship store from my calculation because I assumed Zetas are bought there by most. And that came up to less than 10%.

    And prestige is likely not farmed a lot by end game players since you get a ton over the years naturally. You may farm it for a time to get a capital ship done faster but it really isn't needed.

    Yes some may buy credits or ship credits rather than shard currency but CG can't be expected to correct for any possible choice.

    And I think in this case you have to consider end game when calculating the nerf since the added speed of farms more than make up for the nerf already for early and mid game (eg you don't have the stores finished.)

    Well I'm just saying, for anyone that wants to argue the semantics of an "average", that there are people in mid-endgame with different farming strats, and there are people with no finished stores because they bought the Hyperdrive bundle and just floated to the top of their shard meta and stayed there. The "average" lost currency gets very muddled because in these rare scenarios, it may be a 0% loss for someone who never opens Bronziums, or it may be a 100% nerf from someone whos only SSC source is Bronziums. Middle ground between those is still bad, because it's highly likely for some people that 50% of their SSC comes from good Bronzium pulls.

    If they could get it to 2% as a general statement, I'd be very happy, but there's no reason to stop at 2%, nor is there any reason to believe that the math will ever get as low and clean as 2%. So all around, unless the whole world just falls into place during this update, it's a nerf regardless of the number involved, and should be corrected as soon as they are capable of doing so.

    If you bought the hyperdrive bundle and just didn't bother finishing enough characters to use the stores for shard shop currency, that is a resource management issue and not one with the update.

    I don't think CG should be expected to consider these choices in the overall effect of the bronizum nerf.

    But if they only raise the price by 150% I'm good with that as it will help me as well. But I don't demand that to accept this within their stated intention.

    I just think within their stated intention of "as close as possible to net neutral for endgame" or whatever the exact phrasing was, they should consider that this nerf could very reasonably be taking well over 10% of all SSC from endgame players. For a lot of people it could exceed 25%, and for a select group who only get SSC from Bronziums, it could be over 50% if they get lucky drops. Those numbers are dangerous when your goal is to be close to 0%, and just because people with only 4% lost can say "I only lost 4% so the price buff should be balanced at 196%" doesn't mean that should be how it is. It should be closer to the average because that's how you calculate "net gain"
  • Hornist wrote: »
    It is a nerd. I agree with you on that. And it does need addressed but some are acting like it is cutting their shard currency in half. That just isn't the case.

    I get shards from the following sources regularly on my main account.

    5-10 shards a day from cantina (depends on how many refreshes)

    15 from arena store a day

    15 from gw store (yes I do the ships but it converts roughly the same as 15 character shards)

    About 7 a day from gw drops

    And probably 10 a day on average from bronizums (it varies but let's say 8 of them are from full drops)

    So that's about 54 shards or so a day on average. The nerf will effectively take away 4 of those a day. That's an effective reduction in shard shop currency of about 7%. That still isn't good but it isn't the sky is falling disaster that will ruin.

    I'm going to nitpick here a bit. Because I feel like this isn't very accurate.

    1. Not everyone is done w/ every Cantina farm in the game to be using Cantina energy for Shard Farming.

    2. 15/Day from Arena is impossible as that would be 1200/Day Coins & 1100 is Max if you take 1st every single day of the year. Which also isn't relevant to the vast majority of the population.

    3. 7 from GW is possible but certainly not the "Average"

    4. ONLY 10/Day from Bronziums? I honestly don't think a day goes by were I don't get at least 1 of the 1* openings w/ several singles. I'd say the Bronzium averages over 10/day for sure & certainly over 10 a day is the average from Full Characters since I get a 25 a couple times a month & plenty of days with 2+ of the 1* openings.


    My own totals would probably be ...........
    0-Cantina
    15-GWar Store
    8-Squad
    4-Gwar Sim
    13+ Bronziums (11+ avg from Openings)

    So closer to 40/Day is what I'd call "normal" and being nerfed from 10-12 for 5-6 in value.
    Which is 15% income or so.
    No one wants 15% paycut..... ever.


    Agreed. This is MUCH closer to what my SSC shards are like. I am at a point where more than half the character shards I'm farming are Original Rate(less than a year old) so I gain literally nothing for over half my character farms and will lose anywhere from 10%-30% of my gear day to day. The only benefit for an account like mine specifically(3.78GP, all legendaries except JKL, TB farms, and no GLs,) is the double shards from cantina farms, of which I still need about ten characters.

    So that's cool, but I'm still losing a TON of gear, which matters infinite more for my farming timeline than shards do, and new accounts are going to run into the exact same issues. I can already farm shards for a marquee about twice as fast as gearing a team up to G13(I got Mando, Greef and Cara to 80/100 in the same time I got GAS to G13, and rex, fives and Echo to G12, STILL not relicd, and I won't be for a while.)

    That being said, I choose to slightly focus my energy on character shards more than gear, and I don't usually use refreshes(avg of 5/week on the high end,) instead buying gear in bulk, but the reason I do that is that it seems to be more efficient with my specific roster, so take what I said here with a grain of salt.

    Regardless, as far as gear goes, I ONLY lose with this update, and gear is already a much deeper bottleneck than shards, and that won't change because I can farm AR characters faster.

    Overall I REALLY love this change, but I'm am very disappointed that CG doesn't(at the moment) seem to be interested in making sure the change is either net neutral or net positive for gear, which frustrates me, being a mid-tier player. Don't take this as me saying this is a bad move, srsly, CG GOOD JOB WITH THIS NO CAP <3

    (But I really hope y'all can get the SSC conversion at least 100% net neutral.)

    You choosing to use crystals inefficiently on gear from the stores rather than energy refreshes is part of the reason that gear is a crunch.

    And what do you buy from the cantina store. Ship credits? You aren't counting any shards from there. That seems like a waste once you have a fleet. And if you have all legendary characters except jkl, then you likely don't need ship credits too badly. You get at least 5 a day from free energy tokens.

    And you may not get first in arena but you have to be pretty far down to only get 800 arena store tokens a day.

    That would put your calculation at about 13%. I came out with 7% (mostly due to energy refreshes on cantina and better arena ranking) so 10% is a good average.
Sign In or Register to comment.